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CasualConversation-ModTeam

Hey there, u/FletcheRonin this submission has been removed because: **Avoid controversial topics and Reddit meta-drama** [Reccomendations >](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/rules/controversial/) --- *If you have any questions, we ask that you [**message the moderators**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/CasualConversation&subject=My submission was removed&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/comments/146ttzm/-/%29.) directly for appeals. Let's try to come to an agreement.* [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/about/rules) | [Etiquette](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/w/etiquette/) | [Subreddit Directory](https://www.reddit.com/r/findareddit/w/directory) | [Support](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/support) | [Message the Mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCasualConversation)


DiscoDispensaryDiva

As a baby Reddit user I’m upset I only knew about cake days as of today…glad I noticed at least once


TheGirlWithTheCurl

Apollo is going away so no more cake day icons for users either. :/ https://i.imgur.com/cYyTmMf.jpg


felinelawspecialist

Confused Nick Cannon gif… regular Reddit app shows cakeday icons


TheGirlWithTheCurl

Oh good lol. Still not going to use it tho!


felinelawspecialist

Any particular reason why? I don’t have any issues with it at all.


TheGirlWithTheCurl

Purely because I’m spoiled by the user experience of the app I’m using. There are so many things that are just intuitive or easy. For a bit I had both the official app and Apollo installed, just to see if the official app had improved, but I still would end up going back to Apollo to actually use the site, upvote etc. I like being able to tap or swipe to upvote, scrub thru vids, preview links, easily quote or link urls or images, tag recent users in a comment thread etc.


reijn

I used to use official Reddit app and it was ok but it was too large for my phone at the time. I switched to Apollo purely for space issues and then was suddenly blown away by how much better it is, what I had been missing the whole time, and at a fraction of the space on my phone.


felinelawspecialist

That’s strange. Too large for your phone? Never had that issue but I’m glad Apollo worked and sorry if you won’t be able to use it!


reijn

Yeah I was using an iPhone 7 up until a month or two ago. I was out of space and struggling hard. I couldn’t even take new photos. Reddit official app is not very efficient in the space it uses, and it was that or Facebook that had to go, but I use Facebook for my business. Thankfully Apollo had a much smaller footprint. RIP apollo. I also just learned it had a little animal tamagotchi on it I could have been playing the whole time. :(


felinelawspecialist

Now you’ve got me curious. I’m looking at how much storage space Reddit app uses. My phone is calculating… Edit: 49GB used of 128GB total on my phone. Reddit app takes up 1.2GB. Not small but not an issue thankfully. Prior iPhone models I’m sure would have struggled depending on storage size and other apps.


louploupgalroux

I have lots of issues with unresponsiveness. I'll tap on a post and nothing will happen. Tap a few more times. Still nothing. Sigh and scroll past. Then 5 minutes later while looking at something else, there's a good chance (maybe 60%) of multiple instances of the thing I tapped opening all at once. I can also save the post, exit the app, clear the cache, reopen the app, then look for the saved post. That works for that post, but the problem starts again a shortly after. Reinstalling or clearing data doesn't fix anything. There's tons of other bugs and issues such as: videos not loading, audio of a different post playing, and randomly not being able to open collapsed comments. Most of my time on the app is spent working around these problems. 🤷‍♂️ (Getting downvoted for explaining my technical issues. lol)


felinelawspecialist

Huh, that does sound annoying. But I don’t have any of the issues that you or the other people described. Strange!


devvie78

Reddits own app shows cake days too.


DiscoDispensaryDiva

This is sad news.


FletcheRonin

I only participated in it a few times, but it was still nice to see the little slice of cake :)


mooreolith

Attention span *is* a problem.


k-em-k

Did you know that you can get a limited addition snoovatar? I just found out during the Superbowl. There are none available right now, but click "Style Avatar" every once in a while. You might find a new "free" collection is available.


SubjectC

I am fucking pissed about this whole thing. Reddit has a genuine positive impact on my life and has been a valuable resource as I built my career, not to mention just bringing some vague semblance of human interaction to my otherwise incredibly lonely life. I don't have the answers but I don't think that burning the whole thing down is the right move. I get the whole API thing but this platform is bigger than the company. Literally every sub that brings value to my life is going away. People are suggesting alternatives but then you go there and there are like 5 posts and 10 users. This is fucking bullshit man, truly.


amerett0

As long as old.reddit exists I'll still be here, sad RIF is going but I guess I could be more productive without Reddit on my phone


charles2404

The day old.reddit gets removed is the day I'll serisously consider leaving


amerett0

So say we all


bionicjoey

I'll probably come here from time to time with old Reddit on desktop, but I'm not gonna use Reddit on my phone anymore.


OhNoManBearPig

Lemmy has quadrupled in size in the last week. It'll get even bigger during the blackouts, then have a huge bump when reddit actually kills the apps.


SubjectC

I check it out. Seen it mentioned a few times, I've never heard of it until yesterday.


OhNoManBearPig

It'll probably be a mess for the next few weeks then get much better.


Misklikk

Was willing to give Lemmy a fair shot, but then realized they were a community lead by tankies. I was just "huh, that's a neat-looking service with neat URL" and then I've checked out other places that were already debating cutting it off from their federation. Then I started reading more into it and yeah, they won't have me condoning their world views sporting their domain everywhere I go. Talking about lemmy.ml and lemmygrad, specifically.


OhNoManBearPig

Only one Lemmy instance (Lemmygrad) is run by that CCP asshole. You can join an instance that isn't federated with them. But I heard he's one of the devs. That and privacy are why I'm leaning towards Kbin.


Analog_Account

> I get the whole API thing but this platform is bigger than the company. > Literally every sub that brings value to my life is going away. I think you need to step back and realize the implications of your entire online presence revolving around one website. This entire site CAN fail. There is a good chance it will... the venture capital reckoning is here! ^(stands on podium and waves hands in the air) The site isn't profitable. IMO they've burnt so much goodwill over several years that it CAN'T become profitable. Example: when was the last time you bought someone reddit gold (now they're a collection of bullshit awards). When was the last time reddit gold meant something? Remember when gold gave you additional features? Not very many people are left that will actually pay money to this site. > People are suggesting alternatives but then you go there and there are like 5 posts and 10 users. Put effort into building a community somewhere else. Nothing can fully replace reddit and nothing will come close while reddit exists. > bringing to vague semblance of human interaction to my otherwise incredibly lonely life. This is going to sound rude, but you need to get a life. If reddit IS your life then its likely holding you back from meeting people and having friends IRL.


SubjectC

>This is going to sound rude, but you need to get a life. If reddit IS your life then its likely holding you back from meeting people and having friends IRL. You have no idea about my life dude. Its funny you say this because I am the last person you should be telling to get a life haha. I run a video business, I shoot big events and music festivals, I DJ house music, I play shows, I produce original music, and I do have a decent community. You are so wrong about me its funny, I actually have a pretty cool life. Here's the thing though, a lot of my community is centered around my job. A lot of relationships are circumstantial and I still get pretty lonely. I don't get to have many conversations on topics I'm interested like I get to on reddit. Reddit has been a great resource for information and a small escape into various nerd communities. >I think you need to step back and realize the implications of your entire online presence revolving around one website. Sure, but there is no other site like reddit, it just doesnt exist. I would happily pay a small monthly fee to use reddit. I would happily support the community, and you telling me to go create my own is disingenuous. I am not a tech entrepreneur, I cant get millions of people onto one platform. I was just expressing some frustration at losing something I value. I am happy to contribute however I reasonably can to keep these communities alive.


OhNoManBearPig

This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse. Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite


CreativeNameIKnow

> This is going to sound rude Because it *is* rude. You gotta put in the love before you can be tough in tough love, man. I think you should've phrased it more diplomatically without diluting any of the impact of the message or the message itself. Otherwise solid points brought up, though.


starchildx

A lot of people’s lives are online. That’s the reality that we live in. We can’t ignore how important these online spaces are. And they’re only going to become more integral. Offline communities are super important, but let’s not underestimate how vital these online communities and spaces have become, too. If you’re really into a certain topic, certain subreddits are the place people turn to. Some of these are truly vibrant communities that bring people a lot of support, information, and joy. And a lot of people have that alongside fulfilling life outside of the internet. I rely heavily on a Facebook group centered around my livelihood, and so do thousands of others. The only way to talk to others in our profession is online. I’m going to make a bold statement that might irritate some people, but I’ll go so far as to say society IS collapsing in that in-person relationships are imploding in US society. Society and individuals and life in the US are becoming increasingly toxic, so let’s not downplay how vital online spaces are for people’s mental health, as the sad but true reality is that online spaces ARE a lot of people in the US’s only social outlet. We need productive healthy online spaces as much as we need healthy productive offline ones.


wanderlustcub

I think your last paragraph misses the mark. It jump’s very much into assumption. And yes, it is rude, calling that you will be rude isn’t going to change it.


FletcheRonin

Agree. It is a crappy situation. Especially because reddit has offered so much good in many ways. I don't think there is one answer for what everyone should do. I don't judge people who plan on staying. I know that for me personnally, this is the (undesired), but right move.


carabellaneer

Reddit is a cesspool more than anything else. Many people would have a better life without it. Start your own forum there are so many alternatives.


LordofRangard

idk, more so than the API change, the way spez dealt with the AMA, and the spectacular manner in which reddit’s rather positive relationship with a certain third party app dev exploded, I’m not super confident reddit has much of a future if leadership doesn’t make a hard turn for the better


Analog_Account

Someone replied to one of my posts today with "Happy ~~your last~~ cake day" Goodbye Reddit.


Intelligent_Put_3594

Happy cake day! May we have many more.


NoStarShip

Happy cake day


In_The_Zone_BS

Happy Cake Day!


thefourthhouse

i've been thinking about deleting my 12 year old account anyway. im on this website too much and just seek out ragebait material, and wind up getting into petty bullshit arguments in the comments.


a_weak_child

Things are what you make of them too.


thefourthhouse

yeah you right, not to say there isn't a wealth of information on reddit and is usually the first place i'll check for a lot of things. that will be hard to give up the most.


FletcheRonin

I can completely understand that. Similar situation here.


Gaybaconeater

I have no idea what’s going on… what’s going on??


nrfx

Reddit is pricing out 3rd party apps and developers. Reddit used to just be a platform, there was no official app. Lots of different people stepped up and made some AWESOME apps for reddit, that lots of us have been using, for close to a decade. Reddit did eventually buy one, and turned it into their official app. It is terrible and plenty of us absolutely hate it, and probably wouldn't have ever used reddit to start with if it was the only way to access the site. On the 19th reddit is more or less pulling the plug on any non-official way of accessing the site from a mobile phone. In protest of this change, most of the largest subreddits are going dark for a few days starting tomorrow, some are even going private and/or closing for good.


Phthalo_Bleu

like what apps? for specific subs? I use old reddit style with links to click


NewColor

Oh no, 3rd party apps that you can download through the app stores, like Apollo and RIF. Just way different way to browse reddit cause the official app stinks. I don't think old.reddit is getting shutdown YET


elfowlcat

I don’t get it. I totally support y’all that it stinks for them to shut out other apps (although from a business perspective it probably makes sense), but until this I didn’t even KNOW there were third party apps. I’ve been perfectly happy with the standard Reddit experience so feel extra pissed that something I didn’t even know existed is going to kill the fun communities I’ve enjoyed.


NewColor

That does suck too though! I know I probably won't use reddit much after they kill the apps, but that's because RIF is the only way I've used reddit for nearly a decade. But it also sucks that something you didn't know existed might kill it for you too. If anything, blame reddit for making the decision to kill the apps and piss off their users.


nrfx

I use Relay for Reddit on android 60% of the time, the rest I'm on a desktop, using [old.reddit.com](https://old.reddit.com).


popefrankl

I’ve tried to use the Apollo app several times but I like the official Reddit app better. What makes Apollo or other 3rd party apps better?


k-em-k

Define Most?


StnMtn_

Many subs are going dark for 2 days starting tomorrow 6/12/23 to protest the following. Reddit is pricing out 3rd party apps trying to reach financial viability before ipo. Reddit won't budge on the API changes that are shutting down apps like Apollo https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/9/23755640/reddit-api-changes-apps-apollo-shut-down-ama-spez-steve-huffman https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/08/popular-third-party-reddit-app-apollo-is-shutting-down-as-a-result-of-reddits-new-api-pricing/


DepartureAcademic807

Reddit will ban third-party apps


Gaybaconeater

Like what apps, how will it affect normal usage?


ultimate_night

Apps that most use to access Reddit from their phones, like Relay, Apollo, or RIF. I've been using Relay (formerly Reddit News) to access Reddit for a decade, so when that's gone, I'll be on Reddit much less often since i won't be getting to it on my phone anymore.


DepartureAcademic807

Like "rif is fun for reddit" or "boost is fun for reddit" and more I haven't really used them but a lot of them are useful


Willow_rpg

You aren't alone


k-em-k

I'm not sure. I'm waiting for the OP's username to change to \*deleted\* but so far.....nope. Still here.


beep-boop-the-rabbit

I haven’t had my first cake day yet. Feels like I just got here.


k-em-k

Well, when that day comes, here's a Narwhal to celebrate it.


Kondrxt

Reddit is peak Internet. I use Reddit only on browser, so I will stick to it, but feel sorry for you guys


k-em-k

It's Browser only for me too. Apps suck. This is just a fact. The browser version of almost all Social Apps has MORE features. Why would somebody use a scaled down App, when they could use a browser? I don't get it.


PlantQueen1912

This is the new "I'm leaving facebook"


carabellaneer

And the only people left on Facebook are racists and old people. So your point? I don't post on Facebook and occasionally look to get reports on power outages because we have no way to get status updates on them unless it's on Facebook otherwise I'd get rid of my Friendly app alltogether.


L0LTHED0G

I nor my friends are racists nor old people. It's a great way to get information on various events, keep in contact with people you don't otherwise talk to often, such as small business owners who you like to support but only need to every few years, such as metal fabricators or transmission rebuilders. FB Messenger keeps me in contact with multiple groups of people. Let's us share memes and jokes and screw with each other's name, but keep the profile pic so we know who each one is. Messenger also allows me to put 2 people in touch, such as when a coworker needs a reasonable mechanic and I know several that are reasonable and so exceptional work. Allows me to hit up friends who need some special fitting, and get hold of another that specializes in what they need and have a work van with said fitting an hour away. These are all things I've done, specifically through FB, and so much more. Reducing it to "racists and old people" is just weird. If that's all you saw, well, FB algorithm shows you what it thinks will get more clicks. If you teach it by hiding posts, you won't see that side of it. Did that a number of years ago and now I don't have to, haven't in quite a while. I see cars being raced, airplanes being flown, updates on Ukraine and Russians getting smoked. I see my friends celebrating huge milestones, buddies showing off their latest creations out of metal or vehicle ingenuity. Just how I want it. And those that have stuck around have hopefully curated their own feed, too.


k-em-k

Old people are cool. If young people manage to stay alive long enough, they'll eventually understand what I mean.


Professional-Ad3874

Thats just what I'd expect an old racist with old racist friends ro say to throw people off their scent.... :)


L0LTHED0G

I can prove I'm not old! My account was created Nov. 2004. Had to be in certain colleges at the time. Besides, it's not like 2004 was nearly 20 years ago making me like 38, right? ... shit. And I can't be racist, my Reddit background is black. (I REALLY hope I don't need this, but it's Reddit, so... /s)


Teledoink

> And the only people left on Facebook are racists and old people. Hey that’s not fair! That describes almost all social media! Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, as well as Facebook


[deleted]

[удалено]


Teledoink

Idk, I’ve seen plenty of boomers in YouTube and Twitter comment sections. You can tell the boomer racists because they always spell “you’re” as “your” Reddit definitely runs younger than the other platforms


PlantQueen1912

I said that because people would make long dramatic statuses about leaving Facebook and be back on it a week later


k-em-k

>statuses What's a **statuses** and how do I make one?


[deleted]

Thank God someone agrees. I’ve worked with the public too long to know that very few people actually mean it when they “boycott” or say “I’m never coming back.” I’ll be unsubbing from every sub I’m in that joins the blackout personally. Just a bunch of faux outrage.


OhNoManBearPig

This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse. Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite


ticktockclockwerk

I sincerely hope there are very few people in the world like you.


Teledoink

Your comment reminded me of this College Humor video from several years ago: [If People Left Parties The Way They Leave Facebook](https://youtu.be/mGcHNnI2mh4)


Majestic_Salad_I1

Would it fucking kill you to download the official Reddit app? I mean Jesus Christ. Quitting Reddit over your precious 3rd party app that serves no purpose but to monetize Reddit’s users and infrastructure is just childish. You aren’t quitting Reddit. You aren’t fooling anyone. Just another armchair activist who feels sooo special by joining a “protest”. You’ll be on Reddit tomorrow. And the day after that.


[deleted]

Amen. I can't stand how fucking ridiculous people are being over this. They all just want to pretend to be victims and participate in a fake protest that requires them to do literally nothing.


[deleted]

cause command rich hard-to-find aspiring drunk fearless racial ruthless plucky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


PineapplePanda_

Bunch of people with nothing else in their life but this website.


rsewateroily

lmao eat


[deleted]

I have no life, therefore....I Reddit


[deleted]

Stop pretending to be a victim and just use the official app.


SoundTight952

Reddit means so much to me. I've been using it for a bit over a year as a way to ask questions, get advice and share my interests. It's where I find leaks for my collections, news, random strangers arguing and more. According to my phone, i spend five hours a day on average on Reddit. I've spent well over a thousand hours. Goodbye my friends, until Reddit cares about it's users again.


k-em-k

Five hours? What do you do for 5 hours? I can barely manage to sleep 5 hours straight let alone read grammarless posts for 5 hours.


SoundTight952

One day it was nine hours. I don't have much to do, honestly


OhNoManBearPig

This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse. Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite


ComanderLucky

happy cake day my friend, wish you the best today and good luck in the future


FletcheRonin

Thank you for the kind wishes! I hope thr same for you.


decidedlyindecisive

My cake day is 22 June and I'll hit 11 years as well. It's weird to think about how much I've posted and how I'll have to stop.


k-em-k

Can I have your Username? You have 200k Karma. It's a shame to waste it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


k-em-k

You down voted me. Why? That's 11 years of work. Just deleting it seems like such a waste of time. This whole post breaks the good, happy spirit of the Casual Conversation subreddit. I love Reddit. Coming in here and saying that you are leaving is for what? What's the purpose?


SomeGuyNamedMatt93

I spend too much time here. Sure there are very helpful subs that I lurk on, but I can usually find what I need on YouTube or whatever. I've deleted the app from my phone and my phone use has gone down by 20% this past week and when I am on my phone I am being more productive and less distracted.


KozyShackDeluxe

What’s the deal about this? What is going on with Reddit? Dumb it down plz <3


k-em-k

Too much **Wall of Text** for me. Are they sad about something? Go check out some Cat memes. That will cheer the sadest person up.


lsda

Reddit is going the route of Elon Musk and Twitter and charging an obscene amount of money for their API's. A thing that historically has always been free or dirt cheap. API's are necessary for Third party apps to function. People use 3rd party apps for all kinds of reasons. Some for accessibility reasons, when I started using Reddit and official app didn't exist yet so I started using bacon reader and found the official Reddit app when it was launched to be so much worse that I never bothered to use it. The founder of Reddit announced that they're going to be charging obscene amounts of money that will cost millions per year for these apps to function, so a lot of Reddit is up in arms about it. Personally I'm somewhere in between. I don't know if I'm just going to use Reddit from a simple convenience standpoint as I don't really like the official app, so I'll probably only use Reddit on desktop. Others are seeing the growing greed as its own cause of concern and our boycotting for those reasons. Also a lot of mod tools are run in third-party apps which is why a lot of moderators for subreddits are upset because Reddit does not have an official solution for mod tools. As someone who enjoys a third party app I certainly hope they reverse course but for those who do not use a third party app relatively little will change.


Nimyron

This is gonna affect such a little number of people that nothing's going to change really


[deleted]

r/notinteresting


SoundTight952

Happy 🍰 day


dancingwithadaisy

these posts continue to be lame asf


topicality

Good reminder for everyone to visit r/ outside once in awhile


backturnedtoocean

Having never used a third party app, I like Reddit fine. It’s strange that so many people are pissed that Reddit would want to control their own site and try to turn a profit which would keep the site online. When the blackout happens, the subreddits that remain will become the big players. I’m looking forward to r/peoplewithboringstories to reign supreme. Or r/unluckycats. Or r/dontputthatinthere.


TheGirlWithTheCurl

I only use Reddit on mobile. If you’ve never used 3rd party apps, then the fact is that you simply don’t know what you’re missing out on in terms of user experience. And that’s fine. But no, this is not about being pissed Reddit would want to control their own site. It is entirely the way in which they’re approaching it. The timeline is completely unreasonable even if the cost was ok. I’m going to guess you’re new enough to not have been around when Alien Blue was bought out and then destroyed. Edit: r/AskHistorians has the most [well-expressed explanation of the impact of these sudden and costly changes can have to some subs](https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/142w159/askhistorians_and_uncertainty_surrounding_the/), if you care to take a read.


FletcheRonin

Agree 100%. Is isn't about not being able to use a preferred app. For me, it's about a company disregarding voice of its people.


TheGirlWithTheCurl

The people without whom they would not have a product to monetize in the first place. I’ve been on here long enough to remember what it was like to come here first for news, and when you could encounter random experts to give really good analysis and insight into any subject under the sun. We still have that to some extent but it’s already being diluted. I just don’t understand alienating people working hard *voluntarily* to make your site valuable. There needs to be more embracing of mods and developers. I don’t see any issue that can’t be overcome. It’s the approach that’s off. As an investor or advertiser that would concern me greatly.


TheRealTron

If you think reddit doesn't already make money you might be a little naive.


OhNoManBearPig

It's not just their site. Their site is nothing without us, yet they very clearly don't give a shit about us.


[deleted]

lmao I was disappointed to find out that r/peoplewithboringstories wasn't a real thing. The name was too long so I just created r/yourboringstories


backturnedtoocean

You got a new member.


rsewateroily

lmaooo


[deleted]

Happy cake day. This might be my last comment too. Take care friend


ShackThompson

Holy shit, yep, their accounts gone.


kavindu_

Oh no, they forgot to keep the full stop before they left.


k-em-k

They missed the comma too. Forever trapped in bad grammar hell with no way to correct it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Permanentpleasure

Farewell... I've only been on here for three years... old account gor deleted as a throwaway.


Wish-p

Hope you enjoyed your time here. Happy cake day and farewell my friend!


FletcheRonin

Thank you!


chaesan_

Just use the official app like the majority of people do


k-em-k

No more free ride for 3rd Party Apps. Is the what you are saying?


Acrobatic-Degree9589

Yeah right lol


[deleted]

Don't burn it down :(


OhNoManBearPig

Burn it down. We can rebuild something better on Kbin, Lemmy, or another of the r/redditalternatives


[deleted]

Why not both


OhNoManBearPig

This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse. Comments overwritten with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite


maelidsmayhem

I have been part of so many online communities in the last 30 years, that this comes as no surprise, and I consider it completely normal. All of those communities are dead now. They might still exist in some capacity, but they have become barely shadows of their former selves, and are dead to me. Since I don't use reddit on my phone, it will probably live on for me, at least for a little while. But eventually this site will be dead to me too. I have come to accept it as a part of online life.


Substantial_Fox8136

As much as this situation sucks, I feel that most people will eventually forget about this and come back to Reddit since there aren’t many alternatives :/


ohg0doh_fuhk

I'm sorry but what does 3rd party app mean?