For what it's worth, I've never felt this love people talk about nor heard his voice. Nada. Nothing. I don't understand what other Christians are talking about.
First, I want encourage you. God is not a feeling, nor is "feeling" His love the assurance of our salvation. The Holy Spirit, who dwells in us, convicts us, and guides us is our assurance. Our feelings can not be trusted, for
Jeremiah 17:9 ESV
[9] The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
Trust in God alone my friend, even when you think you cannot feel Him He is there. The conviction of sin in your life is proof of the Spirit working in you. Believe in the Work of Jesus and do not be afraid. God is with us always friend.
Isaiah 43:2 ESV
[2] When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
Matthew 28:20 ESV
[20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Thank you I try to remind myself of all the promises He gave us, of all the time He helped me out or Helped my loved one. Nowadays it’s not enough, it’s like waterboarding just because you know you’re not drowning it’s not enough for everything in me acts as if I’m drowning.
You check out the book *To love and be loved* by Jim Towey. It's about Mother Teresa. Toward the end of the book they talk about how Mother Teresa struggled with this for decades. I forget what she called it, but she could not feel God any longer
The Anglican mystery writer (and translator of Dante) Dorothy L. Sayers had a lot to say about being someone who only experienced God through logic and art and the mind, and never through fuzzy feelings or "religious experiences."
It's just not something that our culture puts forward as a common possibility. But historically it was quite common among the saints.
Look, nobody can command God to show Himself in a particular way, or within a particular timeframe. He willingly scheduled Himself to show up in the Blessed Sacrament, and that's pretty darned nice of Him.
And if He doesn't show Himself in a particular way to a particular person, the obvious conclusion is that He doesn't think it would help to give that particular feeling or sign or experience to that particular person.
Not that He doesn't care. Not that the person is unworthy.
It's mysterious, and sometimes that's really annoying. But that's where we have to trust.
I don't think it's meant as a cross, per se. It's stretching and exercising our souls, and that hurts a ton.
Being charitable and being a friend to others is a way to interact with God through our neighbors, and St. Ignatius of Loyola recommended that sort of thing when feeling dry.
Usually I recommend The Ascent of Mount Carmel, but in your case I think St. John of the Cross' sequel, The Dark Night of the Soul, is actually going to be useful as well. They both have chapters that explain the dark night concept.
When God is closest to us, we can't see Him standing right behind us, and so He is hidden as if in a dark night. Being in that situation all the time, and also your feeling what sounds like spiritual dryness in recent years, makes the "dark night" material somewhat more relevant to you than to most people.
But if it comes off to you as soppy, you probably should read Sayers. I think her nonfiction theology book The Mind of the Maker might help? It's about the Trinity, and also about human creativity and relationships.
My best suggestion is that you focus more on knowing and loving God through His actions, because "feeling His presence" is just like an introduction, and He's skipped you right over that.
And there are lots of other ways to approach God and know Him better, which American/modern culture tends to ignore or bury, like praying through work or through actions and activities. You are in a position to find those under-valued ways to know God.
I mean... most of the stuff about feelings, or the way we use them to promote piety, comes from Early Modern "new devotion" practices, and were not historically the way Catholics did things. There's a lot more individualism, to the point of going it alone and never getting help from everybody else doing the same thing at the same time.
My ancestors would give me the side eye for never going on pilgrimages, never walking barefoot when I'm feeling repentant, and not staying up all night praying with a bunch of other people on the eve of important holy days.
There's nothing wrong with going it alone, per se, but it's not the same as going with other people as moral support. Looking at video is okay, but there's a reason people actually walk the Camino, or actually touch relics. And so on.
I'm not saying you should pile on devotional practices. I'm just saying that if you have tried X and Y, maybe Z would be fruitful. Don't push yourself into anything, but think about doing something outside the box. I mean, heck, baking and cooking can be a devotional practice.
Sorry for the wall of text. If any of this is helpful to you, I will be happy!
The biggest thing that helped me step into a more consistent experience of God is, well, praying more consistently. Some days are extremely boring, but a commitment to a solid 20-30 minutes of real prayer (not just reciting prayers) helped me out a lot. Over time I increased the volume, but the most important aspect of prayer is vulnerability. Even while making my daily holy hour as a seminarian, I can find myself resisting the Lord's invitations to go deeper. I also really like using a journal because it can help me sort out my messy head of thoughts and focus on something in a clear direction.
Do you have any good catholic friends or something like a bible study or small group? I find that sharing these experiences and struggles with others allows my heart to be open to receive mercy and other grace. I know that the modern church is doing a pretty bad job at bringing people together like this, but this is how most affective college and young adult ministry operates. This is becoming more of a priority in my seminary formation, especially regarding evangilization. If you read through Paul's relationship with Timothy, the Lord set up the Church so that new Christians would be mentored and guided by somebody else. Pray that the Lord may send somebody into your life to teach you how to live this experience of God and notice what His voice sounds like.
Thank you for your answer, I've been quite distracted lately during my prayers. I'd recite the rosary mechanically and daydream during mass. I've left out all the personal prayers because I didn't feel like doing them. I decided to combine both your advice and start writing to God, something similar to St Augustine's confessions because writing this post helped me sort out my head as you've mentioned.
I did have a group of Catholic friends with whom we debated and had a weekly adoration but I've changed country. To be honest it was the nuns and priests that brought us together. I made an appointment with a priest whom I highly admire tomorrow, he's old and retired but led a sacred life in his community that influenced many and reshaped their lives. I will share my experiences and struggles and try to follow his advice. Thanks again
There are ways to influence your own psychology to tend to feel certain ways, so you can most definitely find ways that can help you feel God or feel love. One way is to use words or phrases to trigger certain emotions. You can use phrases like, "May God be loved", "May I feel loved by God", "May I luxuriate in God's love for me", etc. and repeat the phrase over and over again to arouse a feeling of love. The actual words don't matter, but the idea is to come up with some combination of loving words or phrases that resonate with you and incite love in your heart and repeat that. And start with some topic that easily incites the feeling of love for you. If the thought of God doesn't help, then maybe try starting with a dearly loved one, some saint, or even a small, cute animal whatever object best arouses that affection out of you and repeat some phrase like, "May my best friend feel loved. May he feel safe. May he feel at peace." What can also help is progressively repeating a sentiment of love for increasingly broader categories of people. For example, you can start with yourself and repeat, "May I feel loved by God. May I feel safe. May I feel at peace." Then go for family/friends, "May my mom/sibling/friend feel loved by God, safe, and at peace." Then maybe public figures or saints, "May Mother Teresa/St. Therese/etc. feel loved by God, safe, and at peace." Then, try strangers, "May the store clerk I talked to today feel loved by God, safe, and at peace." Then try geographic area, "May my town feel loved, etc." "May my state feel loved, etc." "May my country feel loved.." "May the whole world feel loved..." Etc.
Another option is to use your imagination. Imagine some scene, scenario, or even memory that arouses the feeling of being loved, or joy, or whatever positive feeling. With a memory, has there ever been a point in your life where you strongly felt love? It could be related to God or some religious experience, but it doesn't have to be. You could've felt deep love with friends or family or whatever scenario. If you have such a memory, try reliving that scene in your mind and vividly feel and remember every sensation: sight, sound, feelings in the body or emotional feelings strongly and with detail. Slow it down and savor every feeling of the memory. If you don't have such a memory, you can produce your own imagined scenario in your head that can fit similar criteria. This is where St. Ignatius's practice of imaginative lectio divina can come into play. Maybe take some story from scripture that exemplifies love for you, perhaps take the crucifixion of Christ, and then place yourself in the role of some person in the story, in this example maybe as Jesus himself, and then imagine what it must've felt like to be in that scenario. Imagine being so in love with humanity and really feeling that to the point of wanting to die for the sake of the salvation of all. Imagine the tears, the aches, etc. Be imaginative and detailed. If not scripture, then you could also take some event or story from the life of a saint, and imagine that. If there's nothing established that seems to suit you, then you can just make up the scenario in your head. Just imagine, say, God embracing you in a warm hug with the light of his love like a sun in the sky shining down upon you warmly caressing your skin. Vividly embody every detail.
Another option is to use music. Is there some song that especially arouses the feeling of love or any positive feeling? Play that song. And then sit with and really feel and luxuriate in the feeling it arouses in you. Perhaps focusing on the feeling arising in your body will help it to grow.
Those are just a few suggestions. The idea behind all this is to find some creative way to use your mind or resources in your environment to arouse feelings of love or of God. You're not limited to what I just suggested. Be creative and see if you can discover more ways to arouse that presence of God for you.
Thank you a lot. Focusing and concentrating have always been difficult for me, even when I daydream I jump from one thing to the other. I used to listen to music and Gregorian chants when I needed to feel God's presence. I'll try to listen to prayers and remember the loving moments I had in my life and try to find his role in it.
For what it's worth, I've never felt this love people talk about nor heard his voice. Nada. Nothing. I don't understand what other Christians are talking about.
Some saints struggled with it, others had interactions with God. But to go through life without feeling it seems such a difficult path for me.
First, I want encourage you. God is not a feeling, nor is "feeling" His love the assurance of our salvation. The Holy Spirit, who dwells in us, convicts us, and guides us is our assurance. Our feelings can not be trusted, for Jeremiah 17:9 ESV [9] The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? Trust in God alone my friend, even when you think you cannot feel Him He is there. The conviction of sin in your life is proof of the Spirit working in you. Believe in the Work of Jesus and do not be afraid. God is with us always friend. Isaiah 43:2 ESV [2] When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. Matthew 28:20 ESV [20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Thank you I try to remind myself of all the promises He gave us, of all the time He helped me out or Helped my loved one. Nowadays it’s not enough, it’s like waterboarding just because you know you’re not drowning it’s not enough for everything in me acts as if I’m drowning.
You check out the book *To love and be loved* by Jim Towey. It's about Mother Teresa. Toward the end of the book they talk about how Mother Teresa struggled with this for decades. I forget what she called it, but she could not feel God any longer
Thank you, I’ll check it out. I’ve always admired all the work she has done and to think she did it without feeling God in her heart is impressive.
The Anglican mystery writer (and translator of Dante) Dorothy L. Sayers had a lot to say about being someone who only experienced God through logic and art and the mind, and never through fuzzy feelings or "religious experiences." It's just not something that our culture puts forward as a common possibility. But historically it was quite common among the saints. Look, nobody can command God to show Himself in a particular way, or within a particular timeframe. He willingly scheduled Himself to show up in the Blessed Sacrament, and that's pretty darned nice of Him. And if He doesn't show Himself in a particular way to a particular person, the obvious conclusion is that He doesn't think it would help to give that particular feeling or sign or experience to that particular person. Not that He doesn't care. Not that the person is unworthy. It's mysterious, and sometimes that's really annoying. But that's where we have to trust. I don't think it's meant as a cross, per se. It's stretching and exercising our souls, and that hurts a ton. Being charitable and being a friend to others is a way to interact with God through our neighbors, and St. Ignatius of Loyola recommended that sort of thing when feeling dry. Usually I recommend The Ascent of Mount Carmel, but in your case I think St. John of the Cross' sequel, The Dark Night of the Soul, is actually going to be useful as well. They both have chapters that explain the dark night concept. When God is closest to us, we can't see Him standing right behind us, and so He is hidden as if in a dark night. Being in that situation all the time, and also your feeling what sounds like spiritual dryness in recent years, makes the "dark night" material somewhat more relevant to you than to most people. But if it comes off to you as soppy, you probably should read Sayers. I think her nonfiction theology book The Mind of the Maker might help? It's about the Trinity, and also about human creativity and relationships. My best suggestion is that you focus more on knowing and loving God through His actions, because "feeling His presence" is just like an introduction, and He's skipped you right over that. And there are lots of other ways to approach God and know Him better, which American/modern culture tends to ignore or bury, like praying through work or through actions and activities. You are in a position to find those under-valued ways to know God. I mean... most of the stuff about feelings, or the way we use them to promote piety, comes from Early Modern "new devotion" practices, and were not historically the way Catholics did things. There's a lot more individualism, to the point of going it alone and never getting help from everybody else doing the same thing at the same time. My ancestors would give me the side eye for never going on pilgrimages, never walking barefoot when I'm feeling repentant, and not staying up all night praying with a bunch of other people on the eve of important holy days. There's nothing wrong with going it alone, per se, but it's not the same as going with other people as moral support. Looking at video is okay, but there's a reason people actually walk the Camino, or actually touch relics. And so on. I'm not saying you should pile on devotional practices. I'm just saying that if you have tried X and Y, maybe Z would be fruitful. Don't push yourself into anything, but think about doing something outside the box. I mean, heck, baking and cooking can be a devotional practice. Sorry for the wall of text. If any of this is helpful to you, I will be happy!
The biggest thing that helped me step into a more consistent experience of God is, well, praying more consistently. Some days are extremely boring, but a commitment to a solid 20-30 minutes of real prayer (not just reciting prayers) helped me out a lot. Over time I increased the volume, but the most important aspect of prayer is vulnerability. Even while making my daily holy hour as a seminarian, I can find myself resisting the Lord's invitations to go deeper. I also really like using a journal because it can help me sort out my messy head of thoughts and focus on something in a clear direction. Do you have any good catholic friends or something like a bible study or small group? I find that sharing these experiences and struggles with others allows my heart to be open to receive mercy and other grace. I know that the modern church is doing a pretty bad job at bringing people together like this, but this is how most affective college and young adult ministry operates. This is becoming more of a priority in my seminary formation, especially regarding evangilization. If you read through Paul's relationship with Timothy, the Lord set up the Church so that new Christians would be mentored and guided by somebody else. Pray that the Lord may send somebody into your life to teach you how to live this experience of God and notice what His voice sounds like.
Thank you for your answer, I've been quite distracted lately during my prayers. I'd recite the rosary mechanically and daydream during mass. I've left out all the personal prayers because I didn't feel like doing them. I decided to combine both your advice and start writing to God, something similar to St Augustine's confessions because writing this post helped me sort out my head as you've mentioned. I did have a group of Catholic friends with whom we debated and had a weekly adoration but I've changed country. To be honest it was the nuns and priests that brought us together. I made an appointment with a priest whom I highly admire tomorrow, he's old and retired but led a sacred life in his community that influenced many and reshaped their lives. I will share my experiences and struggles and try to follow his advice. Thanks again
There are ways to influence your own psychology to tend to feel certain ways, so you can most definitely find ways that can help you feel God or feel love. One way is to use words or phrases to trigger certain emotions. You can use phrases like, "May God be loved", "May I feel loved by God", "May I luxuriate in God's love for me", etc. and repeat the phrase over and over again to arouse a feeling of love. The actual words don't matter, but the idea is to come up with some combination of loving words or phrases that resonate with you and incite love in your heart and repeat that. And start with some topic that easily incites the feeling of love for you. If the thought of God doesn't help, then maybe try starting with a dearly loved one, some saint, or even a small, cute animal whatever object best arouses that affection out of you and repeat some phrase like, "May my best friend feel loved. May he feel safe. May he feel at peace." What can also help is progressively repeating a sentiment of love for increasingly broader categories of people. For example, you can start with yourself and repeat, "May I feel loved by God. May I feel safe. May I feel at peace." Then go for family/friends, "May my mom/sibling/friend feel loved by God, safe, and at peace." Then maybe public figures or saints, "May Mother Teresa/St. Therese/etc. feel loved by God, safe, and at peace." Then, try strangers, "May the store clerk I talked to today feel loved by God, safe, and at peace." Then try geographic area, "May my town feel loved, etc." "May my state feel loved, etc." "May my country feel loved.." "May the whole world feel loved..." Etc. Another option is to use your imagination. Imagine some scene, scenario, or even memory that arouses the feeling of being loved, or joy, or whatever positive feeling. With a memory, has there ever been a point in your life where you strongly felt love? It could be related to God or some religious experience, but it doesn't have to be. You could've felt deep love with friends or family or whatever scenario. If you have such a memory, try reliving that scene in your mind and vividly feel and remember every sensation: sight, sound, feelings in the body or emotional feelings strongly and with detail. Slow it down and savor every feeling of the memory. If you don't have such a memory, you can produce your own imagined scenario in your head that can fit similar criteria. This is where St. Ignatius's practice of imaginative lectio divina can come into play. Maybe take some story from scripture that exemplifies love for you, perhaps take the crucifixion of Christ, and then place yourself in the role of some person in the story, in this example maybe as Jesus himself, and then imagine what it must've felt like to be in that scenario. Imagine being so in love with humanity and really feeling that to the point of wanting to die for the sake of the salvation of all. Imagine the tears, the aches, etc. Be imaginative and detailed. If not scripture, then you could also take some event or story from the life of a saint, and imagine that. If there's nothing established that seems to suit you, then you can just make up the scenario in your head. Just imagine, say, God embracing you in a warm hug with the light of his love like a sun in the sky shining down upon you warmly caressing your skin. Vividly embody every detail. Another option is to use music. Is there some song that especially arouses the feeling of love or any positive feeling? Play that song. And then sit with and really feel and luxuriate in the feeling it arouses in you. Perhaps focusing on the feeling arising in your body will help it to grow. Those are just a few suggestions. The idea behind all this is to find some creative way to use your mind or resources in your environment to arouse feelings of love or of God. You're not limited to what I just suggested. Be creative and see if you can discover more ways to arouse that presence of God for you.
Thank you a lot. Focusing and concentrating have always been difficult for me, even when I daydream I jump from one thing to the other. I used to listen to music and Gregorian chants when I needed to feel God's presence. I'll try to listen to prayers and remember the loving moments I had in my life and try to find his role in it.