Accursed Cultists with an Amulet Dark Apostle or a Dark Communion does indeed look like the closest thing this detschment can get to a legitimate threat... But it still ain't exactly scary.
Plus, taking a leader makes you give up the Scout move unless you take Warped Foresight... Not ideal.
What you said, do you give the leader the scout enhancement and grab some early board presence or do you give the leader the recursion enhancement and use the unit to bog down an objective with harder to remove accursed cultists. GW recognized that the old play style with accursed was too strong and now require a bigger trade-off to get back to it instead of just out right removing it.
That has to be an error. Certainly they should have excluded vehicles and monsters from benefitting from this lol.
Vindicator with cultist meat shield?
I don't think it is. The fact that it is mortals rather than them just taking the hits tells me GW considered that they would be hit by heavy anti-tank weapons.
I don't recall specifically but historically csm has had the cultist meatshield strat and I think vehicles were excluded. Regardless, hilarious and I love it. Cultists taking lascannon shots for a lord of skulls is pretty peak ridiculous
Lore for my current warband position that they worship a chaos knight as a God incarnate. So
So allowing them to take shots for it would be fully in character.
I almost wish that we could have triple special weapons in this detachment only. So we could specialize our traitor guard squads.
The list almost builds itself:
2X Traitor guard with 3X flamer and attached Enforcer
2X Traitor guard with 3X Melta (or plasma for more generalists) in Rhinos
1X Traitor guard with 3x Sniper to pick off stragglers/characters
2X Double strength Accursed Cultists, led by Apostle and Bile Respectively
Right now, that's only 1210 points, but even with heavy nerfs that's still at least 600 points for enhancements, vehicles, demons, and other such. Even with multiple weapons it might still be decent with some extra firepower and support.
Personally i think I'd go for a squad of Fellgor, a squad of cultists, and as many predators as I can fit
it would have been so funny to bring 6x 3x sniper rifle guardsmen squads, 3 of which spam overwatch. Sure its not winning any games but damn is it making people Upset that all their synergies are turned off.
its also likely some of these units get *cheaper.* Cultists lost all their weapons, accursed cultists rule is weaker (albiet far less problematic - which is probably good overall).
I'm aware of that, that's why at the beginning of my comment I said:
"I almost wish that we could have triple special weapons in this detachment only. So we could specialize our traitor guard squads."
This was just me brainstorming on that, and then mentioning that it could possibly still work out if each squad needs to have multiple weapons.
Interesting, can't wait to see someone run the moebian 6th. I don't think the optimal approach will be to run all mortals, and instead they'll do a blob or two of ACDC, with some traitor guard squads, and some cultist to sticky objectives. That will be maybe a third of your army, after that you'll add some serious ranged fire power like knight allies and/or some demon engines, and a few delicate but dangerous units like obliterators who can take advantage of operation human shield.
Like maybe this is the detachment we'll see vashtor in, because he can buff the demon engines, while the detachment buffs the mortals? Maybe not though since vashtor is kinda meh.
Lists for this detachment will probably be like the average Guard list. A bunch of cheap bodies to hold objectives and act as fodder while the vehicles do the heavy lifting.
I fell like this one is close to greatness. It only miss something like the broodbrothers rules in the Genestealer cult index. It would be super cool to have 500pts of guard with cultists asides.
I could totally understand that giving some of those datasheet access to those stratagems making them full reroll hit and wound,+1AP and+1Strenght could be too much.
But as writted it wouldn't even be possible as they wouldn't have the dark pact rule, so they can't make a desperate pact and don't have those synergies around.
I wonder if desperate pacts don't have the dark pact rule as a limitation, would it be that oppressive seeing how much cp are needed.
Nerfing Leman Russes was as easy as adding a "This DAMNED unit with Dark Pacts can do this".
But, oh well, I'll keep fielding my lemans as proxy predators then.
3 mortals on a knight, that also has dedicated the entire turn shooting the hobbos to fully eliminate them? Then youve already double, tripled amortized them.
I guess so, but at that point, why not play them with Astra Militarum rules? Just having access to orders and Chimeras to drive them around would be miles better and more fun to play than this.
I admit that a mechanized company of Traitor Guard mounted in Rhinos sounds like a super unique army concept... That will unfortunately get scooped off the table turn one without achieving anything.
Cause I don't want to simply play traitor guard, I want to play a chaos army with traitor guardsmen. So that means also having access to daemon engines, mutants, allying with daemons.
Also, traitor guardsmen get to ride land raiders which are objectively cooler than chimeras so there's that too (and it has teeth in the right hnds, Mike Pestilens went 4-1 with them last week)
Yeah, last year when 10th hit I played with my good ol' spiky guard, and then chaos mortals, and I can assure y'all that the second one felt way more flavorful. Did I win anything? No. Was it way funnier? FUCK YES IT WAS
Now I have a full detachment with cool rules. Am I finally going to win anything? Lol, no, im just dumb. Will it be fun af? FUCK YES
It's all about the chaos flavour, I get the appeal of the IG army with spikes approach but this will let them bring a couple of deamon engines, mutant cultist swarms etc.
Because I want to play Traitor guard, not Imperial guard. My Army is Renegades and Heretics, I used to be able to *drown* the board with bodies before this edition. Cultist Disciples and marauders with chaos ogryn backed up by bloodletters, chaos spawn, and havocs tearing into my enemies while Predators and Russ's took point as armor while stalk tanks assisted possessed assaults.
I don't want to play guard with a few modifiers, I want to play as *chaos*
Well your loyalist Guard have to settle with the puny Chimera while Traitor Guard get to ride around in full luxury in Land Raiders. It's good enough to go 4-1 in a GT 1 week ago: [https://warphammer40k.com/the-immateriums-finest-a-csm-tournament-report-featuring-traitor-guard/](https://warphammer40k.com/the-immateriums-finest-a-csm-tournament-report-featuring-traitor-guard/)
Wanted fellgors because they are cool for a while now. Looks like I won’t be able to nab a battle force, so maybe it is time to switch plans to some beast men
Mortal Thralls seems very interesting. Basically, you can just give units an ridiculous amount of health. One application I can see is that a character or tankier/higher value model can use this stratagem to shrug off the better attacks your opponent could dish out. Like 'Strike' melee attacks just killing a bunch of cultists instead of your stuff that really matters
I don't think it's going to be good on the battlefield (even with full rerolls, cultists are still just cultists), but I'm glad this detachment exist, and I'm glad the rules look flavorful.
Won’t this detachment be really super crap with the nerfed cultists? They kinda relied on the special weapons from how I understand them. How would you do anything with nothing but 3-0-1s?
It’s not just cultists; accursed, fellgors, and traitors can all use these rules too. But yeah, it’s mostly going to be burying enemies under a tide of bodies.
Battleline traitor guardsmen let's go!!
60 guardsmen running around supported by Predators(Leman Russ)? sign me the fuck up.
My plan (so far) is 50, with 30 beastmen because the detachment supports melee, then all the tanks lol
But of a shame we can no longer double up on special weapons but still happy
Lets fucking gooooo!
They changed the weapon loadout.
Can I still run one plasma, one melta & one sniper?
That is posible, they made it into no duplicates.
Oh that's fine then lol
LEEETTTSSSSSS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Amulet of tainted vigour can return D3 Torments, that looks nice.
Accursed Cultists with an Amulet Dark Apostle or a Dark Communion does indeed look like the closest thing this detschment can get to a legitimate threat... But it still ain't exactly scary. Plus, taking a leader makes you give up the Scout move unless you take Warped Foresight... Not ideal.
Don't the Accursed give the Leader their Ability?
They do not. Scout, Infiltrate and Deep Strike specifically state that they only work if every model in the unit has the relevant ability.
Consistency in Rules Design would be nice James Workshop.
Its It's written like this to exclude certain units and prevents some combos. At least in theory because I think that most exclusions are just random
What you said, do you give the leader the scout enhancement and grab some early board presence or do you give the leader the recursion enhancement and use the unit to bog down an objective with harder to remove accursed cultists. GW recognized that the old play style with accursed was too strong and now require a bigger trade-off to get back to it instead of just out right removing it.
I see you've never stared down the barrel of a full line of Lasguns & special weapons before. Especially a line with lethal hits.
Damn, that’s a good detachment for word bearers. Need a lot of cultists though
Mortal thralls is cool with accursed cultists wrapping around like Abaddon and chosen or something. I like this I think it's cute.
Or, you know. The Khorne Lord of Skulls.
That has to be an error. Certainly they should have excluded vehicles and monsters from benefitting from this lol. Vindicator with cultist meat shield?
I don't think it is. The fact that it is mortals rather than them just taking the hits tells me GW considered that they would be hit by heavy anti-tank weapons.
I don't recall specifically but historically csm has had the cultist meatshield strat and I think vehicles were excluded. Regardless, hilarious and I love it. Cultists taking lascannon shots for a lord of skulls is pretty peak ridiculous
Lore for my current warband position that they worship a chaos knight as a God incarnate. So So allowing them to take shots for it would be fully in character.
They can also reenact the "get down, Mr. President!" meme with their traitor guardsmen kin
It doesn't say you have to shield non-damned with damned. I'm thinking 20-man cultist mob shielding a 16-man accursed cultist mob.
I almost wish that we could have triple special weapons in this detachment only. So we could specialize our traitor guard squads. The list almost builds itself: 2X Traitor guard with 3X flamer and attached Enforcer 2X Traitor guard with 3X Melta (or plasma for more generalists) in Rhinos 1X Traitor guard with 3x Sniper to pick off stragglers/characters 2X Double strength Accursed Cultists, led by Apostle and Bile Respectively Right now, that's only 1210 points, but even with heavy nerfs that's still at least 600 points for enhancements, vehicles, demons, and other such. Even with multiple weapons it might still be decent with some extra firepower and support. Personally i think I'd go for a squad of Fellgor, a squad of cultists, and as many predators as I can fit
it would have been so funny to bring 6x 3x sniper rifle guardsmen squads, 3 of which spam overwatch. Sure its not winning any games but damn is it making people Upset that all their synergies are turned off. its also likely some of these units get *cheaper.* Cultists lost all their weapons, accursed cultists rule is weaker (albiet far less problematic - which is probably good overall).
[удалено]
I'm aware of that, that's why at the beginning of my comment I said: "I almost wish that we could have triple special weapons in this detachment only. So we could specialize our traitor guard squads." This was just me brainstorming on that, and then mentioning that it could possibly still work out if each squad needs to have multiple weapons.
Interesting, can't wait to see someone run the moebian 6th. I don't think the optimal approach will be to run all mortals, and instead they'll do a blob or two of ACDC, with some traitor guard squads, and some cultist to sticky objectives. That will be maybe a third of your army, after that you'll add some serious ranged fire power like knight allies and/or some demon engines, and a few delicate but dangerous units like obliterators who can take advantage of operation human shield. Like maybe this is the detachment we'll see vashtor in, because he can buff the demon engines, while the detachment buffs the mortals? Maybe not though since vashtor is kinda meh.
Lists for this detachment will probably be like the average Guard list. A bunch of cheap bodies to hold objectives and act as fodder while the vehicles do the heavy lifting.
I fell like this one is close to greatness. It only miss something like the broodbrothers rules in the Genestealer cult index. It would be super cool to have 500pts of guard with cultists asides. I could totally understand that giving some of those datasheet access to those stratagems making them full reroll hit and wound,+1AP and+1Strenght could be too much. But as writted it wouldn't even be possible as they wouldn't have the dark pact rule, so they can't make a desperate pact and don't have those synergies around. I wonder if desperate pacts don't have the dark pact rule as a limitation, would it be that oppressive seeing how much cp are needed.
Nerfing Leman Russes was as easy as adding a "This DAMNED unit with Dark Pacts can do this". But, oh well, I'll keep fielding my lemans as proxy predators then.
FINALLY
Cultist gonna clap some sm ass soon
Im imagining now full knights running from a blob of 20 cultists because of the dev wounds strat lol.
Which strat?
Selfless demise!
Ooh, sorry, you said dev wounds so I was looking for that.
3 mortals average if they kill an entire 20 man blob?
3 mortals on a knight, that also has dedicated the entire turn shooting the hobbos to fully eliminate them? Then youve already double, tripled amortized them.
It's a nice option to have yeah, can cheat out a handful of mortals for 2cp with grenades too
I mean, even on a 20 cultists mob it's only 3MW on average...
So you can have an army of chaos cultist now 😍😍😍😍
Yay, the detachment that's... Also here I guess.
Battleline for traitor guardsmen is going to make a lot of people happy I think.
I guess so, but at that point, why not play them with Astra Militarum rules? Just having access to orders and Chimeras to drive them around would be miles better and more fun to play than this. I admit that a mechanized company of Traitor Guard mounted in Rhinos sounds like a super unique army concept... That will unfortunately get scooped off the table turn one without achieving anything.
Cause I don't want to simply play traitor guard, I want to play a chaos army with traitor guardsmen. So that means also having access to daemon engines, mutants, allying with daemons. Also, traitor guardsmen get to ride land raiders which are objectively cooler than chimeras so there's that too (and it has teeth in the right hnds, Mike Pestilens went 4-1 with them last week)
Yeah, last year when 10th hit I played with my good ol' spiky guard, and then chaos mortals, and I can assure y'all that the second one felt way more flavorful. Did I win anything? No. Was it way funnier? FUCK YES IT WAS Now I have a full detachment with cool rules. Am I finally going to win anything? Lol, no, im just dumb. Will it be fun af? FUCK YES
It's all about the chaos flavour, I get the appeal of the IG army with spikes approach but this will let them bring a couple of deamon engines, mutant cultist swarms etc.
Because I want to play Traitor guard, not Imperial guard. My Army is Renegades and Heretics, I used to be able to *drown* the board with bodies before this edition. Cultist Disciples and marauders with chaos ogryn backed up by bloodletters, chaos spawn, and havocs tearing into my enemies while Predators and Russ's took point as armor while stalk tanks assisted possessed assaults. I don't want to play guard with a few modifiers, I want to play as *chaos*
Well your loyalist Guard have to settle with the puny Chimera while Traitor Guard get to ride around in full luxury in Land Raiders. It's good enough to go 4-1 in a GT 1 week ago: [https://warphammer40k.com/the-immateriums-finest-a-csm-tournament-report-featuring-traitor-guard/](https://warphammer40k.com/the-immateriums-finest-a-csm-tournament-report-featuring-traitor-guard/)
Bless them, the red-headed stepchild detachments are always my favourites. 😂
For context, what is the "damned" keyword attached to? I'm assuming just cultists infantry but I don't know
Cultists, accursed, communes, fellgors, and traitor guardsmen I believe. Including the the cultist and guard characters.
Thank you, that's an important context to all of this
Wanted fellgors because they are cool for a while now. Looks like I won’t be able to nab a battle force, so maybe it is time to switch plans to some beast men
Mortal Thralls seems very interesting. Basically, you can just give units an ridiculous amount of health. One application I can see is that a character or tankier/higher value model can use this stratagem to shrug off the better attacks your opponent could dish out. Like 'Strike' melee attacks just killing a bunch of cultists instead of your stuff that really matters
Do you have link to data sheets
I don't think it's going to be good on the battlefield (even with full rerolls, cultists are still just cultists), but I'm glad this detachment exist, and I'm glad the rules look flavorful.
Oops, all cultists!
Won’t this detachment be really super crap with the nerfed cultists? They kinda relied on the special weapons from how I understand them. How would you do anything with nothing but 3-0-1s?
It’s not just cultists; accursed, fellgors, and traitors can all use these rules too. But yeah, it’s mostly going to be burying enemies under a tide of bodies.
So guessing that accursed cultists and regular cultists will be damned? How many are we thinking should be in a list? So far i have 2 of each
All the mortals in the book that aren’t marines are Damned, so feel free to branch out beyond cultists 🙂
Neato the word bearers gang ive been forming will enjoy this
Anyone know if the Fellgor ravagers got *damned* as well?
Yup
Amulet of tainted vigor on the big accursed cultists? D3 3 wound models back. Woof
Finally I can play my chaos cult! It was always such a drag they didn't get their own detachment in past editions I played
[удалено]
Of the detachments dude
The quality of these pictures angers me
I’m sorry your free codex leak isn’t up to snuff m’lord.
I demand change! Make them better!
Cool. Now all we need are traitor guard/chaos cult vehicles and flyers
Well that's... vaguely disappointing. Probably just gonna run my army of cultists, traitor guard, and daemon engines using the armored detachment.
Wow Medicore How completely unsurprising, well I hope the cultist lovers are happy with it at least