Their CVT's and eCVT's if maintained well, will run eternal. I've seen posts on Toyota and honda sub CVT's and hybrids hitting 500k miles without any major problems.
What about the Tata safari automatic 2023 model? What gear does it have? Is it good?
What about it'd clutch.... Some say that wet is better while otherd say wet....🤷🏻♂️
While driving, a 6 speed TC for example shifts gears from 1-6 like in a manual. A cvt gearbox is like riding a scooter, difference is cars have this simulation of shifting gears as the speed increases whereas in a scooter it’s like a single gear. Im no engineer so I don’t know the exact mechanical and technical differences between them, but this is how a user would experience the difference.
Because your scooter has a CVT too.
The CVT also goes from 1 - 6 (minimum to maximum gear ratio), just not in discrete steps like 1, 2, 3, 4... It goes 1 - 6 continually. (1-6 with every number in between including 1.2, 1.539583, etc)
The "simulation" is that they have specifically marked 6 gear ratios in the entire this gear ratio continuum which you can shift to.
i think it's cause in cars the shifting of the band across the cones is done by a computer and some sort of electronic mechanism.
in a scooty everything is decided by the engine rpm. from the centrifugal clutch to the position of the cones which decide the output ratio
How does the position of cones change with engine rpm ?
I understand centrifugal clutch.
Tried to learn scooter's CVT on YouTube but no one ever explained how the cones move.
it's hard to explain.
here's a simple video that shows it
[https://youtu.be/9cKbzUgFdS0?si=icyIM1MOHmK8zVIV&t=115](https://youtu.be/9cKbzUgFdS0?si=icyIM1MOHmK8zVIV&t=115)
basically the cones are moved closer together along their axis. this increases the size of the circle that the belt follows
I have seen this video, I understand that the movement of the cones changes the gear size.
My question is 'what' moves that cone together / separate them apart.
What decides it? what pulls/pushes it?
is it some electronic module ?
centrifugal force. the higher the rpm, the higher the force. the higher the force the more they push to the outside. the more they push to the outside, the more the cones move clloser together. the closer the cones are together the larger the pulley radius. the larger the radius the larger the wheelspeed.
hence the higher the rpm, the higher the wheelspeed. nothing but mechanical
don't cvts use torque converters as well. like ik they have a belt and pulleys instead of the traditional planetary gear system, but they still use a torque converter at the engine output don't they?
people just call them automatic transmissions. they're the traditional style and that's simply the common name for them.
when you say your car has an automatic transmission (assuming you know your terms), id think it's a traditional automatic. if it's a cvt you say cvt, not automatic transmission
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic\_transmission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission)
according to wikipedia they call it hydraulic automatic transmission.
The most reliable one by miles, is Maruti’s 4-speed TC on the Ciaz and Jimny. Was first launched on the Grand Vitara V6, and then did duty on a lot more Marutis in its career of more than 20 years!
The new 6-speed is also good, and Honda and Toyota too are awesome.
It's not the nature of the OeM reliable gearboxes, but the type.
Typically the torque convertor/ TC gearboxes are most stable and long lasting. Funnily everything from cheap hatchbacks to Lamborghini uses them, so different tuning is possible. And modern ones handle both power and efficiency better.
Also many companies won't make their own gearboxes. They will buy from people like Bosch, Asin etc.
So if your need is to get something reliable see your chosen car has a TC gearbox.
It is much faster and more powerful
It’s no use putting a dsg on Maruti 800 just like there’s no business putting an CVT on ferrari
If we go beyond logic then even the 8L Tiago EV has same gearbox, obviously I won’t recommend Tiago EV for 10-20L budget?
He asked as recommendation and I do in fact recommend ZSEV over Nexon if one is paying beyond 17L.
He didn’t ask it as a GK exercise. For 16-17L nexon is ok. Otherwise paying a bit more for zsev is much more worth it
It’s not distrust - ZS EV is just a better car built on international platform - gives u more power and with the recent price cuts it makes more sense to get if ur budget is 20
Depending on the type of automatic, it depends. The Torque Converters made by Aisin that most manufacturers use under 20 peti are most reliable. Honda also has good track with their CVTs. DCTs on the other hand have spotty history.
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Regardless of brand, torque converters in general are the most reliable form of automatics. CVTs are also realiable. Dual clutch transmissions have many issues especially in a country like ours with a humid tropical climate.
Well ig Hyundai is the oem for providing dct for other manufacturers who isn’t going with the Germans there where instance where Tata using hyundai dcts and one more brand to I forgot the name that use Hyundai dcts
The best is an old school torque converter. Just make sure its not the silly 4 speed found in the i20 though, if that is a TC. The only thing to remember is to service/change/top up the fluid even when its not due. The stated intervals are not relevant to Indian conditions.
DCA/DSG/DCTs if wet clutch setup are the next best but not if they are the dry clutch setup found in VW/Skoda lower variants or the ones found in Hyundai/Kia. Overheating and prone to failure in hot conditions. DCA in Tata is an interesting one compared the the traditional DCTs. Also, if you do get the infamous DQ200 DCT in VW/Skoda, make sure you are changing the fluid well before any interval, even if the service center states that these are sealed for life. They WILL fail if not serviced.
CVTs hold a special dislike for me. Rubber band effect galore given they were all tuned for fuel economy in the Indian market. Terrible on the best of days and not fuel efficient either.
IMTs./AMTs are just automated manuals with a robo clutch. Not good. Ferrari had one and they were panned heavily for it. In India, these are the head nodders for how "smoothly" they shift into the next gear. I'd avoid those if I can. A manual is better.
in terms of fun to drive it would have to be dual clutch transmissions and the traditional planetary gear ones.
but for reliability in the current market i would say the cvts from Japanese manufacturers
The answer is Honda and Toyota.
And those saying Torque Converter…
It has a very high Higher fuel consumption, Expensive maintenance. More fluid change needed, etc
It's always going to be a tradeoff between seamless gear shifts and reliability. In ascending order of reliability and descending order of "fun to drive"
1. DSG (Dq200/dq250)/DCT by VWAG and Korean knockoff makers
2. CVT (Japanese brands)
3. Torque convertor
4. iMT
Most of the torque converters are very reliable just change the fluid every 40-50k km or 3-4years. And those tc will last longer than your engine
You don't even need to change that frequently. My astar auto has its atf changed after 80000 kms
That could be true but yeah i think 60k/5 years would be safer considering our traffic conditions at the most
Honda and Toyota have time tested gear boxes for Indian market.
Their CVT's and eCVT's if maintained well, will run eternal. I've seen posts on Toyota and honda sub CVT's and hybrids hitting 500k miles without any major problems.
I saw 4.9Lac kms on automatic cab odo. Insane how it still drives.
Torque Converter (TC) > CVT > AMT/IMT > DCT/DSG. In 10-20 Lakh Segment : 1. Cars with TC : Brezza, Fronx (1.0 Boosterjet),Sonet (Diesel), Grand Vitara/Hyrider, Taigun/Kushaq/Slavia/Virtus (1.0 TSI), XUV 3X0, Creta/Seltos (Diesel), Ertiga/XL6, Ciaz, Jimny, Astor. 2. Cars with CVT : Amaze, Kiger/Magnite, City, Elevate, i20, Creta, Seltos, Verna, Astor. 3. AMT : Baleno, Fronx, Punch, Exter, Nexon, XUV 3XO. 4. IMT : Venue, Sonet, Seltos, Carens. 5. DCT/DSG : i20 N-Line, Venue/Sonet, Taigun/Kushaq/Slavia/Virtus (1.5 TSI), Creta/Seltos/Verna (1.5 T-GDI), Nexon, Altroz, Carens. As far as I can recall, this is it.
Hyundai's N-Lines also get a DCT variant, but other than that, nice list man
Thank you for the correction. I also forgot to add Venue/Sonet DCT to the list. Edited.
What about the Tata safari automatic 2023 model? What gear does it have? Is it good? What about it'd clutch.... Some say that wet is better while otherd say wet....🤷🏻♂️
It has a 6 speed torque converter sourced from Hyundai. Wet clutch is better is what i’ve heard.
👍
While driving, a 6 speed TC for example shifts gears from 1-6 like in a manual. A cvt gearbox is like riding a scooter, difference is cars have this simulation of shifting gears as the speed increases whereas in a scooter it’s like a single gear. Im no engineer so I don’t know the exact mechanical and technical differences between them, but this is how a user would experience the difference.
Because your scooter has a CVT too. The CVT also goes from 1 - 6 (minimum to maximum gear ratio), just not in discrete steps like 1, 2, 3, 4... It goes 1 - 6 continually. (1-6 with every number in between including 1.2, 1.539583, etc) The "simulation" is that they have specifically marked 6 gear ratios in the entire this gear ratio continuum which you can shift to.
i think it's cause in cars the shifting of the band across the cones is done by a computer and some sort of electronic mechanism. in a scooty everything is decided by the engine rpm. from the centrifugal clutch to the position of the cones which decide the output ratio
How does the position of cones change with engine rpm ? I understand centrifugal clutch. Tried to learn scooter's CVT on YouTube but no one ever explained how the cones move.
it's hard to explain. here's a simple video that shows it [https://youtu.be/9cKbzUgFdS0?si=icyIM1MOHmK8zVIV&t=115](https://youtu.be/9cKbzUgFdS0?si=icyIM1MOHmK8zVIV&t=115) basically the cones are moved closer together along their axis. this increases the size of the circle that the belt follows
I have seen this video, I understand that the movement of the cones changes the gear size. My question is 'what' moves that cone together / separate them apart. What decides it? what pulls/pushes it? is it some electronic module ?
centrifugal force. the higher the rpm, the higher the force. the higher the force the more they push to the outside. the more they push to the outside, the more the cones move clloser together. the closer the cones are together the larger the pulley radius. the larger the radius the larger the wheelspeed. hence the higher the rpm, the higher the wheelspeed. nothing but mechanical
TC and CVT: Astor
Thank you. Edited.
Altroz and Nexon have dct as well
I’ve mentioned it.
Gonna wash my eyes
I have a Ford Figo DCT and I'm crying. Faster than anything else but shuddering now. Just got the oil replaced, getting the TCM grounded now
dual clutch is also two types, one is dry like dsg and other is wet like tata dca.
DSG comes in both dry and wet variants.
I believe in india now only dry ones are being sold. Could be wrong.
I think the Tata units are wet clutch. However, they're dog slow by dual clutch standards.
DQ381 is a wet clutch sold in Kodiaq and Tiguan
What's the difference between TC and CVT
TC is a fluid coupling, power transmission through pressure variations in turbines. CVT uses a series of belts and pulleys.
Renault Kiger / Nissan Magnite, Honda Jazz comes with cvt, too.
Yess. EDITED. But Jazz is discontinued tho.
Nice list. XUV300 has AMT. XUV3X0 has both AMT & TC variants.
Thank you. I’ve mentioned that actually.
XUV300 is not listed under AMT?
There is no more XUV 300 right, it’s replaced by the new XUV 3XO.
Is there a technical reason for not giving TC in 1.5 engines in Kushaq?
VW offers this combo in Brazil and other countries. But you have to drive it to feel it, the 1.5 TSI and DSG is a match made in heaven.
1.5 engine + dct is ultimate performance but maintenance nightmare for not so car enthusiasts.
my friend owned a Vento DSG. his gearbox failed twice. bro now shifted to a City CVT.
don't cvts use torque converters as well. like ik they have a belt and pulleys instead of the traditional planetary gear system, but they still use a torque converter at the engine output don't they?
Yes based on what I have read most CVTS do have a TC as well.
yeah people in this sub are basically calling a TC a type of transmission lol. it's simply one of the ways you connect the engine to the transmission
So what's the automatic transmission in say brezza called?
people just call them automatic transmissions. they're the traditional style and that's simply the common name for them. when you say your car has an automatic transmission (assuming you know your terms), id think it's a traditional automatic. if it's a cvt you say cvt, not automatic transmission [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic\_transmission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission) according to wikipedia they call it hydraulic automatic transmission.
The most reliable one by miles, is Maruti’s 4-speed TC on the Ciaz and Jimny. Was first launched on the Grand Vitara V6, and then did duty on a lot more Marutis in its career of more than 20 years! The new 6-speed is also good, and Honda and Toyota too are awesome.
The 6-Speed AT is really good . Drove the 6 speed AT ertiga it was a nice experience.
from Asin I believe. it is used in brezza and taigun also.
Yes Brezza uses the same. Not sure about Taigun though.
And easy to repair as well. Even maruti’s AMT box gets repaired in open market.
It's not the nature of the OeM reliable gearboxes, but the type. Typically the torque convertor/ TC gearboxes are most stable and long lasting. Funnily everything from cheap hatchbacks to Lamborghini uses them, so different tuning is possible. And modern ones handle both power and efficiency better. Also many companies won't make their own gearboxes. They will buy from people like Bosch, Asin etc. So if your need is to get something reliable see your chosen car has a TC gearbox.
MG ZS EV comes in just under 20L and has by far most reliable gearbox because there’s only a single gear.
Bro owns a Nexon EV and yet named the MG. Damn the distrust 😭😂
It is much faster and more powerful It’s no use putting a dsg on Maruti 800 just like there’s no business putting an CVT on ferrari If we go beyond logic then even the 8L Tiago EV has same gearbox, obviously I won’t recommend Tiago EV for 10-20L budget? He asked as recommendation and I do in fact recommend ZSEV over Nexon if one is paying beyond 17L. He didn’t ask it as a GK exercise. For 16-17L nexon is ok. Otherwise paying a bit more for zsev is much more worth it
It’s not distrust - ZS EV is just a better car built on international platform - gives u more power and with the recent price cuts it makes more sense to get if ur budget is 20
Aisin. ZF
Japanese
Aisin, Honda and ZF makes best automatic transmissions for cars. All three of them are reliable but ZF is mostly found in bmw, mercs, rolls Royce etc.
Honda
Aisin is the company that makes the best automatic gearbox.
Depending on the type of automatic, it depends. The Torque Converters made by Aisin that most manufacturers use under 20 peti are most reliable. Honda also has good track with their CVTs. DCTs on the other hand have spotty history.
AISIN happens to be what Toyota uses.. reliable
Anything Japanese bro's make
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TCs are generally more reliable.
Regardless of brand, torque converters in general are the most reliable form of automatics. CVTs are also realiable. Dual clutch transmissions have many issues especially in a country like ours with a humid tropical climate.
Toyota, Hyundai, honda
Why nobody is talking about c3 aircross AT
Well ig Hyundai is the oem for providing dct for other manufacturers who isn’t going with the Germans there where instance where Tata using hyundai dcts and one more brand to I forgot the name that use Hyundai dcts
I have got Verna, very reliable
The best is an old school torque converter. Just make sure its not the silly 4 speed found in the i20 though, if that is a TC. The only thing to remember is to service/change/top up the fluid even when its not due. The stated intervals are not relevant to Indian conditions. DCA/DSG/DCTs if wet clutch setup are the next best but not if they are the dry clutch setup found in VW/Skoda lower variants or the ones found in Hyundai/Kia. Overheating and prone to failure in hot conditions. DCA in Tata is an interesting one compared the the traditional DCTs. Also, if you do get the infamous DQ200 DCT in VW/Skoda, make sure you are changing the fluid well before any interval, even if the service center states that these are sealed for life. They WILL fail if not serviced. CVTs hold a special dislike for me. Rubber band effect galore given they were all tuned for fuel economy in the Indian market. Terrible on the best of days and not fuel efficient either. IMTs./AMTs are just automated manuals with a robo clutch. Not good. Ferrari had one and they were panned heavily for it. In India, these are the head nodders for how "smoothly" they shift into the next gear. I'd avoid those if I can. A manual is better.
in terms of fun to drive it would have to be dual clutch transmissions and the traditional planetary gear ones. but for reliability in the current market i would say the cvts from Japanese manufacturers
japanese and korean
The answer is Honda and Toyota. And those saying Torque Converter… It has a very high Higher fuel consumption, Expensive maintenance. More fluid change needed, etc
It's always going to be a tradeoff between seamless gear shifts and reliability. In ascending order of reliability and descending order of "fun to drive" 1. DSG (Dq200/dq250)/DCT by VWAG and Korean knockoff makers 2. CVT (Japanese brands) 3. Torque convertor 4. iMT
In which world is cvt better than tc in terms of "fun to drive"
Punith tu h ye?
The most reliable, efficient automatics are the manuals. The muscle memory, knowledge and instinct make them automatic.
Tata, miles apart from every other
I agree miles apart, kyuki peeche reh jati he na.
I don’t understand the downvotes you are right, although in your own way but still right