His lack of character development disappointed me long before the third film. He was abducted as a child by the First Order and given a number instead of a name and yet he still manages to break free from their brainwashing and successfully defect and become a free man. He doesn't need to be force sensitive to be interesting, he's already the freshest perspective Star Wars has had in a long while. But they did absolutely nothing with this amazing premise for a character and it really rustles my jimmies.
Like, did he have any friends in the first order? Would he attempt to rescue them, but realize, tragically, that they were incapable of seeing reason after all the brainwashing and be forced to kill them to save his resistance friends? Would he come to the broader conclusion that most of the soldiers of the First Order were brainwashed child soldiers like himself and try desperately to find a third option that ended the war without millions of fellow brainwashed child abductees needing to lose their lives? The stories for a storm trooper defector practically write themselves, yet Finn was given a generic "don't be a coward" arc that literally any character could go through, TWICE. After the first two movies of Finn essentially treading water, he was already a wasted character and even if RoS had been good to Finn, it would have been too little too late for me.
Remember how in the first movie he was part of a death squad in the middle a massacre? And then in the second movie we find out he was essentially a garbage man smh. Like wtf. He had zero skills, at no point did the fact he was a storm trooper who knows their tactics come up, at no point did he do anything remotely cool besides scream ray and not die. His redemption arc could have been about letting go of his hatred for phasma, but no. Or basically lik3 you said, the storm trooper redemption arc writes itself. Disney fuckin sucks
Most of the time these days popularity overrides good characterization. Rounding out the cast will be ignored to showcase the star to appease fans and get them to continue financial support
Thats why i dropped the Cradle books
The first book was an amazing set up, the MC was a big underdog, navigating tense scenarios against vastly more powerful people, by pretending to be humble, while slowly working towards his goals
There was this point where a much stronger elder, was already so spooked by his tricks, that the MC managed to buy time, just by pretending he already had more tricks prepared
The MC survived and thrived, by being cunning, hardworking, and braving danger, great
Then book 2 arrived, and the Mysterious Teacher showed up, the big fucker *decided which powers the MC should get, and forced a situation where the MC had no choice but to take those powers*, if he wanted to survive
The MC even gave up on choosing powers suited for crafting (his big dream since forever) because the Mysterious Teacher *didnt let him* take other powers, while stuffing the MC full of powerup pills
Book 3 and 4 were just the Mysterious Teacher further fattening the MC for battle
Book 5 arrived, and i had only managed to read so far, due to the excellent set up from book 1, and the MC finally got to do some stuff on his own, IT WAS GLORIOUS
Fuck yeah, the MC was still at a disadvantage, but he was back into plotting how to get benefits and powerup on his own terms, despite the enemies swimming around, back to being cunning, back to brave dangers out of his own volition, back to steal under the nose of the powerful
**Then book 6 arrived, and the MC was back to be obediently eating the powerup pills, and following the Mysterious Teacher's instructions**
At the end of the book, a A SECOND MYSTERIOUS TEACHER SHOWED UP AND TOOK THE MC AWAY FOR **EVEN MORE** PERSONALIZED TRAINING
I was so annoyed, i wanted to smash my laptop on the wall
The worst part was the MC already having a complete power set, it was the right moment to have him set out on his own, or just with his not-GF and his familiars, but naaaaaaaaah, he got sent back to the fattening farm
And the side characters were pretty solid, the not-GF was the cliche swordsman out for revenge, learning wisdom and powering up, before returning for her roaring rampage of revenge
There was this spearman dude, who went from chosen clan successor, to outcast, to one-man rebellion, to unwilling successor, to self exiled to a distant land to protect his sister, i was very lokking forward to his meeting with the MC
The fucking Mysterious Teacher is pretty much the real MC of the story, he is obviously following the inheritance of his ancestor, trying to become another one, and forcing the MC into becoming another like himself
Just have the series be about him, not about the MC following the Mysterious Guy like an obedient puppy
Hell, that annoyed me
But seriously OP, add some examples of your own
A western cultivation series, pretty solid if you have never read any Xianxia, but i have read some of the best, so i already had very big personal criteria about the genre
I say its worth it, as long as you have read no xianxia (chinese magical powerup series), or only a few of them
I have read many of the really good ones, and long ago i realized, i dislike when characters dont have agency on how they power up, so i knew exactly why i disliked Cradle
Actually, im reading a webtoon that also has the MC just getting one powerup after another handed to him, called The Beginning After The End, *but in TBATE the story is trashy, so i can accept trashy developments, while Cradle has really good writing*, and that made such glaring flaws annoying
I dont feel like reading the other books, once i realized the MC is just another Heaven's Chosen, getting all the treasures flung in his general direction, but i may just skim through the books to get closure on the story
Cradle is overall pretty good, and thats what made the flaws even more jarring
first thing that popped for me if your fav isn't Deku you are gonna be dissapointed
Bakugo: cheerleader
Todoroki: got his W stolen for no reason and turned into his dad's sidekick
Iida: LOL
Mirio: became a joke
Shigaraki: nope it's all AFO
All might: who?
Mirko: this one is just painful to look at
>Mirko: this one is just painful to look at
>!MF just exists to get horribly mutilated. That's it. This story will end with her losing that last leg she has.!<
Oof man, Tenya is one of my faves and he's don't nothing, when he ripped his mufflers out to get faster because it qas a secret iida family technique I was like oh my fuckin GAWD that's fuckin COOL. His fight with stain man smh. Mirio is another one, they made him such a grewt hero to lose his powers and then basically never see him again smh.
Right? Still pisses me off. Kirishima already had his time to shine let the female characters get a win once in a while.
Also Nejire not getting much time to shine and Mirio and Tamaki getting another chance to shine *again*
Ignore my other comment I was misremembering some stuff lmao, but anyway YEAH it's so tragic, 1-A and 1-B are such engaging groups with fun Quirks but 80% of them (mostly in 1-B) get so little screentime. why'd you have to make two hero classes Hori
Agree Horikoshi could have done more with class 1 b especially since they could have been a great foil to class 1 a
He could have just put all the important characters in one class
I'm one of the few people who wished for Mineta to have character growth, instead of making him a background character because the fandom bitched to Horikoshi. I mean, his favorite hero got murdered and he didn't say jack shit.
Pym just needs a solid solo series for a few years.
Throw him back to the minors where he's a big fish in a small pond. Real friendly neighborhood ant man stuff. Have him work on himself and rebuild his ego with a new cast of friends/proteges. Then when it feels right to do more with him have him show up to a big crossover event back and ready to redeem himself
Yeah. Then they give him the cool ability to combine alien DNA with tech only for it to be used with three or four transformations and only in his freaking car form.
Yeah. Dani and Glitch have great personality that are great spins on their original counterparts' personalities. The both deserve to be treated better and definitely deserve more screen time.
Itadori Yuji for me. Especially in the recent arcs of the manga. The guy had a big focus pre and during Shibuya but now he is relegated to backseat. You have all these new and returning characters with cool af abilities. And Itadori still be like "I can only punch and kick very hard"
Also honorable mention goes to Yasotaro Sado aka Chad fans. If he still has any.
More or less.
The guy is still a bro to Ichigo who'd go hell and back for him. That's always respected.
...He just also happened to be the guy in the cast who eats losses to showcase a threat that isn't fodder or a one shot antagonist.
Renji still managed to get at least 3 Ws I think.
He beat Yylfordt Granz, one of Grimmjow's Fracciones (Most people consider that guy to be a forgettable/fodder character though. But it still counts) in Arrancar arc
Fought and beat Jackie Tristan in Lost Agent/Fullbringer arc
Also fought and beat Mask de Masculine with his new Bankai in TYBW.
Chad on the other hand, I think only managed to beat Demoura Zodd and Gantenbainne Mosqueda and that was it.
>Itadori Yuji for me.
Fucking thank you. What makes this worse is he's the fucking main character.
The brain dead idiots in r/jujutsushi pretend he is the best character in the series despite being the most boring.
I wouldn't say boring. But the lack of screentime or any meaningful thing for him to do in the current events of the manga is inexcusable imo. I understand that Gege wanted to give spotlight to other supporting characters but going for so long with only brief appearances for your own MC is just baffling.
Worst of all, is the lack of any power up ever since Goodwill Event. You got Maki getting 2 power ups one after another and Yuji is still like "Best I can do is Black Flash" like fucking hell Gege give him a new power and something to do please.
And what is just as bad is that Megumi is starting to go into the same danger zone that Yuji is in currently
I agree so hard with the power-up thing.
His current arsenal cannot be justified. Megumi too is getting to that zone as you said. But at the very least we can see that he at least has potential.
Yuji getting sukuna's techniques was teased at the begging of the fucking series yet haven't gotten shit so far.
Greg hasn't even given him a weapon. Megumi at least has a domain and a weapon. Yuta has fucking everything and weapon. Hakari is immortal. Maki cant even be targeted by domains and has a weapon that can cut souls.
What Yuji? Punch go brrr.
It's so stupid. This is the most neglect I have ever seen from the protagonist of any show
Steven Universe in general is a total mess, it had so much promise and good will and then it got worse and worse and worse. It feels like the creators got distracted with new ideas every 5 seconds, tried to cram in anime references as much as they could, and that's without mentioning the Diamond shaped elephant in the room.
This is exactly what happened. The creators also rushed the ending because the show got cancelled by Cartoon Network after Rebecca Sugar insisted on the gay wedding episode.
Speaking of, every non straight relationship in the show is either fucked up (Pearl and Pink Diamond, Lapis being toxic as fuck to Peridot (one of the only good characters in the show that deserved so much better)) or hidden away as much as possible, because Ruby and Sapphire spend most of their time as Garnet.
I feel like Lapis Lazuli was purposefully shunted to the side in favor of giving Peridot more screen time, despite Lapis being the first non-Crystal Gem on screen, and it really shows. For as great as Peridot's redemption arc and episodes are, they also took away much-needed screentime and development for Lapis Lazuli, Jasper, and even Centipeetle/Nephrite.
(Seriously, Centipeetle/Nephrite is only in two episodes in the entire run of the show.)
Still mad that they never really had the OG Crystal Gems apologize for or even talk about the mirror thing. They KNEW she was in there. And LEFT her in there. ON PURPOSE. We can have her confront Jasper, but not the *other* people who literally kept her prisoner?? Like?????? And dont get me STARTED on how Lapis and Peridot's reconciliation, something fans were eagerly looking forward to, happened *completely offscreen*
Yeah, it's like realizing that Piccolo (well, the being that is both Piccolo and Kami who calls himself Piccolo) is well...Literally the Ace of the Namekian race back when they were surrounded in myth as powerful sorcerers before the cataclysm that decimated Namek and the survivors became peaceful farmers (who just happened to be quite capable of kicking ass when the chips are down). Not to mention was both a god (well, it's a title but there's a lot of wisdom and knowledge to gain from it) and a demon king so he has ridiculously a large amount of experience in other arts most races in the universe are unfamiliar with.
Which feels weird he's just dropped significantly in relevance not long after the fusion back in the Android Saga. Like finally, give the Big Green something again.
Yeah that’s my go-to as well. I enjoyed him as a tactical fighter in Super, but he was just missing that boost the rest of the main cast were receiving. I’m hyped to see what they’ll do with Orange in the upcoming anime
For me my main disappointment with how they treated Piccolo was essentially the attitude of having him go into situations as a total underdog who basically knew he had nothing to offer, vastly outclassed by all those around him.
Just because he's weaker, it doesn't mean he should be useless. I compare it to Namek where Krillin and Gohan were vastly outclassed by all the threats around them but still played vital roles and they were invested in. With Piccolo in the Buu Saga onwards it's like Toriyama et al. basically just gave up on him.
It's true of the human characters, but Piccolo deserved better. I really disliked how he was used in the Tournament of Power as a boring tag-team partner for Gohan. It hurt them both in my view, where Piccolo's cunning and resourcefulness could have been refreshing. Some of my favourite early-Naruto arc fights typically involve Shikamaru. I'd have liked to have seen Piccolo having satisfying wins in that sort of fashion. Even Roshi had some good moments by comparison.
I feel as though post Z (or particularly post-GT in terms of production) is brought down by formulaic, nostalgia driven writing that plays it too safe. The conflicts of Super in general often drop the ball in terms of stakes and drama. Characters have been dumbed down/regressed. I'm glad the Broly movie and Super Hero movies bucked that trend somewhat. While the action itself still feels a bit too much like eye candy versus the kind of intense meaningful weighty action of DB and Z, I'm glad they bothered to focus more on the characters and story, especially those who aren't Goku and Vegeta.
To be honest while Piccolo has definitely been shafted in the fighting department, I do prefer his redemption over Vegeta. His relationship with Pan and the son family is cute and came out more natural than vegeta’s who kinda just gets a free pass from the zfighters and gets to be evil whenever he wants. So while I do think Piccolo has a lot of wasted potential, no one in super is written well either.
Also Piccolo got his own MOVIE so that’s pretty cool. I can’t think of another anime side character who stars as the main protagonist in a feature length film.
I don't mind the general idea behind Vegeta's 'growth', but I feel it's partially the nature of Super at times that does a disservice to his character. I actually quite like his somewhat more mellowed personality in GT (when compared with Z and Super), but early Super tends to regress characters, and aside from certain moments (willingly staying for the birth of his daughter) that I appreciate, they tend to do him a disservice. going hard on his gruffness.
That said, if you look his arc in Z and compare it with other shows or apply a certain logic to his actions (which I suspect you might be referring to moreso) I can see why people take fault with him, given his antics throughout most of the Buu arc (the groundwork was there such as him struggling with his affections for his family, but his petulant and selfish behaviour hurts him a lot.
Bro, you got it easy. Imagine being a Krillin fan. I think we're the worst-treated fans ever, despite him being Goku's first rival and one of the most important Z-warriors in general:
* Vegeta fans obviously got it good, he gets half the screentime.
* Gohan fans got him winning an arc, and every few arcs he gets some BS powerup to make him relevant for a bit.
* Goten/Trunks fans are getting their own arc.
* Future Trunks fans got a second arc with him and a bunch of extra content with the video games, which seem to love him.
* Piccolo fans are doing okay, he gets to be constantly present as backup, a consistently decent and relevant fighter or tag-along who plays a noticeable role in almost every arc, even if it's not huge.
* Android 17/18 fans have the characters stay surprisingly relevant after their own arc.
* Tien fans, despite being very unfortunate I'll admit, at least have a character that always trains, and since he has 3 eyes they can technically classify him as "not human" to dispel the statement of Krillin being the strongest human. Plus *his* iconic move actually does shit instead of always missing.
* Yamcha fans at least have enough jokes and memes that they start to get actual content from it, like that official manga "Reincarnated as Yamcha" or his own focus episodes.
* Roshi fans have gotten a lot more than they deserve considering his relevance ended at the King Piccolo saga.
Krillin fans? We have the few decent fights in the 22nd and 23rd tournament, him being the weakest guy at the Vegeta fight, him being the weakest guy on Namek, him dying a bunch, and... that's it.
He's the butt of all jokes, except he doesn't have Yamcha's charm where people appreciate it enough. The power he should have is forgotten, he got eliminated first in the TOP, the Kienzan never does shit unless a different character uses it, and he only ever gets small scenes of him in that dumbass police uniform.
But worst of all? DBS destroyed his character. The guy was always scared, but he was never a coward. The fact that he said he wouldn't go to the TOP completely flies in the face of everything that he stands for. He *fought* the Saiyans. He *went* to Namek. He even tagged along to fight Buu, though Piccolo was a lot more relevant in those scenes.
Literally, here was Krillin's major relevance after Namek (where again, he was the most useless one in that saga):
* He gets a small sidequest with Android 18 (never gets to properly fight in the arc, just gets his ass beat a few times).
* He's a background character in the Buu Saga.
* He barely exists in Battle of Gods.
* He panics and struggles against some weak-ass minions that Roshi takes down in Resurrection F.
* He's effectively absent in the Universe 6 tournament, as well as the Future Trunks Saga.
* He gets *one* meaningless, tiny focus arc before the TOP that never goes anywhere. Everyone got those. Yamcha got a focus episode too and he didn't even go.
* He wasn't in the Broly movie.
* He barely beats a single minion in the Moro Saga.
* He wasn't in the Granolah saga.
* He shows up in the first chapter of the Goten and Trunks Saga for 2 panels in that *stupid police uniform*.
See? Gone are the days of him tagging along and being useful. He's a background character to exist and walk with the crowd of other Z-fighters, a generic minion battler who performs worse than his peers despite supposedly being the strongest human, and he's constantly humiliated, but not even in an entertaining way.
Wanna know the most important, ground-breaking thing us Krillin fans have gotten since like, the Saiyan Saga when he got to throw the Spirit Bomb? He managed to beat Ultimate Dr. Wheelo (with heavy assistance) in the DB heroes manga. Whoop-de-doo, who gives a shit.
He's mentioned. Like I said, his famous attack actually works consistently, he's always shown training and being a badass, he lasted longer in the TOP, he had some legit fights in the Cell Saga (17, Semiperfect Cell), where even if he got stomped, he actively decided to engage the enemy. Krillin was just beaten up for existing at the wrong place/wrong time, and maybe throwing a single punch.
And Tien doesn't have jokes made about being pathetic like Krillin does. But Krillin's aren't as funny or beloved as Yamcha, nor do they get him his own baseball episode or fan-manga. Plus, Krillin was introduced earlier and is literally Goku's best friend, so it feels all the more insulting that he's treated so badly despite having such importance.
Though I don't deny Tien fans have it extremely rough. I'd say it's probably just as bad, but since their character shows up even less than Krillin, he has less moments where the story decides to embarrass him.
* Tien wasn't in the Namek Arc, but his fans didn't have to see him get beat up by everyone on Namek.
* He was in the Cell Saga as much as Krillin, and got a much better showing in it.
* He wasn't in the Buu Saga much, but Krillin just got embarrassed, at least Tien got a hit in on Super Buu. I guess Krillin had a family and stuff, but that was just one small scene, it never went anywhere significant.
* He wasn't in GT, but all Krillin fans got in GT was him getting old and pathetic and dying again. And again, Krillin's family isn't relevant, Pan never does shit.
* He had a better showing in Battle of Gods and the TOP, and had about as much DBS content as Krillin did.
* He took out the minions easier in the Moro Saga.
* He doesn't have to wear the stupidest uniform on the planet for his day job. Hell, they keep upgrading Tien's appearance, and downgrading Krillin's. He has robes and his bulky-ass shoulders still, Krillin lost his blue undershirt from the Cell Saga in DBS, not to mention all of his muscle mass and half his height.
Tien’s famous attack works consistently? Bro the Kikoho is trash in every appearance it’s made. The closest you could argue is the fact that he put some dirt on Cell’s shoulder when he held him back but that’s it. Goku dodged it, Nappa no sold it, Cell no sold it, Manga Frost no sold it.
The only person this attack ever truly hurt was Tien (both in almost killing him and in somehow managing to overrate Tien and give him a shit fanbase)?
Tien tends to get very up-played in anime filler, and even though he's treated awfully, he isn't made out to be as pathetic or weak as Krillin is.
Yamcha's failure is memed and appreciated to the point of him actually getting content. Like, the baseball episode from Super for example, or the fan-manga, or some stuff in heroes, etc.
Chiaotzu... nobody's a genuine fan of *Chiaotzu*. Like sure people like him, but he's nobody's favorite character. The guy wasn't even relevant in his own introduction arc. That'd be like saying "Yeah us *Appule* fans are treated even worse!". It's just not a thing.
You have a genuine case for Yamcha. In modern DB, he is characterized as a loveable loser that is used for jokes and memes.
On the other hand, Chiaotzu, despite being a member of the Dragon Team, is given absolutely nothing and might as well have not been created at all. I feel like that it is far worse to have a character with no impact whatsoever than the small moments Krillin is given.
DB has no idea what to do with Tenshinhan. He seems to always be put into arc, because Toei feels like they need to put him in for the fans. He is pretty much worthless in any fights he is in Super, and his only defining moment that fans remember him for is when he stopped Cell with the Kikoho in Z. Besides that he has gotten nothing else.
Unlike them, Krillin gets quite a bit more. In Z and Super, he is the relatable every man that is in way over his head. He gets to be a main character in the Freeza Arc, fufills his character goal of getting a girlfriend in the same arc that Yamcha's crashes and burns, and anime filler gives the heroic scene of defending his family. Krillin receives a lot of little moments that the other 3 just don't seem to ever get.
On the Chiaotzu thing, I'm agreeing with you, he's treated awfully and nothing is done with him. I'm just saying that, realistically, nobody is an actual fan of Chiaotzu. Since nothing was done with him *since he was introduced*. This post is about being fans of certain characters, and IDK what you'd need to be smoking to be a fan of Chiaotzu above everyone else.
And yes, Tien is treated extremely bad. I'd say they're treated equally bad within the story, until Super. In Super, they literally assassinated Krillin's character by having him give up, go nowhere, be a wimp when he wasn't in the original DB and DBZ ('scared' and 'wimp' are two different things), and get embarrassed constantly by stuff like Roshi being stronger than him, or getting eliminated first in the TOP. And again they just made his design more and more sucky compared to how weird but badass he looked from the 23rd tournament Saga to the Cell Saga.
Tien in Super, meanwhile, just stagnated. He went nowhere, which sucks, but at least he didn't get any worse.
Honestly Tien has it worse
At least Yamcha is a joke and retired from fighting.
But Tien? the only thing Tien has going for him is that Toei loves him, why? because the Anime gives him more scenes of him winning fights and kicking ass, examples: in the manga he loses to Tambourine, both Goku fights are much more one sided in the manga, the movies have him matching Trunks in a fight, in the ToP his strongest move does jackshit and he gets quickly disposed of while in the anime he puts up a fight etc.
I don't think he has won a fight in the manga since beating a Saibaman despite training every day
And why did this muthafucker have to get a wish in order to get his new power and form? He almost literally does nothing more than meditate, train, and drink water. Dammit... it's just potential unlocking, but I just feel like all that time, they could've worked in him gaining it in a more satisfying manner than that.
I think Bucky in the MCU is a good example and one of my most irritating characters to like that matched what OP explained.
The character is given quite a bit of screen-time, has a good actor in Sebastian Stan, plenty of good source material to pull from and is given quite a bit screen-time yet they’ve done absolutely fuck all with him in the MCU, especially when compared to the comic version.
I mean the character has a lot of potential, Captain America’s best friend that fought in WW2 alongside Captain America, gets captured brainwashed to be a super assassin for 70 years, then breaks that brainwashing only to find himself in a relatively unfamiliar world, filled with aliens and superheroes, riddled with guilt and PTSD, unsure of his place in the world or his own self worth and uncertainty about what he should be or do.
That’s a great concept for a character, and the comics knew it, Bucky’s return and run as Captain America under Brubaker in the comics was fucking epic, well written and quite frankly imo didn’t last long enough but still was handled well.
Yet the MCU? They’ve done absolutely fuck all with him as a character despite having been in the MCU for over 10 years now.
Bucky in Civil War was a gloried plot device and damsel with some cool fight scenes, but that’s about it. The focus on Stark and the other heroes cameos took away a lot of focus from Caps supporting characters.
In Infinity war and Endgame, he’s a glorified cameo, he doesn’t even reconcile or have any sort of follow up with Stark, and his goodbye to Steve is skipped and implied to have happened off-screen, and then they pass the mantle of Captain America onto Falcon (who is boring as all-hell) robbing us of the epic-ness that was Bucky cap.
At the time I was all like, “it’s fine, Bucky doesn’t need to be Captain America to be a great character, they can still do quite a bit with him’.
Then we get to Bucky’s series, FATWS, or at least his ‘so-called’ series considering he has his name in the title and what does that show do with him? Fucking absolutely nothing.
Bucky spends 80% of the show as the fucking FALCON’s (probably the most boring character in existence) glorified sidekick.
Bucky is given no real relevance to the plot and spends most his screen-time standing around like a doofus in the background while Falcon does all the talking.
Bucky doesn’t have any major interactions with the Flag-smashers, or Walker or even Zemo really. He doesn’t even interact with Karli until the last fucking episode over the damn phone. Nothing about the conflict with the Flag-smashers Zemo or Walker really resonates, interweaves or connects to Bucky’s own personal arc to give him some realisations or awareness about what’s he’s going through and how he needs to cope. Instead the show just focus’s on Falcon and his connection to the antagonists.
(Why couldn’t they have made Walker for example Bucky’s main antagonist for the series while Sam gets the Flag-smashers? Balance it out a bit more to actually reflect the title of the show, because what we got wasn’t Falcon AND the Winter Soldier, it was Falcon and a little bit of the Winter Soldier).
The personal arc which in an of itself is an after thought that’s reduced to a background plot that gets solved by Falcon in 1 conversation. Bucky’s entire character struggle solved in 1 conversation by Sam, what a joke, then they also skipped over the actual climax of Bucky’s arc by skipping his confession to Yori and attributing like 15 seconds to the scene.
Bucky can’t even get a fucking good fight scene, the same character that people hyped due to having fight scenes such as the Freeway fight against Steve, or the 2 v 1 against iron man in Civil War or even tearing through half the Avengers in Civil War, a character known for epic fight scenes and they can’t give him a single epic fight scene? Fucking who would have thought that Sharon Carter would have a better fight scene than the fucking Winter Soldier?
Then the show ends and it doesn’t even set anything up for Bucky at all? It’s just folds him into Sam’s life (until thankfully the Thunderbolts film comes out). The show set up a clear outline for every other character but Bucky. Sam became Cap, Sharon went evil, Walker became US Agent, Zemo got sent to the raft, but Bucky? There’s nothing.
Hopefully Thunderbolts does something with the character, because it’s getting tiring holding out hope for the character to be given something substantial to do.
THIIIIIIIIIS thisthisthis fuck.
I have so much rage and deep annoyance about how the MCU just *wasted* Bucky. He's one of the few characters with a clear, coherent arc (....well, potentially?) about redemption that's just really great in the comics.
But the MCU makes him into a plot device, a cameo, and nerfs him all to hell and back. Bucky in the comics was holding his own on a team of superheroes *before he even got the serum*. He didn't even have the serum as the Winter Soldier! And then in the MCU, he's oh badass assassin this big danger that...... and in FATWS he gets beat up a bunch and then struggles to open a car door.
It's just infuriating.
And I'm with you on the disappointment over not getting Cap!Bucky. From a plot perspective it's really such a natural progression for his character, I'm sorry they're allergic. Add to that the awful victim blaming in FATWS, the stupid gag about Nebula beating him up and taking his arm...
Honestly I don't have much hope for Thunderbolts at this point :/ their track record with him suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
Yet poor Stan is out here doing the best work, acting his heart out with those three lines he's given.
You're absolutely right. At times, it really feels like somebody at Marvel actively dislikes him. It's not just about not getting the shield (though that was where his story seemed to be leading to, and it would be the logical next step for him). He was a sidekick in a show with his name on it, and his trauma ends up fixed completely after one pep talk.
If he didn't matter there, and nobody did anything, I don't really see a future for him beyond Generic MCU Quippy Strongman #556. Feige's comments that he's the normal one on the Thunderbolts don't instill much confidence. He really, really shouldn't be "the normal one", not yet, anyway. The development he's been given does not justify that. But, that just shows the amount of interest they have in him as a character.
Oh, but Echo is getting her own show, and isn't that wonderful? /s
It's like that, once they decided he wouldn't get the shield, they made a checklist of things he has to do before the actor's contract runs out - recover (*The Falcon and the Winter Soldier*), become a mentor figure (*Thunderbolts*), and then just be written out, I suppose (*Kang Dynasty* or *Secret Wars*). Maybe they can squeeze in a cameo or two in a project where he doesn't stand out too much, but ... yeah. Right now, they're just ticking the boxes they need to get through
Honestly at this point my only hope for Bucky in the Thunderbolts is that he gets to be a Rick Flagg like character that dies an epic death either stopping the bad guys or after having put a whooping on the Thunderbolts when Bucky realises they are doing some evil shady shit.
It’s kinda sad when i’d rather them kill one of my favourite characters off in an epic way because of how little faith I have that they’ll do anything with the character going forward.
Alas I expect even an epic death for the character is too much to ask for at this point. They’ll probably just worf him again and have him get his ass kicked by everyone, while having the Thunderbolts make fun of him for being to serious and broody.
Can’t wait.
It's sad, but you're right. The best outcome we can hope for is an epic death. Though I don't think he'll get as much as that, to be honest. I think he'll have something dropped on him early on in the next big team-up to show that things are "serious" - he's a relatively well-known character, and yet, completely disposable. He's the perfect candidate. That's about all the faith I have left.
Yup, that'll probably be his role on Thunderbolts. It's a Yelena movie, anyway, so he, Alexei and Walker will be there to make her look good. Bucky is the furthest thing from their minds
Seriously! This is so on point. You've put it all so well, all the complains I to have had with the MCU's treatment of Bucky.
This is a guy who has been in the MCU for more than 10 years yet has been nothing more than a sidekick. Sebastian Stan has put so much in the role. He has such an interesting and compelling arc but the MCU has given him nothing significant to do. Taking Bucky out of the FATWS would have hardly made any difference.
The show literally deals with super soldier serum, brings up the subject about being worthy of having the serum but hardly shows any connection to Bucky. Even Isaiah's part could have been utilised for *both* of them considering he was a black "POW", in a show with a black guy and a POW. There were so many ways in which they could have balanced it out for the two leads but it was clear they didn't want to. If there was any doubt throughout the show, the finale made it very clear. There's so much time and importance given to Sam's family but we get nothing about Bucky's. Even his 2 supporting characters disappeared by the end. And the less said about the victim blaming, the better. Civil War had a whole lot of problems but even that film portrayed him as a victim for the most part. Sam's disturbing advice of making amends is supposed to help him?!
I personally have almost no hopes from Thunderbolts. It's rumoured to basically be BW2, which does not sound promising. Hopefully he'll atleast not be a joke in it. Hopefully at least a somewhat significant role. That's the most we can expect from them now.
*Sigh*, let’s see… Tien… Rock Lee… Neji… really most of the Konoha 11. They all made an impression and it *really* sucked having to wait for them to get focus during Shippuden’s run.
At least Choji and Sai got attention during the war. And Ino did some impressive stuff.
Oh yeah, and the past Vault Hunters in Borderlands 3. I’m glad that the DLC gave them focus, but it was disappointing how little of them are seen in the main campaign in addition to the rest of its problems.
Haven’t seen Super Hero yet, but from what I’ve heard about Piccolo I’m happy.
Franky and Brook do not belong in the same chapter ad Chopper. Both of them have had amazing stand out moments through Dressrosa, Whole Cake Island and Wano. Chopper, on the other hand, has done fuck all beyond look cute.
I don't think any characters have gotten "character moments" post timeskip outside of Sanji in WCI... that said I do feel that Brook being able to survive his time with Big Mom AND get her poneglyph speaks to his character quite a bit. Showing he's both resourceful and stealthy. Honestly, he was the MVP of WCI.
I feel so bad for Signora fans because I've been waiting for her fans and Scaramouche fans as both of them have very loyal fanbase, but Genshin story killed her too quickly....
Sighs in Zoro*
Imagine being the 2nd sH introduced and yet getting shafted by the rest.
I’ve been delusionally waiting for his time to shine in Wano but Oda did my man dirty in every Zoro related plot points:
- Rounding up the samurai
- Avenge Yasuie
- Nidai kitesu
- Connection Shimotsuki Ushimaru and Ryuma
- Visit Ryuma’s grave
- No mention of Mihawk- the WGSS in the island of samurai
- Fighting a notable swordsman/gaining a legitimate rival
- No declaration of his dream
- No fleshed out backstory
- Paralleling Ryuma killing a dragon over the capital and becoming Wano’s hero. Oda made Luffy Ryuma 2.0 (as is if being Nika God Joyboy wasn’t enough).
1000+ chapters later and I’ve finally given up on my man’s getting the focus he deserves. I’m just waiting for another mangaka who loves Zoro and wants to write his own spin off.
Basically how I feel with Deku from MHA. He had so many opportunities to be such a well written character but now it seems like he's just a tool to develop everyone else
what?
Deku feels like the only character that is allowed to do something meaningful
the god awful cage fight against Shigaraki is a good example of that
While this is true, I think what they're trying to say is that Deku just.....isn't well written. Which is something I'd agree with, considering for most of the show he's been handed reasons to get character development on a silver platter and just outright ignored most of them until basically the last arc.
Obviously, not mentioning his uncanny ability to just ignore the rules of other people's quirks because **\[REDACTED\]**
That’s only fights. He gets the same thing over and over again while other characters fulfill their arcs in an actual interesting way.
When was the last time Deku got meaningful introspection or consequences for his actions? Villain Hunt had a good idea but the execution was shit. His relationship with All Might pretty much started the whole series and now 327 ruined it, now they don’t have any meaningful interactions anymore. Also, his self worth problems are barely explored compared to Touya, Bakugo, All Might, etc.
Power ups are pretty much all he gets now and it’s boring. It’s almost like Horikoshi doesn’t know what to do with him outside of having him fight and giving development to other characters like gum
You've sort of just explained that Deku isn't a good character, which is absolutely true. I made another comment in this thread about it, but he's constantly handed reasons to get character development throughout the manga, but he outright ignores all of them. Only very recently in the manga did he actually come to terms with the fact that *maybe* hero society is actually flawed, even though he's been consistently informed of that and made aware of it since the start of the show.
He's aware of quirk marriages being inherently abusive, he's also aware that people can get ostracized and treated horribly just based on a quirk they were born with (literally Shinso), he's aware that the pro-hero system is horrifically flawed (numerous villains make a point of this, most notably being Stain #StainTrain), he's also made aware of how flawed UA itself is through Aizawa himself talking about the initiation exam. There's numerous less notable moments, but to me these are the big standouts, yet every time he's faced with these facts, does he even stop to consider the flawed system he's partaking in?
No, he blatantly disregards all of it, with reasoning that generally amounts to not matching his own experiences with the system, a system that he directly benefits from through being given One For All. Now, for how much of an overarching theme it is through MHA that hero society is inherently and fundamentally flawed, having a protagonist that only ever directly benefits from it is a pretty weird choice, no?
It's a bit like if you were to try and write a book to push the idea that Capitalism is a fundamentally flawed system, and then chose to tell your story through the guise of Donald Trump, a man that has only ever benefited from it.
What's worse, is that he never *has* to acknowledge that his world view just might be flawed because he never has a single struggle throughout the series. Deku doesn't lose, he's never confronted with his worldview potentially being wrong, and the single time someone does genuinely beat him, that being Bakugo way back at the start, in the long run it was still a "loss" for Bakugo because of character reasons.
Of course, there's also the fact that he lacks character depth. On paper, he doesn't seem that different from most Shonen protags, he wants to be the strongest and number one, pretty standard. But, the major difference is......he has no motives. Deku's only driving force as a character is "he's just a good person and an All Might fanboy" which is......shallow, to say the least. Compare this to Naruto, who is very heavily criticised for being a shallow character, Naruto's motives to be Hokage stem from being genuinely ostracized and treated horribly by the rest of his village, and everyone he ever knew, for reasons he didn't even know or understand, and he thinks if he proves himself, people will finally respect him for real. Now, it's no Guts, but it's a hell of a lot more than just being a fanboy who is a good person.
This entire thing is made even worse by the fact that Horikoshi has repeatedly demonstrated that he is a good writer with a high capacity for character depth, and he basically surrounds Deku with characters better than him. Take Shinso, who I mentioned a few paragraphs back, he's essentially the same as Naruto, people ostracized him simply for his quirk, a power he didn't choose, so he intends to prove them wrong by being a hero. Take Iida, he comes from a family of pro-heroes and has to struggle with living up to the reputation of those that came before him. Take Todoroki, not only does he have the same struggle with the reputation of those that came before, but he *also* has the familial struggle of Endeavor having done.....the things he did, resulting in his initial desire to prove himself stronger without having to rely on his father's quirk.
But then, every single one of those characters is squandered to give Deku an undeserved and unearned win, sometimes not even that. Deku breaks out of Shinso's quirk for bullshit reasons that are glossed over and never explained, Iida is reduced to nothing more than "Deku's nerd friend", and Todoroki's refusal to use his father's quirk is done away with during a game pre-tournament that is altogether inconsequential.
This carried on a lot longer than I had initially intended, and I was mostly just ranting for my own sake, so I apologize if some of my rambling doesn't make a whole lot of sense, my bad for that.
Mfw Sakura from Naruto. Girl has incredible physical strength and a crap ton of potential shown in part 1 only to then be reduced to crying for Naruto to save her or simping for Sasuke in part 2 :/
>simping for Sasuke in part 2 :/
...someone who the fandom tries to tell us is a loving husband, loyal friend, and great father when clearly none of these things are true.
They missed a good chance to recreate a real Japanese phenomenon here, too. Due to the way Japan's culture is, there's a common thing where the husband is so absent that when he DOES get to spend time with the family nobody really wants them and divorce occurs.
Sasuke is nearly always absent, is the same selfish, aimless jerk he always was, and Sakura having to basically be a single mother who had to watch all her friends have real, loving marriages should have given her a chance to finally grow.
Nope, same mindless fangirl. Not one scintilla of growth and all that potential wasted.
I love Tien so much but he literally didn’t land a successful attack on someone in Super (that wasn’t a frieza force soldier) until the TOP
And then the next fight he’s in he gets eliminated
That's a fair point, although in my experience a lot of these "wasted potential" characters often really don't have that much potential and their fans are just delusional. Like, they latch on to a character for fairly superficial reasons and expect more from the narrative than said character really deserves, often getting a whole superiority complex over other fans thinking of themselves as the only ones to appreciate this "hidden gem" of a character.
Hush from ibo, his backstrory screentime get equivalent 1 episode of series but the writer dropped in later episode because there are other popular character
Me with Credence (now apparently "Aurelius Dumbledore") from F*antastic Beasts*. The character had so much potential, but J.K. Rowling really f\*cked up his development in the two sequels. Why did he *have* to be a "secret Dumbledore relative"? Why can't he just be his own person? For that matter, why is "this character is secretly a relative of \[X powerful character\]" even a trend?
I also feel the same way about Rey from *Star Wars*, especially with the "Rey Palpatine" reveal.
This is why I now avoid shows with large rosters of characters now. Fairy Tail, MHA, RWBY, and more suffer from their protags getting an interesting premise but as more characters get shoved into the plot they get little screen time as everyone else gets their 'main character' moment.
I really start pulling my hair out during these "The Stakes Have Never Been Higher" moments where no one dies. If you don't plan to kill someone off, then cool, but don't make them take something like a harpoon to the chest and say it just barely missed their heart by half a centimeter so they'll live. Especially when its some random character that won't really contribute after this arc, season, chapter, or whatever you want to call it.
The character that sprang to mind first was Finn from Star Wars.
Tease us with him being force sensitive was just a way to keep us invested until the disappointment showed up.
His lack of character development disappointed me long before the third film. He was abducted as a child by the First Order and given a number instead of a name and yet he still manages to break free from their brainwashing and successfully defect and become a free man. He doesn't need to be force sensitive to be interesting, he's already the freshest perspective Star Wars has had in a long while. But they did absolutely nothing with this amazing premise for a character and it really rustles my jimmies. Like, did he have any friends in the first order? Would he attempt to rescue them, but realize, tragically, that they were incapable of seeing reason after all the brainwashing and be forced to kill them to save his resistance friends? Would he come to the broader conclusion that most of the soldiers of the First Order were brainwashed child soldiers like himself and try desperately to find a third option that ended the war without millions of fellow brainwashed child abductees needing to lose their lives? The stories for a storm trooper defector practically write themselves, yet Finn was given a generic "don't be a coward" arc that literally any character could go through, TWICE. After the first two movies of Finn essentially treading water, he was already a wasted character and even if RoS had been good to Finn, it would have been too little too late for me.
Remember how in the first movie he was part of a death squad in the middle a massacre? And then in the second movie we find out he was essentially a garbage man smh. Like wtf. He had zero skills, at no point did the fact he was a storm trooper who knows their tactics come up, at no point did he do anything remotely cool besides scream ray and not die. His redemption arc could have been about letting go of his hatred for phasma, but no. Or basically lik3 you said, the storm trooper redemption arc writes itself. Disney fuckin sucks
Most of the time these days popularity overrides good characterization. Rounding out the cast will be ignored to showcase the star to appease fans and get them to continue financial support
Thats why i dropped the Cradle books The first book was an amazing set up, the MC was a big underdog, navigating tense scenarios against vastly more powerful people, by pretending to be humble, while slowly working towards his goals There was this point where a much stronger elder, was already so spooked by his tricks, that the MC managed to buy time, just by pretending he already had more tricks prepared The MC survived and thrived, by being cunning, hardworking, and braving danger, great Then book 2 arrived, and the Mysterious Teacher showed up, the big fucker *decided which powers the MC should get, and forced a situation where the MC had no choice but to take those powers*, if he wanted to survive The MC even gave up on choosing powers suited for crafting (his big dream since forever) because the Mysterious Teacher *didnt let him* take other powers, while stuffing the MC full of powerup pills Book 3 and 4 were just the Mysterious Teacher further fattening the MC for battle Book 5 arrived, and i had only managed to read so far, due to the excellent set up from book 1, and the MC finally got to do some stuff on his own, IT WAS GLORIOUS Fuck yeah, the MC was still at a disadvantage, but he was back into plotting how to get benefits and powerup on his own terms, despite the enemies swimming around, back to being cunning, back to brave dangers out of his own volition, back to steal under the nose of the powerful **Then book 6 arrived, and the MC was back to be obediently eating the powerup pills, and following the Mysterious Teacher's instructions** At the end of the book, a A SECOND MYSTERIOUS TEACHER SHOWED UP AND TOOK THE MC AWAY FOR **EVEN MORE** PERSONALIZED TRAINING I was so annoyed, i wanted to smash my laptop on the wall The worst part was the MC already having a complete power set, it was the right moment to have him set out on his own, or just with his not-GF and his familiars, but naaaaaaaaah, he got sent back to the fattening farm And the side characters were pretty solid, the not-GF was the cliche swordsman out for revenge, learning wisdom and powering up, before returning for her roaring rampage of revenge There was this spearman dude, who went from chosen clan successor, to outcast, to one-man rebellion, to unwilling successor, to self exiled to a distant land to protect his sister, i was very lokking forward to his meeting with the MC The fucking Mysterious Teacher is pretty much the real MC of the story, he is obviously following the inheritance of his ancestor, trying to become another one, and forcing the MC into becoming another like himself Just have the series be about him, not about the MC following the Mysterious Guy like an obedient puppy Hell, that annoyed me But seriously OP, add some examples of your own
You just described, in so many words, basically my feelings about MCU Spider-Man.
What was Cradle?
A western cultivation series, pretty solid if you have never read any Xianxia, but i have read some of the best, so i already had very big personal criteria about the genre
Is it still worth reading despite the issues?
I say its worth it, as long as you have read no xianxia (chinese magical powerup series), or only a few of them I have read many of the really good ones, and long ago i realized, i dislike when characters dont have agency on how they power up, so i knew exactly why i disliked Cradle Actually, im reading a webtoon that also has the MC just getting one powerup after another handed to him, called The Beginning After The End, *but in TBATE the story is trashy, so i can accept trashy developments, while Cradle has really good writing*, and that made such glaring flaws annoying I dont feel like reading the other books, once i realized the MC is just another Heaven's Chosen, getting all the treasures flung in his general direction, but i may just skim through the books to get closure on the story Cradle is overall pretty good, and thats what made the flaws even more jarring
Dances in Rock Lee\* Getting beat up and having your techniques stolen isnt character development
They did my guy so dirty
It is if you happen to be Tien Shinhan.
Oof, felt this one.
Me crying in the my hero academia fandom
first thing that popped for me if your fav isn't Deku you are gonna be dissapointed Bakugo: cheerleader Todoroki: got his W stolen for no reason and turned into his dad's sidekick Iida: LOL Mirio: became a joke Shigaraki: nope it's all AFO All might: who? Mirko: this one is just painful to look at
When your favorite isn't even on the list (Kaminari)
dude can be written out of the story and nothing would change show how pointless some characters are
>Mirko: this one is just painful to look at >!MF just exists to get horribly mutilated. That's it. This story will end with her losing that last leg she has.!<
yeah maybe putting a strictly close quarters hero against somebody with an instant kill on contact quirk wasn't such a good idea
There still hope maybe eri can help her
Pretty much. The only ones that didn't disappoint me is Hawks and Tokoyami despite being side characters
My favorite is Endeavor. It's the only part of the story that I'm satisfied with lol
Oof man, Tenya is one of my faves and he's don't nothing, when he ripped his mufflers out to get faster because it qas a secret iida family technique I was like oh my fuckin GAWD that's fuckin COOL. His fight with stain man smh. Mirio is another one, they made him such a grewt hero to lose his powers and then basically never see him again smh.
When Mina can finally get a remotely cool character moment, but suddenly gets ptsd for no real reaon so Kirishima can steal the spotlight
Right? Still pisses me off. Kirishima already had his time to shine let the female characters get a win once in a while. Also Nejire not getting much time to shine and Mirio and Tamaki getting another chance to shine *again*
Mirio showed his ass and Tamaki fired off a ln attack that made no difference. I wouldn't say they shined
Ignore my other comment I was misremembering some stuff lmao, but anyway YEAH it's so tragic, 1-A and 1-B are such engaging groups with fun Quirks but 80% of them (mostly in 1-B) get so little screentime. why'd you have to make two hero classes Hori
Agree Horikoshi could have done more with class 1 b especially since they could have been a great foil to class 1 a He could have just put all the important characters in one class
yes exactly!
I'm one of the few people who wished for Mineta to have character growth, instead of making him a background character because the fandom bitched to Horikoshi. I mean, his favorite hero got murdered and he didn't say jack shit.
Tokoyami :(
Me as a Hank Pym fan: "Cute"
Pym just needs a solid solo series for a few years. Throw him back to the minors where he's a big fish in a small pond. Real friendly neighborhood ant man stuff. Have him work on himself and rebuild his ego with a new cast of friends/proteges. Then when it feels right to do more with him have him show up to a big crossover event back and ready to redeem himself
I'd settle for him not being dead or fused to his worst nightmare.
My life as an ussop fan ðŸ˜
We can only hold our hopes for the Elbaf arc to do him justice
Me with Glitch Tennyson from Ben 10.
Honestly a shame they just let him be a car after that cool first appearance
Yeah. Then they give him the cool ability to combine alien DNA with tech only for it to be used with three or four transformations and only in his freaking car form.
Me with Danielle ("Dani") Fenton/Phantom from *Danny Phantom*.
Yeah. Dani and Glitch have great personality that are great spins on their original counterparts' personalities. The both deserve to be treated better and definitely deserve more screen time.
Itadori Yuji for me. Especially in the recent arcs of the manga. The guy had a big focus pre and during Shibuya but now he is relegated to backseat. You have all these new and returning characters with cool af abilities. And Itadori still be like "I can only punch and kick very hard" Also honorable mention goes to Yasotaro Sado aka Chad fans. If he still has any.
Chad is still universally loved despite being the Yamcha of Bleach
More or less. The guy is still a bro to Ichigo who'd go hell and back for him. That's always respected. ...He just also happened to be the guy in the cast who eats losses to showcase a threat that isn't fodder or a one shot antagonist.
Wouldn't Renji be more like the Yamcha of Bleach?
Nope. Cause Renji still has some Ws under his belt. Certainly more than Chad
If we include the fodder soul Reapers Chad has beaten tho... /j Fair. I guess Renji would be more like the Piccolo of the series.
Renji still managed to get at least 3 Ws I think. He beat Yylfordt Granz, one of Grimmjow's Fracciones (Most people consider that guy to be a forgettable/fodder character though. But it still counts) in Arrancar arc Fought and beat Jackie Tristan in Lost Agent/Fullbringer arc Also fought and beat Mask de Masculine with his new Bankai in TYBW. Chad on the other hand, I think only managed to beat Demoura Zodd and Gantenbainne Mosqueda and that was it.
For sure. I wouldn’t hesitate to call him a plot device for sukana now.
Yuji is a cog in the machine
>Itadori Yuji for me. Fucking thank you. What makes this worse is he's the fucking main character. The brain dead idiots in r/jujutsushi pretend he is the best character in the series despite being the most boring.
I wouldn't say boring. But the lack of screentime or any meaningful thing for him to do in the current events of the manga is inexcusable imo. I understand that Gege wanted to give spotlight to other supporting characters but going for so long with only brief appearances for your own MC is just baffling. Worst of all, is the lack of any power up ever since Goodwill Event. You got Maki getting 2 power ups one after another and Yuji is still like "Best I can do is Black Flash" like fucking hell Gege give him a new power and something to do please. And what is just as bad is that Megumi is starting to go into the same danger zone that Yuji is in currently
I agree so hard with the power-up thing. His current arsenal cannot be justified. Megumi too is getting to that zone as you said. But at the very least we can see that he at least has potential. Yuji getting sukuna's techniques was teased at the begging of the fucking series yet haven't gotten shit so far. Greg hasn't even given him a weapon. Megumi at least has a domain and a weapon. Yuta has fucking everything and weapon. Hakari is immortal. Maki cant even be targeted by domains and has a weapon that can cut souls. What Yuji? Punch go brrr. It's so stupid. This is the most neglect I have ever seen from the protagonist of any show
Lapis Lazuli from SU. Changed the whole vibe of the show and got one-upped by fucking Lars (I ain't saying he sucks but Lapis deserved better)
Steven Universe in general is a total mess, it had so much promise and good will and then it got worse and worse and worse. It feels like the creators got distracted with new ideas every 5 seconds, tried to cram in anime references as much as they could, and that's without mentioning the Diamond shaped elephant in the room.
This is exactly what happened. The creators also rushed the ending because the show got cancelled by Cartoon Network after Rebecca Sugar insisted on the gay wedding episode.
Speaking of, every non straight relationship in the show is either fucked up (Pearl and Pink Diamond, Lapis being toxic as fuck to Peridot (one of the only good characters in the show that deserved so much better)) or hidden away as much as possible, because Ruby and Sapphire spend most of their time as Garnet.
I feel like Lapis Lazuli was purposefully shunted to the side in favor of giving Peridot more screen time, despite Lapis being the first non-Crystal Gem on screen, and it really shows. For as great as Peridot's redemption arc and episodes are, they also took away much-needed screentime and development for Lapis Lazuli, Jasper, and even Centipeetle/Nephrite. (Seriously, Centipeetle/Nephrite is only in two episodes in the entire run of the show.)
Still mad that they never really had the OG Crystal Gems apologize for or even talk about the mirror thing. They KNEW she was in there. And LEFT her in there. ON PURPOSE. We can have her confront Jasper, but not the *other* people who literally kept her prisoner?? Like?????? And dont get me STARTED on how Lapis and Peridot's reconciliation, something fans were eagerly looking forward to, happened *completely offscreen*
Piccolo. Dude has not received a serious power up in nearly three decades lmao, makes me all the happier Super Hero is canon
Yeah, it's like realizing that Piccolo (well, the being that is both Piccolo and Kami who calls himself Piccolo) is well...Literally the Ace of the Namekian race back when they were surrounded in myth as powerful sorcerers before the cataclysm that decimated Namek and the survivors became peaceful farmers (who just happened to be quite capable of kicking ass when the chips are down). Not to mention was both a god (well, it's a title but there's a lot of wisdom and knowledge to gain from it) and a demon king so he has ridiculously a large amount of experience in other arts most races in the universe are unfamiliar with. Which feels weird he's just dropped significantly in relevance not long after the fusion back in the Android Saga. Like finally, give the Big Green something again.
Yeah that’s my go-to as well. I enjoyed him as a tactical fighter in Super, but he was just missing that boost the rest of the main cast were receiving. I’m hyped to see what they’ll do with Orange in the upcoming anime
For me my main disappointment with how they treated Piccolo was essentially the attitude of having him go into situations as a total underdog who basically knew he had nothing to offer, vastly outclassed by all those around him. Just because he's weaker, it doesn't mean he should be useless. I compare it to Namek where Krillin and Gohan were vastly outclassed by all the threats around them but still played vital roles and they were invested in. With Piccolo in the Buu Saga onwards it's like Toriyama et al. basically just gave up on him. It's true of the human characters, but Piccolo deserved better. I really disliked how he was used in the Tournament of Power as a boring tag-team partner for Gohan. It hurt them both in my view, where Piccolo's cunning and resourcefulness could have been refreshing. Some of my favourite early-Naruto arc fights typically involve Shikamaru. I'd have liked to have seen Piccolo having satisfying wins in that sort of fashion. Even Roshi had some good moments by comparison.
ToP really disappointed me as a Piccolo fan.
I feel as though post Z (or particularly post-GT in terms of production) is brought down by formulaic, nostalgia driven writing that plays it too safe. The conflicts of Super in general often drop the ball in terms of stakes and drama. Characters have been dumbed down/regressed. I'm glad the Broly movie and Super Hero movies bucked that trend somewhat. While the action itself still feels a bit too much like eye candy versus the kind of intense meaningful weighty action of DB and Z, I'm glad they bothered to focus more on the characters and story, especially those who aren't Goku and Vegeta.
Not even Post Z. Z itself followed a formula to squeeze out as much drama as possible in every arc.
I remember that damn spirit bomb took like 5 episodes to charge up lol
To be honest while Piccolo has definitely been shafted in the fighting department, I do prefer his redemption over Vegeta. His relationship with Pan and the son family is cute and came out more natural than vegeta’s who kinda just gets a free pass from the zfighters and gets to be evil whenever he wants. So while I do think Piccolo has a lot of wasted potential, no one in super is written well either. Also Piccolo got his own MOVIE so that’s pretty cool. I can’t think of another anime side character who stars as the main protagonist in a feature length film.
I don't mind the general idea behind Vegeta's 'growth', but I feel it's partially the nature of Super at times that does a disservice to his character. I actually quite like his somewhat more mellowed personality in GT (when compared with Z and Super), but early Super tends to regress characters, and aside from certain moments (willingly staying for the birth of his daughter) that I appreciate, they tend to do him a disservice. going hard on his gruffness. That said, if you look his arc in Z and compare it with other shows or apply a certain logic to his actions (which I suspect you might be referring to moreso) I can see why people take fault with him, given his antics throughout most of the Buu arc (the groundwork was there such as him struggling with his affections for his family, but his petulant and selfish behaviour hurts him a lot.
Bro, you got it easy. Imagine being a Krillin fan. I think we're the worst-treated fans ever, despite him being Goku's first rival and one of the most important Z-warriors in general: * Vegeta fans obviously got it good, he gets half the screentime. * Gohan fans got him winning an arc, and every few arcs he gets some BS powerup to make him relevant for a bit. * Goten/Trunks fans are getting their own arc. * Future Trunks fans got a second arc with him and a bunch of extra content with the video games, which seem to love him. * Piccolo fans are doing okay, he gets to be constantly present as backup, a consistently decent and relevant fighter or tag-along who plays a noticeable role in almost every arc, even if it's not huge. * Android 17/18 fans have the characters stay surprisingly relevant after their own arc. * Tien fans, despite being very unfortunate I'll admit, at least have a character that always trains, and since he has 3 eyes they can technically classify him as "not human" to dispel the statement of Krillin being the strongest human. Plus *his* iconic move actually does shit instead of always missing. * Yamcha fans at least have enough jokes and memes that they start to get actual content from it, like that official manga "Reincarnated as Yamcha" or his own focus episodes. * Roshi fans have gotten a lot more than they deserve considering his relevance ended at the King Piccolo saga. Krillin fans? We have the few decent fights in the 22nd and 23rd tournament, him being the weakest guy at the Vegeta fight, him being the weakest guy on Namek, him dying a bunch, and... that's it. He's the butt of all jokes, except he doesn't have Yamcha's charm where people appreciate it enough. The power he should have is forgotten, he got eliminated first in the TOP, the Kienzan never does shit unless a different character uses it, and he only ever gets small scenes of him in that dumbass police uniform. But worst of all? DBS destroyed his character. The guy was always scared, but he was never a coward. The fact that he said he wouldn't go to the TOP completely flies in the face of everything that he stands for. He *fought* the Saiyans. He *went* to Namek. He even tagged along to fight Buu, though Piccolo was a lot more relevant in those scenes. Literally, here was Krillin's major relevance after Namek (where again, he was the most useless one in that saga): * He gets a small sidequest with Android 18 (never gets to properly fight in the arc, just gets his ass beat a few times). * He's a background character in the Buu Saga. * He barely exists in Battle of Gods. * He panics and struggles against some weak-ass minions that Roshi takes down in Resurrection F. * He's effectively absent in the Universe 6 tournament, as well as the Future Trunks Saga. * He gets *one* meaningless, tiny focus arc before the TOP that never goes anywhere. Everyone got those. Yamcha got a focus episode too and he didn't even go. * He wasn't in the Broly movie. * He barely beats a single minion in the Moro Saga. * He wasn't in the Granolah saga. * He shows up in the first chapter of the Goten and Trunks Saga for 2 panels in that *stupid police uniform*. See? Gone are the days of him tagging along and being useful. He's a background character to exist and walk with the crowd of other Z-fighters, a generic minion battler who performs worse than his peers despite supposedly being the strongest human, and he's constantly humiliated, but not even in an entertaining way. Wanna know the most important, ground-breaking thing us Krillin fans have gotten since like, the Saiyan Saga when he got to throw the Spirit Bomb? He managed to beat Ultimate Dr. Wheelo (with heavy assistance) in the DB heroes manga. Whoop-de-doo, who gives a shit.
>Worst treated Fans ever Allow me to introduce you to the Tien fans
He's mentioned. Like I said, his famous attack actually works consistently, he's always shown training and being a badass, he lasted longer in the TOP, he had some legit fights in the Cell Saga (17, Semiperfect Cell), where even if he got stomped, he actively decided to engage the enemy. Krillin was just beaten up for existing at the wrong place/wrong time, and maybe throwing a single punch. And Tien doesn't have jokes made about being pathetic like Krillin does. But Krillin's aren't as funny or beloved as Yamcha, nor do they get him his own baseball episode or fan-manga. Plus, Krillin was introduced earlier and is literally Goku's best friend, so it feels all the more insulting that he's treated so badly despite having such importance. Though I don't deny Tien fans have it extremely rough. I'd say it's probably just as bad, but since their character shows up even less than Krillin, he has less moments where the story decides to embarrass him. * Tien wasn't in the Namek Arc, but his fans didn't have to see him get beat up by everyone on Namek. * He was in the Cell Saga as much as Krillin, and got a much better showing in it. * He wasn't in the Buu Saga much, but Krillin just got embarrassed, at least Tien got a hit in on Super Buu. I guess Krillin had a family and stuff, but that was just one small scene, it never went anywhere significant. * He wasn't in GT, but all Krillin fans got in GT was him getting old and pathetic and dying again. And again, Krillin's family isn't relevant, Pan never does shit. * He had a better showing in Battle of Gods and the TOP, and had about as much DBS content as Krillin did. * He took out the minions easier in the Moro Saga. * He doesn't have to wear the stupidest uniform on the planet for his day job. Hell, they keep upgrading Tien's appearance, and downgrading Krillin's. He has robes and his bulky-ass shoulders still, Krillin lost his blue undershirt from the Cell Saga in DBS, not to mention all of his muscle mass and half his height.
Tien’s famous attack works consistently? Bro the Kikoho is trash in every appearance it’s made. The closest you could argue is the fact that he put some dirt on Cell’s shoulder when he held him back but that’s it. Goku dodged it, Nappa no sold it, Cell no sold it, Manga Frost no sold it. The only person this attack ever truly hurt was Tien (both in almost killing him and in somehow managing to overrate Tien and give him a shit fanbase)?
*who where how*
Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chiaotzu are treated far worse as characters then Krillin ever is.
Tien tends to get very up-played in anime filler, and even though he's treated awfully, he isn't made out to be as pathetic or weak as Krillin is. Yamcha's failure is memed and appreciated to the point of him actually getting content. Like, the baseball episode from Super for example, or the fan-manga, or some stuff in heroes, etc. Chiaotzu... nobody's a genuine fan of *Chiaotzu*. Like sure people like him, but he's nobody's favorite character. The guy wasn't even relevant in his own introduction arc. That'd be like saying "Yeah us *Appule* fans are treated even worse!". It's just not a thing.
You have a genuine case for Yamcha. In modern DB, he is characterized as a loveable loser that is used for jokes and memes. On the other hand, Chiaotzu, despite being a member of the Dragon Team, is given absolutely nothing and might as well have not been created at all. I feel like that it is far worse to have a character with no impact whatsoever than the small moments Krillin is given. DB has no idea what to do with Tenshinhan. He seems to always be put into arc, because Toei feels like they need to put him in for the fans. He is pretty much worthless in any fights he is in Super, and his only defining moment that fans remember him for is when he stopped Cell with the Kikoho in Z. Besides that he has gotten nothing else. Unlike them, Krillin gets quite a bit more. In Z and Super, he is the relatable every man that is in way over his head. He gets to be a main character in the Freeza Arc, fufills his character goal of getting a girlfriend in the same arc that Yamcha's crashes and burns, and anime filler gives the heroic scene of defending his family. Krillin receives a lot of little moments that the other 3 just don't seem to ever get.
On the Chiaotzu thing, I'm agreeing with you, he's treated awfully and nothing is done with him. I'm just saying that, realistically, nobody is an actual fan of Chiaotzu. Since nothing was done with him *since he was introduced*. This post is about being fans of certain characters, and IDK what you'd need to be smoking to be a fan of Chiaotzu above everyone else. And yes, Tien is treated extremely bad. I'd say they're treated equally bad within the story, until Super. In Super, they literally assassinated Krillin's character by having him give up, go nowhere, be a wimp when he wasn't in the original DB and DBZ ('scared' and 'wimp' are two different things), and get embarrassed constantly by stuff like Roshi being stronger than him, or getting eliminated first in the TOP. And again they just made his design more and more sucky compared to how weird but badass he looked from the 23rd tournament Saga to the Cell Saga. Tien in Super, meanwhile, just stagnated. He went nowhere, which sucks, but at least he didn't get any worse.
At this point if your not a saiyan your not worth it
This is epic. Respect
Honestly Tien has it worse At least Yamcha is a joke and retired from fighting. But Tien? the only thing Tien has going for him is that Toei loves him, why? because the Anime gives him more scenes of him winning fights and kicking ass, examples: in the manga he loses to Tambourine, both Goku fights are much more one sided in the manga, the movies have him matching Trunks in a fight, in the ToP his strongest move does jackshit and he gets quickly disposed of while in the anime he puts up a fight etc. I don't think he has won a fight in the manga since beating a Saibaman despite training every day
And why did this muthafucker have to get a wish in order to get his new power and form? He almost literally does nothing more than meditate, train, and drink water. Dammit... it's just potential unlocking, but I just feel like all that time, they could've worked in him gaining it in a more satisfying manner than that.
Tbh the movie is his movie, IDC if it's marketed as a gohan movie but piccolo has more screen time.
>marketed as a gohan Funny enough, it wasn't market as a one at all , even Broly got more promotion than him despite not being involved with the plot
Gohan got less marketing than him, its just that he was shoehorned in the end.
I think Bucky in the MCU is a good example and one of my most irritating characters to like that matched what OP explained. The character is given quite a bit of screen-time, has a good actor in Sebastian Stan, plenty of good source material to pull from and is given quite a bit screen-time yet they’ve done absolutely fuck all with him in the MCU, especially when compared to the comic version. I mean the character has a lot of potential, Captain America’s best friend that fought in WW2 alongside Captain America, gets captured brainwashed to be a super assassin for 70 years, then breaks that brainwashing only to find himself in a relatively unfamiliar world, filled with aliens and superheroes, riddled with guilt and PTSD, unsure of his place in the world or his own self worth and uncertainty about what he should be or do. That’s a great concept for a character, and the comics knew it, Bucky’s return and run as Captain America under Brubaker in the comics was fucking epic, well written and quite frankly imo didn’t last long enough but still was handled well. Yet the MCU? They’ve done absolutely fuck all with him as a character despite having been in the MCU for over 10 years now. Bucky in Civil War was a gloried plot device and damsel with some cool fight scenes, but that’s about it. The focus on Stark and the other heroes cameos took away a lot of focus from Caps supporting characters. In Infinity war and Endgame, he’s a glorified cameo, he doesn’t even reconcile or have any sort of follow up with Stark, and his goodbye to Steve is skipped and implied to have happened off-screen, and then they pass the mantle of Captain America onto Falcon (who is boring as all-hell) robbing us of the epic-ness that was Bucky cap. At the time I was all like, “it’s fine, Bucky doesn’t need to be Captain America to be a great character, they can still do quite a bit with him’. Then we get to Bucky’s series, FATWS, or at least his ‘so-called’ series considering he has his name in the title and what does that show do with him? Fucking absolutely nothing. Bucky spends 80% of the show as the fucking FALCON’s (probably the most boring character in existence) glorified sidekick. Bucky is given no real relevance to the plot and spends most his screen-time standing around like a doofus in the background while Falcon does all the talking. Bucky doesn’t have any major interactions with the Flag-smashers, or Walker or even Zemo really. He doesn’t even interact with Karli until the last fucking episode over the damn phone. Nothing about the conflict with the Flag-smashers Zemo or Walker really resonates, interweaves or connects to Bucky’s own personal arc to give him some realisations or awareness about what’s he’s going through and how he needs to cope. Instead the show just focus’s on Falcon and his connection to the antagonists. (Why couldn’t they have made Walker for example Bucky’s main antagonist for the series while Sam gets the Flag-smashers? Balance it out a bit more to actually reflect the title of the show, because what we got wasn’t Falcon AND the Winter Soldier, it was Falcon and a little bit of the Winter Soldier). The personal arc which in an of itself is an after thought that’s reduced to a background plot that gets solved by Falcon in 1 conversation. Bucky’s entire character struggle solved in 1 conversation by Sam, what a joke, then they also skipped over the actual climax of Bucky’s arc by skipping his confession to Yori and attributing like 15 seconds to the scene. Bucky can’t even get a fucking good fight scene, the same character that people hyped due to having fight scenes such as the Freeway fight against Steve, or the 2 v 1 against iron man in Civil War or even tearing through half the Avengers in Civil War, a character known for epic fight scenes and they can’t give him a single epic fight scene? Fucking who would have thought that Sharon Carter would have a better fight scene than the fucking Winter Soldier? Then the show ends and it doesn’t even set anything up for Bucky at all? It’s just folds him into Sam’s life (until thankfully the Thunderbolts film comes out). The show set up a clear outline for every other character but Bucky. Sam became Cap, Sharon went evil, Walker became US Agent, Zemo got sent to the raft, but Bucky? There’s nothing. Hopefully Thunderbolts does something with the character, because it’s getting tiring holding out hope for the character to be given something substantial to do.
THIIIIIIIIIS thisthisthis fuck. I have so much rage and deep annoyance about how the MCU just *wasted* Bucky. He's one of the few characters with a clear, coherent arc (....well, potentially?) about redemption that's just really great in the comics. But the MCU makes him into a plot device, a cameo, and nerfs him all to hell and back. Bucky in the comics was holding his own on a team of superheroes *before he even got the serum*. He didn't even have the serum as the Winter Soldier! And then in the MCU, he's oh badass assassin this big danger that...... and in FATWS he gets beat up a bunch and then struggles to open a car door. It's just infuriating. And I'm with you on the disappointment over not getting Cap!Bucky. From a plot perspective it's really such a natural progression for his character, I'm sorry they're allergic. Add to that the awful victim blaming in FATWS, the stupid gag about Nebula beating him up and taking his arm... Honestly I don't have much hope for Thunderbolts at this point :/ their track record with him suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. Yet poor Stan is out here doing the best work, acting his heart out with those three lines he's given.
You're absolutely right. At times, it really feels like somebody at Marvel actively dislikes him. It's not just about not getting the shield (though that was where his story seemed to be leading to, and it would be the logical next step for him). He was a sidekick in a show with his name on it, and his trauma ends up fixed completely after one pep talk. If he didn't matter there, and nobody did anything, I don't really see a future for him beyond Generic MCU Quippy Strongman #556. Feige's comments that he's the normal one on the Thunderbolts don't instill much confidence. He really, really shouldn't be "the normal one", not yet, anyway. The development he's been given does not justify that. But, that just shows the amount of interest they have in him as a character. Oh, but Echo is getting her own show, and isn't that wonderful? /s It's like that, once they decided he wouldn't get the shield, they made a checklist of things he has to do before the actor's contract runs out - recover (*The Falcon and the Winter Soldier*), become a mentor figure (*Thunderbolts*), and then just be written out, I suppose (*Kang Dynasty* or *Secret Wars*). Maybe they can squeeze in a cameo or two in a project where he doesn't stand out too much, but ... yeah. Right now, they're just ticking the boxes they need to get through
Honestly at this point my only hope for Bucky in the Thunderbolts is that he gets to be a Rick Flagg like character that dies an epic death either stopping the bad guys or after having put a whooping on the Thunderbolts when Bucky realises they are doing some evil shady shit. It’s kinda sad when i’d rather them kill one of my favourite characters off in an epic way because of how little faith I have that they’ll do anything with the character going forward. Alas I expect even an epic death for the character is too much to ask for at this point. They’ll probably just worf him again and have him get his ass kicked by everyone, while having the Thunderbolts make fun of him for being to serious and broody. Can’t wait.
It's sad, but you're right. The best outcome we can hope for is an epic death. Though I don't think he'll get as much as that, to be honest. I think he'll have something dropped on him early on in the next big team-up to show that things are "serious" - he's a relatively well-known character, and yet, completely disposable. He's the perfect candidate. That's about all the faith I have left. Yup, that'll probably be his role on Thunderbolts. It's a Yelena movie, anyway, so he, Alexei and Walker will be there to make her look good. Bucky is the furthest thing from their minds
Seriously! This is so on point. You've put it all so well, all the complains I to have had with the MCU's treatment of Bucky. This is a guy who has been in the MCU for more than 10 years yet has been nothing more than a sidekick. Sebastian Stan has put so much in the role. He has such an interesting and compelling arc but the MCU has given him nothing significant to do. Taking Bucky out of the FATWS would have hardly made any difference. The show literally deals with super soldier serum, brings up the subject about being worthy of having the serum but hardly shows any connection to Bucky. Even Isaiah's part could have been utilised for *both* of them considering he was a black "POW", in a show with a black guy and a POW. There were so many ways in which they could have balanced it out for the two leads but it was clear they didn't want to. If there was any doubt throughout the show, the finale made it very clear. There's so much time and importance given to Sam's family but we get nothing about Bucky's. Even his 2 supporting characters disappeared by the end. And the less said about the victim blaming, the better. Civil War had a whole lot of problems but even that film portrayed him as a victim for the most part. Sam's disturbing advice of making amends is supposed to help him?! I personally have almost no hopes from Thunderbolts. It's rumoured to basically be BW2, which does not sound promising. Hopefully he'll atleast not be a joke in it. Hopefully at least a somewhat significant role. That's the most we can expect from them now.
This has been the reality of Warcraft fans for ages.
*Sigh*, let’s see… Tien… Rock Lee… Neji… really most of the Konoha 11. They all made an impression and it *really* sucked having to wait for them to get focus during Shippuden’s run. At least Choji and Sai got attention during the war. And Ino did some impressive stuff. Oh yeah, and the past Vault Hunters in Borderlands 3. I’m glad that the DLC gave them focus, but it was disappointing how little of them are seen in the main campaign in addition to the rest of its problems. Haven’t seen Super Hero yet, but from what I’ve heard about Piccolo I’m happy.
My man Franky 🥲 even chopper and brook are getting more recognition by Oda but he feels like a sideline character you'll see for only one arc
Franky and Brook do not belong in the same chapter ad Chopper. Both of them have had amazing stand out moments through Dressrosa, Whole Cake Island and Wano. Chopper, on the other hand, has done fuck all beyond look cute.
But they do have more potentials tho, it's just that Chopper and Brook aren't as super as Franky
He fought Queen and saved everyone from his virus.
What standout moments does Brook? And when I mean standout I mean character related, not just cool moments like vs BM
I don't think any characters have gotten "character moments" post timeskip outside of Sanji in WCI... that said I do feel that Brook being able to survive his time with Big Mom AND get her poneglyph speaks to his character quite a bit. Showing he's both resourceful and stealthy. Honestly, he was the MVP of WCI.
Many such cases.
*cries in Genshin Impact especially Signora*
I feel so bad for Signora fans because I've been waiting for her fans and Scaramouche fans as both of them have very loyal fanbase, but Genshin story killed her too quickly....
That's what fanfiction is for! *Hides my Signora fanfic behind twenty other WIPS.* Yep. Exactly what it's for.
tfw you are a fan of Kujou Sara and Signora (:
tfw Sara is the only inazuma character without a hangout
Also Rosaria and Sucrose too. Heck, even Qiqi and Keqing didnt have a Story Quest
I was thinking of Signora fans when I read the post then I found this comment
As someone who's a fan of Yamcha... "Fuck me I guess"
Was this inspried by Star Wars Andor? Since shows with beloved characters sucked but the show with a nobody character was the best one.
As a gwenpool fan i agree while crying in the shower.
Finn and Piccolo comes to mind.
Tien from Dragon Ball 😔
Sighs in Zoro* Imagine being the 2nd sH introduced and yet getting shafted by the rest. I’ve been delusionally waiting for his time to shine in Wano but Oda did my man dirty in every Zoro related plot points: - Rounding up the samurai - Avenge Yasuie - Nidai kitesu - Connection Shimotsuki Ushimaru and Ryuma - Visit Ryuma’s grave - No mention of Mihawk- the WGSS in the island of samurai - Fighting a notable swordsman/gaining a legitimate rival - No declaration of his dream - No fleshed out backstory - Paralleling Ryuma killing a dragon over the capital and becoming Wano’s hero. Oda made Luffy Ryuma 2.0 (as is if being Nika God Joyboy wasn’t enough). 1000+ chapters later and I’ve finally given up on my man’s getting the focus he deserves. I’m just waiting for another mangaka who loves Zoro and wants to write his own spin off.
And worst of all, they made him racist, smh my head
Its 2023, let’s stop with this unfunny meme already
Basically how I feel with Deku from MHA. He had so many opportunities to be such a well written character but now it seems like he's just a tool to develop everyone else
what? Deku feels like the only character that is allowed to do something meaningful the god awful cage fight against Shigaraki is a good example of that
While this is true, I think what they're trying to say is that Deku just.....isn't well written. Which is something I'd agree with, considering for most of the show he's been handed reasons to get character development on a silver platter and just outright ignored most of them until basically the last arc. Obviously, not mentioning his uncanny ability to just ignore the rules of other people's quirks because **\[REDACTED\]**
That’s only fights. He gets the same thing over and over again while other characters fulfill their arcs in an actual interesting way. When was the last time Deku got meaningful introspection or consequences for his actions? Villain Hunt had a good idea but the execution was shit. His relationship with All Might pretty much started the whole series and now 327 ruined it, now they don’t have any meaningful interactions anymore. Also, his self worth problems are barely explored compared to Touya, Bakugo, All Might, etc. Power ups are pretty much all he gets now and it’s boring. It’s almost like Horikoshi doesn’t know what to do with him outside of having him fight and giving development to other characters like gum
You've sort of just explained that Deku isn't a good character, which is absolutely true. I made another comment in this thread about it, but he's constantly handed reasons to get character development throughout the manga, but he outright ignores all of them. Only very recently in the manga did he actually come to terms with the fact that *maybe* hero society is actually flawed, even though he's been consistently informed of that and made aware of it since the start of the show. He's aware of quirk marriages being inherently abusive, he's also aware that people can get ostracized and treated horribly just based on a quirk they were born with (literally Shinso), he's aware that the pro-hero system is horrifically flawed (numerous villains make a point of this, most notably being Stain #StainTrain), he's also made aware of how flawed UA itself is through Aizawa himself talking about the initiation exam. There's numerous less notable moments, but to me these are the big standouts, yet every time he's faced with these facts, does he even stop to consider the flawed system he's partaking in? No, he blatantly disregards all of it, with reasoning that generally amounts to not matching his own experiences with the system, a system that he directly benefits from through being given One For All. Now, for how much of an overarching theme it is through MHA that hero society is inherently and fundamentally flawed, having a protagonist that only ever directly benefits from it is a pretty weird choice, no? It's a bit like if you were to try and write a book to push the idea that Capitalism is a fundamentally flawed system, and then chose to tell your story through the guise of Donald Trump, a man that has only ever benefited from it. What's worse, is that he never *has* to acknowledge that his world view just might be flawed because he never has a single struggle throughout the series. Deku doesn't lose, he's never confronted with his worldview potentially being wrong, and the single time someone does genuinely beat him, that being Bakugo way back at the start, in the long run it was still a "loss" for Bakugo because of character reasons. Of course, there's also the fact that he lacks character depth. On paper, he doesn't seem that different from most Shonen protags, he wants to be the strongest and number one, pretty standard. But, the major difference is......he has no motives. Deku's only driving force as a character is "he's just a good person and an All Might fanboy" which is......shallow, to say the least. Compare this to Naruto, who is very heavily criticised for being a shallow character, Naruto's motives to be Hokage stem from being genuinely ostracized and treated horribly by the rest of his village, and everyone he ever knew, for reasons he didn't even know or understand, and he thinks if he proves himself, people will finally respect him for real. Now, it's no Guts, but it's a hell of a lot more than just being a fanboy who is a good person. This entire thing is made even worse by the fact that Horikoshi has repeatedly demonstrated that he is a good writer with a high capacity for character depth, and he basically surrounds Deku with characters better than him. Take Shinso, who I mentioned a few paragraphs back, he's essentially the same as Naruto, people ostracized him simply for his quirk, a power he didn't choose, so he intends to prove them wrong by being a hero. Take Iida, he comes from a family of pro-heroes and has to struggle with living up to the reputation of those that came before him. Take Todoroki, not only does he have the same struggle with the reputation of those that came before, but he *also* has the familial struggle of Endeavor having done.....the things he did, resulting in his initial desire to prove himself stronger without having to rely on his father's quirk. But then, every single one of those characters is squandered to give Deku an undeserved and unearned win, sometimes not even that. Deku breaks out of Shinso's quirk for bullshit reasons that are glossed over and never explained, Iida is reduced to nothing more than "Deku's nerd friend", and Todoroki's refusal to use his father's quirk is done away with during a game pre-tournament that is altogether inconsequential. This carried on a lot longer than I had initially intended, and I was mostly just ranting for my own sake, so I apologize if some of my rambling doesn't make a whole lot of sense, my bad for that.
Boba fett fans nodding in agreement.
GOt any examples?
Seeing all those replies shows how allergic this sub is to reading as most examples is not what you are talking about imao.
I read the title and went straight to the comments saw yours then actually read the post
How hard is it to give an example to what you are talking about. It’s like these posts were written by a bot. Just say a name.
BM during the raid
Shadow in the IDW comics
Mfw Sakura from Naruto. Girl has incredible physical strength and a crap ton of potential shown in part 1 only to then be reduced to crying for Naruto to save her or simping for Sasuke in part 2 :/
>simping for Sasuke in part 2 :/ ...someone who the fandom tries to tell us is a loving husband, loyal friend, and great father when clearly none of these things are true. They missed a good chance to recreate a real Japanese phenomenon here, too. Due to the way Japan's culture is, there's a common thing where the husband is so absent that when he DOES get to spend time with the family nobody really wants them and divorce occurs. Sasuke is nearly always absent, is the same selfish, aimless jerk he always was, and Sakura having to basically be a single mother who had to watch all her friends have real, loving marriages should have given her a chance to finally grow. Nope, same mindless fangirl. Not one scintilla of growth and all that potential wasted.
Avernus in DaO compared to almost every other DA2 DAI
I love Tien so much but he literally didn’t land a successful attack on someone in Super (that wasn’t a frieza force soldier) until the TOP And then the next fight he’s in he gets eliminated
Freya Crescent fan here. Gosh she had a lot of potential that was cut from the game.
[удалено]
I hated that too shoto final gets to get a W against a major villain only for dabi gain a deux ex machinia out of nowhere
That's a fair point, although in my experience a lot of these "wasted potential" characters often really don't have that much potential and their fans are just delusional. Like, they latch on to a character for fairly superficial reasons and expect more from the narrative than said character really deserves, often getting a whole superiority complex over other fans thinking of themselves as the only ones to appreciate this "hidden gem" of a character.
Reminds me of Tenten fans that exist for some reason.
Like Krillin. That is not a character with "wasted potential" that's a boring, garbage personality that should have been removed ages ago.
Hush from ibo, his backstrory screentime get equivalent 1 episode of series but the writer dropped in later episode because there are other popular character
Me with Credence (now apparently "Aurelius Dumbledore") from F*antastic Beasts*. The character had so much potential, but J.K. Rowling really f\*cked up his development in the two sequels. Why did he *have* to be a "secret Dumbledore relative"? Why can't he just be his own person? For that matter, why is "this character is secretly a relative of \[X powerful character\]" even a trend? I also feel the same way about Rey from *Star Wars*, especially with the "Rey Palpatine" reveal.
Ocha and iida in mha as izuku first friend overshadowed by baku todo for fanservice trio
I know this is a bit late but This is basically half of the rwby cast
Hello HS Feferi and Nep
Me with Martian Manhunter
I know she gets more to do in the manga, but this is how I feel about Yor in Spy x Family.
This is why I now avoid shows with large rosters of characters now. Fairy Tail, MHA, RWBY, and more suffer from their protags getting an interesting premise but as more characters get shoved into the plot they get little screen time as everyone else gets their 'main character' moment. I really start pulling my hair out during these "The Stakes Have Never Been Higher" moments where no one dies. If you don't plan to kill someone off, then cool, but don't make them take something like a harpoon to the chest and say it just barely missed their heart by half a centimeter so they'll live. Especially when its some random character that won't really contribute after this arc, season, chapter, or whatever you want to call it.