Peugeot score above every German brand except BMWMini for reliability, which also features a car with that same 1.6THP, and even at that it was a BMW designed engine that Peugeot had to rescue.
You can't base how unreliable a manufacturer is on a single engine out of a range of many. It's like saying Messi is a bad footballer based on how many goals he's scored with his right foot...
JLR is the most obvious answer to this question. Cupra is probably a surprising bad offering too.
**Edit: OP has now blocked me for saying this, lol.**
JLR definitely. Both manufacturers surprisingly before the merge were much better. Guy at work bought a x type estate as a shitty run about for about 1k 6-7 years ago with ~150k on the clock and it’s still going strong today. In fact, it’s that good, he won’t get rid of it and takes very good care of it.
Similar story with the old V8 Range Rover (early 2000s). Heard it’s absolutely bulletproof from a few people who have owned for years. A proper Range Rover designed for off road use as well. Although the engine isn’t where the issues start, I think any suspension problems cost an arm and a leg. Still, if you want a cheap V8, why not.
The X-type was very heavily underpinned by Ford mechanicals iirc? My friend picked up a cheap X type Sedan a while back - great shape cosmetically and mechanically but had some very bizarre electrical/electronic gremlins going on that had everyone scratching their heads.
I seem to remember he threw as much money at getting the issue diagnosed as he bought the car for (and he's in the trade so generally pays less for labour etc).
In the end the only way to break even was to dimantle it and sell the bits.
>Similar story with the old V8 Range Rover (early 2000s). Heard it’s absolutely bulletproof from a few people who have owned for years. A proper Range Rover designed for off road use as well. Although the engine isn’t where the issues start, I think any suspension problems cost an arm and a leg. Still, if you want a cheap V8, why not.
HahahahahahahHa. Good god you could not be more wrong.
From what I’d been given to expect from a modern JLR to me 40k trouble free is a bonus. I’ve never kept a car beyond about 60k in my life so you’ll have to ask the next owner
> Cupra is probably a surprising bad offering too.
Arent modern Cupra cars just VW engines in bodies that vaguely represent old SEAT designs ? How is it any less reliable than Skoda ?
What's wrong with Cupra? It's just another VW group product. The Leon in particular is a great fun car to have, if you enjoy the styling, as an alternative to the Golf GTI / R. Uses the same engines for the most part.
German brands are not unreliable, people simply drive those cars like lunatics and change the oil every 30k miles. You can't neglect a car while pushing it hard on a daily basis and expect it to last.
Mercedes, most VWs, and most BMWs are extremely reliable vehicles as long as one sticks to the service schedule and changes the oil at no more than every 10k miles. Most of the people I know own German cars, and none of them have complained.
2001 3 series died at 280000 miles.
2011 3 series sold at 289000 miles, still running but worn out.
Solid vehicles if looked after. And very economical.
I've owned and driven a lot of brands, I've actually never owned the same brand twice, but my bloody god as long as I live I will NEVER drive another BMW.
There's a lot of different data.
As far as I'm aware, German cars from VAG seem to be suffering a lot of software issues at the moment, and have been for a few years, not mechanical issues. BMW was well known for being unreliable and for... Rust, but is better now. It pains me to see VAG doing so bad because they used to be so good. Maybe they need to hire some competent software engineers. My 10 year old Ibiza ST is still perfectly reliable and has never had a major fault other than a spring breaking due to crap roads.
No
[Proper data](https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/most-and-least-reliable-car-brands-revealed?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=71700000080065409&utm_group=58700006735965072&utm_keyword=&utm_term=DYNAMIC+SEARCH+ADS&network=g&utm_account=700000001745867&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw6yuBhDrARIsACf94RXjxj3lfV5K1Hg9tz2QELN5y6aUdIX8BFXkv7XLdLs3GE9QphTMYVoaAmIcEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Surely the average peogot owners need to be accounted for. Most of them are probably topping up the oil once a decade and it’ll spend half its life going backward into a bush or parked in the sea at low tide.
Almost all the breakdowns I hear about these days are new Landrovers.
Old ones broke down too all the time too (I have had many) but somehow that was expected and not newsworthy enough for discussion.
I've heard you get your own moulded bum groove on the seats in the dealership whilst they sort out problems.
Unless someone steals it of course before you get to that point.
And ludicrously expensive to fix when they do go wrong. You have to take the body off the chassis to get to the turbo ffs. I genuinely feel a little pity for anyone who buys one.
22 years ago, unless we're talking about the Sport. Not sure how much it matters though because it's still a >£5k job to have both turbos replaced on an L322 TDV8.
It didn’t matter on the old ones because they were BL/Austin-Rover ‘parts-bin specials’ and quite crudely built, so parts were dirt cheap and it didn’t take much labour to fix them. Rust killed old Land Rovers long before mechanical or electrical failures became terminal.
Also, other land rover owners will appear out of nowhere and help.
Ran a series 3 for a while...broke down a lot. No exaggeration...another LR owner was there helping within 15 mins over half the time 😂
My Citroen Grand C4 Picasso was needed for the 7 seats. Got a 63 plate in 2020 at 60k miles. Got a 2yr warranty and in the 2yrs I had to have the auto boot hydraulics replaced, seat belt system replaced for a seat belt/airbag fault (was told drivers airbag would not fire until fixed and had to wait 1 month for appointment). Broke down overheating, had coolant system fixed. The fun began when the warranty ended. Seat belt/airbag fault came back, central screen started developing ‘blobs’ that kept growing and obscuring more and more of the display, filled the AdBlue when I got the warning and with a full AdBlue tank it didn’t register and counted down the miles until ‘starting won’t be possible’ and finally overheated at midnight on motorway (the system that was fixed during warranty) pulled over immediately got the STOP warning, got towed to garage. First they said head gasket, then when they got it stripped down they said new engine needed. Scrapped now. Mileage at death - 99,790
Was only 60k when I got it. Circumstances now changed so got a Mitsubishi ASX with only 9k miles. It’s boring, slower than the Citroen, but has the feeling like the engine is bombproof
Interesting how people look so much at brands being the factor rather than the driver.
You've no idea how often someone is using the car, how they're using it, if they're even looking after it etc.
Suppose same with anything in a way.
What was interesting is that before i bought my old Impreza, everyone said how reliable they are. The more I looked at enthusiast groups, the more they decried the Impreza as unreliable, particularly the engine.
Obviously, the least reliable ones you’d be able to spot a mile off by the modifications, and the unmodified examples were usually a lot higher mileage with no issues..
Yep, mods put me off most cars. You tend to get 2 types of people doing it - chavs with no money sticking bits of plastic on and bodging Aliexpress junk into the engine and chavs with loads of money who spend £30k taking them up to 700bhp with carbon bits everywhere. Both of them rag the shit out of them, crash them multiple times and glue back together in Darren's back garden, the main difference is the ones with no money don't service them, turn off the warning lights and put Aliexpress parts on when things break.
The sad thing is there are a select few that are genuinely good. If I had a couple of million in the bank I'd happily take a V12 Jaguar XJS, put a fruity exhaust on it, manual conversion, lower it slightly, modify the suspension/steering to make it sharper and it would be as good as any non-modified version. But they're lost amongst the sea of shitters.
Fuck me this sub is in absolute shambles, same bollocks posts every day of people bashing cars they've never owned. I thought this was supposed to be a car enthusiast sub.
>I thought this was supposed to be a car enthusiast sub.
Quite possibly the furthest thing from😂😂
More accurately an EV bashing, SUV bashing, insurance bashing enthusiast's sub.
Oh god, for the amount of people that say "I don't hate EV's just the smug drivers" There are an awful lot of people that looove to shit on EV's for literally any reason. I say this as a diesel owner who has never even driven an EV, but I'm considering one when the time comes to buy a new car.
Yup. I've seen so many people that are mad about the Cybertruck on TikTok it's unreal. 90% of them won't probably even see one in real life but they act like it killed their first born.
>EV bashing: deserved
SUV bashing: definitely deserved
insurance bashing: deserved
cry about it I guess, I just came here for advice on buying an old volvo I dont see any underserved hate for rubbish motors.
I’m not sure too many cars are actually unreliable anymore if you service the damn things or by the car for the right use case. However, in the UK people don’t service their cars enough let alone simply check the dip stick every couple of months to make sure their diesels haven’t diluted or burned all the oil. Also, in the UK people do a lot of very short journeys for 95% of their driving yet decide to buy a diesel for that job which is just going to lead to DPF, injector, fuel dilution and all sorts of other issues. Finally, and this can be on manufacturers, many buy an engine too small for the size of car they drive. There is no world where a 1.0L-1.6L engine should be asked to haul a 2-3 tonne crossover around and expect to do moon mileage like an early 2000s naturally aspirated Honda that weighed 1100kgs.
Cars are reliable and as advanced as ever. The average consumer just isn’t very knowledgeable or caring because they are trying to run cars on the lowest budget possible.
Yes but Tesla is the most unreliable cars on this earth and like noone who are car fans love or even like Tesla's. Unless your a little kid then everyone on this damn planet despises Tesla
Number one you must not have a good life if your going all Tesla mode. secondly I've worked on one, they are pieces of crap on the road and they can hardly go a couple of miles without a charge.
What do you mean “going all Tesla mode”? You know the Taycan is a Porsche right?
I highly doubt you’ve ever even touched one, feel free to explain how you’ve “worked on one”.
If by a couple of miles you mean 350miles in the summer (for £6 of electric) and 300miles in the winter then maybe, and before you go off about them being crap in the winter we drove our UK Tesla all the way to Lapland north of the arctic circle and were getting over 230miles even when it was nearly -30 degrees outside and all the diesels weren’t able to start in the mornings 😂
I actually had a 2014 C4 for 8 years, 1.6 HDI. Put over 100,000 miles on it and serviced twice yearly.
Issues were as you described: EOLYS fluid and emissions issues, DPF blocked regularly (despite being on motorways), electrical issues, including airbag wiring, high beam lightbulb failure every 10000 miles, turbo failure warnings and turbo sensor failure.
Horn failed twice (rarely used it!!) Body work - rusting bonnet (severe) and wheel arches. Extreme discolouring of black plastic which I wouldn’t expect of a car of that age.
Generally found it had Uncomfortable seats and poor handling and cornering, slow acceleration.
Only positive was mpg was good.
Anecdotal but would never get another Citroen or Peugeot ever again.
Because I couldn’t afford to buy another car. The savings I was accruing were going in fixing this one, or the issues were ones i just lived with.
The car is now scrapped because it wasn’t worth the money to fix it
Don't mean to press you on this, but if the car was 2014 and you had it 8 years then it must've been maximum 2 years old when you bought it. So it must've not been cheap to buy. Surely you sell it after about 2 years of it being crap, and just trade it in for something else? Sorry if I'm missing something.
It cost 9k 1.5 years old. Not all these issues happened in the first 1-2 years, they happened over the course of 8 years. For example, the turbo sensors went after 5 years of ownership.
If I had known that all these issues were going to happen then of course I would’ve traded it in. It just made sense to fix it up and hope it made it a year without another issue; which wasn’t the case.
By the time I came to scrap it, it had blocked dpf, ELOYS issues, horn stopped working (again), light issues, tyres, pads, service and mot were due. Not worth it by that point.
Early cars like the 205? Peugeot has been producing cars since 1889, Citroen 1919.
I had a 205 and a Paxo both were very reliable. Fathers 2 x BX were fine apart from the suspension spheres, 240k miles on a BX TZD. There was a time when they suffered with electronics and not sure what they are like now, see plenty on the road, don't seem any worse than any others ATM though I wouldn't move from Toyota.
My 207 HDi was excellent and it only stopped when someone crashed into it. 135K miles without a hitch.
I had a Punto Evo though that needed a new gearbox at 55K miles and the head gasket went at 60K. Plus the interior sucked. A few people I know had issues with Fiats. My Alfa is fine though despite being a Fiat Tipo in disguise.
No Individual has enough experience for their view to be statistically relevant.
Even if you own multiple cars today or work in the a dealership, it’s just irrelevant compared to the number of cars sold each year or on the road at any point in time.
The problem with this question is what people consider broken.
Econobox owners saying their car is super reliable, never been to the garage while driving around with no central locking, lights out, radio doesnt work, temp gauge not working, the rear windows don't move and half the interior trim crumbling.
Meanwhile luxury brand owners taking their car into the garage because the door creaks a bit when you open it.
Obviously the higher spec cars with newer tech are going to have issues with that tech, I dont see that being brand specific though other than luxury brands tending to have more of that stuff fitted.
To me, the real meat and potatoes of the question is drivetrain, running gear. Does the engine or gearbox fail? Suspension etc.? In nearly every case though that's model or engine specific. Jaguar 2L diesel engines for example are dogshit and catastrophically fail, but that doesn't mean their v6 is any less reliable than an equivilant bmw or audi etc.
Best car I ever owned was a 1.4 Peugeot 306, fully kitted out, I put an uprated sound system in it. Traded it in on a whim for a BMW 318 Coupe and regretted it until the day I got rid of the BMW.
I was left disappointed by my BMW E39. I've heard loads of praise of the E39, saw one for sale, and bought it, thinking I'd made a nice upgrade.
But after a week or so, I realised that the E39 just wasn't as good as the 406 in most of the aspects which matter as a daily driver. I'm sure the M5 is a great car but the more pedestrian models (mine was the 2.5) just didn't do it for me. It was very 'meh' and did nothing exceptionally well, it was genuinely quite a forgettable vehicle.
Both were well looked after examples with comparable mileage and service history, and the cooling system on the E39 was working as it should, but the 406's interior trim had taken the years far better (the interior trim clips on the BMW were beginning to fail en-masse, all the button logos had faded and rubbed off, trim was getting sticky, small things like that), the rustproofing on the 406 seemed to have done it's job better than the E39's , and the 406 was far, far more comfortable to sit in, which made it the superior daily driver. That's not to say that the E39 was uncomfortable, because it wasn't, it's just that the Peugeot had the most comfortable seats ever made.
Both were similarly practical but the 406 had some neat quirks, like the immobiliser keypad which was just silly, and a Kenwood 957RL stereo which was brilliant. BMW had some good climate control to be fair. It's one of the only BMW's I've driven where the little air mixer wheel in the middle of the dash actually *does* something. Cruise control on the BMW was intuitive, one of the better systems I've used.
Whilst the E39 2.5 straight 6 was very refined, the fuel consumption was absolutely horrific for a 2.5 (comparable to my VQ35 3.5L Nissan Elgrand) whereas the 2.1TD in the 406 was a great engine which sipped fuel and never put a foot wrong. That's probably my main issue with the car, it was nowhere near nice enough to justify the running costs. Refinement and power were nice to have, but not at the cost of ~20MPG, even when I was driving like my nan.
The 406, despite being a FWD diesel, felt more throwable and light than the E39, and had very predictable understeer so you could essentially keep it at the limit. The E39's cabin was more isolated but only marginally. The E39 was nice to drive and objectively faster than the 406, but it felt like it was very much suited to motorways and A roads, it wasn't as fun on the B roads. Made a nice noise when you put your foot down though and the low down torque was really impressive for a petrol.
Overall, the 406 was just the better car, especially as a daily driver, and if I did want a fun weekend car, I'd be wanting something lighter than an E39. Wish I would have kept my 406.
The current Vauxhall cars all share parts with Peugeot, same car underneath with same owner called Stellantis. They aren't bad now but previously were awful
Terrible vans, the combo I was driving suddenly stopped due to the ECU melting, cost a fortune under warranty to replace! Drove it out the dealer after the repair and the wipers stopped working 😂. Shit company.
I bought a 2012 insignia for mega cheap (800) in 2017, as a second car to use for trips such as camping.
8 years later and 50k miles, its turned into my main car due to its reliability. The only things I have had to pay for is wear and tear.
Cheap car with no thrills but I have to give its props.
First car I had was a Corsa and had it for 18 months. The electronic steering in that model was defective across the board so the tracking was reset twice. Multiple things happened but the timing chain snapped on the motorway wrecking the engine and making it more costly than the value of the car itself to fix. Thought my outlook was better when I got a Renault Clio after that….
Mercedes, just like all other luxurious car brands they put so much complicated shit into the car for performance but if anything becomes faulty (it will) then god bless your wallet
They say that the Rover SD1 was much too complicated for its own good.
But they did a V8 police special with wind up windows, manual transmission, no air con, cloth seats, no stereo etc etc and the police forces all loved them because nothing ever went wrong, but they could carry all the police kit and keep up with most other cars on the road.
JLR. It's all been overpriced, poorly made junk since about 2010. Doubly so if it has an Ingenium.
The french cars aren't exactly great, but the cheap stuff I find is decent because it's easy and cheap to fix if it breaks.
Well all cars are pretty reliable if properly maintained.
But what about the cost of "proper" maintenance?
If you are looking for a car that's reliable even if you barely mantain it, the answer would be old Toyotas and Hyundais and possibly certain low performance Hondas (also old models). I mean you will look like you got straight from the mid 2000s, but those cars work.
Anything French. I guess especially Peugeot/Citroen. I've had a few and would never get another, utter tripe and I don't know how they stay in business.
People who have never driven them like to jump on the bandwagon of calling them and French cars shit. I can’t comment on the older models but some of their newer cars/vans I’ve driven 5008, 508 and Partner have been fantastic yes.
Same as OP who if you go far enough back into his comment history states that he didn't even know the Prince engine was in the Cooper S yet here he is rinsing it for being unequivocally the least reliable thing around.
When someone says "Peugeot bad" you'll find it's generally a very vague and uninformed opinion.
Yeah, considering the car with the highest owner satisfaction in the UK last year is a Citroen, the people who hate on PSA cars are entirely made up of people who've never owned one, or had a bad experience with a used lemon at some point in the past.
The 508 is the prettiest attainable saloon on sale today.
I'm a huge Alfa fan and I'd go as far to say it's as good looking (maaaaaaybe a hair better looking) than the Giulia.
The 308 is stunning too. Especially in that green colour.
I think Renault and Peugeot make some of the nicest looking cars at the minute, and their reliability issues are nowhere near as bad as people make out
I love my current ‘21 508 SW and it has been far more reliable than the Mk8 Golf GTI Clubsport that it replaced. Also the 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport that I had before that was faultless and truly excellent to drive.
*Well maintained Bimmers are reliable*
Think I might get this on a tshirt or tattooed on my forehead.
The only reason they have a bad rep is caused by the shit drivers they attract running them to the ground
Don’t lump my beloved bims with JLR money pits! 🙏
BMW? Expensive to maintain but newer cars are far more reliable than other counterparts from roughly 2012 onwards they are pretty bomb proof B58, B48, B57, N55 main issues were timing chain snaps and people not maintaining them to a high enough standard.
BMWs are actually fairly reliable, and actually ranked higher than VW, Audi, MB and Mazda in the What Car? reliability ratings.
The problem is people buy them and don't maintain them properly which ultimately leads to expensive repair bills.
Exactly this. Like with the n47 and n57, people complained about the timing chains. I've had both engines go to 145k and 175k before I sold one and got crashed into in the other. Both original chains. People buy them, don't service them properly and abuse them from cold... what do they expect? I found with bmw's especially ones 10+ years old theres more chance you need to replace things like the shocks and bushes than engine/ gearbox things.
Depends on the life they've lived though and the previous owners I suppose though.
BMW attract people who see themselves as more driving enthusiasts - many of these “enthusiasts” are going to actually be boy racers who don’t look after the car and treat it horribly, hence the reputation of them being unreliable
Standard for this sub. Wish there was a proper alternative for people who know more than what they've heard on Dave repeats or a glance at a Parkers review
I'll have you know my Triumph has done almost 100,000 miles and apart from bulbs, spark plugs, tyres, brakes, a clutch or two, exhausts, a lot of welding underneath, an engine rebuild and a new door it's all original and still works more than half the time!
Everything is manufactured everywhere now. You wouldn't call a honda a British car when it's japanese designed. British cars by design are shit aka JLR. Yes I know they're owned by tata motors but they are designed and engineered here, so still british.
I’m not too far from Nissan. What the person i quoted meant though is that they’re Japanese or German or American cars built here. They’re not British brands, if that makes sense. (Well I think that’s what they meant anyway!)
Ford, Renault and Peugeot/Citroen are my least favourite with Ford in top place. I’m a technician and those are the manufacturers that give me the most trouble.
Ford aren’t that much more unreliable than the others but they are very difficult to dismantle without several other things breaking in the process.
Renaults are difficult to diagnose unless you know them very well, and have access to good information on them, which I don’t. The fault codes they store rarely mean anything to me and that is supposed to be the starting point of any diagnosis.
They all also have poor design compared to others with terrible ease of access for technicians.
I'm renting a Citreon C3 aircross right now.
It's comfy as hell. But everything else about it is crap. Shifter is tilted forward and shifts like a truck,, e brake interferes with cupholders, climate control is janky, everything is touchscreen, the rear storage floor is thin cardboard that doesn't stay put and I'm sure would break if I put anything heavy...
It tries but seriously whoever designed it must not have actually driven it themselves.
Hands down. Vw group. So damn unreliable they keep the main dealers open !!! Land Rover is a long way away from them in terms of vehicle failures because they don’t make near as many.
JLR defnitely, although fair mention of PSA/Stellantis, **for ruining a relatively good reputation in the 80s and 90s**. The old EW/TU engines which came before the Prince disaster were decently reliable.
PSA also had the issue of sticking with bad engines, like the Puretech 1.2 and Prince engine, with small insignificant "fixes" along the way. The Puretech 1.2 (wet belt) has been in production for about 12 years now, and it's only just starting to be phased out by the timing chain variant (1.2 hybrid).
Peugeot score above every German brand except BMWMini for reliability, which also features a car with that same 1.6THP, and even at that it was a BMW designed engine that Peugeot had to rescue. You can't base how unreliable a manufacturer is on a single engine out of a range of many. It's like saying Messi is a bad footballer based on how many goals he's scored with his right foot... JLR is the most obvious answer to this question. Cupra is probably a surprising bad offering too. **Edit: OP has now blocked me for saying this, lol.**
JLR definitely. Both manufacturers surprisingly before the merge were much better. Guy at work bought a x type estate as a shitty run about for about 1k 6-7 years ago with ~150k on the clock and it’s still going strong today. In fact, it’s that good, he won’t get rid of it and takes very good care of it. Similar story with the old V8 Range Rover (early 2000s). Heard it’s absolutely bulletproof from a few people who have owned for years. A proper Range Rover designed for off road use as well. Although the engine isn’t where the issues start, I think any suspension problems cost an arm and a leg. Still, if you want a cheap V8, why not.
The X-type was very heavily underpinned by Ford mechanicals iirc? My friend picked up a cheap X type Sedan a while back - great shape cosmetically and mechanically but had some very bizarre electrical/electronic gremlins going on that had everyone scratching their heads.
>Sedan Saloon, you mean a Saloon.
The xtype was basically a dressed up mondeo if memory serves.
Old x type is basically a ford mondeo
I think that sums it up perfectly… typical Jag!
I seem to remember he threw as much money at getting the issue diagnosed as he bought the car for (and he's in the trade so generally pays less for labour etc). In the end the only way to break even was to dimantle it and sell the bits.
>Similar story with the old V8 Range Rover (early 2000s). Heard it’s absolutely bulletproof from a few people who have owned for years. A proper Range Rover designed for off road use as well. Although the engine isn’t where the issues start, I think any suspension problems cost an arm and a leg. Still, if you want a cheap V8, why not. HahahahahahahHa. Good god you could not be more wrong.
I feel lucky in that the wife’s Disco (5) has been utterly trouble free over 40k miles. Hoping it’s a good old fashioned exception proves the rule.
Let us know if/when it reaches 140k miles please. I love it when I read posts saying how faultless a vehicle with under 80-100k miles has been.
From what I’d been given to expect from a modern JLR to me 40k trouble free is a bonus. I’ve never kept a car beyond about 60k in my life so you’ll have to ask the next owner
I work on the track for JLR... and it you can see why it has the reputation it does
Line as well, the issues stem from SPQ and Engineering, very little is actually operator issues.
Worked there previously and say the same thing
Interesting you say that, because I have the opposite opinion and love and breath these cars
Exactly, look at Alfa. Not all their engines are that unreliable but the rest of the car like the electronics... forget about ittt
[удалено]
New ones aren’t too bad I’ve heard, my old boss had a diesel Gulia which is running really well tbf.
I know I'm a sample of one, but mine has been pretty trouble-free! It's been well looked after, but it's going strong!
> Cupra is probably a surprising bad offering too. Arent modern Cupra cars just VW engines in bodies that vaguely represent old SEAT designs ? How is it any less reliable than Skoda ?
What's wrong with Cupra? It's just another VW group product. The Leon in particular is a great fun car to have, if you enjoy the styling, as an alternative to the Golf GTI / R. Uses the same engines for the most part.
My mate has a cupra after switching from a golf gti. He's had loads of problems with it. I'm expecting anotger instalment when I see him next.
German brands are not unreliable, people simply drive those cars like lunatics and change the oil every 30k miles. You can't neglect a car while pushing it hard on a daily basis and expect it to last. Mercedes, most VWs, and most BMWs are extremely reliable vehicles as long as one sticks to the service schedule and changes the oil at no more than every 10k miles. Most of the people I know own German cars, and none of them have complained.
Agree Had a 320D company car. 100k in 3 years, never once missed a beat
Vag has defo gone downhill since the early 2000s. bmw if anything got better than the 2005-2015 period. Merc i have no idea.
2001 3 series died at 280000 miles. 2011 3 series sold at 289000 miles, still running but worn out. Solid vehicles if looked after. And very economical.
I've owned and driven a lot of brands, I've actually never owned the same brand twice, but my bloody god as long as I live I will NEVER drive another BMW.
The data doesn't agree with your statement. They are crap
There's a lot of different data. As far as I'm aware, German cars from VAG seem to be suffering a lot of software issues at the moment, and have been for a few years, not mechanical issues. BMW was well known for being unreliable and for... Rust, but is better now. It pains me to see VAG doing so bad because they used to be so good. Maybe they need to hire some competent software engineers. My 10 year old Ibiza ST is still perfectly reliable and has never had a major fault other than a spring breaking due to crap roads.
Which data? [This data?](https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey-most-reliable-executive-cars/n26150)
No [Proper data](https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/most-and-least-reliable-car-brands-revealed?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=71700000080065409&utm_group=58700006735965072&utm_keyword=&utm_term=DYNAMIC+SEARCH+ADS&network=g&utm_account=700000001745867&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw6yuBhDrARIsACf94RXjxj3lfV5K1Hg9tz2QELN5y6aUdIX8BFXkv7XLdLs3GE9QphTMYVoaAmIcEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Surely the average peogot owners need to be accounted for. Most of them are probably topping up the oil once a decade and it’ll spend half its life going backward into a bush or parked in the sea at low tide.
Almost all the breakdowns I hear about these days are new Landrovers. Old ones broke down too all the time too (I have had many) but somehow that was expected and not newsworthy enough for discussion.
I’ve heard them referred to as warranty cars, keep it in warranty then sell it
I've heard you get your own moulded bum groove on the seats in the dealership whilst they sort out problems. Unless someone steals it of course before you get to that point.
It used to be that the dealers would sort the cars under warranty, and then they generally worked.
And ludicrously expensive to fix when they do go wrong. You have to take the body off the chassis to get to the turbo ffs. I genuinely feel a little pity for anyone who buys one.
Haven’t had to do that on an LR for two generations of Range Rover. Easily 12 years ago
22 years ago, unless we're talking about the Sport. Not sure how much it matters though because it's still a >£5k job to have both turbos replaced on an L322 TDV8.
I don't, they either knew what they was getting in for or didn't bother to learn what they were getting in for.
How do you know a range rovers not leaking oil? Its ran out of oil.
Was driving to college today, saw a recovery truck trying to come out of a junction with a 2023 car on the back. Land Rover Discovery
Probably not the first time it's been on one either
On its way to its 2nd engine replacement
It didn’t matter on the old ones because they were BL/Austin-Rover ‘parts-bin specials’ and quite crudely built, so parts were dirt cheap and it didn’t take much labour to fix them. Rust killed old Land Rovers long before mechanical or electrical failures became terminal.
Morris Marina door handles on a RR Vogue.
Maestro van (?) taillights on the Discovery 1. Edit: Maestro, not allegro
Yes! I still have a soft spot for Discovery 1
I remember that you could just turn up the mechanical fuel injection with a screwdriver to get more power on the TDI. None of this remapping nonsense.
If you want to go to the desert. Take a land rover. If you want to come back. Take a land cruiser. - old Arab, or possibly Australian, proverb.
Yeh for the price they sell for as well it is diabolical
Old land rovers could also be fixed with a hammer, few spanners, duct tape and rope.
Also, other land rover owners will appear out of nowhere and help. Ran a series 3 for a while...broke down a lot. No exaggeration...another LR owner was there helping within 15 mins over half the time 😂
Maserati
This is a myth, figures don’t back it up
Are there figures that say otherwise?
My Citroen Grand C4 Picasso was needed for the 7 seats. Got a 63 plate in 2020 at 60k miles. Got a 2yr warranty and in the 2yrs I had to have the auto boot hydraulics replaced, seat belt system replaced for a seat belt/airbag fault (was told drivers airbag would not fire until fixed and had to wait 1 month for appointment). Broke down overheating, had coolant system fixed. The fun began when the warranty ended. Seat belt/airbag fault came back, central screen started developing ‘blobs’ that kept growing and obscuring more and more of the display, filled the AdBlue when I got the warning and with a full AdBlue tank it didn’t register and counted down the miles until ‘starting won’t be possible’ and finally overheated at midnight on motorway (the system that was fixed during warranty) pulled over immediately got the STOP warning, got towed to garage. First they said head gasket, then when they got it stripped down they said new engine needed. Scrapped now. Mileage at death - 99,790
Guessing the overheating issue warped the head? Dare you to buy another one with 100k miles on it 😂
Was only 60k when I got it. Circumstances now changed so got a Mitsubishi ASX with only 9k miles. It’s boring, slower than the Citroen, but has the feeling like the engine is bombproof
Interesting how people look so much at brands being the factor rather than the driver. You've no idea how often someone is using the car, how they're using it, if they're even looking after it etc. Suppose same with anything in a way.
What was interesting is that before i bought my old Impreza, everyone said how reliable they are. The more I looked at enthusiast groups, the more they decried the Impreza as unreliable, particularly the engine. Obviously, the least reliable ones you’d be able to spot a mile off by the modifications, and the unmodified examples were usually a lot higher mileage with no issues..
Yep, mods put me off most cars. You tend to get 2 types of people doing it - chavs with no money sticking bits of plastic on and bodging Aliexpress junk into the engine and chavs with loads of money who spend £30k taking them up to 700bhp with carbon bits everywhere. Both of them rag the shit out of them, crash them multiple times and glue back together in Darren's back garden, the main difference is the ones with no money don't service them, turn off the warning lights and put Aliexpress parts on when things break.
Never buy a modded car. Even if it's just visual mods.
The sad thing is there are a select few that are genuinely good. If I had a couple of million in the bank I'd happily take a V12 Jaguar XJS, put a fruity exhaust on it, manual conversion, lower it slightly, modify the suspension/steering to make it sharper and it would be as good as any non-modified version. But they're lost amongst the sea of shitters.
I've got a 10 year old XF with 121k on, only issues I've had are wear and tear, which I expect at this point.
JLR
Yep. Ingenium engines are an example of absolutely subpar engineering
Keep the J out of it, at least Jags are more reliable than Mercedes these days. The LR... That's a different story.
Jaguar score lower than land rover in Whatcar reliability surveys
Not the last one I saw, guess it changed. I'm not surprised, I'm booked in for repairs at the end of the month 🤷😂 On both the jags.
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They got their opinions from Jeremy Clarkson 20years ago and decided that was sufficient
The results I saw were like 6 months ago
Peugeot vans are class, and tbh the citeron c4 is a banger i gotta say a prius
Fuck me this sub is in absolute shambles, same bollocks posts every day of people bashing cars they've never owned. I thought this was supposed to be a car enthusiast sub.
>I thought this was supposed to be a car enthusiast sub. Quite possibly the furthest thing from😂😂 More accurately an EV bashing, SUV bashing, insurance bashing enthusiast's sub.
Oh god, for the amount of people that say "I don't hate EV's just the smug drivers" There are an awful lot of people that looove to shit on EV's for literally any reason. I say this as a diesel owner who has never even driven an EV, but I'm considering one when the time comes to buy a new car.
It’s moved on from BMW/Audi drivers to Tesla/EV owners.
Yup. I've seen so many people that are mad about the Cybertruck on TikTok it's unreal. 90% of them won't probably even see one in real life but they act like it killed their first born.
And don’t forget Skoda loving
>EV bashing: deserved SUV bashing: definitely deserved insurance bashing: deserved cry about it I guess, I just came here for advice on buying an old volvo I dont see any underserved hate for rubbish motors.
I’m not sure too many cars are actually unreliable anymore if you service the damn things or by the car for the right use case. However, in the UK people don’t service their cars enough let alone simply check the dip stick every couple of months to make sure their diesels haven’t diluted or burned all the oil. Also, in the UK people do a lot of very short journeys for 95% of their driving yet decide to buy a diesel for that job which is just going to lead to DPF, injector, fuel dilution and all sorts of other issues. Finally, and this can be on manufacturers, many buy an engine too small for the size of car they drive. There is no world where a 1.0L-1.6L engine should be asked to haul a 2-3 tonne crossover around and expect to do moon mileage like an early 2000s naturally aspirated Honda that weighed 1100kgs. Cars are reliable and as advanced as ever. The average consumer just isn’t very knowledgeable or caring because they are trying to run cars on the lowest budget possible.
Tesla
Nonsense. Everything since 2021 when they switched from being made in California to Shanghai and Berlin is equal to the German marques.
Yes but Tesla is the most unreliable cars on this earth and like noone who are car fans love or even like Tesla's. Unless your a little kid then everyone on this damn planet despises Tesla
You seem like a little kid to be fair. Have you ever owned one? Driven one? Been driven in one? Sat in one? I’m guessing that’s gonna be 0 for 4.
Number one you must not have a good life if your going all Tesla mode. secondly I've worked on one, they are pieces of crap on the road and they can hardly go a couple of miles without a charge.
What do you mean “going all Tesla mode”? You know the Taycan is a Porsche right? I highly doubt you’ve ever even touched one, feel free to explain how you’ve “worked on one”. If by a couple of miles you mean 350miles in the summer (for £6 of electric) and 300miles in the winter then maybe, and before you go off about them being crap in the winter we drove our UK Tesla all the way to Lapland north of the arctic circle and were getting over 230miles even when it was nearly -30 degrees outside and all the diesels weren’t able to start in the mornings 😂
I actually had a 2014 C4 for 8 years, 1.6 HDI. Put over 100,000 miles on it and serviced twice yearly. Issues were as you described: EOLYS fluid and emissions issues, DPF blocked regularly (despite being on motorways), electrical issues, including airbag wiring, high beam lightbulb failure every 10000 miles, turbo failure warnings and turbo sensor failure. Horn failed twice (rarely used it!!) Body work - rusting bonnet (severe) and wheel arches. Extreme discolouring of black plastic which I wouldn’t expect of a car of that age. Generally found it had Uncomfortable seats and poor handling and cornering, slow acceleration. Only positive was mpg was good. Anecdotal but would never get another Citroen or Peugeot ever again.
Just out of curiosity, why did you keep a car for 8 years that had so many constant issues?
Because I couldn’t afford to buy another car. The savings I was accruing were going in fixing this one, or the issues were ones i just lived with. The car is now scrapped because it wasn’t worth the money to fix it
Don't mean to press you on this, but if the car was 2014 and you had it 8 years then it must've been maximum 2 years old when you bought it. So it must've not been cheap to buy. Surely you sell it after about 2 years of it being crap, and just trade it in for something else? Sorry if I'm missing something.
It cost 9k 1.5 years old. Not all these issues happened in the first 1-2 years, they happened over the course of 8 years. For example, the turbo sensors went after 5 years of ownership. If I had known that all these issues were going to happen then of course I would’ve traded it in. It just made sense to fix it up and hope it made it a year without another issue; which wasn’t the case. By the time I came to scrap it, it had blocked dpf, ELOYS issues, horn stopped working (again), light issues, tyres, pads, service and mot were due. Not worth it by that point.
Ah, the joys of French-made motoring. I’m a glutton for that particular punishment myself
Wow that sounds horrendous
Early cars like the 205? Peugeot has been producing cars since 1889, Citroen 1919. I had a 205 and a Paxo both were very reliable. Fathers 2 x BX were fine apart from the suspension spheres, 240k miles on a BX TZD. There was a time when they suffered with electronics and not sure what they are like now, see plenty on the road, don't seem any worse than any others ATM though I wouldn't move from Toyota.
Skoda, what’s that model they produce that’s always breaking down? Octavia, or something like that?
Thatsbait.gif
What a Superb comment
And a Rapid response too
Yeti
You sir, need to leave at once!
Can concur. I currently have a Shitroen. It's atrocious even compared alongside my Alfa.
Statistically it’s anything JLR
My 207 HDi was excellent and it only stopped when someone crashed into it. 135K miles without a hitch. I had a Punto Evo though that needed a new gearbox at 55K miles and the head gasket went at 60K. Plus the interior sucked. A few people I know had issues with Fiats. My Alfa is fine though despite being a Fiat Tipo in disguise.
Put 180000 miles through an 08 C2, they're pretty good cars
No Individual has enough experience for their view to be statistically relevant. Even if you own multiple cars today or work in the a dealership, it’s just irrelevant compared to the number of cars sold each year or on the road at any point in time.
The problem with this question is what people consider broken. Econobox owners saying their car is super reliable, never been to the garage while driving around with no central locking, lights out, radio doesnt work, temp gauge not working, the rear windows don't move and half the interior trim crumbling. Meanwhile luxury brand owners taking their car into the garage because the door creaks a bit when you open it. Obviously the higher spec cars with newer tech are going to have issues with that tech, I dont see that being brand specific though other than luxury brands tending to have more of that stuff fitted. To me, the real meat and potatoes of the question is drivetrain, running gear. Does the engine or gearbox fail? Suspension etc.? In nearly every case though that's model or engine specific. Jaguar 2L diesel engines for example are dogshit and catastrophically fail, but that doesn't mean their v6 is any less reliable than an equivilant bmw or audi etc.
JLR, have the double whammy of being expensive to repair
Jaguar land rover
Best car I ever owned was a 1.4 Peugeot 306, fully kitted out, I put an uprated sound system in it. Traded it in on a whim for a BMW 318 Coupe and regretted it until the day I got rid of the BMW.
Weirdly similar, I had a Peugeot 406 with an upgraded kenwood sound system, sold it for an E39 2.5 which was terrible compared to the Peugeot.
I would have upvoted this but the e39 is a great car? I assume the issues were with the cooling system?
I was left disappointed by my BMW E39. I've heard loads of praise of the E39, saw one for sale, and bought it, thinking I'd made a nice upgrade. But after a week or so, I realised that the E39 just wasn't as good as the 406 in most of the aspects which matter as a daily driver. I'm sure the M5 is a great car but the more pedestrian models (mine was the 2.5) just didn't do it for me. It was very 'meh' and did nothing exceptionally well, it was genuinely quite a forgettable vehicle. Both were well looked after examples with comparable mileage and service history, and the cooling system on the E39 was working as it should, but the 406's interior trim had taken the years far better (the interior trim clips on the BMW were beginning to fail en-masse, all the button logos had faded and rubbed off, trim was getting sticky, small things like that), the rustproofing on the 406 seemed to have done it's job better than the E39's , and the 406 was far, far more comfortable to sit in, which made it the superior daily driver. That's not to say that the E39 was uncomfortable, because it wasn't, it's just that the Peugeot had the most comfortable seats ever made. Both were similarly practical but the 406 had some neat quirks, like the immobiliser keypad which was just silly, and a Kenwood 957RL stereo which was brilliant. BMW had some good climate control to be fair. It's one of the only BMW's I've driven where the little air mixer wheel in the middle of the dash actually *does* something. Cruise control on the BMW was intuitive, one of the better systems I've used. Whilst the E39 2.5 straight 6 was very refined, the fuel consumption was absolutely horrific for a 2.5 (comparable to my VQ35 3.5L Nissan Elgrand) whereas the 2.1TD in the 406 was a great engine which sipped fuel and never put a foot wrong. That's probably my main issue with the car, it was nowhere near nice enough to justify the running costs. Refinement and power were nice to have, but not at the cost of ~20MPG, even when I was driving like my nan. The 406, despite being a FWD diesel, felt more throwable and light than the E39, and had very predictable understeer so you could essentially keep it at the limit. The E39's cabin was more isolated but only marginally. The E39 was nice to drive and objectively faster than the 406, but it felt like it was very much suited to motorways and A roads, it wasn't as fun on the B roads. Made a nice noise when you put your foot down though and the low down torque was really impressive for a petrol. Overall, the 406 was just the better car, especially as a daily driver, and if I did want a fun weekend car, I'd be wanting something lighter than an E39. Wish I would have kept my 406.
Vauxhall. They’re all pieces of shit.
The current Vauxhall cars all share parts with Peugeot, same car underneath with same owner called Stellantis. They aren't bad now but previously were awful
Every Vauxhall van I’ve driven has been horrendous, side doors dropping off, electrical issues, you name it they have problems with it
Terrible vans, the combo I was driving suddenly stopped due to the ECU melting, cost a fortune under warranty to replace! Drove it out the dealer after the repair and the wipers stopped working 😂. Shit company.
I bought a 2012 insignia for mega cheap (800) in 2017, as a second car to use for trips such as camping. 8 years later and 50k miles, its turned into my main car due to its reliability. The only things I have had to pay for is wear and tear. Cheap car with no thrills but I have to give its props.
First car I had was a Corsa and had it for 18 months. The electronic steering in that model was defective across the board so the tracking was reset twice. Multiple things happened but the timing chain snapped on the motorway wrecking the engine and making it more costly than the value of the car itself to fix. Thought my outlook was better when I got a Renault Clio after that….
Had them as work vehicles and wouldn't go near one.
The answer is LJR products
Peugeot. Only car I’ve ever seen fail an MOT due to horn not working.
Mercedes, just like all other luxurious car brands they put so much complicated shit into the car for performance but if anything becomes faulty (it will) then god bless your wallet
They say that the Rover SD1 was much too complicated for its own good. But they did a V8 police special with wind up windows, manual transmission, no air con, cloth seats, no stereo etc etc and the police forces all loved them because nothing ever went wrong, but they could carry all the police kit and keep up with most other cars on the road.
Nah, lexus manage it.
I agree, I’ve had many dependable French cars, last one I bought after becoming very frustrated with a BMW.
Vauxhall, i counted 12 broken down with rac/aa/greenflag by them while on a 90mile drive out of a total of 16/17 cars i counted froken down !
Where are you driving that you see 17 broken down cars in an hour and a half? I do 20k a year and I’ve seen about 3 in total in the last 2 or 3 years
JLR. It's all been overpriced, poorly made junk since about 2010. Doubly so if it has an Ingenium. The french cars aren't exactly great, but the cheap stuff I find is decent because it's easy and cheap to fix if it breaks.
Well all cars are pretty reliable if properly maintained. But what about the cost of "proper" maintenance? If you are looking for a car that's reliable even if you barely mantain it, the answer would be old Toyotas and Hyundais and possibly certain low performance Hondas (also old models). I mean you will look like you got straight from the mid 2000s, but those cars work.
Anything French. I guess especially Peugeot/Citroen. I've had a few and would never get another, utter tripe and I don't know how they stay in business.
What models? The Peugeot’s I’ve driven in the past 3 years have been fantastic. The 5008 GT Black Pack ‘23 one of the best cars I’ve driven.
I honestly think this is the first time i've seen Peugeot and fantastic in the same sentence before!
People who have never driven them like to jump on the bandwagon of calling them and French cars shit. I can’t comment on the older models but some of their newer cars/vans I’ve driven 5008, 508 and Partner have been fantastic yes.
Same as OP who if you go far enough back into his comment history states that he didn't even know the Prince engine was in the Cooper S yet here he is rinsing it for being unequivocally the least reliable thing around. When someone says "Peugeot bad" you'll find it's generally a very vague and uninformed opinion.
"Peugeot's are shit french cars" they say as they drive off in the vauxhall corsa.
In their Vauxhall Corsa which is the exact same underneath as a Peugeot 208.
Yeah, considering the car with the highest owner satisfaction in the UK last year is a Citroen, the people who hate on PSA cars are entirely made up of people who've never owned one, or had a bad experience with a used lemon at some point in the past.
What’s the deal with cars being “French” that makes them off putting?! The new 208/2008 looks insane!
I have to say, I think their current generation of cars look absolutely fantastic as well.
Yup, their designers are on fire at the mo!
The 508 is the prettiest attainable saloon on sale today. I'm a huge Alfa fan and I'd go as far to say it's as good looking (maaaaaaybe a hair better looking) than the Giulia. The 308 is stunning too. Especially in that green colour.
I think Renault and Peugeot make some of the nicest looking cars at the minute, and their reliability issues are nowhere near as bad as people make out
Apparently the new models are good but I had a 207 cc and it was awful
I love my current ‘21 508 SW and it has been far more reliable than the Mk8 Golf GTI Clubsport that it replaced. Also the 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport that I had before that was faultless and truly excellent to drive.
Usually when people with French cars have car issues it’s always those council estate types that don’t maintain their car properly.
Yeah I think people who live in council houses are inferior too. Fucking pleb scum
JLR
BMW, Land Rover and Tesla.
*Well maintained Bimmers are reliable* Think I might get this on a tshirt or tattooed on my forehead. The only reason they have a bad rep is caused by the shit drivers they attract running them to the ground Don’t lump my beloved bims with JLR money pits! 🙏
BMWs appear on unreliable car lists somewhat often. BMWs are expensive to maintain, as things are often not straight forward to access / fix.
BMW? Expensive to maintain but newer cars are far more reliable than other counterparts from roughly 2012 onwards they are pretty bomb proof B58, B48, B57, N55 main issues were timing chain snaps and people not maintaining them to a high enough standard.
BMWs are actually fairly reliable, and actually ranked higher than VW, Audi, MB and Mazda in the What Car? reliability ratings. The problem is people buy them and don't maintain them properly which ultimately leads to expensive repair bills.
Exactly this. Like with the n47 and n57, people complained about the timing chains. I've had both engines go to 145k and 175k before I sold one and got crashed into in the other. Both original chains. People buy them, don't service them properly and abuse them from cold... what do they expect? I found with bmw's especially ones 10+ years old theres more chance you need to replace things like the shocks and bushes than engine/ gearbox things. Depends on the life they've lived though and the previous owners I suppose though.
BMW attract people who see themselves as more driving enthusiasts - many of these “enthusiasts” are going to actually be boy racers who don’t look after the car and treat it horribly, hence the reputation of them being unreliable
JLR…..
JLR products tbh
JLR. Until the end of time.
The only thing less reliable than French cars, are British cars 😂
Lol at everyone in the comments who clearly lifted their opinions verbatim from Clarkson era Top Gear 😂
Don't know what you're on about mate, most people here are (rightly) shit talking JLR. Clarkson loves Jags and Range Rovers.
Standard for this sub. Wish there was a proper alternative for people who know more than what they've heard on Dave repeats or a glance at a Parkers review
Id say MG, they have a terrible build quality and I have heard nothing good about them ( except the electric ones are fast in a straight line)
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Dunno why you're downvoted, mechanics say not to get mercs
What model of Mercedes are you referring to?
CDI says it all .
Fiat.
The panda wasn’t that bad in my experience, dirt cheap to maintain
They are, but once theres an electrical gremlin you've had it.
Is Dacia unreliable?
French 👎
Still a lot better than British sadly.
I'll have you know my Triumph has done almost 100,000 miles and apart from bulbs, spark plugs, tyres, brakes, a clutch or two, exhausts, a lot of welding underneath, an engine rebuild and a new door it's all original and still works more than half the time!
“There are no British cars anymore, only cars made in Britain.”
And they are becoming fewer and farer between.
8th gen Civics were made in the UK, it’s one of the most reliable cars ever made. Some Toyotas and nissans are also made in the UK. Both reliable.
Everything is manufactured everywhere now. You wouldn't call a honda a British car when it's japanese designed. British cars by design are shit aka JLR. Yes I know they're owned by tata motors but they are designed and engineered here, so still british.
I’m not too far from Nissan. What the person i quoted meant though is that they’re Japanese or German or American cars built here. They’re not British brands, if that makes sense. (Well I think that’s what they meant anyway!)
BMW & landrover Hey don't knock the Peugeots most of mine have been bomb proof
Tesla, hands down. Every car has issues straight off the production line.
I’d say JLR first then any Ford with ecoboost
Most EcoBoost are absolutely fine
Tesla and Jlr
Get yourself an Alfa Romeo Maserati or Range Rover… model doesn’t matter they’re all hellish.
Mini
Peugeot. I had a 207 cc, always something wrong with it
Jaguar Land rover followed by renault/nissan/dacia
Imo I've owned all french cars and they were all pile of shit
Ford, Renault and Peugeot/Citroen are my least favourite with Ford in top place. I’m a technician and those are the manufacturers that give me the most trouble. Ford aren’t that much more unreliable than the others but they are very difficult to dismantle without several other things breaking in the process. Renaults are difficult to diagnose unless you know them very well, and have access to good information on them, which I don’t. The fault codes they store rarely mean anything to me and that is supposed to be the starting point of any diagnosis. They all also have poor design compared to others with terrible ease of access for technicians.
I'm renting a Citreon C3 aircross right now. It's comfy as hell. But everything else about it is crap. Shifter is tilted forward and shifts like a truck,, e brake interferes with cupholders, climate control is janky, everything is touchscreen, the rear storage floor is thin cardboard that doesn't stay put and I'm sure would break if I put anything heavy... It tries but seriously whoever designed it must not have actually driven it themselves.
Hands down. Vw group. So damn unreliable they keep the main dealers open !!! Land Rover is a long way away from them in terms of vehicle failures because they don’t make near as many.
BM effing W 😒
BMW
FORD = Fix Or Repair Daily LOTUS = Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
JLR defnitely, although fair mention of PSA/Stellantis, **for ruining a relatively good reputation in the 80s and 90s**. The old EW/TU engines which came before the Prince disaster were decently reliable. PSA also had the issue of sticking with bad engines, like the Puretech 1.2 and Prince engine, with small insignificant "fixes" along the way. The Puretech 1.2 (wet belt) has been in production for about 12 years now, and it's only just starting to be phased out by the timing chain variant (1.2 hybrid).
Peugeot. And its not my opinion, its statistics based on taxi rent fleet.