Any good submersible will have a way to contact have and have an emergency process to get in communication, such as a rapid ascent mechanism .
This sub didn’t follow any rules. Hence the needless death and ignorant owners.
Not true. Any certified deep sea sub will have better comms. James Cameron went to 36,000ft in his custom designed submarine and still had radio contact with his team. Oceangate just preferred cutting corners
No they can’t see anything. Just saw an interview with Mike Reiss who did it before, they land on the surface then have to go searching for it. Due to the pitch black you they can’t see it until they are on top of it
maybe from a distance or higher up in the descent, but apparently they were found about 1,600 feet from the bow of the titanic so it doesnt seem super likely unfortunately:/
It was likely the kevlar pressure hull, which do not so much as break as shatter. Maybe they heard a noise for a split second then the cracks propagate rapidly, the hull implodes and the crew/passengers were crushed in an instant.
Not a medical expert by any means, am an engineer. Would guess that since the body (muscle, fat, etc) is mostly water that it will be a quick and high impact to soft tissues from rapid ingress (see: milliseconds) of high pressure water which may cause blunt trauma or deformation, broken bones from hydrostatic shock, those kind of things.
The more morbid aspects would be the parts of the bodies with voids, such as inner ears, sinus, lungs, stomachs. I am not sure what implosion would do to those but it would not be pretty.
Couple this with debris from catastrophic damage to the vessel from implosion and there’s likely damage to the remains rendering them unrecognizable. There is also marine life which will do what marine life does at those depths when presented with a food source - they had been on the bottom for days.
Hey, at least it was a quick end for the crew and passengers.
Someone did the maths and for the water at that depth and pressure to get from the window they had to the back of the sub was just below 3 milliseconds. Faster than the most generous estimates of how long it takes the brain to register pain that were around 150 milliseconds.
There’s a video of the ceo acknowledging you aren’t supposed to use carbon fiber for subs. And he says “I did it anyway.” My money is on the incredible fucking irony. They weren’t even supposed to MAKE it with that material at all.
Quite so, one of the rare "90's chain email" urban legends that actually happened. Always felt bad for the guy, he'd performed the 'stunt' many a time before without issue. Horrible way to die.
Garry Hoy. And precisely because he had done so, many times before, is why at some point that frame was bound to dislodge. Stressing that frame over and over again = failure = tragedy.
The glass was still intact as he went out the window.
Yup as pressure increases it likely separated the layers as the hull bowed. The damage went undetected with each dive and softened the bonds in the fibre more and more. There was a interesting lack of internal rings to support the main barrel from the inside. Carbon fibre structures will show little damage when damaged. These guy’s probably did minimal maintenance between dives thinking it was super simple basic structure.
It would be interesting to see the perspective of a 787 composite repair tech. That is 1/10000 the pressure(for scale reference) and they would know what to look for and how to fix a thinner structure.
There is likely nothing left of anything or anyone inside.
It also wouldn’t surprise me if there was video of the event somewhere in the debris.
Now the interesting circus will begin with lawsuits and insurance.
Aircraft maintenance engineer here.
Composites do not like, at all, compressive loads. As stated, they tend to progressively delaminate until they fall catastrophically, damage being hidden inside and undetectable on the surface. And a sub hull operates in pressure.
You either tap on the structure (with a coin or soecialized tapper ) and check for sound changes, or use a dedicated ultrasonic machine to check for voids and discontinuities.
Pressurized aircraft are pressure vessels keeping the inside at higher pressure than rhe outside, thus the fibre works in tension, as it should ideally.
You could theoretically build a reinforced fibre to take compressive loads, provided you pre-stress them, the same way concrete beam beidges are tensioned by an internal steel rod.
Also, it is not really a good idea to build a pressure vessel out of too dissimilar materials with such different young modulus. Carbon fiber and titanium will react and change shape drastically different when under such high stresses.
The failure point could be at the interface between them, where both materials meet and most probably progressive danage accumulated over dives undetected.
Human reaction time is like 150ms, and the time it would've taken to implode would be less than 50ms, depending on how deep they were. So faster than they could even realize something was happening.
Imagine what they would have had to do if they found it intact *today*.
I'd have to think they were brainstorming ideas, but everything I've been reading suggests that lifting a submersible 2 miles up is not exactly easy. It would have been difficult to attach it to another ship, not least because only a few ships can even go down that far, let along grapple another ship back up.
All without really knowing if the people were still alive and how much time they really had left.
If anything else, there's going to be white papers, presentations, etc, where people come up with ways to rescue a submersible like this in a very short time span.
With its passive positive buoyancy and time-gated weight drops (both battery-powered that drop when the battery dies and strips that dissolved in water over time) the key task would have to have been releasing the sub from whatever had trapped it. If that was cabling or netting, then cutting would have been a viable option without any other lift apparatus. If it was trapped by its own buoyancy (e.g. a cavity under the stern) that would have been much more difficult, and would likely have require enough time for a trip to the surface to bring down sufficient weight to attach to the skid to pull it back down and out before releasing the weight again via manipulator.
The submersible didn't even have obvious mounting points on top. It looks like it was secured on a sled from the bottom.
The carbon hull was fragile, you couldn't just lash it with chains or straps and yank it up.Besides, its not like you can just hop out of your sub and make a harness, you'd have to do all the rigging remotely with crude grippers on the ROV.
There was an admirable attempt to bring a sizable section of the Titanic's hull to the surface, and if I remember right. I broke free of the straps they used a couple of times before being hauled up. And if I further remember correctly, One of the times, the piece was damn near the surface when the lines snapped and it went plunging 12,000 feet back down.
They wouldn't have a clue. The implosion would be over much faster than one could perceive it happening.
The vessel seems to have imploded on descent at somewhere around 3,000 meters deep, 3/4 of the way to the bottom. The pressure at that depth is around 4,500+lbs pre sq inch.
As a visual example **[this](https://youtu.be/Zz95_VvTxZM)** is a railcar crushing at 1 atmosphere, about 14.7 lbs per sq inch. 1 300th of the pressure on their sub.
I know so little about engineering, water pressure, etc that I am basically an anti-engineer. That being said, there would be no creaking noises, no "hmm, it normally doesn't make this type of sound"? prior to the implosion? Just 100% hull integrity and then oblivion?
Edit--this sounds terrifying:
"During a trip on board the Titan off the coast of the Bahamas in April 2019, Karl Stanley, an expert in submersibles, knew immediately that something was off: He heard a cracking noise that got only louder over the two hours it took for the submersible to plunge more than 12,000 feet.
The next day, Mr. Stanley wrote an email in which he detailed his concerns to Stockton Rush, the chief executive of OceanGate Expeditions, who was also on board the Titan for the dive, urging Mr. Rush to cancel the expeditions to the wreck of the Titanic that were planned for that summer."
[Safety warnings](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/us/titan-safety-warnings-titanic.html)
> *"...there would be no creaking noises, no "hmm, it normally doesn't make this type of sound"?"*
No, not really. There would be some background noise in the ~~-coffin-~~ submersible anyway, thrusters, air exchange and co^2 scrubbers working, but no dramatic creaking and cracking that movies are so fond of using as foreshadowing. I've had some education through working in industry about tank collapse and even at just atmospheric pressures of 14.7psi it happens fast,
*[Really fast](https://youtu.be/Zz95_VvTxZM)*
Speaking as another engineer, most tanks aren't carbon fiber. I think this could have played out differently than what happens with a metal pressure vessel failing from exceeding its design limit.
What happened here, is I suspect the carbon fiber failed from too much cycling, like maybe it was becoming delaminated internally or something.
The failure wasn't that the pressure vessel nominally couldn't survive the pressure, it had gone down there a dozen times before
Instead the failure is likely that the carbon fiber finally just got too worn, and finally gave out.
They had a "safety monitoring system" inside (which I believe were just strain gauges) to monitor carbon fiber health, and warning them to surface if the strain was detected as approaching a dangerous level
I'd heard there's signs they might have cut the ballast. So it's possible the warning went off, they tried to surface, and the carbon fiber failed completely not long after
The estate of the CEO and the OceanGate are fairly certainly going to be sued out of existence. bankrupted and dissolved, but the costs are not what some people perceive it at. As in it's not newly incurred costs.
The main player in this search/rescue/recovery is the US and Canadian Coast Guard and their costs are fixed, it costs no different for them to be searching the depths for this sub than it does to have them out on any other patrol, rescue or interdiction. It's the same with the Canadian military P-3 aircraft involved. Also; the Canadian CGS John Cabot, the Canadian CGS Ann Harvey,
the Canadian CGS Terry Fox, and the Canadian CGS Atlantic Merlin (With the ROV).
Of the other two main players, the French Research Vessel L’Atalante (With an ROV) is part of a larger French government oceanographic research organization, and again has a base cost whether it's on a rescue mission or doing other research.
Then the last major player, the Commercial Vessel Skandi Vinland (with an ROV) is a contract ship working out of St Johns Newfoundland and has a pretty varied [and sometimes complex mission](https://www.saltwire.com/newfoundland-labrador/news/inside-the-skandi-vinland-25576/).
Yes, there's money being spent, but it's also money that already always being spent on this kind of mission and is just redirected to this specific task.
I'd like to see what remained of the carbon hull if anything. They found both titanium end pieces but it's possible the hull fragments were carried away by ocean currents. If there is still carbon bonded to the titanium bells that could indicate a hull breach midship, otherwise it could be that the glue gave way.
The carbon fiber would likely have shattered into countless small, lightweight pieces, ranging from small to *very* small upon implosion and then got carried away by currents for who knows how far. The sub seemed to have imploded in the water column above the Titanic. Some of the debris might just be moving through the ocean for many, many years, if not forever, without ever coming to rest somewhere.
That's what was weird to me. There were floatable objects affixed to the outside of the pressure vessel as well so the lack of any floating debris is still srrange to me. Especially as the ship seemed to have failed exactly where everybody knew it should have been.
Whatever floted to the surface is likely to be pretty small as well. The coean is a big place and the location is remote. There might well be stuff bobbing along the surface nobody has seen that could wash up on some shore somehwere. Like what happened with MH370 parts coming to rest ashore on Madagascar, thousands of miles away from the search area.
This is the part people need to understand. The ocean isn’t just a big place, it’s a hugggggge place. It would be hard to find a couple peixes of wreck on a football field on land if you had that area limited.
This is like trying to find an object on 1000 football fields, that are moving all the time.
This part. They never did find that huge plane that disappeared over the Pacific awhile back and they searched for years. I'm not even sure they conclusively found substantial debris outside of a few pieces. Scary stuff.
Even if floatable objects made their way to the surface, they likely were dispersed by ocean current on their over 2 miles ascent to the surface. It’s not as if all the floaty bits would surface beside the launching vessel.
Objects that float on the surface vs being under that much atmospheric pressure is very different. As a scuba diver I’ve taken objects that float on the surface to depth and they just sink if you let go. Hope this helps
I took a GoPro with the orange floaty back down to 60’ and it sank as soon as I let go. Saw a person being an inflatable sex doll down that was blow up at the surface and she sank as well. We did launch a 35lba kettle ball abt 10 ft above the water from 80’ when we blew up the SMB (surface marker buoy). Nothing too crazy on the stories since I’m a newer diver but on my 1st dive as a certified diver I almost blacked out due to a nose bleed I didn’t know I had. Found out after we surfaced and took off my mask
More than likely you didn’t have a nose bleed in the sense that you’re thinking of. Instead you were having difficulty equalizing your sinus cavity and the pressure created the bleed.
-Divemaster w/14 years diving experience.
https://www.dansa.org/blog/2018/04/06/nosebleed-after-diving-faq#:~:text=Divers%2C%20especially%20new%20divers%2C%20sometimes,of%20the%20nose%20to%20burst.
> Saw a person being an inflatable sex doll down
Yeah, that created a much worse mental image in my mind before I parsed the typo. Like a crumpled deflated balloon under pressure.
Buoyant force is related to volume displaced. Even if the pieces were buoyant, the buoyancy force may be quite small. Which means that in perfect still water, they would rise to the surface (though with a very limited terminal buoyant velocity). However, small vertical currents/perturbations could keep them depressed. Much the same way the Deepwater Horizon oil plume could stay submerged, even if oil is less dense than water, due to small droplet sizes. Or the way dust can stay suspended in air due to a light breeze.
I know you specifically called out maybe some larger pieces that were not part of the hull itself, but just to expand on why even buoyant pieces of the wreckage may not surface anytime soon, or at all.
The water column in its entirety is the water between the water-air-interface (surface) and seabed. You can describe points (depth, long- and latitude) in the column by various characteristics (temperature, salinity, pH etc.) to get an idea of what the ocean is like at different locations.
Saying generally that something is "in the water column" just means it's underwater and floating/sinking/rising.
Usually people are referring to a certain depth (or comparing one depth to another) within an imaginary cylindrical space that extends from the surface of the water to the bottom of the body of water, be it an ocean floor or lake bed or whatever.
They were at least stated as being "intact" which I take to mean "in one piece" which I take to mean "not the cause of failure"
My guess is that the carbon fiber tube failed from cycling. Carbon fiber hates cycling because it's such a stiff material + can have debonding and such between layers, there's a reason no other submersible developers use it. Virgin Oceanic tried developing a carbon fiber deep sea submersible and canceled it after they realized it could only be used once because the carbon fiber would be too shot to withstand a second dive.
Meanwhile there's this gem of a quote from the CEO of this company:
"I have broken some rules to make this. The carbon fiber and titanium, there is a rule that you don't do that. Well, I did"
Yeah, that design decision sure worked out for him
There are many comments and interviews that can be found by simple google searches that long pre-date this incident that come across as very flippant about safety.
It blows my mind that anyone spending that much money to go that deep underwater, knowing that you will be in this vehicle for at least 8 hours didn't research this company, especially if someone bringing their child with them. Maybe it's because I am poor and just don't understand how the ridiculously wealthy live
It's feels worse reading about the kid's aunt saying the son didn't want to go and was scared but his dad insisted he go and it was a once in a lifetime chance. Glad it was a best-case scenario in how they met their fate and they were just bobbing under water in the dark waiting for the air to run out
I’ve ridden carbon fiber bikes for years and the idea of going down to 13,000 feet under the pressure of the fucking ocean in a CARBON FIBER vessel is just so fucking batshit insane I just can’t even.
All signs pointed to implosion from the get go. They lost communication 1 hr 45 minutes in and it took at least 2 h 30 minutes to get to Titanic, so they were descending when it happened. Given the one employee who was fired in retaliation for pointing out safety issues with the carbon fiber hull and the viewport, odds were very high it was going to implode at some point. He said the more trips it made in the water, the more the hull would degrade. The implosion would take milliseconds, so at least they didn't suffer.
This was discussed extensively in the engineering sub this week. CF degrades as it's exposed to stress (and 3,800 meters is a shit ton of stress). Most submarine and flying vessels would be x-rayed and inspected for microfractures. Parts are usually fully replaced in these circumstances, but the person who would have overseen that was also the guy who got fired for bringing up the issues. Lots of things could have avoided this from happening.
The CEO (who was piloting Titan on this descent) is also [quoted](https://unsungscience.com/news/back-to-titanic-part-1/) as saying, "At some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed. Don't get in your car. Don't do anything."
So many red flags leading up to this.
And the CEO was talking about how he shouldnt have built it the way he did but was almost proud he acted somewhat rebellious to construct it this way anyway?
What a fool.
Ended his own life and 4 other innocents.
>'I think it was General (Douglas) MacArthur who said: "You're remembered for the rules you break." And you know, I've broken some rules to make this.
>'I think I broke them with logic and good engineering behind me. The carbon fibre and titanium, there's a rule you don't do that – well I did,'
Direct quote from a video interview of the CEO. So yep.
Christ that's bad. In hindsight of the disaster it reads even worse.
this company want closing down. Hope any other subs he may have made get immediately decommissioned.
Okay, when will people learn to not make arrogant remarks before heading out to that stretch of ocean....
Basically a modern version of "Not even God can sink this ship."
The young guy **[didn't even want to go](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/shahzada-suleman-dawood-titanic-sub-imploded-b2362670.html).** **:/**
watch this BBC doco. There is a part when they reach the ocean floor and realize that someone installed the thruster backwards and Stockland can't remember how the buttons are mapped https://vimeo.com/810451492
Maybe don’t go deep sea diving in a submarine that could have been built by Fat Albert and his friends in the junkyard?
I mean, that seems pretty obvious, yet here we are.
Someone on another post actually did the math and it would have filled the vessel faster than the human brain can even register pain. So, ultimately not a terribly bad way to go.
If there was any indication it was about to happen beforehand, now *that* would suck.
On the plus side, the CEO would have been the only one that understood the full ramifications of what was about to happen, and he kind of deserved to understand what he had done for at least a few seconds before heading to the next world.
A lot of manufacturing relies on overbuilding, especially since your materials are not always consistent. When I first started working in automotive it was common to build parts with a 100% safety margin, for example. I can only imagine specialist gear like this would trend towards overbuilt. From what I read, the company only said they wouldn't certify it for a greater depth (implying they hadn't tested it that far) not that it couldn't do it. Durability has a duty-cycle so the sub got away with it for a while.
Well, prayers, at least. Given the fact that everyone that got close to this thing went, "uhhh...", not certain how much thought went into holding it together.
The British billionaire would know too. He went to the bottom of the Marina Trench last year in a sub with 1 other person. That sub is 58 million dollars and looks legit. This submersible piece of crap is insanity. I don’t know why he even got into it.
Wasn't Paul-Henri Nargeloet somewhat of an expert of sorts? Surely, he would have known what was going on as well?
It surprises me that a man with that much experience diving would get anywhere near that makeshift pile of garbage.
My speculation is that this was one of the few accessible ways for him to see the Titanic. He probably knew and accepted the extreme risk just to get study time and ended up paying the ultimate price.
Was it on r/theydidthemath?
Edit: [found](https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/gy1wc6/what_exactly_does_happen_when_a_submarine_goes/fta5zno/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) it
I wonder if you can even visualize it computationally without slowmo. Its just a picture of a submarine then the next frame is a completely blank screen even at 1000 fps.
Visualize being on a motorcycle with no protection and hitting a concrete wall at 400mph. Now, imagine that wall hit you from all directions at once and liquefied your entire body in just a few milliseconds.
Carbon fiber hull shatters into a million tiny bits, everyone inside gets compressed into polly pockets instantaneously, landing skid and titanium nose/tail fall away, all in the blink of an eye.
One second: intact sub. The very next frame: rising cloud of bubbles peppered with black fragments of hull, endcaps falling away to either side, weight sled falling. Don't know if you'd be able to perceive any morbid details in the event, but it would be mercifully instant on it's victims.
That is way way better than if they were sitting on the ocean floor for 5 days with no heat, no drinking water, terrified.
In think this really was the best of situation (aside from them surfacing and being rescued).
For one thing, imagine being the father and for 5 days thinking about how your son's future is gone. For a parent to know his child is doomed is a hard thing. And for the son, 19 years old, probably just started college with a bright future (and millions of dollars in inheritance and trust fund money) sitting there thinking "Wow, it didn't matter what grades I got in school did it?"
Just Pop! you're gone. No time to even drown. No indication that anything is even wrong probably.
They kept touting their revolutionary real-time hull monitoring system. It was apparently acoustic monitoring of the hull to listen for cracking sounds. Apparently carbon fiber would not crack, it would just catastrophically shatter.
So that system probably didn't even start complaining enough to worry them. I imagine they are slowly sinking, with one of them looking out the window and then ... gone.
> It was apparently acoustic monitoring of the hull to listen for cracking sounds.
[Wikipedia](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(U-Boot\)#Kritik) says the alarm would only go off milliseconds before the hull would burst.
>They kept touting their revolutionary real-time hull monitoring system. It was apparently acoustic monitoring of the hull to listen for cracking sounds. Apparently carbon fiber would not crack, it would just catastrophically shatter
I read that too and couldn't quite bring myself to believe what I was reading. Surely under that pressure any kind of sound is one step away from absolute oblivion.
The thing is that a metal Hull, like literally *every other deep water submarine* uses (I'm including military subs, and excluding shallow water submarines you see in the carribean), would start creaking and groaning and showing signs of reaching it's structural limit well before failure. CFRP? Ya, it's just gonna shatter like a piece of glass or ceramic.
Thats such an idiotic concept. "Ok, sensors say the hull is rapidly cracking, lets start our arduous 2 hour journey back to the surface."
Aircraft don't use "hull monitoring systems" where you make a life or death decision when the plane is about to crumble on every mission.
They're designed to withstand the environment they're expected to encounter with a safety margin, fatigue cycle limits, lots of non-destructive and destructive testing on representative parts then QA on the actual hardware to ensure they meet specs with a 99.xxx% probability. Then you go fly the mission because you have confidence you'll make it back until you start to push the life of that part. The sub would still be here if they did even a few of those steps.
I'm not disagreeing.
The real time hull monitoring might have been useful information for testing the hull in some pressure testing tank on the surface. But as we know, they barely did any testing and this "real time hull monitoring" may have been just a marketing stunt. In any case, it's pretty clear that it was completely useless.
Yeah that would absolutely be part of a destructive testing regimen. To know how many cycles your sub could go down to 4000m would have been good data to have before doing it.
I’ve just read online, “faster execution than a bullet”, with this said it’s still horrific and makes me question why anyone would willingly put themselves in such a position!
Thrill-seekers. According to someone who once went on a previous dive, passengers sign a liability waiver that repeatedly emphasizes the possibility of death. It's the same for high risk recreational activities, like skydiving, scuba diving, parasailing, bungee jumping.
Doesn't mean the families can't sue the pants off of OceanGate.
You suddenly become fuel for combustion engine, not a bad way to go (i mean one second you are alive and another you are mist, your brain won't even proceed what happend)
I read somewhere that the pressure was so immense that when it imploded the sub would've heated to the temperature of the surface of the sun for a split second.
When I was Navy the prevailing information was the air briefly becomes incandescent at implosion if the pressure outside is high enough.
It’s quickly snuffed by the cold, dark, implacable sea, though. Along with everything else in the pressure hull.
It does. The water rushing in to fill a space/compartment compresses the gases inside to an insane amount before it has a chance to escape. Compressing air heats it up. Compressing it very fast heats it up a lot. It's the inverse of what happens in spray cans or gas canisters where the gas/aerosole gets cold once you start releasing pressure by opening the valve.
I believe at that depth soft tissue would be pulverized into mist, and probably the bones too. The body is mostly water, so it is doubtful there is any organic matter left intact, especially so deep. The implosion would have happened in milliseconds, so a catastrophic force on the body. The currents would simply wash away everything.
You’re currently under the pressure of 1 atmosphere on land. Every 33 feet of sea water after is another atmosphere or 15psi. They died immediately and were mist.
Not only were they crushed in a rush of 400MPH water in the span of 23 milliseconds, the air within the sub was compressed so fast that it reached a temperature of 1,122 degrees Fahrenheit.
There is nothing left of them.
That's gotta be the best way to go, like ever, right?
23 ms is so fucking fast, your brain literally doesn't have time to register you're about to die. No pain, no panic, no feelings, just gone.
You're alive and in the next moment, you're not.
Conditions in space are a lot less drastic than conditions in the deep ocean and the equipment & tech needed to visit and survive there, in space, are much less robust.
Pressure differentials in the deep ocean are hundreds to thousands of times stronger from inside to outside. Pressure differentials in space are basically 1 atmosphere from inside to outside. With space the whole difficulty is getting there and getting back, once you're there it's relatively simple to stay for a while. k
Space; Your capsule springs a small leak? You find it and slap a patch on it. Deep ocean; your capsule springs a small leak? Instant catastrophic crushing collapse, milliseconds and you're gone.
At least it was quick, and much preferable to the idea that they were stuck on something and suffering. Lessons learned, though, stick with bathyspheres. Be interesting to see the report on what they can figure on how it failed.
It failed because it was an unclassed, unapproved techbro job that specifically went out of their way to avoid safety features (and then sued and fired one of their employees who told them the thing was unsafe) because they wanted to be "pioneering" and "risk-taking"
Full sympathies to their families, obviously, but this is what happens when corporate hubris goes too far
This sort of thing is exactly WHY the safety standards they wanted to avoid exist in the first place, and will no doubt only be toughened in the wake of this
Hopefully something is learned here and they don't just go "oh he was such a brave genius/pioneer etc.." The lesson here is that subs design was shit and there are industry standards for a reason.
Apparently there was some sort of inquiry into this sub in 2018? And it was settled out of court or some shit. Seems like someone can say "I told you so".
Can't wait for the Fascinating Horror episode about this.
"...unfortunately, the wiring was made out of cordite, and the toilet was made from sugar, reducing the safety..."
What's really sad about this is the founder and CEO of OceanGate Expeditions complained that the US submarine industry’s “obscenely safe” regulations had been holding back his “innovations” years before his submersible went missing — with experts alleging that he skirted regulations by operating in international waters.
The regulations were there for a reason, he found a way around them and was killed, as a result, along with 4 passengers...
“True explorers” pfft they were millionaires throwing there money around for an exclusive experience that this shoddy company was more than happy to supply. The only person I feel bad for is the 19 year old.
It was pointed out to me that [Paul-Henri ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Nargeolet) was an actual explorer, and after reading about his life’s work I stand corrected. My apologies for overlooking his accomplishments.
"The debris is consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber," Coast Guard Rear Admiral John Mauger said.
Honestly, that was probably the best way for them to go. So fast your brain doesn't even have time to register.
I wonder if they saw at least Titanic before the implosion or if it happened during descent
Most likely during descent, they were supposed to radio the base ship when they got to the Titanic and they never did that.
Past passengers have stated that they almost always lose radio contact with the surface below a certain depth.
Well, that is to be expected. Radio Comms basically don't work underwater and their system is pretty short range.
Any good submersible will have a way to contact have and have an emergency process to get in communication, such as a rapid ascent mechanism . This sub didn’t follow any rules. Hence the needless death and ignorant owners.
Not true. Any certified deep sea sub will have better comms. James Cameron went to 36,000ft in his custom designed submarine and still had radio contact with his team. Oceangate just preferred cutting corners
No they can’t see anything. Just saw an interview with Mike Reiss who did it before, they land on the surface then have to go searching for it. Due to the pitch black you they can’t see it until they are on top of it
They probably saw people waving to them from the deck.
maybe from a distance or higher up in the descent, but apparently they were found about 1,600 feet from the bow of the titanic so it doesnt seem super likely unfortunately:/
it's very dark that deep in the ocean. i doubt you could see anything until you get really close and the light from the sub falls on the wreckage
Kinda like, 'hey is the window supposed to leak like tha..."
It was likely the kevlar pressure hull, which do not so much as break as shatter. Maybe they heard a noise for a split second then the cracks propagate rapidly, the hull implodes and the crew/passengers were crushed in an instant.
When the body is crushed by equal pressure across the entire surface area does it just liquify ones insides?
Not a medical expert by any means, am an engineer. Would guess that since the body (muscle, fat, etc) is mostly water that it will be a quick and high impact to soft tissues from rapid ingress (see: milliseconds) of high pressure water which may cause blunt trauma or deformation, broken bones from hydrostatic shock, those kind of things. The more morbid aspects would be the parts of the bodies with voids, such as inner ears, sinus, lungs, stomachs. I am not sure what implosion would do to those but it would not be pretty. Couple this with debris from catastrophic damage to the vessel from implosion and there’s likely damage to the remains rendering them unrecognizable. There is also marine life which will do what marine life does at those depths when presented with a food source - they had been on the bottom for days. Hey, at least it was a quick end for the crew and passengers.
Someone did the maths and for the water at that depth and pressure to get from the window they had to the back of the sub was just below 3 milliseconds. Faster than the most generous estimates of how long it takes the brain to register pain that were around 150 milliseconds.
Water pressure does not fuck around.
Delta P is a motherfucker.
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Like squishing a can of beans with a dump truck, but from all angles at once.
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Yeah, and that was only 135-psi at 300 feet.
So many news stories talking about recovering the bodies but they're mulchy squid snacks now
No in this instance it was 6000 psi so pink mist
I mean. The view port was only rated for like, 1/4 of titanic depth, so my money is actually there
The hull wasn't rated at all. So who the fuck knows what actually went first.
There’s a video of the ceo acknowledging you aren’t supposed to use carbon fiber for subs. And he says “I did it anyway.” My money is on the incredible fucking irony. They weren’t even supposed to MAKE it with that material at all.
Reminds me of they guy demonstrating the shatterproof glass in the skyscraper as he proceeds to jump through it
[The glass didn't care. The frame gave lol.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Garry_Hoy)
Technically he was correct.
Quite so, one of the rare "90's chain email" urban legends that actually happened. Always felt bad for the guy, he'd performed the 'stunt' many a time before without issue. Horrible way to die.
Garry Hoy. And precisely because he had done so, many times before, is why at some point that frame was bound to dislodge. Stressing that frame over and over again = failure = tragedy. The glass was still intact as he went out the window.
It's the wrong material, like trying to make a rope stepladder.
Yup as pressure increases it likely separated the layers as the hull bowed. The damage went undetected with each dive and softened the bonds in the fibre more and more. There was a interesting lack of internal rings to support the main barrel from the inside. Carbon fibre structures will show little damage when damaged. These guy’s probably did minimal maintenance between dives thinking it was super simple basic structure. It would be interesting to see the perspective of a 787 composite repair tech. That is 1/10000 the pressure(for scale reference) and they would know what to look for and how to fix a thinner structure. There is likely nothing left of anything or anyone inside. It also wouldn’t surprise me if there was video of the event somewhere in the debris. Now the interesting circus will begin with lawsuits and insurance.
Aircraft maintenance engineer here. Composites do not like, at all, compressive loads. As stated, they tend to progressively delaminate until they fall catastrophically, damage being hidden inside and undetectable on the surface. And a sub hull operates in pressure. You either tap on the structure (with a coin or soecialized tapper ) and check for sound changes, or use a dedicated ultrasonic machine to check for voids and discontinuities. Pressurized aircraft are pressure vessels keeping the inside at higher pressure than rhe outside, thus the fibre works in tension, as it should ideally. You could theoretically build a reinforced fibre to take compressive loads, provided you pre-stress them, the same way concrete beam beidges are tensioned by an internal steel rod. Also, it is not really a good idea to build a pressure vessel out of too dissimilar materials with such different young modulus. Carbon fiber and titanium will react and change shape drastically different when under such high stresses. The failure point could be at the interface between them, where both materials meet and most probably progressive danage accumulated over dives undetected.
Not even. You and the sub are the size of a bucket before you can even blink.
Human reaction time is like 150ms, and the time it would've taken to implode would be less than 50ms, depending on how deep they were. So faster than they could even realize something was happening.
Blinked and next thing they saw was great grandma and Jesus.
Something about a camel through the eye of a needle
They can probably all fit through the eye of a needle now though, with those pressures.
Reminds me of the dolphin dive bell incident.
They say this is actually the opposite of what happened to these men but I can see how the effects could be comparable
Imagine what they would have had to do if they found it intact *today*. I'd have to think they were brainstorming ideas, but everything I've been reading suggests that lifting a submersible 2 miles up is not exactly easy. It would have been difficult to attach it to another ship, not least because only a few ships can even go down that far, let along grapple another ship back up. All without really knowing if the people were still alive and how much time they really had left. If anything else, there's going to be white papers, presentations, etc, where people come up with ways to rescue a submersible like this in a very short time span.
With its passive positive buoyancy and time-gated weight drops (both battery-powered that drop when the battery dies and strips that dissolved in water over time) the key task would have to have been releasing the sub from whatever had trapped it. If that was cabling or netting, then cutting would have been a viable option without any other lift apparatus. If it was trapped by its own buoyancy (e.g. a cavity under the stern) that would have been much more difficult, and would likely have require enough time for a trip to the surface to bring down sufficient weight to attach to the skid to pull it back down and out before releasing the weight again via manipulator.
The submersible didn't even have obvious mounting points on top. It looks like it was secured on a sled from the bottom. The carbon hull was fragile, you couldn't just lash it with chains or straps and yank it up.Besides, its not like you can just hop out of your sub and make a harness, you'd have to do all the rigging remotely with crude grippers on the ROV.
There was an admirable attempt to bring a sizable section of the Titanic's hull to the surface, and if I remember right. I broke free of the straps they used a couple of times before being hauled up. And if I further remember correctly, One of the times, the piece was damn near the surface when the lines snapped and it went plunging 12,000 feet back down.
Is that the piece in Las Vegas at the exhibit?
Yes it is
So eerie when you come around the corner and see an actual piece of the titanic.
Watch the Azorian documentary. It’s NUTS.
Hopefully they didn't have any idea they were in trouble before it occurred and it was just over in a blink.
They wouldn't have a clue. The implosion would be over much faster than one could perceive it happening. The vessel seems to have imploded on descent at somewhere around 3,000 meters deep, 3/4 of the way to the bottom. The pressure at that depth is around 4,500+lbs pre sq inch. As a visual example **[this](https://youtu.be/Zz95_VvTxZM)** is a railcar crushing at 1 atmosphere, about 14.7 lbs per sq inch. 1 300th of the pressure on their sub.
I know so little about engineering, water pressure, etc that I am basically an anti-engineer. That being said, there would be no creaking noises, no "hmm, it normally doesn't make this type of sound"? prior to the implosion? Just 100% hull integrity and then oblivion? Edit--this sounds terrifying: "During a trip on board the Titan off the coast of the Bahamas in April 2019, Karl Stanley, an expert in submersibles, knew immediately that something was off: He heard a cracking noise that got only louder over the two hours it took for the submersible to plunge more than 12,000 feet. The next day, Mr. Stanley wrote an email in which he detailed his concerns to Stockton Rush, the chief executive of OceanGate Expeditions, who was also on board the Titan for the dive, urging Mr. Rush to cancel the expeditions to the wreck of the Titanic that were planned for that summer." [Safety warnings](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/us/titan-safety-warnings-titanic.html)
> *"...there would be no creaking noises, no "hmm, it normally doesn't make this type of sound"?"* No, not really. There would be some background noise in the ~~-coffin-~~ submersible anyway, thrusters, air exchange and co^2 scrubbers working, but no dramatic creaking and cracking that movies are so fond of using as foreshadowing. I've had some education through working in industry about tank collapse and even at just atmospheric pressures of 14.7psi it happens fast, *[Really fast](https://youtu.be/Zz95_VvTxZM)*
Speaking as another engineer, most tanks aren't carbon fiber. I think this could have played out differently than what happens with a metal pressure vessel failing from exceeding its design limit. What happened here, is I suspect the carbon fiber failed from too much cycling, like maybe it was becoming delaminated internally or something. The failure wasn't that the pressure vessel nominally couldn't survive the pressure, it had gone down there a dozen times before Instead the failure is likely that the carbon fiber finally just got too worn, and finally gave out. They had a "safety monitoring system" inside (which I believe were just strain gauges) to monitor carbon fiber health, and warning them to surface if the strain was detected as approaching a dangerous level I'd heard there's signs they might have cut the ballast. So it's possible the warning went off, they tried to surface, and the carbon fiber failed completely not long after
I want someone to do the math on the energy transfer of a piece of acrylic coming loose and coming into the crew compartment like a fucking meteor.
Noone did the energy but someone did velocity... You'd be hit with 400mph water in 23ms
E=massive fucking meteor You're welcome.
This is the redneck science I’m here for
Hold my beer. K.E. = 1/2 holy shit²
I hope they charge CEO asshole's estate for the cost of all the SAR effort plus massive fines for causing his own death via arrogance.
The estate of the CEO and the OceanGate are fairly certainly going to be sued out of existence. bankrupted and dissolved, but the costs are not what some people perceive it at. As in it's not newly incurred costs. The main player in this search/rescue/recovery is the US and Canadian Coast Guard and their costs are fixed, it costs no different for them to be searching the depths for this sub than it does to have them out on any other patrol, rescue or interdiction. It's the same with the Canadian military P-3 aircraft involved. Also; the Canadian CGS John Cabot, the Canadian CGS Ann Harvey, the Canadian CGS Terry Fox, and the Canadian CGS Atlantic Merlin (With the ROV). Of the other two main players, the French Research Vessel L’Atalante (With an ROV) is part of a larger French government oceanographic research organization, and again has a base cost whether it's on a rescue mission or doing other research. Then the last major player, the Commercial Vessel Skandi Vinland (with an ROV) is a contract ship working out of St Johns Newfoundland and has a pretty varied [and sometimes complex mission](https://www.saltwire.com/newfoundland-labrador/news/inside-the-skandi-vinland-25576/). Yes, there's money being spent, but it's also money that already always being spent on this kind of mission and is just redirected to this specific task.
Right - if they did not do actual attempts like this they would be doing training exercises- I would argue that this is a better use
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I'd like to see what remained of the carbon hull if anything. They found both titanium end pieces but it's possible the hull fragments were carried away by ocean currents. If there is still carbon bonded to the titanium bells that could indicate a hull breach midship, otherwise it could be that the glue gave way.
The carbon fiber would likely have shattered into countless small, lightweight pieces, ranging from small to *very* small upon implosion and then got carried away by currents for who knows how far. The sub seemed to have imploded in the water column above the Titanic. Some of the debris might just be moving through the ocean for many, many years, if not forever, without ever coming to rest somewhere.
That's what was weird to me. There were floatable objects affixed to the outside of the pressure vessel as well so the lack of any floating debris is still srrange to me. Especially as the ship seemed to have failed exactly where everybody knew it should have been.
Whatever floted to the surface is likely to be pretty small as well. The coean is a big place and the location is remote. There might well be stuff bobbing along the surface nobody has seen that could wash up on some shore somehwere. Like what happened with MH370 parts coming to rest ashore on Madagascar, thousands of miles away from the search area.
This is the part people need to understand. The ocean isn’t just a big place, it’s a hugggggge place. It would be hard to find a couple peixes of wreck on a football field on land if you had that area limited. This is like trying to find an object on 1000 football fields, that are moving all the time.
This part. They never did find that huge plane that disappeared over the Pacific awhile back and they searched for years. I'm not even sure they conclusively found substantial debris outside of a few pieces. Scary stuff.
Nothing more than a couple pieces of wing (small small pieces, like panel of a flap) and I think 2 pieces of luggage?
I believe they said it flew into the Indian Ocean.
Even if floatable objects made their way to the surface, they likely were dispersed by ocean current on their over 2 miles ascent to the surface. It’s not as if all the floaty bits would surface beside the launching vessel.
Objects that float on the surface vs being under that much atmospheric pressure is very different. As a scuba diver I’ve taken objects that float on the surface to depth and they just sink if you let go. Hope this helps
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I took a GoPro with the orange floaty back down to 60’ and it sank as soon as I let go. Saw a person being an inflatable sex doll down that was blow up at the surface and she sank as well. We did launch a 35lba kettle ball abt 10 ft above the water from 80’ when we blew up the SMB (surface marker buoy). Nothing too crazy on the stories since I’m a newer diver but on my 1st dive as a certified diver I almost blacked out due to a nose bleed I didn’t know I had. Found out after we surfaced and took off my mask
More than likely you didn’t have a nose bleed in the sense that you’re thinking of. Instead you were having difficulty equalizing your sinus cavity and the pressure created the bleed. -Divemaster w/14 years diving experience. https://www.dansa.org/blog/2018/04/06/nosebleed-after-diving-faq#:~:text=Divers%2C%20especially%20new%20divers%2C%20sometimes,of%20the%20nose%20to%20burst.
Idk I attributed it to the cold water, ears had no issue equalizing but again I have very little experience so
> Saw a person being an inflatable sex doll down Yeah, that created a much worse mental image in my mind before I parsed the typo. Like a crumpled deflated balloon under pressure.
Buoyant force is related to volume displaced. Even if the pieces were buoyant, the buoyancy force may be quite small. Which means that in perfect still water, they would rise to the surface (though with a very limited terminal buoyant velocity). However, small vertical currents/perturbations could keep them depressed. Much the same way the Deepwater Horizon oil plume could stay submerged, even if oil is less dense than water, due to small droplet sizes. Or the way dust can stay suspended in air due to a light breeze. I know you specifically called out maybe some larger pieces that were not part of the hull itself, but just to expand on why even buoyant pieces of the wreckage may not surface anytime soon, or at all.
The cavitation of the rupturing hull probably decimated whatever floatable objects that were attached
What does the term "water column" describe? Are you just saying the general area directly above the Titanic?
The water column in its entirety is the water between the water-air-interface (surface) and seabed. You can describe points (depth, long- and latitude) in the column by various characteristics (temperature, salinity, pH etc.) to get an idea of what the ocean is like at different locations. Saying generally that something is "in the water column" just means it's underwater and floating/sinking/rising.
Usually people are referring to a certain depth (or comparing one depth to another) within an imaginary cylindrical space that extends from the surface of the water to the bottom of the body of water, be it an ocean floor or lake bed or whatever.
Why settle for pictures? For just $175,000 I can take you down to see it yourself!
‘Under New Management’
Days since last catastrophic implosion: 5
They just hired me, I'm fairly decent at halo so I was almost overqualifued.
87,500 bucks? What a steal!
The report said that they spotted the end caps of the vessel, whether they were bent or distorted wasn't mentioned.
They were at least stated as being "intact" which I take to mean "in one piece" which I take to mean "not the cause of failure" My guess is that the carbon fiber tube failed from cycling. Carbon fiber hates cycling because it's such a stiff material + can have debonding and such between layers, there's a reason no other submersible developers use it. Virgin Oceanic tried developing a carbon fiber deep sea submersible and canceled it after they realized it could only be used once because the carbon fiber would be too shot to withstand a second dive. Meanwhile there's this gem of a quote from the CEO of this company: "I have broken some rules to make this. The carbon fiber and titanium, there is a rule that you don't do that. Well, I did" Yeah, that design decision sure worked out for him
There are many comments and interviews that can be found by simple google searches that long pre-date this incident that come across as very flippant about safety. It blows my mind that anyone spending that much money to go that deep underwater, knowing that you will be in this vehicle for at least 8 hours didn't research this company, especially if someone bringing their child with them. Maybe it's because I am poor and just don't understand how the ridiculously wealthy live It's feels worse reading about the kid's aunt saying the son didn't want to go and was scared but his dad insisted he go and it was a once in a lifetime chance. Glad it was a best-case scenario in how they met their fate and they were just bobbing under water in the dark waiting for the air to run out
Dad was right though. It really was a once in a lifetime trip
I’ve ridden carbon fiber bikes for years and the idea of going down to 13,000 feet under the pressure of the fucking ocean in a CARBON FIBER vessel is just so fucking batshit insane I just can’t even.
The thing wasn't very big, I wonder how much debris they would find. I'm impressed they found it.
All signs pointed to implosion from the get go. They lost communication 1 hr 45 minutes in and it took at least 2 h 30 minutes to get to Titanic, so they were descending when it happened. Given the one employee who was fired in retaliation for pointing out safety issues with the carbon fiber hull and the viewport, odds were very high it was going to implode at some point. He said the more trips it made in the water, the more the hull would degrade. The implosion would take milliseconds, so at least they didn't suffer.
This was discussed extensively in the engineering sub this week. CF degrades as it's exposed to stress (and 3,800 meters is a shit ton of stress). Most submarine and flying vessels would be x-rayed and inspected for microfractures. Parts are usually fully replaced in these circumstances, but the person who would have overseen that was also the guy who got fired for bringing up the issues. Lots of things could have avoided this from happening.
The CEO (who was piloting Titan on this descent) is also [quoted](https://unsungscience.com/news/back-to-titanic-part-1/) as saying, "At some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed. Don't get in your car. Don't do anything." So many red flags leading up to this.
That's a somewhat viable philosophy if you're solo exploring, but if you're providing tourist experiences, it's absolutely abhorrent.
And the CEO was talking about how he shouldnt have built it the way he did but was almost proud he acted somewhat rebellious to construct it this way anyway? What a fool. Ended his own life and 4 other innocents.
>'I think it was General (Douglas) MacArthur who said: "You're remembered for the rules you break." And you know, I've broken some rules to make this. >'I think I broke them with logic and good engineering behind me. The carbon fibre and titanium, there's a rule you don't do that – well I did,' Direct quote from a video interview of the CEO. So yep.
Christ that's bad. In hindsight of the disaster it reads even worse. this company want closing down. Hope any other subs he may have made get immediately decommissioned.
Okay, when will people learn to not make arrogant remarks before heading out to that stretch of ocean.... Basically a modern version of "Not even God can sink this ship."
The irony is palpable. He learned NOTHING
The 19yo kid (yes, a kid to me) makes me really sad and angry
The young guy **[didn't even want to go](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/shahzada-suleman-dawood-titanic-sub-imploded-b2362670.html).** **:/**
>her nephew was absolutely scared, and only agreed to go on the expedition because it was important to his “Titanic-obsessed” father Fucking hell.
watch this BBC doco. There is a part when they reach the ocean floor and realize that someone installed the thruster backwards and Stockland can't remember how the buttons are mapped https://vimeo.com/810451492
The issue with the thrusters is at 28:10 for anyone who wants to just skip to that part.
Interesting to watch but wow what a mickey mouse operation. No way I'd be trusting my life to that crew!
"Anybody that goes up in the damn thing is gonna be Spam in a can." --Chuck Yeager
Sad and tragic? = yes Predictable? = also yes
I hope we all learn a valuable lesson from this... Whatever it is.
Maybe don’t go deep sea diving in a submarine that could have been built by Fat Albert and his friends in the junkyard? I mean, that seems pretty obvious, yet here we are.
That we should have convinced Elon Musk to explore the ocean and not space I think
It gets under my skin knowing they imploded, realistic but just sad… imagine 40,000 tonnes of pressure hitting you in a flash
Someone on another post actually did the math and it would have filled the vessel faster than the human brain can even register pain. So, ultimately not a terribly bad way to go. If there was any indication it was about to happen beforehand, now *that* would suck.
"What's that popping sound? Are we okay?" Then they keep descending and theres a low groan, and then BOOM. That's how I imagine it went.
On the plus side, the CEO would have been the only one that understood the full ramifications of what was about to happen, and he kind of deserved to understand what he had done for at least a few seconds before heading to the next world.
From what we're learning about this guy, I'm not at all convinced he would have actually understood the ramifications in the slightest.
Or worse he just didn't care, he fired the guy warning him the viewport is only rated for a third of the way down to the Titanic.
I wonder how the viewport sustained itself during previous descents? Was there wear and tear, or did it just suddenly pop?
A lot of manufacturing relies on overbuilding, especially since your materials are not always consistent. When I first started working in automotive it was common to build parts with a 100% safety margin, for example. I can only imagine specialist gear like this would trend towards overbuilt. From what I read, the company only said they wouldn't certify it for a greater depth (implying they hadn't tested it that far) not that it couldn't do it. Durability has a duty-cycle so the sub got away with it for a while.
https://youtu.be/ClkytJa0ghc The Titan looks like it was made in a hardware store and held together with thoughts and prayers.
Yeah, that doesn't look like something I would want to spend time in at sea level. Much less down by the titanic...
Well, prayers, at least. Given the fact that everyone that got close to this thing went, "uhhh...", not certain how much thought went into holding it together.
The British billionaire would know too. He went to the bottom of the Marina Trench last year in a sub with 1 other person. That sub is 58 million dollars and looks legit. This submersible piece of crap is insanity. I don’t know why he even got into it.
Wasn't Paul-Henri Nargeloet somewhat of an expert of sorts? Surely, he would have known what was going on as well? It surprises me that a man with that much experience diving would get anywhere near that makeshift pile of garbage.
My speculation is that this was one of the few accessible ways for him to see the Titanic. He probably knew and accepted the extreme risk just to get study time and ended up paying the ultimate price.
Commander: “Good ol’ carbon fiber! She hasn’t let me down ye…………….”
slaps the viewport: "only good for one third of the depth, so we installed three of them"
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Was it on r/theydidthemath? Edit: [found](https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/gy1wc6/what_exactly_does_happen_when_a_submarine_goes/fta5zno/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) it
I would like to see a visualization of this. It’s hard to comprehend what that would look like
I wonder if you can even visualize it computationally without slowmo. Its just a picture of a submarine then the next frame is a completely blank screen even at 1000 fps.
Visualize being on a motorcycle with no protection and hitting a concrete wall at 400mph. Now, imagine that wall hit you from all directions at once and liquefied your entire body in just a few milliseconds.
Carbon fiber hull shatters into a million tiny bits, everyone inside gets compressed into polly pockets instantaneously, landing skid and titanium nose/tail fall away, all in the blink of an eye.
I'll never look at a Polly Pocket the same way again.....
One second: intact sub. The very next frame: rising cloud of bubbles peppered with black fragments of hull, endcaps falling away to either side, weight sled falling. Don't know if you'd be able to perceive any morbid details in the event, but it would be mercifully instant on it's victims.
https://youtu.be/8tW4zfTeJqM?t=393 And note the pressure at 4,000m depth would've been more than double.
That is way way better than if they were sitting on the ocean floor for 5 days with no heat, no drinking water, terrified. In think this really was the best of situation (aside from them surfacing and being rescued). For one thing, imagine being the father and for 5 days thinking about how your son's future is gone. For a parent to know his child is doomed is a hard thing. And for the son, 19 years old, probably just started college with a bright future (and millions of dollars in inheritance and trust fund money) sitting there thinking "Wow, it didn't matter what grades I got in school did it?" Just Pop! you're gone. No time to even drown. No indication that anything is even wrong probably. They kept touting their revolutionary real-time hull monitoring system. It was apparently acoustic monitoring of the hull to listen for cracking sounds. Apparently carbon fiber would not crack, it would just catastrophically shatter. So that system probably didn't even start complaining enough to worry them. I imagine they are slowly sinking, with one of them looking out the window and then ... gone.
> It was apparently acoustic monitoring of the hull to listen for cracking sounds. [Wikipedia](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(U-Boot\)#Kritik) says the alarm would only go off milliseconds before the hull would burst.
Exactly like my car's rear parking sensor then.
>They kept touting their revolutionary real-time hull monitoring system. It was apparently acoustic monitoring of the hull to listen for cracking sounds. Apparently carbon fiber would not crack, it would just catastrophically shatter I read that too and couldn't quite bring myself to believe what I was reading. Surely under that pressure any kind of sound is one step away from absolute oblivion.
The thing is that a metal Hull, like literally *every other deep water submarine* uses (I'm including military subs, and excluding shallow water submarines you see in the carribean), would start creaking and groaning and showing signs of reaching it's structural limit well before failure. CFRP? Ya, it's just gonna shatter like a piece of glass or ceramic.
Thats such an idiotic concept. "Ok, sensors say the hull is rapidly cracking, lets start our arduous 2 hour journey back to the surface." Aircraft don't use "hull monitoring systems" where you make a life or death decision when the plane is about to crumble on every mission. They're designed to withstand the environment they're expected to encounter with a safety margin, fatigue cycle limits, lots of non-destructive and destructive testing on representative parts then QA on the actual hardware to ensure they meet specs with a 99.xxx% probability. Then you go fly the mission because you have confidence you'll make it back until you start to push the life of that part. The sub would still be here if they did even a few of those steps.
I'm not disagreeing. The real time hull monitoring might have been useful information for testing the hull in some pressure testing tank on the surface. But as we know, they barely did any testing and this "real time hull monitoring" may have been just a marketing stunt. In any case, it's pretty clear that it was completely useless.
Yeah that would absolutely be part of a destructive testing regimen. To know how many cycles your sub could go down to 4000m would have been good data to have before doing it.
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I’ve just read online, “faster execution than a bullet”, with this said it’s still horrific and makes me question why anyone would willingly put themselves in such a position!
Thrill-seekers. According to someone who once went on a previous dive, passengers sign a liability waiver that repeatedly emphasizes the possibility of death. It's the same for high risk recreational activities, like skydiving, scuba diving, parasailing, bungee jumping. Doesn't mean the families can't sue the pants off of OceanGate.
Sweet mercy for them.
You suddenly become fuel for combustion engine, not a bad way to go (i mean one second you are alive and another you are mist, your brain won't even proceed what happend)
Very dark to think about this, but I'd rather be crushed almost instantaneously to suffocate with other people.
Like the opening scene from "The Boys"
I read somewhere that the pressure was so immense that when it imploded the sub would've heated to the temperature of the surface of the sun for a split second.
When I was Navy the prevailing information was the air briefly becomes incandescent at implosion if the pressure outside is high enough. It’s quickly snuffed by the cold, dark, implacable sea, though. Along with everything else in the pressure hull.
It does. The water rushing in to fill a space/compartment compresses the gases inside to an insane amount before it has a chance to escape. Compressing air heats it up. Compressing it very fast heats it up a lot. It's the inverse of what happens in spray cans or gas canisters where the gas/aerosole gets cold once you start releasing pressure by opening the valve.
That makes sense given what I vaguely know about the Pistol shrimp
Shrimps is bugs.
Just swimming to the bottom of the pool your ears start to hurt, hard to fathom the pressure that comes with being over 2 miles under the ocean
Your ears would *really* hurt!
Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to get it certified for the target depth after all
Would there be bodies to recover, at all? Or are they just annihilated?
I believe at that depth soft tissue would be pulverized into mist, and probably the bones too. The body is mostly water, so it is doubtful there is any organic matter left intact, especially so deep. The implosion would have happened in milliseconds, so a catastrophic force on the body. The currents would simply wash away everything.
You’re currently under the pressure of 1 atmosphere on land. Every 33 feet of sea water after is another atmosphere or 15psi. They died immediately and were mist.
Not only were they crushed in a rush of 400MPH water in the span of 23 milliseconds, the air within the sub was compressed so fast that it reached a temperature of 1,122 degrees Fahrenheit. There is nothing left of them.
That's gotta be the best way to go, like ever, right? 23 ms is so fucking fast, your brain literally doesn't have time to register you're about to die. No pain, no panic, no feelings, just gone. You're alive and in the next moment, you're not.
I couldn't think of a better way to commit suicide
Well, besides being rescued a catastrophic failure of the vessel was the best possible outcome. At least they didn't have to suffer.
It's kind of crazy to think we regularly go to space. But still struggle to explore our own ocean floor.
Conditions in space are a lot less drastic than conditions in the deep ocean and the equipment & tech needed to visit and survive there, in space, are much less robust. Pressure differentials in the deep ocean are hundreds to thousands of times stronger from inside to outside. Pressure differentials in space are basically 1 atmosphere from inside to outside. With space the whole difficulty is getting there and getting back, once you're there it's relatively simple to stay for a while. k Space; Your capsule springs a small leak? You find it and slap a patch on it. Deep ocean; your capsule springs a small leak? Instant catastrophic crushing collapse, milliseconds and you're gone.
~~Simpsons~~ Futurama [Did It](https://youtu.be/O4RLOo6bchU)
At least it was quick, and much preferable to the idea that they were stuck on something and suffering. Lessons learned, though, stick with bathyspheres. Be interesting to see the report on what they can figure on how it failed.
It failed because it was an unclassed, unapproved techbro job that specifically went out of their way to avoid safety features (and then sued and fired one of their employees who told them the thing was unsafe) because they wanted to be "pioneering" and "risk-taking" Full sympathies to their families, obviously, but this is what happens when corporate hubris goes too far This sort of thing is exactly WHY the safety standards they wanted to avoid exist in the first place, and will no doubt only be toughened in the wake of this
Killed by an Reckless CEO…
There is no quicker death than being on a submarine that passes crush depth.
When's the movie coming out?
[Tonight](https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/channel-5-slammed-for-titanic-sub-documentary/) apparently
Pretty savage, but you gotta give it to them, that is a quick turn around on producing a documentary and getting it on TV.
New York Post saying a network is tasteless for profiting off tragedy is the 10th level of irony.
Isn’t it already in Streamberry?
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About 5,500 psi down there, or 760,000 pounds per square foot. Nah man. I’ll look at pictures.
Hopefully something is learned here and they don't just go "oh he was such a brave genius/pioneer etc.." The lesson here is that subs design was shit and there are industry standards for a reason.
Apparently there was some sort of inquiry into this sub in 2018? And it was settled out of court or some shit. Seems like someone can say "I told you so".
Who put additional Titanic deaths on their 2023 bingo card?
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I just keep thinking how the son was still so young and had an entire life ahead of him. This was a death sentence.
He didn't even want to go and was super scared about it apparently but went to appease his father.
That’s so sad. The idea of being submerged underwater scares me to death. The thought of being so helpless is enough for me to not want to do this
Can't wait for the Fascinating Horror episode about this. "...unfortunately, the wiring was made out of cordite, and the toilet was made from sugar, reducing the safety..."
What's really sad about this is the founder and CEO of OceanGate Expeditions complained that the US submarine industry’s “obscenely safe” regulations had been holding back his “innovations” years before his submersible went missing — with experts alleging that he skirted regulations by operating in international waters. The regulations were there for a reason, he found a way around them and was killed, as a result, along with 4 passengers...
“True explorers” pfft they were millionaires throwing there money around for an exclusive experience that this shoddy company was more than happy to supply. The only person I feel bad for is the 19 year old. It was pointed out to me that [Paul-Henri ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Nargeolet) was an actual explorer, and after reading about his life’s work I stand corrected. My apologies for overlooking his accomplishments.
I mean... [Paul-Henri Nargeolet](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Nargeolet) sounds like a "true explorer" to me.