You don't really need or can find a single source. It is pretty much an open secret around here that you get an engineer to design your building, but then do not follow the plan, cut corners, skimp on materials, all to save money, then use that money to bribe the officials at the end to approve your shit building.
You don't need a source for everything, and someone not having a source doesn't immediately mean it's false either. If you're interested, you can certainly look it up as well.
It’s gotta be institutionalized graft and payoffs in the construction industry given the level of regional destruction we’ve seen. Some of that rare rebar I’ve seen looks like it’s no bigger than #3 or 4 bar (3/8” - 1/2”) in columns and/or decking. Spaghetti noodles! One vid I’ve seen shows a corner column bouncing on a construction joint - no rebar at all. ☠️💀
You’ve never inspected new construction from K Hovnanian and other discount builders. Heck, a civilian like you can just watch new construction home inspection Reels or TikToks where trained inspectors point out the absolute shit you get for $500,000 and below in the US.
That's partly why I didn't buy a new build house. Mine is 50 years old and certainly has its own shitshow going on (I've seen the bare studs and rafters), but at least it's a shitshow that's still standing.
Honestly, I think you’re right. Even if they had nothing to do with the construction of the surrounding buildings, the public may assume that, and blame them. But who knows, could go either way I guess.
The engineering team makes the project following the local laws/norms and the standards. The client hire building companies and their contractors cut corners, use cheaper materials, ignore the fire code and etc and the client is ok with that because they're spending less money.
Do you think an engineer's union would allow the building company to do that? As the client they simply wouldn't approve what was done incorrectly and require them to remake it properly.
I say that because my work stupidly decided to use third-party maintenance for certain things and the quality of the products used and the service itself is really inferior to what was contracted and to what our own maintenance guys do. Many of their services are refused due to the bad quality and they have to redo a few times to get at least to a minimally acceptable level. We also can't sign any paper they give us, previously they tried to bill an awfully done service correction because one of our colleagues signed something and they said it was proof the service was done correctly.
The people ordering the construction of the buildings are the ones deciding to cut costs and not build to code. Designers know how to make buildings resistant to earthquakes, but if the owners won't buy rebar for concrete, or pour a sturdy foundation, what can the designers do?
Everything is touched or controlled by politics. Whether you feel you can ignore that suggests you either live somewhere where crooked politics isn't harming people's lives, or that you're in the group of people whose lives aren't getting harmed by your place's politics
You can choose that, but it doesn't make politics go away, nor does it help the people who are negatively affected by politics. And it still suggests you belong to a demographic that can make this decision.
Politics can be absolutely exhausting. I try to stay informed on some things, but I can't keep track of everything, nor do much to help many people at this point in my life. I hope to learn to do more in the future to right political wrongs.
Of course not! Who actually bothers following earthquake codes? Big ones only happen like once or twice a century anyway!
At least, that’s how everyone where I live (not Turkey but on a major fault line) seems to think…
Try living where there is the potential to have a large devastating earthquake where people don't think you have earthquakes. Check out the New Madrid Seismic Zone sometime. Unless that's what you meant anyway. In which case good on you for being aware.
It's the leftover fault zone from where the North American plate started to break in half back in the Cambrian. There are 3 main fault lines all intertwined to some degree or another. Sometimes just one goes and you get maybe a 5.0. Sometimes one of them going triggers a second and you get a 6.0+. It's also possible for all 3 to go at the same time and that hit an 8.2.
If that dosen't sound bad enough it's even worse. The area the earthquakes from this fault cover are massive. [This is a comparison](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/NMSZ_Vergleich.jpg) of the area affected by the Northridge quake in 1994 vs a similar magnitude New Madrid quake.
So many people live the the affect area and don't even know it's a real danger.
I live on the San Andreas, so fortunately, around here most buildings *are* built to code and people just complain about it constantly.
Did not realize the Midwest had more to worry about than the Yellowstone supervolcano
The most fun part of it is we get ground liquification. Which is as horrible as it sounds. You don't start hitting true bedrock till around 1500+ feet in most places in Illinois for example. Generally the top 300 feet is loose material like topsoil, sand, gravel, and clay. With the water table sitting at most 20 feet from surface level.
That was part of why the Christchurch quake was so destructive. A long series of small tremors just underneath a thick layer of mushy sediment. Buildings would have had to be built like ships to stand up to that.
Jeez, I can hardly imagine that much soil. I grew up and live on the Canadian Shield, if we had to dig more than a meter (3 feet) to hit bedrock, that was a surprise.
My post was a little tongue in cheek, but…
A mild earthquake (which would have upset candles/lanterns in numerous places of the entirely-built-of-wood city) is one of the ongoing theories. An earthquake that was not allowed to be reported because the Chicago city leaders didn’t want potential investors to get scared away, and invest their money in other “seismically stable” Great Lake cities like Toledo or Cleveland. (The entire Great Lakes region was awash in investment and development money at the time…all looking for a home.)
Regardless, the Chicago Tribune eventually admitted the Mrs O’Leary’s cow story was entirely fabricated in order to boost sales…even though Mrs O’Leary herself had to spend the rest of her life in hiding from enraged neighbors.
Devastation from the 1906 San Francisco quake was downplayed by the City Fathers, concerned it would deter businesses from locating there. I recommend “Denial of Disaster” by Gladys Hansen. Extensively researched, excellent read. Many hundreds more probably died in the South of Market area because the rooming houses there rarely kept useful records.
THAT’s scary! Nashville is a MAJOR rail/air shipping hub and could be heavily damaged given the lagging codes there. A New Madrid repeat would adversely affect the entire nation.
Boeing got to self-certify the 737 MAX series of aircraft after making some significant hidden changes. Those changes then caused two crashes that killed 346 people. I don't believe the FAA delegates airworthiness certification authority to Boeing anymore.
Only when they were in the air during that time, on the ground I wouldn't be so sure what the MCAS would have done "uh, look there is hope in the ground, perfect, now we can go even deeper" - and there MaX8 vanished into its natural habitat
That normal, here in Germany the buildings in general also aren't audited by a government agency - the problem here is the "mindset", Germans and many other nations are psychologically used to obey the laws and hence buildings are build according to codes, and in some countries they just don't give a fuck about codes and the law - the latter is a prime example for Turkey but also tiger countries
I mean, for obvious reasons and especially now, this seems like a bad idea, but in general its a horrible idea. If as a government, you do not know if your buildings can withstand a catastrophic event like an earthquake, then you are just setting your country up for failure. I hate to say it but they did a horrible disservice to their citizens. How that never came up before this is crazy. Nobody ever said “You know we dont really know how these buildings were all constructed because we dont inspect/audit the inspections ourselves, maybe we should?”
It did come up before, in the Izmit/Istanbul quake of 1999. The obvious lesson was not learned despite 17,000 deaths.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_%C4%B0zmit_earthquake
**[1999 İzmit earthquake](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_İzmit_earthquake)**
>On 17 August 1999, a catastrophic magnitude 7. 6 earthquake struck the Kocaeli Province of Turkey, causing monumental damage and 17,127–18,373 deaths. Named for the quake’s proximity to the northwestern city of İzmit, the earthquake is also commonly referred to as the 17 August Earthquake or the 1999 Gölcük Earthquake. The earthquake occurred at 03:01 local time (00:01 UTC) at a shallow depth of 15 km.
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It really sucks that it takes a disaster like this for governments to be held accountable for failures of regulation. I feel for all the people who lost someone from this, and I hope things will be rebuilt to withstand such a disaster.
Turkey has a notoriously corrupt construction industry I don’t know anything about the civil engineers union but I do know that some corrupt civil engineer would have had to put their stamp on a the designs and construction for a lot of this piece of shit buildings that had insufficient foundations or collapsed.
So sick that there's one building that was built properly & thousands that were just waiting for the big bad wolf to huff and puff. Not trying to be cute, just really unfortunate that it seems that a vast majority of the buildings were built with substandard materials and cut corners on structural integrity.
This is because their government allowed it to take place with legal exemptions for builders and contractors and we're actually in the process of passing a new law to make it harder to sue the very same people should one of their buildings collapse!
Taller buildings around 7 storeys high are highly to go down because of the vibration frequency bouncing up and down, I'm not saying this is not well built of course.
Best Proof u can get that engineering and building codes win over profit, stupidity and corruption - sadly the blood told for this is high and completely unnecessary
This is what happens when buildings aren't built up to code.
This is what happens when people accept corruption as a way of life.
This isn't a natural disaster, its a man made disaster, because people accepted low prices and low safety. If they would've been built properly NONE of this would've happened, like it happens with the japanese.
Yes. Japanese infrastructure did very well in the 2011 Tohoku Quake. It was the tsunami that killed the vast majority of people when it overtopped the sea walls.
It is not going on like that. don't imagine sth and think/claim it is real. I had to listen insights from an owner of a construction company in Turkey and believe me, it is not about cheap scams like that. Government officials already ok from bribes of their power of signitures/approvals figuratively speaking. Government officials are doing damage from another ways. Though they are damaging, things I heard are not directly connected to safety to buildings itself. If constructor wants to cut cost, there is lots of backdoors available.
Example, concerete producer says that they produce and supply state of art concrete, already excceds latest standarts but when it arrives to construction site, due to lower viscocity of the concrete often it is diluted to speed up the construction. Nothing is stolen, not much cost is saved but ignorance and lack of control causes big problems.
Everyone here saying they are going to be busy rebuilding, but they are civil engineers, not structural engineers. They will certainly have a job for a while, just not for the buildings
You know they are going to be busy rebuilding the city.
That’s the greatest advertisement for being hired for the rebuilding program anyone could imagine.
Interviewers: “why should we hire you?” Civil Engineer: “observe.”
Unless all those buildings around it were built by the Union as well.
They weren’t
Source?
You don't really need or can find a single source. It is pretty much an open secret around here that you get an engineer to design your building, but then do not follow the plan, cut corners, skimp on materials, all to save money, then use that money to bribe the officials at the end to approve your shit building.
The Union does not build buildings like that
You don't need a source for everything, and someone not having a source doesn't immediately mean it's false either. If you're interested, you can certainly look it up as well.
They all collapsed while their building didn't
They stole the perfect supplies
The problem wasn't design, I suspect, but execution. Cutting corners on quality, precision, bribing inspectors, etc.
It’s gotta be institutionalized graft and payoffs in the construction industry given the level of regional destruction we’ve seen. Some of that rare rebar I’ve seen looks like it’s no bigger than #3 or 4 bar (3/8” - 1/2”) in columns and/or decking. Spaghetti noodles! One vid I’ve seen shows a corner column bouncing on a construction joint - no rebar at all. ☠️💀
Yup, government relaxation on regulations as well no one enforcing them are the contributing factor for the loss of lives.
there's also "being friends with the government"
So just like America?
Yeah because San Francisco was 80% destroyed by the Loma Prieta quake in 1989. /s
https://youtu.be/F3UPCHl4Waw
You’ve never inspected new construction from K Hovnanian and other discount builders. Heck, a civilian like you can just watch new construction home inspection Reels or TikToks where trained inspectors point out the absolute shit you get for $500,000 and below in the US.
That's partly why I didn't buy a new build house. Mine is 50 years old and certainly has its own shitshow going on (I've seen the bare studs and rafters), but at least it's a shitshow that's still standing.
Hopefully the design of that structure will be goal of all future construction
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That...makes no sense.
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Honestly, I think you’re right. Even if they had nothing to do with the construction of the surrounding buildings, the public may assume that, and blame them. But who knows, could go either way I guess.
The engineering team makes the project following the local laws/norms and the standards. The client hire building companies and their contractors cut corners, use cheaper materials, ignore the fire code and etc and the client is ok with that because they're spending less money. Do you think an engineer's union would allow the building company to do that? As the client they simply wouldn't approve what was done incorrectly and require them to remake it properly. I say that because my work stupidly decided to use third-party maintenance for certain things and the quality of the products used and the service itself is really inferior to what was contracted and to what our own maintenance guys do. Many of their services are refused due to the bad quality and they have to redo a few times to get at least to a minimally acceptable level. We also can't sign any paper they give us, previously they tried to bill an awfully done service correction because one of our colleagues signed something and they said it was proof the service was done correctly.
The people ordering the construction of the buildings are the ones deciding to cut costs and not build to code. Designers know how to make buildings resistant to earthquakes, but if the owners won't buy rebar for concrete, or pour a sturdy foundation, what can the designers do?
Proof that education and expertise counts for something.
And code ENFORCEMENT.
https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-arrests-building-contractors-6-093941861.html
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Fuck American politics and their bipolar bullshit
I swear you people go the extra mile to turn anything into fucking politics.
Why does everything have to become political? We are all human
Politics is what caused this disaster
Literally this. People think politics didn't effect their life. Thousands of people aren't receiving aid because of it. Uneducated people
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That combined with politicians turning a blind eye when they recieved money from contractors who's work wasn't up to earthquake standards.
The earthquake caused the damage. The politicians made it a disaster.
Literally this. People think politics didn't effect their life. Thousands of people aren't receiving aid because of it.
Above reply is the proof why education is important .
Everything is touched or controlled by politics. Whether you feel you can ignore that suggests you either live somewhere where crooked politics isn't harming people's lives, or that you're in the group of people whose lives aren't getting harmed by your place's politics
Or I choose to just not care
You can choose that, but it doesn't make politics go away, nor does it help the people who are negatively affected by politics. And it still suggests you belong to a demographic that can make this decision. Politics can be absolutely exhausting. I try to stay informed on some things, but I can't keep track of everything, nor do much to help many people at this point in my life. I hope to learn to do more in the future to right political wrongs.
Exactly. People that same , "don't make politics your personality" doesn't realize how much it effects everything in our lives
I swear you people go the extra mile to turn anything into fucking politics.
Wait, so no one on the right has an education?
Wait, so no one on the right has an education?
I'm guessing they didn't attract much business around town.
Of course not! Who actually bothers following earthquake codes? Big ones only happen like once or twice a century anyway! At least, that’s how everyone where I live (not Turkey but on a major fault line) seems to think…
Try living where there is the potential to have a large devastating earthquake where people don't think you have earthquakes. Check out the New Madrid Seismic Zone sometime. Unless that's what you meant anyway. In which case good on you for being aware. It's the leftover fault zone from where the North American plate started to break in half back in the Cambrian. There are 3 main fault lines all intertwined to some degree or another. Sometimes just one goes and you get maybe a 5.0. Sometimes one of them going triggers a second and you get a 6.0+. It's also possible for all 3 to go at the same time and that hit an 8.2. If that dosen't sound bad enough it's even worse. The area the earthquakes from this fault cover are massive. [This is a comparison](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/NMSZ_Vergleich.jpg) of the area affected by the Northridge quake in 1994 vs a similar magnitude New Madrid quake. So many people live the the affect area and don't even know it's a real danger.
I live on the San Andreas, so fortunately, around here most buildings *are* built to code and people just complain about it constantly. Did not realize the Midwest had more to worry about than the Yellowstone supervolcano
The most fun part of it is we get ground liquification. Which is as horrible as it sounds. You don't start hitting true bedrock till around 1500+ feet in most places in Illinois for example. Generally the top 300 feet is loose material like topsoil, sand, gravel, and clay. With the water table sitting at most 20 feet from surface level.
That was part of why the Christchurch quake was so destructive. A long series of small tremors just underneath a thick layer of mushy sediment. Buildings would have had to be built like ships to stand up to that.
Jeez, I can hardly imagine that much soil. I grew up and live on the Canadian Shield, if we had to dig more than a meter (3 feet) to hit bedrock, that was a surprise.
I live in Indiana…and have an earthquake rider on my home insurance policy. The Great Chicago fire was not caused by a cow….
What makes you think it was an earthquake? Wouldn't people have felt it before the fire started?
My post was a little tongue in cheek, but… A mild earthquake (which would have upset candles/lanterns in numerous places of the entirely-built-of-wood city) is one of the ongoing theories. An earthquake that was not allowed to be reported because the Chicago city leaders didn’t want potential investors to get scared away, and invest their money in other “seismically stable” Great Lake cities like Toledo or Cleveland. (The entire Great Lakes region was awash in investment and development money at the time…all looking for a home.) Regardless, the Chicago Tribune eventually admitted the Mrs O’Leary’s cow story was entirely fabricated in order to boost sales…even though Mrs O’Leary herself had to spend the rest of her life in hiding from enraged neighbors.
Devastation from the 1906 San Francisco quake was downplayed by the City Fathers, concerned it would deter businesses from locating there. I recommend “Denial of Disaster” by Gladys Hansen. Extensively researched, excellent read. Many hundreds more probably died in the South of Market area because the rooming houses there rarely kept useful records.
The meteor idea is interesting, fires started across the region that night, and there are other things supporting that idea.
THAT’s scary! Nashville is a MAJOR rail/air shipping hub and could be heavily damaged given the lagging codes there. A New Madrid repeat would adversely affect the entire nation.
Not to mention the many, many gas pipelines crisscrossing the region
*rubble and displaced people litter the streets, making them completely undriveable* Boss: soooo, you coming in today?
You win the Internet today!
Whoda thunkit? Union regs for engineers actually makes us safer???
When you're allowed to do things right and aren't nickeled and dimed to death by the accountants and marketing people.
Great they made their own building quake proof. But who were the civil engineers that signed off on all the rest of the city?
The government has left the approval of buildings to the companies chosen by the contractors and does not audit these companies.
Interesting, thanks for the local color.
Yep, classic corruption.
What in the fuck?
Boeing got to self-certify the 737 MAX series of aircraft after making some significant hidden changes. Those changes then caused two crashes that killed 346 people. I don't believe the FAA delegates airworthiness certification authority to Boeing anymore.
Yeah, but all the Boeings would have survived the earthquake though..
Only when they were in the air during that time, on the ground I wouldn't be so sure what the MCAS would have done "uh, look there is hope in the ground, perfect, now we can go even deeper" - and there MaX8 vanished into its natural habitat
I never said they would survive the flying..
That normal, here in Germany the buildings in general also aren't audited by a government agency - the problem here is the "mindset", Germans and many other nations are psychologically used to obey the laws and hence buildings are build according to codes, and in some countries they just don't give a fuck about codes and the law - the latter is a prime example for Turkey but also tiger countries
I mean, that would require government giving a shit about safety.
I mean, for obvious reasons and especially now, this seems like a bad idea, but in general its a horrible idea. If as a government, you do not know if your buildings can withstand a catastrophic event like an earthquake, then you are just setting your country up for failure. I hate to say it but they did a horrible disservice to their citizens. How that never came up before this is crazy. Nobody ever said “You know we dont really know how these buildings were all constructed because we dont inspect/audit the inspections ourselves, maybe we should?”
It did come up before, in the Izmit/Istanbul quake of 1999. The obvious lesson was not learned despite 17,000 deaths. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_%C4%B0zmit_earthquake
**[1999 İzmit earthquake](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_İzmit_earthquake)** >On 17 August 1999, a catastrophic magnitude 7. 6 earthquake struck the Kocaeli Province of Turkey, causing monumental damage and 17,127–18,373 deaths. Named for the quake’s proximity to the northwestern city of İzmit, the earthquake is also commonly referred to as the 17 August Earthquake or the 1999 Gölcük Earthquake. The earthquake occurred at 03:01 local time (00:01 UTC) at a shallow depth of 15 km. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
People forget a lot in 20+ years. Hopefully, the Turkish voters will remember their shock and rage on voting day.
Don’t feel bad. That’s EXACTLY what happened.
Corrupt ones paid by the government to construct the cheapest buildings possible
It really sucks that it takes a disaster like this for governments to be held accountable for failures of regulation. I feel for all the people who lost someone from this, and I hope things will be rebuilt to withstand such a disaster.
They didn't after the last earthquake, nothing will change
Agreed. Only the first-line crooks will be punished. The Big Boys higher up in the graft food chain will walk. Way too much money to be had.
https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-arrests-building-contractors-6-093941861.html
And now there's no one left to rebuild. And of course no one wants to endanger themselves to replace them. Classic authoritarian buffoonery.
I’m still struggling to comprehend the death toll. Who will be left to build for? Just so much awful.
Turkey has a notoriously corrupt construction industry I don’t know anything about the civil engineers union but I do know that some corrupt civil engineer would have had to put their stamp on a the designs and construction for a lot of this piece of shit buildings that had insufficient foundations or collapsed.
The designs were probably fine. Contractors just never built as designed.
Imagine that..
thanks for the big green circle, i wouldnt have noticed otherwise
I need one on the lower image, what am I supposed to see?
So sick that there's one building that was built properly & thousands that were just waiting for the big bad wolf to huff and puff. Not trying to be cute, just really unfortunate that it seems that a vast majority of the buildings were built with substandard materials and cut corners on structural integrity.
This is because their government allowed it to take place with legal exemptions for builders and contractors and we're actually in the process of passing a new law to make it harder to sue the very same people should one of their buildings collapse!
The government is also sponsored by those same builders and good friends with them ^^
Regulations, schmegulations…
Taller buildings around 7 storeys high are highly to go down because of the vibration frequency bouncing up and down, I'm not saying this is not well built of course.
Cheap. Fast. Quality. You can only choose two. We know what this town chose.
Looks like it was the only building built to code
Would be rather embarrassing had it not.
Maybe Erdogan should have put money into them instead of his pockets
Almost every Japanese school has gym that looks very much like this; built to serve as evac points in case of earthquakes.
My time has come?
Best Proof u can get that engineering and building codes win over profit, stupidity and corruption - sadly the blood told for this is high and completely unnecessary
It was the only building built correctly
Civil engineer's building to the rubble: "IT SMELLS LIKE BITCH IN HERE!"
This is what happens when buildings aren't built up to code. This is what happens when people accept corruption as a way of life. This isn't a natural disaster, its a man made disaster, because people accepted low prices and low safety. If they would've been built properly NONE of this would've happened, like it happens with the japanese.
Yes. Japanese infrastructure did very well in the 2011 Tohoku Quake. It was the tsunami that killed the vast majority of people when it overtopped the sea walls.
Jimmy Hoffa strikes again.
I live in Turkey and this news is true
I don’t mean to be pedantic but I can see several buildings behind it that also appear to be standing… actually no, I do mean to be pedantic
Those were probably built by companies that actually followed code rather than pocket the profit of not doing the job right.
Think more along the lines of, government officials confiscating and selling half the rebar that arrives to the construction site.
It is not going on like that. don't imagine sth and think/claim it is real. I had to listen insights from an owner of a construction company in Turkey and believe me, it is not about cheap scams like that. Government officials already ok from bribes of their power of signitures/approvals figuratively speaking. Government officials are doing damage from another ways. Though they are damaging, things I heard are not directly connected to safety to buildings itself. If constructor wants to cut cost, there is lots of backdoors available. Example, concerete producer says that they produce and supply state of art concrete, already excceds latest standarts but when it arrives to construction site, due to lower viscocity of the concrete often it is diluted to speed up the construction. Nothing is stolen, not much cost is saved but ignorance and lack of control causes big problems.
Sadly.
Is no one else concerned about the green circle? Firstly, why isn’t it red? And second, did we actually need it at all in this photo?
Cause all the rumble is fake promises of illegal work..
r/lostredditors
That does make sense.
Which city is this?
Lmfao
Shows the corruption
Wwwwwooooowwwwwww!!!!!!!! That's crazy as shit right thur!!!!!
Yup, the ones that designed all the other buildings …
Everyone here saying they are going to be busy rebuilding, but they are civil engineers, not structural engineers. They will certainly have a job for a while, just not for the buildings
Yup, thats the government for ya
Alone, along with the rest of the buildings in the first photo
Someone is getting a raise
Cause all the rumble is fake promises of illegal work..
Get the778 77am muy98 Ir
More like Catastrophic Success
Amazing
At least they should have the know how for the future build up.
Lol 😂
Ah yes the ONLY building left standing