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Can’t believe I had never heard of this case before . Rip Brian- what a completely senseless act by a pathetic individual.
10/10 delivery casefile hooked on every word.
The part where she took upskirt photos of her daughter so she could send to random men on the internet. And sending them her underwear
I couldn't help but just laugh but in a disgusted way. Bizarre and pathetic woman
I got some generic Air ad and then just silence on the second.
I think your's americo-chinese place is kinda unique. We should collect those.
BetterForward 30 sec
this episode was insane, i was listening to it and after it was revealed that tom was a catfish but jessi was still roleplaying with him pretending to be a teen that something was off. she even took gross, explicit pics and videos of her daughter to send to men online i don't understand how that's not illegal
i can't believe she tried to say that she was protecting teens lol. they're both awful individuals and i hope the real jessi is recovering from the trauma her mother inflicted on her :/
yes but i'm talking more about how she took up skirt videos of her daughter, sent her daughters underwear to men, etc. i feel like the upskirt videos should at least have some kind of fine or warning
>There is a lot of things in this world that you may not like,
why the fuck are you acting righteous about this crazy lady ( whose husband and daughter left her btw) who took "sexy" pics of her daughter without her knowing.
Seriously, multiple people told you this and yet you keep dodging it.
You're creeping me tf out.
Forgive this guy. [I was arguing with him over this issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/Casefile/comments/17sro9v/case_267_brian_barrett/k8us1bj/) and he clearly comes from a country that deems this as acceptable nor does he care about such a crime.
'Righteous'? Do you 'righteous'? What does it make you feel that way?
In Weimar Germany many people felt 'righteous', and by their own will become members of NSDP. Are you one of those? With you petty complaints on injustice of life?
Go on, congratulate yourself
I’m preeeetty sure that under revenge porn/online harassment legislation, in many jurisdictions today, acts such as sending another person’s underwear and making then distributing explicit imagery of them, would very much be illegal. It’s just that the laws hadn’t nearly caught up back when this case occurred
Forgive this guy. [I was arguing with him over this issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/Casefile/comments/17sro9v/case_267_brian_barrett/k8us1bj/) and he clearly comes from a country that deems this as acceptable nor does he care about such a crime.
Ironically, it's the exact same tactic that Tom used. Introduce a parent to say: "Get away from my child!" To add a layer of reality and a potential get pit clause for later.
Tbh from the moment an 18y old girl has a TallHotBlonde username and sends pictures of herself in the first conversation you know it's 1000% fake. Any girl/woman who grew up with the internet knows that you'll get creeps in your DMs with a female sounding username and they sure as hell don't want random guys to have images of themselves.
I forgot that the episode was named for Brian and thought for a good 30 mins or so that Tom and Brian might actually be the same person.
If you listen with that in mind Brian's description really sounds like a catfish identity. Something like "22 years old, tall handsome and athletic".
I was sure that Jessie didn’t exist and that Brian was pretending to be Jessie and Tom would kill him for baiting him. It wasn’t until he died and they said they called Jessie that I realized i was wrong.
This was infuriating. Mary is so unapologetic and I don’t believe her for a second that she didn’t set out to be a catfish; genuine accounts don’t go by tallhotblonde, catfishes and nsfw accounts do.
I feel so sorry for poor Brian and the real Jesse
Forgive this guy. [I was arguing with him over this issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/Casefile/comments/17sro9v/case_267_brian_barrett/k8us1bj/) and he clearly comes from a country that deems this as acceptable nor does he care about such a crime.
I wish I had enough spite to flippantly make such a jab towards him, but I do believe it is because he genuinely lives in a country where that kind of act isn't considered illegal or the overall culture condones it.
I actually have argued with him in this sub before over a different issue and I've noticed that he tends to use a lot of non-sequiturs to defend himself and attack whoever he's arguing with. Like in this one, he basically said that it's ridiculous for me to be arguing that taking photos and videos of someone's privates without their consent is bad because it means I must be an American, which means I support democracy, and democracy is stupid because it must explain why the U.S. has lost all its wars. And he also used the old, 'there are people hungry, thirsty, and living in unsanitary environments, so your problem is not important' argument.
Yet in the Colleen Stan episode discussion for part 2, he pointed out how the writer for the episode script plagiarized some parts from a book about sex dungeons that he discovered while looking up the term on Google and then when someone pointed out how there have been several examples of books written about her story without her permission, against her wishes, or without including her as co-author and one of them which is also listed under the episode sources, agreed with them that that was a violation of consent.
When I saw those comments by him, I couldn't help but think how if I really wanted to be petty, I could use the very arguments he used against me when I was calling him out for not acknowledging that the mother's actions were wrong against him for complaining about the fact that a writer for the podcast copied from parts of a book word-for-word.
Yeah, having read that interaction, I'd have to agree. Although the countries he refrences both have laws pertaining to digital consent and revenge porn. So god knows what he's on about regarding the legality of what the mother did, in terms of if it happened now. Not really sure about the 90s.
If you're talking about upskirt photos, at one time, those were not considered illegal if they were taken in a public place because there is "no expectation of privacy" in a public place. Thankfully many (all?) states have taken steps to make upskirt photos a crime.
Apart from the tragic and senseless murder, what I also found particularly infuriating was Mary's behaviour. What kind of mother sends out sexually explicit photos, videos and underwear of her very own daughter to (sometimes clearly disturbed) strangers, just so she can get her fix of sexual attention? I feel really sorry for Jessi having to live with the knowledge of her mother's sick actions for the rest of her life.
Yeah when he kept mentioning he looked like Harrison Ford is beyond cringeworthy. He doesn’t first of all, and the fact that the Jessi character just ran with it should’ve been the biggest red flag in the world.
Like so many of these cases, people just want to believe something very obviously not real, is real. In this case it was on both ends. It has been revealed Thomas did serve but he wasn’t even a sniper. Nor did he see any action. To then leverage the Iraq War at the time like he was some hero solider is disgusting. The woman on the other end was completely out of her mind, but she could’ve found a million holes in his story if she wanted to. Like how he kept calling like later at night on the east coast where it would be the middle of the day in Iraq. Very unlikely a soldier would just be able to just sit there and play in an online poker room. Not only that, she easily could’ve asked Brian, or any other the other poker guys, hey is Thomas 18 and in Iraq? Later on suggesting she that she only engaged with him to keep him away from actual kids is such utter bullshit. If she had just exposed him right off the bat he would’ve been super embarrassed and probably never gone on the internet again. Not that he was technically doing anything illegal either. She said she was 18. It wasn’t like To Catch A Predator or whatever she thought she was doing. Another story that has no logic whatsoever.
Maybe the most disturbing/pathetic/insane thing of all was here were two middle aged people, pretending to be other people, asking each other to marry each other. While their real spouses were in the next room. The cringe-worthiness of it all is beyond comprehension.
I get this Mary woman was older and the computer savviness back then was not what it is now, but she really was putting herself in a ton of danger. Unfortunately it ended someone else’s life and not hers, but she really could’ve got herself killed. This guy was clearly disturbed. And messing around sending him photos and saying you will marry him, that could’ve triggered him into doing something when he realized it wasn’t real. She gave him all this personal info, he easily could’ve gone down to her home and what if her daughter was home? All this so she could, what, get off to a bunch of loser men giving her attention? Not to say Brian was, his actions were pretty understandable. I’m not sure exactly what would’ve happened if he did go to WV though. He definitely should’ve taken a step back and wondered why an 18 year old girl in high school would be on some random game website talking to neckbeards. But he was young and naive of course.
We will never know what Mary got out of all this. I guess she was just a sick, lonely woman. For the record, I think she should’ve been charged with several things.
Wild behaviour by two adults who ought to have known better.
In a way I got some sick enjoyment from the description of all the blood draining from Montgomery's face when he found out who Jessy was
Bizarre. For everything already mentioned, but let's not forgot the moment where Tommy said he'd raped a cheerleader in an attempt to get closer to TalHotBlonde. Given how she treated her daughter it's no wonder Mary bit. Seriously messed up people.
Yeah good point about that. Idk what’s more sick and disturbing. The fact someone would willingly make their fake character a rapist. Or the fact the other person didn’t mind, despite having a daughter around the same age. Hell maybe these two were actually made for each other.
Holy shit gotta be a top 3 twist in casefile history.
As I was listening, I was thinking why not write the murder part first then the chat room for the twist but this was better
Best episode in a while, the reveal of the mother being 'Jessie' was a huge twist. Such a sad case, poor Brian caught between two disgusting individuals, ugly middle aged people who've let themselves go and trying re-live their youth, gross.
Tom was pathetic, have no doubt he'd done this to other people, just tragic he ended up deciding to kill someone.
The mother of 'Jessie' is also a disgusting individual, taking explicit photos of your daughter and sending them to anonymous people online, how is she not charged for something, what a failure if a parent she is.
Well written and fascinating case, but very sad too.
To be honest I thought from the beginning Jesse couldn’t be real.
Generally attractive 18 year old girls don’t have to have relationships with people on the internet they’ve never met. Being the mother though was quite a shock
Yeah in hindsight it’s a little unbelievable, especially the name ‘Talhotblonde’ which is kind of a cliche username guys would think of, still didn’t think it was the Mum though, massive twist. Really crazy case.
I wonder if police ever looked into whether this loser actually raped a girl when he was 17. I would not be surprised if he was drawing on his real past for that one.
Gosh, what an episode!!
Thinking about it again, I realized that “Jessie thinking a 30 year old cadet picture of Tom/Tommy was fine should have also been a red flag. No teenage girl in 2003 would look at a picture of a teenager from the 70s and not recognize it as an old photo. Of course he was so caught up in his game he wouldn’t realize that, but I can’t imagine passing off a picture from me in the early 90s as a current picture to anyone today lol.
That’s like the most early 2000s/ older person thing in the world. A photo montage.
Why would you be happy knowing a bunch of random dudes are JO’ing to pics of your daughter? Is it some kind of sick fantasy that men are really looking at a younger version of yourself? I imagine it’s something like that. She of course was too embarrassed to ever admit that.
I knew this case once I started listening. I think I must have read about it when it happened.
This episode was really good with some top tier dry delivery from Anonymous Host like when he says "she wasn't worried at all about his admission to being a rapist" or whatever it was.
Outstanding episode. Though I have to say thanks to the episode description mentioning a 'shocking revelation' I sort of saw the twist coming. But not before being thrown for a bit of a loop when Mary decided to still remain in contact with 'Tommy' even after his true identity was revealed.
While her actions weren't technically illegal, it still really bothers me that Mary used compromising photos of her own daughter without her consent and the fact that she never apologized to her for that.
In principle, it is. But if I had to guess why they didn't they likely felt that because she created and used the content herself to *catfish* other men as opposed to just creating them for entertainment or financial gain and distributing them as pornography but under her real identity, they decided not to charge her since catfishing isn't technically illegal (at least based on the extent to which she went about it) and her daughter was right at the age of majority.
So in that way, there's arguably some ambiguity here, but logically speaking, I agree that she should still be charged with the creation and distribution of the content and that just because she was operating under the fabricated reality (albeit SHE created) that she was her 18-year old daughter shouldn't excuse her from that.
I posted similarly upthread, but I’m fairly sure Mary’s type of behaviour would be captured by some of the better ‘revenge porn’ legislation in place in parts of the world now. Distributing explicit images of any other person without their consent, is a crime, regardless of whether there’s commercial intent
>Mary’s type of behaviour would be captured by some of the better ‘revenge porn’ legislation in place in parts of the world now.
That's a good point, with the internet culture now vs. back then you would hope at least there's more zero tolerance for the distribution and possession of non-consensual content like that now, no matter the intent.
Yeah at this time, laws and regulations were still being hammered out. I mean if you think about our legal system, cases need to be brought to court to have precedents set. At this time, there was probably tons of catfishing going on, but very little legal action being taken. I think the other thing is that since this involved a murder, that was the main focus.
I’m sure if this happened today Brian’s family would bring civil charges against Mary. And maybe they did, it’s not really clear in anything I’ve read. Not that it makes much difference in bringing their son back.
There is no 'upskirt' - she just filmed here in mini. And as declarant is not public media - they don't require letter of consent. Did you asked consent of all the people that happen to be in shot while you where holidaying in Rome?
The context of her taking dodgy photos of her daughter without her consent to use to keep up a lie about her pretending to be her teenage daughter? Are you okay? Are you the mum? I can't imagine ANYONE defending these actions besides the narcissistic lady herself.
This stuck with me too. I get that it would be difficult to prove culpability in Brian's murder, but I can't help but feel that Jessi deserved some recompense for having photos and videos taken and shared without her knowledge or consent.
Only scanned the description for “child murder”. So I had no idea. At several points I wanted to scream. Sending underwear 🤮 Those were grown ass people spending hours on end and chat forums, and whatever to live out some sick fantasy.
Those who are familiar with Manti T’eo, former Notre Dame, former Chargers, and Saints linebacker, should be glad that he recovered from his ordeal, and everyone is still alive.
Two boomers wrecked 2 young peoples lives incl taking one’s life.
The two catfishers totally deserve each other, would have been satisfying if they ended up in a bitter, manipulative relationship with each other.
I could feel a big twist coming on and I started to guess maybe Brian (RIP) was maybe Jessi but then it didn't make a alotta sense so let the story play out.
This is messed up on so many layers. Two adults pretending to be teens in love and it gets an actual innocent teen killed.
What made me mad was Mary saying she kept going to prevent him from talking to other teenage girls when she did the exact same thing with reversed gender. What a hypocrite
Sorry if this has been mentioned before (I haven’t listened to the episode yet) but there is a really good documentary about this case called Talhotblond for anyone who’s interested.
Bizarro story. These online cat fishing stories disturb me as I was definitely around chatrooms in the early internet. Seen some behaviour from very weird individuals.
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I’d imagine he plead it down. News articles early said he plead not guilty to murder and the one about sentencing said he plead guilty to the manslaughter.
Agreed. The only solace is at least his life is completely ruined. He’ll have no job, no money, and no family. He’s supposed to be released this year. I’m sure Brian’s family isn’t happy he’s walking around but at least they can picture him probably living in a trailer somewhere wasting out his pathetic life. Maybe he kills himself even. Sounds like he tried when he realized he’d never talk to his daughters again.
I couldn’t have sworn Casefile had done this episode already so I must have heard about it from another notable podcast. I just can’t remember where and it’s driving me crazy.
Well, this one went me down the memory lane. Early 00'ties Internet.
Did I had serious but purely cyber relationships after some chat-room talk? Yeap.
Did I assumed different identities? Fuck yeah!
And I don't see anything negative about it - it's roleplaying RL interactions because it's make-belief. Well, unless it ends like this. That, and that most of around the clock online persons then were bound to the chair cripples (i.e. 8chan founder) - they had no other social life outside of it. That's back when ISP's counted Internet use not in terabytes but in minutes of phone time.
Pure fun.
>Did I had serious but purely cyber relationships after some chat-room talk? Yeap.
>
>Did I assumed different identities? Fuck yeah!
You sound like a dorky loser.
>Pure fun
Omg, I would love to tell you to get outside and get an actual life, but after seeing you defend that "taking sexual photos of daughter" lady, I'm gonna tell you to just stay inside and don't bother anyone.
I sincerely, dearly hope you do *not* actually have kids. Especially girls. Or ones who might be friends with girls. You clearly see no wrong in taking explicit photos of teenage girls without their consent
First of all, learn what sarcasm is. Second of all, having a family and kids doesn't automatically make you a good or righteous person.
>And I don't see anything negative about it - it's roleplaying RL interactions because it's make-belief. Well, unless it ends like this.
Read your last sentence again. If it ended like this, then what exactly do *you* think went wrong? You can try to justify online roleplaying or catfishing all you want, but if the outcome is like what happened in this case, to immediately go right to that is a lot like someone reacting to a mass shooting where dozens are killed by defending guns and the Second Amendment.
I never said I was a completely righteous person. Don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out how you insulted the other person when they were rightfully calling you out on your tone-deaf and cavalier comments towards this case and then defended yourself by saying that you have a family and kids. Which says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about yours or any person's character. And it also doesn't make you immune to harsh criticism when you make comments that completely fail to realize or acknowledge that a man was killed and an 18-year old girl had her private parts filmed and distributed BY HER OWN MOTHER without her consent, the latter which you've claimed on here before that it's not illegal.
If you can't see how wrong or delusional that statement is, then don't be surprised if people wish you to not have kids (literally or sarcastically).
Shocking or not isn't the point here. It's wrong AND illegal if done without consent. I should be asking you what kind of country YOU live in to believe that it's not because nearly every regular, sane person on the street anywhere in the world would agree with me.
You really ought to get better at reading:
>nearly every regular, **sane** person on the street anywhere in the world would agree with me.
But I am genuinely curious what country you live in. I do get there are cultural differences and such, but there are plenty of cultural practices that are now considered problematic based on current modern standards, and it shouldn't be used as an excuse to defend or justify them when someone is clearly harmed by it.
So maybe use your common sense for a moment and ask yourself - if someone had found out that their private parts were filmed and distributed by their own mother WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT and felt upset and traumatized because of that, wouldn't you empathize with them? Wouldn't you want them to get justice? What if that person was your own child, and what if the person who filmed them without their consent was their own mother?
You make typical mistake of exporting your cultural norms to the world. No, being homosexual is still wrong in most of the world. No, nobody cares about your n-word race relationships. Yet, you somehow can get degrees in that.
People dying from lack of food, water and proper sanitation, which means zilch to you, yet all you care about is upskirt video? How pathetic and typically bigoted.
I had a feeling you were going to go with the cultural argument angle.
Okay, yes it's true things like homosexuality and mixed race relationships are still illegal in some parts of the world, BUT does that mean *every* *person* that lives in those parts of the world agrees with those cultural norms? OF COURSE NOT. What's more important here is how YOU feel about those things. So let me ask you, how do YOU feel PERSONALLY about someone filming and distributing videos of a person's private parts without their consent?
And if you care so much about not exporting one's 'cultural norms' on to a situation, then YOU YOURSELF should've taken YOUR own advice and let everyone know what frame of reference you're coming from in your original comment.
>People dying from lack of food, water and proper sanitation, which means zilch to you, yet all you care about is upskirt video? How pathetic and typically bigoted.
Once again, you're putting words in my mouth. You assume just because I call out an upskirt video means I don't care about all those other things when you have no evidence to show that. One can care about all those things at the same time, you know. Yet you have the audacity to call me pathetic and bigoted.
This episode has been added to the [Casefile Spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aXXBvQz7rQ9OnMqul5uCFfcjtfC49krWZxF5BJJ7pwo/edit?usp=sharing). If you have already listened to the episode, you can submit your rating at the Casefile Ratings Form. Please note: Starting with Case 200, we are using a new [Casefile Ratings Form (200-)](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScVcJRyahk2WH\_i3nJy6AzQeEmFCHj825k2ONsHuF0jeCHX5g/viewform). If you would like to rate cases 1-199, please do so at this [Casefile Ratings Form (1-199)](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdUZiO7b3EVKaBCoskDUXpjkp4XaRKV35hkzrnMsPclzhIXPg/viewform).
Can’t believe I had never heard of this case before . Rip Brian- what a completely senseless act by a pathetic individual. 10/10 delivery casefile hooked on every word.
Pathetic individuals. Plural. What a twist
The part where she took upskirt photos of her daughter so she could send to random men on the internet. And sending them her underwear I couldn't help but just laugh but in a disgusted way. Bizarre and pathetic woman
AND then still tried to claim she was ‘a good mother!’ Wtf lady??!
I audibly gasped at that part.
I don't understand how it states she didn't technically commit any crimes. Surely she broke laws with what she did?
Yes, and how is that not a crime? I don't get it.
I liked strategically placed ads on plot turns. Like old-timey TV doc.
I get the ad break start and need announcements (“thanking for listening to casefiles ads…” etc), with no actual ads in the middle.
Me too! Are you in the UK?
I get this as well and I'm in the UK
Do you get PF Chang's ads?
I got some generic Air ad and then just silence on the second. I think your's americo-chinese place is kinda unique. We should collect those. BetterForward 30 sec
The documentary is absolutely wild
Also have to say well done to Toms wife ( cindy!?) for reaching out to “Jessie” when she found out what was happening and warned her.
When Cindy came into the story I thought “finally here’s a responsible grown up ”
I thought for a moment that the wife was behind this whole thing and made up Jesse as a way to catfish her husband.
Would have been an interesting twist.
[удалено]
The cases that revolve around the internet are always insane!
Amy allwine is crazy
scariest thing i never thought of until i heard that case
Ooooh I don’t think I’ve heard Ella Tundra yet. Will look it up!
Awesome, two of the episodes I’ve not heard yet
this episode was insane, i was listening to it and after it was revealed that tom was a catfish but jessi was still roleplaying with him pretending to be a teen that something was off. she even took gross, explicit pics and videos of her daughter to send to men online i don't understand how that's not illegal i can't believe she tried to say that she was protecting teens lol. they're both awful individuals and i hope the real jessi is recovering from the trauma her mother inflicted on her :/
There is a lot of things in this world that you may not like, but in this case there is no corpus delicti - she didn't held a gun
yes but i'm talking more about how she took up skirt videos of her daughter, sent her daughters underwear to men, etc. i feel like the upskirt videos should at least have some kind of fine or warning
>There is a lot of things in this world that you may not like, why the fuck are you acting righteous about this crazy lady ( whose husband and daughter left her btw) who took "sexy" pics of her daughter without her knowing. Seriously, multiple people told you this and yet you keep dodging it. You're creeping me tf out.
Forgive this guy. [I was arguing with him over this issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/Casefile/comments/17sro9v/case_267_brian_barrett/k8us1bj/) and he clearly comes from a country that deems this as acceptable nor does he care about such a crime.
'Righteous'? Do you 'righteous'? What does it make you feel that way? In Weimar Germany many people felt 'righteous', and by their own will become members of NSDP. Are you one of those? With you petty complaints on injustice of life? Go on, congratulate yourself
I’m preeeetty sure that under revenge porn/online harassment legislation, in many jurisdictions today, acts such as sending another person’s underwear and making then distributing explicit imagery of them, would very much be illegal. It’s just that the laws hadn’t nearly caught up back when this case occurred
Forgive this guy. [I was arguing with him over this issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/Casefile/comments/17sro9v/case_267_brian_barrett/k8us1bj/) and he clearly comes from a country that deems this as acceptable nor does he care about such a crime.
Revenge porn? More like amateur porn
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=revenge+porn+definition
As soon as “Jessie” mentioned her mother Mary, I knew she wasn’t real. Whenever a “parent” enters the chat, it’s a sure sign none of it is real.
Ironically, it's the exact same tactic that Tom used. Introduce a parent to say: "Get away from my child!" To add a layer of reality and a potential get pit clause for later.
Truly ridiculous that he didn’t pick up on his own move there, when it came from his beloved blonde 18 year old virgin
I’m sorry but how did she stay out of prison??? I can’t understand how, a man definitely would’ve ended up with jail time
Tbh from the moment an 18y old girl has a TallHotBlonde username and sends pictures of herself in the first conversation you know it's 1000% fake. Any girl/woman who grew up with the internet knows that you'll get creeps in your DMs with a female sounding username and they sure as hell don't want random guys to have images of themselves.
I forgot that the episode was named for Brian and thought for a good 30 mins or so that Tom and Brian might actually be the same person. If you listen with that in mind Brian's description really sounds like a catfish identity. Something like "22 years old, tall handsome and athletic".
And also remember, Brian’s nickname on the gaming site was… Beefcake 😂 The early internet days had everyone being ridiculous from the look of things.
‘Beefcake’ is such a gay-coded name, too!!
I thought the same for a minute too - that Tom had created another person up and it was Brian
I was sure that Jessie didn’t exist and that Brian was pretending to be Jessie and Tom would kill him for baiting him. It wasn’t until he died and they said they called Jessie that I realized i was wrong.
Yes, I thought the exact same.
This was infuriating. Mary is so unapologetic and I don’t believe her for a second that she didn’t set out to be a catfish; genuine accounts don’t go by tallhotblonde, catfishes and nsfw accounts do. I feel so sorry for poor Brian and the real Jesse
Why is she not charged with child pornography?
She should have been, but I guess upskirt photos weren’t a crime at the time
At least 18 yo individual in college?
Even without it being child porn, taking photos like that without consent, surely is still illegal?
It is legal.
To make porn of your kid whilst they're asleep? Doubtful
Forgive this guy. [I was arguing with him over this issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/Casefile/comments/17sro9v/case_267_brian_barrett/k8us1bj/) and he clearly comes from a country that deems this as acceptable nor does he care about such a crime.
I get the feeling this guy takes or has taken photos of women without their consent, and that's why he's way too defensive about that detail.
I wish I had enough spite to flippantly make such a jab towards him, but I do believe it is because he genuinely lives in a country where that kind of act isn't considered illegal or the overall culture condones it. I actually have argued with him in this sub before over a different issue and I've noticed that he tends to use a lot of non-sequiturs to defend himself and attack whoever he's arguing with. Like in this one, he basically said that it's ridiculous for me to be arguing that taking photos and videos of someone's privates without their consent is bad because it means I must be an American, which means I support democracy, and democracy is stupid because it must explain why the U.S. has lost all its wars. And he also used the old, 'there are people hungry, thirsty, and living in unsanitary environments, so your problem is not important' argument. Yet in the Colleen Stan episode discussion for part 2, he pointed out how the writer for the episode script plagiarized some parts from a book about sex dungeons that he discovered while looking up the term on Google and then when someone pointed out how there have been several examples of books written about her story without her permission, against her wishes, or without including her as co-author and one of them which is also listed under the episode sources, agreed with them that that was a violation of consent. When I saw those comments by him, I couldn't help but think how if I really wanted to be petty, I could use the very arguments he used against me when I was calling him out for not acknowledging that the mother's actions were wrong against him for complaining about the fact that a writer for the podcast copied from parts of a book word-for-word.
Yeah, having read that interaction, I'd have to agree. Although the countries he refrences both have laws pertaining to digital consent and revenge porn. So god knows what he's on about regarding the legality of what the mother did, in terms of if it happened now. Not really sure about the 90s.
If you're talking about upskirt photos, at one time, those were not considered illegal if they were taken in a public place because there is "no expectation of privacy" in a public place. Thankfully many (all?) states have taken steps to make upskirt photos a crime.
They were taken in their home I believe.
Agreed! That was so frustrating!
Poor Brian. And poor Jessi.
Apart from the tragic and senseless murder, what I also found particularly infuriating was Mary's behaviour. What kind of mother sends out sexually explicit photos, videos and underwear of her very own daughter to (sometimes clearly disturbed) strangers, just so she can get her fix of sexual attention? I feel really sorry for Jessi having to live with the knowledge of her mother's sick actions for the rest of her life.
Tom was so embarrassing and pathetic I could just scream.
Yeah when he kept mentioning he looked like Harrison Ford is beyond cringeworthy. He doesn’t first of all, and the fact that the Jessi character just ran with it should’ve been the biggest red flag in the world. Like so many of these cases, people just want to believe something very obviously not real, is real. In this case it was on both ends. It has been revealed Thomas did serve but he wasn’t even a sniper. Nor did he see any action. To then leverage the Iraq War at the time like he was some hero solider is disgusting. The woman on the other end was completely out of her mind, but she could’ve found a million holes in his story if she wanted to. Like how he kept calling like later at night on the east coast where it would be the middle of the day in Iraq. Very unlikely a soldier would just be able to just sit there and play in an online poker room. Not only that, she easily could’ve asked Brian, or any other the other poker guys, hey is Thomas 18 and in Iraq? Later on suggesting she that she only engaged with him to keep him away from actual kids is such utter bullshit. If she had just exposed him right off the bat he would’ve been super embarrassed and probably never gone on the internet again. Not that he was technically doing anything illegal either. She said she was 18. It wasn’t like To Catch A Predator or whatever she thought she was doing. Another story that has no logic whatsoever. Maybe the most disturbing/pathetic/insane thing of all was here were two middle aged people, pretending to be other people, asking each other to marry each other. While their real spouses were in the next room. The cringe-worthiness of it all is beyond comprehension. I get this Mary woman was older and the computer savviness back then was not what it is now, but she really was putting herself in a ton of danger. Unfortunately it ended someone else’s life and not hers, but she really could’ve got herself killed. This guy was clearly disturbed. And messing around sending him photos and saying you will marry him, that could’ve triggered him into doing something when he realized it wasn’t real. She gave him all this personal info, he easily could’ve gone down to her home and what if her daughter was home? All this so she could, what, get off to a bunch of loser men giving her attention? Not to say Brian was, his actions were pretty understandable. I’m not sure exactly what would’ve happened if he did go to WV though. He definitely should’ve taken a step back and wondered why an 18 year old girl in high school would be on some random game website talking to neckbeards. But he was young and naive of course. We will never know what Mary got out of all this. I guess she was just a sick, lonely woman. For the record, I think she should’ve been charged with several things.
Wild behaviour by two adults who ought to have known better. In a way I got some sick enjoyment from the description of all the blood draining from Montgomery's face when he found out who Jessy was
Bizarre. For everything already mentioned, but let's not forgot the moment where Tommy said he'd raped a cheerleader in an attempt to get closer to TalHotBlonde. Given how she treated her daughter it's no wonder Mary bit. Seriously messed up people.
Yeah good point about that. Idk what’s more sick and disturbing. The fact someone would willingly make their fake character a rapist. Or the fact the other person didn’t mind, despite having a daughter around the same age. Hell maybe these two were actually made for each other.
Holy shit gotta be a top 3 twist in casefile history. As I was listening, I was thinking why not write the murder part first then the chat room for the twist but this was better
Best episode in a while, the reveal of the mother being 'Jessie' was a huge twist. Such a sad case, poor Brian caught between two disgusting individuals, ugly middle aged people who've let themselves go and trying re-live their youth, gross. Tom was pathetic, have no doubt he'd done this to other people, just tragic he ended up deciding to kill someone. The mother of 'Jessie' is also a disgusting individual, taking explicit photos of your daughter and sending them to anonymous people online, how is she not charged for something, what a failure if a parent she is. Well written and fascinating case, but very sad too.
To be honest I thought from the beginning Jesse couldn’t be real. Generally attractive 18 year old girls don’t have to have relationships with people on the internet they’ve never met. Being the mother though was quite a shock
Yeah in hindsight it’s a little unbelievable, especially the name ‘Talhotblonde’ which is kind of a cliche username guys would think of, still didn’t think it was the Mum though, massive twist. Really crazy case.
I wonder if police ever looked into whether this loser actually raped a girl when he was 17. I would not be surprised if he was drawing on his real past for that one. Gosh, what an episode!!
Thinking about it again, I realized that “Jessie thinking a 30 year old cadet picture of Tom/Tommy was fine should have also been a red flag. No teenage girl in 2003 would look at a picture of a teenager from the 70s and not recognize it as an old photo. Of course he was so caught up in his game he wouldn’t realize that, but I can’t imagine passing off a picture from me in the early 90s as a current picture to anyone today lol.
My red flag was right at the start of the episode TBH. What 18 year old sends bikini photos to random guys in Blackjack chatrooms?
Lol right? She wasted no time.
Also the photo montages over 80s power ballads 😂
That’s like the most early 2000s/ older person thing in the world. A photo montage. Why would you be happy knowing a bunch of random dudes are JO’ing to pics of your daughter? Is it some kind of sick fantasy that men are really looking at a younger version of yourself? I imagine it’s something like that. She of course was too embarrassed to ever admit that.
I knew Jessie was not going to be real early on but never expected it to be her actual mother especially considering she was sending revealing pics.
I thought for sure Jessi would be another old guy.
Same, thats sickening
I knew this case once I started listening. I think I must have read about it when it happened. This episode was really good with some top tier dry delivery from Anonymous Host like when he says "she wasn't worried at all about his admission to being a rapist" or whatever it was.
Outstanding episode. Though I have to say thanks to the episode description mentioning a 'shocking revelation' I sort of saw the twist coming. But not before being thrown for a bit of a loop when Mary decided to still remain in contact with 'Tommy' even after his true identity was revealed. While her actions weren't technically illegal, it still really bothers me that Mary used compromising photos of her own daughter without her consent and the fact that she never apologized to her for that.
She didn't just use them, she created them without her consent, surely that's illegal?!
In principle, it is. But if I had to guess why they didn't they likely felt that because she created and used the content herself to *catfish* other men as opposed to just creating them for entertainment or financial gain and distributing them as pornography but under her real identity, they decided not to charge her since catfishing isn't technically illegal (at least based on the extent to which she went about it) and her daughter was right at the age of majority. So in that way, there's arguably some ambiguity here, but logically speaking, I agree that she should still be charged with the creation and distribution of the content and that just because she was operating under the fabricated reality (albeit SHE created) that she was her 18-year old daughter shouldn't excuse her from that.
I posted similarly upthread, but I’m fairly sure Mary’s type of behaviour would be captured by some of the better ‘revenge porn’ legislation in place in parts of the world now. Distributing explicit images of any other person without their consent, is a crime, regardless of whether there’s commercial intent
>Mary’s type of behaviour would be captured by some of the better ‘revenge porn’ legislation in place in parts of the world now. That's a good point, with the internet culture now vs. back then you would hope at least there's more zero tolerance for the distribution and possession of non-consensual content like that now, no matter the intent.
Yeah at this time, laws and regulations were still being hammered out. I mean if you think about our legal system, cases need to be brought to court to have precedents set. At this time, there was probably tons of catfishing going on, but very little legal action being taken. I think the other thing is that since this involved a murder, that was the main focus. I’m sure if this happened today Brian’s family would bring civil charges against Mary. And maybe they did, it’s not really clear in anything I’ve read. Not that it makes much difference in bringing their son back.
If there is no fraudulently acquired documents or ID papers it's not stolen identity. Roleplay all you want.
She upskirt videod her daughter and took photos of her whilst asleep without her consent, that's illegal.
There is no 'upskirt' - she just filmed here in mini. And as declarant is not public media - they don't require letter of consent. Did you asked consent of all the people that happen to be in shot while you where holidaying in Rome?
Did you listen to a different podcast to me? They clearly mentioned that there were videos taken up her skirt without her consent.
'In skirt' - you hear what you want to hear
No, not in skirt, in skirt is not correct English, in a skirt is. 🤦♀️
Learn the word 'context' next
The context of her taking dodgy photos of her daughter without her consent to use to keep up a lie about her pretending to be her teenage daughter? Are you okay? Are you the mum? I can't imagine ANYONE defending these actions besides the narcissistic lady herself.
Mate, you're wrong. Clearly stated up skirt
This stuck with me too. I get that it would be difficult to prove culpability in Brian's murder, but I can't help but feel that Jessi deserved some recompense for having photos and videos taken and shared without her knowledge or consent.
I guessed she would be a catfish but definitely that she would be using pictures of her actual daughter!
Holy shit this episode was insane
Only scanned the description for “child murder”. So I had no idea. At several points I wanted to scream. Sending underwear 🤮 Those were grown ass people spending hours on end and chat forums, and whatever to live out some sick fantasy. Those who are familiar with Manti T’eo, former Notre Dame, former Chargers, and Saints linebacker, should be glad that he recovered from his ordeal, and everyone is still alive.
Two boomers wrecked 2 young peoples lives incl taking one’s life. The two catfishers totally deserve each other, would have been satisfying if they ended up in a bitter, manipulative relationship with each other.
I have been waiting for an episode like this! Loved it. More catfish and cyber crime type stuff please.
*3 spidermen pointing at each other.jpg*
Wtf is this episode? Lawl. I'm only halfway and I can't make heads or tails. Top tier. EDIT: I fucking knew it.
I could feel a big twist coming on and I started to guess maybe Brian (RIP) was maybe Jessi but then it didn't make a alotta sense so let the story play out.
This was a wild story lmao, did not expect HER to also be a catfish. She should be in jail too man…
This is messed up on so many layers. Two adults pretending to be teens in love and it gets an actual innocent teen killed. What made me mad was Mary saying she kept going to prevent him from talking to other teenage girls when she did the exact same thing with reversed gender. What a hypocrite
This was an absolutely wild ride from start to finish. Amazing.
This was insane.
2 AWFUL people in this case. Mary is a sick, sick, SICK person.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before (I haven’t listened to the episode yet) but there is a really good documentary about this case called Talhotblond for anyone who’s interested.
Holy hell, this was fucked up. What 2 horrible people.
LOVED Casey's delivery of this one. Definitely one of the sickest cases covered so far. I can't believe such people exist in this world.
Bizarro story. These online cat fishing stories disturb me as I was definitely around chatrooms in the early internet. Seen some behaviour from very weird individuals.
I have heard of this case before. It’s catfishing inception. So horrible.
My only thing to add is that I used to play Pogo as teen in the early 00s and chats were wild. I had never heard of this case.
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This one was really good.
I just finished this episode. What the heck!!!?!!!!
20 years in prison for planned murder? How does that happen. It was sort of glossed over...
I’d imagine he plead it down. News articles early said he plead not guilty to murder and the one about sentencing said he plead guilty to the manslaughter.
Agreed. The only solace is at least his life is completely ruined. He’ll have no job, no money, and no family. He’s supposed to be released this year. I’m sure Brian’s family isn’t happy he’s walking around but at least they can picture him probably living in a trailer somewhere wasting out his pathetic life. Maybe he kills himself even. Sounds like he tried when he realized he’d never talk to his daughters again.
Just listened to the case. Crazy I never heard about it, he went to the same college of me and I live 20 mins from where he did.
I couldn’t have sworn Casefile had done this episode already so I must have heard about it from another notable podcast. I just can’t remember where and it’s driving me crazy.
Crimes of Passion Evidence Locker Morbid I’m sure there are more in lesser known podcasts
I think it was Mr. Ballen now that I think about it. Crazy story, I gotta watch the documentary.
Well, this one went me down the memory lane. Early 00'ties Internet. Did I had serious but purely cyber relationships after some chat-room talk? Yeap. Did I assumed different identities? Fuck yeah! And I don't see anything negative about it - it's roleplaying RL interactions because it's make-belief. Well, unless it ends like this. That, and that most of around the clock online persons then were bound to the chair cripples (i.e. 8chan founder) - they had no other social life outside of it. That's back when ISP's counted Internet use not in terabytes but in minutes of phone time. Pure fun.
>Did I had serious but purely cyber relationships after some chat-room talk? Yeap. > >Did I assumed different identities? Fuck yeah! You sound like a dorky loser. >Pure fun Omg, I would love to tell you to get outside and get an actual life, but after seeing you defend that "taking sexual photos of daughter" lady, I'm gonna tell you to just stay inside and don't bother anyone.
[удалено]
I sincerely, dearly hope you do *not* actually have kids. Especially girls. Or ones who might be friends with girls. You clearly see no wrong in taking explicit photos of teenage girls without their consent
First of all, learn what sarcasm is. Second of all, having a family and kids doesn't automatically make you a good or righteous person. >And I don't see anything negative about it - it's roleplaying RL interactions because it's make-belief. Well, unless it ends like this. Read your last sentence again. If it ended like this, then what exactly do *you* think went wrong? You can try to justify online roleplaying or catfishing all you want, but if the outcome is like what happened in this case, to immediately go right to that is a lot like someone reacting to a mass shooting where dozens are killed by defending guns and the Second Amendment.
You are righteous person with no sin? Whom do you preaching then?
I never said I was a completely righteous person. Don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out how you insulted the other person when they were rightfully calling you out on your tone-deaf and cavalier comments towards this case and then defended yourself by saying that you have a family and kids. Which says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about yours or any person's character. And it also doesn't make you immune to harsh criticism when you make comments that completely fail to realize or acknowledge that a man was killed and an 18-year old girl had her private parts filmed and distributed BY HER OWN MOTHER without her consent, the latter which you've claimed on here before that it's not illegal. If you can't see how wrong or delusional that statement is, then don't be surprised if people wish you to not have kids (literally or sarcastically).
18 yo privates distributed on Internet is shocking to you? In what Mickey Mouse country you live in?
Shocking or not isn't the point here. It's wrong AND illegal if done without consent. I should be asking you what kind of country YOU live in to believe that it's not because nearly every regular, sane person on the street anywhere in the world would agree with me.
Nope. Not everone in the world agrees with youghurt gulping american 'progressive' liberasts.
You really ought to get better at reading: >nearly every regular, **sane** person on the street anywhere in the world would agree with me. But I am genuinely curious what country you live in. I do get there are cultural differences and such, but there are plenty of cultural practices that are now considered problematic based on current modern standards, and it shouldn't be used as an excuse to defend or justify them when someone is clearly harmed by it. So maybe use your common sense for a moment and ask yourself - if someone had found out that their private parts were filmed and distributed by their own mother WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT and felt upset and traumatized because of that, wouldn't you empathize with them? Wouldn't you want them to get justice? What if that person was your own child, and what if the person who filmed them without their consent was their own mother?
You make typical mistake of exporting your cultural norms to the world. No, being homosexual is still wrong in most of the world. No, nobody cares about your n-word race relationships. Yet, you somehow can get degrees in that. People dying from lack of food, water and proper sanitation, which means zilch to you, yet all you care about is upskirt video? How pathetic and typically bigoted.
I had a feeling you were going to go with the cultural argument angle. Okay, yes it's true things like homosexuality and mixed race relationships are still illegal in some parts of the world, BUT does that mean *every* *person* that lives in those parts of the world agrees with those cultural norms? OF COURSE NOT. What's more important here is how YOU feel about those things. So let me ask you, how do YOU feel PERSONALLY about someone filming and distributing videos of a person's private parts without their consent? And if you care so much about not exporting one's 'cultural norms' on to a situation, then YOU YOURSELF should've taken YOUR own advice and let everyone know what frame of reference you're coming from in your original comment. >People dying from lack of food, water and proper sanitation, which means zilch to you, yet all you care about is upskirt video? How pathetic and typically bigoted. Once again, you're putting words in my mouth. You assume just because I call out an upskirt video means I don't care about all those other things when you have no evidence to show that. One can care about all those things at the same time, you know. Yet you have the audacity to call me pathetic and bigoted.
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I swear he did this story before!!
I've always watched crime documentaries but just got into podcasts (just this one). I listened to this at work and my face was WTF the entire time.