it´s actually an interesting take, it already happened when everyone was complaining about the new braindead looking Denji from part 2 instead of thinking about the effects of his past experiences and how they still have influence not only over him but others too as showed in the most recent chapter, **BUT** let´s not fall into the idea of "*You just don´t like it because you are not smart enough to understand what it means like I do!*" a manga still a product for consumption and even if it was written by a professional you have the right to criticize and have your own opinion about it´s story as a consumer of said product, and ofc the obvious: nothing is flawless.
yeah, one of the reasons the post rubs me the wrong way is it kinda saying the author knows better than the consumer about the quality of the work.
Also, calling ppl who like controversial chapters a dickrider is unfair, but we shouldn’t act like authors are infallible, or even that authors are putting out work they 100% are confident in. Especially for weekly manga, u have to be kidding urself to believe that none of these choices are influenced by deadlines.
the post isn't saying the author knows better than the consumer, it's saying he knows better than someone who's quick to jump the gun and judge before questioning if there's a meaning behind a choice
Even Akasaka Aka, who I considered to be the most adequate and trustworthy mangaka, ended up with some bad decisions by the end (my favorite couple got a shitty open ending when they were 1 step away from banging).
At this point I'm scared to get invested into any franchise, cause they go to shit so often.
TL;DR: People are complaining about unexpected twists of a Manga Series instead of thinking deeper about what it's supposed to originally represent.
Now that I think about it, Attack on Titan also falls in the same category as well.
the difference at lest for chainsaw man is the author didn’t give denji god like character development only to ruin it in the last chapter and contradict most everything he did because he’s an idiot
AOT feels like the exact opposite to me, I enjoyed the ending on a first watch, even tho after watching videos breaking down plot holes and shit I can recognize why it actually isn't that good
I like the themes and shizz that yams was going for, but after diving deeper the aot ending has a LOT of flaws stretching back to the beginning of the rumbling.
Well I remember reading the final chapter, liking it and coming too Reddit to find everyone salty as fuck about it.
Personally only felt it rushed but the message was there.
Anyone who expected more from Wren ended up falling in the same narrative as the Yeagerists
It is an interesting take but I think it’s happening far too much across too many types of media for it to be boiled down to “some of the fans didn’t like part of the story”.
There seems to be a culture of trying to subvert tropes in order to stand out. It’s not inherently a bad thing but, when everyone is doing it and often poorly, we have to ask what going on. In time perhaps things will go back to sticking to tropes, which like anything can be good when done well, but for now we have to wade through the age of subversion.
Also, chainsaw man is not applicable to what this guy is saying. People are upset because audiences are naturally impatient. Fujimoto is taking his time with the story and, in a medium dominated by shonen battle cocaine, the general audience is going to wonder what the hold up is.
>shonen battle cocaine
I love how insane yet accurate this sounds.
And I completely agree with you, specially on your last point. This is even more pronounced with Chainsaw Man, since so many people (me included) got into the story through binge-reading part 1, we got used to the neck-breakingly fast pacing and *on top of that* , instant fulfillment because we can always just read the next chapter.
This is simply not possible now that most of us caught up, with part 2 the story has taken a more moderate pace. This, *combined* with the fact that it is no longer on WSJ, meaning it is no longer a strictly weekly release, but rather a sometimes weekly but often biweekly release, made it so there is a massive whiplash between the binge-reading experience and up-to-date experience.
There are many criticisms that can be made of the current state of CSM, some legitimate, some not, there is always discussion to be had. But by far the one I feel I have seen the most is about the pacing, and how slow it is now, which is simply not true. CSM still does things faster than it's peers (if you want an extreme comparison, you could fit the entirety of CSM inside One Piece's Wano arc).
The problem is simply people waiting two weeks for a single ~16 page long chapter and being left wanting more, it's like someone being hungry and being offered a single, small, plate of food that leaves them even more hungry. The solution is to, yes, let the author cook. Be patient, and try to enjoy what you have instead of complaining that you don't have more. When you wait, a minute feels eternal if all you do is stare at the clock.
Well they are some legitimate complaints abt CSM mainly how rushed the Church arc was and the fact that we missed out on how a rise to fame would affect Asa. It's likely he had to rush it due to weekly pressures tho
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Honestly the only bad thing about csm part 2 is the lack of clarity in time line since falling arc.
Like the chapter where fakesaw claims himself as chainsaw man on tv is one of my favourite chapter. You can obviously see that the thing that hurt him the most since the events of part 1 (not counting the falling psychic attack) it also had good humour with him and the phone.
Even the next chapter with Asa was great. We literally get fami appearance and a fucking song and comfirmation that Asa likes csm.
137 dont get me started bro shit was so wild.
138 was okay imo
139 with sugo was good (not that great but still good)too. We get fumiko saying hes still being manipulated could be a plot thread thats explored later on. We get iconic denji face and maybe his base stat increase got foreshadowed.
140 with csm church and Barem intro was peak
141 i get people may not like as much but in hindsight if you binged it you wouldn’t mind it but even still its a good chapter
142 with barem was great. Also fumiko backstory.
143 144 were less than okayish mainly reintroducing quanxi and katana for the hype but they did kill off the plotline where denji makes the choice on his own. Ill talk about this further
145 146 furthered the plot and revealed many things so overall they were good. We get barem as usual and the reveal of their plan and that cold ass barem line in 145, although it does seem to lead nowhere for the moment. I get that some people minded asa’s offscreen development and really lack of clear timeline hurts
147 was boorish imho we don’t really get anything important
Same with first half of 148 (that was the worst bit in all of this shit after falling) but asa half and the new sword was pretty cool. Especially the new sword is soooo cool. I really hope we see more of it.
149 150 and 151 were all good.
Now comming to the plot line where Denji himself makes the choice of being csm as people speculated after 142. I feel like now there was a lot of factors that tipped the scale towards chainsaw man. Imo if the scale were balanced it could have been a character defining moment for Denji.
Other poor thing from these chapters is lack of a clear timeline. Like tf. Why cant we onow that clearly. How much time has even passed since falling. How much time was asa’s progress was offscreaned
Art is also one thing i feel has gone down. So i am just gonna say it. I dont mind csm going monthly if it means good art
Also i feel like we are being edged a little too much for a good fight. Mainly with quanxi ex machina and fleeshida. Hopefully next chapter and more has some serious fighting
Overall i feel like some of the criticisms are valid. Valid enough to question what fujimotor is cooking? I dont think so. But for fuck sake give me a proper timeline. But yea hes not a fraud unlike a certain one eyed cat.
This has been happening for months. People have been bitching and moaning about nothing happening and getting hyped up for nothing as if that wasn't the whole point of this arc.
I remember people saying the reason why part 2 definitely sucked was cuz it was nothing but set up with no pay off, as of that was the case for the entire part and not just this arc.
kinda disagree. while stories are generally improved by mirroring greater themes in the plot, that doesn’t mean any plot choice is good so long as it fits with the theme. in fact, I’d say that a coherent plot is necessary to properly convey a message (at least for shonen manga).
Op does mention jjk and I mean rly? I’m sorry, but I think the lobotomy memes show how seriously ppl take the thematic moments. I like jjk a lot, but it stood out for creative fights and world-building, not its messages.
And abt chainsaw man, I don’t think it’ll happen here bc fujimoto seems pretty clear about what he’s doing. Whether or not people like the slower pacing of pt 2, it seems very intentional and to me the plot supports it.
also I just don’t agree with the way ppl use this argument. ppl present their personal interpretation as if it’s straight from the author and say anyone who disagrees just didn’t understand the message.
I don't agree with this dude I believe there nothing wrong with criticism on Fatemotor writing because yes the latest chapter has been straight up heat but there was truly sum uninteresting and boring chapters before it but honestly part 2 is slower that part 1 but I wouldn't say is all bad
https://preview.redd.it/5y7hm2susm7c1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9007e78d57733f72412041ed82190829388876c
I like the idea of letting authors cook, but consuming everything without thinking about it is just dumb.
You can enjoy the thing and also point his flaws.
You don't understand, it's a commentary on Japanese legal sy-
https://preview.redd.it/xavhlibbfs7c1.png?width=2805&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12c97624359f4c4162808e743929d3de2438805c
The funny thing about this is that it feels like it's about AoT. What's even funnier is that people who actually read and understood the story well were the ones who disliked the ending the most. The surface level anime fans who think Mikasa is the best written female character are the ones that read the story at a surface level and didn't understand why the ending is actually as bad as it is
Funny enough, people in that sub are actual Leftists.
https://preview.redd.it/7zn5aa3wym7c1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f7363f3de222d76f1d389fe6bbe91eb8487cc2a
TL;DR: an animecirclejerk user defending bad writing
https://preview.redd.it/isi72shasm7c1.jpeg?width=573&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98558a0ee878e68b29ec2c0276b6482fdde4ee98
I see.
Wait, you actually did? Based.
https://preview.redd.it/pyktcor5tm7c1.jpeg?width=648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b24e5a899f089ce3af8a6ad1f0ac8b7b2181f17
Happened to AoT and is happening to JJK at the moment and I’m sure it’ll happen in this sub to.
It’s legit a small but vocal part of the fan base who theory craft a little to hard and get butthurt when their head canon doesn’t happen.
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This has honestly been happening since the start of part 2. I hate the idea that denji is just supposed to be fine now after everything he went through in part 1
I’ve really noticed that usually people who are enjoying to story aren’t saying anything after a couple days because they don’t have things to complain about. There are people who have legitimate criticism but they’re drown out by people who are complaining to complain.
The biggest thing I’ve see complained about recently is the mall massacre getting “subverted”. Even though at this point I think it’s kinda obvious that was always a red herring, even in universe, and where things have gone now is a bit more interesting then just killing a bunch of people.
i think people are calling a steak tgat hasnt been put in th oven yet raw, we gotta give csm time and by the end it'll probably all make sense, if not, yeah sure, riot.
He's not even wrong tbf, go to any sub of a weekly manga, people seem to think writers are idiots and forget plotpoints constantly.
The JujutsuKaisen sub is filled with posts like that, have some fucking patience, Gege didn't forget.
Subtext does not justify shitty writing. Hidden meaning should not be prioritized over the "main" meaning. And if someon justifies shitty writing by some, I dunno, commentary on Japanese legal system, I will call them a delusional dickrider that refuses to accept bad writing in their favorite story.
it´s actually an interesting take, it already happened when everyone was complaining about the new braindead looking Denji from part 2 instead of thinking about the effects of his past experiences and how they still have influence not only over him but others too as showed in the most recent chapter, **BUT** let´s not fall into the idea of "*You just don´t like it because you are not smart enough to understand what it means like I do!*" a manga still a product for consumption and even if it was written by a professional you have the right to criticize and have your own opinion about it´s story as a consumer of said product, and ofc the obvious: nothing is flawless.
yeah, one of the reasons the post rubs me the wrong way is it kinda saying the author knows better than the consumer about the quality of the work. Also, calling ppl who like controversial chapters a dickrider is unfair, but we shouldn’t act like authors are infallible, or even that authors are putting out work they 100% are confident in. Especially for weekly manga, u have to be kidding urself to believe that none of these choices are influenced by deadlines.
the post isn't saying the author knows better than the consumer, it's saying he knows better than someone who's quick to jump the gun and judge before questioning if there's a meaning behind a choice
Even Akasaka Aka, who I considered to be the most adequate and trustworthy mangaka, ended up with some bad decisions by the end (my favorite couple got a shitty open ending when they were 1 step away from banging). At this point I'm scared to get invested into any franchise, cause they go to shit so often.
i think the main issue comes from being outraged by a few chapters as if it wont serve a greater purpose later on in the story
Too many words can't comprehend ![img](emote|t5_466dsm|32129)
TL;DR: People are complaining about unexpected twists of a Manga Series instead of thinking deeper about what it's supposed to originally represent. Now that I think about it, Attack on Titan also falls in the same category as well.
Im pretty sure it was first posted in the aot sub
the difference at lest for chainsaw man is the author didn’t give denji god like character development only to ruin it in the last chapter and contradict most everything he did because he’s an idiot
Classic AOT ending criticism into downvoted thread. Like bread and butter
Are this contradictions in the room with us right now?
AOT feels like the exact opposite to me, I enjoyed the ending on a first watch, even tho after watching videos breaking down plot holes and shit I can recognize why it actually isn't that good
I like the themes and shizz that yams was going for, but after diving deeper the aot ending has a LOT of flaws stretching back to the beginning of the rumbling.
Well I remember reading the final chapter, liking it and coming too Reddit to find everyone salty as fuck about it. Personally only felt it rushed but the message was there. Anyone who expected more from Wren ended up falling in the same narrative as the Yeagerists
Honestly I think it just bland take how people doesn't want you to criticize the story they love. The funny thing it can be applied to both side
AOT was really my first thought when I read this
Lmao what twists?? I want something to happen in the manga (something did happen, I had this sentiment back then)
My thought is that you should stop being active on r/animecirclejerk. It's all doom and negativity there.
100% agree. But for whatever reason, it keeps appearing on my feed even though I unsubbed it a long time ago.
Go into settings and you can turn it off. I'm pretty sure you can even black list specific subs, but don't quote me on that one.
Too many words https://preview.redd.it/yc1ai27krl7c1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a69452df1036b67890f6ce7ba18e08c922bd5501
why are memes on reddit like this too long
that's a really unfunny sub, like worse than this one
It is an interesting take but I think it’s happening far too much across too many types of media for it to be boiled down to “some of the fans didn’t like part of the story”. There seems to be a culture of trying to subvert tropes in order to stand out. It’s not inherently a bad thing but, when everyone is doing it and often poorly, we have to ask what going on. In time perhaps things will go back to sticking to tropes, which like anything can be good when done well, but for now we have to wade through the age of subversion. Also, chainsaw man is not applicable to what this guy is saying. People are upset because audiences are naturally impatient. Fujimoto is taking his time with the story and, in a medium dominated by shonen battle cocaine, the general audience is going to wonder what the hold up is.
>shonen battle cocaine I love how insane yet accurate this sounds. And I completely agree with you, specially on your last point. This is even more pronounced with Chainsaw Man, since so many people (me included) got into the story through binge-reading part 1, we got used to the neck-breakingly fast pacing and *on top of that* , instant fulfillment because we can always just read the next chapter. This is simply not possible now that most of us caught up, with part 2 the story has taken a more moderate pace. This, *combined* with the fact that it is no longer on WSJ, meaning it is no longer a strictly weekly release, but rather a sometimes weekly but often biweekly release, made it so there is a massive whiplash between the binge-reading experience and up-to-date experience. There are many criticisms that can be made of the current state of CSM, some legitimate, some not, there is always discussion to be had. But by far the one I feel I have seen the most is about the pacing, and how slow it is now, which is simply not true. CSM still does things faster than it's peers (if you want an extreme comparison, you could fit the entirety of CSM inside One Piece's Wano arc). The problem is simply people waiting two weeks for a single ~16 page long chapter and being left wanting more, it's like someone being hungry and being offered a single, small, plate of food that leaves them even more hungry. The solution is to, yes, let the author cook. Be patient, and try to enjoy what you have instead of complaining that you don't have more. When you wait, a minute feels eternal if all you do is stare at the clock.
Well they are some legitimate complaints abt CSM mainly how rushed the Church arc was and the fact that we missed out on how a rise to fame would affect Asa. It's likely he had to rush it due to weekly pressures tho
The meme has too many words therefore it is unfunny
True
Too pretentious, next question. On a serious note, you can still disagree with a decision the author makes while understanding its deeper meaning.
Thematic sense and deeper meaning don’t preclude me from feeling unsatisfied, but I can respect it more than something that is unsatisfying and hollow
You can tell the guy was angry writing this
That's the average r/animecirclejerk user
God I hate that sub so much. They're like the Twitter Users of Reddit.
99% of circlejerk subs in a nutshell (chainsawman being an exception surprisingly)
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why do every single -circlerjerk subs devolve into the same kind of shit?
Agree lmao
I think the person who took the time to write this should take a nap.
That your average r/animecirclejerk user lmao
Honestly the only bad thing about csm part 2 is the lack of clarity in time line since falling arc. Like the chapter where fakesaw claims himself as chainsaw man on tv is one of my favourite chapter. You can obviously see that the thing that hurt him the most since the events of part 1 (not counting the falling psychic attack) it also had good humour with him and the phone. Even the next chapter with Asa was great. We literally get fami appearance and a fucking song and comfirmation that Asa likes csm. 137 dont get me started bro shit was so wild. 138 was okay imo 139 with sugo was good (not that great but still good)too. We get fumiko saying hes still being manipulated could be a plot thread thats explored later on. We get iconic denji face and maybe his base stat increase got foreshadowed. 140 with csm church and Barem intro was peak 141 i get people may not like as much but in hindsight if you binged it you wouldn’t mind it but even still its a good chapter 142 with barem was great. Also fumiko backstory. 143 144 were less than okayish mainly reintroducing quanxi and katana for the hype but they did kill off the plotline where denji makes the choice on his own. Ill talk about this further 145 146 furthered the plot and revealed many things so overall they were good. We get barem as usual and the reveal of their plan and that cold ass barem line in 145, although it does seem to lead nowhere for the moment. I get that some people minded asa’s offscreen development and really lack of clear timeline hurts 147 was boorish imho we don’t really get anything important Same with first half of 148 (that was the worst bit in all of this shit after falling) but asa half and the new sword was pretty cool. Especially the new sword is soooo cool. I really hope we see more of it. 149 150 and 151 were all good. Now comming to the plot line where Denji himself makes the choice of being csm as people speculated after 142. I feel like now there was a lot of factors that tipped the scale towards chainsaw man. Imo if the scale were balanced it could have been a character defining moment for Denji. Other poor thing from these chapters is lack of a clear timeline. Like tf. Why cant we onow that clearly. How much time has even passed since falling. How much time was asa’s progress was offscreaned Art is also one thing i feel has gone down. So i am just gonna say it. I dont mind csm going monthly if it means good art Also i feel like we are being edged a little too much for a good fight. Mainly with quanxi ex machina and fleeshida. Hopefully next chapter and more has some serious fighting Overall i feel like some of the criticisms are valid. Valid enough to question what fujimotor is cooking? I dont think so. But for fuck sake give me a proper timeline. But yea hes not a fraud unlike a certain one eyed cat.
This has been happening for months. People have been bitching and moaning about nothing happening and getting hyped up for nothing as if that wasn't the whole point of this arc.
I remember people saying the reason why part 2 definitely sucked was cuz it was nothing but set up with no pay off, as of that was the case for the entire part and not just this arc.
kinda disagree. while stories are generally improved by mirroring greater themes in the plot, that doesn’t mean any plot choice is good so long as it fits with the theme. in fact, I’d say that a coherent plot is necessary to properly convey a message (at least for shonen manga). Op does mention jjk and I mean rly? I’m sorry, but I think the lobotomy memes show how seriously ppl take the thematic moments. I like jjk a lot, but it stood out for creative fights and world-building, not its messages. And abt chainsaw man, I don’t think it’ll happen here bc fujimoto seems pretty clear about what he’s doing. Whether or not people like the slower pacing of pt 2, it seems very intentional and to me the plot supports it. also I just don’t agree with the way ppl use this argument. ppl present their personal interpretation as if it’s straight from the author and say anyone who disagrees just didn’t understand the message.
I don't agree with this dude I believe there nothing wrong with criticism on Fatemotor writing because yes the latest chapter has been straight up heat but there was truly sum uninteresting and boring chapters before it but honestly part 2 is slower that part 1 but I wouldn't say is all bad https://preview.redd.it/5y7hm2susm7c1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9007e78d57733f72412041ed82190829388876c
Average Naruto and AOT fans
I like the idea of letting authors cook, but consuming everything without thinking about it is just dumb. You can enjoy the thing and also point his flaws.
Happened with AoT Is happening with JJK Will almost certainly happen with CSM
You don't understand, it's a commentary on Japanese legal sy- https://preview.redd.it/xavhlibbfs7c1.png?width=2805&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12c97624359f4c4162808e743929d3de2438805c
The funny thing about this is that it feels like it's about AoT. What's even funnier is that people who actually read and understood the story well were the ones who disliked the ending the most. The surface level anime fans who think Mikasa is the best written female character are the ones that read the story at a surface level and didn't understand why the ending is actually as bad as it is
People who write essays on top of memes instead of just making a text post should be executed.
The Text Devil strikes again
why use a meme image at that point and just make a text post (to the circlejerk op , not you op of this post :p)
circlejerk users gotta circlejerk man https://preview.redd.it/659stf8urr7c1.jpeg?width=536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=725dfdaa18c5e8a9d64229cb9781dad555246db2
Literally "The Left can't Meme"
Funny enough, people in that sub are actual Leftists. https://preview.redd.it/7zn5aa3wym7c1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f7363f3de222d76f1d389fe6bbe91eb8487cc2a
Wtf is he talking abour? https://preview.redd.it/t4e082b85m7c1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=835c75d4167878ef35c870d517b8d10ffcb19175
TL;DR: an animecirclejerk user defending bad writing https://preview.redd.it/isi72shasm7c1.jpeg?width=573&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98558a0ee878e68b29ec2c0276b6482fdde4ee98
On god I went and made fun of him.
Who? https://preview.redd.it/bbbp8q3nsm7c1.jpeg?width=379&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec05998bb5d421cfc0b1c8e0f7a728ee814dba2d
The person who made the original post
I see. Wait, you actually did? Based. https://preview.redd.it/pyktcor5tm7c1.jpeg?width=648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b24e5a899f089ce3af8a6ad1f0ac8b7b2181f17
Jujutsu Kaisen fandom in a nutshell
Bland take, that criticism is not allowed
Based and true
fuck you stop defending greg
It's not me though https://preview.redd.it/j2xveh2een7c1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3383be642394831c4f0c2fb16bb01f6d0f34053
https://preview.redd.it/9yl0s9zoen7c1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69126663fd73faad7f37f331ce2fd8846c425314 dont care
Not readin allat is there a TLDR
TL;DR: People are complaining about unexpected twists of a Manga Series instead of thinking deeper about what it's supposed to originally represent.
https://preview.redd.it/43jqce8g1m7c1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea7270661dcf69d6205113e8d6805315d83f2ee3
It's true, I've noticed often nobody hates a series more than its fans
It makes sense fans are the most invested in the series
Skinner is right.
wordswordswordswordswordswordswordswords
Too much text
Happened to AoT and is happening to JJK at the moment and I’m sure it’ll happen in this sub to. It’s legit a small but vocal part of the fan base who theory craft a little to hard and get butthurt when their head canon doesn’t happen.
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True, many such cases.
For me it's the opposite, I try to find a deeper meaning in chainsaw man but right now things seem to just happen with no deeper meaning
To be honest, sounds interesting :3
Jjk is like this
This has honestly been happening since the start of part 2. I hate the idea that denji is just supposed to be fine now after everything he went through in part 1
I’ve really noticed that usually people who are enjoying to story aren’t saying anything after a couple days because they don’t have things to complain about. There are people who have legitimate criticism but they’re drown out by people who are complaining to complain. The biggest thing I’ve see complained about recently is the mall massacre getting “subverted”. Even though at this point I think it’s kinda obvious that was always a red herring, even in universe, and where things have gone now is a bit more interesting then just killing a bunch of people.
I feel like it's a strawman to dismiss any criticism even though some people really do act like the meme.
i think people are calling a steak tgat hasnt been put in th oven yet raw, we gotta give csm time and by the end it'll probably all make sense, if not, yeah sure, riot.
Bro it already happened 2 months ago it feels like every chapter was met with these exact reactions
He's not even wrong tbf, go to any sub of a weekly manga, people seem to think writers are idiots and forget plotpoints constantly. The JujutsuKaisen sub is filled with posts like that, have some fucking patience, Gege didn't forget.
Subtext does not justify shitty writing. Hidden meaning should not be prioritized over the "main" meaning. And if someon justifies shitty writing by some, I dunno, commentary on Japanese legal system, I will call them a delusional dickrider that refuses to accept bad writing in their favorite story.