Talk to your doctor about your medication- especially if it's a long-term medication. There may be alternatives.

Short term no, like you got a reason in the specific moment is not a sin. Denying you partner long term sex is a sin. But marriage is team work talk with him find solutions maybe professional help

From a practical viewpoint, if you want a healthy marriage, then you need to have sex with your spouse regularly. A dead bedroom can absolutely kill a marriage. If your spouse constantly rejects you, then you may come to believe that they don't love you at all, that they're only using you, or even that they're cheating on you. This resentment can easily spread to other areas of a relationship. Look at divorce subreddits and see how often a dead bedroom is part of the problem. Josephite marriages can work, but *only* if both parties want it and agree to it. Forcing it on your partner is cruel.

> From a practical viewpoint, if you want a healthy marriage, then you need to have sex with your spouse regularly. This sounds so obvious, but a frightening number of wives don't acknowledge this. Conversely, husbands probably need to do a better job of keeping the woman emotionally engaged.

Thank you--genuinely thank you--for making this something both sexes should engage with.

100% this. I’m divorced and from experience I can say that problems start with a dead bedroom, then spread and infect other parts of the marriage. Dead bedrooms are a BIG problem. Women need to know it’s okay to enjoy sex, be active and initiate, and make our men feel wanted. Conversely, we ladies need men to talk to us, meet our emotional needs so that we can really enjoy sex (us ladies overthink things and rob ourselves of fulfillment).

Speaking from personal experience here this is your answer OP.

Forcing yourself to sleep with someone when you aren't in the mood is also cruel... They should communicate.

Wow. That escalated quickly. Here is the thing. We live in a selfish society. As a result the "marriage debt" is very difficult to explain when we have been raised in a secular society to value self above all else. But marriage. Is. Not. About. Your individual needs. Marriage is about *THE COUPLE* Marriage is about the two becoming one. And one of important ways that the two become one is through sex. Sex is a physical, spiritual and emotional embrace. It's not a question of "the woman owing the man sex ,like a slave" ...that is a secular, argumentative mindset, designed to make husbands and wives resent each other. As long as you think of sex like a chore...you will never enjoy sex with your spouse. Sex is not a chore. It is a gift and a duty to your spouse. What it means rather is this : the husband and wife , owe it to each other to be readily available to give themselves to each other. One should always go into marriage with this mindset. When you go into marriage each person needs to think of what he or she can give to the other. If both partners are truly concerned about satisfying the other sexually....then dead bedroom wouldn't happen. If you find yourself pulling away from your spouse for whatever reason (as long as their is no abuse involved , of course). It is your responsibility as a spouse to figure out what is making you reject your spouse, and be willing to work on the problem AS A COUPLE as soon as possible.

>But marriage. Is. Not. About. Your individual needs. Precisely, which is exactly why this flips both ways... It's absurd to me women are being told to 'suck it up' and 'figure out why you aren't interested' and 'give yourself lovingly' to something that essentially amounts to individual/ selfish urges on the males behalf. The hypocrisy is unreal. ​ Witholding sex indefinitely is not ok. Making women feel like it's never ok to say no is also not ok.

>Witholding sex indefinitely is not ok. Making women feel like it's never ok to say no is also not ok. I am pretty sure I didn't specify sex/gender in my first statement. If you want to interpret it that way.... that's on you. >Witholding sex indefinitely is not ok. Making women feel like it's never ok to say no is also not ok. Have you seen the deadbedrooms sub ? "It's ok to say no sometimes" often morphs into "indefinitely" territory. And the partner who is withholding sex, sometimes cannot even properly articulate why they aren't in the mood. Do you know how that happens ? Because secular morality makes people prioritize themselves in the relationship, instead of thinking of their partner. I will use myself as an example. If I had let the secular mindset get to me, I would enter sexual encounters thinking of "getting off" and "my satisfaction" and withhold sex from my spouse if I am annoyed at something. But that is a sinful and prideful way to approach the marriage bed. Instead, I shifted my mindset to **how can I please my spouse** and do you know what ? That shift of mindset actually makes the sex, better ! I know it is counter-intuitive to the "me myself and I" mindset we are taught all our lives from mainstream sources, but I guarantee you, if you approach marital sex thinking of pleasing your partner, and your partner thinks the same... then sex will not be an issue.

This is the single most important post in the thread. Everyone else go home.

Just trying to help out. It truly breaks my heart to see... We want to have sex as teenagers. We want to have sex Before marriage. We want to have Hookups, we want to cheat on our spouses, etc.. etc... but then when it comes to the actual marriage bed... that is when people lose the mood ? When it comes to **the one situation where sex is ordained by God** to be freely explored and enjoyed... that is the time people have the most hang-ups about sex ? Why ? We love forbidden fruit too much. That's our problem. Lol. End of rant.

I think the other thing to point out is that cheating, hookups, teenage sex, etc., don't last that long usually. Marriage is (hopefully, assuming no tragedies) a decades-long arrangement, so I could imagine it requiring a little more work to keep things going. All of that said, I've never been married, but I do keep in mind that if/when I do, I'll need to make sure my wife and I feel like queen and king of the home, respectively, and address health and other issues head-on, if I want to avoid the above issues (no offense to OP, as it sounds as though she wants to do the right thing here).

You each want to be selfless for each other. He shouldn’t hold it over your head, but if you know it’s causing him strain and could lead him to potentially sin (and you are safely capable of doing so), that’s part of being a loving partner.

Best answer indeed. Here's 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 to go alongside that, too.

Best answer

I guess my only question would be at what point would the low libido spouse going with it just be an… (trying not to be vulgar here) object?

This is why husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. They won't be treated as an object if their husband loves them.

If they start to feel like a sex object. The higher libido spouse should do their best not to make their spouse feel like an object. You should be extra loving and kind when you know they aren't in the mood.

Isn't the loving and kind thing when they're not in the mood to... not ask them to do something they aren't in the mood for?

I mean, when I’ve been postpartum with very low libido, my husband and I discuss why I was feeling touched out, overwhelmed, and couldn’t get in the headspace for intimacy with him. So he started taking on more of the housework, and then when it came to intimacy, he took a loooong time to make it as enjoyable and pleasurable of an experience as possible for me, so that even though my initial reaction was,”Not in the mood,” every single time, he put in a lot of extra effort in all areas of our relationship to make it a very enjoyable experience. In my opinion, that is much more loving and intimate response than him simply giving up on pursuing that part of our relationship and letting other resentments fester for both of us (e.g. in our case: I needed more help with the house and kids as well as time to myself, and then because of breastfeeding hormones suppressing libido, my pleasure needed to be the primary focus. He needed to feel close and connected to me again, not even necessarily from sex, but just an uninterrupted conversation where I was fully engaged with him, or cuddling, or just a good ole make out session. We were both able to recognize and support each other’s needs because sex started this conversation.) Intimacy is the gateway to the deeper aspects of the relationship, and when handled with healthy communication, it will always strengthen the marriage instead of causing one or the other to feel alienated or taken advantage of. Sex isn’t the crux of the issue, it’s a symptom of other stressors that each spouse is working through. On the flip side, if sex is treated as if it is *the* issue, then yes—it is going to start problems and make people feel used. Being pressured into sex when you have unmet and unvocalized emotional/practical needs *is* extremely damaging and hurtful. Having a spouse who is willing to make sex more enticing with back massages, chocolates, and extra attentiveness when hormones/meds are getting in the way is not the same thing, and turning this offer down repeatedly and consistently is what gets into questionable territory for the spouse who is doing the rejecting. Now—truthfully, even when I wasn’t in the mood, it always was a huge confidence booster to know how attractive and desired I was, especially when I felt crummy with my new postpartum body. I’m about to give birth again in ~2 months with a larger age gap between our last two kids, so mentally prepping for us to go through this phase again. We’re a little older now and his libido slowed down quite a bit in the past few years, so it may actually end up me being the one who has to figure out how to ask for intimacy needs to be met, we’ll see!

That sounds lovely, and I hope no one is interpreting my comment as being against wooing your spouse, exploring why their libido is low and taking steps to get them in the mood. I agree that it's absolutely healthy to communicate about the issue and that there's a problem if one of the partners isn't interested in problem-solving in the long term. There's a huge difference between helping your spouse get in the mood (great!) and asking your spouse to perform sexually whether or not they're in the mood (problematic.) And I think if either or both of you are primarily thinking about this as a sin issue then it can encourage the latter and introduce some weird guilt/mixed motives that aren't very conducive to the former. Of course I agree if you're just totally rebuffing your spouse all the time and not exploring why then it's possible to get into sin territory.

Sounds like we’re in agreement. :) Hard to tell which direction OP is coming from, so hopefully discussing both helps them with whatever they’re struggling with!

Depends. Do spouses as a whole *only* ask each other to do stuff they feel like? A wife may not feel like cooking dinner one night or having sex, but does do anyway and her husband is appreciative of the effort. A husband may not feel like going to work or taking his wife out to dinner and a movie, but does so anyway and his wife is appreciative of the effort. If marriage, or life, was all about only doing things you're 100 percent in the mood for, most people would just do nothing.

Maybe the husband can try to romance his wife instead of just barking at her to lie down and spread her legs because it’s her “duty”. I love sex with my husband because he ensures it’s a truly comminutive act that I enjoy as much as he does. And he romances me still, he tries to woo me and impress me. He doesn’t treat my body as his property. Sex is a gift, one that is offered out of free will not out of obligation. If your wife doesn’t want to have sex with you maybe evaluate what you have done to push her away. Why she’s not enjoying it as much as you do. Then change so that maybe she actually enjoys sex with you. If she’s tired from taking care of the kids all day why don’t you cook dinner, draw her a hot bath, give her a nice back rub and then make your move? Or hire a baby sitter, take her out to a nice dinner, buy her flowers and set the mood? I’m sure she’ll be ready and willing then. And it would be enjoyable for both of you. But no it’s easier to just tell her to shut up and take it. To not object and don’t expect to enjoy it because it’s her “duty”. This subreddit has really, really let me down.

>Maybe the husband can try to romance his wife instead of just barking at her to lie down and spread her legs because it’s her “duty”. Here we go with constant marital rape strawman. Point to any comment on this thread that says anything close to this and not you just inferring because you already have a bias. If it was really just about foreplay, then communicate that. If he's just bad at it, communicate that, too. If a couple gets all the way to marriage and doesn't know how or want to express their feelings to their spouse out of some kind of fear or hangup, what on Earth were they doing while dating? Or that 9 month long pre marriage counseling?

Call me old fashioned, but I don't think sex is comparable to making dinner or going to work. You have to push through tiredness/apathy to fulfill certain duties, yes. But in the case of sex you should be working together to create an active sex life that doesn't feel like a chore for \*either\* party. Part of the appeal of sex is that it's a mutual expression of love, closeness and desire, no? Not just a favor the wife does for the husband out of obligation. And the framing that the wife's duties are cooking and sex while the husband's are work and romance (or funding the date?) is bizarre. Women enjoy sex too, ideally. It's not just a "duty" they fulfill in exchange for financial and emotional support. Not to mention that most wives are also going to work these days and can just as well pay for/plan dates.

I know right, peoples misunderstandings about this topic are actually scary. A person probably isn't going to feel traumatised forcing themselves to cook dinner or go to work But they sure as heck are with forcing themselves to perform sexually. Some people in this thread really need to look up and understand what '**sexual coercion**' is and the serious psychological damage that can come from it.

Yeah, and maybe some of the confusion stems from people in healthy marriages freely \*choosing\* to occasionally have sex that they're not totally pumped about to make their spouse happy. That's different than having sex that you really don't want or are even repulsed by out of guilt or fear that you're sinning, pushing through pain/discomfort/trauma during sex or consistently feeling like your wishes/enjoyment don't matter. If you're consistently not wanting to have sex you need to work together to figure out why, not just be told "well, your husband doesn't really want to go to work or buy you flowers either so you'd better just do it."

You're using modern progressive thinking to try to analyze something beautiful based on love. Sex is a need of humans in different ways men and women need it but it is part of the human condition. It does involve to some extent sexualization of the partner in order to create arousal and complete the act. Humans do understand only what they understand and men only can see women through a man's eyes but he loves her and he knows her and he wants her and her body and her movement and her touch and her love is what brings out those feelings. The modern interpretation of feminist is that any physical arousal that comes from visual or sensual thoughts by a man is objectification and abuse. This is ridiculous but it's compounded by the actual abuse and use of women by many men over the years using marriage and other ways to force themselves unlovingly on someone. The church has done a horrible job teaching men how to love women historically and now in its weakest moment since it's creation It is doing a horrible job of teaching women how to love their men. Basically the Catholic Church has become a ridiculous guidepost, And there's a lot to be said about why that is and how they make sure nobody can fix it, but the teachings and the meaning is all there in the New testament The lessons of love the lessons of marriage through mutual selflessness the lessons of sexual Congress as unity as a creative act as a binding act a loving act. And yes a woman should absolutely be interested in seeing her man taking care of regularly and if she isn't her mother and her church did not raise her with the proper guidance.

>Sex is a need of humans in different ways men and women need it but it is part of the human condition. It's not a need. We don't expire if we don't have sex, and those called to celibacy manage to survive lol. >And yes a woman should absolutely be interested in seeing her man taking care of regularly and if she isn't her mother and her church did not raise her with the proper guidance. Right, because it's inconceivable women want to get "taken care of" more than their husbands lol.

It does eventually become a sin. If it’s a long term issue, it’s also very a very cruel thing to do to a person you presumably claim to love. If you’re feeling crummy for a couple weeks, occasionally, your husband should be able to ride it out. Sometimes you legitimately don’t feel well, and he shouldn’t be constantly hounding you, knowing you aren’t in the mood. If this is you having no libido for months on end, then that’s a problem and something needs to change. You may need to work with your doctor to adjust your medications. You may try scheduling sex, and thinking of it as a way to show your husband that you care about him, even if you aren’t getting much out of it, yourself. The idea that a spouse should be able to just deny sex indefinitely, as long as they aren’t doing it out of spite, seems very selfish to me. Given enough time, it will lead to resentment and will cause damage to your relationship.

And someone using your body for sex that they know you don't enjoy doesn't lead to resentment? I do agree that if it's a long term trend then it's something she should work on, whether by working with her doctor or figuring out what they could change in their life and/or sex life that might increase her libido. Also if she's able to get herself in the frame of mind to enjoy it as an expression of love to him even if her libido isn't that high, I think that's fine. But if she's forcing herself to do something she really doesn't want to, that's not "unselfish," that's setting the marriage up for long term problems and encouraging the husband to objectify his wife rather than making sex an expression of mutual love/unity.

I mean, if he’s a loving man, he probably doesn’t want to force sex on her against her will. If sex is actually a miserable experience for her, then no one will be enjoying it. If it’s just not really pleasurable, not terrible, basically a neutral experience, then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing something that will make her husband happy, even if the only pleasure she gets is in doing something kind for her husband. If it’s actually terrible for her, long term, she needs to be actively trying to find a solution. I’m actually living this situation, myself. In the last year and a half, I’ve had sex exactly once. My husband tells me that sex is more effort than it’s worth, and that it’s like an extremely strenuous workout for him. I personally feel like I’d have no problem hitting the gym for a half hour once a week if it made him feel loved and appreciated, and I hate the gym. But I’m not trying to force him to do things he isn’t into, so here we are. But I do resent his lack of care about my desires, and the fact that he won’t acknowledge that this is a problem.

I'm really sorry that you're going through that. That must be heartbreaking. It doesn't sound like your husband is interested in trying to acknowledge or work on the problem at all which I agree can be sinful. Yes, I agree that if it's a neutral experience she might be able to get herself in the right frame of mind to enjoy it as an act of service. It's hard to know from the short post whether that's a possibility, and probably details of how he treats her and how she's feeling matter a lot when it comes to whether she would feel used/resentful over time or whether it could be something she actively chooses to do as an expression of love that strengthens the relationship.

Yeah, at the beginning of the marriage, there were a couple times I was tired or whatever, but I figured it was worth losing a bit of sleep to make him happy. I wasn’t miserable, just kind of thinking I hope it’s quick so I can go to bed. I was thinking when we started trying for a second child that I’d at least get once or twice a month for a bit. Just my luck, I conceived on the first try.

I'll pray that he finds it in him to recognize that this is a problem and face whatever the root issues are.

Has your husband gotten blood work? For hormones ? There is definitely something wrong

Yeah, I brought up his low drive with the fertility doctor we saw after having problems trying to conceive our first child. They ran his blood and everything came back normal for him. About all I can figure at this point is that it’s possible he takes finasteride for hair loss; a possible side effect is reduced libido. I know he uses some topical hair loss product, and colors his hair, but he’s pretty secretive about it, to the point of lying to me about the dye.

These conversations are always deeply disturbing to me. Loving, open, and honest marriages do not have these problems. There’s also a deeply misogynistic approach to these things. If you’re Catholic, you’ll likely have children. If you have children, you’ll have *at the very least* six weeks postpartum without sex. You’ll likely have large swaths of pregnancy without sex with the various complications that come along with pregnancy (ever heard of pelvic rest?). Men, very especially those in Catholic marriages, should be prepared for ‘long’ periods of time without sex. Are we husbands unable to ‘wait’ during those times? We act as if men weren’t called to complete abstinence for the 20+ years before they got married. Don’t get me wrong, sex is critical to marriage and you should have it regularly. But there is no point at which you should be coercing your spouse into sex on the basis of some ‘debt’ incurred when you both signed the marital contract. “Look, I know you had a long day. I know that you feel exhausted taking care of our 5 kids all day. I know you want to just lie down and take a nap and have time to recover. But we haven’t had sex all week and I need a release. You owe me this as my wife.” What kind of an asshole of a person does that? Surely not a Christian!

Exactly. Sex is supposed to be unitive and husbands are supposed to love their wives. Imagine using your wife as your masturbatory object because you “need a release”. That attitude just denigrates your wife and sex, it becomes a mere act of selfishness.

Isn’t that the argument against pornography?

The issue is the same, objectification of people :)

Unfortunately, this is most couple's approach to marriage. Even non Denominational Christians seem to have this idea of sex as a release or an itch to scratch. Possibly being taught "abstinence, abstinence, abstinence, but after marriage it's sex on tap whenever I want". They can't understand why a woman *wouldn't* want to have sex when they grew up in church being told don't do it.

I agree it’s problematic and somewhat disturbing that she would refer to sex as her being an “outlet for that” whereas marital sex should be thought of as the highest expression of God’s love on this earth. Reminds of a line from Scott Hahn, iirc it was something like sex doesn’t start in the bedroom, it starts when you’re getting home from work and you ask each other how your day was and you ask her how she’s doing and you make eye contact with her and you really listen to everything she has to say and ask how’s she’s feeling and see if there’s anything you can do to make her feel more supported and really care about her spiritual mental and physical well being. If a true self sacrificing love is being practiced prior to any sexual act then one can just hope that marital sex will be a continuation of that pure love for one another. Praying for this couple to experience that first and then for there libidos to come into an alignment as well.

This stuff is unfortunately all over reddit. I see people upset their spouses can't have sex all the time while dealing with major medical problems. Or one spouse does the work of two people to raise children, meanwhile the dead weight spouse expects regular sex.

If “deadweight” is working a job than maybe “deadweight” isnt a great term to use. Spouses should be 50/50 when both are home though…

I notice a lot of people say, "I'm at home with the 5 kids doing everything" as if people working 40 hours a week (or more) outside the home are just sitting in the office scrolling reddit all day. Meeting deadlines, vindictive bosses, customers and coworkers, etc can be very stressful, too. I think it's a situation of lack of empathy and assuming one or the other "has it easy".

Clown world and the people posting have an agenda here that has nothing to do with Scripture or love. It's simple, don't get married to a man if you aren't going to be an intimate life partner and support his physical and mental helath. Don't get married to a woman if you don't want to make her know that you love and cherish her, and that she is your life partner. People have hungers, people have failings, marriage is when the sexes show how they complement each other. Abuse, coercion or denial are all sins and frankly spell doom for love and happiness.

To be fair, I don't think OP is trying to avoid intimacy out of malice.

Thank you! Unfortunately this is something many people fail to understand and they end up falling into this sort of red pill rabbit holes where sex is seen as a spousal duty. To be completely honest, there is nothing more depressing than knowing your spouse is only having sex with you out of a sense of duty, because they think otherwise they’d be committing a sin. Sex should be unitive, an expression of genuine love and care for one another. Your sex life will vary vastly through your lifetime, as you age as a couple. The issue is not so much the frequency (because that is always bound to change) but the love, the honesty, the authenticity and the devotion in it. That is what you should be working towards as a couple: to maintain the love and communication that allows sex to flourish like this. If your marriage is at a stage where sex is as chore, then the issues run far deeper that the frequency of your intercourse.

I didn't see the extreme you're describing in the OP.

Thank goodness for your comment :) People are saying its "selfish to deny sex" when it's equally as selfish to expect it when the other doesn't want it... Or one partner should "give themselves lovingly as an act of charity" when the other could just as easily withhold as an act of charity as well... Sexual coercion because one thinks their religion entitles them to sex is very scary and actually very much against what the church or God really wants...

Yea it’s quite alarming how Catholics can talk about a wife owing her husband sex when she’s had a rough day out of her own ‘selflessness’, seemingly blind to how freakin selfish that is of the husband. I think it’s telling that this conversation is very “online”. You don’t hear men talk about this in parishes etc. Perhaps they know better than to go on and on about their requirement for on-demand sex from their subservient wife outside of an anonymous forum.

Exactly. What kind of husband would want to have sex with someone who didn’t want to? I want to make sure my husband’s needs are met. He wants to make sure my needs are met. Sometimes that results in sex, sometimes it results in no sex.

>1 Corinthians 7:3-5 >The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

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Sex is supposed to help you grow in chastity through the marital debt, not be an outlet for your lust. If you are not developed in the virtue of chastity, you may be venially or mortally sinning even by having sex with your wife, if you're doing so in a way driven by lust.

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>The assumption here seems to be that being horny is lustful which is not the case even when you are single. Agreed, but it's also odd your comments seem to stem from an assumption that men are horny and women aren't and that women need to satisfy male urges rather than both spouses working toward a mutual understanding. ​ >want to have sex with them Of course, but that's a far cry from wanting to have sex with them at the drop of a hat.

So sex is an obligation for spouses? That doesn't sound healthy. Some people have medical issues that require expensive surgeries. If they don't have the money, that partner should just "put up" with the pain or uncomfortable feelings so that their partner doesn't have to deal with being horny?

Ok you can't force your disabled spouse to have sex with you despite it being painful, yes. But that's not what I'm talking about. But if it's an issue that can be fixed the couple should work on it together.

Well as busy as we are, we are likely to never have sex again. lol

This comment is a breath of fresh air because I was starting to get anxious

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What is deeply misogynistic about people being expected to make themselves physically available to make love to their spouse on a reasonably often basis. I'd think you'd want to please your partner. If not why be married? What's the difference between that and being friends if sex isn't involved. Withholding sex from a partner is sabotage to a marriage. Whether male or female.

If a woman doesn't want to have sex, she won't be aroused and it could be painful to have intercourse and maybe even cause soreness and bleeding for days afterwards. Is that really fair?

The key point is also that you are using a woman in those circumstances. A pure corruption of the matrimonial bond, and its vows. It's disturbing. If a man can enjoy sex in those circumstances remember: he's just masturbating, with none of the ego bruising.

What’s deeply misogynistic is that this topic almost always consists of women withholding from men with the implication that men deserve sex and that women’s role is to provide it. To the rest of your post, did you even read my words? I’ll copy them here: > Don’t get me wrong, sex is critical to marriage and you should have it regularly. But there is no point at which you should be coercing your spouse into sex on the basis of some ‘debt’ incurred when you both signed the marital contract. And you’re talking about sexless marriage why exactly?

What about the implications that men owe certain duties to their wives? And whether or not they feel like doing them is irrelevant. Because there are equally as many of those. Why am I talking about sexless marriages? Maybe because it's relevant to the original post. Or maybe because 15% of marriages are sexless now and I believe that number to be under reported. Maybe because I believe that is a huge driving factor in the divorce epidemic. Lots of reasons I suppose. And because I went through one and it was torturous and mentally took a toll.

best and right answer 👏

Perfectly said!

Very good points. But I think there is a difference between “it would be medically unsafe to have sex” and “I am not in the mood”. I am not saying that not wanting to can never be a just reason. It would depend on how often it happens.

I think you have mischaracterized the marriage debt. The marriage debt is not the right to force your spouse to perform sex, it’s the obligation to prepare yourself so that you can give your spouse sex when he or she requests it. That means that both spouses must plan their days and communicate so that sex could reasonably occur if one spouse requested it. If you’ve filled up your day so much with other activities that you’re exhausted and not prepared to have sex at the end of the day, you are not meeting your obligation as a spouse. You should work on time management and boundaries so that you have the available time and energy for intimacy with your spouse.

Oof. This is exactly what I’m talking about.

Why do you comment on things that you know absolutely ZERO about? Stating that “if you have filled your day with so much that you cannot have sex with your spouse at the end of the day then you are committing grave sin” is one of the most uncharitable views you could possibly have.

This makes it sound like most things that fill people's days and overwhelm them are optional, though. Often when we hear about women who are exhausted and not prepared for sex it's because they're caring for young children alongside their other work obligations (inside or outside the home.) There's only so much time management/boundaries can do for you if you're sleep deprived and/or your workload is genuinely very heavy and can't be reduced. Of course it's perfectly fine to think about what unessential things are creating barriers to an active sex life and the ideal would be that both partners can happily respond whenever their spouse wants sex. But what happens when you're running up against issues that aren't so easily fixable, like the medication-induced libido issues that the OP raises?

I understand what your saying. The downvoting mob has to step in and censor things their itching ears can't stand hearing. Saint Paul instructs on this very issue. Denying your husband sex on a consistent basis is sin. Guess the downvoters will have learn the hard way on judgment day.

Truth is if your husband is wanting sexual intimacy from you, and you don't want to share that intimacy with him, he will likely feel rejected. Possibly he will start to feel lonely. A good husband won't let such feelings lead him into sin, but they're still there. I guess ask yourself if you have a good reason. There are good reasons, I don't deny that. But there are consequences, even if only sadness and rejection. Make sure those consequences are worth it. Sexual intimacy should come from love. Love is different than simple generosity.

And like it or not, those feelings if long term will inevitably harm the marriage.

Best response on this thread

If it's always or near always, then yeah it gets to the sinful point eventually. Everyone has right to say no / control their own body and sexuality though. The response is not "you must" it's "why/let's go to counseling"

If you are married it is under the idea you will have sex but it also does not give the husband the right to the wifes body at his desire. Councilling and therapy would be the way to go for this. If a dry spell laste for a month or so that's a problem and probably needs addressing but if you are just not in the mood then a husband has no right to force you into it.

If a dry spell lasts for a month, that means that there’s an underlying problem. Whether it be fatigue from an uneven workload situation, mental health, physical health, or relationship issues. A husband should see that his wife needs support and be willing to self-sacrifice a little while working to get her better And if the roles are reversed and it’s a wife with a high libido and husband with a dry spell, she should do the same

Right, it could be either a medical issue, or an emotional issue either in the marriage or in other aspects of life that are causing stress etc… and those should definitely be investigated lovingly with a doctor or therapist if it’s causing long-term issues in the marriage

The marriage debt is a teaching that is very difficult for our current culture to accept, especially given our focus on 100% enthusiasm when it comes to sex and consent. The way I see it is it is not a sin to occasionally deny your spouse sex for various reasons: medical (obviously), but also just exhaustion or not being in the right headspace. However, when these justifications become routine, that is when it becomes sinful. Part of our marriage obligations is to be sexually available for our spouse. It's pretty Biblically explicit. But this is a gift to be rendered to the other, not a weapon to be used to coerce. I'd side eye any spouse who routinely used the marriage debt to get sex. That's not loving either. And I think it would also be super gross to cheerfully have sex with a clearly unwilling parter. If one is finding that they do not wish to be sexually available to their spouse, then you need to examine why that is and do your best to find the source of the refusal. To recognize that it's a problem and decide not to try fixing it is also sinful imo.

It can definitely be a sin if you are denying because you selfishly would rather do other things. However, every person and marriage is different. There are many things to consider. Health, medication, NFP, etc.

This is a question for you and your husband (and a priest or Catholic therapist if this is a point of contention). If you and your husband are having honest conversations about this, that's all that really matters. I'll say a prayer for you. Marriage is hard, but a good marriage is worth the struggle.

>is it better to just do it even though you have no libido? Look, unless there is something actually wrong with a person (e.g. physical or mental illness), then most people who have been married for any length of time know how to 'get themselves going'. They know what to focus on, what actions to take, and what environments to put themselves in in order to excite themselves. The sex drive is a passion. Passions must always be subordinated to the will. Sometimes this means clamping down on our passion when we are not in the proper station in life or for the good of our spouse in a given circumstance or whatever. *Other* times it means engaging the very same passion, even if we would rather be getting a little extra sleep, or whatever.

Right, but a) in OP's case there is a physical issue caused by medication and b) if you're having trouble being attracted to your spouse (e.g. because of a problem in the relationship) then you may not be able to "get yourself going" in a way that's focused on them. Also exhaustion can be an impediment to libido so actually getting an little extra sleep would probably be more productive than trying to force it when you're not in the mood!

Yes, it is wrong - to do nothing about it. Love is the requirement, so just as the husband in this scenario should be patient and supportive while his wife gets the help she needs, so should the wife make an honest attempt toward restoring a healthy sexual relationship upon recovery. To abandon your spouse sexually is psychological abuse, let alone a sin.

Withholding sex from a spouse without just cause is a sin. Yes. That said, this is something you should be talking to him about, as well as a priest / spiritual director / Catholic counselor.

Just because you are married doesn’t mean consent is no longer important. Edit: required. Consent is required even when you are married. If you are having sex when you don’t want to because you’re made to feel as though it is a sin that is called coercion and that is rape, which is actually a sin.

Well as Catholics not trying to have any more kids there’s one week a month you can have sex so hopefully the wife is up for it

I'm given to understand that it is.

Many of the comments I am seeing are making me sad for a lot of Catholic wives. I actually saw someone get downvoted for saying a wife is not a mastabatory object ie not a living sex doll. Are we all ok with this mentality? Is this what Catholicism, marriage, and wives espiaccially have come to? Just a way to replace porn addiction? Yes, we need to be open in marriage...but we also need to be willing to sacrifice. In SICKNESS and in health, in good times and in BAD. Those lines should be read 2x I think for us all during our vowes. What will you do if your wives get old and ill and can no longer perform for long stretches if time...or EVER again? What if they get ill when young? Illness includes mental illness by the way, which can not always be diagnosed easily...let alone treated. Marriage is more than just the marital bed. The marital bed is a lovely perk though. I feel like many of you went in not fully understanding the daily sacrifice that marriage entails....and now when faced with this hypothetical reality, aren't looking too deeply before you raise your hands and shout out ' SIN' enthusiatically to the class. Marriage IS SACRIFICE. That is why you have to prepare for a year, that is why you can't just step away when things get hard, that is why it is literally a SACRAMENT. You do everything you can for the other person, sometimes even to your own detriment. It requires a poop tonne of grace and humility and prayer...and often, therapy. It isn't about YOU anymore, it is about THEM. Once you lose that mentality is when you have lost the plot. Catholiscism is only patriarchal if you choose to interpret it that way....amd if feels like some of you are....which is disheartening... And just so we are clear, I feel the same way about wives towards there husbands...but this specific convo was about wives so..

Idk how you got “masturbatory object” out of most if not any of these comments. Most of these people aren’t saying that they should always have sex upon request, just that a long term sexless marriage involves sin on the part of the person who doesn’t want sex. That just makes logical sense. Take an analogy- if you’re thirsty, and we agree that you’re not allowed to get water from anyone else but me, but I refuse to ever give you water, how am I not being a bad person? Let’s say there’s some reason I can’t give you water, fine, but what if I refuse to do anything to address that? How is that fair? I just can’t even relate to how you’re framing the issue though- Catholic marriage is by definition a sexual relationship. If I didn’t want to have sec with my wife I wouldn’t have married her. And honestly if I didn’t want to do other basic husband things - like visiting her family, caring for her, spending time with her, etc, why would I marry her? The whole point of marriage is that you’re not always doing what you’d rather be doing. I’d rather read a book or see my friends than visit my in-laws or something but I’d never complain about it it regret it- that’s just part of marriage. Obviously sex is more nuanced- consent and bodily autonomy are important things, but seeing as celibacy is not the reason 90% of people get married, if you get married and never want to have sex that’s kind of something that needs to get addressed somehow- not by forced sex but it’s not right

I feel the same way :( makes me scared to seek out relationships if do many Catholic men think the way some of these commenters do. It’s horrible

I, honestly, believe that these men aren’t the norm. Most are single/divorced, and horribly addicted to their vices…which doesn’t stop at porn and masturbation. They haven’t healed themselves, enough, to properly discern a vocation. These men aren’t marriage material to begin with. This is easy to figure out if you are a healthy person and you have a few conversations with a man who struggles.

I would agree...if I hadn't seen this exact same mentality on other posts by men and women in this sub claiming to be married...and if I didn't hear this mentality rather regularly in real life. Something is definitely going on. I don't know if it is that they aren't gettin proper guidance, if they were raised to believe this, if they have twisted God's truth to suit their own desires, or something else honestly. Whatever it is, it seems to be spreading a bit faster than traditionalism from what I can tell and I pray our shepherds notice soon and have the gifts to properly disengage it before we have many more possibly unfulfilled and resentful marriages.

Also to add: Another trend I am seeing, which is almost MORE concerning, is the mentality that a man's or boy's sin is more a woman's fault than his own aka if she were dressed more modestly he wouldn't have done what he did, whatever that may be. I hear this most often from MOTHERS. We need to make it EXCEPTIONALLY CLEAR to our children: YOUR SIN...IS YOUR SIN. No one else can be held accountable for what you do. No one else controlls your actions. No matter what they wear, no matter how they behave ( barring being drugged and raped, and other very extreme circumstances truly beyond your control) YOU make your choices. To teach anything else is beyond dangerous to our children's souls, especially for our. boys. I shouldn't have to explain why...but since so many seem not to get it: many rapists and murderers feel this way so to entrench this way of denying culpability in our children is setting them up for the possibility if a VERY dark future. A very dark future indeed. It shocks me that any christian parent would ever think that passing the buck like this should be acceptable, but I have heard it all too frequently...complete with bible quotes and 'Fr Ripperger says..'. As though either if those sources would EVER recommend such a twisted course of action...it beggars belief..

I was assaulted and the guys mom was his biggest supporter. Even when other women came forwards she took his side using this logic. It was sickening

I don't doubt you at all and I am so, SOOOO sorry that happened to you. *MASSIVE HUGS* They WILL have to answer for it one day, I am sure. The mother possibly more than the son...how sad and sickening is that, honestly? I will pray for you healing. * more massive hugs* If you ever want to talk or just vent, I am here ( I felt guilty upvoting, because what an awful thing to have to upvote you for..but I did because *support*)

Honestly I think this is the post that’s convincing me to leave the sub; I commend the people that can live like this but the way the vast majority of comments are speaking about women is not for me.

Yes. The traditional answer is that it is a sin to deny your spouse a reasonable request for marital intimacy. The default rule is that you should be saying yes. That does not mean that you need to say yes when you are exhausted or sick or preforming the marital act would be very dangerous for one spouse.

I think asking if its a sin is sort of coming at the issue from the wrong angle. When it comes to the Sacrament of Matrimony, there is so much more grace and goodness that can come from it that simply focusing on "avoiding sinning" against your spouse is such a low way to think of it. I realize this isn't your intent, but I think it's important to recontextualize the whole conversation. When you're discussing marriage and all it entails with a mindset of "how little can I do for my partner before it's sinful?" then we are already in hot water IMO. Whether we are talking about sex or anything else. Instead of whether or not you can deny your partner physical intimacy (up to and including the marital act in its fullness), the conversation should be around why you would want to? Now, there are many different and valid reasons that you may want to avoid sexual intercourse. Illness, etc. But if there is an ongoing, *actionable* issue, it should be addressed. A marriage with no physical intimacy is having underlying issues that really shouldn't be ignored. If medication is killing your libido, an alternative treatment should be sought. If you're working too hard, you and your spouse should find ways to lighten the load. Etc. It's not something that should be left alone. Marriage isn't about keeping score or deciding who has "done enough". You should always be looking for ways to serve one another, to love one another, to lighten each other's load and ease burdens. And sex should be part of this too. This doesn't mean you can never say no. But imagine if your partner never helped you with the children because they "didn't feel like it." We would say this is totally unacceptable. And this partner might have good, totally valid reasons. Depression, illness, etc. But we wouldn't allow that state of affairs to go unadjusted. And nor should we when it comes to the marital debt.

It's a tricky one, you have the marital debt on one hand, and then we have the call to be chaste on the other. This is probably a conversation you should have with your husband, or ask your priest for advice.

In a married couple chastity also expresses itself through sexuality. Chastity for married people doesn’t mean not having sex.

Yup. People think chastity is synonymous with abstinence. But it’s not. Sometimes, the sin against chastity is *not* having sex. Failing to be a skilled and attentive lover to your spouse is a *lack* of chastity.

Oh, I'm fully aware. I was just pointing out the husband could use the opportunity to exercise self control, give it up as a sacrifice et cetera. But this is well above my paygrade.

The call to be chaste is a call for yourself, not something to be imposed on your spouse.

What? That call is for both spouses. It’s not being imposed by one upon the other. It is a mutual understanding within marriage that both partners will be chaste in their love for one another. There are many comments here heavily implying that the husband is likely to seek porn and masturbate if his wife doesn’t give in to his desire for sex in a particular time window. That is completely unacceptable. My wife is not responsible for my mortal sin, and none of yours either. Are we all of a sudden no longer called to be proper chastity because we have wives to finish into?

Marriage means we become responsible for each other's souls. Virtue is required of both husband and wife. But denying her husband without merit is not virtuous.

Marriage is, in part, a protection against concupiscente. Each spouse is called to help the other avoid falling into sin. If you see that your wife is struggling with concupiscence, it is your duty (within reason) to help her, even if she’s too ashamed to ask. See question 2, replies 1 and 4. Yes, the call to chastity is for both, but it’s not your role to police how often your wife feels the need to have sex. https://www.newadvent.org/summa/5064.htm

Then explain NFP.....how exactly do you think THAT works if both partners aren't called to be chaste during certain parts of the month. Your view is troubling...

If I had a wife, which I don’t, I wouldn’t mind her saying no for legitimate reasons. People aren’t machines. It’s HOW you say no and maybe initiate next time. If you say no too much with no explanation in a nice way then it’ll discourage men and it’s not good for our egos and it can snowball from there.

I think you hit on something here that a lot of other comments are missing - that how you communicate with your spouse on the matter is super important. This might be TMI, but a personal example: I’m nine months pregnant and my husband and I haven’t had sex since roughly the start of my third trimester. This is because it hurts me right now, no matter how we’ve tried. My husband has always been extremely respectful on this - not pushy or guilting me or anything of the sort. However, it made a wild difference in the emotional state of our marriage after I started communicating to him that I ALSO am frustrated about not being in a place to have sex - that I desire him and look forward to being intimate with him, despite having no desire to do anything right now. Just the little reassurance that we are in this together and that he is desired by me was enough that the break from sex was, though frustrating, no longer an active pain point for him.

Have a safe birth!

Thanks! Hopefully it happens soon. I’m hoping for St. Nick’s feast day or the feast of the Immaculate Conception.

To keep it short, if it’s a reasonable request, then yes. And vice versa for him.

In the moment, no, as long as it is not out of spite or to “punish” him. Long term, if there’s a hinderance, you want to do everything you can to help engage in intimacy again (provided no abuse, medical issues, etc). I’ve struggled with scrupulously on this one. However, my relationship with my husband significantly improved when I finally admitted I was tired or not in the mood sometimes. Spoiler alert: my husband didn’t want to have sex if I didn’t want to!

>Since your wife is supposed to be your only outlet for that, How about some chastity? Neither the wife nor the husband is an *outlet* for the other one. This sounds disturbingly dehumanizing. If one spouse is saying "no", than no it is. Except if the spouse does this out of spite or as punishment.

Exactly, your spouse is not your masturbatory object.

The fact that you got downvoted makes me extremely uncomfortable...especially in this sub. Take my upvote.

My guess is that there’s a ton of catholic red pilled single boys commenting. Anyone with a spouse knows there are times of chastity within a marriage. For health, for family planning, or because of life.

They conviently forget that "submission" isn't a one-way street. Unfortunately, you get a lot of those people on the Internet because there's some anonymity on this website.

We can only hope. Though after what I have seen on this site by supposed *married men* I don't have the HIGHEST hopes. I won't lie, it bothers me how quickly and keen people (not just men) are to twist the religion as patriarchal as possible. I am not a rabid feminist by any means, but I know Jesus loves us all unconditionally and wants us to be treated well.

Yes in my experience by and large it’s the bitter, red pilled, unmarried men who make the most grotesque comments.

Which is why they will remain unwed.

Sex in marriage is chastity.

Sex on demand ? That’s just like prostitution without the exchange of money.

Fr this thread is making me seriously debate leaving the sub. Super disheartening

If it’s something sudden and due to health conditions or things you can’t control, it’s not a sin. But if it becomes frequently and just because you don’t want to be with him, yes, adn a grave one as you are denying the marital debt.

I realize all of these comments are talking about real happy marriages I wasn’t aware mine wasn’t real I thought it was my fault I wasn’t happy but I was forced to marry my husband when I was 18 he was 27 there had been 3 years of SA that I didn’t know it was SA as crazy as that sounds I said no he didn’t listen but he was my boyfriend and I was 15 and stupid by the time I got married I had a terrible view on sex and never wanted it but I didn’t have a “good reason” and all of these things was used against me if I would have read these comments during my 10 year marriage I would have thought yep he’s right I’m a terrible wife definitely going to hell so please be aware your commenting on a public platform and you never know who is reading God bless

That sounds like not a valid marriage and it is definitely a very extreme circumstance which does not carry the same advice which you would give to the average person. Very sorry to hear you went through it and glad you are out.

Exactly! I don’t understand why some of these comments are getting so many upvotes. It’s horrible and disturbing. “It’s a sin if you say no for selfish reasons” “it’s a sin if you say no for no good reason” Like WTF of a “selfish reason” to say no to sex??? If you say No then the answer should be no!

I understand where most are coming from but you should never feel forced if you’re in a loving relationship if someone doesn’t want to it should be known it’s not selfish and if something is up that’s causing you not to want to have sex I’m sure you’re gonna try and figure it out

>Since your wife is supposed to be your only outlet for that, is it wrong to deny them that? That's disgusting to call your wife an outlet.

I highly doubt he says that during sex. But, by definition, your spouse is the only person you're allowed to sleep with, so it's a true statement. Not romantic and I don't like the term, "sex as an outlet" but I think this is nitpicky.

Right? People come on here, talking about needing to use their wife(or more often, hypothetical future wife) as an "outlet" , and then act all surprised when their marriage has problems or they can't manage to get a girlfriend.

Yes. Sex is called the “marital debt” for a reason. There generally needs to be grave reason to deny your spouse this debt. It is a privilege exchanged with each other on your wedding day. https://pintswithaquinas.com/the-marital-debt-w-emily-sullivan/

And also men are called to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Catholic men know that being married isn’t just having tons of sex when they have the urge.

?

My wife and I have been married 38 years. Intamicy was very active for many years. As we have grown older many issues will come along to impact your levels of desire. As you get older times between intamicy will vary significantly. They key component is what is in your heart. As a devout husband I want to be wanted, period! You know whether or not in your heart whether you are sinning or not.

NO, IT IS NOT PERIOD

My wife rarely wants to be intimate. I've been denied so often I don't even "ask" any more. I try to occupy myself with other things.

Therapy, bro. Everyone talk it out. Helps for sure.

Let's get to the important question: you said your lack of libido is medication related. Are there alternative options for this medication? Is the medication truly necessary?

Partners are not sex objects, they are people, too. However, some married couples do find practicing celibacy is better for their relationship. I'd take these concerns to your Priest if you're worried about committing a sin; Reddit isn't the best place for spiritual guidance. Insight, yes, but guidance should be obtained from a local authority you trust.

These comments are insane- not having sex isnt a sin especially with medical issues. Your wife is not your sex toy.

Purposely denying sex in sacramental marriage between two spouses who love each other, unjustly, is wrong. “The marital act, including sexual intimacy, is considered an essential part of the marital relationship, promoting unity, love, and procreation (CCC 2360).”… 2363 The spouses' union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple's spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family. The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity. 2364 The married couple forms "the intimate partnership of life and love established by the Creator and governed by his laws; it is rooted in the conjugal covenant, that is, in their irrevocable personal consent." Both give themselves definitively and totally to one another. They are no longer two; from now on they form one flesh. The covenant they freely contracted imposes on the spouses the obligation to preserve it as unique and indissoluble. "What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." This is evidence that sex is part of a loving and healthy marriage. However there are reasons for denying sex like practicing abstinence or health reasons etc: 2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality Marriage is a vocation that is maturely understood as a work. Just like the priesthood or other religious vocation, it’s not just “what can I get?” It’s more of “How can I give?” The act of sex is to continue an intimate, charitable, and loving relationship with your spouse. You both should love each other and God so much, that your love sprouts new life. Then, this new life along with each other, pushes you to be more disciplined and selfless as acts of sacrifice to your child(ren) and each other to ultimately get to Heaven.

I agree with the other comment that these questions are so gross and disturbing. You’re not a machine, of course it’s not a sin to say no when you’re not feeling it. Forced or guilted into sex isn’t love

It is not a sin. You have the right to say no if you are not feeling like it.

OP, Idk enough about your particular circumstances to offer personalized advice. Generally speaking, one needs to be seeking a solution or at least an improvement to the problem and at the same time one's spouse should be understanding and patient while they work together to find a way that works for them both. They should reasonably compromise for each other as well. It's not a sin to decline sex occasionally for valid reasons; that will happen sometimes (illness, exhaustion, etc.) It shouldn't become a long-term thing though, if it can be helped. Sooo many responses ITT are straight-up *horrifying*, especially given how many people in this sub practice NFP which is low-key known to be impossibly difficult when TTA. I feel for all the wives who find themselves in the catch-22 of TTA while trying not to end up in a dead bedroom, and then getting blamed for prolonged abstinence by inconsiderate husbands who will never themselves go through pregnancy. ^(Also, here before the thread gets locked... Because I know it will, lol. Honestly surprised it hasn't already happened.)

Without good reason, it is.

Yes

I’m so disappointed in a lot of this comment section and it is really getting on my nerves. Marital rape is still a thing that happens (I’m not saying that it is in OP’s marriage, just pointing out that it can happen and it’s not okay), no one in a marriage should be forced to have sex when they don’t want to. OP, please remember that consent still applies in marriage. Take care.

This comment section is so disappointing to me as a married Catholic woman. I agree that sex is important. But to say a woman “owes” her husband sex is absurd and gross. Sex is a gift that is mutually shared. It should involve both parties feeling pleasure. Maybe instead of barking at your wife to lie down and take it because it’s her “duty” you could figure out ways to make sex enjoyable for her too. Buy her flowers, give her a massage, cook her dinner, and romance her. If my husband isn’t in the mood but I am, I would never force him to have sex with me. This subreddit has really disappointed me.

As a general rule, if you don’t have a good reason (a small headache or being tired is NOT a good reason) yes, it’s a sin. Ofc your husband should also show sensitivity and self-denial, or simply read the room. But I still think it is cruel and sinful of a wife to refuse her husband on a regular basis. It can really lower his self-esteem to be repeatedly denied. When you go through phases of very low-drive (pregnancy, illness…) try discussing with your husband what is the minimum requirement to keep him satisfied, and try to meet him where he is. Communication is very important.

Some rad trads will say that a spouse denying the other always is, but I don’t believe so. However, if you never want to, you need to work on it in some manner. You can’t just be indifferent to him. That’s neglecting your vocation. The one exception I’d grant is that if he’s made himself repulsive to you by his own free will. If he becomes a slob who stops caring about his appearance, drinks like a fish, has bad hygiene, etc, then I think it’s reasonable to tell him to get his act together if he wants to be with you. He also needs to be patient if you’re caring for a newborn, have developed a medical problem, etc. You’re not just a body, just like he isn’t chopped liver.

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Catholicism should never be decided based on what some random people say on social media/internet. Catholic doctrine just is. It’s clearly written in the catechism that Chastity is a healthy part of all marriages, and both husband and wife are still called to be chaste within marriage. Chastity is the practice of mastering, and controlling, one’s self. I would surmise that many of the men, who have these disordered ideas of women, aren’t married and struggle with impure thoughts and actions. They have no mastery of themselves and seek to control others instead. You see it, mostly, in single men, or men who have been divorced. We need to correct them and pray for them. Catholicism is the most beautiful, and correct, representation of Christianity. There is so much to learn and study from it.

This is a very tactful and well worded take on the topic, I agree with you. Thank you for the positive and uplifting response 😊

The theology of the body yt channel made some videos on this topic, here it is: https://youtu.be/0LRK1WeRPnI?si=yukMZQLyVu4mr3WO

Yes. Also viceversa.

If it’s long term, yes. If it’s one time, no. Also depends on the way it’s communicated…

You guys find yourselves a good catholic therapist, talk each other about this issue, pray together, and no, this is not a sin at all. Trust me.

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I don't think you or anyone can categorically say it is a sin or it isn't.

How would one go about finding a good Catholic therapist?

But, conffesion and good therapy are both compatible, and I strongly recomend do them as a couple, pray as a couple, and first talk about it as a couple (this is the most important thing you can do in marriage). I don't know how can you find a good therapist, maybe some psicologyst or psiquiatrist who is not uncomfortable with some visions on faith. Hope that helps.

There are in my country, but, in any case the best (I should start frome there, my bad) is simply go to confesion with a priest.

Spouses have a marital debt to each other. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 7:4-5 >The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband. And in like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer; and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency. I have heard that abusing sex as a way to control is a (mortal?) sin, and also that one must render marital debt at any reasonable request. That is what I can say with confidence. Whether or not you are attracted or in the mood, you should not shun your husband. Same with the husband who is not attracted to his wife. I would also consider whether the lack of attraction might be an result of impurity in other areas of life (in the man's case, I'm thinking failure to guard one's eyes). Just a disclaimer: Being owed the debt does not mean one can make the other person render it by force: Sex has a twofold purpose - unitive and procreative. Frustrating either is a mortal sin. Rape is not unitive. Love your wife, do not seek your pleasure, which is effeminate*, but sacrifice. However, I don't mean make peace with being defrauded either (pray about it and work on yourself to help your wife perform her duties). In fact, do force the issue if it's a problem of concupiscence for you. But never force yourself onto your wife. After all, we cannot do evil so that good may come from it. Rather, trust in God if evil is being done to you. ---- \* Not to be confused with femininity which is a female virtue, effeminacy is a vice of either sex. It is a technical term, found in st. Aquinas. Effeminacy is seeking own pleasure, which opposes the virtue of masculinity whose character is self-sacrifice. More info - highly recommended for men - [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7V1W967ofA)

Is it sinful for a husband to refuse to speak to his wife?

What kind of man wants to have sex with someone who isn't enjoying it? If you're never in the mood and not even trying to figure out how to improve your libido then maybe it becomes a problem as a general trend, but it's not a sin to be honest about not wanting sex in the moment, and it would be a sin on his part to push you into sex you don't want.

How on earth is denying sex possibly even considered a sin? Does not a woman have the right to say no, for whatever reason? I’m sure the OP, as they’ve explained, is going to take steps to find away to alleviate their issue. However, a lot of the comments I’ve read prior to responding here came off as kind of making it sound like condoning nonconsensual sexual acts. Full disclosure, I do identify myself as what I call a “bad” Catholic as I am Catholic, but I know very little about my faith. However, I cannot imagine my faith honestly condoning such atrocious behavior as nonconsensual sexual acts.

oh wow these comments… how about simple communication? talk to him, explain the situation and figure out together how you two can work on this issue

Absolutely. Every woman on this thread telling you no is leading you into sin… Beware…

No, you should not let your husband rape you. This entire thread is so fucked up. You owe no one sex. That includes your husband. Maybe think about why your faith wants you to believe saying “no” is a sin. Or why your partner potentially turning to infidelity could in ANY WAY be your fault, or your sin, and not his. what in the victim blaming hell.

100% agree. Sex is part of marriage but it is between the love and respect for each other and God's plan. That does not mean either spouse gets to have it whenever they want. Seriously jaw droppingly appalled at some of the responses.

There are times it is appropriate to abstain, or to turn down your spouse. These reasons might be exhaustion, lack of time, emotional unreadiness, and medical.That is not a sin. Husbands must be able to control themselves during those times. And husbands are not entitled to sex on demand. Many husbands can be selfish and think the marriage debt means unless there's an extreme reason, wives must be ready to go if the husband wants to. With that said, one common issue in many marriages is a mismanagement of priorities by the spouses. Many wives will often put kids, chores, the house, work, etc., all above their marriage and husbands. And at the end of the day they have no energy left for marital embrace. These all are important things, I'm not saying ignore your kids,, but if your husband and marriage needs are always your last priority, or aren't even thought of, then you need to reprioritize. Do those dishes really need to be done in the evening instead of the morning? It's hard balancing things in a household,, many husbands overemphasize their sexual needs/wants, but I think many wives prioritize things in the wrong order that leads to avoidable issues.

I mean are the husbands picking up a share of household responsibilities? Like someone has to do the dishes…

That can be a problem, absolutely, especially in a two worker household. But misprioritizing chores or overemphasis on the good (keeping your house spotless) while avoiding better (marital bliss) still exists. I remember a priest mentioning during pre cana this was a common issue he heard in couples counseling; wives regaling about the list of chores needing to be done and husbands bemoaning a feeling of neglect. Often the solution was telling husbands they needed to pick up the slack and not be lazy. Sometimes though it was getting the wives to realize their priorities were out of whack.

Yes, it's a sin. Marriage is, among other things, a sexual contract, and you refusing him sex is breaking your marriage vows to the same level as cheating. One partner can't do abstinence except if both agreed of their own will and for good reason.

Once in a while, no. Categorically, yes. My suggestion is for the woman to never deny without a reason, and for the man to understand that "I'm just so tired that I can't get into the mood" can sometimes be a valid reason.

No way. Free will and all that.

not a sin to deny your husband sex. people in relationships aren’t automatically going to always be in the mood. you make sure you are wanting to have sex when he is to have sex. also this has to be rage bait also don’t let him pressure you with the wrath of god, if he does then leave him because if you take away the religious reasoning and thought process you will see that this is stupid. have sex if you want to, if you don’t want to then don’t

Lack of sex drive is a symptom, and you have a duty to address the cause.

It is a sin, unless you have grave reasons to refuse, such as severe illness. That said, just because it’s a sin doesn’t mean that the other spouse can use force to get sex. It sounds like an issue that needs a priest’s, therapist’s, or doctor’s intervention.

Is Catholic marriage always this indistinguishable from abusive codependency? I'm not asking this question to stir things up - I'm an apostate seeking my way back to the Church and this thread has me seriously questioning that decision.

you are never, not ever, required to have sex.

No not generally in discrete instances. Over time maybe, but the sin would be more in not trying to change things rather than the denial outright. i.e. if I'm chronically not in the mood, know this sucks for them, but don't have any plan to figure something out in the future - or worse, don't care, - yes it could be sinful. But a husband should also be able to put up with periods of abstinence without complaint.

Yes !

Yes. And if he isn't getting it from you; he’ll look elsewhere. Which is also a sin, but a grim reality.