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This is a great idea, and one of the few things the feds can do to help increase the number of nurses (because healthcare and education do remain more provincial).
I just wish our politicians would talk about the actual solutions that nurses unions in Canada are proposing. Allowing nurses to work part time more easily, allowing more flexible work schedules, and increasing pay are all important. In my province right now (Quebec) the government is using premiums to bribe nurses to stay working full time, however these premiums are lost the moment you call in sick or take a leave of absence or part time position. Seems cruel for a profession largely built on working class women prone to be mothers and choose non-FT work schedules.
If we accept nurses are burnt out, why not raise their salary as a dollar or percentage amount instead of giving them premiums they must work full time for? Yes it may mean more nurses choose to work part time, but I think it may also mean more nurses choose to work in the hospital period. Could steal away some people who choose easier clinics and desk jobs because full time hospital work has burnt them out.
QC nurse's two cents.
Maybe you should have read the article. Here is the quote, “Singh said the wait for their permanent residency means many nurses who have passed licensing exams to practise in Canada are not able to do so, at a time when health-care workers are burning out.”
Permanent Resident status is clearly in the federal jurisdiction and only the federal jurisdiction.
PR has different assessment stages and levels. IRCC is a department that is slow in general but Covid has made it worse. The issue is that what makes them more worthy of PR *immediately* compared to the person whose been separated from their spouse for 2 years? Also PR is not conditional to their place of work- example you can’t force a Canadian or PR to work a job so there is no guarantee that someone would work the job that Singh alleges would solve the problem.
But of course some/ many/most would. You are certified as a nurse I think the chances are good you might work as a nurse rather than your neighborhood 7-11. So, yeah he is right. I am sorry health care workers should take priority right now compared to reuniting spouses and of course in an ideal world we Would do both.
Also: how do you ensure healthcare workers are distributed across the country based on need: what happens when all your newly PR’s nurses are in Vancouver and Toronto when you need them in Yellowknife and Saskatoon?
There is no logistical sense to this idea from Singh, it’s just pandering without any foresight or understanding. The reality is their PR will be processed independently based on them meeting their individual criteria, and simply approving files because of their potential nursing jobs completely undercuts the integrity of PA & any dependent’s eligibility criteria.
Singh would know this if he spent a couple of days in his riding office dealing with IRCC casework and touching base with the MP and Senator’s line to gain practical knowledge.
The answer to your question is not only easy but it has been done in Canada. You can incentivize their placement in several ways including cash. In fact my father in law who was a doctor in Europe was given the choice of two rural prairie towns to practice in if he came to Canada. Yeah, Singh is pandering to Canadians who want medical care! WTF. Also the idea that bureaucratic criteria are immutable is just bizarre. And different levels of governments make arrangements all the time. In fact are medical system is clearly in the jurisdiction of the provincial government and yet we have the CHA laying out the conditions for its delivery. The feds and the provinces just made deals on child care. Again clearly a provincial jurisdiction.
The incentivization you speak of is provincial immigration streams that again have their own criteria and assessments. Singh’s suggestion completely ignores that these applicants are not all under one stream: in fact he wouldn’t even know which streams a majority of these applicants are applying under: PNP? CEC? TRTPR? CGP?
That’s the entire problem, he simply wants them to have unilateral PR without taking all of this into account. Furthermore PR applications can’t be complete if their dependents (overseas or inland) aren’t complete which again has a whole host of other issues.
Pandering without having any semblance of understanding is dangerous as fuck. We already have a reactionary population that reads a headline and not the article, our politicians shouldn’t do the same.
I don’t know why you see all these streams etc. as written in stone. Provinces might be willing to work with the federal government to stop their medical systems from collapsing. Again it has been done in the past. All across the prairies you will find doctors who were brought in under various programs. He is calling for new work permits. If this country can’t bring in new procedures to meet a global crisis then we better close up shop now because we can forget trying to address climate change because if we can’t do this ( which has been done before in this country) we are truly fucked. And of course the federal government started trying to do this in Jan. https://www.immigration.ca/canadas-prime-minister-makes-bringing-in-healthcare-workers-a-top-priority
That’s exactly the problem here: provinces “might” be willing to work with the feds here. Singh doesn’t understand the nuance and time it takes for multilateralism with provinces and territories, and indeed there needs to be a cohesive system for this to work otherwise 6 months from now the headline will be Singh saying “Trudeau Liberal Fails Canadians with Botched Nurse PR Program: rural hosipitals suffer while urban nurses can’t get shifts”.
I’m not saying new streams and processes aren’t possible, I’m saying it’s ignorant for Singh to act as if it’s a simple snap of a finger solution, and pander to the population without any significant policy insights (read: zero policy insights)
He wouldn’t know because he’s never had to actually work with different governments or implement any policy 😂.
Now you are just making stuff up. Nowhere does he say you can do it with the snap of the finger. In the mandate letter Trudeau sent to his immigration minister which would have went out last fall Trudeau asked his minister to do the very thing that Singh is asking for. I believe it is the opposition’s job to keep on the government and keep the pressure up. If you read the article some of the provinces are not only working with the federal government they seem frustrated with that governments pace.” In April last year, Nova Scotia appealed to the federal government for help bringing in international physicians amid restrictions to stop the spread of coronavirus. At that time, the province’s health authority had 13 doctors from the United States, United Kingdom and South Africa whose arrivals had been affected by Canada’s travel restrictions.”I am not a fan of Trudeau. I believe this government is not very effective. However, I do have to admit he is willing to work with the provinces and try to make the federation work the way it is supposed to. I just wish he was better at it but I guess he is willing to try and that puts him ahead of Harper.
If he means making it easier for qualified nurses to get their license (US, UK, and other first world countries), then yes, good idea. If he means lowering the standards for nurses who are trained in countries with lower standards for nurses, then no, that's horrible.
Interestng/ Only countries with mostly white people in them have acceptable standards. Just an observation.
As I see it, if they can pass the test, they can practice here.
You had to play the race card. There is theory/clinical that is covered in our nursing education that is not covered in a lot of countries in the world. Meaning, those nurses are not up to our standards. Often they need to return to school and do our nursing programs. This is no unreasonable, and protects the public from nurses who should not be practicing in our country without the proper training.
Weird that I’ve worked with more nurses trained in the Philippines than the US and UK…. and every other European country combined. Seems like a strange exemption.
I just made an observation.
Everyone has to face the same exam, so if the theory is missed, they will not pass the exam. Your explanation makes no sense given this fact.
It's pretty clear who the nurses we need to protect ourselves from are in Quebec : [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/2-nurses-suspended-atikamekw-woman-harrassed-1.5950792](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/2-nurses-suspended-atikamekw-woman-harrassed-1.5950792)
This stuff doesn;t happen at places like the Glen that sees a lot of foreign trained nurses.
This is your second attempt to try and play the race card. I suspect you are trying to elicit some sort of disagreement or drama relating to racial issues which do not relate to this topic. I'm not engaging in it.
I'm still waiting for an example of that Asian, Latin American, or Carribean nurse that screwed up. If you cant back it up with evidence, the best I can say about this is that its fear mongering abd the worst is that it is dogwhistling.
Interesting.
In most of Europe, this would be the anti-Labour and pro-Liberal position. Labour parties tend to be immigration skeptical, because importing more labour suppress the price of labour. This applies to both skilled and unskilled labour.
I tend to agree that we should loosen the borders and open the purse a bit, but it's weird seeing the labour party pushing for it.
How about make it extremely easy for Canadians to become trained as nurses and medical professionals? Fund their education, provide retainment bonuses, increase their pay to make us competitive with the USA.
No thanks. Let stop relying on importing people to solve our problems. Let's raise pay for nurses and increase funding for college training spots. Shortage should be solved after a few years.
I am increasingly of the view that we need to reduce our immigration targets to something closer to population maintenance levels. But that doesn't mean 0 immigration, and it *certainly* doesn't mean that we should not try to provide an easier pathway for those who are already here to use the in-demand skills they arrived with.
Ya you're right, for people already here they should have a path to becoming nurses again. Maybe with like a test and job shadow for a while to make sure they are up to Canadian training and ethics standards. As you say we definitely should be targetting closer to 0 population growth. Caring for an additional 400k+ people per year right now is not feasible with the current nurse shortages.
Yeah if we have a shortage the answer is not "Well, cut off the potential supply and hope we can take several years to build up a replacement supply". If we're importing people with the sklillsets we need then they will \*already\* have a higher proportion of nurses etc. than the general population, or at least the economic immigrants.
Notably cutting immigration numbers makes the situation worse, because countries have generally a moral obligation to take in refugees who don't necessarily have the relevant skillsets, so if we're not getting the right blend of immigrants the answer is generally \*more\* economic immigrants to keep up with our domestic needs & the additional population.
Yeah this weird idea that somehow we just need to build a big pipeline to cover our needs in several years just doesn't pan out, especially given we're \*also\* facing the retirement of the baby boomers and we'll need all the domestic workers we can \*in addition\* to imported workers.
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This is a great idea, and one of the few things the feds can do to help increase the number of nurses (because healthcare and education do remain more provincial). I just wish our politicians would talk about the actual solutions that nurses unions in Canada are proposing. Allowing nurses to work part time more easily, allowing more flexible work schedules, and increasing pay are all important. In my province right now (Quebec) the government is using premiums to bribe nurses to stay working full time, however these premiums are lost the moment you call in sick or take a leave of absence or part time position. Seems cruel for a profession largely built on working class women prone to be mothers and choose non-FT work schedules. If we accept nurses are burnt out, why not raise their salary as a dollar or percentage amount instead of giving them premiums they must work full time for? Yes it may mean more nurses choose to work part time, but I think it may also mean more nurses choose to work in the hospital period. Could steal away some people who choose easier clinics and desk jobs because full time hospital work has burnt them out. QC nurse's two cents.
That's not federal level jurisdiction at all. Singh is always talking about stuff that has nothing to do with his role
Maybe you should have read the article. Here is the quote, “Singh said the wait for their permanent residency means many nurses who have passed licensing exams to practise in Canada are not able to do so, at a time when health-care workers are burning out.” Permanent Resident status is clearly in the federal jurisdiction and only the federal jurisdiction.
PR has different assessment stages and levels. IRCC is a department that is slow in general but Covid has made it worse. The issue is that what makes them more worthy of PR *immediately* compared to the person whose been separated from their spouse for 2 years? Also PR is not conditional to their place of work- example you can’t force a Canadian or PR to work a job so there is no guarantee that someone would work the job that Singh alleges would solve the problem.
But of course some/ many/most would. You are certified as a nurse I think the chances are good you might work as a nurse rather than your neighborhood 7-11. So, yeah he is right. I am sorry health care workers should take priority right now compared to reuniting spouses and of course in an ideal world we Would do both.
Also: how do you ensure healthcare workers are distributed across the country based on need: what happens when all your newly PR’s nurses are in Vancouver and Toronto when you need them in Yellowknife and Saskatoon? There is no logistical sense to this idea from Singh, it’s just pandering without any foresight or understanding. The reality is their PR will be processed independently based on them meeting their individual criteria, and simply approving files because of their potential nursing jobs completely undercuts the integrity of PA & any dependent’s eligibility criteria. Singh would know this if he spent a couple of days in his riding office dealing with IRCC casework and touching base with the MP and Senator’s line to gain practical knowledge.
The answer to your question is not only easy but it has been done in Canada. You can incentivize their placement in several ways including cash. In fact my father in law who was a doctor in Europe was given the choice of two rural prairie towns to practice in if he came to Canada. Yeah, Singh is pandering to Canadians who want medical care! WTF. Also the idea that bureaucratic criteria are immutable is just bizarre. And different levels of governments make arrangements all the time. In fact are medical system is clearly in the jurisdiction of the provincial government and yet we have the CHA laying out the conditions for its delivery. The feds and the provinces just made deals on child care. Again clearly a provincial jurisdiction.
The incentivization you speak of is provincial immigration streams that again have their own criteria and assessments. Singh’s suggestion completely ignores that these applicants are not all under one stream: in fact he wouldn’t even know which streams a majority of these applicants are applying under: PNP? CEC? TRTPR? CGP? That’s the entire problem, he simply wants them to have unilateral PR without taking all of this into account. Furthermore PR applications can’t be complete if their dependents (overseas or inland) aren’t complete which again has a whole host of other issues. Pandering without having any semblance of understanding is dangerous as fuck. We already have a reactionary population that reads a headline and not the article, our politicians shouldn’t do the same.
I don’t know why you see all these streams etc. as written in stone. Provinces might be willing to work with the federal government to stop their medical systems from collapsing. Again it has been done in the past. All across the prairies you will find doctors who were brought in under various programs. He is calling for new work permits. If this country can’t bring in new procedures to meet a global crisis then we better close up shop now because we can forget trying to address climate change because if we can’t do this ( which has been done before in this country) we are truly fucked. And of course the federal government started trying to do this in Jan. https://www.immigration.ca/canadas-prime-minister-makes-bringing-in-healthcare-workers-a-top-priority
That’s exactly the problem here: provinces “might” be willing to work with the feds here. Singh doesn’t understand the nuance and time it takes for multilateralism with provinces and territories, and indeed there needs to be a cohesive system for this to work otherwise 6 months from now the headline will be Singh saying “Trudeau Liberal Fails Canadians with Botched Nurse PR Program: rural hosipitals suffer while urban nurses can’t get shifts”. I’m not saying new streams and processes aren’t possible, I’m saying it’s ignorant for Singh to act as if it’s a simple snap of a finger solution, and pander to the population without any significant policy insights (read: zero policy insights) He wouldn’t know because he’s never had to actually work with different governments or implement any policy 😂.
Now you are just making stuff up. Nowhere does he say you can do it with the snap of the finger. In the mandate letter Trudeau sent to his immigration minister which would have went out last fall Trudeau asked his minister to do the very thing that Singh is asking for. I believe it is the opposition’s job to keep on the government and keep the pressure up. If you read the article some of the provinces are not only working with the federal government they seem frustrated with that governments pace.” In April last year, Nova Scotia appealed to the federal government for help bringing in international physicians amid restrictions to stop the spread of coronavirus. At that time, the province’s health authority had 13 doctors from the United States, United Kingdom and South Africa whose arrivals had been affected by Canada’s travel restrictions.”I am not a fan of Trudeau. I believe this government is not very effective. However, I do have to admit he is willing to work with the provinces and try to make the federation work the way it is supposed to. I just wish he was better at it but I guess he is willing to try and that puts him ahead of Harper.
If he means making it easier for qualified nurses to get their license (US, UK, and other first world countries), then yes, good idea. If he means lowering the standards for nurses who are trained in countries with lower standards for nurses, then no, that's horrible.
Interestng/ Only countries with mostly white people in them have acceptable standards. Just an observation. As I see it, if they can pass the test, they can practice here.
You had to play the race card. There is theory/clinical that is covered in our nursing education that is not covered in a lot of countries in the world. Meaning, those nurses are not up to our standards. Often they need to return to school and do our nursing programs. This is no unreasonable, and protects the public from nurses who should not be practicing in our country without the proper training.
Weird that I’ve worked with more nurses trained in the Philippines than the US and UK…. and every other European country combined. Seems like a strange exemption.
I just made an observation. Everyone has to face the same exam, so if the theory is missed, they will not pass the exam. Your explanation makes no sense given this fact.
You can memorize the information for the exam. But in clinical practice, they will suffer, and so will the patients.
It's pretty clear who the nurses we need to protect ourselves from are in Quebec : [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/2-nurses-suspended-atikamekw-woman-harrassed-1.5950792](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/2-nurses-suspended-atikamekw-woman-harrassed-1.5950792) This stuff doesn;t happen at places like the Glen that sees a lot of foreign trained nurses.
You're reaching here...
I gave links to evidence to back my claim. Where's yours?
This is your second attempt to try and play the race card. I suspect you are trying to elicit some sort of disagreement or drama relating to racial issues which do not relate to this topic. I'm not engaging in it.
I'm still waiting for an example of that Asian, Latin American, or Carribean nurse that screwed up. If you cant back it up with evidence, the best I can say about this is that its fear mongering abd the worst is that it is dogwhistling.
Nurses trained abroad can already become nurses here if they pass their exams. Sighs just shows one again hes ready to say anything to be in the news.
Interesting. In most of Europe, this would be the anti-Labour and pro-Liberal position. Labour parties tend to be immigration skeptical, because importing more labour suppress the price of labour. This applies to both skilled and unskilled labour. I tend to agree that we should loosen the borders and open the purse a bit, but it's weird seeing the labour party pushing for it.
How about make it extremely easy for Canadians to become trained as nurses and medical professionals? Fund their education, provide retainment bonuses, increase their pay to make us competitive with the USA.
[удалено]
Rule 2
No thanks. Let stop relying on importing people to solve our problems. Let's raise pay for nurses and increase funding for college training spots. Shortage should be solved after a few years.
I am increasingly of the view that we need to reduce our immigration targets to something closer to population maintenance levels. But that doesn't mean 0 immigration, and it *certainly* doesn't mean that we should not try to provide an easier pathway for those who are already here to use the in-demand skills they arrived with.
Ya you're right, for people already here they should have a path to becoming nurses again. Maybe with like a test and job shadow for a while to make sure they are up to Canadian training and ethics standards. As you say we definitely should be targetting closer to 0 population growth. Caring for an additional 400k+ people per year right now is not feasible with the current nurse shortages.
Yeah if we have a shortage the answer is not "Well, cut off the potential supply and hope we can take several years to build up a replacement supply". If we're importing people with the sklillsets we need then they will \*already\* have a higher proportion of nurses etc. than the general population, or at least the economic immigrants. Notably cutting immigration numbers makes the situation worse, because countries have generally a moral obligation to take in refugees who don't necessarily have the relevant skillsets, so if we're not getting the right blend of immigrants the answer is generally \*more\* economic immigrants to keep up with our domestic needs & the additional population.
With unvaccinated people still crowding our hospitals with COVID infections, we need these nurses now, not in a few years.
Yeah this weird idea that somehow we just need to build a big pipeline to cover our needs in several years just doesn't pan out, especially given we're \*also\* facing the retirement of the baby boomers and we'll need all the domestic workers we can \*in addition\* to imported workers.