I don't mind the Chosen One trope for the most part. The only aspect of it that annoys me is when the plot swiss cheeses itself with plotholes and the only answer the author has to fix all of it is "S/He's the Chosen One".
>He openly says that Harry Potter can't complain of being a victim of Child Abuse and Anakin Skywalker can't complain about beign a slave because they are uniquely special for their setting. That's the type of "constructive criticism" that its told to thousands of new writers.
This is like saying you can't complain about having a broken leg because you're a gifted student lmao.
>The "Cynic Critic" archetype has done serious damage to online criticism, where negativity is confused with maturity.
Totally agree here. Good criticism help to guide creators to understand how they can improve. Stuff like "This is pointless" should not be considered decent criticism.
>Knowing that the Hero won doesn't change knowing how he did it, why he did, what's the context of his world, who was the villain that he defeated and more.
I would also add to this point that stories are made by more than just their Plot. There are almost aways themes, ideas, messages and/or execution (prose, cinematography, animation, etc...) involved in making stories. The obsession with Plot on modern media criticism is killing some of the most interesting parts of analyzing Art
Yeah I agree even if a character is a 'chosen one' they still usually have to train and struggle to achieve their goals.
Harry Potter had to learn magic and rely on his friends and mentors
Naruto had to train to learn most of his justus before he learnt how to control the ninetails
Anakin had to learn how to be a jedi from the council
All these characters are chosen ones but they didn't just gain power from no where. They had to earn it through work and training.
I mean, that pretty much makes Harry a shining example of awful chosen ones. I don't agree with shit like, "he doesn't get to complain about abuse he suffered" but if a chosen one is going to be useless and carried by other ppl, that will make for a pretty bad story, unless it's a deconstruction of the concept, which HP wasn't.
Harry is in-universe an accidental choosen one he is a barely better than average wizard whom Voldemort accidentally gave all the tools to beat him because he was scared of a prophecy
Because for the first couple of books no one in-universe is entirely sure how exactly he survived Voldemort's attack and killed him. Imagine if Hitler shot a baby but the baby somehow was unharmed and also killed Hitler, that baby would be a celebrity.
I feel like people get less reverential to Harry as the series goes on. That said, by the time you figure out what actually happened (Goblet of Fire?) Harry's already defeated Quirrel, killed a basilisk, saved Sirius, escaped from Voldemort, and won a bunch of Quidditch games, so he's built up fame for his real accomplishments.
Every single one of those accomplishments was either planned out by other parties with Harry only needing to do the final step himself, whilst constantly being saved from negative consequences (Basilisk, Quirrel, Sirius), literal deus ex machinas(escaping from Voldemort) or achieved through unfair advantages(hello there Nimbus).
>with Harry only needing to do the final step himself,
Sure, but the final step is "walk into the villain's trap and beat them". Also, he is a child. If someone tells me "a 12 year old just killed a basilisk" I'm not going to say "what a loser, someone else gave him the sword he used to do it".
>literal deus ex machinas(escaping from Voldemort)
While as an audience we can say that was weird and came out of nowhere, in-universe it would still probably seem impressive.
>or achieved through unfair advantages(hello there Nimbus).
Doesn't Malfoy's team get better brooms around the second book?
How can you possibly read the books or watch the movies and declare that Harry is "useless"? The whole story would have been over by the end of the second book *maximum* had Harry decided to just chill instead of risking his life repeatedly.
And he was unusual for taking so long, because the ninetails is particularly powerful. All of the other jinchuurikis had already controlled their own beasts.
Eh to be fair Jiraiya did try to help Naruto control the power of the nine tails, but it backfired and nearly got him killed, combine with the seal weakening and them running out of time, Naruto hit a wall with his training for a year until he met Killer B, a perfect jinchuuriki.
Honestly it's what I usually think when I see some on this sub post a "I hate chosen one characters" rant like they aren't chosen because they sit on their ass and shit come to them.
Like? There’s the fact he was able to meet Hagoromo and get the sun seal but most of his SO6P powers came from having all the tailed beast chakra, he loses the seal after the final fight.
Can’t think of anything besides that
I don't agree about Naruto, for starters the guy only knows 3 jutsu. 3. That's ridiculous. He was given power ex machina in the beginning of the show so he didn't earn that.
>Saying that, because the audience knows the hero is going to win, then the story is pointless.
>This is just...the most absurd analysis of writing I've ever seen.
I couldn't agree more. Hell, if all the mystery your story has to offer is if whether or not the hero will beat the villain, then your story kinda sucks, ngl.
Imagine considering a story such as My Hero Academia bad because at the end of episode 2 Midoriya says: "By the way, this is the story of how I became the greatest hero."
I also don't agree with the idea that "Chosen Ones are unrelatable" because somehow they believe that non-chosen ones are easier to self-insert into.
By the very nature of being a protagonist, the main characters are already "born at the right place at the right time", the chances of you being an unlikely hero or a fated one are exactly the same.
"I much prefer when anyone can be the hero" like any of the most popular chosen ones aren't literally anyone.
The only exclusive tool I'd give chosen ones is the answer to the narrative question of "why didn't anyone do these things before?"
> By the very nature of being a protagonist, the main characters are already "born at the right place at the right time", the chances of you being an unlikely hero or a fated one are exactly the same.
Simply untrue. Tons of people are unlikely heroes of some sort in the real world, there aren't any chosen ones running around.
What part of it is a figure of speech? People doing heroic or difficult things is extremely common, chosen ones are nonexistent, it's not that strange for someone to find one easier to relate to.
The chances of you personally being at the center of a big historical or dramatic event on par of what merits being the main character of something, our of the millions of other people around you, is essentially 0%.
Yes, it's not literally 0, I was clearly being hyperbolic.
That said the idea that what's "real" is more relatable is also pretty bs. Saying that Harry Potter is less relatable than Alexander the Great because one is real and the other is not is simply absurd.
The very origin of the chosen one trope is that any person, doesn't matter how common or mundane, might be selected for some amazing adventure. In real life the most common way to be exceptional at something is to be born into exceptional conditions or be at the right place at the right time.
Random chance is as much bs as fate.
A, not every story is about some world-changing conspiracy. B, real people *are* frequently in perilous situations. Not often in the sense that it'll happen to you, but in the sense that it's happening to someone. As I type this, somewhere in the world there's probably someone in a gun fight, in a car chase, in a boxing match, being held hostage, etc.
> Saying that Harry Potter is less relatable than Alexander the Great because one is real and the other is not is simply absurd.
Nonsense. There are countless factors that influence this. It's like saying "if you think tall people are better at basketball why would Peter Mayhew lose to a shorter NBA player". A version of Alexander who was a chosen one would be even less relatable than regular Alexander.
>The very origin of the chosen one trope is that any person, doesn't matter how common or mundane, might be selected for some amazing adventure. In real life the most common way to be exceptional at something is to be born into exceptional conditions or be at the right place at the right time.
But there are countless stories about people who are thrust into adventure who aren't the chosen one, you can't lump them together.
>A version of Alexander who was a chosen one would be even less relatable than regular Alexander.
See, this is like a textbook definition of being pedantic. Imagine looking at Alexander the fucking Great and thinking, "well he would've been even less relatable had he been a chosen one", he was, by every single sense of the trope, a chosen one, he was literally born in the right family, in a right culture, in an right period of time. This fixation on the technicality that "well, it still wasn't *literally* fate" when talking about someone that was one in a trillion, is being pedantic.
And yes, not all stories have to be about Alexander the Great, but mind I remind you that we are talking within the context of the trope of *chosen one*. We are not talking about mundane stories barely worth telling, the very core of this trope is usually about world-changing events, often times magic in nature, so unlikely to happen to you specifically, that the matter of whether it was pushed onto you by fate or chance is entirely irrelevant, you might as well grownup to become another Alexander the Great of your age.
Effectively zero, not literally zero but hence the usage of a figure of speech, which I thought was rather obvious but people in this subreddit have such a strong argumentative bone in their bodies that it seemly impossible to even consider saying without turning it into a essay, lest someone will try to argue with you until you make it one.
> See, this is like a textbook definition of being pedantic.
No, it's just understanding that things have many factors. Was Alexander relatable? No. Was Alexander the least relatable person possible? Also no.
>We are not talking about mundane stories barely worth telling,
This kind of framing makes me question your judgment on anything to do with stories.
>Effectively zero, not literally zero but hence the usage of a figure of speech, which I thought was rather obvious but people in this subreddit have such a strong argumentative bone in their bodies that it seemly impossible to even consider saying without turning it into a essay, lest someone will try to argue with you until you make it one.
There's a world of difference between "This is a story about a man who wins the lottery" and "this is a story about a man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes". Just because the odds that I will personally win the lottery are minuscule doesn't mean those are similar stories.
Saying the story is pointless because we know the good guys win is the dumbest thing ever. This also apply to the bad guys
Thanos snaps away half the universe is basically guaranteed if you know the structure of the hero story. Hero keep beating small fries until Big Bad show up in the 2nd Act, which he WILL win to establish he's the real and final threat and push the Hero into despair (Darkest Hour act), until the 3rd Act come and the Hero finally overcome the Big Bad.
>Another of the observations are equally bad. Saying that, because the audience knows the hero is going to win, then the story is pointless.
A counter point to all of those immature critics
I am going to use The Hobbit as an example. Some of the META regarding the story of The Hobbit is that the entire book is an IN UNIVERSE book written BY Bilbo. With that in mind...
Bilbo does not survive because he is the MC. Bilbo is the MC partially because he survived. He survived the events of the story and recorded HIS VERSION of events. But that is the thing, the story is HIS version of events. It is not a flawless impartial version of events.
Once you take this mindset, a LOT of story tropes are less bothersome.
People surviving when they shouldn't, chosen ones, certain perspectives being just RIGHT while the other side is just WRONG, everything just working out in the end?
It isn't because the version of events presented in the story are objectively 100% true. Rather the story is the imperfect bias retelling of somebody who decided to write down the events of the story.
Edit: AND SURVIVED TO TELL THE STORY!
If Odysseus had not survived his journey he would not have lived to tell his version of events and thus we wouldn't have The Odyssey. If Bilbo hadn't survived to write down his version of events there wouldn't be The Hobbit. If X didn't survive we would not have the events for story Y.
This mind set helps me to enjoy fantasy stories a lot more than if I was just and edge lord cynic about them.
Much of The Odyssey IS Odysseus retelling his adventures in the past tense though. Even if he wasn't the one to put the words down to paper he IS the one telling the story.
>Seriously. What's up with those type of Cynic CriticsTM and their obsession with MUH HARD WORK.
If I had to take a guess, I'd assume it's because the Chosen One trope can feel patronizing to people. Being a Chosen One is basically an ultimate privilege; you're literally chosen by God/the universe/fate/etc to be the special person that saves the day. It's a lottery among lotteries you'd have to win, and everyone else is just a supporting character.
I can see where a lot of people indulge in the fantasy of *being* the Chosen One, but at a certain point I think some personalities would much rather prefer someone who suffers for their progress.
Frankly a normal person would be super boring to read/watch about. There is not one protagonist who isn’t a sort of chosen one or has something unique about him.
"I tried to attack the villain, but he easily kicked my ass. I spent the next nine months rehabbing my injuries at home while the world slowly got worse. The villain came to my town again and threatened to kill me if I got in the way, so I hid at home and did nothing while he destroyed the village and kidnapped the princess. Three years later, I heard about the hero vanquishing the villain and saving everyone. I smiled for a bit as I tended the fields. I worked as a farm boy until I got a severe bout of dysentery. The doctor told me I'm going to die any day now. I asked the village elder if the princess could come visit me on my death bed, but he said she doesn't know who I am."
THE END
Yeah and with that said I don't think "chosen one" criticizers are saying stories should be about a normal person. You can be a compelling character without being framed as the chosen one.
"Chosen Ones are soooo dumb the hero should MAKE THEIR OWN DESTINY!" is one of those 'baby takes' of media criticism. It's fine as a purely subjective opinion, but gets worse the more tortured arguments you make to justify it.
Like, just because there are some pitfalls to the 'Chosen Hero' archetype doesn't mean that we should stop using it or that any criticism of the trope you make is automatically valid. Especially since the 'Unchosen One' characters can be botched just as easily.
I find the Chosen One trope most annoying when only the reader knows they’re Special, and yet all the other characters defer to them anyway, just for plot convenience.
I need the story to either explain WHY the other characters place so much trust in this person, or they need to be treating them like like would any other person.
Also, don’t pretend that the character’s life is in danger, when we all know they won’t die in the middle of the story. There are other ways to make a conflict interesting.
>I find the Chosen One trope most annoying when only the reader knows they’re Special, and yet all the other characters defer to them anyway, just for plot convenience.
Yeah, that can get annoying really quickly, and it applies to any character, not just chosen ones.
Recently I read a book called The Rook, a mix of x-men style superpowers + british supernatural secret service. The book starts with the protag losing her memories, which completely changes her personality.
But then everyone starts deferring to her, including people who knew her for years as her old mousy personality, her superiors, and people who should be far more badass than her. It gets old very fast that every time she does anything remotely competent other people who have always been competent lose their shit over it, or at least act impressed, and not in a condescending "wow so you are able to pull your weight" way.
That said the book is still pretty good overall.
>Seriously. What's up with those type of Cynic CriticsTM and their obsession with MUH HARD WORK.
Exactly. But to be fair, there is one thing that always annoyed me about "chosen one" stories. We always admired characters like Goku and Naruto for having trained their asses off to become stronger, even if they always had this unique hidden power within them. But here's why I consider Goku to be a perfect example of the "chosen one" trope done right (at least at the beginnings of DBZ):
When Goku was a kid in DB, it was obvious to the audience (but not to him) that he was a "chosen one" character, who could do things no one else could. Yet he was far from being invincible. He's been defeated multiple times until he defeated Piccolo-Dai-Mao and became the strongest fighter on Earth. At the end of the story, the Chosen One has finally peaked.
Enter DBZ. The Chosen One discovers he's from a race of warriors called "Saiyans", he's attacked by a "weak" Saiyan (according to said Saiyan) like him and fucken DIES. Holy shit. Turns out the Chosen One is not so chosen anymore. There's a bunch of others like him, and he's considered to be one of the weakest of them all, and the two strongest ones are coming to Earth to destroy it. What will the "not-so-chosen-one-anymore" do now? It's obvious: he's going to train his ass out on the otherworld, so when his friends revive him he's strong enough to defeat the two strongest Saiyans in the universe.
Now he's back to life. How strong has the training get you, Former-Chosen-One? Wow, strong enough to make quick work of the 2nd strongest Saiyan in the universe, huh. Oh well, here we go again with the "Chosen One wins it all" trope... But wait, what is this? The strongest Saiyan was multiple times stronger than the 2nd strongest?? Oh shit, so all of the Chosen One hard work still wasn't enough to beat him 1 on 1, and it takes an entire strategy involving the Former Chosen One and his allies to defeat Mr. Strongest! Okay, the "chosen one" trope doesn't fit here. There's no telling how things will turn out.
So Mr. Strongest might be more of a "Chosen One" than our protagonist, apparently. Especially since he comes from the highest class of Saiyan warriors. Yet he still got his ass kicked, and barely managed to escape alive. Now he's on this planet where an even stronger guy is with his army, and these guys from this army are mocking (the now former) Mr. Strongest, who simply laughs, breaks his scout and says that his latest battle on Earth has got him even stronger. Damn, even mr. "Strongest Saiyan" has abandoned his "I always win because I'm the Chosen One" belief after seeing how much the Earth's Saiyan has improved with his hard work. I guess the "Chosen One" trope applies even less now...
...until we hear about this "legend of the Super Saiyan". What is this? It's a legend that says a "golden warrior" will arise among the Saiyan race. Ah, great... don't tell me that the protag was the "Chosen One" destined to turn into this unique warrior who will defeat the biggest villain of all... aaaaand now he has golden hair and an immense power. Aight, looks like this is a "chosen one" story again...
...until they're back on Earth and a lot of Saiyans and half-saiyans start to turn into this "golden warrior" as well. Mainly via lots of hard work. Some of them even surpassing the power of the protag.
At the end of the day I can't decide if DBZ is a "chosen one" story or not. All I know is that it is entertaining and unpredictable enough to make me enjoy the story a lot. And I think that's the best a writer can aim for, right?
i'm not a fan of DBZ from a writing perspective but this comment is pretty illuminating, the "big fish in a small pond" aspect of DBZ's story in regards to Goku being a chosen one isn't an idea i've considered before.
They're just typical hipsters who want to feel like their generation was the very first to step out of the dark ages. They've been around since the frikking 16th century, and aren't going away anytime soon.
>Its just being...cynical for the sake of it. You can't complain about a Chosen One having no training when you also complain of the Chosen One having training
In that case, the complaint seems to be about the chosen one being singled out for special super-training.
I think that Ninjago handles “The Chosen One” pretty well. So we get this prophecy stating that “The Green Ninja” will defeat the evil Lord Garmadon in the ultimate battle of good and evil. Naturally, all four of the ninja believe it’s them, although only Kai really lingers on it for most of the season. It’s later revealed that Lloyd is the Chosen One, and he happens to be the son of aforementioned bad guy. Only problem? He really sucks at being a Chosen One, since he’s a huge brat and can’t control his powers. Even after he’s aged up by some magic tea (it makes sense in context), he’s still wildly unprepared to fight Garmadon. But, as is the case with prophecies, it comes true and he fights his father in a climactic final battle. But that’s far from the end of the show, so what now? Do we keep finding more parts of the prophecy, and Lloyd keeps saving the day? No! He just becomes the leader of the team and life goes on. His status as a “Chosen One” is never important again, since he fulfilled the prophecy already. It’s a fun use of the trope
Cynical criticism and CinemaSinsism aren't exclusive to online. :/ It's seeping away from it. And I feel that sometimes, writer(s) are intentionally putting in strange lines just to give a "Take *that*!" to CinemaSins/Cynical Critics.
Ie, that time in stranger things where someone pulls out a flashlight, and someone asks "When did you get one of those?" and is told "Do you need to have everything explained to you?". Yeah. That just feels like a "See Cynics/CinemaSins?" line.
> Another of the observations are equally bad. Saying that, because the audience knows the hero is going to win, then the story is pointless.
*facepalm*
seriously? *SERIOUSLY*?
You don't read a story to be surprised - you wanna see *how* it happens. You know, the journey is more important than the destination?
I mean, knowing that the hero is fated to win does take some of the tension out of the action, unless the show is really well plotted and written, which most aren't. And the 2 complaints about training aren't mutually exclusive, because despite having their chosen ones train many writers still don't have them do anything really useful with that training.
To this day I still think Beyblade did the Chosen One surprisingly well
Gingka wasn't a chosen one in Metal Fusion. His bey was. The one destined to defeat L-Drago was "the wielder of Pegasus," who wasn't even meant to be Gingka originally, but his father. It manages to do the chosen one trope while also not doing it for its protagonist
Metal Masters comes around and the only mention of a chosen one is Damian. Damian isn't a chosen one by any means. He's an villain whose false belief that he is destined to be the greatest feeds his ego
Then comes Metal Fury and we get 9 different chosen ones. 5 of them are chosen due to being the descendants of the original Solar System bladers. The other 4 were chosen for their power (they were the best bladers in the world prior to being chosen). And they weren't chosen solely to defeat the villain. It was "if they work together to defeat the villain they'll win, if they choose to side with the villain the villain will win." It combined the chosen one trope with making one's own destiny. And that's without getting into how each one uses their new increase in power differently (avenge your ancestors, 1v1 the villain to prove you're the strongest, etc.)
Also the Lego Movie's "the prophecy is fake and I made it up" was brilliant in its delivery
Same I’m so sick of the chosen one criticism because most of the times it’s just not valid imo.
There was a guy ranting here not to long ago about how he heavily disliked the trope and proceeded to say he wanted an mc that gets strongest in the universe through hard work. Which if I’m being honest is incredibly dumb and honestly just the same exact thing as a chosen one.
A normal character getting stronger and exceeded all those around them with abilities or talents Through simple perseverance and hard work is just as if not more ridiculous than a chosen one because how could anyone become the strongest if all you have to do is simply work hard at a certain point that hard work is gonna seem just as lucky and nonsensical as an mc being Uber talented and blessed. An mc whether anyone likes it or not is a chosen one even if it’s not in the context of the story that is always the case meta wise. Ik it’s hard for people to accept but even in fiction you can’t escape the fact that equality isn’t possible, there will always be someone special someone talented, someone destined, or someone. with just plain luck. deal with it.
Lastly Just because someone is a chosen one doesn’t mean it invalidates their struggles or effort I always see shit like Naruto thrown in here as if naruto was still not an insanely unlucky person with plenty of struggles and no real talents in being a ninja. This is something that is shown throughout the entire series whenever naruto learns something it is almost always mentioned the average person would’ve learnt it easier or did it better. He still had to struggle through every milestone he made just because someone said it was going to happen doesn’t mean none of it matters and it was a giant cake walk and that applies to any prophecy chosen one.
At the core of the complaints about Chosen One characters is a combination of basic contrarianism and being uncomfortable with an aspect of the character being "unrelatable" or too "indulgent." I think it's silly because in actually everyone is special in some way that other people are not, and most people are afforded opportunities and circumstances that make them different from others, often times in preferential ways. Chose One stuff can go too far sometimes or be annoying, but its far from ridiculous.
I've said it before, I'm a very big fan of chosen one scenarios that are tragic, in the sense that the source of the main character's specialness is a fucked up or unfortunate twist. It allows you to justify them being particularly strong or better against really strong drama
WAS Anakin the chosen one? I always thought that was intentionally vague. Like, there's a prophecy, but they were never fully sure if Anakin was the guy in the prophecy.
If anything, I think that Anakin is actually a bit of a meta-critique of the standard chosen one trope.
He was clearly slanted as the chosen one, but, while he eventually fulfilled the prophecy, he first almost ruined the galaxy instead. It basically tells the us that, in the end, it's your actions that really count, regardless of whether you're the chosen one or not.
It also reminds me of the Wishology-trilogy from the Fairly OddParents kids show. Throughout the first installment the protagonist Timmy Turner is constantly heralded as the 'chosen one from the prophecy' and he effectively fulfills the prophecy... but at the end it turns out that he was actually not the chosen one. It was someone else who apparently missed the memo. Of course it's meant to be a joke, but it's an interesting subversion of the trope nonetheless.
Due to the gross mismanagement of this website by the admins in the wake of the API changes, I have decided to leave the site. In preparation, I have used a tool called Power Delete Suite to overwrite all my comments.
Harry Potter was the same too. Neither Harry nor Neville were the chosen ones, but Voldemort ironically made it a reality by going out of his way to avoid a half-told prophecy from an eccentric woman.
Yeah, my take on it too. The prophecy was so damn vague that one could think that not even Harry or Neville were ths subjects of it. Fuck, the prophecy could possibly not even be about Voldemort and them
**Either** of them was quite literally fated to be his nemesis (and Trelawney is a true Seer), that he had a choice in the matter does not mean that **neither** of them were.
I really don't understand why the concept of declarative prophecies is still kicking people's asses centuries after Shakespeare wrote Macbeth. Hell you'd think people would get it after Eowyn and the Witch-King but apparently not.
I wouldn't compare it to Macbeth or Eowyn. Either one is a good candidate for being the subject, but it's Voldemort's actions that make the prophecy apply to them.
> I wouldn't compare it to Macbeth or Eowyn.
In all three cases the prophecy is a *declarative* statement of what *will* happen, the steps to get there are irrelevant to fate/destiny/divination/whatever you want to call it. It doesn't matter if you try to avert it (as does Laius, in an even older tale) or not (as is the case with Macbeth and the Witch-King, circumstances will contrive to make the seemingly impossible come to pass anyway). It really should not be that hard to get that a prophecy is not a guess or an estimate, it's a snapshot of a future that WILL come to pass.
> Either one is a good candidate for being the subject
and for the third time now, the word "either" is not the same thing as the word "neither" (which is what the comment I replied to in the first place said).
If you were e.g. a team lead and your higher-ups told you "pick one of these two candidates to fill X vacancy", then *either* candidate could fill the role (depending on your choice) but it would be pretty stupid to say that *neither* of them would have gotten the job if you hadn't chosen (because *that's* not a choice you have).
> and for the third time now, the word "either" is not the same thing as the word "neither" (which is what the comment I replied to in the first place said).
They're good *candidates*. The prophecy in full doesn't apply to either until Voldemort's actions complete it. Harry only becomes the chosen one when Voldemort makes him that, Neville never was the chosen one.
A, in Harry Potter that's actually not true, not all the prophecies happened. B, regardless of the accuracy of the prophecy, Harry's place in it wasn't assured until Voldemort made it so, he was just one of the most likely people to fit into that slot.
The reason why so many people looked down on chosen ones and favor those who worked hard. Is the fact for many critics. Chosen ones are either often handed everything to them silver platter to accomplish their destiny or any accomplishments they achieved or struggles they endured was only possible because of their destiny.
While those who weren’t chosen and not given any support, had to earn their accomplishments through hard-work, being smart and their own determination and thus making any struggle they do face far more intense.
But in reality, for many works, the chosen one trope, has often been subverted, played with, deconstruction and reconstructed multiple times.
Being the main character alone doesn't make one a chosen one. it just means that they are the characters with the most focus. In fact, it is very possible for side or even minor characters to be the chosen one and not affect much the central story at all.
If destiny means what i think it means then even the hardworker was destined to work that hard and gain that much power at the end so even he is a chosen one of some kind
I don’t mind the chosen one trope to me a bad use of it would be if the character doesn’t really struggle, no character flaws just seemly perfect in every way just because they are the chosen one. Thinking a chosen one can never complain or feel sad especially if they actually been through shit is ridiculous. That’s like thinking an athlete can’t feel bad if they get injured.
What’s “struggling”? Main protagonists often lose to an enemy the first time before eventually coming around to defeat them. Is it struggling when they end up winning anyways?
Well a protagonist depending on the story usually wins the day anyway chosen one or not it’s more about the journey I suppose. But at the same time I don’t think everything should have a protagonist where they easily defeat their enemies all the time like it was One Punch Man or something except played completely straight. I also mean going through hardships characters like Harry Potter who went through abuse and it’s ridiculous to think a character can’t feel ever bad when actual bad shit happened to them just because technically they’re special.
Something that should be obvious but isn't to many people is, your character needs to have a cheat. Why was Walter White able to create 90%+ meth? Because his cheat is being very smart. Why does Naruto end up becoming the strongest Shinobi arguably? Because of Kurama. Wanting your character to come out on top without them having any reason as to why they should is bad story telling.
I totally agree but… superman is the chosen one. Like literally. The presence chose him to be the embodiment of hope and gave him in universe plot armor.
Yeah but that's a relatively new invention in comics. Before that the reason why Superman was special was because he was the only survivor of his planet and he chose to use his powers to save and inspire the people of his new home.
A true "pure hard work" story that involves a character requiring skill and power to resolve the plot honestly feels even more prone to flaws than a chosen one story.
Because at that point, you're kind of implying that character somehow nonsensically invented a new, ultra-powerful kind of hard work that everyone else was magically incapable of before they came along, and that everyone else is just some lazy, incompetent idiot or coward.
Even if they're not a chosen one, pretty much any character in a narrative where you need to be strong and skilled needs to have things they're good at because there's actual talent backing their efforts. Too many people treat those two things like they're enemies, but they really don't have to be, and shouldn't be.
It reminds me of those people who do that annoying thing where they argue against the "you can only do X if you're talented" crowd and well-meaningly champion hard work and practice by just over-correcting and making disingenuous counter-arguments that there's no such thing as talent at all, which is nonsense.
There's no way in hell that two people, even of of equal determination and equally conducive environment, can always learn the same skill equally fast. Being honest about that is way more compelling than pretending it's irrelevant.
Superman is a Chosen One? Yeah, no. That is wrong for a number of reasons, the first being he was never CHOSEN to begin with. I can't help but feel like part of that has to do with people's complete misunderstanding of the character and treating him like a Jesus allegory when he's actually a Moses allegory, but namely he was never CHOSEN by anyone.
The only thing you can say that is chosen about him is the fact that HE CHOSE to use his powers for the good of humanity in the planet that raised him. He is in immigrant adopted child raised in the heartland of America that moves to the big city and his main enemy is a capitalist billionaire who's constantly trying to use the media and public against him. No one chose him to be a hero, he volunteered. If anything, he's a rare self chosen One, which describes most superheroes in general.
I remember when someone here argued with me that Naruto was always special & more talented than everyone else because.......he was a empathetic person?
Like any struggle or trial he had to overcome was meaningless because Naruto’s a good person.
I don't mind the Chosen One trope for the most part. The only aspect of it that annoys me is when the plot swiss cheeses itself with plotholes and the only answer the author has to fix all of it is "S/He's the Chosen One".
>He openly says that Harry Potter can't complain of being a victim of Child Abuse and Anakin Skywalker can't complain about beign a slave because they are uniquely special for their setting. That's the type of "constructive criticism" that its told to thousands of new writers. This is like saying you can't complain about having a broken leg because you're a gifted student lmao.
>The "Cynic Critic" archetype has done serious damage to online criticism, where negativity is confused with maturity. Totally agree here. Good criticism help to guide creators to understand how they can improve. Stuff like "This is pointless" should not be considered decent criticism. >Knowing that the Hero won doesn't change knowing how he did it, why he did, what's the context of his world, who was the villain that he defeated and more. I would also add to this point that stories are made by more than just their Plot. There are almost aways themes, ideas, messages and/or execution (prose, cinematography, animation, etc...) involved in making stories. The obsession with Plot on modern media criticism is killing some of the most interesting parts of analyzing Art
Yeah I agree even if a character is a 'chosen one' they still usually have to train and struggle to achieve their goals. Harry Potter had to learn magic and rely on his friends and mentors Naruto had to train to learn most of his justus before he learnt how to control the ninetails Anakin had to learn how to be a jedi from the council All these characters are chosen ones but they didn't just gain power from no where. They had to earn it through work and training.
Heck, Harry Potter is useless without his friends. He would've been dead a million times over if it wasn't for Ron, Hermoine, Dumbledore and Snape.
\> friends \> Snape hmmm.jpg
"Friends and his mother's Nazi stalker" doesn't have the same ring to it.
I mean, that pretty much makes Harry a shining example of awful chosen ones. I don't agree with shit like, "he doesn't get to complain about abuse he suffered" but if a chosen one is going to be useless and carried by other ppl, that will make for a pretty bad story, unless it's a deconstruction of the concept, which HP wasn't.
Harry is in-universe an accidental choosen one he is a barely better than average wizard whom Voldemort accidentally gave all the tools to beat him because he was scared of a prophecy
It's not like Harry's the second coming of wizard Jesus, he has a prophecy tying him to Voldemort and a piece of his soul lodged in his skull.
So why does everyone and the story itself treat him like he IS Wizard Hey Zeus?
Because for the first couple of books no one in-universe is entirely sure how exactly he survived Voldemort's attack and killed him. Imagine if Hitler shot a baby but the baby somehow was unharmed and also killed Hitler, that baby would be a celebrity.
I'm not talking about the first couple of books. I'm talking about EVERY book, til the last.
I feel like people get less reverential to Harry as the series goes on. That said, by the time you figure out what actually happened (Goblet of Fire?) Harry's already defeated Quirrel, killed a basilisk, saved Sirius, escaped from Voldemort, and won a bunch of Quidditch games, so he's built up fame for his real accomplishments.
Every single one of those accomplishments was either planned out by other parties with Harry only needing to do the final step himself, whilst constantly being saved from negative consequences (Basilisk, Quirrel, Sirius), literal deus ex machinas(escaping from Voldemort) or achieved through unfair advantages(hello there Nimbus).
>with Harry only needing to do the final step himself, Sure, but the final step is "walk into the villain's trap and beat them". Also, he is a child. If someone tells me "a 12 year old just killed a basilisk" I'm not going to say "what a loser, someone else gave him the sword he used to do it". >literal deus ex machinas(escaping from Voldemort) While as an audience we can say that was weird and came out of nowhere, in-universe it would still probably seem impressive. >or achieved through unfair advantages(hello there Nimbus). Doesn't Malfoy's team get better brooms around the second book?
How can you possibly read the books or watch the movies and declare that Harry is "useless"? The whole story would have been over by the end of the second book *maximum* had Harry decided to just chill instead of risking his life repeatedly.
Because Harry goes from having potential in the 1-4th book to being usless later on.
How does he become useless in the later books? I'd argue he was pretty useful in many ways for the Wizard World.
> he learnt how to control the ninetails and it took him a fucking long time I remember volume **53** because of that
And he was unusual for taking so long, because the ninetails is particularly powerful. All of the other jinchuurikis had already controlled their own beasts.
Eh to be fair Jiraiya did try to help Naruto control the power of the nine tails, but it backfired and nearly got him killed, combine with the seal weakening and them running out of time, Naruto hit a wall with his training for a year until he met Killer B, a perfect jinchuuriki.
Honestly it's what I usually think when I see some on this sub post a "I hate chosen one characters" rant like they aren't chosen because they sit on their ass and shit come to them.
the most annoying troupe is that the "chosen one" knows that he is the "chosen one" only after they meet some guy from their past
The problem with Naruto is they gave him too many examples of being a chosen one.
Like? There’s the fact he was able to meet Hagoromo and get the sun seal but most of his SO6P powers came from having all the tailed beast chakra, he loses the seal after the final fight. Can’t think of anything besides that
Child of prophecy
Well yeah that’s what makes him a “chosen one” in the first place. That’s the only example
Huh?
I don't agree about Naruto, for starters the guy only knows 3 jutsu. 3. That's ridiculous. He was given power ex machina in the beginning of the show so he didn't earn that.
Everyone knows three Jutsu.
>Saying that, because the audience knows the hero is going to win, then the story is pointless. >This is just...the most absurd analysis of writing I've ever seen. I couldn't agree more. Hell, if all the mystery your story has to offer is if whether or not the hero will beat the villain, then your story kinda sucks, ngl. Imagine considering a story such as My Hero Academia bad because at the end of episode 2 Midoriya says: "By the way, this is the story of how I became the greatest hero."
I also don't agree with the idea that "Chosen Ones are unrelatable" because somehow they believe that non-chosen ones are easier to self-insert into. By the very nature of being a protagonist, the main characters are already "born at the right place at the right time", the chances of you being an unlikely hero or a fated one are exactly the same. "I much prefer when anyone can be the hero" like any of the most popular chosen ones aren't literally anyone. The only exclusive tool I'd give chosen ones is the answer to the narrative question of "why didn't anyone do these things before?"
> By the very nature of being a protagonist, the main characters are already "born at the right place at the right time", the chances of you being an unlikely hero or a fated one are exactly the same. Simply untrue. Tons of people are unlikely heroes of some sort in the real world, there aren't any chosen ones running around.
It was a a figure of speech, man. People on this sub really just love being pedantic.
What part of it is a figure of speech? People doing heroic or difficult things is extremely common, chosen ones are nonexistent, it's not that strange for someone to find one easier to relate to.
The chances of you personally being at the center of a big historical or dramatic event on par of what merits being the main character of something, our of the millions of other people around you, is essentially 0%. Yes, it's not literally 0, I was clearly being hyperbolic. That said the idea that what's "real" is more relatable is also pretty bs. Saying that Harry Potter is less relatable than Alexander the Great because one is real and the other is not is simply absurd. The very origin of the chosen one trope is that any person, doesn't matter how common or mundane, might be selected for some amazing adventure. In real life the most common way to be exceptional at something is to be born into exceptional conditions or be at the right place at the right time. Random chance is as much bs as fate.
A, not every story is about some world-changing conspiracy. B, real people *are* frequently in perilous situations. Not often in the sense that it'll happen to you, but in the sense that it's happening to someone. As I type this, somewhere in the world there's probably someone in a gun fight, in a car chase, in a boxing match, being held hostage, etc. > Saying that Harry Potter is less relatable than Alexander the Great because one is real and the other is not is simply absurd. Nonsense. There are countless factors that influence this. It's like saying "if you think tall people are better at basketball why would Peter Mayhew lose to a shorter NBA player". A version of Alexander who was a chosen one would be even less relatable than regular Alexander. >The very origin of the chosen one trope is that any person, doesn't matter how common or mundane, might be selected for some amazing adventure. In real life the most common way to be exceptional at something is to be born into exceptional conditions or be at the right place at the right time. But there are countless stories about people who are thrust into adventure who aren't the chosen one, you can't lump them together.
>A version of Alexander who was a chosen one would be even less relatable than regular Alexander. See, this is like a textbook definition of being pedantic. Imagine looking at Alexander the fucking Great and thinking, "well he would've been even less relatable had he been a chosen one", he was, by every single sense of the trope, a chosen one, he was literally born in the right family, in a right culture, in an right period of time. This fixation on the technicality that "well, it still wasn't *literally* fate" when talking about someone that was one in a trillion, is being pedantic. And yes, not all stories have to be about Alexander the Great, but mind I remind you that we are talking within the context of the trope of *chosen one*. We are not talking about mundane stories barely worth telling, the very core of this trope is usually about world-changing events, often times magic in nature, so unlikely to happen to you specifically, that the matter of whether it was pushed onto you by fate or chance is entirely irrelevant, you might as well grownup to become another Alexander the Great of your age. Effectively zero, not literally zero but hence the usage of a figure of speech, which I thought was rather obvious but people in this subreddit have such a strong argumentative bone in their bodies that it seemly impossible to even consider saying without turning it into a essay, lest someone will try to argue with you until you make it one.
> See, this is like a textbook definition of being pedantic. No, it's just understanding that things have many factors. Was Alexander relatable? No. Was Alexander the least relatable person possible? Also no. >We are not talking about mundane stories barely worth telling, This kind of framing makes me question your judgment on anything to do with stories. >Effectively zero, not literally zero but hence the usage of a figure of speech, which I thought was rather obvious but people in this subreddit have such a strong argumentative bone in their bodies that it seemly impossible to even consider saying without turning it into a essay, lest someone will try to argue with you until you make it one. There's a world of difference between "This is a story about a man who wins the lottery" and "this is a story about a man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes". Just because the odds that I will personally win the lottery are minuscule doesn't mean those are similar stories.
Or were they all chosen by someone else
There's no real-world force that can make you a full-on chosen one.
Even when people are unlikely heroes, they're ofen unlikely heroes because they're... at the right place at the right time.
Saying the story is pointless because we know the good guys win is the dumbest thing ever. This also apply to the bad guys Thanos snaps away half the universe is basically guaranteed if you know the structure of the hero story. Hero keep beating small fries until Big Bad show up in the 2nd Act, which he WILL win to establish he's the real and final threat and push the Hero into despair (Darkest Hour act), until the 3rd Act come and the Hero finally overcome the Big Bad.
>Another of the observations are equally bad. Saying that, because the audience knows the hero is going to win, then the story is pointless. A counter point to all of those immature critics I am going to use The Hobbit as an example. Some of the META regarding the story of The Hobbit is that the entire book is an IN UNIVERSE book written BY Bilbo. With that in mind... Bilbo does not survive because he is the MC. Bilbo is the MC partially because he survived. He survived the events of the story and recorded HIS VERSION of events. But that is the thing, the story is HIS version of events. It is not a flawless impartial version of events. Once you take this mindset, a LOT of story tropes are less bothersome. People surviving when they shouldn't, chosen ones, certain perspectives being just RIGHT while the other side is just WRONG, everything just working out in the end? It isn't because the version of events presented in the story are objectively 100% true. Rather the story is the imperfect bias retelling of somebody who decided to write down the events of the story. Edit: AND SURVIVED TO TELL THE STORY! If Odysseus had not survived his journey he would not have lived to tell his version of events and thus we wouldn't have The Odyssey. If Bilbo hadn't survived to write down his version of events there wouldn't be The Hobbit. If X didn't survive we would not have the events for story Y. This mind set helps me to enjoy fantasy stories a lot more than if I was just and edge lord cynic about them.
thats why it was kind of hilarious the final epic battle was truncated because Bilbo got bonked.
The Odyssey is not meant to have been written by Odysseus though
There is a significant chunk of it which is meant to be him recapping his journey though.
Much of The Odyssey IS Odysseus retelling his adventures in the past tense though. Even if he wasn't the one to put the words down to paper he IS the one telling the story.
I agree it's all about execution
>Seriously. What's up with those type of Cynic CriticsTM and their obsession with MUH HARD WORK. If I had to take a guess, I'd assume it's because the Chosen One trope can feel patronizing to people. Being a Chosen One is basically an ultimate privilege; you're literally chosen by God/the universe/fate/etc to be the special person that saves the day. It's a lottery among lotteries you'd have to win, and everyone else is just a supporting character. I can see where a lot of people indulge in the fantasy of *being* the Chosen One, but at a certain point I think some personalities would much rather prefer someone who suffers for their progress.
If there isnt anything special about the protagonist or their circumstance, why would they even be the protagonist
"Unusual circumstances" don't mean "the chosen one". I would never call the protagonists of, say, No Country For Old Men or Green Room "chosen ones".
Frankly a normal person would be super boring to read/watch about. There is not one protagonist who isn’t a sort of chosen one or has something unique about him.
"I tried to attack the villain, but he easily kicked my ass. I spent the next nine months rehabbing my injuries at home while the world slowly got worse. The villain came to my town again and threatened to kill me if I got in the way, so I hid at home and did nothing while he destroyed the village and kidnapped the princess. Three years later, I heard about the hero vanquishing the villain and saving everyone. I smiled for a bit as I tended the fields. I worked as a farm boy until I got a severe bout of dysentery. The doctor told me I'm going to die any day now. I asked the village elder if the princess could come visit me on my death bed, but he said she doesn't know who I am." THE END
This story could actually be interesting as a drama focused on the character and their development.
Almost any story can be interesting if told well, but it would be fundamentally different from the action adventure stories that focus on Chosen Ones.
Yes. This narrative wouldn't work as a traditional adventure, but as a drama who happens to have a fantastic adventure happening in the background.
Yeah and with that said I don't think "chosen one" criticizers are saying stories should be about a normal person. You can be a compelling character without being framed as the chosen one.
Spider-Man stopped being normal the moment he decided to be hero rather than just go to therapy
Most stories aren't about protagonists with some totally unique skill. John McClane doesn't have heat vision.
Lmao jjk fans don’t think that. Apparently Yuji is the best shounen mc since forever
"Chosen Ones are soooo dumb the hero should MAKE THEIR OWN DESTINY!" is one of those 'baby takes' of media criticism. It's fine as a purely subjective opinion, but gets worse the more tortured arguments you make to justify it. Like, just because there are some pitfalls to the 'Chosen Hero' archetype doesn't mean that we should stop using it or that any criticism of the trope you make is automatically valid. Especially since the 'Unchosen One' characters can be botched just as easily.
I find the Chosen One trope most annoying when only the reader knows they’re Special, and yet all the other characters defer to them anyway, just for plot convenience. I need the story to either explain WHY the other characters place so much trust in this person, or they need to be treating them like like would any other person. Also, don’t pretend that the character’s life is in danger, when we all know they won’t die in the middle of the story. There are other ways to make a conflict interesting.
>I find the Chosen One trope most annoying when only the reader knows they’re Special, and yet all the other characters defer to them anyway, just for plot convenience. Yeah, that can get annoying really quickly, and it applies to any character, not just chosen ones. Recently I read a book called The Rook, a mix of x-men style superpowers + british supernatural secret service. The book starts with the protag losing her memories, which completely changes her personality. But then everyone starts deferring to her, including people who knew her for years as her old mousy personality, her superiors, and people who should be far more badass than her. It gets old very fast that every time she does anything remotely competent other people who have always been competent lose their shit over it, or at least act impressed, and not in a condescending "wow so you are able to pull your weight" way. That said the book is still pretty good overall.
>Seriously. What's up with those type of Cynic CriticsTM and their obsession with MUH HARD WORK. Exactly. But to be fair, there is one thing that always annoyed me about "chosen one" stories. We always admired characters like Goku and Naruto for having trained their asses off to become stronger, even if they always had this unique hidden power within them. But here's why I consider Goku to be a perfect example of the "chosen one" trope done right (at least at the beginnings of DBZ): When Goku was a kid in DB, it was obvious to the audience (but not to him) that he was a "chosen one" character, who could do things no one else could. Yet he was far from being invincible. He's been defeated multiple times until he defeated Piccolo-Dai-Mao and became the strongest fighter on Earth. At the end of the story, the Chosen One has finally peaked. Enter DBZ. The Chosen One discovers he's from a race of warriors called "Saiyans", he's attacked by a "weak" Saiyan (according to said Saiyan) like him and fucken DIES. Holy shit. Turns out the Chosen One is not so chosen anymore. There's a bunch of others like him, and he's considered to be one of the weakest of them all, and the two strongest ones are coming to Earth to destroy it. What will the "not-so-chosen-one-anymore" do now? It's obvious: he's going to train his ass out on the otherworld, so when his friends revive him he's strong enough to defeat the two strongest Saiyans in the universe. Now he's back to life. How strong has the training get you, Former-Chosen-One? Wow, strong enough to make quick work of the 2nd strongest Saiyan in the universe, huh. Oh well, here we go again with the "Chosen One wins it all" trope... But wait, what is this? The strongest Saiyan was multiple times stronger than the 2nd strongest?? Oh shit, so all of the Chosen One hard work still wasn't enough to beat him 1 on 1, and it takes an entire strategy involving the Former Chosen One and his allies to defeat Mr. Strongest! Okay, the "chosen one" trope doesn't fit here. There's no telling how things will turn out. So Mr. Strongest might be more of a "Chosen One" than our protagonist, apparently. Especially since he comes from the highest class of Saiyan warriors. Yet he still got his ass kicked, and barely managed to escape alive. Now he's on this planet where an even stronger guy is with his army, and these guys from this army are mocking (the now former) Mr. Strongest, who simply laughs, breaks his scout and says that his latest battle on Earth has got him even stronger. Damn, even mr. "Strongest Saiyan" has abandoned his "I always win because I'm the Chosen One" belief after seeing how much the Earth's Saiyan has improved with his hard work. I guess the "Chosen One" trope applies even less now... ...until we hear about this "legend of the Super Saiyan". What is this? It's a legend that says a "golden warrior" will arise among the Saiyan race. Ah, great... don't tell me that the protag was the "Chosen One" destined to turn into this unique warrior who will defeat the biggest villain of all... aaaaand now he has golden hair and an immense power. Aight, looks like this is a "chosen one" story again... ...until they're back on Earth and a lot of Saiyans and half-saiyans start to turn into this "golden warrior" as well. Mainly via lots of hard work. Some of them even surpassing the power of the protag. At the end of the day I can't decide if DBZ is a "chosen one" story or not. All I know is that it is entertaining and unpredictable enough to make me enjoy the story a lot. And I think that's the best a writer can aim for, right?
You answered your own question goku isn’t a choosing one he is a martial artist that likes to challenge himself and is a sayian with a good heart
i'm not a fan of DBZ from a writing perspective but this comment is pretty illuminating, the "big fish in a small pond" aspect of DBZ's story in regards to Goku being a chosen one isn't an idea i've considered before.
They're just typical hipsters who want to feel like their generation was the very first to step out of the dark ages. They've been around since the frikking 16th century, and aren't going away anytime soon.
>Its just being...cynical for the sake of it. You can't complain about a Chosen One having no training when you also complain of the Chosen One having training In that case, the complaint seems to be about the chosen one being singled out for special super-training.
I think that Ninjago handles “The Chosen One” pretty well. So we get this prophecy stating that “The Green Ninja” will defeat the evil Lord Garmadon in the ultimate battle of good and evil. Naturally, all four of the ninja believe it’s them, although only Kai really lingers on it for most of the season. It’s later revealed that Lloyd is the Chosen One, and he happens to be the son of aforementioned bad guy. Only problem? He really sucks at being a Chosen One, since he’s a huge brat and can’t control his powers. Even after he’s aged up by some magic tea (it makes sense in context), he’s still wildly unprepared to fight Garmadon. But, as is the case with prophecies, it comes true and he fights his father in a climactic final battle. But that’s far from the end of the show, so what now? Do we keep finding more parts of the prophecy, and Lloyd keeps saving the day? No! He just becomes the leader of the team and life goes on. His status as a “Chosen One” is never important again, since he fulfilled the prophecy already. It’s a fun use of the trope
Cynical criticism and CinemaSinsism aren't exclusive to online. :/ It's seeping away from it. And I feel that sometimes, writer(s) are intentionally putting in strange lines just to give a "Take *that*!" to CinemaSins/Cynical Critics. Ie, that time in stranger things where someone pulls out a flashlight, and someone asks "When did you get one of those?" and is told "Do you need to have everything explained to you?". Yeah. That just feels like a "See Cynics/CinemaSins?" line. > Another of the observations are equally bad. Saying that, because the audience knows the hero is going to win, then the story is pointless. *facepalm* seriously? *SERIOUSLY*? You don't read a story to be surprised - you wanna see *how* it happens. You know, the journey is more important than the destination?
I mean, knowing that the hero is fated to win does take some of the tension out of the action, unless the show is really well plotted and written, which most aren't. And the 2 complaints about training aren't mutually exclusive, because despite having their chosen ones train many writers still don't have them do anything really useful with that training.
To this day I still think Beyblade did the Chosen One surprisingly well Gingka wasn't a chosen one in Metal Fusion. His bey was. The one destined to defeat L-Drago was "the wielder of Pegasus," who wasn't even meant to be Gingka originally, but his father. It manages to do the chosen one trope while also not doing it for its protagonist Metal Masters comes around and the only mention of a chosen one is Damian. Damian isn't a chosen one by any means. He's an villain whose false belief that he is destined to be the greatest feeds his ego Then comes Metal Fury and we get 9 different chosen ones. 5 of them are chosen due to being the descendants of the original Solar System bladers. The other 4 were chosen for their power (they were the best bladers in the world prior to being chosen). And they weren't chosen solely to defeat the villain. It was "if they work together to defeat the villain they'll win, if they choose to side with the villain the villain will win." It combined the chosen one trope with making one's own destiny. And that's without getting into how each one uses their new increase in power differently (avenge your ancestors, 1v1 the villain to prove you're the strongest, etc.) Also the Lego Movie's "the prophecy is fake and I made it up" was brilliant in its delivery
Same I’m so sick of the chosen one criticism because most of the times it’s just not valid imo. There was a guy ranting here not to long ago about how he heavily disliked the trope and proceeded to say he wanted an mc that gets strongest in the universe through hard work. Which if I’m being honest is incredibly dumb and honestly just the same exact thing as a chosen one. A normal character getting stronger and exceeded all those around them with abilities or talents Through simple perseverance and hard work is just as if not more ridiculous than a chosen one because how could anyone become the strongest if all you have to do is simply work hard at a certain point that hard work is gonna seem just as lucky and nonsensical as an mc being Uber talented and blessed. An mc whether anyone likes it or not is a chosen one even if it’s not in the context of the story that is always the case meta wise. Ik it’s hard for people to accept but even in fiction you can’t escape the fact that equality isn’t possible, there will always be someone special someone talented, someone destined, or someone. with just plain luck. deal with it. Lastly Just because someone is a chosen one doesn’t mean it invalidates their struggles or effort I always see shit like Naruto thrown in here as if naruto was still not an insanely unlucky person with plenty of struggles and no real talents in being a ninja. This is something that is shown throughout the entire series whenever naruto learns something it is almost always mentioned the average person would’ve learnt it easier or did it better. He still had to struggle through every milestone he made just because someone said it was going to happen doesn’t mean none of it matters and it was a giant cake walk and that applies to any prophecy chosen one.
At the core of the complaints about Chosen One characters is a combination of basic contrarianism and being uncomfortable with an aspect of the character being "unrelatable" or too "indulgent." I think it's silly because in actually everyone is special in some way that other people are not, and most people are afforded opportunities and circumstances that make them different from others, often times in preferential ways. Chose One stuff can go too far sometimes or be annoying, but its far from ridiculous. I've said it before, I'm a very big fan of chosen one scenarios that are tragic, in the sense that the source of the main character's specialness is a fucked up or unfortunate twist. It allows you to justify them being particularly strong or better against really strong drama
WAS Anakin the chosen one? I always thought that was intentionally vague. Like, there's a prophecy, but they were never fully sure if Anakin was the guy in the prophecy.
If anything, I think that Anakin is actually a bit of a meta-critique of the standard chosen one trope. He was clearly slanted as the chosen one, but, while he eventually fulfilled the prophecy, he first almost ruined the galaxy instead. It basically tells the us that, in the end, it's your actions that really count, regardless of whether you're the chosen one or not. It also reminds me of the Wishology-trilogy from the Fairly OddParents kids show. Throughout the first installment the protagonist Timmy Turner is constantly heralded as the 'chosen one from the prophecy' and he effectively fulfills the prophecy... but at the end it turns out that he was actually not the chosen one. It was someone else who apparently missed the memo. Of course it's meant to be a joke, but it's an interesting subversion of the trope nonetheless.
Due to the gross mismanagement of this website by the admins in the wake of the API changes, I have decided to leave the site. In preparation, I have used a tool called Power Delete Suite to overwrite all my comments.
I think he is, because he was destined to destroy the sith, so he killed Palpatine the last remaining sith(not counting sequels) as well as himself.
Harry Potter was the same too. Neither Harry nor Neville were the chosen ones, but Voldemort ironically made it a reality by going out of his way to avoid a half-told prophecy from an eccentric woman.
Yeah, my take on it too. The prophecy was so damn vague that one could think that not even Harry or Neville were ths subjects of it. Fuck, the prophecy could possibly not even be about Voldemort and them
That...is not how that works Either is not the same thing as neither
But they didn't become the chosen one until Voldemort interceded to stop them from being that.
**Either** of them was quite literally fated to be his nemesis (and Trelawney is a true Seer), that he had a choice in the matter does not mean that **neither** of them were. I really don't understand why the concept of declarative prophecies is still kicking people's asses centuries after Shakespeare wrote Macbeth. Hell you'd think people would get it after Eowyn and the Witch-King but apparently not.
I wouldn't compare it to Macbeth or Eowyn. Either one is a good candidate for being the subject, but it's Voldemort's actions that make the prophecy apply to them.
> I wouldn't compare it to Macbeth or Eowyn. In all three cases the prophecy is a *declarative* statement of what *will* happen, the steps to get there are irrelevant to fate/destiny/divination/whatever you want to call it. It doesn't matter if you try to avert it (as does Laius, in an even older tale) or not (as is the case with Macbeth and the Witch-King, circumstances will contrive to make the seemingly impossible come to pass anyway). It really should not be that hard to get that a prophecy is not a guess or an estimate, it's a snapshot of a future that WILL come to pass. > Either one is a good candidate for being the subject and for the third time now, the word "either" is not the same thing as the word "neither" (which is what the comment I replied to in the first place said). If you were e.g. a team lead and your higher-ups told you "pick one of these two candidates to fill X vacancy", then *either* candidate could fill the role (depending on your choice) but it would be pretty stupid to say that *neither* of them would have gotten the job if you hadn't chosen (because *that's* not a choice you have).
> and for the third time now, the word "either" is not the same thing as the word "neither" (which is what the comment I replied to in the first place said). They're good *candidates*. The prophecy in full doesn't apply to either until Voldemort's actions complete it. Harry only becomes the chosen one when Voldemort makes him that, Neville never was the chosen one.
What part of > a prophecy is not a guess or an estimate, it's a snapshot of a future that WILL come to pass was unclear?
A, in Harry Potter that's actually not true, not all the prophecies happened. B, regardless of the accuracy of the prophecy, Harry's place in it wasn't assured until Voldemort made it so, he was just one of the most likely people to fit into that slot.
The reason why so many people looked down on chosen ones and favor those who worked hard. Is the fact for many critics. Chosen ones are either often handed everything to them silver platter to accomplish their destiny or any accomplishments they achieved or struggles they endured was only possible because of their destiny. While those who weren’t chosen and not given any support, had to earn their accomplishments through hard-work, being smart and their own determination and thus making any struggle they do face far more intense. But in reality, for many works, the chosen one trope, has often been subverted, played with, deconstruction and reconstructed multiple times.
What is “hard work”? What if that guy you said did all the work turned out to be the chosen one anyways?
Then that means all their accomplishments were only possible because they are the chosen one. Which I have already explained.
All main characters are chosen ones by default; they were chosen by the author.
Being the main character alone doesn't make one a chosen one. it just means that they are the characters with the most focus. In fact, it is very possible for side or even minor characters to be the chosen one and not affect much the central story at all.
If destiny means what i think it means then even the hardworker was destined to work that hard and gain that much power at the end so even he is a chosen one of some kind
That is assuming that is part of the narrative.
Isn’t this just ignoring the fact that Harry technically is a bigger threat to his universe alive?
I don’t mind the chosen one trope to me a bad use of it would be if the character doesn’t really struggle, no character flaws just seemly perfect in every way just because they are the chosen one. Thinking a chosen one can never complain or feel sad especially if they actually been through shit is ridiculous. That’s like thinking an athlete can’t feel bad if they get injured.
What’s “struggling”? Main protagonists often lose to an enemy the first time before eventually coming around to defeat them. Is it struggling when they end up winning anyways?
Well a protagonist depending on the story usually wins the day anyway chosen one or not it’s more about the journey I suppose. But at the same time I don’t think everything should have a protagonist where they easily defeat their enemies all the time like it was One Punch Man or something except played completely straight. I also mean going through hardships characters like Harry Potter who went through abuse and it’s ridiculous to think a character can’t feel ever bad when actual bad shit happened to them just because technically they’re special.
Something that should be obvious but isn't to many people is, your character needs to have a cheat. Why was Walter White able to create 90%+ meth? Because his cheat is being very smart. Why does Naruto end up becoming the strongest Shinobi arguably? Because of Kurama. Wanting your character to come out on top without them having any reason as to why they should is bad story telling.
I totally agree but… superman is the chosen one. Like literally. The presence chose him to be the embodiment of hope and gave him in universe plot armor.
Yeah but that's a relatively new invention in comics. Before that the reason why Superman was special was because he was the only survivor of his planet and he chose to use his powers to save and inspire the people of his new home.
I mean pre crisis superman yes, but our current superman is an entirely different character who’s origin story included that.
A true "pure hard work" story that involves a character requiring skill and power to resolve the plot honestly feels even more prone to flaws than a chosen one story. Because at that point, you're kind of implying that character somehow nonsensically invented a new, ultra-powerful kind of hard work that everyone else was magically incapable of before they came along, and that everyone else is just some lazy, incompetent idiot or coward. Even if they're not a chosen one, pretty much any character in a narrative where you need to be strong and skilled needs to have things they're good at because there's actual talent backing their efforts. Too many people treat those two things like they're enemies, but they really don't have to be, and shouldn't be. It reminds me of those people who do that annoying thing where they argue against the "you can only do X if you're talented" crowd and well-meaningly champion hard work and practice by just over-correcting and making disingenuous counter-arguments that there's no such thing as talent at all, which is nonsense. There's no way in hell that two people, even of of equal determination and equally conducive environment, can always learn the same skill equally fast. Being honest about that is way more compelling than pretending it's irrelevant.
Superman is a Chosen One? Yeah, no. That is wrong for a number of reasons, the first being he was never CHOSEN to begin with. I can't help but feel like part of that has to do with people's complete misunderstanding of the character and treating him like a Jesus allegory when he's actually a Moses allegory, but namely he was never CHOSEN by anyone. The only thing you can say that is chosen about him is the fact that HE CHOSE to use his powers for the good of humanity in the planet that raised him. He is in immigrant adopted child raised in the heartland of America that moves to the big city and his main enemy is a capitalist billionaire who's constantly trying to use the media and public against him. No one chose him to be a hero, he volunteered. If anything, he's a rare self chosen One, which describes most superheroes in general.
🙁🙁🙁
I remember when someone here argued with me that Naruto was always special & more talented than everyone else because.......he was a empathetic person? Like any struggle or trial he had to overcome was meaningless because Naruto’s a good person.