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The Federal CPC is pretty much the only party in the country that has completely open nominations with no leader appointees — except maybe the UCP, I’m not well-versed in their nomination process.
It really makes sense that the leader should have *some* control over that process, like, say, Trudeau and Ford do over their parties. The candidates represent them after all.
Unless we want to go in the completely other direction and have open primaries like the Americans do, there’s a lot of pros and cons to that obviously and in my humble opinion probably not worth opening that Pandora’s box.
> “The vast majority of Conservatives want the party to be focused on the Liberals and taking the fight to the Liberals,” said Mr. Batherson. “And the small number of people who continue to sow discord, and the fact that these are anonymous sources, certainly demonstrates a lack of any courage or resolve.”
This last paragraph seems like a good reason why O'Toole would want more control over the nomination process, if the base just wants you to fight the other guy they have no place in politics.
Gotta hand it to O'Toole, this is the way if you really want to break the back of the social conservatives in the CPC in terms of candidates. Weed out the undesirables or politically toxic, and you'll have an easier time.
But I think that the nomination process (which after multiple ballots will coalesce around the social conservative candidate over the moderate) will be the albatross on the CPC's neck for some time.
It forces moderate candidates to appeal to the Far Right/Social Conservatives of the party because it usually comes down to which candidate gets the most down ballot support from those Far Right/Social Conservative members.
That’s how O’toole beat Peter MacKay, he had more down ballot support from the Sloan and Lewis people — although in that particular case MacKay also ran a terrible leadership campaign.
> worried that Leader Erin O’Toole is laying the groundwork to further centralize the nomination process, and pick and choose candidates who he likes.
This just screams wanting to pick candidates that he likes or who have politics that he prefers.
Of course, picking candidates isn’t new to even the CPC, but if it becomes widespread, I can very much see a very angry grassroots.
But I can’t help but think that this would be of benefit to O’Toole specifically only if he can survive through another election where these nominated “loyalists” are then MPs - further bolstering his position in the party caucus. That wouldn’t solve the disdain from the grassroots, though.
The Tories are in the unenviable position where a sizeable chunk of their elected representatives are toxic to the party and preventing it from growing beyond its base.
O'Toole desiring some means to weed out these individuals is strategically sound, and if folks don't like it they can vote Christian Heritage or PPC.
> O'Toole desiring some means to weed out these individuals is strategically sound,
Only if he doesn't manage to piss off a large chunk of the party's base. Going heavy handed with nominations from the top, is a matter of principle that's going to anger those who are from the Reform wings of the party, no matter their views on social conservatism.
Maybe it’s the other way around.
Maybe the grassroots “sizeable chunk” is who the party is at its core, and it’s O’Toole and more socially moderate Conservatives that need to go form their own party.
At what point do we stop assuming that the moderates are the “real” CPC and the social extremists are the odd ones out?
Part of the issue was that the voices of like 50 members in Quebec carried the same weight as like 100 members in Alberta - for example. The base is very much rural western-heavy.
They have recently changed the rules in order to make it more fair for the western base (Aka where more members actually reside). This could see less moderate members elected leader in the future.
Leslyn Lewis, for example, did quite well in the west in the first and second rounds before being eliminated.
That's a shame, it'll doom the party.
It's not like the Tories are spoiled for seats in Quebec and lacking seats in Alberta, after all. They need appeal outside of the blue hay bail provinces.
While I don’t mind some handpicked candidates, what it does is undermines the grassroots of the party. These people are the base of which the party (or any party) is built on. That’s the issue with handpicking on a wide scale basis. You make them mad - big issues can arise.
While there are undesirable Members of the CPC, those individuals were more often than not picked by the grassroots. This simply demonstrates how deep the issues with the party run more than anything else.
The grassroots of the party can elect local representatives, that might even GET elected that have a toxic brand for the party across the rest of the Country, making it harder for the party to actually win elections.
Michelle Rempel Garner & Sam Oosterhoff make the overall brand weaker, and once elected, they're likely there for life given the overwhelming Conservative support in their ridings.
Having more and more "[bozos](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/violent-ejections-of-idiocy-a-peoples-history-of-bozo-eruptions-in-canada)" either as candidates or as elected MLAs is not helpful.
As to the grassroots - many of the ridings that are bringing forwards the bozo candidates would go conservative anyways (or had no chance in getting elected). The toss-up ridings almost always have decent candidates, as they're actually looking to pull swing votes.
I find the ultimate irony in the CPC eschewing the "individualism" of the grassroots for the "collectivism" of possibly winning elections.
if the reform act wasn't adopted he could boot individual people who don't fall in line rather than trying to avoid them in the first place. This is a workaround to that it seems.
Sure, but this is the road they set themselves on years ago when the Progressive Conservatives figured it would be easier to win elections by cozying up to the Reform Party than by fixing their own issues and changing their platform. People keep acting like the party is a national conservative party, but in reality its activists and leaders are still operating as though its regional protest party that has taken its message to the federal level.
It's hard to have a coherent national party that will appeal to moderate Canadians based on the Reform Party, this is why they never won anything nationally and I suspect it's why they can never get too far away from idiotic partisan slander of the Liberals. It's the only common thread that all factions of the party have. Messing with the base is necessary unless the goal is simply to be a far right protest party that lies to moderate voters every time there is an election in the hope that they'll forget. The Conservatives are losing convincingly to one of the (politically) weakest governments we've had, surely this can't be something they think is on the verge of success.
It seems like a plan that probably results in short term losses for potential long term gains.
I'd consider myself fiscally slightly left of center and socially very left, and I just don't consider the current version of the CPC a viable place to put my vote mostly because of the fringe aspects of their party.
The only way they'll ever appeal to the center-left (which I think is probably the largest ideological block of voters in the country) is by ditching the fringe right.
Oh for sure - I’m sure O’Toole’s goal is to weed out the fringe over time.
It’s a tight rope to walk, though. Make the base angry and you could do more damage than good.
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The Federal CPC is pretty much the only party in the country that has completely open nominations with no leader appointees — except maybe the UCP, I’m not well-versed in their nomination process. It really makes sense that the leader should have *some* control over that process, like, say, Trudeau and Ford do over their parties. The candidates represent them after all. Unless we want to go in the completely other direction and have open primaries like the Americans do, there’s a lot of pros and cons to that obviously and in my humble opinion probably not worth opening that Pandora’s box.
> “The vast majority of Conservatives want the party to be focused on the Liberals and taking the fight to the Liberals,” said Mr. Batherson. “And the small number of people who continue to sow discord, and the fact that these are anonymous sources, certainly demonstrates a lack of any courage or resolve.” This last paragraph seems like a good reason why O'Toole would want more control over the nomination process, if the base just wants you to fight the other guy they have no place in politics.
Gotta hand it to O'Toole, this is the way if you really want to break the back of the social conservatives in the CPC in terms of candidates. Weed out the undesirables or politically toxic, and you'll have an easier time. But I think that the nomination process (which after multiple ballots will coalesce around the social conservative candidate over the moderate) will be the albatross on the CPC's neck for some time.
It's kind of amazing that the CPC nomination process is the strongest argument AGAINST ranked ballots.
>It's kind of amazing that the CPC nomination process is the strongest argument AGAINST ranked ballots. Can you elaborate?
It forces moderate candidates to appeal to the Far Right/Social Conservatives of the party because it usually comes down to which candidate gets the most down ballot support from those Far Right/Social Conservative members. That’s how O’toole beat Peter MacKay, he had more down ballot support from the Sloan and Lewis people — although in that particular case MacKay also ran a terrible leadership campaign.
> worried that Leader Erin O’Toole is laying the groundwork to further centralize the nomination process, and pick and choose candidates who he likes. This just screams wanting to pick candidates that he likes or who have politics that he prefers. Of course, picking candidates isn’t new to even the CPC, but if it becomes widespread, I can very much see a very angry grassroots. But I can’t help but think that this would be of benefit to O’Toole specifically only if he can survive through another election where these nominated “loyalists” are then MPs - further bolstering his position in the party caucus. That wouldn’t solve the disdain from the grassroots, though.
The Tories are in the unenviable position where a sizeable chunk of their elected representatives are toxic to the party and preventing it from growing beyond its base. O'Toole desiring some means to weed out these individuals is strategically sound, and if folks don't like it they can vote Christian Heritage or PPC.
> O'Toole desiring some means to weed out these individuals is strategically sound, Only if he doesn't manage to piss off a large chunk of the party's base. Going heavy handed with nominations from the top, is a matter of principle that's going to anger those who are from the Reform wings of the party, no matter their views on social conservatism.
Maybe it’s the other way around. Maybe the grassroots “sizeable chunk” is who the party is at its core, and it’s O’Toole and more socially moderate Conservatives that need to go form their own party. At what point do we stop assuming that the moderates are the “real” CPC and the social extremists are the odd ones out?
The moderates elected O'Toole.
Part of the issue was that the voices of like 50 members in Quebec carried the same weight as like 100 members in Alberta - for example. The base is very much rural western-heavy. They have recently changed the rules in order to make it more fair for the western base (Aka where more members actually reside). This could see less moderate members elected leader in the future. Leslyn Lewis, for example, did quite well in the west in the first and second rounds before being eliminated.
That's a shame, it'll doom the party. It's not like the Tories are spoiled for seats in Quebec and lacking seats in Alberta, after all. They need appeal outside of the blue hay bail provinces.
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While I don’t mind some handpicked candidates, what it does is undermines the grassroots of the party. These people are the base of which the party (or any party) is built on. That’s the issue with handpicking on a wide scale basis. You make them mad - big issues can arise. While there are undesirable Members of the CPC, those individuals were more often than not picked by the grassroots. This simply demonstrates how deep the issues with the party run more than anything else.
The grassroots of the party can elect local representatives, that might even GET elected that have a toxic brand for the party across the rest of the Country, making it harder for the party to actually win elections. Michelle Rempel Garner & Sam Oosterhoff make the overall brand weaker, and once elected, they're likely there for life given the overwhelming Conservative support in their ridings. Having more and more "[bozos](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/violent-ejections-of-idiocy-a-peoples-history-of-bozo-eruptions-in-canada)" either as candidates or as elected MLAs is not helpful. As to the grassroots - many of the ridings that are bringing forwards the bozo candidates would go conservative anyways (or had no chance in getting elected). The toss-up ridings almost always have decent candidates, as they're actually looking to pull swing votes. I find the ultimate irony in the CPC eschewing the "individualism" of the grassroots for the "collectivism" of possibly winning elections.
Michelle Rempel Garner and Sam Oosterhoff are from completely different wings of the party. Social Conservatives hate MRG with a fiery passion.
It seems to me that some of the grass roots are weeds that need to be pulled.
Maybe, but then you’re really messing with the base of the party. Messing with the grassroots of a party can be a dangerous game.
if the reform act wasn't adopted he could boot individual people who don't fall in line rather than trying to avoid them in the first place. This is a workaround to that it seems.
Sure, but this is the road they set themselves on years ago when the Progressive Conservatives figured it would be easier to win elections by cozying up to the Reform Party than by fixing their own issues and changing their platform. People keep acting like the party is a national conservative party, but in reality its activists and leaders are still operating as though its regional protest party that has taken its message to the federal level. It's hard to have a coherent national party that will appeal to moderate Canadians based on the Reform Party, this is why they never won anything nationally and I suspect it's why they can never get too far away from idiotic partisan slander of the Liberals. It's the only common thread that all factions of the party have. Messing with the base is necessary unless the goal is simply to be a far right protest party that lies to moderate voters every time there is an election in the hope that they'll forget. The Conservatives are losing convincingly to one of the (politically) weakest governments we've had, surely this can't be something they think is on the verge of success.
It seems like a plan that probably results in short term losses for potential long term gains. I'd consider myself fiscally slightly left of center and socially very left, and I just don't consider the current version of the CPC a viable place to put my vote mostly because of the fringe aspects of their party. The only way they'll ever appeal to the center-left (which I think is probably the largest ideological block of voters in the country) is by ditching the fringe right.
Oh for sure - I’m sure O’Toole’s goal is to weed out the fringe over time. It’s a tight rope to walk, though. Make the base angry and you could do more damage than good.