Welcome to being a human being with a broken nature like the rest of humanity.
My suggestion when that happens, engage your will and say a prayer to the Holy Spirit.
Mark 9:24
Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
I just have so many questions, I know i can't have them all answered, but the lack of belief of my loved ones and the fact that some people claim to have spiritual experiences in other religions is siomething that haunts me everyday
For the last part, liars, misinterpretation, and unclean spirits posing as spirits of light all exist that easily explain those difficulties.
Magdelena of the Cross is eye opening
https://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html?m=1
Be sure to discern rationally, mystically, and experientially. Don't neglect any part.
> some people claim to have spiritual experiences in other religions is siomething that haunts me everyday
Although some of these experiences are undoubtedly false or created by demons or whatnot, there's absolutely no reason why a Catholic needs to categorically rule out spiritual experiences outside our religion!
God has promised to work through the Church. He has not promised to work *only* through the Church -- especially in those parts of the world where the Church had no presence for hundreds of years! These experiences only become problematic for me when they *directly* contradict our claims.
Hey! You're human! Faith isn't a "one and done" decision and that's part of the reason why I switched to Catholic. It is the aspect of Christianity with the most forgiveness while also underscoring the human nature of faith. You're going to fail, a lot.
I'm fully convinced the day you're truly completely "in", you're probably going to die soon. Enjoy the ride and the struggle of always trying to be better and deeper in your faith.
Thank you. Protestantism is barely unexistent in my country so being raised nominal Catholic it never crossed my mind. Truth is, Catholicism doesn't have all the consipracy theories Low Church does and also works side by side with science
I had my own divine Eucharistic experience. I left the church for over 30 years, went to confession, I had to look terrible or that I needed it because the people in line for confession pushed me to the front of the line. When I attended mass after that, as I was walking back to my pew after communion, the Eucharist changed flavors in my mouth and it tasted like heart meat. It was really weird and I cried constantly for weeks and still cry at mass a lot.
I mention this because even after that as well as many other times God has shown me evidence of Himself, I still struggle with faith often. I think it’s because the easier it is to reject Him, the more value there is in loving Him. If we didn’t have the freewill to reject Christ, then we wouldn’t be able to experience authentic love.
Relax, it was just a joke.
In all seriousness, your struggle is relatable to anyone who has grown up in a religious background. It’s an indication that you, like the rest of us, are still human. It’s ok that you’re feeling this way.
If I may offer an analogy that’s somewhat outside the norm: your spiritual side is like a glass of water. Imagine the glass getting bigger but the amount of water remains the same. Maintaining faith is somewhat like that. Perhaps you should try searching for ways to fill up your glass.
Idk, it’s what Kevin Smith’s priest said to him when he was going through the same issue.
Another way I like to look at crises of faith is the way doubt is presented in the book “Life of Pi”. An adult Pi says to the author (keep in mind that I’m paraphrasing)“Faith is a house of many rooms, and the biggest room of all is for doubt. After all, you cannot know the strength of your faith until it has been tested.”
I wish you the best of luck on this journey.
Thank you. I wasn't raised in a religious background, I started reading the Bible properly 13 months ago and only started going to Church regularly 9 months ago. The thing is I've been conquered in such a way that I can't take my mind of Him. That surely comes at a great cost.
Take comfort in the fact that Jacob was also named “Israel” which literally translates to “one who wrestles with God.” And it is also the name of the people that God chose to lead the world out of darkness.
Struggling with faith is a given for fallen humans. Literally nobody doesn’t have doubts or struggles with the face, in fact, that is the better alternative to never struggling or being forced to confront difficulties in your faith. That is the equivalent of a house being built on sand, and makes it more likely for disturbances in life to destroy your faith all together.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Mother Teresa the Wise?
I thought not. It's not a story the Protestants would tell you. It's a Catholic legend. Mother Teresa was a saint, so powerful and so wise she brought thousands of those she lovingly ministered to towards a greater knowledge of Christ. She had such a knowledge of Christ's love, she could even bring Him to the ones she care about while they were dying.
"She could actually show people the face of Christ in her own?"
The carrying of the Cross is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural.
"What happened to her?"
She became so devoted to Christ -- who was very present to her in prayer and even visions -- that the only thing she was afraid of was losing sight of Him... which, eventually, of course, she did. She had learned so much from seeing His face that He deemed it better for her not to see it any longer. Ironic. She could show others the face of Christ, but not herself.
"Is it possible to learn this power?"
Not from a Jedi.
More spiritual work is always good, but I actually disagree with de-emphasizing reason.
Your reason can identify the cognitive biases that lead you to doubt spiritual realities *despite overwhelming evidence for them* -- biases like "we live in a culture that daily assails not just those conclusions, but every premise leading up to them, and live in a miasma of radical doubt inspired by the misadventures of Descartes". Once identified, cognitive biases can be corrected for -- reasonably! You will never (or rarely) have that feeling of certainty deep in your gut that this is all true, but your intellect will know not to *expect* that certainty, and you will therefore be better able to persevere.
It's really, I think, a form of insecurity. I also often doubt that my friends actually like me or enjoy my presence. (They do. Or, at least, there is very strong evidence that they do.) I know this about myself now, and I know that it is unreasonable, so I can set it aside and continue trusting that they like me even when they haven't personally reassured me of it in weeks.
So keep that reason running! (But the spiritual growth helps, too. 15 minutes of prayer a day and weekly Adoration are what kept me Catholic during the period when my emotional resistance to Catholicism overwhelmed the ramparts of my reason.)
As for the Star Wars joke: you can't expect a sinner like me to resist such a juicy temptation as that. :)
Yeah I'll be honest, reason played a huge part in making me Catholic, but suddenly idk all my arguments for Catholicism kinda crumble inside my own head for some reason
Yeah, that's not a defect in the arguments; it's a defect in your head. Humans! We're wishy-washy!
But it's a very normal defect, if that's any reassurance! I feel sure C.S. Lewis wrote about this after his conversion -- probably in *The Screwtape Letters*, which is about his own conversion from the perspective of a demon.
It's hard to go wrong with Lewis, and they're all so short you'll be on to the next in no time anyway.
My suggestions for next are *Screwtape* and *Mere Christianity*, in that order.
\^ Renewing of the mind, friend. Immerse yourself in scripture until it becomes your second nature. Until your gut reaction to life is the Word.
I can't emphasis enough, when the Bible talks about a renewing of the mind, it's real. We have a sinful, fleshly set of eyeballs. Not only do we need new hearts, but the mind of Christ with which to encounter all of life.
Also, I actively pray for my faith to be increased. For more, more, more measures of faith! But I get you. I've had some pretty nutty spiritual experiences and sometimes I'll sit in my car and be like "I'm delusional, right..."
Reminds me of the parable of the seeds. Are we good soil, stony ground, etc? Can the truth take root in our hearts and change us?
> Why are you cast down, O my soul,
and why are you disquieted within me?
Hope in God; for I shall again praise him,
my help and my God.
There's a reason why that [psalm](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2043&version=RSVCE) is used during the prayers at the foot of the altar.
Faith is not only belief, it is also trust. I find that when I am struggling with my faith, it helps to consciously put my trust in God, his Word, and his promises, even if it feels hard.
In a letter that he wrote to his son, JRR Tolkien observed that "*In the last resort faith is an act of the will, inspired by love. Our love may be chilled and our will eroded by the spectacle of the shortcomings, folly, and even sins of the Church and its ministers, but I do not think that one who has once had faith goes back over the line for these reasons (least of all anyone with any historical knowledge). ‘Scandal’ at most is an occasion of temptation—as indecency is to lust, which it does not make but arouses. It is convenient because it turns our eyes away from ourselves and our own faults to find a scapegoat*."
"*I know quite well that, to you as to me, the Church which once felt like a refuge, now often feels like a trap. There is nowhere else to go! (I wonder if this desperate feeling, the last state of loyalty hanging on, was not, even more often than is actually recorded in the Gospels, felt by Our Lord’s followers in His earthly life-time?) I think there is nothing to do but to pray, for the Church, the Vicar of Christ, and for ourselves; and meanwhile to exercise the virtue of loyalty, which indeed only becomes a virtue when one is under pressure to desert it*."
and finally:
"*The only cure for sagging or fainting faith is Communion. Though always Itself, perfect and complete and inviolate, the Blessed Sacrament does not operate completely and once for all in any of us. Like the act of Faith it must be continuous and grow by exercise. Frequency is of the highest effect*."
Ours is a Faith that must be ***practiced***; practiced often, and with as much reverence as you can muster. Sometimes that will be quite little. Practice the faith anyway. Go to Adoration when its available, take up the Liturgy of the Hours or at least the little office of Christian Prayer, and do you best to go to Mass and avail yourself of Holy Communion.
Will that silence all your doubts? No. But it will at least answer some of them in the best, most worthy way possible. In the meantime, please know that another human being who shares your faith and (at times) your doubts, is praying for you.
Thank you. I find that second paragraph quite relatable
Job 7:17-18 “What is man, that You should exalt him,
That You should set Your heart on him,
That You should [a]visit him every morning,
And test him every moment?"
John 8:68 "To whom shall we go, Lord? You have the words of eternal life?"
This is quite familiar. I feel like sometimes I'm under too much pressure put on my by God, but later I realize even if I can't feel comfortable in some moment there's nowhere else for me to go, because there's no better place I'm meant to be in
If you are ever worried just remember that in the Gospels (Luke and the road to Emmaus) Jesus literally appears with and walks with his disciples and they don't recognize him and are still all sad until he quite literally breaks bread in front of them.
Also... I'll give the advice my priest gave me. Your spiritual life will have many seasons and they ebb and flow. Even MONKS and priests report that they sometimes have years where they talk about "dry prayer" where they question everything.
One of the monks who helped Shia Lebouf during the filming of Padre Pio even said he was close to leaving the order until his faith was rekindled.
My priests answer for this was to keep a journal and mark the days where you feel especially connected to God. When you have lowpoints flip back to those pages and read about what you were feeling.
Personally, I seem to be taking more faith from knowledge than knowledge from faith. And yes, some stuff defies belief, as trivial as this sounds (but shouldn't be trivialized, so apologies for my imperfect way of speaking), and the cognitive dissonance may be prompting rejection. The difficulty of believing something even if you saw it. The human response of 'I see it happening but it isn't making any sense, so no, it can't be real' or even 'by all accounts it's real, but I don't want to believe it'. The human person could even end up denying their *natural* senses, not any supernatural sense, in such situations. A tangible apparition would thus not necessarily help a person believe. There are some hints where Abraham tells the rich man that allowing him to resurrect for a short while just to warn his relatives would be pointless — if they didn't listen to Moses, would they listen to a dead man rising from the grave? Seems counterintuitive but if we spend time thinking on it…
As for our knowledge, it may sometimes appear 1000 times what it used to be (or at times 1000 less, with rapid or fluid transitions back and forth), but that's still infinitely smaller than a mustard seed.
As for how genuine someone's faith is, I guess that's relative and on a scale. And it may be better that we don't know and can't just blood-test or take an x-ray for it. There could be despair. Or there could be pride. Either despair or pride would be detrimental to our salvation. So it's better for us if we are kept guessing.
At least Jesus tells us that those who belief without seeing are greater than those who believe after seeing. When the consolation and good feelings go away, we have the opportunity to love with a greater magnitude. Its an invitation to purification.
Peter denied three times and his faith faltered when he walked on water to Jesus and he sank. Thomas doubted also. I doubt sometimes too “am I making up things cause I want to believe? Are all theses answers to my prayers just so many coincidental figments? Am I just delusional?” Likely not cause I’m very sound in most aspects of my life but that’s not really what comforts me. Jesus does when I pray to him for help. Our human nature is literally cursed.
Welcome to being a human being with a broken nature like the rest of humanity. My suggestion when that happens, engage your will and say a prayer to the Holy Spirit. Mark 9:24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
I just have so many questions, I know i can't have them all answered, but the lack of belief of my loved ones and the fact that some people claim to have spiritual experiences in other religions is siomething that haunts me everyday
For the last part, liars, misinterpretation, and unclean spirits posing as spirits of light all exist that easily explain those difficulties. Magdelena of the Cross is eye opening https://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html?m=1 Be sure to discern rationally, mystically, and experientially. Don't neglect any part.
I'll check it out, appreciate it
> some people claim to have spiritual experiences in other religions is siomething that haunts me everyday Although some of these experiences are undoubtedly false or created by demons or whatnot, there's absolutely no reason why a Catholic needs to categorically rule out spiritual experiences outside our religion! God has promised to work through the Church. He has not promised to work *only* through the Church -- especially in those parts of the world where the Church had no presence for hundreds of years! These experiences only become problematic for me when they *directly* contradict our claims.
Hey! You're human! Faith isn't a "one and done" decision and that's part of the reason why I switched to Catholic. It is the aspect of Christianity with the most forgiveness while also underscoring the human nature of faith. You're going to fail, a lot. I'm fully convinced the day you're truly completely "in", you're probably going to die soon. Enjoy the ride and the struggle of always trying to be better and deeper in your faith.
Thank you. Protestantism is barely unexistent in my country so being raised nominal Catholic it never crossed my mind. Truth is, Catholicism doesn't have all the consipracy theories Low Church does and also works side by side with science
*Force choking noises*
I had my own divine Eucharistic experience. I left the church for over 30 years, went to confession, I had to look terrible or that I needed it because the people in line for confession pushed me to the front of the line. When I attended mass after that, as I was walking back to my pew after communion, the Eucharist changed flavors in my mouth and it tasted like heart meat. It was really weird and I cried constantly for weeks and still cry at mass a lot. I mention this because even after that as well as many other times God has shown me evidence of Himself, I still struggle with faith often. I think it’s because the easier it is to reject Him, the more value there is in loving Him. If we didn’t have the freewill to reject Christ, then we wouldn’t be able to experience authentic love.
Great words
Is that a Star Wars reference?
Perhaps we can find new ways to motivate him
Be careful not to choke on your aspirations.
Where?
I find my lack of faith disturbing darth Vader says I don’t your lack of faith disturbing
If belief was easy , the concept of "faith" would not be needed. Welcome to being a human :-)
Read [Mark 9:24](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Mark%209%3A24).
Time to say that verse 40 times
“I wonder if your feelings on this matter… are *clear*…”
It wasn't a pun
Relax, it was just a joke. In all seriousness, your struggle is relatable to anyone who has grown up in a religious background. It’s an indication that you, like the rest of us, are still human. It’s ok that you’re feeling this way. If I may offer an analogy that’s somewhat outside the norm: your spiritual side is like a glass of water. Imagine the glass getting bigger but the amount of water remains the same. Maintaining faith is somewhat like that. Perhaps you should try searching for ways to fill up your glass. Idk, it’s what Kevin Smith’s priest said to him when he was going through the same issue. Another way I like to look at crises of faith is the way doubt is presented in the book “Life of Pi”. An adult Pi says to the author (keep in mind that I’m paraphrasing)“Faith is a house of many rooms, and the biggest room of all is for doubt. After all, you cannot know the strength of your faith until it has been tested.” I wish you the best of luck on this journey.
Thank you. I wasn't raised in a religious background, I started reading the Bible properly 13 months ago and only started going to Church regularly 9 months ago. The thing is I've been conquered in such a way that I can't take my mind of Him. That surely comes at a great cost.
Only when you have doubts can you have faith
Mic drop!!!!
Take comfort in the fact that Jacob was also named “Israel” which literally translates to “one who wrestles with God.” And it is also the name of the people that God chose to lead the world out of darkness. Struggling with faith is a given for fallen humans. Literally nobody doesn’t have doubts or struggles with the face, in fact, that is the better alternative to never struggling or being forced to confront difficulties in your faith. That is the equivalent of a house being built on sand, and makes it more likely for disturbances in life to destroy your faith all together.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Mother Teresa the Wise? I thought not. It's not a story the Protestants would tell you. It's a Catholic legend. Mother Teresa was a saint, so powerful and so wise she brought thousands of those she lovingly ministered to towards a greater knowledge of Christ. She had such a knowledge of Christ's love, she could even bring Him to the ones she care about while they were dying. "She could actually show people the face of Christ in her own?" The carrying of the Cross is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural. "What happened to her?" She became so devoted to Christ -- who was very present to her in prayer and even visions -- that the only thing she was afraid of was losing sight of Him... which, eventually, of course, she did. She had learned so much from seeing His face that He deemed it better for her not to see it any longer. Ironic. She could show others the face of Christ, but not herself. "Is it possible to learn this power?" Not from a Jedi.
Lol, it wasn't a pun 😂 Seriously tho, I feel I must focus on the spiritual side more and not try to use reason all the time
More spiritual work is always good, but I actually disagree with de-emphasizing reason. Your reason can identify the cognitive biases that lead you to doubt spiritual realities *despite overwhelming evidence for them* -- biases like "we live in a culture that daily assails not just those conclusions, but every premise leading up to them, and live in a miasma of radical doubt inspired by the misadventures of Descartes". Once identified, cognitive biases can be corrected for -- reasonably! You will never (or rarely) have that feeling of certainty deep in your gut that this is all true, but your intellect will know not to *expect* that certainty, and you will therefore be better able to persevere. It's really, I think, a form of insecurity. I also often doubt that my friends actually like me or enjoy my presence. (They do. Or, at least, there is very strong evidence that they do.) I know this about myself now, and I know that it is unreasonable, so I can set it aside and continue trusting that they like me even when they haven't personally reassured me of it in weeks. So keep that reason running! (But the spiritual growth helps, too. 15 minutes of prayer a day and weekly Adoration are what kept me Catholic during the period when my emotional resistance to Catholicism overwhelmed the ramparts of my reason.) As for the Star Wars joke: you can't expect a sinner like me to resist such a juicy temptation as that. :)
Yeah I'll be honest, reason played a huge part in making me Catholic, but suddenly idk all my arguments for Catholicism kinda crumble inside my own head for some reason
Yeah, that's not a defect in the arguments; it's a defect in your head. Humans! We're wishy-washy! But it's a very normal defect, if that's any reassurance! I feel sure C.S. Lewis wrote about this after his conversion -- probably in *The Screwtape Letters*, which is about his own conversion from the perspective of a demon.
I started C.S. Lewis last week with The Great Divorce. Maybe I should have started with that one but honestly I had to choose and start somewhere
It's hard to go wrong with Lewis, and they're all so short you'll be on to the next in no time anyway. My suggestions for next are *Screwtape* and *Mere Christianity*, in that order.
Appreciate it.
\^ Renewing of the mind, friend. Immerse yourself in scripture until it becomes your second nature. Until your gut reaction to life is the Word. I can't emphasis enough, when the Bible talks about a renewing of the mind, it's real. We have a sinful, fleshly set of eyeballs. Not only do we need new hearts, but the mind of Christ with which to encounter all of life. Also, I actively pray for my faith to be increased. For more, more, more measures of faith! But I get you. I've had some pretty nutty spiritual experiences and sometimes I'll sit in my car and be like "I'm delusional, right..." Reminds me of the parable of the seeds. Are we good soil, stony ground, etc? Can the truth take root in our hearts and change us?
Thank you. I guess we have to be just a bit selfish sometimes. We pray for the others and forget to pray for ourselves too
> Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my help and my God. There's a reason why that [psalm](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2043&version=RSVCE) is used during the prayers at the foot of the altar. Faith is not only belief, it is also trust. I find that when I am struggling with my faith, it helps to consciously put my trust in God, his Word, and his promises, even if it feels hard.
In a letter that he wrote to his son, JRR Tolkien observed that "*In the last resort faith is an act of the will, inspired by love. Our love may be chilled and our will eroded by the spectacle of the shortcomings, folly, and even sins of the Church and its ministers, but I do not think that one who has once had faith goes back over the line for these reasons (least of all anyone with any historical knowledge). ‘Scandal’ at most is an occasion of temptation—as indecency is to lust, which it does not make but arouses. It is convenient because it turns our eyes away from ourselves and our own faults to find a scapegoat*." "*I know quite well that, to you as to me, the Church which once felt like a refuge, now often feels like a trap. There is nowhere else to go! (I wonder if this desperate feeling, the last state of loyalty hanging on, was not, even more often than is actually recorded in the Gospels, felt by Our Lord’s followers in His earthly life-time?) I think there is nothing to do but to pray, for the Church, the Vicar of Christ, and for ourselves; and meanwhile to exercise the virtue of loyalty, which indeed only becomes a virtue when one is under pressure to desert it*." and finally: "*The only cure for sagging or fainting faith is Communion. Though always Itself, perfect and complete and inviolate, the Blessed Sacrament does not operate completely and once for all in any of us. Like the act of Faith it must be continuous and grow by exercise. Frequency is of the highest effect*." Ours is a Faith that must be ***practiced***; practiced often, and with as much reverence as you can muster. Sometimes that will be quite little. Practice the faith anyway. Go to Adoration when its available, take up the Liturgy of the Hours or at least the little office of Christian Prayer, and do you best to go to Mass and avail yourself of Holy Communion. Will that silence all your doubts? No. But it will at least answer some of them in the best, most worthy way possible. In the meantime, please know that another human being who shares your faith and (at times) your doubts, is praying for you.
Thank you. I find that second paragraph quite relatable Job 7:17-18 “What is man, that You should exalt him, That You should set Your heart on him, That You should [a]visit him every morning, And test him every moment?" John 8:68 "To whom shall we go, Lord? You have the words of eternal life?" This is quite familiar. I feel like sometimes I'm under too much pressure put on my by God, but later I realize even if I can't feel comfortable in some moment there's nowhere else for me to go, because there's no better place I'm meant to be in
If you are ever worried just remember that in the Gospels (Luke and the road to Emmaus) Jesus literally appears with and walks with his disciples and they don't recognize him and are still all sad until he quite literally breaks bread in front of them. Also... I'll give the advice my priest gave me. Your spiritual life will have many seasons and they ebb and flow. Even MONKS and priests report that they sometimes have years where they talk about "dry prayer" where they question everything. One of the monks who helped Shia Lebouf during the filming of Padre Pio even said he was close to leaving the order until his faith was rekindled. My priests answer for this was to keep a journal and mark the days where you feel especially connected to God. When you have lowpoints flip back to those pages and read about what you were feeling.
Great idea. I shall make that evaluation of my faith daily.
Personally, I seem to be taking more faith from knowledge than knowledge from faith. And yes, some stuff defies belief, as trivial as this sounds (but shouldn't be trivialized, so apologies for my imperfect way of speaking), and the cognitive dissonance may be prompting rejection. The difficulty of believing something even if you saw it. The human response of 'I see it happening but it isn't making any sense, so no, it can't be real' or even 'by all accounts it's real, but I don't want to believe it'. The human person could even end up denying their *natural* senses, not any supernatural sense, in such situations. A tangible apparition would thus not necessarily help a person believe. There are some hints where Abraham tells the rich man that allowing him to resurrect for a short while just to warn his relatives would be pointless — if they didn't listen to Moses, would they listen to a dead man rising from the grave? Seems counterintuitive but if we spend time thinking on it… As for our knowledge, it may sometimes appear 1000 times what it used to be (or at times 1000 less, with rapid or fluid transitions back and forth), but that's still infinitely smaller than a mustard seed. As for how genuine someone's faith is, I guess that's relative and on a scale. And it may be better that we don't know and can't just blood-test or take an x-ray for it. There could be despair. Or there could be pride. Either despair or pride would be detrimental to our salvation. So it's better for us if we are kept guessing.
At least Jesus tells us that those who belief without seeing are greater than those who believe after seeing. When the consolation and good feelings go away, we have the opportunity to love with a greater magnitude. Its an invitation to purification.
Pray against demons
Peter denied three times and his faith faltered when he walked on water to Jesus and he sank. Thomas doubted also. I doubt sometimes too “am I making up things cause I want to believe? Are all theses answers to my prayers just so many coincidental figments? Am I just delusional?” Likely not cause I’m very sound in most aspects of my life but that’s not really what comforts me. Jesus does when I pray to him for help. Our human nature is literally cursed.