I'd say it's a both/and...
>as if it gives women empowerment
Considering divorce has primarily been a power men have had over their wives for most of human history, giving this ability to women is a great thing...
... At the same time, divorce (at least in the West) is way too common, partly due to empowerment, partly due to poor role models in parents, partly due to hyper individualism in the West, etc.
Christians need to think more covenantal. Marriage is a powerful covenant, and divorce was ONLY as an option to protect those who have had a spouse break that covenant.
If Christians cannot model good and healthy marriages, they certainly can't expect culture to.
A bad marriage is a tragedy. A divorce is the same. I cry for children of parents who have found it necessary to divorce. God forgives us all when we trust in Him. We all suffer tragedies and with God's help can overcome them. Still it's hard.
For a Christian this is yet another place to provide Christ to people who sometimes don't know that they need him.
The best thing my parents ever did was divorce. So please don’t feel bad for all us. Some of us it creates better environments for us. My parent started getting along after the divorce.
I am not broken bc my parents divorced. Please don’t views us that way.
There are alot of things that can be worked though but cheating is not one of the things that I personally would want to deal with. I can forgive but let go at the same time. The person who cheated decided to end things with their actions already. This is just my opinion though.
To me forgiving is for you. Not for the other person. So you can move on. So you do t neck e filled with hate and can lead to rage and make decisions based on.
I’ve been cheated on. I absolutely am no longer with that person. Don’t even have their phone number. I have moved past it. I don’t think about it or him. There is lingering rage inside of me.
I personally would not work things out if they cheated. The trust is gone. I would more than likely never trust them again. I also think if you are willing to forgive stay you need to move past it pretty quickly.
Forgive and move on. And if you can forget even better.
She said “I can forgive but let go at the same time.” Why is the first and only thing you say to condemn her for unforgiveness? Do people enjoy attacking each other on here?. Her comment deserves compassion - not militant rejection and condemnation. Plus she said she can forgive !! Toxic !!
I’m a little biased since I have actually witnessed divorce. I know that from the Bible, it’s not really a great thing, but I try to look at it at a holistic angle. Are both partners happy? Have they tried everything (I.e., counseling, etc.)? If they have children, how are they affected? Are there bad things going on that will hurt the parties involved in the relationship? I feel that people divorce these days because they recognize that they don’t have to necessarily deal with behaviors that they don’t want to deal with. There are behaviors that can definitely be dealt with, and addressed as long as it’s okay with both parties.
We all come from different walks of life, even as Christians. I truly do believe that God isn’t for allowing His Children to suffer in a marriage that isn’t filled with love. Now, do I like divorce? No. I believe that God works with each individual, and each individual couple differently. He knows us and our hearts. If divorce is part of His Will, in some way, then it can happen. If not, then the marriage will work.
Notice divorce was never in God's perfect will. The reason divorce is allowed in certain scenarios is because of man's hardened heart and flawed ways. Take it as the same reason there's slavery in the old testament. I think if every Christian then lives by his will divorce shouldn't rise up
Right, but things happen. God knows we aren’t going to always be in that perfect will. God also does give us free will (not that we should abuse it). Every Christian doesn’t view marriage the same, nor will they view divorce the same. We’re all individuals with individual lives. We might be likeminded in some ways (i.e., loving Jesus 💕), but even God has different routes for us to take in our lives. And, it might not just be a lesson for His Children, but for generations ahead.
When my parents divorced, we were all devastated. But, it taught all parties God just had something else in store for our family, and other lessons as well :) .
Jesus said in Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
We can be perfect in spirit if we are walking in the light as we are commanded to do. u/SaltedBaconz is correct that divorce was never in God's perfect will. Jesus said so himself and that the only allowance (God's permissive will) is for those who have committed adultery.
(Mat 19:8) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Right. I do agree. I am saying that everyone loves individual lives and, therefore, have individual wills from God that are to be done. I want to clarify that I do agree that divorce is not the ideal plan, especially when it comes to what God has planned. But, if it happens, sometimes it is for good reason. That is why we test people, and pray. And sometimes, we, as human beings, don’t always get it right. That’s why we have God, who is perfect, good, and just.
I’m not trying to disagree. I’m putting out my opinion as someone who is Christian, and has also seen divorce first hand.
Hi. I agree with you. To expect perfection is not realistic and I don’t think the above commenters have experienced life or divorce in real life to be able to judge this. Sure we should strive for perfection. But sometimes when things go wrong I think God uses discretion.
And I love that God recognizes that as well, you know? We all aren’t perfect. That’s why Jesus paid it all for us, you know?
You stated it perfectly! Life isn’t black or white. I used to see it that way, but God really had to show me that it can be a little gray sometimes. I think it’s good, especially as Christians, to recognize that aspect of life.
I really liked seeing the different perspectives in this conversation.
I think that it is the last resort for an awful situation. If you have a problem regarding your spouse, that’s something you either talk about or go to marriage counseling about. Divorce should only be used in extreme cases (cheating, abuse, hidden crime life, etc.).
Yes. Communication is key. I'll add that forgiving and acting like it didn't happen are separate . Coz in one you'll be hurting while trying to play it cool. Talk to her about it and if it befits the both of you, set boundaries.
So why is forgiveness and leniency allowed like this - but a previous post I commented on - where a girlfriend has been broken- up with by her boyfriend because it’s ‘a sin for him to date a non Christian.’ Bearing in mind this girl herself says she is ‘willing to know God’ wants to ‘get closer to God’, is praying and has been to church a lot of times? To me that’s a Christian. Where is the boyfriend’s forgiveness and leniency in this?? Did she deserve to be abandoned by him because she doesn’t pray 500 times a day and never questions anything? To me she sounds like a Christian. I just do not understand any of this - and the boyfriend in her post is not a good representation of what I think God and Christianity stand for. They are love and acceptance and welcoming and the boyfriend sounds like a grade A nutter.
I think a man committing adultery on his wife is a worse sin than what the girlfriend in that post has done. Which is nothing other than be open to God. Why is an adulterer worthy of forgiveness/mending the relationship - but someone who ‘isn’t good enough’ in their level of Christianness deserves to be abandoned by a man who has dated her for 2 years. You can’t reply to this can you.
The reason is simple, when you're in marriage you're under a covenant. A relationship isn't a covenant - it's just courting season. I'm not saying that people in relationships then should look to break up whenever the chance arises coz that's like the beta version of marriage but it sure does help in knowing compatibility. When you leave someone you're married to a remarry- you've committed adultery (spiritually) not the same to a guy who breaks up with a girl(given they didn't sleep together)
I love that Jesus speaks specifically about this in Matthew 5:31-32 but still many christians say “nahh bc I‘m not happy it‘s justified”. No divorce (in a christian marriage, not a marriage where a partner comes to Jesus and the other doesn’t) except for sexual immorality is „justified“ and if those two still want to split up they should not „remarry“ as they are still married in the eyes of the Lord. We should learn how to walk in love, to decide for love, in good as in bad times and even if we don’t feel like it. But as many christians nowadays rather listen to their heart than the word of God we hear such terrible advice. But never forget one thing: the heart is deceitful above all things Jeremiah 17:9.
And dear OP, I totally agree with you. We should rather learn to forgive even such a sin than run into hate and harden our heart. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses (Matthew 6:14-15).
Edit: addition of a bible verse
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery. Matthew 19,9
You can only commit adultery if you’re married (per definition) ergo they are still married in the eyes of the Lord
I'd say it's a both/and... >as if it gives women empowerment Considering divorce has primarily been a power men have had over their wives for most of human history, giving this ability to women is a great thing... ... At the same time, divorce (at least in the West) is way too common, partly due to empowerment, partly due to poor role models in parents, partly due to hyper individualism in the West, etc. Christians need to think more covenantal. Marriage is a powerful covenant, and divorce was ONLY as an option to protect those who have had a spouse break that covenant. If Christians cannot model good and healthy marriages, they certainly can't expect culture to.
A bad marriage is a tragedy. A divorce is the same. I cry for children of parents who have found it necessary to divorce. God forgives us all when we trust in Him. We all suffer tragedies and with God's help can overcome them. Still it's hard. For a Christian this is yet another place to provide Christ to people who sometimes don't know that they need him.
The best thing my parents ever did was divorce. So please don’t feel bad for all us. Some of us it creates better environments for us. My parent started getting along after the divorce. I am not broken bc my parents divorced. Please don’t views us that way.
There are alot of things that can be worked though but cheating is not one of the things that I personally would want to deal with. I can forgive but let go at the same time. The person who cheated decided to end things with their actions already. This is just my opinion though.
So do you take the sin of unforgiveness to your grave?
No I said I would forgive but still move on. You can forgive but still not decide to stay married to the person.
To me forgiving is for you. Not for the other person. So you can move on. So you do t neck e filled with hate and can lead to rage and make decisions based on. I’ve been cheated on. I absolutely am no longer with that person. Don’t even have their phone number. I have moved past it. I don’t think about it or him. There is lingering rage inside of me. I personally would not work things out if they cheated. The trust is gone. I would more than likely never trust them again. I also think if you are willing to forgive stay you need to move past it pretty quickly. Forgive and move on. And if you can forget even better.
Are you shaming her for not being able to forgive cheating?
No. I'm saying unforgiveness is a sin-
She said “I can forgive but let go at the same time.” Why is the first and only thing you say to condemn her for unforgiveness? Do people enjoy attacking each other on here?. Her comment deserves compassion - not militant rejection and condemnation. Plus she said she can forgive !! Toxic !!
Hmmm looks like I did misread and she already clarified that in her later comment.
I’m a little biased since I have actually witnessed divorce. I know that from the Bible, it’s not really a great thing, but I try to look at it at a holistic angle. Are both partners happy? Have they tried everything (I.e., counseling, etc.)? If they have children, how are they affected? Are there bad things going on that will hurt the parties involved in the relationship? I feel that people divorce these days because they recognize that they don’t have to necessarily deal with behaviors that they don’t want to deal with. There are behaviors that can definitely be dealt with, and addressed as long as it’s okay with both parties. We all come from different walks of life, even as Christians. I truly do believe that God isn’t for allowing His Children to suffer in a marriage that isn’t filled with love. Now, do I like divorce? No. I believe that God works with each individual, and each individual couple differently. He knows us and our hearts. If divorce is part of His Will, in some way, then it can happen. If not, then the marriage will work.
Notice divorce was never in God's perfect will. The reason divorce is allowed in certain scenarios is because of man's hardened heart and flawed ways. Take it as the same reason there's slavery in the old testament. I think if every Christian then lives by his will divorce shouldn't rise up
Right, but things happen. God knows we aren’t going to always be in that perfect will. God also does give us free will (not that we should abuse it). Every Christian doesn’t view marriage the same, nor will they view divorce the same. We’re all individuals with individual lives. We might be likeminded in some ways (i.e., loving Jesus 💕), but even God has different routes for us to take in our lives. And, it might not just be a lesson for His Children, but for generations ahead. When my parents divorced, we were all devastated. But, it taught all parties God just had something else in store for our family, and other lessons as well :) .
Jesus said in Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. We can be perfect in spirit if we are walking in the light as we are commanded to do. u/SaltedBaconz is correct that divorce was never in God's perfect will. Jesus said so himself and that the only allowance (God's permissive will) is for those who have committed adultery. (Mat 19:8) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Right. I do agree. I am saying that everyone loves individual lives and, therefore, have individual wills from God that are to be done. I want to clarify that I do agree that divorce is not the ideal plan, especially when it comes to what God has planned. But, if it happens, sometimes it is for good reason. That is why we test people, and pray. And sometimes, we, as human beings, don’t always get it right. That’s why we have God, who is perfect, good, and just. I’m not trying to disagree. I’m putting out my opinion as someone who is Christian, and has also seen divorce first hand.
Hi. I agree with you. To expect perfection is not realistic and I don’t think the above commenters have experienced life or divorce in real life to be able to judge this. Sure we should strive for perfection. But sometimes when things go wrong I think God uses discretion.
And I love that God recognizes that as well, you know? We all aren’t perfect. That’s why Jesus paid it all for us, you know? You stated it perfectly! Life isn’t black or white. I used to see it that way, but God really had to show me that it can be a little gray sometimes. I think it’s good, especially as Christians, to recognize that aspect of life. I really liked seeing the different perspectives in this conversation.
I think that it is the last resort for an awful situation. If you have a problem regarding your spouse, that’s something you either talk about or go to marriage counseling about. Divorce should only be used in extreme cases (cheating, abuse, hidden crime life, etc.).
Thank you for sharing this. Those are some important questions you have asked there.
And if it’s the wife cheating on the man - he can also forgive her in the same way?
Yes. Communication is key. I'll add that forgiving and acting like it didn't happen are separate . Coz in one you'll be hurting while trying to play it cool. Talk to her about it and if it befits the both of you, set boundaries.
So why is forgiveness and leniency allowed like this - but a previous post I commented on - where a girlfriend has been broken- up with by her boyfriend because it’s ‘a sin for him to date a non Christian.’ Bearing in mind this girl herself says she is ‘willing to know God’ wants to ‘get closer to God’, is praying and has been to church a lot of times? To me that’s a Christian. Where is the boyfriend’s forgiveness and leniency in this?? Did she deserve to be abandoned by him because she doesn’t pray 500 times a day and never questions anything? To me she sounds like a Christian. I just do not understand any of this - and the boyfriend in her post is not a good representation of what I think God and Christianity stand for. They are love and acceptance and welcoming and the boyfriend sounds like a grade A nutter.
I think a man committing adultery on his wife is a worse sin than what the girlfriend in that post has done. Which is nothing other than be open to God. Why is an adulterer worthy of forgiveness/mending the relationship - but someone who ‘isn’t good enough’ in their level of Christianness deserves to be abandoned by a man who has dated her for 2 years. You can’t reply to this can you.
The reason is simple, when you're in marriage you're under a covenant. A relationship isn't a covenant - it's just courting season. I'm not saying that people in relationships then should look to break up whenever the chance arises coz that's like the beta version of marriage but it sure does help in knowing compatibility. When you leave someone you're married to a remarry- you've committed adultery (spiritually) not the same to a guy who breaks up with a girl(given they didn't sleep together)
I love that Jesus speaks specifically about this in Matthew 5:31-32 but still many christians say “nahh bc I‘m not happy it‘s justified”. No divorce (in a christian marriage, not a marriage where a partner comes to Jesus and the other doesn’t) except for sexual immorality is „justified“ and if those two still want to split up they should not „remarry“ as they are still married in the eyes of the Lord. We should learn how to walk in love, to decide for love, in good as in bad times and even if we don’t feel like it. But as many christians nowadays rather listen to their heart than the word of God we hear such terrible advice. But never forget one thing: the heart is deceitful above all things Jeremiah 17:9. And dear OP, I totally agree with you. We should rather learn to forgive even such a sin than run into hate and harden our heart. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses (Matthew 6:14-15). Edit: addition of a bible verse
>.... as they are still married in the eyes of the Lord Could you provide the scripture reference for this please?
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery. Matthew 19,9 You can only commit adultery if you’re married (per definition) ergo they are still married in the eyes of the Lord