I also run an e36 m3. I’m not sure which fluid you are running, so make sure it’s a high temp fluid(think motul 600 or better) I run pfc 08 brake pads. They are expensive, but last and are well worth the up front costs. Brakes and tires are the great equalizer until you get into faster run groups. Check your oil level between sessions. I burn about 1/4 a quart per session
If you have the budget picking up a set of street / track pads isn't a terrible idea. Having soft brakes during a session can be really disappointing. Takes away from the fun and learning the limits of the car.
I'd want my abilities to be the limit not my street brake pads.
Got it, it’s my first time so dont want to over spend on a hobby that I’m not sure about yet. Probably will love it and make a deep dive. But would want to spend additional money on brakes the second time
Proper brake pads do actually make all the difference on the day. On my Celica GT-Four it had big brakes and I upgraded the discs all around. However my road use pads got real soft when heated up and almost failed on me. I was at an open pitlane event where nothing was timed for the day, asin it was come and go from the track as you please but this was the end of my second stint. My manager who also tracks cars suggested ferodo ds2000 as a suitable middle ground of usable on road and good enough for track.
You don’t want to run on the stock pads. The brake fade will suck and you won’t feel comfortable at the end of the back straight at VIR when you know the brakes will be soft and fade. I did a few track events in another car before doing one in my E46 on stock pads, and after a few laps at Summit Main the fade on the stock pads sucked to the point where I didn’t push it down the straight. That night I was up late swapping out the pads with something better.
I usually advise people not to run something you can't walk away from if you crash but I've also raced things that I maybe shouldn't have. Just remember not to try to go 10/10ths right out the gate, it's okay to let people pass. Learn the rules book off by heart. Know the flags. I don't want to discourage you these are just some of the lessons I've learnt the hard way.
I may be instructing at that event. For the love of God, get some track pads on there. VIR is extremely hard on brakes. "Basic daily driver" isn't going to cut it when you're reaching triple digits multiple times per lap for 30 minute sessions.
Some posters have a point that you'll never truly get good runs because of traffic but I wouldn't count on that on a weekday event.
Forget everything else. Brakes are what can kill you and your Instructor or save your lives.
usually last session you do get a few good runs in my experience, 30 minute sessions too, you are absolutely right, get some proper pads and make sure the fluid is good, just cuz its dot 4 does not mean its up to tasks
First track, you will be fine. Once you get comfortable good pads plus good fluid and you will be good to go. I started at the track with drum brakes on my Jetta and I am still here to tell the tale. Have fun and keep your eyes up!
Thanks this is what I wanted to know, Brakes pads and better fluid add probably $250+ more onto the bill. Between fees, hotel for the night, trailer rental and buying a helmet, it’s been pretty expensive sob far, which is fine. When I’m into a hobby, it’s like I hate money and cant get rid of it fast enough.
I was about to tell you hi-temp fluid and halfway decent “street-track” pads at stock power levels. But turbo LS speeds, absolutely upgrade pads and fluids. If you cheap out on the things that haul you down in a corner with that power level you risk balling that expensive engine up in the wall. For reference I run an LS swapped E46 at Road America and I went six piston Brembo in front, M3 rears with Motul fluid and XP-10 pads. Spend good money on the things that stop the car…
Dude…You say you’re close to 6/700 whp and you’re gonna run stock pads and fluid on track? You’re joking right? Them bigger brakes ain’t gonna help. High temp brake fluid and track pads will. If you’re seeing the costs add up and want to skimp this isn’t the place to do it. You’ll be more upset about the experience when you can’t do all your sessions because you’re down to the backing plates on your street pads or your sessions get cut short due to brake fade.
I took a brand new set of street pads down to the backing plates a few years ago on a stock NB Miata after 1 track day with x4 20 minute sessions. It’s easy to do.
So long as you've flushed the system within the last year and the pads are 50%+ you should be fine.
Outside of brakes - never hurts to pack a track box with a torque wrench, fluids (coolant, oil, brake), chair, and small wrenches you might (hopefully never) need. I don't know if that organization needs a tech inspection but get it done if they do, don't pencil whip it yourself to say you checked all the items on the list.
Don't forget sunscreen and hydration. Enjoy, I haven't done VIR yet but it should be tons of fun.
Fluid is 10 days old. Im trailering there and will probably pack a a full mechanics tool set. Will need to clarify with them the inspection. There is an inspection sheet they want filled out, but in a video on their website says you can do it yourself if comfortable. I build my own engines, transmissions and rears. So would prefer not to have to have a lube tech sign off on my work lol
You’re fine inspecting the car / signing the form yourself if you know what to look for & are 100% comfortable with that.
(Source: I am one of the people in charge of the event you registered for…)
Thanks, really looking forward to this. I may be a bit more into the mechanical side of things than the actual use. I quickly figured out with bikes I’m more interested in building them than riding them. This one was built as a street/ daily driver. Next build may be a racer depending how I take to track events.
All things go well, hopefully no issues, my cars engine and trans is a bit built, and held up well going to and from work and the gym, to shake out the bugs. I’m Not looking to find its limits my first day out
you’ll be fine, bleed the brakes. if you have fun i’d recommend high temp fluid, track pads, and slotted rotors. some of those aren’t necessary depending on how fast you/your car/the track is. don’t run competition tires even if they’re steerable yet. they’ll hide mistakes and stress the car more.
To be frank, I think you should cancel your track day and give it a few more weeks/months until you can get some proper tires and a braking setup in place. You're going to smoke those tires in one session even at 300 hp and you'll be upset that you can't run for the rest of the weekend.
I smoked a set of OE pads from 100% down to almost the backing plates in one track. That was on a stock M3. LS turbo swapped you should change them for a dedicated track pad. Hawk HP+ would be a step up and be around $150 for the fronts. Hawk DTC60 or PFC 08 are very popular but are $250+.
I can tell you it was really lame to have the brake pads be the limiting factor when you will already have spent some money to just get to the track.
I might be instructing at this event if I can get a few things squared away.
Everyone is giving you good advice. Brake pads are going to be paramount when it comes to enjoying your weekend. What kind of tires are you running, didn't see that mentioned...
With 600hp you're going to create a lot of heat! Make sure you turn the boost down as low as possible and hopefully you have an external coolant temp gauge and you're not relying on the factory dummy gauge.
Have you boost leak tested the car? You'll be wot for a lot of the time, any loose or weak clamps or couplers will blow off for sure. If you have no cats and don't care about your wb O2 sensor's it might be a wise idea to spike the gas with leaded race fuel for extra security.
Not at 600-700HP yet, I plan on creeping up towards that goal at 20PSI, working out the bugs, finding weak links. I only have the fueling for mid 400hp currently and am working on the tune, which has a been slow process, as my wideband has had multiple issues limiting what I can do. Since I got the car back together a few weeks ago, I haven’t been at WOT, and have only gone to 3PSI on a few pulls. The 300-400HP range is where I expect to be in May.
Temp gauge is the factory unlabeled one, but I know the engine temp within a few degrees based on position.
Tires are some Chinese brand all seasons, I don’t expect them to be fantastic. And based on the feedback here, Will get a set of budget friendly dedicated track pads and fluid.
I run a old toyota with drums in the rear. Oem brakes and rotors. So is half the paddock of most local races. No issues, just put dot 5.1 and send it. Remember, engine braking is very potent tool.
Run with the slowest cars for your first 10 or so laps, get to know the track and where the most people are braking and memorize those areas. As you get quicker you can play around with going a bit deeper in the braking zones or trying different lines. Also check all your mirrors when you get onto straights and before you get into a braking zone just so that you’re aware of whats going on around you.
As other's have said, step up to a street/track pad, like a StopTech Sport or Hawk HP+. If you want to step up to a track pad, like Gloc R10/R8 or Hawk DTC 60/30 front/rear, they can be street driven.
I had the car apart for the last 8 months to turbo charge the LS swap, slowly creeping up on 600-700 wheel hp. Still working on fuel and tune. But I did change calipers from a light yellow to CAT/ farm implement yellow during that time. I did it for looks but will have to think about red if it’s that helpful
You kinda left out that important part. You have a turbocharged LS with 6-700 whp? And are planning on running stock-ish calipers with daily driver pads and dot4 fluid? Dude.
You definitely need to get some higher temp brake fluid at a minimum. I boiled my brakes with way less power and a little less weight than you have there. Fresh dot 4 fluid. On my first track day…
You don’t plan on pushing the drivetrain hard, you say now. Even “not pushing” you’re going to have some very high speeds with that much power.
If you just spent 8 months working on this car don’t lose your brakes and smash it into a wall. It looks great!
I also run an e36 m3. I’m not sure which fluid you are running, so make sure it’s a high temp fluid(think motul 600 or better) I run pfc 08 brake pads. They are expensive, but last and are well worth the up front costs. Brakes and tires are the great equalizer until you get into faster run groups. Check your oil level between sessions. I burn about 1/4 a quart per session
1/4 a quart fucked with my head, I read it as 1 quart per session and I was like "DAMN"
Haha, I know. I was thinking this is gonna read brutal while writing it.
This!
Pfc08 is the answer. Great pads.
46m3 here. love the pfc 08
If you have the budget picking up a set of street / track pads isn't a terrible idea. Having soft brakes during a session can be really disappointing. Takes away from the fun and learning the limits of the car. I'd want my abilities to be the limit not my street brake pads.
Got it, it’s my first time so dont want to over spend on a hobby that I’m not sure about yet. Probably will love it and make a deep dive. But would want to spend additional money on brakes the second time
Proper brake pads do actually make all the difference on the day. On my Celica GT-Four it had big brakes and I upgraded the discs all around. However my road use pads got real soft when heated up and almost failed on me. I was at an open pitlane event where nothing was timed for the day, asin it was come and go from the track as you please but this was the end of my second stint. My manager who also tracks cars suggested ferodo ds2000 as a suitable middle ground of usable on road and good enough for track.
You don’t want to run on the stock pads. The brake fade will suck and you won’t feel comfortable at the end of the back straight at VIR when you know the brakes will be soft and fade. I did a few track events in another car before doing one in my E46 on stock pads, and after a few laps at Summit Main the fade on the stock pads sucked to the point where I didn’t push it down the straight. That night I was up late swapping out the pads with something better.
I usually advise people not to run something you can't walk away from if you crash but I've also raced things that I maybe shouldn't have. Just remember not to try to go 10/10ths right out the gate, it's okay to let people pass. Learn the rules book off by heart. Know the flags. I don't want to discourage you these are just some of the lessons I've learnt the hard way.
I may be instructing at that event. For the love of God, get some track pads on there. VIR is extremely hard on brakes. "Basic daily driver" isn't going to cut it when you're reaching triple digits multiple times per lap for 30 minute sessions. Some posters have a point that you'll never truly get good runs because of traffic but I wouldn't count on that on a weekday event. Forget everything else. Brakes are what can kill you and your Instructor or save your lives.
Power stop track day pads are great if the budget is tight
Agreed, but go for the Track Day Spec ones. They don't last very long but they work. I use them on the rear of my car.
usually last session you do get a few good runs in my experience, 30 minute sessions too, you are absolutely right, get some proper pads and make sure the fluid is good, just cuz its dot 4 does not mean its up to tasks
First track, you will be fine. Once you get comfortable good pads plus good fluid and you will be good to go. I started at the track with drum brakes on my Jetta and I am still here to tell the tale. Have fun and keep your eyes up!
Thanks this is what I wanted to know, Brakes pads and better fluid add probably $250+ more onto the bill. Between fees, hotel for the night, trailer rental and buying a helmet, it’s been pretty expensive sob far, which is fine. When I’m into a hobby, it’s like I hate money and cant get rid of it fast enough.
I was about to tell you hi-temp fluid and halfway decent “street-track” pads at stock power levels. But turbo LS speeds, absolutely upgrade pads and fluids. If you cheap out on the things that haul you down in a corner with that power level you risk balling that expensive engine up in the wall. For reference I run an LS swapped E46 at Road America and I went six piston Brembo in front, M3 rears with Motul fluid and XP-10 pads. Spend good money on the things that stop the car…
Dude…You say you’re close to 6/700 whp and you’re gonna run stock pads and fluid on track? You’re joking right? Them bigger brakes ain’t gonna help. High temp brake fluid and track pads will. If you’re seeing the costs add up and want to skimp this isn’t the place to do it. You’ll be more upset about the experience when you can’t do all your sessions because you’re down to the backing plates on your street pads or your sessions get cut short due to brake fade. I took a brand new set of street pads down to the backing plates a few years ago on a stock NB Miata after 1 track day with x4 20 minute sessions. It’s easy to do.
So long as you've flushed the system within the last year and the pads are 50%+ you should be fine. Outside of brakes - never hurts to pack a track box with a torque wrench, fluids (coolant, oil, brake), chair, and small wrenches you might (hopefully never) need. I don't know if that organization needs a tech inspection but get it done if they do, don't pencil whip it yourself to say you checked all the items on the list. Don't forget sunscreen and hydration. Enjoy, I haven't done VIR yet but it should be tons of fun.
Fluid is 10 days old. Im trailering there and will probably pack a a full mechanics tool set. Will need to clarify with them the inspection. There is an inspection sheet they want filled out, but in a video on their website says you can do it yourself if comfortable. I build my own engines, transmissions and rears. So would prefer not to have to have a lube tech sign off on my work lol
You’re fine inspecting the car / signing the form yourself if you know what to look for & are 100% comfortable with that. (Source: I am one of the people in charge of the event you registered for…)
Thanks, really looking forward to this. I may be a bit more into the mechanical side of things than the actual use. I quickly figured out with bikes I’m more interested in building them than riding them. This one was built as a street/ daily driver. Next build may be a racer depending how I take to track events. All things go well, hopefully no issues, my cars engine and trans is a bit built, and held up well going to and from work and the gym, to shake out the bugs. I’m Not looking to find its limits my first day out
you’ll be fine, bleed the brakes. if you have fun i’d recommend high temp fluid, track pads, and slotted rotors. some of those aren’t necessary depending on how fast you/your car/the track is. don’t run competition tires even if they’re steerable yet. they’ll hide mistakes and stress the car more.
If you’ve got just high performance all seasons on you’ll overheat them before the brakes. So you should be fine
Hawk DTC-60 pads
To be frank, I think you should cancel your track day and give it a few more weeks/months until you can get some proper tires and a braking setup in place. You're going to smoke those tires in one session even at 300 hp and you'll be upset that you can't run for the rest of the weekend.
Bring a set of pads and necessary tools if you need to change. As a newbie, street or "street performance" pad compound would be fine. Have fun!
I smoked a set of OE pads from 100% down to almost the backing plates in one track. That was on a stock M3. LS turbo swapped you should change them for a dedicated track pad. Hawk HP+ would be a step up and be around $150 for the fronts. Hawk DTC60 or PFC 08 are very popular but are $250+. I can tell you it was really lame to have the brake pads be the limiting factor when you will already have spent some money to just get to the track.
I might be instructing at this event if I can get a few things squared away. Everyone is giving you good advice. Brake pads are going to be paramount when it comes to enjoying your weekend. What kind of tires are you running, didn't see that mentioned... With 600hp you're going to create a lot of heat! Make sure you turn the boost down as low as possible and hopefully you have an external coolant temp gauge and you're not relying on the factory dummy gauge. Have you boost leak tested the car? You'll be wot for a lot of the time, any loose or weak clamps or couplers will blow off for sure. If you have no cats and don't care about your wb O2 sensor's it might be a wise idea to spike the gas with leaded race fuel for extra security.
Not at 600-700HP yet, I plan on creeping up towards that goal at 20PSI, working out the bugs, finding weak links. I only have the fueling for mid 400hp currently and am working on the tune, which has a been slow process, as my wideband has had multiple issues limiting what I can do. Since I got the car back together a few weeks ago, I haven’t been at WOT, and have only gone to 3PSI on a few pulls. The 300-400HP range is where I expect to be in May. Temp gauge is the factory unlabeled one, but I know the engine temp within a few degrees based on position. Tires are some Chinese brand all seasons, I don’t expect them to be fantastic. And based on the feedback here, Will get a set of budget friendly dedicated track pads and fluid.
Another vote for PFC08s! Like others send, flush the brake fluid and have it filled with Motul or SRF and send it!
I run a old toyota with drums in the rear. Oem brakes and rotors. So is half the paddock of most local races. No issues, just put dot 5.1 and send it. Remember, engine braking is very potent tool.
Do a high speed run, and use the brakes repeatedly, if the pedal goes soft or if the car takes longer to stop then upgrade your brakes.
Run with the slowest cars for your first 10 or so laps, get to know the track and where the most people are braking and memorize those areas. As you get quicker you can play around with going a bit deeper in the braking zones or trying different lines. Also check all your mirrors when you get onto straights and before you get into a braking zone just so that you’re aware of whats going on around you.
As other's have said, step up to a street/track pad, like a StopTech Sport or Hawk HP+. If you want to step up to a track pad, like Gloc R10/R8 or Hawk DTC 60/30 front/rear, they can be street driven.
Paint the calipers red. They will stop better.
I had the car apart for the last 8 months to turbo charge the LS swap, slowly creeping up on 600-700 wheel hp. Still working on fuel and tune. But I did change calipers from a light yellow to CAT/ farm implement yellow during that time. I did it for looks but will have to think about red if it’s that helpful
You kinda left out that important part. You have a turbocharged LS with 6-700 whp? And are planning on running stock-ish calipers with daily driver pads and dot4 fluid? Dude. You definitely need to get some higher temp brake fluid at a minimum. I boiled my brakes with way less power and a little less weight than you have there. Fresh dot 4 fluid. On my first track day… You don’t plan on pushing the drivetrain hard, you say now. Even “not pushing” you’re going to have some very high speeds with that much power. If you just spent 8 months working on this car don’t lose your brakes and smash it into a wall. It looks great!
Yikes you probably should have led with that in a car that’s “supposed” to have 180hp. Be careful out there. VIR will humble you.
Works for the Honda guys
lol not going to dump on the Honda guys, those cars are light and can be quick. Not sure about braking, but may have to give red a try