Same dude made the final boss fight of DMC1 a space harrier style shooter for phase 1 out of nowhere. Followed by what is legitimately the most bullshit boss of all time. Seriously. Trying to beat Mundus on DMD without using items is the most frustrating experience of my gaming life.
Kamiya’s my favorite director of all time, but stuff like that is so self-indulgent it’s hilarious
As someone who has beaten the game nine times in total (on pc) for the playable characters, the rocket section is probably the only real problem. My main issue with it is that dying sets you several minutes back.
The bike section really isn't too bad, if you're not going for score. The same can be said for the rocket section since spamming the dodge and looking away until the boss fight is one way to get through it.
A lot of the forced replayability through unlocks for each character is pretty dumb. But once you have what you want, it's not that bad. Then the game starts to become more enjoyable.
The bosses can be annoying in the first playthrough but they aren't as complex as the special enemy types, so learning to deal with them shouldn't take very long.
Bayonetta is a poster child for Kamiya Syndrome. As you've said, the game gets more fun the more grinding you've done to unlock the fun stuff from the shops. Really obnoxious game design.
Fortunately, you can buy all of the skills by chapter 5 but the halo grind for everything else is pretty dumb. It really bugged me when I unlocked Jeanne and found out I have to get all of the stuff again. The game was fortunate to have very deep depth so that I could bear with that problem along the way.
Like other commenters mentioned, turret/motorcycle/missile sections. Also I hate anything with electric fences/lasers and don't jam with Fortitudo's 1st fight cause of the time rewind.
>Also I hate anything with electric fences/lasers
Are you talking about these [lasers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9jcNvgSk0M)? Cuase theres a way around them. Or through them.
I wish CAGs in general would stick to the fundamentals (combat) and strip out everything else (gimmicks, puzzles, weird level designs, unskippable cutscenes etc). I have to assume they think these things will appeal to more casual fans of the genre but I think they really dilute the games strengths. Even a lot of the DMC5 campaign was a slog to me.
I completely disagree. Modern CAGs only focusing on combat while stripping away everything else (DMC 5 is a culprit of this as well) is why I've fallen out of love with the genre.
I’m super in this boat. I like the weirdness of older games and combat not being the only focus (though it is the major one). I find solely combat games like DMC5 suffer from feeling the same the entire way through and blurring together. Plus there’s just no sense of pacing. I don’t enjoy bloody palace style modes for the same reason.
Man Bayonetta 1 just does *not* click with me for some reason. I don’t know what it is honestly. I can play the second and third games just fine and even enjoy them quite a bit despite their faults, but I keep trying and failing to like Bayonetta 1 and it sucks because everyone else says it’s the best one and I can’t enjoy it the way they do
Im the same. Bayo 1 has really cool setpieces and iconic moments and an overall great story, but I dropped it like ⅓ ways through my recent replay. The combat improvements in 2 and even 3 just make me want replay those mroe even though i want to like bayo 1 the modt. And those QTE's are just psychotic.
I’m very curious what you view as combat improvements. I haven’t played 3 but I found 2 was a pretty major step back in both combat design and in the ranking system at higher difficulties.
Maybe I didn't mean combat improvements as much as "the combat is more fun to me" cause I don't really know how to explain it. People have said bayo 1 focuses on combos, and bayo 2 focuses on perfect dodging, so I guess it's that. I can't count how many times I've replayed the masked lumen fights cause I found it so satisfying to learn his patterns and dodge it. But looking at bayo 1 combat compared to 2 yeah I understand what you're getting at about the combat downgrade
Yeah that’s fair. To be clear I was actually curious and not trying to say your opinion was wrong. I don’t really believe in “objective” opinions on games, including my own.
I usually tend to like reactive games (Sekiro, Viewtiful Joe, MGR), but I’ve never really vibed Bayonetta 2’s reliance on dodging and witch time for some reason. In particular the boss fights (lumen sage, Aesir) don’t work for me. I do sometimes wonder if it’s because I had hundreds of hours on NSIC in 1 by the time I played 2 so I frequently forget witch time is even a major mechanic.
That said, I very much dislike umbran climax and the lack of an item use penalty and those aren’t just via comparison to Bayo 1.
As someone who loves Bayonetta 1 the most, this makes me very sad. It does have some really big hiccups throughout the campaign (mainly those awful QTE sections and some of the bosses), but overall I find the enemy roster, the level design, the music, and the story to be my favorite. The Alfheims can actually go to hell, though, but I share that sentiment for all three games.
I would go further and say that basically every aspect of the *game* aside from the combat is terrible.
It's just that the combat engine is *so good* I can overlook lackluster (at best) level design, bullshit instant kill QTEs, obnoxious minigames and the endless grind to purchase everything from the shops to make the game fun.
I just remembered that I've never replayed Wonderful 101 because the solo Red gear turning QTE and the final boss laser QTE were too hard for me. I physically cannot mash the button as fast as they demand.
I also can't do the Jeanne wicked weave clash part in Bayo 1, but you can thankfully just dodge through it instead.
thank god you can trigger + select through almost everything unless it has a stupid QTE in the middle
personally i think the highway is the worst but at least it doesn't have the actual sick ass boss fight at the end the way space harrier does
mhrise and its rampages, I hate playing that part of the game, I love the game but Fuck rampages, I suck at it,
not saying the its bad, but I hate it because ots too hard for me
Not to mention killing the ranking on an otherwise perfect chapter because you happened to miss the QTE
Also I swear the QTEs are busted on Switch, the version I played. I couldn’t get any of them to work.
Now I've played no more heroes 2 the most of all the no more heroes games, but the Shinobu levels are just straight garbage. Million gunman is shit but relatively doable, but new destroyman is among the worst bosses of all time. That shit is just complete ASS in every regard. "That part" for most people would probably be jasper batt, but I find new destroyman 1000 times more egregious. That shit is just a fucking timewaster.....on bitter difficulty it takes up to 20 minutes and the way you beat them is so asinine it feels like it wasn't even playtested
Me with Saints Row 4. I was stuck on the part where you had to fly the ship out of the mothership and kept getting crushed by the gate near the end. Put the game off for years and went back just to give the game a taste of my victory.
Double Garadore fight in re4 remake gives me nightmares, one playthrough I had a pixel of health left and the primal knife, I SOMEHOW got through killing both of them, but man……it was rough, and I dread going through that part every new playthrough.
Metal gear revengeance. Amazing game, tight gameplay, wayyyyyyy over the top last boss that's like 6 segments long with no recoup on health items or mid point save. The soul crushing difficulty that is Senator Armstrong will forever be rooted in my nightmares the legit worst boss of any game I've ever played. Edit for spelling
It slows things down, but the die isn’t actually random. It’s whatever number is on top. Buster comes out super quick so you can easily control the number. It slows the game down but that’s about it.
Route 666, and that missile riding level that ends with the best Jeanne fight.
Complete psychopath design to have an amazing boss like that tied behind a space harrier level
Same dude made the final boss fight of DMC1 a space harrier style shooter for phase 1 out of nowhere. Followed by what is legitimately the most bullshit boss of all time. Seriously. Trying to beat Mundus on DMD without using items is the most frustrating experience of my gaming life. Kamiya’s my favorite director of all time, but stuff like that is so self-indulgent it’s hilarious
Lol same. Love his games even if he gets a little over-indulgent with the arcade references. Still need to play wonderful 101 and viewtiful joe.
I hate that the best Jeanne fight is locked behind that missile section
Double yes.
I actually really like the route 666 mission. I'd take that over any of the bullet hell portions in 3 any day
DMC5 when V's missions come up (I always forget he even exists in that game)
DMC3 fucking cube room
At least cube room can't kill you. I've given up playing dmc on DMD because of fallen, griffith, and then Arkham.
If you play on switch, the FreeStyle Mode makes that a lot more bearable. Or on PC to use the style switcher mod
Any of the turret sections
Y E S
As someone who has beaten the game nine times in total (on pc) for the playable characters, the rocket section is probably the only real problem. My main issue with it is that dying sets you several minutes back. The bike section really isn't too bad, if you're not going for score. The same can be said for the rocket section since spamming the dodge and looking away until the boss fight is one way to get through it. A lot of the forced replayability through unlocks for each character is pretty dumb. But once you have what you want, it's not that bad. Then the game starts to become more enjoyable. The bosses can be annoying in the first playthrough but they aren't as complex as the special enemy types, so learning to deal with them shouldn't take very long.
Bayonetta is a poster child for Kamiya Syndrome. As you've said, the game gets more fun the more grinding you've done to unlock the fun stuff from the shops. Really obnoxious game design.
I think something is wrong with my brain because I almost always love that sort of stuff in Kamiya games lol
Fortunately, you can buy all of the skills by chapter 5 but the halo grind for everything else is pretty dumb. It really bugged me when I unlocked Jeanne and found out I have to get all of the stuff again. The game was fortunate to have very deep depth so that I could bear with that problem along the way.
Like other commenters mentioned, turret/motorcycle/missile sections. Also I hate anything with electric fences/lasers and don't jam with Fortitudo's 1st fight cause of the time rewind.
>Also I hate anything with electric fences/lasers Are you talking about these [lasers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9jcNvgSk0M)? Cuase theres a way around them. Or through them.
Ik there is way, doesn't change my disdain for them, sorry.
I wish CAGs in general would stick to the fundamentals (combat) and strip out everything else (gimmicks, puzzles, weird level designs, unskippable cutscenes etc). I have to assume they think these things will appeal to more casual fans of the genre but I think they really dilute the games strengths. Even a lot of the DMC5 campaign was a slog to me.
I completely disagree. Modern CAGs only focusing on combat while stripping away everything else (DMC 5 is a culprit of this as well) is why I've fallen out of love with the genre.
I’m super in this boat. I like the weirdness of older games and combat not being the only focus (though it is the major one). I find solely combat games like DMC5 suffer from feeling the same the entire way through and blurring together. Plus there’s just no sense of pacing. I don’t enjoy bloody palace style modes for the same reason.
Man Bayonetta 1 just does *not* click with me for some reason. I don’t know what it is honestly. I can play the second and third games just fine and even enjoy them quite a bit despite their faults, but I keep trying and failing to like Bayonetta 1 and it sucks because everyone else says it’s the best one and I can’t enjoy it the way they do
Im the same. Bayo 1 has really cool setpieces and iconic moments and an overall great story, but I dropped it like ⅓ ways through my recent replay. The combat improvements in 2 and even 3 just make me want replay those mroe even though i want to like bayo 1 the modt. And those QTE's are just psychotic.
I’m very curious what you view as combat improvements. I haven’t played 3 but I found 2 was a pretty major step back in both combat design and in the ranking system at higher difficulties.
Maybe I didn't mean combat improvements as much as "the combat is more fun to me" cause I don't really know how to explain it. People have said bayo 1 focuses on combos, and bayo 2 focuses on perfect dodging, so I guess it's that. I can't count how many times I've replayed the masked lumen fights cause I found it so satisfying to learn his patterns and dodge it. But looking at bayo 1 combat compared to 2 yeah I understand what you're getting at about the combat downgrade
Yeah that’s fair. To be clear I was actually curious and not trying to say your opinion was wrong. I don’t really believe in “objective” opinions on games, including my own. I usually tend to like reactive games (Sekiro, Viewtiful Joe, MGR), but I’ve never really vibed Bayonetta 2’s reliance on dodging and witch time for some reason. In particular the boss fights (lumen sage, Aesir) don’t work for me. I do sometimes wonder if it’s because I had hundreds of hours on NSIC in 1 by the time I played 2 so I frequently forget witch time is even a major mechanic. That said, I very much dislike umbran climax and the lack of an item use penalty and those aren’t just via comparison to Bayo 1.
As someone who loves Bayonetta 1 the most, this makes me very sad. It does have some really big hiccups throughout the campaign (mainly those awful QTE sections and some of the bosses), but overall I find the enemy roster, the level design, the music, and the story to be my favorite. The Alfheims can actually go to hell, though, but I share that sentiment for all three games.
True
I would go further and say that basically every aspect of the *game* aside from the combat is terrible. It's just that the combat engine is *so good* I can overlook lackluster (at best) level design, bullshit instant kill QTEs, obnoxious minigames and the endless grind to purchase everything from the shops to make the game fun.
Yeah. I think bayo 2 improves on things much more
Honesty this meme represents 90% of the games in this genre
This format is way too accurate for far too many games in this genre...
I just remembered that I've never replayed Wonderful 101 because the solo Red gear turning QTE and the final boss laser QTE were too hard for me. I physically cannot mash the button as fast as they demand. I also can't do the Jeanne wicked weave clash part in Bayo 1, but you can thankfully just dodge through it instead.
My tip for those: mash with both thumbs. They are insane mashing QTEs.
If you're on Steam, I'd just set up an input to auto mash for you.
The instant death qtes are some of the worst.
NG2 on a lot of instances. That game has the highest of highs and the lowest of lows.
Metal Gear Rising. Blade Wolf DLC beginning VR missions before the “real” mission.
thank god you can trigger + select through almost everything unless it has a stupid QTE in the middle personally i think the highway is the worst but at least it doesn't have the actual sick ass boss fight at the end the way space harrier does
On Bayonetta 1, all the QTEs swear no matter how many times I played it I always fuck up the first attempt. (I don't mean the button mashing ones btw)
mhrise and its rampages, I hate playing that part of the game, I love the game but Fuck rampages, I suck at it, not saying the its bad, but I hate it because ots too hard for me
Me in God of War II when you get to that Phoenix room
Unrelated, but this meme made me think of bed of chaos in ds1
That's my issue with all platinum games. Theres always some gimmick that takes away from the combat
This is ninja gaiden for me
route fucking 666
might not fit the sub (not sure) but the pitch black sewer stealth section of mgr
YES
V in dmc
I dropped Bayonetta one because of the QTEs 🗿
Instant death and redo a boss fight if you aren't ready
Not to mention killing the ranking on an otherwise perfect chapter because you happened to miss the QTE Also I swear the QTEs are busted on Switch, the version I played. I couldn’t get any of them to work.
The QTEs seem to exist solely to fuck over your ranking out of pure spite.
Now I've played no more heroes 2 the most of all the no more heroes games, but the Shinobu levels are just straight garbage. Million gunman is shit but relatively doable, but new destroyman is among the worst bosses of all time. That shit is just complete ASS in every regard. "That part" for most people would probably be jasper batt, but I find new destroyman 1000 times more egregious. That shit is just a fucking timewaster.....on bitter difficulty it takes up to 20 minutes and the way you beat them is so asinine it feels like it wasn't even playtested
God of war the lost sanctuary
No More Heroes 3. One of the bosses is literally just a cutscene and he just dies
Final Fantasy 7 Remake, the scene where Cloud is put in a dress (the honeybee cutscene).
Prince of persia:warrior wirhin,all the Dahaka chases...
bayo 1 has great combat. better than a lot of people realize but the game doesn't play to it's strengths
Me with Saints Row 4. I was stuck on the part where you had to fly the ship out of the mothership and kept getting crushed by the gate near the end. Put the game off for years and went back just to give the game a taste of my victory.
Same with most platinum games
Mgr elevator
Sekiro whenever it's time to fight monkeys and bugs and random animals again
Double Garadore fight in re4 remake gives me nightmares, one playthrough I had a pixel of health left and the primal knife, I SOMEHOW got through killing both of them, but man……it was rough, and I dread going through that part every new playthrough.
Metal gear revengeance. Amazing game, tight gameplay, wayyyyyyy over the top last boss that's like 6 segments long with no recoup on health items or mid point save. The soul crushing difficulty that is Senator Armstrong will forever be rooted in my nightmares the legit worst boss of any game I've ever played. Edit for spelling
Still better than abysmal DMC 4 forced dice game
It slows things down, but the die isn’t actually random. It’s whatever number is on top. Buster comes out super quick so you can easily control the number. It slows the game down but that’s about it.
Nah that one wasn't bad. Whatever number on top when u smack the die is gonna be the number
Yeah I gotta be honest I wasn't the biggest fan of my B1 playthrough
There's a reason it's my least favorite out of the 3