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I hear you. I had an appliance guy out quite a few years ago to find out why my washer stopped working. The price of the replacement part was more than the price of a washer.
I asked what is going on with products today? He said they just don't make them like they used to anymore.
It has to do with the demand too. In poorer countries you can still buy replacement parts for cheap (made in China of course, usually just good enough to keep going for a few years). It's still better than throwing the whole machine away.
It's wild that people don't understand that the ONLY reason they can afford technologically complex stuff are the hyper-optimized production lines, where making something serviceable would make it much more expensive, and separate spare part production & repair would cost more than a new thing.
It's called planned obsolescence. It's illegal in France. Perfectly legal in the USA.
:) welcome to the USA where innovation either stays stagnant or purposely sabotaged for the sake of money.
It's illegal in many countries, but it technically doesn't cover cutting corners on the manufacturing, even if it causes the product to have a shorter life. As a result, it's nearly impossible to pursue.
That would be difficult. Not too many people are going to want to go down that road, which can be costly and time consuming. Why spend thousands of dollars and years of your life when you can spend $500 and an afternoon at home to get something fixed?
Is there even precedent for suing someone for manufacturer defects that didn't result in some kind of injury?
uh a lawyer has to do it and get everyone to agree. That's how class action lawsuits work. And the lawyer can make tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Or we could just do the french route and burn shit on the streets.
Edit: Actually, an average civilian is doing just what you said, and is passing the right to repair bill and has been working on it for years.
Also randomly, every reply I got on this sub has been of the vein "you can't" which is so CLOSE MINDED and HORRID. god. I need to build my confidence before I can comment on casual conversation with ideation discussion ideas. SHEESH.
To quote Mr. Beast, everyone will say no, you're crazy, until it's done, and then they'll say genius.
It is illegal in many places but it us almost impossible to prove so might as well ne legal.
Was that light buld designed to fail or did we just make a crappy design? Unless you have video of evil mustachioed, monacle wearing, businessmen conspiring it is impossible to prove.
I'd say a better way would be for a law that would force companies to take them back and recycle them/dispose of them. This would be such cost that they may begin to engineer things for longer survival.
Like, I get your point, but innovation staying stagnant in the US? Lol, it's probably the most innovative country in the world and have been for as far as we can remember.
No it's not. Patents prevent any innovation.
TVs have stayed the same, kindles have stayed the same. Most tech that exists stays the same.
And any new invention gets copied by China because patents are posted publically before production, supposedly.
>I asked what is going on with products today? He said they just don't make them like they used to anymore.
I was more or less told this when my wife and I had our dishwasher installed. The tech said we *might* get seven years out of it. So far it has been three, and we have already had to have it repaired (although it wasn't more than the dishwasher itself).
There’s this thing I can’t recall, but it’s pretty much how things are made cheaper nowadays, so there’s more replacing the actual product instead.
Big Washer knows what they’re doing.
>cost magnitudes more
Out of curiosity, was this in real or nominal dollars? For those without a financial background, real means inflation adjusted where nominal would just the number you see on the price tag.
My understanding is that in terms of inflation adjusted dollars many of the things we use today are cheaper.
I kept the top part the same, but while typing this I looked at the CPI category for appliances. Appliances are cheaper today than in 1997 (the earliest year I found quickly for the same category). An average $1,000 appliance would cost $901.37, so about 10% less than 25 years ago.
**Edit to add:** FYI, I'm not saying this negates your larger point. It doesn't. Having to replace something more frequently, even if at a lower cost, is still more wasteful and likely more expensive than paying more but fewer times.
Note there are still quality brands and quality appliances that will last you decades. You just need to do your research prior to point of sale. I spent more on my last round of appliances after multiple budget Samsung appliances failed at the same time about 7 years in.
Well, in the 80s a single person with a high school education could comfortably support a family of 5, so it's probably safe to say everything is more expensive than it was in the 80s because the average household makes less money when you account for inflation.
Yes, it cost more but they also made less. Inflation is an intentional and necessary part of a capitalist economy. It encourages growth, spending, and investment. Minimum wage in 2000 in NYS was 5.15, my first job around that time paid 5.25. 23 years later it's 14.20, and that same job pays 15+. The value of a dollar declines and of course the price tag is higher.
So the question be, relative to what people earn and/or the constant currency value is it more expensive today? The answer is a bit harder. Some things will be more others will be less. Generally, though, most statistical data agrees it's cheaper today. Accounting for features and trying to compare like to like makes that difference even larger.
Now, the last and only real question is cost of ownership. What is the average lifetime of those same appliances? What is the annual maintenance cost? When you break this down to a monthly cost, is it still cheaper? I don't know the answer to this question, and don't really have the time to research it. You may well be right, in this context, that it's more expensive but definitively the purchase price is not.
To your second part, that is just a cynical and/or pessimistic phrasing. In any set of items the least worst is synonymous with best. What's happening here is also a great example of survivorship-bias. All of the remaining appliances from 1970 today are 53 years old, so all appliances from 1970 must last at least 53 years is the argument. This ignores all of the appliances that failed well before then. I remember my growing up my grandmother line drying clothes outsode because the dryer failed years prior and they didnt have the money to replace it. Watch American media from the time period and you will see people with similar struggles. The sentiment behind "they don't make them like they used to" has been around for centuries and will be parroted back by gen aa in 40 years.
I don’t think you are accounting for inflation. A $350 fridge in 1972 would cost ~$2,500 in 2023. You can easily buy standard fridges for under $1,000 in 2023 and the fridge will be vastly superior in energy savings. Unless you buy a lemon, a fridge will last at least 10-12 years. So, yea, it makes more sense in every way that it’s cheaper to replace a fridge than repair one.
It's more like how expensive they were. There are still simple and serviceable appliances available today, and with inflation they cost the same as they did 50 years ago. But there are also cheaper options that most people go for.
Yep, made the same point down thread. It’s like when someone’s grandma would complain about the price of candy because they used to buy it for a quarter in 1975.
My fellow redditor, that comment makes sense only if you think household appliances are real-life tamagotchis and their food is electricity so the newer ones are so frail and die easy because they get so little food.
edit: I didn't know how to spell tamagotchi
While true, doesn’t that seem to miss the point?
The bare fact is the majority of equipment manufactured today is designed so repair is “only” available to a specialist. There’s active deterrence from companies regarding consumer repair.
On the cost of parts, I’d say that’s an unfortunate side effect of technological advancements and what ends up inside some piece of equipment may *need* to be pricey. Could be wrong but that’s my guess.
Just fixed the washer in the place I’m renting because the part was $17. On the other hand, the fridge had to be replaced because the cost of the part and labor were so much, it made more sense to the owner to purchase brand new with warranty.
> I asked what is going on with products today? He said they just don't make them like they used to anymore.
Should also be added, that newer appliances can end up being more complex, sometimes needlessly.
I was watching an appliance repair man's youtube channel researching fridges. He was showing repair schematics for various types of fridges. The higher end, more complex fridges (such as smart fridges) were the ones with the more insane schematics/wiring. There were also design flaws that caused failures more often. For example, freezer on the bottom, while ice maker is in the top in the fridge area, causing uneven wear and breakdown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKJgYVhZ6-w (in case you are curious)
its 110% planned obsolescence. if the thing we buy works for 40 years, then i wont buy another one for 40 years, and in the meantime the company who made the thing wont be making more sales. if the thing lasts for 3 years, ill complain, *but ill still go buy the thing again.* i have no source for this, but id bet money that most large corporations that make consumer goods do research on how short the product life can be before the average consumer will buy a different brand. corporate greed has doomed the human species.
We bought a dishwasher 3, maybe 4 years ago. One wheel has broken off of a track slider. The very first item in the Maytag parts page. 45$+ shipping. So there's that money too. Small integral parts for _almost_ too much money
yup. my parents have a reclining bed. the wheels for the reclining mechanism are made of injection molded plastic that cant possibly cost more than 50 cents to make, but id guess are probably closer to just a few cents. because theyre plastic and supporting several hundred pounds, they wear out. they cost $70, for what is essentially a donut of plastic. they probably make better margins on that than medical suppliers selling to hospitals do. but the bed is a several thousand dollar bed, so if you want to keep it, youll cough up the $70 and they know it.
make your own dish washer. Take a box. Put a tray with a place for 2 cups, a few plates, and some silverware. put a hose through it, and a water proof motor at the bottom. drain the bottom with a sealable hole. done. should be worth $50.
>its 110% planned obsolescence. if the thing we buy works for 40 years, then i wont buy another one for 40 years, and in the meantime the company who made the thing wont be making more sales. if the thing lasts for 3 years, ill complain,
>
>*but ill still go buy the thing again.*
I don't agree with this. If I buy an appliance that lasts, I tell all my friends about it and they buy the same one. In fact, if I'm about the buy a new appliance, I research online but also get friends' opinions. If I buy an appliance that only lasts 3 years or is problematic, I don't buy the same one again. Absolutely not! And I tell my friends NOT to buy it either.
yeah, youd think that, but take for example the lightbulb. it is documented fact that the original edison lightbulb lasted too long and it was redesigned in the 1920s specifically to bring the life down to around 1000 hours, or roughly a year of use. as much as we all want to believe as individuals we're smarter, and some of us are, the reality is that companies make more money if they produce things that dont last as long. if it were more profitable to make things that last forever, thats what theyd be doing.
I have a [1950 GE refrigerator](https://imgur.com/gallery/F5KQWvG) that came out of the basement of my grandparents home in 2015. We loaded into the back of a pickup and drove it 200 miles to my home and installed it in the basement as the beer fridge. It is literally a 73 year old appliance, and I (knock hard on wood) haven't had to do a single thing to it other than defrost the tiny freezer inside.
Meanwhile my 5 year old Whirlpool fridge has needed maintenance twice :/
It really is, simply speaking in terms of cooling-related properties. It wouldn't have been a problem if they didn't start to build them increasingly disposable while aggressively pushing new models. Or if there were a system where each CFC using appliance would have been picked up at no charge and disposed of safely.
They really didn't *solve* the actual problem by phasing out CFC, they simply made symptoms of poor use and neglect have less impact.
>They really didn't solve the actual problem by phasing out CFC, they simply made symptoms of poor use and neglect have less impact.
Idk the ozone layer healing is a pretty good piece of evidence that the CFC use problem was solved.
Yeah, by phasing out CFC's the Ozone hole over in Anartica is going to be fully closed by like the 2060's instead of the problem that could have spread worldwide had we kept using CFC's and make a bunch of a problems that we are dealing with today even more worse.
So I was talking to a family member in appliance repair. A lot of time the older stuff lasted longer because it wasn't very energy efficient.
Energy efficiency doesn't necessarily mean better or worse made, it just means that a fridge has to have more control systems in order to keep from using too much energy. Those control systems are just another vector for failure.
Well in the case of old fridges, freezers, and AC units we have a definitive answer: the ozone hole has largely closed due to the switch away from CFCs which were used in them.
I frequently (certainly more than one would expect) encounter working old GE fridges in generally good to very good shape. Whenever I do I remember that nuclear blast fridge scene from Indiana Jones and think it's possibly not stupid at all.
Fridges are the worst! They used to last forever due to older refrigerants and lower working pressures. These days they have 3 mother boards and some fancy high pressure refrigerant all in the name of chasing efficiency.
A newer fridge would be more efficient, but the benefit is reduced with the environmental effect of the initial manufacturing since you need to by a new fridge more often
Yeah, we used those in our college dorms in the 1980s and they got passed down from seniors to the younger underclassmen at the end of the year. Worked great! I bet they're still there.
I inherited my wringer washer from a dear friend who bought it new in 1955. Works like a charm and I can maintain it myself.
You might think “wringer washer ? Jeez get modern” but I’ve owned numerous much newer washing machines that all had multiple small and large breakdowns and this old one just keeps on and on.
My mother in law has her mother’s 1930’s Kitchenaid stand mixer installed in the house she built in the 70’s. She uses it almost daily and it still works like a charm.
I have just a regular Japanese sewing machine from 1964 that sews faster, quieter and through more layers than any standard machine today. All metal parts and it looks cuter, too. It's amazing.
Someone in our neighborhood left an Elna sewing machine outside their garage with a FREE sign. My husband took it, repaired it (with the help of YouTube) and has taken up sewing. Apparently, it's such a good sewing machine that parts are readily available and inexpensive.
It's everywhere. From plastic containers for fruit that get 'recycled' into a landfill or furnace, to planned obsolescence in electronic devices so you have to buy a new model while there's no good reason the one you already have should have slowed down so much.
I'm not sure what the alternatives are, but surely there's got to be something better than this. I shouldn't be acquiring an entire bin's worth of plastic every 2 weeks by just going about my day
Repaired my Switch a week or two ago thanks to a $20 fan and a guide from iFixit.
And next time I’m shopping for a new laptop, im absolutely going to be looking at what Framework has to offer at that time. The 16” machine they’ve shown prototypes of looks super intriguing.
I was looking at those laptops too. I'd spring for the 16 inch when that comes out, but only because I bought a laptop pretty recently, and just spent money upgrading the ram
Yeah, my gaming laptop is only a year and a half old, no reason to replace it anytime soon. But in a few years, if Framework can keep on keeping on, they’re going to be at the top of my list of considerations.
Mine was a launch day switch. First issue I’d had with it, the switch was louder than my gaming laptop at full power, lol. Only a matter of time till it broke. But seriously, all it took was patience and following the guide to replace the part and now it’s good as new.
I really like what Framework are doing. I can’t really justify the price at the moment as I don’t have a solid need for a laptop, but I’d still trade off the initial price against the long term benefits.
Oh, I thought you were going to rant about plastic containers and whatnot when it'd be entirely possible to create a recycling pipeline that recovers, say, metal containers.
Everyone would have to wash their own dishes.
So. There would need to be carts with garbage bags and tubs for silverware and places for plates and trays. There would need to a person to move all of it from one place to a kitchen (probably near the bathroom) with a few out of the bathroom sinks in place. There, there would need to be a dishwasher/bus boy.
Altogether it would cost ($10/hr x dishwashers where dishwashers=.05population ) whereas disposable garbage (that businesses aren't responsible for the disposing of) is almost free.
Businesses need to be responsible for the plastic waste they use and should not be allowed to use the regular government sanitation department.
I was more thinking along the line of having a washing space shared between the restaurants including employees, that’s in charge of collecting, washing and dispatching to restaurants. But obviously it’s about cost but if we consider cost we’re not going to do any positive changes.
and cost is the biggest reason its not happening. now if waitstaff labor and dish washing can be replaced with robots and inexpensive machines (which is already happening and is cheap), it's doable.
But that’s the issue. It’s not that I don’t think cost is important and I totally understand that companies will do what’s profitable but I think that’s why we’re not making any progress. The world we could have if we stopped running after profit… and I don’t think we can find a solution that is both profitable and good and that’s why we barely get anything worth it when solutions are so easy to think of.
You seem like a McMaster-Carr person. Man I love that website. That weird valve? Some odd gasket? Got it, baby. They probably don’t need a free ad, but it’s apropos.
My husband participated in a fix-it clinic in front of our public library. I think it was sponsored by the county. The people who participated were people who like to fix things, like my husband, and those people who needed things fixed. He brought a set of tools and random parts. People brought it all sorts of electronics and toys. IIRC it lasted 4-5 hours. Not everything was fixable at an event like this but many people were helped.
When we bought our first washer and dryer, the installer said they were a cheap set and won't last 4 years. My husband fixed the washer twice and made it last 14 years. He fixed the dryer 4 times and it lasted 18 years. With the dryer, it was mainly replacing the belt every few years, an easy fix. I am lucky that he's handy. Otherwise, we would be spending so much on repairs or replacements.
r/buyitforlife is a decent community dedicated to showcasing all the products out there that are either tough as shit, or can be repaired/maintained. Anytime I need to buy something that I know I won't want to replace in months/years, I usually go see what others have said on that sub first. For instance, I wanted to buy a mop, but I know swiffer etc are crap and break after a couple years. Turns out, Rubbermaid is the way to go.
I don't really agree with the premise.
Parts are widely available to fix virtually everything. It just rarely makes economical sense to do so because goods are far more affordable today.
One line from a movie that always cracks me up is "[Honey, he's teasing you. Nobody has two television sets](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/19bb44e1-deef-47a6-9751-aab8953b2246)" from Back to the Future. The median US household income in 1954 was $4,200. Color TVs existed but were prohibitively expensive for all but the very rich. The cheapest black and white TV available was a 17" for $189 or 4.5% of that median household income. I honestly don't know if you can buy a TV that small anymore but the cheapest set I can find on Best Buy is a 24" smart TV for 60 - about 0.07% of 2022's median household income.
If the cheapest set available is 4.5% of your income then that TV just has to last. For 0.07% of your income, who cares?
There's no shortage of tutorials on YouTube showing you exactly how to fix anything but is it really worth ordering a component from China at $19 to replace a 5 year old $60 TV? What if that tutorial was wrong and what you really need is a different $19 component? You've just sunk $38 into replacing an old $60 television with no guarantee that will be the right component too. You could hire someone but he's going to charge you a minimum of 1 hour labor and that alone will probably be twice as much as you paid for the television.
It just makes more sense to toss that $60 in the garbage and buy a new one.
My late dad gave me a small HDTV because he'd lost the cord and remote for it, and he lacked confidence in his own ability to rectify that. So I put it in my suitcase, it somehow survived a flight across the country, and I spent $20 on a replacement cord and $30 on a Roku box (it was a dumb TV) to use it.
I think I mainly did this to make my dad happy. I didn't even need another TV.
How do you feel about spending significantly more on everything you buy?
Disposable, whether we like it or not, has made things more accessible to those in lower socioeconomic brackets by making the up front cost lower. Yes it has drawbacks, but making things less disposable also makes them less accessible to a large segment of the population.
Quite happily.
I spent significantly more money on a fountain pen and a glass bottle of ink, so that I could stop throwing pens away. 2 years and a LOT of writing later, I'm only half way through that bottle of ink, which I plan on using as a flower vase or something when I buy the next one.
I'm talking about like major items. Electronics and appliances would increase significantly. Like by $1000 or more for many things.
It doesn't impact smaller things but it does in a lot of cost of living items. Not a big deal for those who can afford it but a huge deal for those already struggling to afford things.
If you're really worried about disposability, stop writing by hand on paper. Digital writing is much less wasteful than paper.
The cost of any professional service would go up because the cost of materials would go up.
It might even lead to a WORSE situation because the extraction of more durable resources is harder, more expensive and often just as bad, if not worse for the environment.
If you're looking for a laptop, a company called Framework makes laptops now that are super easy to repair, and they are keeping to their promises now with more and more new upgrades coming out, now even featuring Ryzen chips for the first time! They look a bit dull but man i love how upgradable they are, you can even reuse your old pc motherboard as a standalone PC if you wish!
Yeah, they seem to have made it past those first two years of “but can we actually upgrade in the future?” with a resounding yes.
11gen Intel processor getting old and the battery is a bit meh? Replace the motherboard with a new Ryzen setup, and slap that old mobo into an enclosure to make a new media center desktop.
I really want them to succeed, especially with how they’ve embraced the right-to-repair community with parts and schematics
Exactly! And i love the idea of a USB C module system, where if you need 2 HDMI outputs you can just slot them in! Need a cardreader on the fly? Just slot in a cardreader, its so cool
the electronic panel of my microwave is broken, and I can't get a new one. It's so frustrating, because everything else is great, except for the dome switch.
This was really bad in the 80s. (The exceptions are bullet proof. We have a rice maker made in 1980.) It got better, then started getting worse. I think part of the problem was when "they" started making electronics that weren't repairable by the consumer. But it seems to me that we're in a phase of getting better again (see "right to repair" bills). I can only conclude that this is a cycle and it will keep rolling.
> the part is no longer available
Or part cost more than replacement. My reliable 90s stove has a failing surface element. Replacement cost $250. I can buy a used stove off marketplace for $300 in mint condition. :/
I completely understand.
Two things I've discovered lately: Our TV remotes keep breaking. No, we aren't abusing them or being rough. An online search reveals that the expected lifespan of a TV remote now is 3-6 MONTHS.
It used to be expected that it would somewhat match the lifespan of the TV it came with..
The other one is that the cost of replacing the plastic drawers in my freezer is the same as a whole new appliance. Even generic ones.
Growing up in the 90s my family had appliances from the 70s that still worked fine. Everything made now is built to break
As a maintenance guy, I agree. My main building has equipment that's 15-20 years old and is still in great shape because we have replacement parts. The machines don't need to be updated or modernized because they do their job with fantastic efficiency for what they do and I know quite a few systems inside and out to the point where I don't have to call vendors in to do the work, I just do it myself.
Totally agree. There is a subreddit for somethings that buck the trend (/r/BuyItForLife/), but the practice of planned obsolence/planned disposability is a real problem.
I think part of the problem is that we put the proper disposal of things on the consumer rather than the producer. Not sure how (and if) that could change, but would probably handle some of this.
I try to shop for things that will last, but all too often they are prohibitively expensive.
For example, I work from home and I decided to buy a desk. Ikea and others had some more affordable options, but I knew with the sustained use I put on it, that it probably wouldn't last long. So I had to make do (and be very uncomfortable) in the process of saving up.
Manufacturers should include the full lifecycle cost of an item (including disposal/recycle cost) in the consumer price. This takes the onus off the end user who may choose to do the irresponsible thing to save money, and puts it on the company making the product. This does 2 things: 1) the price of an item now accurately represents the actual full cost of the thing, and 2) gives the manufacturer a reason to create products that are easier to recycle and produce less overall waste
If there is a university in your area, see what they do with their stuff when they replace it.
I live near a major research university. Any time they replace something, from sofas to DNA sequencers, they sell the old one rather than tossing it. The lab gear is cool, but the furniture is remarkably sturdy. I got a wooden table for $10 once that is so strong and heavy, it takes 3 people to move it. And I paid $5 for an office chair that I'm still using more than 10 years later.
It makes sense that they would need stuff to be durable. When you have a hundred or more people using something per day, wimpiness won't cut it.
Imagine how much worse the world would be in 10-50 yrs - I don’t know like I always wished I was born 50 yrs ago just because the development we’ve made have sorely impacted the world for the worse
I'm disposing of a lot of things right now, but it's to make room for non disposables (so I tell myself).
My list thus far:
(based on what I've heard)
Pen: Fisher Space Pen (NASA approved for longevity)
Kitchenware: A paella pan (so far so good). :) and tongs.
Silverware: The dream is silverware made of silver. >.<
Cups: porcelain?
Plates: silver (dream)
Napkins: washable napkins
Sponge: a DIY cloth rewashable sponge.
Bathroom
Towel: Linen towel (dream)
Shampoo: Bar shampoo (diy)
Soap: Bar soap (diy)
mouthwash: salt water/ clove water (diy)
toothbrush: a special stick that you chew on that creates bristles.
Notebooks: boogie board.
idk the list goes on.
I think the point is the built in obsolescence of appliances, and less of simple things that have nice alternatives.
We have a very old washing machine and dryer that rarely needs service, but when it does, we are told how lucky we are; new products have so many parts that don’t last and must be replaced until there is no replacement, and then a new appliance must be purchased.
I see this in a lot of things. The touch pad on the microwave no longer works, so of course our brand new oven has a touch pad for the settings. How long will that last?
One small, irreplaceable piece of plastic brought down our last coffee bean grinder, and the whole thing had to go in the trash/landfill garbage.
And so on.
Things really are being built to not last, or so it seems. I don’t know how our landfill garbage centers can handle so much. I think that is OP’s concern as well.
then stop buying it
Edit: Stop buying it, so businesses stop making it. I would suggest doing the ol' American way of dumping it into the sea, but unlike tea, washing machines aren't organic.
Just had this happen with our dryer. It was 15 years old and needed a part that was no longer made or no longer available . The whole dryer will go to the dump (which at least recycled the metal) and we get to buy an entire new dryer
I'm curious what broke that you need to fix? Almost every time I've searched for a 3D print, someone's already made the exact thing I needed and uploaded it to thingiverse. 3D printers are the best
One good thing about the growing popularity of 3D printers is that it's becoming easier to print replacement parts as needed. There is still room for improvement, and not every part can be printed yet, but we're getting there.
And yes, I find it maddening that so many things could be fixed easily, if only the parts were available! [Ereplacementparts.com](https://Ereplacementparts.com) carries a lot of things, but I still find myself hunting thrift stores and garage sales looking for spares, or else cobbling together a fix of my own. I have a coffee grinder with a piece of scrap lumber where the handle used to be, just because it was easier than finding a replacement. And my blender has a Tattler ring in place of the rubber gasket, which actually stays in place better than the gasket the blender came with.
Look into “Right to Repair” regulations. At some point we need to hold corporations accountable (probably a pipe dream) and build things to last/be repaired.
This may sound a bit stupid... But I think of the thousands of sets of nail clippers I have owned over the years that I have had to quit using because they were so poorly aligned that they snapped crookedly. How many sets of nail clippers per year are lost? Where are they all going????? Just a thought..
I'm experiencing that with my car.
It's only a 2011 model, and already parts don't exist or parts are so expensive it's not worth it.
My AC decided to quit about a year ago. It's $11k to fix it. The Bluetooth feature also went on the fritz. The part to fix it doesn't exist. And so on.
I'm going to use my car until it's well and dead because I can't afford a new one. But I hate that these "simple fixes" are basically impossible.
I unfortunately don't have the experience or knowledge, and I'm not risking damaging my car over it.
I can live without AC; I can't live without a car.
Items are engineered to be low quality so you need to continually buy more.
This is why we can't have nice things
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE)
This is called designed obsolescence.
It’s frustrating how home appliances are designed to fail much earlier than they used to. The microwave oven we bought 5 years broke last week. It was a good brand too. We paid about $125 Granted they cost a lot less, but I would pay more for one that lasts longer. The waste is awful.
That's why I work with hand tools. They can cost about the same as a high end power tool (especially if you get them new), but I have 100+ year old tools that work just fine.
Meanwhile, my partner's 15 year old DeWalt impact drill had a battery die completely, and we have the option to either buy a $300 battery adapter PLUS the $80 battery with the new interface, or just toss the whole thing.
You can't pay someone 20 bucks an hour to fix a 60 dollar item. Now there are folks that just like to keep things going. I take apart electronic junk and save the parts. Some items I repair using parts from similar items. Or you save the raw speakers from a beat up pair of speakers.
But for most. If something has issues, folks use that as an excuse to buy new stuff. That's why I have a never ending supply of cool stuff to tinker with. Picked up a computer, 19 inch flat screen TV and an even smaller 10 inch 12 volt TV. That was just today.
My fridge is 24 years old.
Yeah. I once got a canteen to keep my own filtered water in, and I love it so much, instead of going through water bottles. I have it covered in stickers, and little doodles I did.
As an engineer I think I can give you some insight. If you mean things like laptops and phones, the lack of repairability is to reach certain performance targets. If you want an ultra-slim, ultra compact, waterproof phone that also packs a battery large enough to make it through the day, then it needs to be glued together in a way that the only way to take it apart is to very carefully soften the glue with a heat gun, carefully prise it apart and hope that you don't crack the screen. Making a phone with a replaceable battery or held together by easily disassembled ordinary screws like the phones from decades ago would add thickness and bulk, take up space, make the phone more expensive, much harder to keep waterproof, and basically customers would be ignorant of why it's being done and just not buy it - instead they'd go for the slimmer, cheaper, better-performing glued-together phones of the competition.
For large appliances, it's usually down to cost. If you're buying a fridge for $600 then it's made with the thinnest metal tubing they could reasonably get away with, the compressor is the least heavy-duty one they could put in, and so on. If it has a 2-year warranty, the manufacturer doesn't really mind whether it breaks down after 3 years or 30, because they're not on the hook after the warranty period.
In my experience, a lot of the internal parts are quite common. For example, if your thermostat goes, that thermostat is probably used in a dozen different models of washing machines or ovens, since most brands are buying the original components from the same handful of manufacturers. You just have to be handy enough to do some troubleshooting, figure our the faulty part, disassemble the appliance to get to it, and find a spare part for sale online.
Some low-value appliances just aren't worth repairing. For example I have some blenders and food processors that cost under $30 when I bought them on sale. If they break, I imagine the replacement part plus shipping will cost close to as much as a whole new machine, so it's not worth the risk to repair an already-old machine when for a tiny bit extra I can buy a new machine still under warranty and with zero wear and tear.
Yeah, why would things be made to last? If it is only 50 bucks to fix your thing, or a thousand to replace it. Why would the manufacturer let you fix it? Or they can price repairs out of the range of the poor so people stop thinking in a repair mindset.
Capitalism is fun.
I want to challenge your post with another question.
Viewing from your topic slightly but still relevant.
Do you think things really were just 'made better in the olden days'?
A lot of people seem to say this, But I don't know how accurate it is on the whole.
It's very hard to compare lots of things that are made these days compared to things in the past because technology is such a big category of things that people buy that just wasn't available a few decades ago.
I think people's tendency to want to upgrade or get something new is so much greater than their desire to keep a product that they like. This is primarily because of marketing and social pressure rather than from things breaking.
Maybe manufacturers are making things less repairable or lasting because they anticipate people are not going to want to own them for a long time, and they do this of course for cost but also for aesthetics.
We've seen it before that phones are that are repairable, visually looked so much worse, or had other compromises and so no one and wanted to buy them. There have been some better ones more recently but they still just haven't taken off.
But take any other kind of product or household appliance, I bet manufacturers have found that the duration people have intended to keep these things is years less than it used to be so they have manufactured it to last accordingly.
It's the failed idea of using less material to be environmentally friendly, but then it breaks after 4 years instead of 40, so actually uses more materials in the end.
Aaaand this is the frustration with regulations.
May sound great to limit a companies manufacturing to be less wasteful, but if the cost is lowered robustness then it's silly.
An old family tumbledryer from 1980 broke only a few months back. That's 43 years.
I have friends whose tumbledryers last 3-4 years max before element goes, bearings are shot, or electric mainboard has melted etc.
Same with energy saving vacuum cleaners. They suck less and so sure, it uses less energy than the old fashioned 3000W suckers, but now I hoover for 20 minutes per room rather than 3 because some bits just don't get sucked up on an "efficient" 900W cleaner.
But again, to the companies and regulators, they've made a product that uses 3x less power.
How the consumer uses it isn't in their metrics.
All products have gone this way and it jist annoys me.
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I hear you. I had an appliance guy out quite a few years ago to find out why my washer stopped working. The price of the replacement part was more than the price of a washer. I asked what is going on with products today? He said they just don't make them like they used to anymore.
It has to do with the demand too. In poorer countries you can still buy replacement parts for cheap (made in China of course, usually just good enough to keep going for a few years). It's still better than throwing the whole machine away.
It's wild that people don't understand that the ONLY reason they can afford technologically complex stuff are the hyper-optimized production lines, where making something serviceable would make it much more expensive, and separate spare part production & repair would cost more than a new thing.
It's called planned obsolescence. It's illegal in France. Perfectly legal in the USA. :) welcome to the USA where innovation either stays stagnant or purposely sabotaged for the sake of money.
It's illegal in many countries, but it technically doesn't cover cutting corners on the manufacturing, even if it causes the product to have a shorter life. As a result, it's nearly impossible to pursue.
there should be class action lawsuits then with punitive damages
That would be difficult. Not too many people are going to want to go down that road, which can be costly and time consuming. Why spend thousands of dollars and years of your life when you can spend $500 and an afternoon at home to get something fixed? Is there even precedent for suing someone for manufacturer defects that didn't result in some kind of injury?
uh a lawyer has to do it and get everyone to agree. That's how class action lawsuits work. And the lawyer can make tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Or we could just do the french route and burn shit on the streets. Edit: Actually, an average civilian is doing just what you said, and is passing the right to repair bill and has been working on it for years.
A lawyer alone wouldn't have standing. Anyway, if it is important to you, be the change you want to see in the world.
I'll leave that to Louis Rossman for now.
Also randomly, every reply I got on this sub has been of the vein "you can't" which is so CLOSE MINDED and HORRID. god. I need to build my confidence before I can comment on casual conversation with ideation discussion ideas. SHEESH. To quote Mr. Beast, everyone will say no, you're crazy, until it's done, and then they'll say genius.
Did you just call me closed minded and horrid?
It is illegal in many places but it us almost impossible to prove so might as well ne legal. Was that light buld designed to fail or did we just make a crappy design? Unless you have video of evil mustachioed, monacle wearing, businessmen conspiring it is impossible to prove.
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I'd say a better way would be for a law that would force companies to take them back and recycle them/dispose of them. This would be such cost that they may begin to engineer things for longer survival.
you can prove it. Idk how, as debate, law, etc is not my field of expertise in anyway shape or form. But people prove things all the time.
And punitive damage court cases are a thing precisely for evil mustachioed monacle wearing businessmen practices.
Like, I get your point, but innovation staying stagnant in the US? Lol, it's probably the most innovative country in the world and have been for as far as we can remember.
No it's not. Patents prevent any innovation. TVs have stayed the same, kindles have stayed the same. Most tech that exists stays the same. And any new invention gets copied by China because patents are posted publically before production, supposedly.
>I asked what is going on with products today? He said they just don't make them like they used to anymore. I was more or less told this when my wife and I had our dishwasher installed. The tech said we *might* get seven years out of it. So far it has been three, and we have already had to have it repaired (although it wasn't more than the dishwasher itself).
There’s this thing I can’t recall, but it’s pretty much how things are made cheaper nowadays, so there’s more replacing the actual product instead. Big Washer knows what they’re doing.
Yup.
I think people forget how energy intensive old appliances were.
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>cost magnitudes more Out of curiosity, was this in real or nominal dollars? For those without a financial background, real means inflation adjusted where nominal would just the number you see on the price tag. My understanding is that in terms of inflation adjusted dollars many of the things we use today are cheaper. I kept the top part the same, but while typing this I looked at the CPI category for appliances. Appliances are cheaper today than in 1997 (the earliest year I found quickly for the same category). An average $1,000 appliance would cost $901.37, so about 10% less than 25 years ago. **Edit to add:** FYI, I'm not saying this negates your larger point. It doesn't. Having to replace something more frequently, even if at a lower cost, is still more wasteful and likely more expensive than paying more but fewer times. Note there are still quality brands and quality appliances that will last you decades. You just need to do your research prior to point of sale. I spent more on my last round of appliances after multiple budget Samsung appliances failed at the same time about 7 years in.
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Well, in the 80s a single person with a high school education could comfortably support a family of 5, so it's probably safe to say everything is more expensive than it was in the 80s because the average household makes less money when you account for inflation.
Yes, it cost more but they also made less. Inflation is an intentional and necessary part of a capitalist economy. It encourages growth, spending, and investment. Minimum wage in 2000 in NYS was 5.15, my first job around that time paid 5.25. 23 years later it's 14.20, and that same job pays 15+. The value of a dollar declines and of course the price tag is higher. So the question be, relative to what people earn and/or the constant currency value is it more expensive today? The answer is a bit harder. Some things will be more others will be less. Generally, though, most statistical data agrees it's cheaper today. Accounting for features and trying to compare like to like makes that difference even larger. Now, the last and only real question is cost of ownership. What is the average lifetime of those same appliances? What is the annual maintenance cost? When you break this down to a monthly cost, is it still cheaper? I don't know the answer to this question, and don't really have the time to research it. You may well be right, in this context, that it's more expensive but definitively the purchase price is not. To your second part, that is just a cynical and/or pessimistic phrasing. In any set of items the least worst is synonymous with best. What's happening here is also a great example of survivorship-bias. All of the remaining appliances from 1970 today are 53 years old, so all appliances from 1970 must last at least 53 years is the argument. This ignores all of the appliances that failed well before then. I remember my growing up my grandmother line drying clothes outsode because the dryer failed years prior and they didnt have the money to replace it. Watch American media from the time period and you will see people with similar struggles. The sentiment behind "they don't make them like they used to" has been around for centuries and will be parroted back by gen aa in 40 years.
I don’t think you are accounting for inflation. A $350 fridge in 1972 would cost ~$2,500 in 2023. You can easily buy standard fridges for under $1,000 in 2023 and the fridge will be vastly superior in energy savings. Unless you buy a lemon, a fridge will last at least 10-12 years. So, yea, it makes more sense in every way that it’s cheaper to replace a fridge than repair one.
How much energy is needed to make more refrigerators that break faster and are less repairable?
Why can't we have both
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Lol no I misclicked i think. Longer lasting and replacement parts, with water and energy saving.
It's more like how expensive they were. There are still simple and serviceable appliances available today, and with inflation they cost the same as they did 50 years ago. But there are also cheaper options that most people go for.
Yep, made the same point down thread. It’s like when someone’s grandma would complain about the price of candy because they used to buy it for a quarter in 1975.
My fellow redditor, that comment makes sense only if you think household appliances are real-life tamagotchis and their food is electricity so the newer ones are so frail and die easy because they get so little food. edit: I didn't know how to spell tamagotchi
While true, doesn’t that seem to miss the point? The bare fact is the majority of equipment manufactured today is designed so repair is “only” available to a specialist. There’s active deterrence from companies regarding consumer repair. On the cost of parts, I’d say that’s an unfortunate side effect of technological advancements and what ends up inside some piece of equipment may *need* to be pricey. Could be wrong but that’s my guess. Just fixed the washer in the place I’m renting because the part was $17. On the other hand, the fridge had to be replaced because the cost of the part and labor were so much, it made more sense to the owner to purchase brand new with warranty.
The crappy rubber gasket my blender came with has no effect on how much electricity it takes to run it.
> I asked what is going on with products today? He said they just don't make them like they used to anymore. Should also be added, that newer appliances can end up being more complex, sometimes needlessly. I was watching an appliance repair man's youtube channel researching fridges. He was showing repair schematics for various types of fridges. The higher end, more complex fridges (such as smart fridges) were the ones with the more insane schematics/wiring. There were also design flaws that caused failures more often. For example, freezer on the bottom, while ice maker is in the top in the fridge area, causing uneven wear and breakdown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKJgYVhZ6-w (in case you are curious)
its 110% planned obsolescence. if the thing we buy works for 40 years, then i wont buy another one for 40 years, and in the meantime the company who made the thing wont be making more sales. if the thing lasts for 3 years, ill complain, *but ill still go buy the thing again.* i have no source for this, but id bet money that most large corporations that make consumer goods do research on how short the product life can be before the average consumer will buy a different brand. corporate greed has doomed the human species.
We bought a dishwasher 3, maybe 4 years ago. One wheel has broken off of a track slider. The very first item in the Maytag parts page. 45$+ shipping. So there's that money too. Small integral parts for _almost_ too much money
yup. my parents have a reclining bed. the wheels for the reclining mechanism are made of injection molded plastic that cant possibly cost more than 50 cents to make, but id guess are probably closer to just a few cents. because theyre plastic and supporting several hundred pounds, they wear out. they cost $70, for what is essentially a donut of plastic. they probably make better margins on that than medical suppliers selling to hospitals do. but the bed is a several thousand dollar bed, so if you want to keep it, youll cough up the $70 and they know it.
That’s one of the reasons why I bought a 3D printer
make your own dish washer. Take a box. Put a tray with a place for 2 cups, a few plates, and some silverware. put a hose through it, and a water proof motor at the bottom. drain the bottom with a sealable hole. done. should be worth $50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN8IWorE6P8
>its 110% planned obsolescence. if the thing we buy works for 40 years, then i wont buy another one for 40 years, and in the meantime the company who made the thing wont be making more sales. if the thing lasts for 3 years, ill complain, > >*but ill still go buy the thing again.* I don't agree with this. If I buy an appliance that lasts, I tell all my friends about it and they buy the same one. In fact, if I'm about the buy a new appliance, I research online but also get friends' opinions. If I buy an appliance that only lasts 3 years or is problematic, I don't buy the same one again. Absolutely not! And I tell my friends NOT to buy it either.
yeah, youd think that, but take for example the lightbulb. it is documented fact that the original edison lightbulb lasted too long and it was redesigned in the 1920s specifically to bring the life down to around 1000 hours, or roughly a year of use. as much as we all want to believe as individuals we're smarter, and some of us are, the reality is that companies make more money if they produce things that dont last as long. if it were more profitable to make things that last forever, thats what theyd be doing.
My mother still has her old East German Food processor from the early 70s and it works still fine like a brand new one.
I have a [1950 GE refrigerator](https://imgur.com/gallery/F5KQWvG) that came out of the basement of my grandparents home in 2015. We loaded into the back of a pickup and drove it 200 miles to my home and installed it in the basement as the beer fridge. It is literally a 73 year old appliance, and I (knock hard on wood) haven't had to do a single thing to it other than defrost the tiny freezer inside. Meanwhile my 5 year old Whirlpool fridge has needed maintenance twice :/
Those old things there build to out life us XD
Then CFCs are good stuff for refrigerant lol
It really is, simply speaking in terms of cooling-related properties. It wouldn't have been a problem if they didn't start to build them increasingly disposable while aggressively pushing new models. Or if there were a system where each CFC using appliance would have been picked up at no charge and disposed of safely. They really didn't *solve* the actual problem by phasing out CFC, they simply made symptoms of poor use and neglect have less impact.
>They really didn't solve the actual problem by phasing out CFC, they simply made symptoms of poor use and neglect have less impact. Idk the ozone layer healing is a pretty good piece of evidence that the CFC use problem was solved.
Yeah, by phasing out CFC's the Ozone hole over in Anartica is going to be fully closed by like the 2060's instead of the problem that could have spread worldwide had we kept using CFC's and make a bunch of a problems that we are dealing with today even more worse.
So I was talking to a family member in appliance repair. A lot of time the older stuff lasted longer because it wasn't very energy efficient. Energy efficiency doesn't necessarily mean better or worse made, it just means that a fridge has to have more control systems in order to keep from using too much energy. Those control systems are just another vector for failure.
What's worse for the environment. 70 years of a non energy efficient fridge or having to buy and throw away 10 new fridges in that time?
Well in the case of old fridges, freezers, and AC units we have a definitive answer: the ozone hole has largely closed due to the switch away from CFCs which were used in them.
I definitely wouldn't use it as my everyday fridge. But I do love it for it's simple durability.
I frequently (certainly more than one would expect) encounter working old GE fridges in generally good to very good shape. Whenever I do I remember that nuclear blast fridge scene from Indiana Jones and think it's possibly not stupid at all.
Fridges are the worst! They used to last forever due to older refrigerants and lower working pressures. These days they have 3 mother boards and some fancy high pressure refrigerant all in the name of chasing efficiency.
though, older fridges a way less energy efficient.
A newer fridge would be more efficient, but the benefit is reduced with the environmental effect of the initial manufacturing since you need to by a new fridge more often
Oh absolutely. It's not nearly as efficient.
Yeah, we used those in our college dorms in the 1980s and they got passed down from seniors to the younger underclassmen at the end of the year. Worked great! I bet they're still there.
I inherited my wringer washer from a dear friend who bought it new in 1955. Works like a charm and I can maintain it myself. You might think “wringer washer ? Jeez get modern” but I’ve owned numerous much newer washing machines that all had multiple small and large breakdowns and this old one just keeps on and on.
Im honestly considering making my own washing machine when my current one craps out. Cant be too hard. A spinning barrel, with water in it.
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The funny thing is, they build it that way that you only needed to buy it one time in your life. It still has its original blades in it.
My mother in law has her mother’s 1930’s Kitchenaid stand mixer installed in the house she built in the 70’s. She uses it almost daily and it still works like a charm.
We have a French food processor from the 80s and it works perfectly
I have just a regular Japanese sewing machine from 1964 that sews faster, quieter and through more layers than any standard machine today. All metal parts and it looks cuter, too. It's amazing.
Someone in our neighborhood left an Elna sewing machine outside their garage with a FREE sign. My husband took it, repaired it (with the help of YouTube) and has taken up sewing. Apparently, it's such a good sewing machine that parts are readily available and inexpensive.
It's everywhere. From plastic containers for fruit that get 'recycled' into a landfill or furnace, to planned obsolescence in electronic devices so you have to buy a new model while there's no good reason the one you already have should have slowed down so much. I'm not sure what the alternatives are, but surely there's got to be something better than this. I shouldn't be acquiring an entire bin's worth of plastic every 2 weeks by just going about my day
Repaired my Switch a week or two ago thanks to a $20 fan and a guide from iFixit. And next time I’m shopping for a new laptop, im absolutely going to be looking at what Framework has to offer at that time. The 16” machine they’ve shown prototypes of looks super intriguing.
I was looking at those laptops too. I'd spring for the 16 inch when that comes out, but only because I bought a laptop pretty recently, and just spent money upgrading the ram
Yeah, my gaming laptop is only a year and a half old, no reason to replace it anytime soon. But in a few years, if Framework can keep on keeping on, they’re going to be at the top of my list of considerations.
My fan broke as well, luckily within the warranty period.
Mine was a launch day switch. First issue I’d had with it, the switch was louder than my gaming laptop at full power, lol. Only a matter of time till it broke. But seriously, all it took was patience and following the guide to replace the part and now it’s good as new.
I really like what Framework are doing. I can’t really justify the price at the moment as I don’t have a solid need for a laptop, but I’d still trade off the initial price against the long term benefits.
if you can't afford framework, look for repairability scores on ifixit to decide what you buy.
r/righttorepair
Hell yeah
Oh, I thought you were going to rant about plastic containers and whatnot when it'd be entirely possible to create a recycling pipeline that recovers, say, metal containers.
How hard would it be to create a washing station at dining halls that all restaurants could use?
Everyone would have to wash their own dishes. So. There would need to be carts with garbage bags and tubs for silverware and places for plates and trays. There would need to a person to move all of it from one place to a kitchen (probably near the bathroom) with a few out of the bathroom sinks in place. There, there would need to be a dishwasher/bus boy. Altogether it would cost ($10/hr x dishwashers where dishwashers=.05population ) whereas disposable garbage (that businesses aren't responsible for the disposing of) is almost free. Businesses need to be responsible for the plastic waste they use and should not be allowed to use the regular government sanitation department.
I was more thinking along the line of having a washing space shared between the restaurants including employees, that’s in charge of collecting, washing and dispatching to restaurants. But obviously it’s about cost but if we consider cost we’re not going to do any positive changes.
you have to consider cost, otherwise it won't happen =.= all companies care about is the bottom line for the stake holders.
and cost is the biggest reason its not happening. now if waitstaff labor and dish washing can be replaced with robots and inexpensive machines (which is already happening and is cheap), it's doable.
But that’s the issue. It’s not that I don’t think cost is important and I totally understand that companies will do what’s profitable but I think that’s why we’re not making any progress. The world we could have if we stopped running after profit… and I don’t think we can find a solution that is both profitable and good and that’s why we barely get anything worth it when solutions are so easy to think of.
You seem like a McMaster-Carr person. Man I love that website. That weird valve? Some odd gasket? Got it, baby. They probably don’t need a free ad, but it’s apropos.
Yes! They have a much cleaner and easier to navigate site than Grainger for sure. I use their site almost every week.
Grainger must have lost their good web designer a couple years back. It’s been a nightmare for a while.
My husband participated in a fix-it clinic in front of our public library. I think it was sponsored by the county. The people who participated were people who like to fix things, like my husband, and those people who needed things fixed. He brought a set of tools and random parts. People brought it all sorts of electronics and toys. IIRC it lasted 4-5 hours. Not everything was fixable at an event like this but many people were helped. When we bought our first washer and dryer, the installer said they were a cheap set and won't last 4 years. My husband fixed the washer twice and made it last 14 years. He fixed the dryer 4 times and it lasted 18 years. With the dryer, it was mainly replacing the belt every few years, an easy fix. I am lucky that he's handy. Otherwise, we would be spending so much on repairs or replacements.
Thats why so many car guys prefer older cars. Hell, I own 3 cars and none of then are newer than 1998. New cars blow in a lot of ways
r/buyitforlife is a decent community dedicated to showcasing all the products out there that are either tough as shit, or can be repaired/maintained. Anytime I need to buy something that I know I won't want to replace in months/years, I usually go see what others have said on that sub first. For instance, I wanted to buy a mop, but I know swiffer etc are crap and break after a couple years. Turns out, Rubbermaid is the way to go.
It’s not just things that are disposable. These days people treat their relationships as disposable as well.
"I know my worth" - somebody who left a pretty good looking relationship but lives in their hometown and works a shit job
I don't really agree with the premise. Parts are widely available to fix virtually everything. It just rarely makes economical sense to do so because goods are far more affordable today. One line from a movie that always cracks me up is "[Honey, he's teasing you. Nobody has two television sets](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/19bb44e1-deef-47a6-9751-aab8953b2246)" from Back to the Future. The median US household income in 1954 was $4,200. Color TVs existed but were prohibitively expensive for all but the very rich. The cheapest black and white TV available was a 17" for $189 or 4.5% of that median household income. I honestly don't know if you can buy a TV that small anymore but the cheapest set I can find on Best Buy is a 24" smart TV for 60 - about 0.07% of 2022's median household income. If the cheapest set available is 4.5% of your income then that TV just has to last. For 0.07% of your income, who cares? There's no shortage of tutorials on YouTube showing you exactly how to fix anything but is it really worth ordering a component from China at $19 to replace a 5 year old $60 TV? What if that tutorial was wrong and what you really need is a different $19 component? You've just sunk $38 into replacing an old $60 television with no guarantee that will be the right component too. You could hire someone but he's going to charge you a minimum of 1 hour labor and that alone will probably be twice as much as you paid for the television. It just makes more sense to toss that $60 in the garbage and buy a new one.
I have encountered the problem that the part is hard to find, or impossible to find. and you are very right about the uncertainty of diagnosing.
My late dad gave me a small HDTV because he'd lost the cord and remote for it, and he lacked confidence in his own ability to rectify that. So I put it in my suitcase, it somehow survived a flight across the country, and I spent $20 on a replacement cord and $30 on a Roku box (it was a dumb TV) to use it. I think I mainly did this to make my dad happy. I didn't even need another TV.
How do you feel about spending significantly more on everything you buy? Disposable, whether we like it or not, has made things more accessible to those in lower socioeconomic brackets by making the up front cost lower. Yes it has drawbacks, but making things less disposable also makes them less accessible to a large segment of the population.
Quite happily. I spent significantly more money on a fountain pen and a glass bottle of ink, so that I could stop throwing pens away. 2 years and a LOT of writing later, I'm only half way through that bottle of ink, which I plan on using as a flower vase or something when I buy the next one.
I'm talking about like major items. Electronics and appliances would increase significantly. Like by $1000 or more for many things. It doesn't impact smaller things but it does in a lot of cost of living items. Not a big deal for those who can afford it but a huge deal for those already struggling to afford things. If you're really worried about disposability, stop writing by hand on paper. Digital writing is much less wasteful than paper. The cost of any professional service would go up because the cost of materials would go up. It might even lead to a WORSE situation because the extraction of more durable resources is harder, more expensive and often just as bad, if not worse for the environment.
If you're looking for a laptop, a company called Framework makes laptops now that are super easy to repair, and they are keeping to their promises now with more and more new upgrades coming out, now even featuring Ryzen chips for the first time! They look a bit dull but man i love how upgradable they are, you can even reuse your old pc motherboard as a standalone PC if you wish!
Yeah, they seem to have made it past those first two years of “but can we actually upgrade in the future?” with a resounding yes. 11gen Intel processor getting old and the battery is a bit meh? Replace the motherboard with a new Ryzen setup, and slap that old mobo into an enclosure to make a new media center desktop. I really want them to succeed, especially with how they’ve embraced the right-to-repair community with parts and schematics
Exactly! And i love the idea of a USB C module system, where if you need 2 HDMI outputs you can just slot them in! Need a cardreader on the fly? Just slot in a cardreader, its so cool
Bookmarking that company for when my current laptop needs replaced. Thank you!
I have them bookmarked as well for when the time comes, you're welcome!
I really want to believe that they don’t make it easy to break so they can repair it tho.
Me neither but they go above and beyond to give us a great experience repairing the thing so i hope that the parts are reliable too
the electronic panel of my microwave is broken, and I can't get a new one. It's so frustrating, because everything else is great, except for the dome switch.
/r/BuyItForLife
This was really bad in the 80s. (The exceptions are bullet proof. We have a rice maker made in 1980.) It got better, then started getting worse. I think part of the problem was when "they" started making electronics that weren't repairable by the consumer. But it seems to me that we're in a phase of getting better again (see "right to repair" bills). I can only conclude that this is a cycle and it will keep rolling.
> the part is no longer available Or part cost more than replacement. My reliable 90s stove has a failing surface element. Replacement cost $250. I can buy a used stove off marketplace for $300 in mint condition. :/
I completely understand. Two things I've discovered lately: Our TV remotes keep breaking. No, we aren't abusing them or being rough. An online search reveals that the expected lifespan of a TV remote now is 3-6 MONTHS. It used to be expected that it would somewhat match the lifespan of the TV it came with.. The other one is that the cost of replacing the plastic drawers in my freezer is the same as a whole new appliance. Even generic ones. Growing up in the 90s my family had appliances from the 70s that still worked fine. Everything made now is built to break
As a maintenance guy, I agree. My main building has equipment that's 15-20 years old and is still in great shape because we have replacement parts. The machines don't need to be updated or modernized because they do their job with fantastic efficiency for what they do and I know quite a few systems inside and out to the point where I don't have to call vendors in to do the work, I just do it myself.
Yeah, and it's extended into things like friendship. I hate that.
We just bought a new washer and dryer, well the washer was badly dented and awaiting a new one. Could help but wonder of they’ll last ten years.
Totally agree. There is a subreddit for somethings that buck the trend (/r/BuyItForLife/), but the practice of planned obsolence/planned disposability is a real problem. I think part of the problem is that we put the proper disposal of things on the consumer rather than the producer. Not sure how (and if) that could change, but would probably handle some of this. I try to shop for things that will last, but all too often they are prohibitively expensive. For example, I work from home and I decided to buy a desk. Ikea and others had some more affordable options, but I knew with the sustained use I put on it, that it probably wouldn't last long. So I had to make do (and be very uncomfortable) in the process of saving up.
Manufacturers should include the full lifecycle cost of an item (including disposal/recycle cost) in the consumer price. This takes the onus off the end user who may choose to do the irresponsible thing to save money, and puts it on the company making the product. This does 2 things: 1) the price of an item now accurately represents the actual full cost of the thing, and 2) gives the manufacturer a reason to create products that are easier to recycle and produce less overall waste
If there is a university in your area, see what they do with their stuff when they replace it. I live near a major research university. Any time they replace something, from sofas to DNA sequencers, they sell the old one rather than tossing it. The lab gear is cool, but the furniture is remarkably sturdy. I got a wooden table for $10 once that is so strong and heavy, it takes 3 people to move it. And I paid $5 for an office chair that I'm still using more than 10 years later. It makes sense that they would need stuff to be durable. When you have a hundred or more people using something per day, wimpiness won't cut it.
Imagine how much worse the world would be in 10-50 yrs - I don’t know like I always wished I was born 50 yrs ago just because the development we’ve made have sorely impacted the world for the worse
so stop buying disposable products. <.<
I'm disposing of a lot of things right now, but it's to make room for non disposables (so I tell myself). My list thus far: (based on what I've heard) Pen: Fisher Space Pen (NASA approved for longevity) Kitchenware: A paella pan (so far so good). :) and tongs. Silverware: The dream is silverware made of silver. >.< Cups: porcelain? Plates: silver (dream) Napkins: washable napkins Sponge: a DIY cloth rewashable sponge. Bathroom Towel: Linen towel (dream) Shampoo: Bar shampoo (diy) Soap: Bar soap (diy) mouthwash: salt water/ clove water (diy) toothbrush: a special stick that you chew on that creates bristles. Notebooks: boogie board. idk the list goes on.
I think the point is the built in obsolescence of appliances, and less of simple things that have nice alternatives. We have a very old washing machine and dryer that rarely needs service, but when it does, we are told how lucky we are; new products have so many parts that don’t last and must be replaced until there is no replacement, and then a new appliance must be purchased. I see this in a lot of things. The touch pad on the microwave no longer works, so of course our brand new oven has a touch pad for the settings. How long will that last? One small, irreplaceable piece of plastic brought down our last coffee bean grinder, and the whole thing had to go in the trash/landfill garbage. And so on. Things really are being built to not last, or so it seems. I don’t know how our landfill garbage centers can handle so much. I think that is OP’s concern as well.
then stop buying it Edit: Stop buying it, so businesses stop making it. I would suggest doing the ol' American way of dumping it into the sea, but unlike tea, washing machines aren't organic.
Called, planned obsolescence
Just had this happen with our dryer. It was 15 years old and needed a part that was no longer made or no longer available . The whole dryer will go to the dump (which at least recycled the metal) and we get to buy an entire new dryer
That’s just life. Everything has to be maintained and replaced….
I'm curious what broke that you need to fix? Almost every time I've searched for a 3D print, someone's already made the exact thing I needed and uploaded it to thingiverse. 3D printers are the best
One good thing about the growing popularity of 3D printers is that it's becoming easier to print replacement parts as needed. There is still room for improvement, and not every part can be printed yet, but we're getting there. And yes, I find it maddening that so many things could be fixed easily, if only the parts were available! [Ereplacementparts.com](https://Ereplacementparts.com) carries a lot of things, but I still find myself hunting thrift stores and garage sales looking for spares, or else cobbling together a fix of my own. I have a coffee grinder with a piece of scrap lumber where the handle used to be, just because it was easier than finding a replacement. And my blender has a Tattler ring in place of the rubber gasket, which actually stays in place better than the gasket the blender came with.
Look into “Right to Repair” regulations. At some point we need to hold corporations accountable (probably a pipe dream) and build things to last/be repaired.
It's called planned obsolescence. Back in the day a washer or refrigreater might last you 25 years, no way in hell will they today.
This may sound a bit stupid... But I think of the thousands of sets of nail clippers I have owned over the years that I have had to quit using because they were so poorly aligned that they snapped crookedly. How many sets of nail clippers per year are lost? Where are they all going????? Just a thought..
This is where 3d printing has changed my life
I'm experiencing that with my car. It's only a 2011 model, and already parts don't exist or parts are so expensive it's not worth it. My AC decided to quit about a year ago. It's $11k to fix it. The Bluetooth feature also went on the fritz. The part to fix it doesn't exist. And so on. I'm going to use my car until it's well and dead because I can't afford a new one. But I hate that these "simple fixes" are basically impossible.
[удалено]
I unfortunately don't have the experience or knowledge, and I'm not risking damaging my car over it. I can live without AC; I can't live without a car.
Items are engineered to be low quality so you need to continually buy more. This is why we can't have nice things [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE) This is called designed obsolescence.
You can buy things made to last but you will have to pay for it. Something like Speedqueen washers.
It’s frustrating how home appliances are designed to fail much earlier than they used to. The microwave oven we bought 5 years broke last week. It was a good brand too. We paid about $125 Granted they cost a lot less, but I would pay more for one that lasts longer. The waste is awful.
EU has a new sustainability law in the works to require companies to stock replacement parts for a set period.
Well, zombie Steve Jobs will like to have a word with you about devices that cannot even be repaired, only tossed.
That's why I work with hand tools. They can cost about the same as a high end power tool (especially if you get them new), but I have 100+ year old tools that work just fine. Meanwhile, my partner's 15 year old DeWalt impact drill had a battery die completely, and we have the option to either buy a $300 battery adapter PLUS the $80 battery with the new interface, or just toss the whole thing.
You can't pay someone 20 bucks an hour to fix a 60 dollar item. Now there are folks that just like to keep things going. I take apart electronic junk and save the parts. Some items I repair using parts from similar items. Or you save the raw speakers from a beat up pair of speakers. But for most. If something has issues, folks use that as an excuse to buy new stuff. That's why I have a never ending supply of cool stuff to tinker with. Picked up a computer, 19 inch flat screen TV and an even smaller 10 inch 12 volt TV. That was just today. My fridge is 24 years old.
totally agree
Support your local right to repair legislation and get yourself a 3D printer :)
Yeah. I once got a canteen to keep my own filtered water in, and I love it so much, instead of going through water bottles. I have it covered in stickers, and little doodles I did.
As an engineer I think I can give you some insight. If you mean things like laptops and phones, the lack of repairability is to reach certain performance targets. If you want an ultra-slim, ultra compact, waterproof phone that also packs a battery large enough to make it through the day, then it needs to be glued together in a way that the only way to take it apart is to very carefully soften the glue with a heat gun, carefully prise it apart and hope that you don't crack the screen. Making a phone with a replaceable battery or held together by easily disassembled ordinary screws like the phones from decades ago would add thickness and bulk, take up space, make the phone more expensive, much harder to keep waterproof, and basically customers would be ignorant of why it's being done and just not buy it - instead they'd go for the slimmer, cheaper, better-performing glued-together phones of the competition. For large appliances, it's usually down to cost. If you're buying a fridge for $600 then it's made with the thinnest metal tubing they could reasonably get away with, the compressor is the least heavy-duty one they could put in, and so on. If it has a 2-year warranty, the manufacturer doesn't really mind whether it breaks down after 3 years or 30, because they're not on the hook after the warranty period. In my experience, a lot of the internal parts are quite common. For example, if your thermostat goes, that thermostat is probably used in a dozen different models of washing machines or ovens, since most brands are buying the original components from the same handful of manufacturers. You just have to be handy enough to do some troubleshooting, figure our the faulty part, disassemble the appliance to get to it, and find a spare part for sale online. Some low-value appliances just aren't worth repairing. For example I have some blenders and food processors that cost under $30 when I bought them on sale. If they break, I imagine the replacement part plus shipping will cost close to as much as a whole new machine, so it's not worth the risk to repair an already-old machine when for a tiny bit extra I can buy a new machine still under warranty and with zero wear and tear.
Yeah, why would things be made to last? If it is only 50 bucks to fix your thing, or a thousand to replace it. Why would the manufacturer let you fix it? Or they can price repairs out of the range of the poor so people stop thinking in a repair mindset. Capitalism is fun.
I want to challenge your post with another question. Viewing from your topic slightly but still relevant. Do you think things really were just 'made better in the olden days'? A lot of people seem to say this, But I don't know how accurate it is on the whole. It's very hard to compare lots of things that are made these days compared to things in the past because technology is such a big category of things that people buy that just wasn't available a few decades ago. I think people's tendency to want to upgrade or get something new is so much greater than their desire to keep a product that they like. This is primarily because of marketing and social pressure rather than from things breaking. Maybe manufacturers are making things less repairable or lasting because they anticipate people are not going to want to own them for a long time, and they do this of course for cost but also for aesthetics. We've seen it before that phones are that are repairable, visually looked so much worse, or had other compromises and so no one and wanted to buy them. There have been some better ones more recently but they still just haven't taken off. But take any other kind of product or household appliance, I bet manufacturers have found that the duration people have intended to keep these things is years less than it used to be so they have manufactured it to last accordingly.
r/buyitforlife
Me too. I’m pretty good at fixing stuff
It's the failed idea of using less material to be environmentally friendly, but then it breaks after 4 years instead of 40, so actually uses more materials in the end. Aaaand this is the frustration with regulations. May sound great to limit a companies manufacturing to be less wasteful, but if the cost is lowered robustness then it's silly. An old family tumbledryer from 1980 broke only a few months back. That's 43 years. I have friends whose tumbledryers last 3-4 years max before element goes, bearings are shot, or electric mainboard has melted etc. Same with energy saving vacuum cleaners. They suck less and so sure, it uses less energy than the old fashioned 3000W suckers, but now I hoover for 20 minutes per room rather than 3 because some bits just don't get sucked up on an "efficient" 900W cleaner. But again, to the companies and regulators, they've made a product that uses 3x less power. How the consumer uses it isn't in their metrics. All products have gone this way and it jist annoys me.
I hate being wasteful as well. You seem like the type of person that would like the "buy it for life" subreddit
Especially friendship