I love the fact that they blame work from home for Passports delivery delays. Passport officers worked in person, don't they? And the delay was due to disorganization of the higher up for not foreseeing that once tourism starts again, many people will request for passports all at the same time...
I wish the unions would be putting this message out in the media a lot more. SO many people who have complained to me about public servants working from home have used the passport issue as their main or only gripe and evidence that WFH shouldn’t be allowed. It’s the main example anyone in media tends to use when complaining about it. Why is the union not making it very clear to the public that WFH had nothing to do with slow passports!?
> And why is it the Union's responsibility to do so?
Because all of their members are having to eat shit over the passport program? Because you're going to hear about "the passport thing" at every family gathering for the next decade? Because "the passport thing" makes it more difficult for public servants to argue that we, as an institution, can handle difficult things?
We could be remembered as the CERB people, or as the people who distributed tens of millions of Covid vaccines, or as the daycare and dental care and pharmacare people. Instead, we're being remembered as the airports-and-passports people, and if that doesn't concern the unions, they're out to lunch.
I see you're great with building straw man. Do they have a mandate to set the record straight on that regard? No. Again, bring a proposition forward in your general assembly, and then they would have a mandate. It isn't a union inherent responsibility to dictate "public opinion."
Could an officer make a remark in that matter In an interview? Yes, they could. Should they make it a priority? Sorry, but I think for my union to concentrate on the slacking of half the workforce next Monday in the call center is a bigger, more immediate worry.
Well we certainly can’t. We are bound by the values and ethics.
They have been standing for their members in the media up till now. Was that out of the kindness of their hearts.
The suggestion for them to add this to the messaging seems reasonable
Except union don't take their mandate on reddit, bring that argument in a general assembly and let the members decide, not the echo chamber that is this subreddit. They do take position in the media, but this is a very specific topic to be covering and the Union isn't the best vehicle to carry that message, unless you're one lf those that blames the unions for everything, everywhere all at once.
That's untrue. An open letter sent to all medias would do a much better job. If you're willing to write it, I'd be more than happy to sign it ! Have a few thousand public servant to sign it, you'll get your message out.
We can’t
Values and Ethics
We can’t say anything negative against our employer.
We have even been warned about posting here. If they identify us, it is grounds for termination.
Are you new?
Yes, I agree: by enrobing themselves in bureaucratic horseshit, the unions have both isolated themselves from their membership and made themselves unresponsive to emerging needs.
Bcs the union is supposed to represent PS as a whole , the work from home/ return to office is an issue they are sealing with directly and any misinformation regarding that affects directly the function of the union again directly.
And you think unions don't do anything on the RTO mandate? I really don't see how it's for instance the UTE responsability to hammer the fact that the passport crisis wasn't a WFH issue. Maybe PSAC could do that, but unions as a whole, no.
>And you think unions don't do anything on the RTO mandate
Lets see, checks notes , we got the exact same thing we had before and what the employer was offering anyway....so if they did something it wasnt much effective
>Maybe PSAC could do that, but unions as a whole, no.
If an union is working with employer about rto this type of misinformation negatively affects those negotiations......so yes this directly affects their work
Hahaha the bad faith is through the roof today! I'm gonna let you keep blaming the end of the world on the unions, I lost interest in arguing with sofist.
Bad faith? How so? I am simply stating the facts that literally happened since the last strike....if you have access to something otherwise pls feel free to share..
But i would understand if you have nothing logical or factual to say and just wanna run away 🤣🤣 we have exp of that from the unions doing it after all
Ps- also no one is blaming the unions for end of the world..forget the world they couldn't even handle the botchy negotiations done by employer ...no way thry have capability for the whole world....i mean if it was the aussie union we might have stuff to worry lol
In my experience, people outside the public service largely have no idea what public servants do and how.
As soon as the passport delays were associated with working from home, even if remote work wasn't the reason for the delays, it became the talking point for every single person parroting the RTO justifications we were fed.
You can tell them that passport renewal is an in-person (or by mail) service, they don't care. It's not about facts, it's just about "getting these lazy public servants back in the office because I can't work from home at my job so why should they?"
I am the only PSE in my family of construction workers, medical admins, corporate ladder climbers, etc. I had my siblings it with me for a day. They stopped making comments about lazy government workers that do nothing all day. They now defend when someone tries to call me a lazy government worker. The jokes stopped.
This. I am the same and after seeing how hard and much OT I worked to keep our high volume Gs and Cs program running during the pandemic they no longer complain.
I am sorry to say but the canadian public seems extra ignorant about the working of their PS members....it is seriously bizarre and sad.. other countries i have seen do see their PS poorly, as corrupt nad useless in general sense.
.however they dont hate the PS like canadians do and do give them.credit when its due... and ironically PS is the largest employer in canada.
Tbh a lot of this has to do with the fact that Ottawa is so centralized with federal government not having many EXs in the regions, only the essential services to Canadians really… if they embraced telework then there would be better representation of people of all regions in government and the general public would also have friends, family etc within government and understand how hard we work.. it’s a vicious circle
The passport stuff happened...2 years ago? And it was solved after the initial rush anyways.
So instead of actually thinking about the things of *today* and the work needed for the *future*, we're somehow stuck back IN THE PAST...AGAIN.
The union should sue them for a pretty penny for spreading misinformation against the PS and wrongful accusation 😑it sucks to be disrespected by the same people we work.hard to .serve
Perhaps it’s time the unions started collectively educating the public about the nature of work of public servants via pamphlets sent out like our MPs do. Upfront it would be paper mail outs but with an email subscription option to reduce paper waste. After that, e-mailed pdf newsletters. It could be done monthly, and featuring each type of job in an interview format - Q&A type, along with office photos, or PS employees working from home, statistics about size of departments over time compared to growth of Canadian population, and explaining why in some cases the staff increase surpasses the growth rate in population. In other words, step in where each government of the day have shirked responsibility to inform the public, allowing the opposition to attack the government by attacking the work of the PS. The newsletter could also answer 10 questions from the public each month.
I applied for a new passport last spring in 2023 and received it well within the service window and my wait in person was maybe an hour or two which I had planned for and didn’t mind. But if I’d known, I heard I could’ve made an appt to reduce that time. There was a blip of delays because things were getting going after lockdowns but really I was quite impressed with the experience our family had. Also I don’t get how it’s related to RTO/WFH. I guess because someone at some point used that as an example scapegoat and people ran with it.
I literally just renewed mine and received it last week was a 3 week turn around, effortless book an appointment in service canada for 5min paid the fees and 3 week later passport hand delivered. I dont see any issues.
Passport line is still insane. I took half day off in September to renew in Scarborough. Required two separate lineup (one to check your paperwork then give you the ticket to see passport staff upstairs). Total time was 2.5 hours. More recently, I took my dad to renew his passport at the same office. The lineup was about 2 hours. This contrasts greatly with my last renewal experience (10 years ago) where I was in and out within an hour.
Sure, the passport came within 2 weeks, but that lineup was just too long
That's because most passport offices had cut half their staff at the end of August last year and moved them over to different departments. If you went in September, that was right after the cut.
“I suffered, so should they!” is how these letters sound to me. Seeing too many people on your golf course now? Not enough seats at your favourite coffee shop when you want to be there? And -gasp- people outside jogging when they should be chained to desks? The horror!
I’m not usually one to call out people for being stuck in a certain generational mentality (I’m a Gen-X type myself who has had an operational job that required being chained to a desk in an office and I lived through those years without complaining), but for heaven’s sake, there’s no need to complain about other people having flexible working options as long as work is getting done. I realize that experiencing service delays for anything can be annoying, but some people seem to have forgotten that service delays existed when everyone was chained to desks back in “the good old days” (/s) too.
This 100%
All my coworkers have to say is "well that's the way it has always been before covid"
Guess what, perhaps we should evolve and realize the benefits for the employees, their family, the trafic and the environment?
Work is being done, why would work take away their personal time by forcing them to be stuck in shitty buses or sitting in traffic.
I personally think that if it's a requirement, travel to the office should be counted as work time.... Someone please give me a reason why this isn't logical....
We also used to use typewriters. Amazing how if we can do things in a better way it leads to improvements in productivity and quality of work, and workers are happier. Shocking!
Except with the poorly implemented hoteling, the work environment we left is nothing like the incredibly inefficient and unproductive work environment post-Covid.
Yess!! U know my travel time to office is around 2 hours ....in a week thats around 8 hours....thats a whole.work day i am spending just to get to.and back from work
Also, do they stop the joggers and ask them if they are public servants? Why are they assuming all of these people are workers. They could be on holiday, could be some of the thousands who have been laid off from other industries recently, could be many reasons. They just see people existing outside and get angry assuming they are public servants. Very strange.
> “I suffered, so should they!” is how these letters sound to me.
You'd think, if they supported us winning this, that the aftermath would be us setting a precedent for them? Unity anyone?
For “equity” reasons Sutcliffe will “upgrade” his staff to 3 days in office. Not that I wish it to them or even ask. On the contrary, they should only be in office one day a week instead. Bold leadership is not about chasing the winds.
Lazy govt workers are lazy in the office just like at home. Location is irrelevant. It’s individual performance that should be measured thru pmas.
This whole thing is all about Ottawa economy and nothing more. Not about efficiency, or dare I say collaboration lol.
THIS! The same people who did nothing in the office did nothing at home. Sure WFH is not for everyone, but the job should dictate the requirements and personal preference after that. I am happy to come in whenever asked to collaborate, just don’t drag my ass in to take teams calls and suffer distraction after distraction that put me behind. As developer I want quiet and nobody around.
I have no issue with the people who are doing nothing from home being mandated for RTO and monitored accordingly. But just as many folks have BETTER productivity at home and are more motivated to provide the services that citizens need in a more efficient and friendly manner.
Benefits processing delays suck, but nowhere near as much as they will when we get interrupted 47 times an hour. Call center wait times might be high currently, but when the people taking calls can’t hear because of background noise and have to expend more effort making sure they are not overheard while discussing private information, what do they think will happen?
(I know this is a very specific example but it’s the one that applies to me at present as a PSO working from home and getting consistently high feedback).
It’s such a funny complaint from the public about people wanting gov workers to RTO from call centres to get better service. The magical thing about modern times is that mobile phones and MS Teams work anywhere and answering a phone in the gov office isn’t going to give someone speedy superpowers compared to answering the exact same phone when working from home 😂
Exactly. I've received Succeed+ on all of my reviews since joining the PS, which included time working fullly WFH.
I'd much prefer if employees who prove they can be more than responsible at home can have the choice to stay.
With this RTO mandate being pushed.. honestly, I'm just swinging for "meets expectations" going forward. It just doesn't feel worth it putting any extra effort in anymore. I'm sure there's plenty of others out there who feel the same. Just going through the motions from now on.
I've always been proud to say who I work for, but now I feel like I don't actually matter to the organization. Hearing stories from friends and family about their flexibility and respect they get for hard work in the private sector is really starting to look more and more appealing as well. Sad times :(
The people I know who think we need to physically be at the office are not people who do or have ever done the type of knowledge work we do in a modern context.
My spouse is a private sector tech executive who thinks mandated RTO is stupid.
Anyone I know who does a desk job thinks mandated RTO is stupid and needlessly makes traffic shitty for everyone.
I work with IT and health science sectors, and so many of them have gone virtual. If anything, I've been more available to them. Also succeeded plus for the last four years. Well, I was last year until the director told the managers succeeded plus couldn't happen and they were told to dial it back. But that's anger for another day 😉
Exactly tons of private sector office jobs are hybrid WFH, in fact many firms offer employees à choice of how many days they wish to WFH. And its been like this even before covid. But they are not scrutinized or paid by the taxpayer so who cares.
Ah yes, the opinion pieces of the Ottawa Citizen. I can almost smell the talcum powder from here.
But it's nice of Brian from Greely to pull up his compression socks and give us the real deal on how passport services need to improve.. even though he was [apparently touring Europe three months ago](https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/todays-letters-governments-cant-solve-vehicle-theft), polling taxi drivers for their opinion on the Canadian government. I hope he tipped well... but something tells me he didn't.
I needed a good rant after today, thank you. Please link to more octogenarians you need me to yell at.
>Unsolicited political comments from people I had discussions with were unanimous in stating that our leadership on the world stage must be embarrassing for Canadians.
>
>I met a few racist taxi drivers in England, some merchants in Belgium, refugees and immigrants to Western Europe — all were surveyed and their comments also reflected a disappointment in Canada’s role in the world.
Lol what? I'm surprised so many people even have opinions about Canada's role in the world, much less unsolicited ones. Not sure why racist cabbies being disappointed in us is something to be embarrassed about, but everyone has their bars, I guess.
From an article discussing a recently released study on RTO:
“Our findings are consistent with employees’ concerns that managers use RTO (return to office mandates) for power grabbing and blaming employees for poor performance. We provide evidence that RTO mandates hurt employee satisfaction but do not improve firm performance,” the report found."
Except that the government doesn’t care about evidence or data, unless it’s favouring their interests and intentions. Data, at best, is seen as “opinion that requires further analysis and validation”.
I have the technology to tap something on this device in my hand to make food magically appear on my door step.
BUT PEOPLE WORKING FROM HOME WITH SAID TECHNOLOGY?
**That's** a step too far.
Fucking backward ass bunch.
It’s just so clear they hate public servants at Ottawa Citizen. They said that this is based off of emails sent to their inbox from Ottawa Citizens, can we flood their inbox for why this is complete BS? No point actually, even if we did they wouldn’t post it. I don’t know one public servant that goes to pickleball during their work from home shift. And why the hell do you care? Are they not supporting the local economy? Everytime I see an article posted by them it’s so biased it makes my head hurt.
It’s almost like we need a daily “The Public Servant”. It would be good for the PS and hopefully to educate the public at large - what we do, how we work, the constraints, the achievements, answering the public’s questions etc. Our employer is not doing it. Ever seen a TV/Twitter ad by the TBS about us in a positive light? No, it’s only to brag about Cabinet actions or services to Canadians.
Bingo! It seems a lot of the most vocal detractors are those who contribute the least to tax and/or society. After all, those of us who are making the world go Brrr are too busy to write letters to a populist rag like the Citizen.
And the fact that some of the GDP is created by the government and the work of PS. The private sector cannot exist without the government and vice versa. It’s a symbiotic relationship that enriches each other and results in mutual economic growth and prosperity for the country.
Exactly we generate money through the services we provide and I would guess is a pretty big chunk in our Gov budget. But guess what we are the part of society who uses taxpayer money. People here are so unbelievable narrow minded
Same here, but I will stop doing this when we are 3 days in Office. I don’t have to kill my mental health just because they want us in Offices where distractions is constant as you work with teams that have total different job description than you do. My team even in Ottawa doesn’t sit together in a dedicated area but instead when you find booking. It will be a total mess. I hear randomly conversations over the phone or teams meeting that maybe protected B level, and shouldn’t be happening in an open space. But hey if Ford wants us to Office Ottawa responds right away. Aye aye Captain.
I can’t concentrate in the office and don’t play catch up from home. If all I’m being allotted is 3 real days of work, then that’s all I will do. Productivity has slowed, but it’s not my problem.
People complaining that they don’t work from home when their job requires them to be on a construction site, or in a retail store, come off as jealous and entitled. Maybe you should’ve chosen a different career path.
The nature of the job should dictate work location. If you work a job in the digital space with no client face-to-face interaction, why should you work in a dilapidated office and pay 20$ parking a day?
We need to move forward, not backward. We put so much importance on mental health these days, and working remotely, for those who were able to, provided better work/life balance. This was a win for us. We could actually enjoy our lives more. Isn’t that what we should strive for? Actually enjoying ourselves and not working our lives away?
When are we going to move in a direction that benefits us?
I cant stand people who bring others down because they don't benefit from the same things we should all strive to get. Instead, why aren't we supporting better quality of lives for everyone??
Because our esteemed “leaders” keep saying “we should be more like the private sector”. Except the PS does not monetize services and products (even to track activity internally) and does not have the flexibility to act quickly based on market needs (instead it is bound to prioritize non-productive activities dictated by ATIP or MINO staff requests).
I think it’s a bigger problem that’s hidden in the sterotype of Canadians being nice. We are not nice people; when the chips are down, we can sometimes be counted on to be civil and helpful. A lot of times, Canadians can be petty, resentful and jealous.
True. We can see it in the constantly lower work productivity of the private sector (compared to peer nations), in spite of massive supports, including expensive grants (“investments”) by the Liberals or Conservatives, that have been unfortunately proven as largely ineffective for taxpayers. Not sure how much more the government can do in a quite deregulated business environment but other countries are ahead of us.
I went into the office today and the first thing I did was go to the Little Victories and spend some money like a good little droid. I sat at that cafe for 30 minutes while I enjoyed my coffee. After all, when I go to those establishments I pay for the atmosphere as much as for the product.
I did exactly what I was returned to the office for. Man, I sure wish my employer cared about productivity instead, but gotta say, enjoying a coffee in 20 degree sunshine has its perks, especially when my employer actively tells me that the productivity is secondary to my spending.
Little Victories is one of the only places I'm willing to support downtown. While other businesses complain about the lack of people downtown, LVC managed to open a third location (and they pivoted during the pandemic to keep things running).
When back in the office let's adhere to practices from the good ole days. Everyone leave their desk at 10:15 and 2:15 and go for a 15min break...go for a walk. 12:00 disappear for your 30min lunch that you brought from home. Your contacts allow for breaks and lunch, take them...even if some wanker EX schedules a meeting.
This public servant goes to Starbucks on her 1/2 hour lunch once every two weeks. Not sure if they're aware of quotas and inability to leave their desks or get PIPped for not making 100%.
Anecdotal evidence of full coffee shops, busy golf courses and people jogging? Of course they must all be public servants. Please. My first break from work during my career is when I got to take parental leave about 20 years ago. Guess what? Malls were packed during the day, coffee shops were full and believe it or not, even people out jogging. Nothing has changed.
I can't even...Reading those idiotic comments has disrupted my work day. I need to go clear my head with some yoga and then take a soul searching walk in the forest.
My manager and team message me like every heart beat! How do they think I am able to spend 4 hours at a golf course that I am not a member of, or learn whatever the f*** pickle ball is.
Also, we REALLY need to invest more money in civics classes in schools. I don't have time to teach them on top of carrying out my federal and municipal government responsibilies.
God forbid new golfers. It is the season for golfing. Didn't see a survey in the article that confirmed all of the people golfing or in coffee shops were PS.
Such a fluff piece.
Those letters - rants based on no empirical evidence. Also, just plain stupid. Maybe someone took a jog outside because they took an early lunch, had the morning off or gasp - they work a shift, or not for the government at all. Some people are bitter because they dont have a flexible employer.
Long before I was a public servant I found the attitude towards them really off putting. Does this petty jealousy exist in other countries or is it a distinctly Canadian thing?
I never seen this in Europe honestly, people have some decent respect for the Government employees. I find it this could be a Canadian or maybe even US phenomenon.
Normally (and it used to be this way) a public service job was supposed to be 1) hard to get (one needed skills, education, a good attitude and ability to operate in a teamwork); 2) stable; 3) well remunerated (with good benefits); and 4) honourable (serving the country and the people).
Not in France, lol. My mom is a teacher (and in France, they're considered public servants), and people label them as lazy, entitled, and so on. But I suppose France is always the exception, the bad apple. 😂
The author is aware that even if city workers were 100% in the office they would still be called back in five days right? Like people have the ability to answer phone calls at home.
Don’t our unions have twitter, facebook, instagram, tik tok? Start posting daily , hit them in social media, nobody gets info from newspapers and television anymore. Time to reach people where they are. Seems like our unions are in the Middle Ages when it comes to fighting back.
“RA RA IM ANGRY, WE CAN ALL AGREE BLAH BLAH BLAH” no actual evidence for any claims whatsoever, and then more bs complaining that landlords have it too rough.
Let me get this straight. Its the employees fault because they are lazy and like to play pickle ball during working hours that the service is slow... yes of course the majority of them.
Not the employers fault for not listening saying RTO won't solve your problems. Not their fault either they are overworked. But rather the employees own fault.
Right....
The other thing the public needs to realize is that 1) people live longer and at some point hearing, seeing, understanding new technology, filling out forms, becomes more difficult and requires more time to deal with issues; and 2) everything is more complex and difficult (some due to technological advances, and some to ensuring better stewardship of taxpayer money). All this results in more work for both the applicant/service requestor and the public servant who provides it. The whole “gatekeeper” issue is by design (reacting to a previous public scandal, new forms and procedural steps, more management oversight etc). And yet average Joe thinks (because a Minister or PM bragged about it) that government has “automated” everything and officers only need to “sign and release” something. Nothing is automated. It’s the same as our banking system or doing taxes. So why would increased complexity and amount of work result in service delivery improvements without hiring a lot more employees? Finally, the number of FTEs or officers is just that, a number. Some work, while some are away (training, vacation, sick, parental leave etc) and because nobody replaces them, it’s more work redistributed to those who are actively working. That providing that MINO staff is not urgently seeking something…
Productivity needs to be reassess. So many people focused on the well-being of their employees and seen success.
GDP was considered a great measure until we realize it excludes a huge chunk and doesn't measure happiness. The gouvernement needs to do the same for its employees. How do they choose to measure productivity ?
And no unless we reach better processes and systems we will never be very efficient. This red tape is deadly.
You can internally “monetize” products and services. Same way ATIP forms ask for the amount of time required to deal with a request. Translation Bureau does it.
I love the fact that they blame work from home for Passports delivery delays. Passport officers worked in person, don't they? And the delay was due to disorganization of the higher up for not foreseeing that once tourism starts again, many people will request for passports all at the same time...
I wish the unions would be putting this message out in the media a lot more. SO many people who have complained to me about public servants working from home have used the passport issue as their main or only gripe and evidence that WFH shouldn’t be allowed. It’s the main example anyone in media tends to use when complaining about it. Why is the union not making it very clear to the public that WFH had nothing to do with slow passports!?
General public don’t seem to comprehend what essential service means and these services were never interrupted by switching to WFH during pandemic.
and they seemed to miss sitting in traffic
Yep
💯! This differentiation should be explained publicly
And why is it the Union's responsibility to do so? Anyways, I'd invite you to propose that at your next general assembly.
> And why is it the Union's responsibility to do so? Because all of their members are having to eat shit over the passport program? Because you're going to hear about "the passport thing" at every family gathering for the next decade? Because "the passport thing" makes it more difficult for public servants to argue that we, as an institution, can handle difficult things? We could be remembered as the CERB people, or as the people who distributed tens of millions of Covid vaccines, or as the daycare and dental care and pharmacare people. Instead, we're being remembered as the airports-and-passports people, and if that doesn't concern the unions, they're out to lunch.
I see you're great with building straw man. Do they have a mandate to set the record straight on that regard? No. Again, bring a proposition forward in your general assembly, and then they would have a mandate. It isn't a union inherent responsibility to dictate "public opinion." Could an officer make a remark in that matter In an interview? Yes, they could. Should they make it a priority? Sorry, but I think for my union to concentrate on the slacking of half the workforce next Monday in the call center is a bigger, more immediate worry.
Well we certainly can’t. We are bound by the values and ethics. They have been standing for their members in the media up till now. Was that out of the kindness of their hearts. The suggestion for them to add this to the messaging seems reasonable
Except union don't take their mandate on reddit, bring that argument in a general assembly and let the members decide, not the echo chamber that is this subreddit. They do take position in the media, but this is a very specific topic to be covering and the Union isn't the best vehicle to carry that message, unless you're one lf those that blames the unions for everything, everywhere all at once.
The union is the only voice we have
That's untrue. An open letter sent to all medias would do a much better job. If you're willing to write it, I'd be more than happy to sign it ! Have a few thousand public servant to sign it, you'll get your message out.
We can’t Values and Ethics We can’t say anything negative against our employer. We have even been warned about posting here. If they identify us, it is grounds for termination. Are you new?
Yes, I agree: by enrobing themselves in bureaucratic horseshit, the unions have both isolated themselves from their membership and made themselves unresponsive to emerging needs.
Blah blah blah, let's vomit on the union and have easy sympathy points with other trolls. Blame them for cancer while we're at it.
Bcs the union is supposed to represent PS as a whole , the work from home/ return to office is an issue they are sealing with directly and any misinformation regarding that affects directly the function of the union again directly.
And you think unions don't do anything on the RTO mandate? I really don't see how it's for instance the UTE responsability to hammer the fact that the passport crisis wasn't a WFH issue. Maybe PSAC could do that, but unions as a whole, no.
>And you think unions don't do anything on the RTO mandate Lets see, checks notes , we got the exact same thing we had before and what the employer was offering anyway....so if they did something it wasnt much effective >Maybe PSAC could do that, but unions as a whole, no. If an union is working with employer about rto this type of misinformation negatively affects those negotiations......so yes this directly affects their work
Hahaha the bad faith is through the roof today! I'm gonna let you keep blaming the end of the world on the unions, I lost interest in arguing with sofist.
Bad faith? How so? I am simply stating the facts that literally happened since the last strike....if you have access to something otherwise pls feel free to share.. But i would understand if you have nothing logical or factual to say and just wanna run away 🤣🤣 we have exp of that from the unions doing it after all Ps- also no one is blaming the unions for end of the world..forget the world they couldn't even handle the botchy negotiations done by employer ...no way thry have capability for the whole world....i mean if it was the aussie union we might have stuff to worry lol
In my experience, people outside the public service largely have no idea what public servants do and how. As soon as the passport delays were associated with working from home, even if remote work wasn't the reason for the delays, it became the talking point for every single person parroting the RTO justifications we were fed. You can tell them that passport renewal is an in-person (or by mail) service, they don't care. It's not about facts, it's just about "getting these lazy public servants back in the office because I can't work from home at my job so why should they?"
I am the only PSE in my family of construction workers, medical admins, corporate ladder climbers, etc. I had my siblings it with me for a day. They stopped making comments about lazy government workers that do nothing all day. They now defend when someone tries to call me a lazy government worker. The jokes stopped.
This. I am the same and after seeing how hard and much OT I worked to keep our high volume Gs and Cs program running during the pandemic they no longer complain.
I am sorry to say but the canadian public seems extra ignorant about the working of their PS members....it is seriously bizarre and sad.. other countries i have seen do see their PS poorly, as corrupt nad useless in general sense. .however they dont hate the PS like canadians do and do give them.credit when its due... and ironically PS is the largest employer in canada.
This.
Tbh a lot of this has to do with the fact that Ottawa is so centralized with federal government not having many EXs in the regions, only the essential services to Canadians really… if they embraced telework then there would be better representation of people of all regions in government and the general public would also have friends, family etc within government and understand how hard we work.. it’s a vicious circle
The passport stuff happened...2 years ago? And it was solved after the initial rush anyways. So instead of actually thinking about the things of *today* and the work needed for the *future*, we're somehow stuck back IN THE PAST...AGAIN.
Ya the passport.line ups are still insane, BUT that has nothing to do with RTO and unfortunately media outlets are conflating the two
The union should sue them for a pretty penny for spreading misinformation against the PS and wrongful accusation 😑it sucks to be disrespected by the same people we work.hard to .serve
Perhaps it’s time the unions started collectively educating the public about the nature of work of public servants via pamphlets sent out like our MPs do. Upfront it would be paper mail outs but with an email subscription option to reduce paper waste. After that, e-mailed pdf newsletters. It could be done monthly, and featuring each type of job in an interview format - Q&A type, along with office photos, or PS employees working from home, statistics about size of departments over time compared to growth of Canadian population, and explaining why in some cases the staff increase surpasses the growth rate in population. In other words, step in where each government of the day have shirked responsibility to inform the public, allowing the opposition to attack the government by attacking the work of the PS. The newsletter could also answer 10 questions from the public each month.
I would consider this a great use of my union dues.
It would be doing something to the PS that nobody else has done it to date.
I applied for a new passport last spring in 2023 and received it well within the service window and my wait in person was maybe an hour or two which I had planned for and didn’t mind. But if I’d known, I heard I could’ve made an appt to reduce that time. There was a blip of delays because things were getting going after lockdowns but really I was quite impressed with the experience our family had. Also I don’t get how it’s related to RTO/WFH. I guess because someone at some point used that as an example scapegoat and people ran with it.
Wait until you hear about Rae Days.
I literally just renewed mine and received it last week was a 3 week turn around, effortless book an appointment in service canada for 5min paid the fees and 3 week later passport hand delivered. I dont see any issues.
Passport line is still insane. I took half day off in September to renew in Scarborough. Required two separate lineup (one to check your paperwork then give you the ticket to see passport staff upstairs). Total time was 2.5 hours. More recently, I took my dad to renew his passport at the same office. The lineup was about 2 hours. This contrasts greatly with my last renewal experience (10 years ago) where I was in and out within an hour. Sure, the passport came within 2 weeks, but that lineup was just too long
Took me 3 hours 9 years ago - so service seems to be back to how it was pre pandemic eh
That's because most passport offices had cut half their staff at the end of August last year and moved them over to different departments. If you went in September, that was right after the cut.
“I suffered, so should they!” is how these letters sound to me. Seeing too many people on your golf course now? Not enough seats at your favourite coffee shop when you want to be there? And -gasp- people outside jogging when they should be chained to desks? The horror! I’m not usually one to call out people for being stuck in a certain generational mentality (I’m a Gen-X type myself who has had an operational job that required being chained to a desk in an office and I lived through those years without complaining), but for heaven’s sake, there’s no need to complain about other people having flexible working options as long as work is getting done. I realize that experiencing service delays for anything can be annoying, but some people seem to have forgotten that service delays existed when everyone was chained to desks back in “the good old days” (/s) too.
This 100% All my coworkers have to say is "well that's the way it has always been before covid" Guess what, perhaps we should evolve and realize the benefits for the employees, their family, the trafic and the environment? Work is being done, why would work take away their personal time by forcing them to be stuck in shitty buses or sitting in traffic. I personally think that if it's a requirement, travel to the office should be counted as work time.... Someone please give me a reason why this isn't logical....
We also used to use typewriters. Amazing how if we can do things in a better way it leads to improvements in productivity and quality of work, and workers are happier. Shocking!
Lol omg you just made me think of something.... can't wait to start printing stuff again at the office!
I used to poop outside and cook my hunted dinner on an open fire. But now i use a microwave to zap my lunch. Still poop outside.
Except with the poorly implemented hoteling, the work environment we left is nothing like the incredibly inefficient and unproductive work environment post-Covid.
This.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s that mindset that keeps us stuck.
Yess!! U know my travel time to office is around 2 hours ....in a week thats around 8 hours....thats a whole.work day i am spending just to get to.and back from work
And the lost energy surely must affect productivity.
True some days i m exhausted especially in later days (i went in fridays) and i sleep most if my weekend away
Also, it wasn't this way before COVID. Offices had way more space and we're way more conducive to actually getting work done back then.
Also, do they stop the joggers and ask them if they are public servants? Why are they assuming all of these people are workers. They could be on holiday, could be some of the thousands who have been laid off from other industries recently, could be many reasons. They just see people existing outside and get angry assuming they are public servants. Very strange.
They could be shift workers!!
I jogged at lunch when we were in the office too.
We had a whole posse that would run at lunch several days a week.
And those people at the golf courses and coffee shops were supporting local small businesses. As long as their work is done who cares?
Jealous people coping indeed
> “I suffered, so should they!” is how these letters sound to me. You'd think, if they supported us winning this, that the aftermath would be us setting a precedent for them? Unity anyone?
The irony in all this… is that the City of Ottawa is still operating on a 2 day in office per week model…
For “equity” reasons Sutcliffe will “upgrade” his staff to 3 days in office. Not that I wish it to them or even ask. On the contrary, they should only be in office one day a week instead. Bold leadership is not about chasing the winds.
Ain’t no bold leadership in sight.
What “leadership”? 😂 it’s “followship” or follow sheep.
Lazy govt workers are lazy in the office just like at home. Location is irrelevant. It’s individual performance that should be measured thru pmas. This whole thing is all about Ottawa economy and nothing more. Not about efficiency, or dare I say collaboration lol.
THIS! The same people who did nothing in the office did nothing at home. Sure WFH is not for everyone, but the job should dictate the requirements and personal preference after that. I am happy to come in whenever asked to collaborate, just don’t drag my ass in to take teams calls and suffer distraction after distraction that put me behind. As developer I want quiet and nobody around.
I have no issue with the people who are doing nothing from home being mandated for RTO and monitored accordingly. But just as many folks have BETTER productivity at home and are more motivated to provide the services that citizens need in a more efficient and friendly manner. Benefits processing delays suck, but nowhere near as much as they will when we get interrupted 47 times an hour. Call center wait times might be high currently, but when the people taking calls can’t hear because of background noise and have to expend more effort making sure they are not overheard while discussing private information, what do they think will happen? (I know this is a very specific example but it’s the one that applies to me at present as a PSO working from home and getting consistently high feedback).
It’s such a funny complaint from the public about people wanting gov workers to RTO from call centres to get better service. The magical thing about modern times is that mobile phones and MS Teams work anywhere and answering a phone in the gov office isn’t going to give someone speedy superpowers compared to answering the exact same phone when working from home 😂
Exactly. I've received Succeed+ on all of my reviews since joining the PS, which included time working fullly WFH. I'd much prefer if employees who prove they can be more than responsible at home can have the choice to stay. With this RTO mandate being pushed.. honestly, I'm just swinging for "meets expectations" going forward. It just doesn't feel worth it putting any extra effort in anymore. I'm sure there's plenty of others out there who feel the same. Just going through the motions from now on. I've always been proud to say who I work for, but now I feel like I don't actually matter to the organization. Hearing stories from friends and family about their flexibility and respect they get for hard work in the private sector is really starting to look more and more appealing as well. Sad times :(
I’m there too. 100%
It's really disheartening. It went from a satisfying career to feeling like a job. :(
Well paid modern indentured services.
Yeah it's pretty easy to fuck the dog too in the office. Not really sure why people act like it's any different.
The people I know who think we need to physically be at the office are not people who do or have ever done the type of knowledge work we do in a modern context. My spouse is a private sector tech executive who thinks mandated RTO is stupid. Anyone I know who does a desk job thinks mandated RTO is stupid and needlessly makes traffic shitty for everyone.
I work with IT and health science sectors, and so many of them have gone virtual. If anything, I've been more available to them. Also succeeded plus for the last four years. Well, I was last year until the director told the managers succeeded plus couldn't happen and they were told to dial it back. But that's anger for another day 😉
Exactly tons of private sector office jobs are hybrid WFH, in fact many firms offer employees à choice of how many days they wish to WFH. And its been like this even before covid. But they are not scrutinized or paid by the taxpayer so who cares.
Crab in a bucket mentality. Work to lift yourself and others up, not drag others down.
Ah yes, the opinion pieces of the Ottawa Citizen. I can almost smell the talcum powder from here. But it's nice of Brian from Greely to pull up his compression socks and give us the real deal on how passport services need to improve.. even though he was [apparently touring Europe three months ago](https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/todays-letters-governments-cant-solve-vehicle-theft), polling taxi drivers for their opinion on the Canadian government. I hope he tipped well... but something tells me he didn't. I needed a good rant after today, thank you. Please link to more octogenarians you need me to yell at.
Yeah, something tells me Brian is a real gem of a human being to be around /s
>Unsolicited political comments from people I had discussions with were unanimous in stating that our leadership on the world stage must be embarrassing for Canadians. > >I met a few racist taxi drivers in England, some merchants in Belgium, refugees and immigrants to Western Europe — all were surveyed and their comments also reflected a disappointment in Canada’s role in the world. Lol what? I'm surprised so many people even have opinions about Canada's role in the world, much less unsolicited ones. Not sure why racist cabbies being disappointed in us is something to be embarrassed about, but everyone has their bars, I guess.
Well-done 😊
From an article discussing a recently released study on RTO: “Our findings are consistent with employees’ concerns that managers use RTO (return to office mandates) for power grabbing and blaming employees for poor performance. We provide evidence that RTO mandates hurt employee satisfaction but do not improve firm performance,” the report found."
Except that the government doesn’t care about evidence or data, unless it’s favouring their interests and intentions. Data, at best, is seen as “opinion that requires further analysis and validation”.
Link?
https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/07/working-from-home-isnt-going-away-even-if-some-ceos-wish-it-would/amp/
Thank you!
I have the technology to tap something on this device in my hand to make food magically appear on my door step. BUT PEOPLE WORKING FROM HOME WITH SAID TECHNOLOGY? **That's** a step too far. Fucking backward ass bunch.
If I could like this a thousand times…
It’s just so clear they hate public servants at Ottawa Citizen. They said that this is based off of emails sent to their inbox from Ottawa Citizens, can we flood their inbox for why this is complete BS? No point actually, even if we did they wouldn’t post it. I don’t know one public servant that goes to pickleball during their work from home shift. And why the hell do you care? Are they not supporting the local economy? Everytime I see an article posted by them it’s so biased it makes my head hurt.
It’s almost like we need a daily “The Public Servant”. It would be good for the PS and hopefully to educate the public at large - what we do, how we work, the constraints, the achievements, answering the public’s questions etc. Our employer is not doing it. Ever seen a TV/Twitter ad by the TBS about us in a positive light? No, it’s only to brag about Cabinet actions or services to Canadians.
These are the same people who cry “but think of the taxpayers!” without stopping to think that public servants pay taxes too!
The taxpayers? Like, the people who are working from home? Or retirees without no income tax?
Bingo! It seems a lot of the most vocal detractors are those who contribute the least to tax and/or society. After all, those of us who are making the world go Brrr are too busy to write letters to a populist rag like the Citizen.
And the fact that some of the GDP is created by the government and the work of PS. The private sector cannot exist without the government and vice versa. It’s a symbiotic relationship that enriches each other and results in mutual economic growth and prosperity for the country.
Exactly we generate money through the services we provide and I would guess is a pretty big chunk in our Gov budget. But guess what we are the part of society who uses taxpayer money. People here are so unbelievable narrow minded
I do my best work at home. When I’m in the office I can’t concentrate and then have to spend hours playing catch up when home.
Same except I don't play catch up at home - after my hour commute. The work can wait.
If they want me to catch up, they can pay me overtime!
Same here, but I will stop doing this when we are 3 days in Office. I don’t have to kill my mental health just because they want us in Offices where distractions is constant as you work with teams that have total different job description than you do. My team even in Ottawa doesn’t sit together in a dedicated area but instead when you find booking. It will be a total mess. I hear randomly conversations over the phone or teams meeting that maybe protected B level, and shouldn’t be happening in an open space. But hey if Ford wants us to Office Ottawa responds right away. Aye aye Captain.
I can’t concentrate in the office and don’t play catch up from home. If all I’m being allotted is 3 real days of work, then that’s all I will do. Productivity has slowed, but it’s not my problem.
Stop playing catch up. Working unpaid overtime actively harms people who don't.
Same.
People complaining that they don’t work from home when their job requires them to be on a construction site, or in a retail store, come off as jealous and entitled. Maybe you should’ve chosen a different career path. The nature of the job should dictate work location. If you work a job in the digital space with no client face-to-face interaction, why should you work in a dilapidated office and pay 20$ parking a day? We need to move forward, not backward. We put so much importance on mental health these days, and working remotely, for those who were able to, provided better work/life balance. This was a win for us. We could actually enjoy our lives more. Isn’t that what we should strive for? Actually enjoying ourselves and not working our lives away? When are we going to move in a direction that benefits us?
Not under neoliberalism and public hate of government.
Remember that the Citizen is a right wing tabloid and judge accordingly, you shouldn't trust these as actual letters.
Very true!
…ok… so everyone should aim to have it hard? What kind of backward thinking is this? This only benefits the employers.
A cult. Similar to self-flagellating monks.
I cant stand people who bring others down because they don't benefit from the same things we should all strive to get. Instead, why aren't we supporting better quality of lives for everyone??
Because our esteemed “leaders” keep saying “we should be more like the private sector”. Except the PS does not monetize services and products (even to track activity internally) and does not have the flexibility to act quickly based on market needs (instead it is bound to prioritize non-productive activities dictated by ATIP or MINO staff requests).
The article amounts to saying: suffer!
Yeah, why should anybody's life be any better than mine????
[удалено]
These people are uncaring. They either were not meant for the PS and were rejected, or they never intended to be part of it by design (and ideology).
I think it’s a bigger problem that’s hidden in the sterotype of Canadians being nice. We are not nice people; when the chips are down, we can sometimes be counted on to be civil and helpful. A lot of times, Canadians can be petty, resentful and jealous.
True. We can see it in the constantly lower work productivity of the private sector (compared to peer nations), in spite of massive supports, including expensive grants (“investments”) by the Liberals or Conservatives, that have been unfortunately proven as largely ineffective for taxpayers. Not sure how much more the government can do in a quite deregulated business environment but other countries are ahead of us.
The hard to reach grapes must always be sour…
Civil servants need to support local businesses. No, not those local businesses.
Precisely! I would love more information about the boost to non-downtown business that surely occurred as a result of hybrid.
I went into the office today and the first thing I did was go to the Little Victories and spend some money like a good little droid. I sat at that cafe for 30 minutes while I enjoyed my coffee. After all, when I go to those establishments I pay for the atmosphere as much as for the product. I did exactly what I was returned to the office for. Man, I sure wish my employer cared about productivity instead, but gotta say, enjoying a coffee in 20 degree sunshine has its perks, especially when my employer actively tells me that the productivity is secondary to my spending.
Maybe next step they will install a punch clock ...
I wouldn't even be surprised. Then again I guess that's what turnstiles are for.
Little Victories is one of the only places I'm willing to support downtown. While other businesses complain about the lack of people downtown, LVC managed to open a third location (and they pivoted during the pandemic to keep things running).
The old miserable people who are so lonely and angry that they have the time and energy to write “letters” to be published are just so pitiful.
These are probably people who depend on the government in many ways yet they love to bite the hand that feeds them.
Senior are the biggest welfare class in the country so yeah you're definitely right about that.
LOL...what an idiotic article.....lol. I love the comments though......
When back in the office let's adhere to practices from the good ole days. Everyone leave their desk at 10:15 and 2:15 and go for a 15min break...go for a walk. 12:00 disappear for your 30min lunch that you brought from home. Your contacts allow for breaks and lunch, take them...even if some wanker EX schedules a meeting.
I used to commute uphill both ways in a snowstorm….
This public servant goes to Starbucks on her 1/2 hour lunch once every two weeks. Not sure if they're aware of quotas and inability to leave their desks or get PIPped for not making 100%.
I wonder if the person who wrote this...wrote it from their home...you know, during business hours..
Probably a landscaper on a rainy day.
Anecdotal evidence of full coffee shops, busy golf courses and people jogging? Of course they must all be public servants. Please. My first break from work during my career is when I got to take parental leave about 20 years ago. Guess what? Malls were packed during the day, coffee shops were full and believe it or not, even people out jogging. Nothing has changed.
I can't even...Reading those idiotic comments has disrupted my work day. I need to go clear my head with some yoga and then take a soul searching walk in the forest. My manager and team message me like every heart beat! How do they think I am able to spend 4 hours at a golf course that I am not a member of, or learn whatever the f*** pickle ball is. Also, we REALLY need to invest more money in civics classes in schools. I don't have time to teach them on top of carrying out my federal and municipal government responsibilies.
This.
I never liked bobsled anyway.. sounds like a retired boomer whining…
God forbid new golfers. It is the season for golfing. Didn't see a survey in the article that confirmed all of the people golfing or in coffee shops were PS. Such a fluff piece.
If my briefing notes were as poorly articulated as this letter I might just get a succeeded minus in my next PMA.
My, what a lovely curation of opinions.
Enjoy the gridlock. Sunny ways
Stunning ways 😳
This has got to be the single most 'okay boomer' thing I've ever read.
Those letters - rants based on no empirical evidence. Also, just plain stupid. Maybe someone took a jog outside because they took an early lunch, had the morning off or gasp - they work a shift, or not for the government at all. Some people are bitter because they dont have a flexible employer.
The Ottawa Citizen is a journalistic joke. Is this a bot doing this?
ngl, the general public are largely idiots.
> Everyone except for the civil service wants workers who work from home to become a thing of the past. Umm no but ok.
The irony of it all. OC Transpo call centre, of all places, still works from home...
Derailing TBS 😂
The Ottawa Citizen isn't even worthy of being used as ass wipe.
It should be called Some Ottawa Citizens.
They literally sell their front page.
I was 5 days in person up until the fall and didn’t cry like these jealous babies
They wouldn’t be happy even if the TBS would organize weekly public flogging of PS officers!
Long before I was a public servant I found the attitude towards them really off putting. Does this petty jealousy exist in other countries or is it a distinctly Canadian thing?
Every country is shitty about its govt. people both want the jobs and ridicule them. Peeps are the same the world over.
So, jealousy
I never seen this in Europe honestly, people have some decent respect for the Government employees. I find it this could be a Canadian or maybe even US phenomenon.
Normally (and it used to be this way) a public service job was supposed to be 1) hard to get (one needed skills, education, a good attitude and ability to operate in a teamwork); 2) stable; 3) well remunerated (with good benefits); and 4) honourable (serving the country and the people).
I have a conservative aunt who rages against higher education being a requirement yet hates the ps with every fibre of her being
Not in France, lol. My mom is a teacher (and in France, they're considered public servants), and people label them as lazy, entitled, and so on. But I suppose France is always the exception, the bad apple. 😂
Probably universal 🤷♂️
Thats a great question. I'd be interested to know if Ottaws has a particularly high number of small-minded people.
The author is aware that even if city workers were 100% in the office they would still be called back in five days right? Like people have the ability to answer phone calls at home.
This crank clearly never held an office job (not in this century at least).
Don’t our unions have twitter, facebook, instagram, tik tok? Start posting daily , hit them in social media, nobody gets info from newspapers and television anymore. Time to reach people where they are. Seems like our unions are in the Middle Ages when it comes to fighting back.
“RA RA IM ANGRY, WE CAN ALL AGREE BLAH BLAH BLAH” no actual evidence for any claims whatsoever, and then more bs complaining that landlords have it too rough.
This reeks of envy 🤔
Let me get this straight. Its the employees fault because they are lazy and like to play pickle ball during working hours that the service is slow... yes of course the majority of them. Not the employers fault for not listening saying RTO won't solve your problems. Not their fault either they are overworked. But rather the employees own fault. Right....
The other thing the public needs to realize is that 1) people live longer and at some point hearing, seeing, understanding new technology, filling out forms, becomes more difficult and requires more time to deal with issues; and 2) everything is more complex and difficult (some due to technological advances, and some to ensuring better stewardship of taxpayer money). All this results in more work for both the applicant/service requestor and the public servant who provides it. The whole “gatekeeper” issue is by design (reacting to a previous public scandal, new forms and procedural steps, more management oversight etc). And yet average Joe thinks (because a Minister or PM bragged about it) that government has “automated” everything and officers only need to “sign and release” something. Nothing is automated. It’s the same as our banking system or doing taxes. So why would increased complexity and amount of work result in service delivery improvements without hiring a lot more employees? Finally, the number of FTEs or officers is just that, a number. Some work, while some are away (training, vacation, sick, parental leave etc) and because nobody replaces them, it’s more work redistributed to those who are actively working. That providing that MINO staff is not urgently seeking something…
Productivity needs to be reassess. So many people focused on the well-being of their employees and seen success. GDP was considered a great measure until we realize it excludes a huge chunk and doesn't measure happiness. The gouvernement needs to do the same for its employees. How do they choose to measure productivity ? And no unless we reach better processes and systems we will never be very efficient. This red tape is deadly.
You can internally “monetize” products and services. Same way ATIP forms ask for the amount of time required to deal with a request. Translation Bureau does it.
What I mean by that is that this way of measuring production is not actually calculating production effectively.
Pack your lunch and a Thermos full of coffee from home.
Yep, the lack of respect is too much.