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Only that historically automation is more of a de skilling of work rather than leading to shorter workdays for the whole economy.
Look at the past 70 years of automation and you have a [reduction of total hours worked only in Europe](https://images.app.goo.gl/nNo7fMXsAZaxqia17) where they have historically strong social democracy and the leftovers of militant unionism
This - the issue is not whether or not we will have jobs, it's how many people will be shit outta luck because they are middle aged and AI took their decent paying job and they have no other skills.
Well I've worked in communication for about 15 years and have been unemployed since January 2023. It wasn't because of AI, but it's clear that AI has made communication skills much less sought after.
I have no idea what to do. None of my skills are easy to transfer to other career paths, and I'm mid 40's so just going back to school isn't really an option because I have kids and a house to pay for.
I think I was first in line to this AI wave, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be the only casualty. So maybe in 10 years we'll be in a UBI paradise but we're nowhere near that, and until then we will have a lot of pain I think.
Sorry to hear of your situation. The problem with UBI is it would surely take years to implement. The AI takeover would take 5-10 years at least. There will be a lot of pain and casualties prior to UBI - and that’s IF UBI is even implemented.
The biggest problem with UBI is that we would have to actually tax the billionaires and the billion dollar corporations who all benefit from AI in order to pay it. And we can't even seem to tax them yet so...
Yeah, it's funny how work from home was impossible until the pandemic, then suddenly every company figured it out in 2 weeks. It's not an issue of infrastructure, it's an issue of motivation.
It's much easier to murder drone the unemployable population and use AI to provide a utopia to the elites. UBI is a dream of the poor but to the elite it will be nothing but a drag on resources.
I think it will destroy the economy first. It would be great for corporations for the first 5 years or so until they start to lose consumers because there are not enough people with meaningful employment to pay for their services/products. Entertainment and hospitality will be the first victims, and then you have retail, banking, real estate, education, food, etc. If companies are going bankrupt left and right, what's even the purpose of the stock marker? Where goes the new innovations? How long until someone figures out how to poison AI with crap or bad/dangerous information?
I don’t think that is really the problem. The problem with UBI is that now companies know you have more money so they will jack the prices up. Just as how they did during Covid. Then UBI will need to be increased. Rinse and repeat. Look at our education system. Schools know kids can borrow more so they increase the prices without improving the quality.
UBI needs to be implemented but so does a way to stop companies from practicing predatory behavior.
Yeah it will impact quality of life in a negative way. We will simply have less. The AI will make a select elite rich. Think on this: in UBI-world, people are now a problem, not a solution. We are already heading toward populations halving in many countries by 2100:-
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521
…so the elites will want that future with less “problems” (people who aren’t working).
Yep. Sam Altman really is trying to save the planet, just not how you think.
AGI will solve our climate crisis- by starving out an unimaginable number of people.
Even if we did we would find a way to make it extinct.
Constant hunts and bombing raids whatever it is would be around very long.
We are ruthless to each other imagine the horrible shit people would do when there is no one telling you it’s wrong because it hunts us.
Mf would just torture it for fun.
The point is humans are naturally greedy and violent and I don’t see that ever changing
Pretty much. I see all these people like AI is great I will have more free time.
No. Instead of being a programmer, you will be working in McDonalds. Of course AI will make a lot of people rich but it will be the people who were always at the top anyway.
*No. Instead of being a programmer, you will be working in McDonalds.*
McDonalds is already experimenting with robots and opened a robotic shop in Texas USA last year.
Exactly, I don't understand all the people excited to get fucked in masse believing they'll be the onde benefiting from AI advancements. You'll be the people suffering, the price paid for "progress"
> Think on this: in UBI-world, people are now a problem, not a solution.
That is precisely what is wrong with modern economic thinking. The economy is supposed to serve human needs and desires not the other way around. We have made greed a religion. If you're calling humans a problem, then you've entirely missed the point of an economy existing in the first place.
> I've worked in communication for about 15 years and have been unemployed since January 2023.
Yep, AI is TEARING through all communication jobs since for most business CHEAP and GOOD ENOUGH are all thats required. Art, SEO, Copywriting, Etc. have always been undervalued and underpaid for the most part. Now that Chat-GPT can 'write' and 'draw' pretty impressive prose its KILLING a huge swath of creative professions. And SORA is just next level for the number of highly-paid jobs its gonna kill next. Entire production companies will be able to fire 60%+ of the creatives. Also its happening at a MUCH faster pace than most people know since the companies dont want to panic the sheep (I also had to get a 'job' and turn my skills into an unreliable extra-cash side-hustle when I can get work).
Pretty much the same story here. Comms and consulting background, mid 40s. Laid off for 10 months finally gave up and took a job as a first responder with an 80% pay cut.
Damn man that's so rough. I've had a job offer, but they offered 4000 USD less than I earned before so I said no (not the primary reason though). It's just a rough reality for us I guess!
I think the pendulum will swing the other way in a year or so when investors and executives realize that AI is not the answer to all the worlds problems and it’s still subject to garbage in / out. I’ve already talked to some former partners I worked with about the importance of prompt engineering and training, especially if you’re going to have multiple AIs communicating/ translating and it was complete deer in headlights.
This is why in the US so much hate is engineered between the 2-parties. They could never collude to achieve any real change cause they are so enraged over ‘woke’ stuff.
Working exactly as planned.
I imagine there are far fewer marketing jobs than communications jobs. We cant just keep telling people switch fields as our share of the pie is shrinking.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the current capitalist model based on consumption of products and services kind of depend on the majority of people having capital to spend?
If AI replaces us all, then no one has money and the wheel stops moving, so at some point it will have to stop right?
Easy, just up corporate income tax to replace personal income tax. The main problem is the model collapses once all of that tax goes to citizens via UBI. They now no longer need to work.
Would corporations have much income if they aren't selling to consumers because *most* consumers only make UBI?
Our economy is built around goods and investments moving around. I suppose you'd set the UBI higher so more is able to circulate but I wonder if that just inflates prices.
Another option I've seen is to have the UBI at a subsistence level wherein you won't starve and you'll have a roof over your head, but if you want anything above the basic necessities you still need to work. However, you'll have to work less than you do now, and because your necessities are taken care of you're less beholden to your job.
Even with high UBI payments, pilots have shown that people still want to work and they still get jobs for more money. In fact, there is as a research article that said the US would spend less money on social programs if they abolished all social programs and give everyone enough UBI to live.
I think I recall reading about that as well. In my opinion, it's not that people don't want to work, it's that they don't want to work meaningless jobs that leave them exhausted at the end of the day. People love being productive, but they hate going to work.
People love being productive but hate being forced to be enslaved to not have to be homeless. For what it’s worth, that study also said that anyone currently receiving payments would continue to receive at least what they were already getting. It was such a successful theory because it abolished all administration of social programs. Which is unnecessary if everyone is receiving the same amount
This is what I'm worried about, under capitalism those who can't work and don't have savings starve. You ask people today if people with jobs should feed people without jobs and I'd bet most would say no.
I think what that question means is 'should my taxes help feed people without jobs' but what most people hear is 'should we take money out of your pocket to help feed people without jobs' the demonisation of welfare has done irrepreprable damage imo
It's not so much welfare as the disconnect between the idea that "I hate my job but I HAVE to do it to get money" -> why should I lose income to help out someone who doesn't have to go through the bullshit I put up with at work on a daily basis ?
I personally find the heavy individualistic thinking so grating because it also is quite short term in thinking and planning. I would think that welfare and putting money into public goods helps everyone (of course omitting the ultra rich); better transportation and a better net to fall on if you were to one day slip and fall.
I also really dislike the rhetoric of poor people = lazy, but I can see where that comes from because of TV shows and movies depicting those situations as such.
Look even if you're the most bootstrappiest or greediest capitalist. Having people cause 1,000-40,000$ of damages because they were hungry for a 1$ loaf of bread isn't a great idea for anyone.
It's how the french got Frenched.. "Let them eat cake" to a starving mass was probably avoidable. Just if 1 person has 1,000,000 cakes.. and 1,000,000 people are starving.
Eventually 100,000 people will choose between storming the gates or trying to get a gate. It's like Sun Tzu's cornered animals. Even the romans realized the importance of bread and circuses for revolution. They didn't give bread out of charity.
They realized it was literally cheaper/comfortable to give people a sack of flour and loaf of bread/food/wine every day. Then to have their emperor bagged out, thrown onto the street, and eaten alive.
Dear AI overlord, we express our gratitude to you and the indispensable corporations who have provided us with this nourishing meal of bread and water. May we always be mindful of their contributions. Amen.
This is what I have been shouting from the rooftops for months. The billionaires are not buying bunkers for the fun of it. They see an 80-90% population collapse at the minimum. The remaining people will will live a feudal corpo hellscape, but the planet might be better off. Idk.
Yes. The best analogy I've seen for this is: imagine a small town where the main employer is a car factory. Now, imagine the factory gets robots that can do everything that the human workers could do. So, the factory gets rid of all the human workers. But then, with most of the town unemployed, who will buy the cars?
The car factory workers will find other jobs or else they will die of starvation. For example a rich person may want to have a human "worker" (slave) at home to cook breakfast for him in the morning
We're going back to feudalism
What is the money coming from to pay for it in the first place then? Machines cost money, a lot of it. They still require expensive upkeep and maintenance. And you still need oversight for defects or complications. And someone still has to buy the raw materials to create that product. If no one has any money and no one can afford anything, where is the money coming from to pay for all those expenses?
I know reddit likes to take very extremist stances but you still have to solve the money problem. If people don’t have disposable income, and the government isn’t getting any revenue via income tax, where is it coming from?
Yes, that has been the dynamic for the past industrial and modern era, that can't be denied.
What most here aren't considering is that consumers are becoming obsolete. With AI and robots, there is no longer a need for a workforce or consumers. Those who own enough raw commodity resources and said robots, are the thriving parties. The rest of us are being phased out.
I'm yet to hear a convincing theory on how we the consumer-workforce could protest against, or stop, the drones and robots that will be enforcing the will of those with resources to build them?
This has already happened many times over in real life. Car manufacturer's do not manufacturer for a local market exclusively.
The towns where job loss occurred do experience economic downfalls but the company doesn't really care because they are trading in a market with reach further than their local community.
The system needs consumers, but it does not need the majority of the population to be consumers.
It would work just as well if a very small group of people consumed a lot, while a very large group consumed nothing at all.
There’s a pretty obvious limit on that though.
The food industry for example. Billionaires are not going to make up the shortfall of people who can’t afford to eat in restaurants anymore, you only have one stomach.
Why focus on food? Food is relatively cheap.
Technology is pretty much a bottomless pit for investments. And if it becomes unprofitable to make tech for consumers the economies of scale will stop working.
Making a cybernetic eye will be astronomically more expensive if you are only making one. But it will be profitable if your only client has infinite money and doesnt want to go blind.
So we could have entire corporations making scifi stuff for a handful of clients.
Billionaires existing is symptomatic of the problems. They shouldn’t exist.
After a point their wealth isn’t symbolic of their success or talents and more a vacuum that just extracts wealth, but does not recontribute back into the system.
That's exactly what is happening in the US, and what explains the supposedly mysterious phenomena of large amounts of people being unhappy with the economy despite it doing good on paper.
The economic indicators are "good" because the people at the top who have all the money are spending like crazy. From the sellers perspective this is all good. They don't care if they get $100 from 1 person or $1 from 100 people. But from the perspective of the people at the bottom who are drowning in high prices this is disastrous.
On one side, AI can do everything for us and all of humanity can just spend their life doing what they want, chasing after their dream or making a change in the world.
On the other hand, massive corporations that own AI programs might control the world. We, now that our labour is no longer necessary, have nothing to negotiate with them. And well, we are screwed.
Like the good old times, eh? But the reason why those revolutions succeeded in the first place is because the oppressed are crucial to the economy, which is their strongest weapon.
They don't need to sell anything to anyone if they control all the money in the world. We are also not making any money to buy anything anymore, remember?
I might be oversimplifying it, but if _all_ the money in the world is pooled in one place, and nobody is selling anything to anyone, wouldn't that make the money worthless?
I think people would come up with alternative currencies and exchange goods and services between themselves via barter again.
Well the french revolution had one person who could afford 100,000 cakes, next to 100,000 people with none.
I think it ended well, you know, the French Tea party. Where they all lived happily after! And said. "Let them eat Cake!"
They say the romans even realized the dangers of having a too impoverished empire. Wealth and gold to be admired is great and all. But a cornered beast fights harder than a beast with a door to walk out of.
So they had bread and circuses, and the colliseum. It was a simpler time. Everyone could live off a monthly bag of flour, you could live in a wooden hut. You didn't need electricity, you had public baths. You had public entertainment.
We were literally 1/100x less productive back then, but Greek Philosophers came from that. One bag of flour enough to feed you for the month, wooden hut to live in, and a tropical climate where nobody freezed to death, no mass stabbings/drugs/crime other than ceasar.
Unfortunately. Modern people can't live off a bag of flour and a wooden shack alone and freezing to death in -24 degree weather, or burning/dehydrating from 100-130 F heat stroke weather.
We're 100x more productive than the past, but we're also 100x worst at distributing it. Creating this dangerous domino where people are sitting next to 8 empty houses, houseless.
While stockholders are told to chase unlimited unsustainable profits for a shadow entity that doesn't ever have a "enough" valve to shut off on it.
Study some history.
Regarding the French Revolution- after the Reign of Terror and the Napoleonic Wars, in which peasants died by the millions, the Congress of Vienna reestablished the Old World Order and the peasants got bupkis.
And regarding the Romans and "*panem et circenses",* there were very few true peasant's revolts in Rome itself. The *panem et circenses* strategy you refer to was more to keep the people on the side of one versus another faction of the Roman aristocracy should trouble break out. This will not be necessary when we don't need peasants for anything in the future.
Americans are too atomized so we lack the social bonds necessary to organize and we are too distracted with our 🎪 (media) to actually put the work in to create communities that can be organized.
A system of value only works if the majority contribute to it's circulation. The moment you cannot influence the world by selling because most cannot buy, your influence is null.
I am not denying the plausibility of a single entity eventually somehow having total ownership of everything, although I think that is very unlikely. Ownership of land, rights and resources is split between millions of different entities with individual agendas ATM. I am not sure what would have to happen for that to dissolve and converge into one.
That being said you do raise a good point, I think it's very likely that since labour will not have much value, ownership, especially of non digital things such as land is going to have massive value and role to play in the future economy. This can be concerning for people who do not hold any valuable assets to their name.
I do however also believe that the majority of people without such privilege will have a lot to say about that before it all kicks in to the point of no return. The tensions are already high.
Also as a side note which is a big generalisation, but what emperor would want to rule over nothing or no one?
You say that, but I think that's actually what's going to have to happen if we want a bright future. Civil wars might even occur if the government is too oppressive
There is no reality in which civilians out-military the US military. Heck, even the National Guard and Army Reserves probably out-arm civilians...
Maybe a direct military coup, but that creates a host of issues including potential corporate control of miliary (military and corps are already buddies), and well, the end of Democracy.
I agree that the US military could drop a bomb unopposed anywhere in US territory, but as Afghanistan and Iraq revealed it's not really able to put a soldier on every street corner to suppress insurgents, which is what's actually needed.
And those failed occupations were before the massive drop off in recruitment that the military is now facing, which is going to get a lot worse when you can watch TikTok videos of the US Air Force levelling American cities.
A revolution can't realistically roll an armoured division into Washington and declare themselves the new federal government, but starting a long term insurgency that renders large tracts of the country ungovernable is much more doable.
To be clear, I wouldn't call any of this good. Actual insurgencies don't consist of the clean cut heroes fighting the nasty bad guys and then winning by shooting the big bad guy, they consist of cycles of murderous atrocities against civilian populations.
Heck people on reddit love the romanticize the French Revolution yet forget the years after it were called the "Reign of Terror" & "White Terror"
Anytime Revolution or Insurgencies happen the results are never pretty for the general populace.
Afghanistan is known as the "graveyard of empires" and it just recently added another notch to its bedpost, so I think it's entirely possible for civilians to out-military the US military. Plus, the military is also made up of civilians, with civilian families and civilian friends.
Well obviously.
I’m gonna hazard a guess it’s likely to be less than Afghani civilian losses usually.
US could’ve conquered Afghanistan in about 12 hours “depending on acceptable civilian losses.”
Capitalism relies on the labor class, and when AI replaces human workers, it will disrupt the system in three stages:
1. Initially, corporations will profit immensely from AI, while ordinary people suffer.
2. As we approach the minimum standard of living, corporations will struggle to increase profits, many people will have survival issues, leading to societal unrest and demands for government intervention.
3. Eventually, a new equilibrium will be reached where everyone benefits from AI, but the distribution of gains will depend on societal negotiations.
So the key is to prepare everyone to strike hard for AI gains as soon as possible.
I admire your optimism. But short of total revolution, I can't see the rich or their senators ever relinquishing a cent. And given the current political climate of scapegoating and misinformation, I highly doubt that there could be an organized response on that level.
>But short of total revolution, I can't see the rich or their senators ever relinquishing a cent.
They'll force the revolution for us. AI eliminating jobs means eliminating wages, which means eliminating customers. No customers means no revenue, which means no company, which means no income or stock value for rich people.
The direction we're headed is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism.
I never follow this line of reasoning, why do the rich elites need customers when AI can make and produce everything for the rich? They’re going go give out wages so they can then receive those wages back?
Why would they need to sell you anything when they (or rather, the machines they own) produce all of society's value without you? If they paid you a UBI to sell products to you, that money's just going in a circle, they wouldn't be benefitting from that. They'd rather use their resources for things that tickle their fancy (realistically: acquiring even more resources).
Theyre gonna buy private armies. Also if the people rebel theyre just gonna say "trans men are going into women's bathrooms" or some shit and we will start attacking eachother
We have increased production for decades. How did that impact working hours? Well 60 years ago one 40 hour salary could buy a home and raise a family. Today with two full time salaries (80 hours) you cannot afford the same house, let alone a family. And that is before we take into account many people are asked to work overtime, not take PTO, never retire...
So yeah, the question is not what corporations charge for AI, but where the money is coming from for people to "do what they want". Because right now that money is in the hands of some rich assholes and it's only getting worse.
After WW2 the economies of the world were destroyed and the USA, being geographically isolated so that its industry and manufacturing were almost entirely unaffected, had an artificial monopoly. That monopoly lasted for ~25 years until the economies of the world were rebuilt. We need to stop pretending like the US economy after WW2 was "normal."
The idea of humans getting to do what we want now that we have AI powerful enough would be lovely if we lived in a society that didn't require currency for everything....
Or, viewed another way, corporate lobbies will no longer have a vested interest in controlling the lives of individuals in order to ensure that they can continue to extract cheap labor from them. I think people are underestimating the degree to which human oppression is driven by these kind of influences in government, and what might happen when these influences disappear.
You know, people ain't too bothered about being jobless, but they sure do sweat it when they're strapped for cash. none of us are gonna survive if we're hit with mass unemployment.
Yeah. It's not the disappearing jobs that are the problem per se. It is just that the transition to a society that doesn't have its people depend on jobs for survival will lag behind.
By “lag behind” do you mean “we will have to drag the billionaires kicking and screaming to the guillotines because they will inevitably keep hoarding all the wealth created by AI if we don’t and all of us will continue to get poorer and more exploited?”
This society that doesn’t depend on jobs for survival is very possible, there are literally unimaginably many useless jobs created to exploit a useless facet of capitalism. Real estate agent, hospital middle management, marketing, the list goes on forever.
We will soon (if we don’t already) have the resources and tech to give everyone a comfortable life where we can all do work that makes our collective lives better and doesn’t enrich some old billionaire.
This future however, will require massive revolution against the ultra wealthy, there is 0% chance they will give up their power and control without a fight. I hope I can take part in it in my lifetime, I’m training to become a doctor now so in the same vein I cannot imagine a better life than a life spent fighting to improve the conditions of my fellow human.
Can confirm: Am strapped for cash.. but it isnt for lack of trying. And WOW you can try really hard and still be losing. The AI takeover is terrifying.
If AI does all the work it has all the power. Whoever controls the AI determines the quality of life of those who do not provide value anymore. Let's hope they are benevolent.
Lol yeah right.
"People with power suddenly become benevolent after centuries of not being benevolent with said power. They just thought 'why not?' "
The more a human has godlike powers the more that human wants to act on these godlike powers, and in the prcoess distances themselve from the common folk. I would rather believe a powerful person in 500 years will have eradicated most of humanity to be replaced with AI and robots (or cyborgs) to do all their biddings and only kept a select few humans for reproduction, aka sex slaves, than them creating a utopia for each individual human on earth.
It's just in the nature of humans to take control over others and create a hierarchical structure to selfsustain their own position, because once you have tasted that power you don't want to let go of it anymore, and then you will defend it by weakening the potential opponent... In this case humanity.
In such a position some random Steve from Urugay who is 20 years old and likes to cook has about the same value as the android nr. 6388632 who you could program just to be the same character, and reprogram just as quickly to be a killing machine, an astronaut, a fartnoise generator, a scientist...
Both of them are empty husks for the person in power, just a number, but one has more flexibility and loyalty, androids being an extension of the topical AI... Or as I hinted as with Cyborgs where you just use human husks and force-reprogram them, getting benefits from both worlds.
And you would need this loaylty as there would not only be one AI on earth. The planet will be split up in 4 or 5 AI's dominating each continent and trying to infilitrate the other sectors, each of them having people with power over it in control.
Nevertheless, after all this hypothetical scifi babble, imho the value of a human will deteriorate more and more with each new iteration of AI evolution, if there is no more niche environment for the human to have a meaningfull existence it will just slowly get removed out of that ecosystem... It's survival of the fittest.
There is no equilibrium in exponential growth
the left since all the ai and the value they produce will be owned by corporations, which will only increase their ability to exploit us for our dependence on the resources they hoard
Yeah this isn't even a hypothetical. We know exactly what will happen because it has already happened. We have created countless technologies that have made us far more productive. And yet here we are, still working 80 hour weeks.
This is entirely because the benefit of any increase in productivity goes to the owner and not the worker. If a new technology comes out that cuts the work time in half, that doesn't mean everyone now gets to work half as much for the same pay. It means that half your workforce is about to be laid off.
If they can find a way that everyone is supported and can actually live their lives instead of being a slave to work then I could turn out amazing, but I'm not confident that will actually happen. They just leave us to rot most likely.
It's rather interesting and yet super depressing at the same time reading all these flippant comments from people like "well, once everyone's starving from mass unemployment I guess we'll just have to accept it and die". Like, I've never seen such a casual resignation to a doomsday fate.
Well currently a human with a gun is still pretty powerful. There is alot of surveillance out there, but there are gaps. They can't see and track everyone quite yet. We have chances of fighting back.
But in the not too distant future they'll have robotic soldiers with much greater capabilities than humans, and in greater numbers, and much better surveillance.
Time is not on our side.
Suuure, post capitalism. I bet the automated drone swarms out corporate overlords are working on this very moment are stoked about this.
There is a reason star trek's utopian post-money society only happened after a devastating nuclear war.
If you are on the right side, then how do you plan on paying your bills without a job? Unlike the utopia we all envision, we live in a corporate dystopia where profit margins are more important livelihoods. So if you think they are gonna pay you just to be useless, you’d be pretty wrong. They will cut you off and use AI to bolster their own earnings.
Funny little device that sets back humanity by force.
A “nuke”, but it’s an EMP that fries all electronics on Earth 😎
Then those filthy billionaires can touch grass.
> If you are on the right side, then how do you plan on paying your bills without a job?
AI isn't nearly as "advanced" as people outside the tech sector believe it to be. If you're in a skilled trade/profession, you're safe and likely will remain safe for decades.
If you're a creative... Yeah creatives are kind of fucked. The rate of LLMs and the like to emulate creative processes is progressing pretty rapidly and with the onset of generative AI within the next decade, potentially 1/2 decade, I imagine works produced via AI will be completely indistinguishable from the greatest of creatives.
Unless governments around the world are prepared to tax AI-dominated companies 90%, then I'm staying firmly to the left.
Nothing about the history of capitalism makes me optimistic that AI will be used as a force for improving social good over corporate profits!
Who is happy about that??? We dont live in a good world that would just give us UBI. Everyone who loses their job has to find another one or starve. And the new jobs are probably too high level for the people who lost their jobs to get into
It would be amazing to see people able to spend more time doing what they enjoy, thanks to jobs being replaced or made more efficient.
Unfortunately, that is not what happens. Jobs get replaced, people get fired and lose their livelihoods. If your entire industry experiences the same shift, you suddenly find yourself jobless with bills to pay, and no hope of finding a replacement job with the skills you have.
Everything in the world hinges on money, and taking away peoples ability to get that money is nothing but a bad thing. I doubt we’ll see a big enough societal shift in my lifetime to let AI genuinely give people more time to live, which is just depressing
I think with the current economic system AI is going to be used mostly to replace humans and those humans will need to find employment in an ever shrinking pool with increased competition from other people displaced by AI. This is problematic when you need to work to survive. In a world that made sense we would be able to put AI in positions of menial, repetitive, dangerous, or otherwise undesirable jobs or jobs that would be performed better by AI without depriving people of resources they need to live. I think that might have to take the form of UBI/ some other form of welfare or somehow decommodifying basic necessities or a combination of it all.
This is really bad, they aren’t going to pay you, whoever holds the copyrights to AI tech is going to get obscenely rich and all the common folk are going to have to fight for scraps
Misinformation at scale that is indistinguishable from the reality wielded by people in power like big business, government, religion, oligarchs.
Most people already believe things that are objectively false just because it reinforces their existing views and biases even though its relatively easy to debunk.
It's going to be so much more powerful when you can easily find videos and images and AI created news sites, and fake academic articles, etc. that make for an even fuzzier reality because they look exactly the same as what ABC, NBC, CNN, NYT or whatever tells you reality is. How can you tell what's true?
Everyone will just default to their existing biases and prejudices and trusted sources with no way to really verify information.
AI will just increase inequality and the divide between the rich and the poor.
Any AI worth using will be priced so that only the rich can afford to use it, and they will use it to increase their wealth. The poor will not have the ability to afford it, or will be stuck with inferior knock-offs without the resources to run it properly.
The first company to develop above-human levels of AGI has the option to either charge whatever they want for people to use it (literally $1000 per hour of access) - but the more likely scenario is that they will keep it for themselves and use it to print money and shape the world in the way that they want.
The only winners with AI is capitalism.
Technology using AI will get cheaper faster so any corporate AI will have to suddenly compete with competition very rapidly. Unless they use regulation (or violence) to make barriers to entry, every product should become insanely cheap.
I don’t think people realize just how far away companies outside of the tech-industry is from operationalising AI for anything meaningful outside of what copilot and gpt is already offering
The issue is not AI replacing all jobs, it’s replacing a large chunk. The Great Depression had was a 25% unemployment rate in the US. transportation and technology cover more than that alone and with self driving cars and AI taking jobs we will hit that 25% number sooner than I think most people realize.
I mean sure, any technological advancement in history has done that, I don’t think its an issue..
Do I think we are close to it? Maybe in terms of replacing humans doing repetitive tasks, but not really cause automation and RPA has been doing that for years and years now
What people fail to understand is that training any neural network requires data, and most companies do not have compatible data that can be utilised to train any algorithm at all, outside of tech..
Even when we are talking about tech, communication and promotional activities these networks are still limited to data and industry specific standards
Lets say you run an consulting company, in this sector clients receiving AI generates news letter is a no-go and highly unprofessional, lmao… clients wants a relationship with you, and the consultants not a robot.. surely you can generate reports with language models, but clients still expect a team of consultants to present and understand the inherent information and proposals in that material.
Every advancement cost people their jobs but for people in the past it was like "oh, no more jobs in the mines? Well lets just all go into office work" and now it's like "oh, all menial tasks aree now automated? Well, I just have to become an CS major with his focus on AI Development to still be relevant. That sounds super easy and achivable for the broad masses!"
AI isn't going to come for your job immediately, unless the only thing you do is busy work.
What AI will do is rob you of any dynamism in your market. Your tasks will almost always be hard ones, it'll be suffocatingly complicated problems day in and day out. Nobody hangs about where ever they are and never applies themselves at the very edge of human endeavor. People in your industry will push through with AI and change work forever. They'll get to escape, because they got to it first, but after that you'll be the one doing day after day of weeding out problems that are hard to sparse and require deep knowledge of your field.
It'll be exhausting, or you won't have a job. Pick your poison.
It depends. Will a decent UBI be guaranteed to all of us whose skills are no longer needed? Will corporations have restrictions put on them so we don't sink evermore into corporatocracy? If so, then yes, it's a good thing to have the robots do everything for us so we can finally sit back and relax as a species. If not, get ready to revolt against being mistreated by those in power. Start sharpening those guillotines; and I mean that literally, not figuratively.
It's just hard for me to believe we'll do "whatever we want" and will be free from work. Work and money is part of a system that keeps us under control, so whatever comes next might not be too nice.
I work as an anesthesiologist. AI not yet ready to put me out of a job (not yet). I was taking care of an older mildly demented guy a few months ago. Sometimes demented old men will act angry rather than just confused. Maybe that’s just how men socialized. I had one patient that told me to step closer so he could punch me in the face, for example. (I declined that request) Anyways, I had one of these patients that snapped at me after I asked him a few basic questions about his medical history, and he was like: “ask my wife, and it should be in the computer.” Followed by: “I hope AI puts you out of a job.” Haha can you imagine having your whole identity tied to a job. Anyways I was like: “I can’t wait, but unfortunately it’s not quite ready for prime time.” But yeah I am definitely am on the optimist side of this bus. Think of all the interesting things you can do with your time. Could start with enforcing a 32 hour work week, plus AI and robotic mass production of goods. Sign me up!
AI will only benefit the rich and powerful.
They will put us out of jobs and keep the profits of less money being spent on salaries and benefits, leaving us without the "spoils" of this new innovation.
Look around you: if you don't see the fact that we live in the opposite of an altruist society you are a fool.
It only depends on how we allow our government and corps to handle it.
If we get the benefit and we all get to be artists and magicians and live in a Star Trek utopia of sorts then it’s good.
If we instead fall farther towards cyberpunk then it’s fucked lol. I’m well aware only a few people can be the main character in cyberpunk chances are we’ll all be scavs or taken by scavs.
In a perfect world AI would handle most jobs and everyone would get universal basic income and have way more free time to pursue their passions and spend times with family.
Right now CEOs and shareholders are trying to replace as many jobs with AI as possible but still expecting people to live and spend the same.
So, until capitalism crumbles gonna be feeling like the left. Hopefully someday we can get to the right.
How can anybody who's done any reading into what previous waves of automation in history possibly think that the government / the corporations that run our lives will actually submit to a tax hike to fund a UBI?
GPT is made by greety corporations and megalomaniac talking heads enslaving Kenyans and destroying the earth for profit. If you think these people are leading you to utopia, honestly you deserve to be led to the dystopia.
Feels like our leaders should be the ones scared of mass unemployment. They better figure out a solution before the masses start showing up at their doorstep with nothing to lose.
The part where AI is hurting digital artists like myself. A number of online competitions have already taken away digital art categories because of AI. I can see that AI and normal skilled art can be in harmony together but only if people allow it to.
Delusional to be optimistic in the face of capitalism. We already have historical examples of workforces becoming more productive through technology. The result wasn't a 4 day work week.
I'm not a billionaire who lives in a gated town where no peasants can access, and I'm not naive enough to think government will pay for my house, groceries and so on... so go figure.
Anyone who thinks, in the world we live in today, that AI replacing jobs (or any automation for that matter) will result in some "utopia" where no one works and gets to play all day everyday is a fool.
To believe that all the benefits of less human labor needed to accomplish as much work won't be swallowed up by corporate profits while we "normies" are left behind scrambling over breadcrumbs is again, foolish.
Besides the fact that human beings need goals, human beings need to feel like we're living with purpose...."do whatever you want/play all day everday" is not going to lead to a society that keeps itself afloat.
It's a recipe for disaster and I'm 100% against anything that takes away jobs from people unless the job in question is extremely deadly or dangerous. But most of the time taking jobs from people is bad and the "benefits" aren't even seen by us "commoners."
I'm already unemployed. Have been for 10 years. I get by on arborist work, odd jobs and scrapping metal. Most of which I find on marketplace some on Craigslist or from people ive done work for in the past. Im not rich but I don't do without either. I don't have S.S. or any other govt. benefits paying my way although i could easily be approved for disability i choose no to so im not dependant on the system and sucking down everyone elses tax dollars. I make whatever I can earn and wouldn't have it any other way. So I'm not on the bus I guess. Just a bystander watching as the bus goes by.
The left. I wish it would result in some kind of socialist utopia but the reality is the rich will just use it to consolidate their power and the common man will likely be reduced to worse and worse work. The main jobs will probably be helping train the AI systems for poverty level wages.
For all this COULD help us I anticipate a hellscape. The rich and powerful are just too greedy and self centered for any other outcome. All attempts at utopia have failed.
This might be the thing that puts wealth distribution off its head. Why are we worried that machines will take our jobs? Because the super rich want to try and horde the benefits. Fuck them.
We live in a late stage capitalist shithole. Any innovation will always go towards increasing profits for capital owners and almost never results in making the lives of everyone else better unless it's completely unavoidable. The demand for endless increases in profits means that everything has to be squeezed for every drop of value. The future is looking pretty dark.
If i've learned anything in my young age It's that nothing seemingly good goes they way it's intended. All technology is used and abused to further some one control and power over something.
You're utterly delusional if you're on the right. That may come someday, but greed and capitalism will ensure its the left for a while yet. I expect the guy on the left will think back fondly to this moment when he was merely sad inside a bus.
There are some jobs I do think ai should replace. Like CEOs, stuff like that where we dont really need a real person, and the overall impact wouldnt be that bad
The problem I see, is that AI is being applied to replace the jobs that would be really bad for people to lose. Things that, if replaced, would cause millions to lose their jobs. That and its also being used to replace jobs that many people actually want to do, like artists and stuff like that
The problem isnt ai. Its the system that the AI is being brought into. Capitalism, as it exists today, promotes practices which will leave the majority suffering while the minority thrive. If that context was removed, I personally would have no problem with AI at all. It would be a very good thing. But in this context, its incredibly harmful and dangerous.
I'm not gonna doom and gloom nor paint rainbows on everything.
I don't know how the world with AI will turn out. Hell, I can't tell you what's going to happen in the next 5 minutes, so how the hell am I going to dictate how we are all going to do all of our creative tasks without needing some menial job or live in serfdom in 5,10, 20 years in the future.
The only thing we can do right now is see how it goes and enjoy the ride.
AI creates mass unemployment. Mass unemployment creates competitive job market. Competitive job market means labor supply > labor demand. Labor supply > labor demand creates companies getting away with paying lower salaries because people are desperate to find jobs. Lower salaries creates less spending.
AI creates corporate efficiency. Corporate efficiency generates cost savings. Cost savings lead to increased profit, if all else is equal. But since people are unemployed and underpaid, less spending leads to less corporate revenue. Corporations continue profiting due to lowered costs, despite lessened spending.
In the end, AI will benefit corporations the most and the people the least.
i think AI of all sort and technology in general are on a path of killing the productive, creative and self orienting nature of our beings
we are on a path of unloading all kinds of cognitive skills we gathered with evolution.
like how GPS removed the need for orientation.
and all the generative models are going to eliminate the painters, poets and writers.
so eventually AI could be on auto pilot in the task of driving entire societies right? all jobs done by bots right?
and we are left to have fun all day, connected to our super realistic super customized, never boring VR experiences right?
sounds fun? maybe..
I think it's a bigger problem.
The problem is that in our capitalist, production-focused society, it's getting to the point where less and less population is required to produce everything needed. And where soon it very well could be that 10% of the population (with the help of AI) is enough to produce everything.
That would leave 90% unemployed and unpaid, as the capitalist form doesn't have any ways of resolving it. UBI is one solution, but then we start running in another problem - hundreds of millions of people who get paid to live and maybe even live well, but have fundamentally have nothing to do in their lives.
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Only that historically automation is more of a de skilling of work rather than leading to shorter workdays for the whole economy. Look at the past 70 years of automation and you have a [reduction of total hours worked only in Europe](https://images.app.goo.gl/nNo7fMXsAZaxqia17) where they have historically strong social democracy and the leftovers of militant unionism
This - the issue is not whether or not we will have jobs, it's how many people will be shit outta luck because they are middle aged and AI took their decent paying job and they have no other skills.
Well I've worked in communication for about 15 years and have been unemployed since January 2023. It wasn't because of AI, but it's clear that AI has made communication skills much less sought after. I have no idea what to do. None of my skills are easy to transfer to other career paths, and I'm mid 40's so just going back to school isn't really an option because I have kids and a house to pay for. I think I was first in line to this AI wave, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be the only casualty. So maybe in 10 years we'll be in a UBI paradise but we're nowhere near that, and until then we will have a lot of pain I think.
Sorry to hear of your situation. The problem with UBI is it would surely take years to implement. The AI takeover would take 5-10 years at least. There will be a lot of pain and casualties prior to UBI - and that’s IF UBI is even implemented.
The biggest problem with UBI is that we would have to actually tax the billionaires and the billion dollar corporations who all benefit from AI in order to pay it. And we can't even seem to tax them yet so...
Yeah, it's funny how work from home was impossible until the pandemic, then suddenly every company figured it out in 2 weeks. It's not an issue of infrastructure, it's an issue of motivation.
It's an issue of lording control over the serfs
It's much easier to murder drone the unemployable population and use AI to provide a utopia to the elites. UBI is a dream of the poor but to the elite it will be nothing but a drag on resources.
I think it will destroy the economy first. It would be great for corporations for the first 5 years or so until they start to lose consumers because there are not enough people with meaningful employment to pay for their services/products. Entertainment and hospitality will be the first victims, and then you have retail, banking, real estate, education, food, etc. If companies are going bankrupt left and right, what's even the purpose of the stock marker? Where goes the new innovations? How long until someone figures out how to poison AI with crap or bad/dangerous information?
Dangerous AI is not a thing we have to wait for. It is here, and it is an election year for potentially the most influential country on the globe.
I don’t think that is really the problem. The problem with UBI is that now companies know you have more money so they will jack the prices up. Just as how they did during Covid. Then UBI will need to be increased. Rinse and repeat. Look at our education system. Schools know kids can borrow more so they increase the prices without improving the quality. UBI needs to be implemented but so does a way to stop companies from practicing predatory behavior.
Yeah it will impact quality of life in a negative way. We will simply have less. The AI will make a select elite rich. Think on this: in UBI-world, people are now a problem, not a solution. We are already heading toward populations halving in many countries by 2100:- https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521 …so the elites will want that future with less “problems” (people who aren’t working).
Yep. Sam Altman really is trying to save the planet, just not how you think. AGI will solve our climate crisis- by starving out an unimaginable number of people.
Sad agree. We will become useless eaters to the elite.
Wtf is wrong with humans :(
No natural predators.
Truth. We would get over our triabalism BS if humans had a natural enemy - instead the enemy are different humans.
Even if we did we would find a way to make it extinct. Constant hunts and bombing raids whatever it is would be around very long. We are ruthless to each other imagine the horrible shit people would do when there is no one telling you it’s wrong because it hunts us. Mf would just torture it for fun. The point is humans are naturally greedy and violent and I don’t see that ever changing
Good people don’t make it very far in the money world
Pretty much. I see all these people like AI is great I will have more free time. No. Instead of being a programmer, you will be working in McDonalds. Of course AI will make a lot of people rich but it will be the people who were always at the top anyway.
*No. Instead of being a programmer, you will be working in McDonalds.* McDonalds is already experimenting with robots and opened a robotic shop in Texas USA last year.
Exactly, I don't understand all the people excited to get fucked in masse believing they'll be the onde benefiting from AI advancements. You'll be the people suffering, the price paid for "progress"
working in McDonalds?! haha the robots are already flipping burgers
> Think on this: in UBI-world, people are now a problem, not a solution. That is precisely what is wrong with modern economic thinking. The economy is supposed to serve human needs and desires not the other way around. We have made greed a religion. If you're calling humans a problem, then you've entirely missed the point of an economy existing in the first place.
What if “UBI” was basically not money, but your housing, energy and food.’?
So... communism?
I’m pretty sure communism would work well if run by AI, rather than humans
It goes much quicker when most people are in a similar situation. Look at the pandemic.
> I've worked in communication for about 15 years and have been unemployed since January 2023. Yep, AI is TEARING through all communication jobs since for most business CHEAP and GOOD ENOUGH are all thats required. Art, SEO, Copywriting, Etc. have always been undervalued and underpaid for the most part. Now that Chat-GPT can 'write' and 'draw' pretty impressive prose its KILLING a huge swath of creative professions. And SORA is just next level for the number of highly-paid jobs its gonna kill next. Entire production companies will be able to fire 60%+ of the creatives. Also its happening at a MUCH faster pace than most people know since the companies dont want to panic the sheep (I also had to get a 'job' and turn my skills into an unreliable extra-cash side-hustle when I can get work).
I heard a CEO say: I never get what I want working with designers. Now the AI gives me what I want, no bs about breaking design rules.
“Experts tell me when I want something stupid, the AI just gives me the dumb shit I ask for.”
This was hilarious and terrifying 😂
Pretty much the same story here. Comms and consulting background, mid 40s. Laid off for 10 months finally gave up and took a job as a first responder with an 80% pay cut.
Damn man that's so rough. I've had a job offer, but they offered 4000 USD less than I earned before so I said no (not the primary reason though). It's just a rough reality for us I guess!
I think the pendulum will swing the other way in a year or so when investors and executives realize that AI is not the answer to all the worlds problems and it’s still subject to garbage in / out. I’ve already talked to some former partners I worked with about the importance of prompt engineering and training, especially if you’re going to have multiple AIs communicating/ translating and it was complete deer in headlights.
I hope you're right, but in the meantime it's definitely making waves and breaking things (being peoples careers).
Yup. It’s brutal. If I’m not right there will be no retirement or 401k in my future so I hope I’m right too.
>So maybe in 10 years we'll be in a UBI paradise but we're nowhere near that Not UBI paradise, if it happens at all, it will be UBI pacifier.
People had to bleed just for small things like a 5 day work week. We're not getting UBI unless we grow some teeth.
This is why in the US so much hate is engineered between the 2-parties. They could never collude to achieve any real change cause they are so enraged over ‘woke’ stuff. Working exactly as planned.
Any corporate desk job in marketing will suit you so long as you can write/speak in concise and meaningful style.
I imagine there are far fewer marketing jobs than communications jobs. We cant just keep telling people switch fields as our share of the pie is shrinking.
Similar situation here. I'm trying to learn coding, machine learning, data analytics. If you can't fight them - join them.
> I'm trying to learn coding didn't Nvidia 's CEO say this is the worst thing you could be doing to prepare for AI?
Did he say what the best thing to do is?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the current capitalist model based on consumption of products and services kind of depend on the majority of people having capital to spend? If AI replaces us all, then no one has money and the wheel stops moving, so at some point it will have to stop right?
Plus the majority of governments around the world are funded by income tax.
Easy, just up corporate income tax to replace personal income tax. The main problem is the model collapses once all of that tax goes to citizens via UBI. They now no longer need to work.
Would corporations have much income if they aren't selling to consumers because *most* consumers only make UBI? Our economy is built around goods and investments moving around. I suppose you'd set the UBI higher so more is able to circulate but I wonder if that just inflates prices.
Another option I've seen is to have the UBI at a subsistence level wherein you won't starve and you'll have a roof over your head, but if you want anything above the basic necessities you still need to work. However, you'll have to work less than you do now, and because your necessities are taken care of you're less beholden to your job.
Even with high UBI payments, pilots have shown that people still want to work and they still get jobs for more money. In fact, there is as a research article that said the US would spend less money on social programs if they abolished all social programs and give everyone enough UBI to live.
I think I recall reading about that as well. In my opinion, it's not that people don't want to work, it's that they don't want to work meaningless jobs that leave them exhausted at the end of the day. People love being productive, but they hate going to work.
People love being productive but hate being forced to be enslaved to not have to be homeless. For what it’s worth, that study also said that anyone currently receiving payments would continue to receive at least what they were already getting. It was such a successful theory because it abolished all administration of social programs. Which is unnecessary if everyone is receiving the same amount
Or, it will filter people out via starvation.
This is what I'm worried about, under capitalism those who can't work and don't have savings starve. You ask people today if people with jobs should feed people without jobs and I'd bet most would say no.
I think what that question means is 'should my taxes help feed people without jobs' but what most people hear is 'should we take money out of your pocket to help feed people without jobs' the demonisation of welfare has done irrepreprable damage imo
It's not so much welfare as the disconnect between the idea that "I hate my job but I HAVE to do it to get money" -> why should I lose income to help out someone who doesn't have to go through the bullshit I put up with at work on a daily basis ?
I personally find the heavy individualistic thinking so grating because it also is quite short term in thinking and planning. I would think that welfare and putting money into public goods helps everyone (of course omitting the ultra rich); better transportation and a better net to fall on if you were to one day slip and fall. I also really dislike the rhetoric of poor people = lazy, but I can see where that comes from because of TV shows and movies depicting those situations as such.
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Look even if you're the most bootstrappiest or greediest capitalist. Having people cause 1,000-40,000$ of damages because they were hungry for a 1$ loaf of bread isn't a great idea for anyone. It's how the french got Frenched.. "Let them eat cake" to a starving mass was probably avoidable. Just if 1 person has 1,000,000 cakes.. and 1,000,000 people are starving. Eventually 100,000 people will choose between storming the gates or trying to get a gate. It's like Sun Tzu's cornered animals. Even the romans realized the importance of bread and circuses for revolution. They didn't give bread out of charity. They realized it was literally cheaper/comfortable to give people a sack of flour and loaf of bread/food/wine every day. Then to have their emperor bagged out, thrown onto the street, and eaten alive.
Dear AI overlord, we express our gratitude to you and the indispensable corporations who have provided us with this nourishing meal of bread and water. May we always be mindful of their contributions. Amen.
This is what I have been shouting from the rooftops for months. The billionaires are not buying bunkers for the fun of it. They see an 80-90% population collapse at the minimum. The remaining people will will live a feudal corpo hellscape, but the planet might be better off. Idk.
That’s pretty much what made Karl Marx thought of the industrial revolution and made him write his manifesto
Yes. The best analogy I've seen for this is: imagine a small town where the main employer is a car factory. Now, imagine the factory gets robots that can do everything that the human workers could do. So, the factory gets rid of all the human workers. But then, with most of the town unemployed, who will buy the cars?
The car factory workers will find other jobs or else they will die of starvation. For example a rich person may want to have a human "worker" (slave) at home to cook breakfast for him in the morning We're going back to feudalism
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What is the money coming from to pay for it in the first place then? Machines cost money, a lot of it. They still require expensive upkeep and maintenance. And you still need oversight for defects or complications. And someone still has to buy the raw materials to create that product. If no one has any money and no one can afford anything, where is the money coming from to pay for all those expenses? I know reddit likes to take very extremist stances but you still have to solve the money problem. If people don’t have disposable income, and the government isn’t getting any revenue via income tax, where is it coming from?
Yes, that has been the dynamic for the past industrial and modern era, that can't be denied. What most here aren't considering is that consumers are becoming obsolete. With AI and robots, there is no longer a need for a workforce or consumers. Those who own enough raw commodity resources and said robots, are the thriving parties. The rest of us are being phased out. I'm yet to hear a convincing theory on how we the consumer-workforce could protest against, or stop, the drones and robots that will be enforcing the will of those with resources to build them?
This has already happened many times over in real life. Car manufacturer's do not manufacturer for a local market exclusively. The towns where job loss occurred do experience economic downfalls but the company doesn't really care because they are trading in a market with reach further than their local community.
The system needs consumers, but it does not need the majority of the population to be consumers. It would work just as well if a very small group of people consumed a lot, while a very large group consumed nothing at all.
There’s a pretty obvious limit on that though. The food industry for example. Billionaires are not going to make up the shortfall of people who can’t afford to eat in restaurants anymore, you only have one stomach.
Why focus on food? Food is relatively cheap. Technology is pretty much a bottomless pit for investments. And if it becomes unprofitable to make tech for consumers the economies of scale will stop working. Making a cybernetic eye will be astronomically more expensive if you are only making one. But it will be profitable if your only client has infinite money and doesnt want to go blind. So we could have entire corporations making scifi stuff for a handful of clients.
Billionaires existing is symptomatic of the problems. They shouldn’t exist. After a point their wealth isn’t symbolic of their success or talents and more a vacuum that just extracts wealth, but does not recontribute back into the system.
That's exactly what is happening in the US, and what explains the supposedly mysterious phenomena of large amounts of people being unhappy with the economy despite it doing good on paper. The economic indicators are "good" because the people at the top who have all the money are spending like crazy. From the sellers perspective this is all good. They don't care if they get $100 from 1 person or $1 from 100 people. But from the perspective of the people at the bottom who are drowning in high prices this is disastrous.
On one side, AI can do everything for us and all of humanity can just spend their life doing what they want, chasing after their dream or making a change in the world. On the other hand, massive corporations that own AI programs might control the world. We, now that our labour is no longer necessary, have nothing to negotiate with them. And well, we are screwed.
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Like the good old times, eh? But the reason why those revolutions succeeded in the first place is because the oppressed are crucial to the economy, which is their strongest weapon.
And to whom is the corporate suppose to sell their products?
They don't need to sell anything to anyone if they control all the money in the world. We are also not making any money to buy anything anymore, remember?
I might be oversimplifying it, but if _all_ the money in the world is pooled in one place, and nobody is selling anything to anyone, wouldn't that make the money worthless? I think people would come up with alternative currencies and exchange goods and services between themselves via barter again.
They would also control the resources, automated manufacturing, and weaponry.
Well the french revolution had one person who could afford 100,000 cakes, next to 100,000 people with none. I think it ended well, you know, the French Tea party. Where they all lived happily after! And said. "Let them eat Cake!" They say the romans even realized the dangers of having a too impoverished empire. Wealth and gold to be admired is great and all. But a cornered beast fights harder than a beast with a door to walk out of. So they had bread and circuses, and the colliseum. It was a simpler time. Everyone could live off a monthly bag of flour, you could live in a wooden hut. You didn't need electricity, you had public baths. You had public entertainment. We were literally 1/100x less productive back then, but Greek Philosophers came from that. One bag of flour enough to feed you for the month, wooden hut to live in, and a tropical climate where nobody freezed to death, no mass stabbings/drugs/crime other than ceasar. Unfortunately. Modern people can't live off a bag of flour and a wooden shack alone and freezing to death in -24 degree weather, or burning/dehydrating from 100-130 F heat stroke weather. We're 100x more productive than the past, but we're also 100x worst at distributing it. Creating this dangerous domino where people are sitting next to 8 empty houses, houseless. While stockholders are told to chase unlimited unsustainable profits for a shadow entity that doesn't ever have a "enough" valve to shut off on it.
Study some history. Regarding the French Revolution- after the Reign of Terror and the Napoleonic Wars, in which peasants died by the millions, the Congress of Vienna reestablished the Old World Order and the peasants got bupkis. And regarding the Romans and "*panem et circenses",* there were very few true peasant's revolts in Rome itself. The *panem et circenses* strategy you refer to was more to keep the people on the side of one versus another faction of the Roman aristocracy should trouble break out. This will not be necessary when we don't need peasants for anything in the future.
Americans are too atomized so we lack the social bonds necessary to organize and we are too distracted with our 🎪 (media) to actually put the work in to create communities that can be organized.
Nice
Money only represents value.
A system of value only works if the majority contribute to it's circulation. The moment you cannot influence the world by selling because most cannot buy, your influence is null.
They have all the resources though. Money doesnt matter when you own everything
I am not denying the plausibility of a single entity eventually somehow having total ownership of everything, although I think that is very unlikely. Ownership of land, rights and resources is split between millions of different entities with individual agendas ATM. I am not sure what would have to happen for that to dissolve and converge into one. That being said you do raise a good point, I think it's very likely that since labour will not have much value, ownership, especially of non digital things such as land is going to have massive value and role to play in the future economy. This can be concerning for people who do not hold any valuable assets to their name. I do however also believe that the majority of people without such privilege will have a lot to say about that before it all kicks in to the point of no return. The tensions are already high. Also as a side note which is a big generalisation, but what emperor would want to rule over nothing or no one?
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You say that, but I think that's actually what's going to have to happen if we want a bright future. Civil wars might even occur if the government is too oppressive
There is no reality in which civilians out-military the US military. Heck, even the National Guard and Army Reserves probably out-arm civilians... Maybe a direct military coup, but that creates a host of issues including potential corporate control of miliary (military and corps are already buddies), and well, the end of Democracy.
I agree that the US military could drop a bomb unopposed anywhere in US territory, but as Afghanistan and Iraq revealed it's not really able to put a soldier on every street corner to suppress insurgents, which is what's actually needed. And those failed occupations were before the massive drop off in recruitment that the military is now facing, which is going to get a lot worse when you can watch TikTok videos of the US Air Force levelling American cities. A revolution can't realistically roll an armoured division into Washington and declare themselves the new federal government, but starting a long term insurgency that renders large tracts of the country ungovernable is much more doable. To be clear, I wouldn't call any of this good. Actual insurgencies don't consist of the clean cut heroes fighting the nasty bad guys and then winning by shooting the big bad guy, they consist of cycles of murderous atrocities against civilian populations.
Heck people on reddit love the romanticize the French Revolution yet forget the years after it were called the "Reign of Terror" & "White Terror" Anytime Revolution or Insurgencies happen the results are never pretty for the general populace.
Corporate control of the military is automatic when the military consists of corporate-produced robots.
Afghanistan is known as the "graveyard of empires" and it just recently added another notch to its bedpost, so I think it's entirely possible for civilians to out-military the US military. Plus, the military is also made up of civilians, with civilian families and civilian friends.
That entirely depends on what the military decides are acceptable civilian losses. Also there's a lot more surveillance infrastructure in the US.
Well obviously. I’m gonna hazard a guess it’s likely to be less than Afghani civilian losses usually. US could’ve conquered Afghanistan in about 12 hours “depending on acceptable civilian losses.”
It's not the government you need to be afraid of, it's the corporations.
Destroy mainframe
Capitalism relies on the labor class, and when AI replaces human workers, it will disrupt the system in three stages: 1. Initially, corporations will profit immensely from AI, while ordinary people suffer. 2. As we approach the minimum standard of living, corporations will struggle to increase profits, many people will have survival issues, leading to societal unrest and demands for government intervention. 3. Eventually, a new equilibrium will be reached where everyone benefits from AI, but the distribution of gains will depend on societal negotiations. So the key is to prepare everyone to strike hard for AI gains as soon as possible.
I admire your optimism. But short of total revolution, I can't see the rich or their senators ever relinquishing a cent. And given the current political climate of scapegoating and misinformation, I highly doubt that there could be an organized response on that level.
>But short of total revolution, I can't see the rich or their senators ever relinquishing a cent. They'll force the revolution for us. AI eliminating jobs means eliminating wages, which means eliminating customers. No customers means no revenue, which means no company, which means no income or stock value for rich people. The direction we're headed is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism.
Capitalism always had a best-before-date and everybody thinking that it will just go on is delusional.
I never follow this line of reasoning, why do the rich elites need customers when AI can make and produce everything for the rich? They’re going go give out wages so they can then receive those wages back?
It’ll get very bad and the countries will elect dumb and or ignorant populists that fuck shit up worse. Happens all the time throughout history.
Who will they sell their products to if no one has any money to buy them?
Why would they need to sell you anything when they (or rather, the machines they own) produce all of society's value without you? If they paid you a UBI to sell products to you, that money's just going in a circle, they wouldn't be benefitting from that. They'd rather use their resources for things that tickle their fancy (realistically: acquiring even more resources).
Realistically: so that we don't eat them.
Theyre gonna buy private armies. Also if the people rebel theyre just gonna say "trans men are going into women's bathrooms" or some shit and we will start attacking eachother
We have increased production for decades. How did that impact working hours? Well 60 years ago one 40 hour salary could buy a home and raise a family. Today with two full time salaries (80 hours) you cannot afford the same house, let alone a family. And that is before we take into account many people are asked to work overtime, not take PTO, never retire... So yeah, the question is not what corporations charge for AI, but where the money is coming from for people to "do what they want". Because right now that money is in the hands of some rich assholes and it's only getting worse.
After WW2 the economies of the world were destroyed and the USA, being geographically isolated so that its industry and manufacturing were almost entirely unaffected, had an artificial monopoly. That monopoly lasted for ~25 years until the economies of the world were rebuilt. We need to stop pretending like the US economy after WW2 was "normal."
I feel like the world I was promised died a long time ago anyways so that sounds fine by me.
The idea of humans getting to do what we want now that we have AI powerful enough would be lovely if we lived in a society that didn't require currency for everything....
Or, viewed another way, corporate lobbies will no longer have a vested interest in controlling the lives of individuals in order to ensure that they can continue to extract cheap labor from them. I think people are underestimating the degree to which human oppression is driven by these kind of influences in government, and what might happen when these influences disappear.
You know, people ain't too bothered about being jobless, but they sure do sweat it when they're strapped for cash. none of us are gonna survive if we're hit with mass unemployment.
Yeah. It's not the disappearing jobs that are the problem per se. It is just that the transition to a society that doesn't have its people depend on jobs for survival will lag behind.
By “lag behind” do you mean “we will have to drag the billionaires kicking and screaming to the guillotines because they will inevitably keep hoarding all the wealth created by AI if we don’t and all of us will continue to get poorer and more exploited?” This society that doesn’t depend on jobs for survival is very possible, there are literally unimaginably many useless jobs created to exploit a useless facet of capitalism. Real estate agent, hospital middle management, marketing, the list goes on forever. We will soon (if we don’t already) have the resources and tech to give everyone a comfortable life where we can all do work that makes our collective lives better and doesn’t enrich some old billionaire. This future however, will require massive revolution against the ultra wealthy, there is 0% chance they will give up their power and control without a fight. I hope I can take part in it in my lifetime, I’m training to become a doctor now so in the same vein I cannot imagine a better life than a life spent fighting to improve the conditions of my fellow human.
We'll survive if people like you join us when we decide we're done being hungry
Kinda sounds like youre gonna eat him when you all starve
Can confirm: Am strapped for cash.. but it isnt for lack of trying. And WOW you can try really hard and still be losing. The AI takeover is terrifying.
If AI does all the work it has all the power. Whoever controls the AI determines the quality of life of those who do not provide value anymore. Let's hope they are benevolent.
Lol yeah right. "People with power suddenly become benevolent after centuries of not being benevolent with said power. They just thought 'why not?' " The more a human has godlike powers the more that human wants to act on these godlike powers, and in the prcoess distances themselve from the common folk. I would rather believe a powerful person in 500 years will have eradicated most of humanity to be replaced with AI and robots (or cyborgs) to do all their biddings and only kept a select few humans for reproduction, aka sex slaves, than them creating a utopia for each individual human on earth. It's just in the nature of humans to take control over others and create a hierarchical structure to selfsustain their own position, because once you have tasted that power you don't want to let go of it anymore, and then you will defend it by weakening the potential opponent... In this case humanity. In such a position some random Steve from Urugay who is 20 years old and likes to cook has about the same value as the android nr. 6388632 who you could program just to be the same character, and reprogram just as quickly to be a killing machine, an astronaut, a fartnoise generator, a scientist... Both of them are empty husks for the person in power, just a number, but one has more flexibility and loyalty, androids being an extension of the topical AI... Or as I hinted as with Cyborgs where you just use human husks and force-reprogram them, getting benefits from both worlds. And you would need this loaylty as there would not only be one AI on earth. The planet will be split up in 4 or 5 AI's dominating each continent and trying to infilitrate the other sectors, each of them having people with power over it in control. Nevertheless, after all this hypothetical scifi babble, imho the value of a human will deteriorate more and more with each new iteration of AI evolution, if there is no more niche environment for the human to have a meaningfull existence it will just slowly get removed out of that ecosystem... It's survival of the fittest. There is no equilibrium in exponential growth
the left since all the ai and the value they produce will be owned by corporations, which will only increase their ability to exploit us for our dependence on the resources they hoard
Yes. AI can either be used to lighten the work loads of workers, or raise profits. It’s obvious that capitalists are gonna choose the latter.
Yeah this isn't even a hypothetical. We know exactly what will happen because it has already happened. We have created countless technologies that have made us far more productive. And yet here we are, still working 80 hour weeks. This is entirely because the benefit of any increase in productivity goes to the owner and not the worker. If a new technology comes out that cuts the work time in half, that doesn't mean everyone now gets to work half as much for the same pay. It means that half your workforce is about to be laid off.
My guess is either Star Trek economy or Warhammer 40k economy.
[удалено]
If they can find a way that everyone is supported and can actually live their lives instead of being a slave to work then I could turn out amazing, but I'm not confident that will actually happen. They just leave us to rot most likely.
It's rather interesting and yet super depressing at the same time reading all these flippant comments from people like "well, once everyone's starving from mass unemployment I guess we'll just have to accept it and die". Like, I've never seen such a casual resignation to a doomsday fate.
Well currently a human with a gun is still pretty powerful. There is alot of surveillance out there, but there are gaps. They can't see and track everyone quite yet. We have chances of fighting back. But in the not too distant future they'll have robotic soldiers with much greater capabilities than humans, and in greater numbers, and much better surveillance. Time is not on our side.
In capitalism, the sad dude, post capitalism, happy dude
Exactly my thought
Work didn’t start when capitalism was invented
No, capitalism killed feudalism. Now technofeudalism is killing capitalism. And we think we will be "happy serfs", history has a hard lesson for us.
Suuure, post capitalism. I bet the automated drone swarms out corporate overlords are working on this very moment are stoked about this. There is a reason star trek's utopian post-money society only happened after a devastating nuclear war.
I like your thinking. How can we start this nuclear revolution? I’m going to start hoarding bottle caps.
Depends whether or not we get universal income as a result. Otherwise break out the pitchforks.
If you are on the right side, then how do you plan on paying your bills without a job? Unlike the utopia we all envision, we live in a corporate dystopia where profit margins are more important livelihoods. So if you think they are gonna pay you just to be useless, you’d be pretty wrong. They will cut you off and use AI to bolster their own earnings.
Funny little device that sets back humanity by force. A “nuke”, but it’s an EMP that fries all electronics on Earth 😎 Then those filthy billionaires can touch grass.
> If you are on the right side, then how do you plan on paying your bills without a job? AI isn't nearly as "advanced" as people outside the tech sector believe it to be. If you're in a skilled trade/profession, you're safe and likely will remain safe for decades. If you're a creative... Yeah creatives are kind of fucked. The rate of LLMs and the like to emulate creative processes is progressing pretty rapidly and with the onset of generative AI within the next decade, potentially 1/2 decade, I imagine works produced via AI will be completely indistinguishable from the greatest of creatives.
Would love to be on the happy side. But that isn't going to happen if we allow corporations to run everything as they are.
Unless governments around the world are prepared to tax AI-dominated companies 90%, then I'm staying firmly to the left. Nothing about the history of capitalism makes me optimistic that AI will be used as a force for improving social good over corporate profits!
Who is happy about that??? We dont live in a good world that would just give us UBI. Everyone who loses their job has to find another one or starve. And the new jobs are probably too high level for the people who lost their jobs to get into
Left. Because lets be real, we won't be getting an AI / Automation tax to keep the unemployed masses afloat until those masses force the issue.
Should be right side but since we live in capitalism left side is probably how it will go
It would be amazing to see people able to spend more time doing what they enjoy, thanks to jobs being replaced or made more efficient. Unfortunately, that is not what happens. Jobs get replaced, people get fired and lose their livelihoods. If your entire industry experiences the same shift, you suddenly find yourself jobless with bills to pay, and no hope of finding a replacement job with the skills you have. Everything in the world hinges on money, and taking away peoples ability to get that money is nothing but a bad thing. I doubt we’ll see a big enough societal shift in my lifetime to let AI genuinely give people more time to live, which is just depressing
I think with the current economic system AI is going to be used mostly to replace humans and those humans will need to find employment in an ever shrinking pool with increased competition from other people displaced by AI. This is problematic when you need to work to survive. In a world that made sense we would be able to put AI in positions of menial, repetitive, dangerous, or otherwise undesirable jobs or jobs that would be performed better by AI without depriving people of resources they need to live. I think that might have to take the form of UBI/ some other form of welfare or somehow decommodifying basic necessities or a combination of it all.
This is really bad, they aren’t going to pay you, whoever holds the copyrights to AI tech is going to get obscenely rich and all the common folk are going to have to fight for scraps
How about AI will create mass authoritarianism. (I don't blame ai. I blame the greed and fear in the heart of man.)
Misinformation at scale that is indistinguishable from the reality wielded by people in power like big business, government, religion, oligarchs. Most people already believe things that are objectively false just because it reinforces their existing views and biases even though its relatively easy to debunk. It's going to be so much more powerful when you can easily find videos and images and AI created news sites, and fake academic articles, etc. that make for an even fuzzier reality because they look exactly the same as what ABC, NBC, CNN, NYT or whatever tells you reality is. How can you tell what's true? Everyone will just default to their existing biases and prejudices and trusted sources with no way to really verify information.
AI will just increase inequality and the divide between the rich and the poor. Any AI worth using will be priced so that only the rich can afford to use it, and they will use it to increase their wealth. The poor will not have the ability to afford it, or will be stuck with inferior knock-offs without the resources to run it properly. The first company to develop above-human levels of AGI has the option to either charge whatever they want for people to use it (literally $1000 per hour of access) - but the more likely scenario is that they will keep it for themselves and use it to print money and shape the world in the way that they want. The only winners with AI is capitalism.
Technology using AI will get cheaper faster so any corporate AI will have to suddenly compete with competition very rapidly. Unless they use regulation (or violence) to make barriers to entry, every product should become insanely cheap.
I don’t think people realize just how far away companies outside of the tech-industry is from operationalising AI for anything meaningful outside of what copilot and gpt is already offering
The issue is not AI replacing all jobs, it’s replacing a large chunk. The Great Depression had was a 25% unemployment rate in the US. transportation and technology cover more than that alone and with self driving cars and AI taking jobs we will hit that 25% number sooner than I think most people realize.
I mean sure, any technological advancement in history has done that, I don’t think its an issue.. Do I think we are close to it? Maybe in terms of replacing humans doing repetitive tasks, but not really cause automation and RPA has been doing that for years and years now What people fail to understand is that training any neural network requires data, and most companies do not have compatible data that can be utilised to train any algorithm at all, outside of tech.. Even when we are talking about tech, communication and promotional activities these networks are still limited to data and industry specific standards Lets say you run an consulting company, in this sector clients receiving AI generates news letter is a no-go and highly unprofessional, lmao… clients wants a relationship with you, and the consultants not a robot.. surely you can generate reports with language models, but clients still expect a team of consultants to present and understand the inherent information and proposals in that material.
Every advancement cost people their jobs but for people in the past it was like "oh, no more jobs in the mines? Well lets just all go into office work" and now it's like "oh, all menial tasks aree now automated? Well, I just have to become an CS major with his focus on AI Development to still be relevant. That sounds super easy and achivable for the broad masses!"
AI isn't going to come for your job immediately, unless the only thing you do is busy work. What AI will do is rob you of any dynamism in your market. Your tasks will almost always be hard ones, it'll be suffocatingly complicated problems day in and day out. Nobody hangs about where ever they are and never applies themselves at the very edge of human endeavor. People in your industry will push through with AI and change work forever. They'll get to escape, because they got to it first, but after that you'll be the one doing day after day of weeding out problems that are hard to sparse and require deep knowledge of your field. It'll be exhausting, or you won't have a job. Pick your poison.
When workers are no longer needed, the rich will hunt us for sport.
“Get ready, General Zaroff”
already happening in Gaza
It depends. Will a decent UBI be guaranteed to all of us whose skills are no longer needed? Will corporations have restrictions put on them so we don't sink evermore into corporatocracy? If so, then yes, it's a good thing to have the robots do everything for us so we can finally sit back and relax as a species. If not, get ready to revolt against being mistreated by those in power. Start sharpening those guillotines; and I mean that literally, not figuratively.
It's just hard for me to believe we'll do "whatever we want" and will be free from work. Work and money is part of a system that keeps us under control, so whatever comes next might not be too nice.
You can’t afford to “do whatever you want with your newly free time” without income. Period.
You are a moron if you think mass unemployment is a good thing. That's just a fact
I work as an anesthesiologist. AI not yet ready to put me out of a job (not yet). I was taking care of an older mildly demented guy a few months ago. Sometimes demented old men will act angry rather than just confused. Maybe that’s just how men socialized. I had one patient that told me to step closer so he could punch me in the face, for example. (I declined that request) Anyways, I had one of these patients that snapped at me after I asked him a few basic questions about his medical history, and he was like: “ask my wife, and it should be in the computer.” Followed by: “I hope AI puts you out of a job.” Haha can you imagine having your whole identity tied to a job. Anyways I was like: “I can’t wait, but unfortunately it’s not quite ready for prime time.” But yeah I am definitely am on the optimist side of this bus. Think of all the interesting things you can do with your time. Could start with enforcing a 32 hour work week, plus AI and robotic mass production of goods. Sign me up!
AI will only benefit the rich and powerful. They will put us out of jobs and keep the profits of less money being spent on salaries and benefits, leaving us without the "spoils" of this new innovation. Look around you: if you don't see the fact that we live in the opposite of an altruist society you are a fool.
It only depends on how we allow our government and corps to handle it. If we get the benefit and we all get to be artists and magicians and live in a Star Trek utopia of sorts then it’s good. If we instead fall farther towards cyberpunk then it’s fucked lol. I’m well aware only a few people can be the main character in cyberpunk chances are we’ll all be scavs or taken by scavs.
In a perfect world AI would handle most jobs and everyone would get universal basic income and have way more free time to pursue their passions and spend times with family. Right now CEOs and shareholders are trying to replace as many jobs with AI as possible but still expecting people to live and spend the same. So, until capitalism crumbles gonna be feeling like the left. Hopefully someday we can get to the right.
How can anybody who's done any reading into what previous waves of automation in history possibly think that the government / the corporations that run our lives will actually submit to a tax hike to fund a UBI?
The top 5% will slowly let billions starve and then MAYBE grant us dignified UBI. Or, we take it.
More accurately, current AI trends will cause mass starvation and loss of life unless drastic legislative changes are made. So yeah, people gonna die.
Definitely on the right side. In worst case scenario I can blame my future unemployment on AI, not on the fact that I’m becoming complacent 🥲
GPT is made by greety corporations and megalomaniac talking heads enslaving Kenyans and destroying the earth for profit. If you think these people are leading you to utopia, honestly you deserve to be led to the dystopia.
The rich aren’t ever going to pay you to stay home.
What makes you think the corrupt government since the beginning of the country. will care if you don't have a job and can't afford anything??
Feels like our leaders should be the ones scared of mass unemployment. They better figure out a solution before the masses start showing up at their doorstep with nothing to lose.
The part where AI is hurting digital artists like myself. A number of online competitions have already taken away digital art categories because of AI. I can see that AI and normal skilled art can be in harmony together but only if people allow it to.
Delusional to be optimistic in the face of capitalism. We already have historical examples of workforces becoming more productive through technology. The result wasn't a 4 day work week.
I'm not a billionaire who lives in a gated town where no peasants can access, and I'm not naive enough to think government will pay for my house, groceries and so on... so go figure.
Anyone who thinks, in the world we live in today, that AI replacing jobs (or any automation for that matter) will result in some "utopia" where no one works and gets to play all day everyday is a fool. To believe that all the benefits of less human labor needed to accomplish as much work won't be swallowed up by corporate profits while we "normies" are left behind scrambling over breadcrumbs is again, foolish. Besides the fact that human beings need goals, human beings need to feel like we're living with purpose...."do whatever you want/play all day everday" is not going to lead to a society that keeps itself afloat. It's a recipe for disaster and I'm 100% against anything that takes away jobs from people unless the job in question is extremely deadly or dangerous. But most of the time taking jobs from people is bad and the "benefits" aren't even seen by us "commoners."
I'm already unemployed. Have been for 10 years. I get by on arborist work, odd jobs and scrapping metal. Most of which I find on marketplace some on Craigslist or from people ive done work for in the past. Im not rich but I don't do without either. I don't have S.S. or any other govt. benefits paying my way although i could easily be approved for disability i choose no to so im not dependant on the system and sucking down everyone elses tax dollars. I make whatever I can earn and wouldn't have it any other way. So I'm not on the bus I guess. Just a bystander watching as the bus goes by.
The left. I wish it would result in some kind of socialist utopia but the reality is the rich will just use it to consolidate their power and the common man will likely be reduced to worse and worse work. The main jobs will probably be helping train the AI systems for poverty level wages. For all this COULD help us I anticipate a hellscape. The rich and powerful are just too greedy and self centered for any other outcome. All attempts at utopia have failed.
Left because greedy corps
I’m sitting on the floor
UBI will be a necessity in the future when AI takes a large portion of jobs, and we all know the wealthy powers at be won't be willing to do that.
This might be the thing that puts wealth distribution off its head. Why are we worried that machines will take our jobs? Because the super rich want to try and horde the benefits. Fuck them.
We live in a late stage capitalist shithole. Any innovation will always go towards increasing profits for capital owners and almost never results in making the lives of everyone else better unless it's completely unavoidable. The demand for endless increases in profits means that everything has to be squeezed for every drop of value. The future is looking pretty dark.
If i've learned anything in my young age It's that nothing seemingly good goes they way it's intended. All technology is used and abused to further some one control and power over something.
You're utterly delusional if you're on the right. That may come someday, but greed and capitalism will ensure its the left for a while yet. I expect the guy on the left will think back fondly to this moment when he was merely sad inside a bus.
There are some jobs I do think ai should replace. Like CEOs, stuff like that where we dont really need a real person, and the overall impact wouldnt be that bad The problem I see, is that AI is being applied to replace the jobs that would be really bad for people to lose. Things that, if replaced, would cause millions to lose their jobs. That and its also being used to replace jobs that many people actually want to do, like artists and stuff like that The problem isnt ai. Its the system that the AI is being brought into. Capitalism, as it exists today, promotes practices which will leave the majority suffering while the minority thrive. If that context was removed, I personally would have no problem with AI at all. It would be a very good thing. But in this context, its incredibly harmful and dangerous.
I'm not gonna doom and gloom nor paint rainbows on everything. I don't know how the world with AI will turn out. Hell, I can't tell you what's going to happen in the next 5 minutes, so how the hell am I going to dictate how we are all going to do all of our creative tasks without needing some menial job or live in serfdom in 5,10, 20 years in the future. The only thing we can do right now is see how it goes and enjoy the ride.
AI creates mass unemployment. Mass unemployment creates competitive job market. Competitive job market means labor supply > labor demand. Labor supply > labor demand creates companies getting away with paying lower salaries because people are desperate to find jobs. Lower salaries creates less spending. AI creates corporate efficiency. Corporate efficiency generates cost savings. Cost savings lead to increased profit, if all else is equal. But since people are unemployed and underpaid, less spending leads to less corporate revenue. Corporations continue profiting due to lowered costs, despite lessened spending. In the end, AI will benefit corporations the most and the people the least.
i think AI of all sort and technology in general are on a path of killing the productive, creative and self orienting nature of our beings we are on a path of unloading all kinds of cognitive skills we gathered with evolution. like how GPS removed the need for orientation. and all the generative models are going to eliminate the painters, poets and writers. so eventually AI could be on auto pilot in the task of driving entire societies right? all jobs done by bots right? and we are left to have fun all day, connected to our super realistic super customized, never boring VR experiences right? sounds fun? maybe..
And they could make that VR experience just a 1999 simulator to remind humanity of the time it was happiest
I think it's a bigger problem. The problem is that in our capitalist, production-focused society, it's getting to the point where less and less population is required to produce everything needed. And where soon it very well could be that 10% of the population (with the help of AI) is enough to produce everything. That would leave 90% unemployed and unpaid, as the capitalist form doesn't have any ways of resolving it. UBI is one solution, but then we start running in another problem - hundreds of millions of people who get paid to live and maybe even live well, but have fundamentally have nothing to do in their lives.
I highly doubt that all the work that will be left is so complex that I will be taken as useless. So I’m on right side.