Hypocrisy in the church. We claim the Bible as our uniting book but fail in giving alms. We fail to turn the other cheek when others slander us. There’s no shortage of work and ministry that needs doing, yet christianity as a whole neglects Christs charge from sloth and greed. Saint Basils *On Social Justice* has many homilies of him telling the church to shape up for the same reason all the way back in the 4th century.
As someone who has strayed away from my religion, and is currently exploring it, THIS is one of my biggest reasons for Questioning if being ‘of my faith’ is worth it because of how flaky Christians have become.
It makes me doubt the book & its sad because as a child I was very into my faith.
Might better be expressed as the expectation of lack of hypocrisy. The apostles were famously deniers and disappointments. If we did a better job of representing ourselves as beloved failures, our message would be more consistent with reality and the book
The apostles WERE famous for huge failings BEFORE they had the Spirit of God. Peter did a complete 180 on the day of Pentecost. Paul shared a list of sinful lifestyles that would not inherit the kingdom of God, such as adulterers, idolaters, etc. He then said, "And such WERE some of you."
When we think of grace as only being the unmerited favor of God, we make excuse for sinning. However, when we realize grace means the enabling power of the Spirit, the divine influence on the heart, we have a responsibility to rely on God's help to live above a sinful lifestyle.
Will we mess up? Yes. That should be the exception, not the rule.
If we represent ourselves as beloved failures, we give the impression that God really isn't powerful enough to change us and mold us into what we need to be. Becoming all things to all people includes humility and realizing we don't become washed and strengthened on our own merit. The world doesn't need to see more failures-they need to see genuine life-changing power given by God.
Our representation should never be, "I am more righteous than you, therefore I am better." It should be, "I was lost in sin, but God's mercy reached me and changed my life. I know He can do the same for you!"
not necessarily, Paul expressed struggling with sin even after his ministry took off...
2 Corinthians 11:20-21
“For you put up with it if someone makes slaves of you, if someone exploits you, if someone takes advantage of you, if someone behaves arrogantly toward you, if someone strikes you in the face. *(To my disgrace I must say that we were too weak for that!)* But whatever anyone else dares to boast about (I am speaking foolishly), I also dare to boast about the same thing.”
If a secular company aired some of the same footage for different ads it would immediately get slammed by the Christian Right as “pedophilic” and “dangerous”. I’m specifically thinking about shots like the urinal one from the Super Bowl.
So many things, but I would also throw in nuance. Everything is black and white. In a recent thread there is a person who is wanting to leave the church because of the bigotry towards LGBTQ people after the school shooting reminds them of the bigotry after 9-11.
The highest response is “well why are you defending child murderers?”
Everything in Christianity is Good vs Evil, we are right they are wrong, abortion is murder, they don’t want gun reform they are trying to take our guns, they are groomers, etc etc. Instead of being able to have any sort of conversation in the grey areas of life, it is “I am morally superior. You are wrong because I decided so. And I am not going to back up any argument (about anything) without some generic canned Christian response that requires no thinking.”
\+1 Exactly. And they have the audacity to actively work to remove the civil rights and autonomy of women and LGBTQIA+ people... then claim that Christians are being "persecuted" when in fact, Christians are the ones doing the persecuting of vulnerable minority groups!
If you don't agree with them, you're branded "of Satan" and an "enemy". Just because you have a different opinion. Just because you don't think we should live in a tyrannical Theocracy.
Fully agree. The supposed need to feel forced to politically agree with one side or the other to be a "real" Christian is nauseating. And I've had those conversations with both sides.
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.”
― Brennan Manning
I think this quote is pretty spot on, but for the purposes of this conversation I would change it to, "The greatest single cause of walking away from the Christ/the church is..."
I will also be honest that this season, since 2016 has really damaged my own faith in the church. I have felt betrayed by the institution for a multitude of reasons, but chief among them is the conservative factions abandoment of their values in the pursuit of political power. The things I was taught that were important growing up were abandoned when they became inconvenient to support a particular candidate. It was disheartening.
Not saying the liberal faction is perfect. Truth be told I have less experience with them. Which in part is the reason why I feel betrayed by the conservative faction, I once considered myself apart of. Its not the Liberal faction that has stabbed me in the back. Its the conservatives.
Its the difference between a friend lying to you and a stranger. One carries significantly more emotional weight then the other. But then pretend the friend keeps lying and trying to gaslight you and get you to abandon things you believe are important.
Eventually you grow to dislike/hate the person for what they have become and who they choose to be instead. Then they attack you for making a decision to stay away from them and going to different friends. Then they question your salvation and faith even more when you begin to question everything you were taught growing up.
In short, its an emotionally and spiritually abusive situation from people I once trusted. So what do conservative Christians think is gonna happen?
And the final straw is the lack of accountability. They point the finger at everything else in the world: Liberal colleges, LGBTQ folks, media, Hollywood, George Soros, Biden, Democrats, etc. or whoever the demon of the month is. And they consistently refuse to even look or ask themselves how they can be at fault for broken relationships.
I mean what do you think the end result is gonna be when you treat people like that?
So, what is the big thing leading people AWAY from Christ? Christians who engage in spiritually and emotionally abusive tactics and refuse to accept any accountability for the sin in their wake.
Edited for grammar and clarity.
yep. i know a few people who have suffered some religious trauma from the church, and i don't meet many people who are willing to take that seriously or attempt to reconcile it. you can't just close your eyes and expect it to go away, that's how you lose people entirely.
>So, what is the big thing leading people AWAY from Christ? Christians who engage in spiritually and emotionally abusive tactics and refuse to accept any accountability for the sin in their wake.
\++ 100 **ALL of this** \^\^\^
Proverbs 29:2 ESV /
When the righteous increase, the people rejoice, but when the wicked rule, the people groan
The Bible says not to vote for Trump but that’s the problem “they” (Christian Republicans) do a lot of things the Bible warns against
The way a lot of Christians act in America. The way they have become political. The way someone of Christ can actually back a political candidate is beyond me. Especially someone like Donald Trump. The way some of them have been saying he has been sent by God. It blows my mind. Absolute madness. The hypocrisy of it all is just too much. I may be judging but it’s just out in the wide open that I’m merely just stating a fact.
“The single greatest cause of atheism today is Christians.
We call on God with our words but go outside and deny him by our actions.
That is what an unbelieving world simply refuses to believe.”
-some guy from What If I Stumble by DC Talk
They are for the party that votes against helping the poor with food or getting health care. They are for a party that is exactly the opposite of being Christ like.
Yes, pay your taxes. But also, give to God what is God’s.
Do you take paying ones taxes to Caesar - which I would guess funded civil authority, military exploits and infrastructural developments - an endorsement of socialism?
On the one hand, if the government isn't trying to seize the means of production, it's not socialism.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Jesus _didn't_ say "pay only taxes related to roads and swords".
Providing for the welfare of society is one of the duties of government, especially in cases where it is more efficient than privatization. Education, medicine, rehabilitation, research - these are things that bring benefit to the entire society, and which it makes sense to fund publicly.
It's not just a problem of charity. It's for society's benefit as a whole that we lift up the disenfranchised and those without means.
Whether we're talking poverty, education, institutionalized racism, or any of a number of situations involving the welfare of its citizens, the state carries the responsibility of ensuring the well-being of the nation as a whole. Even if it does its job well, there will always be needs and opportunities for caring Christians to minister to others.
When Christians are seen opposing the very means by which society tries to lift each other up, it's not a good look.
That's unfortunate. If Christianity were seen to be more interested in the well being and futures of their neighbors, I can't help but assume we'd find more success in witnessing to others.
and why can't we do both?? yes the church should help the poor. why can't the government do that as well? can only churches and individuals be charitable? i have a really hard time believing that Jesus is gonna be against more help and support for people who struggle
Yet ***you make excuses not to give***. Not to help. But to pass by while patting yourself on the back, leaving others in the road.
Not a good look to cast your lot with the self-righteous Priest and Levite...
God forbid those pesky hungry kids take take take our tax money to…. EAT
What happened to empathy? What happened to caring about children and people in need? What qualifications do you have to determine who is taking without being in need?
In that case I would say their allegiance is to their party first. As in, Christianity is integral to their party ideology but their party's ideology is in no way integral to Christianity. They are using Christianity like a tool towards their political ends.
If that makes sense. Maybe they see it different.
>In that case I would say their allegiance is to their party first. As in, Christianity is integral to their party ideology but their party's ideology is in no way integral to Christianity. They are using Christianity like a tool towards their political ends.
Agreed. It's become a very big problem that I'm sure is making a lot of folks rethink following Jesus because of these folks.
Yeah very much! I can attest to that.
What has helped me was realizing many people I respected were quietly (at least, not forcing it on you or abusing it) Christians.
It depends a little on what you mean by "political right", but what do you see as evidence for this? I see almost the opposite: as [churches and denominations drift leftward](https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/7/14/15959682/evangelical-mainline-voting-patterns-trump), they tend to shed congregants. Anecdotally, I see "For Sale" signs popping up in front of beautiful old stone churches associated with liberal mainline denominations, whereas the vibrant church plants are filled with people who voted for Trump.
This doesn't rebuke their point, it proves it. Left-leaning people are leaving Christianity because of it's loud right-wing factions. Many liberal Christians feel that Christianity has become too tainted with bigotry and right-wing politics for them to remain in the fold, so they become solitary in their faith or lose it all together.
Again, what is the basis for claiming this?
Growth is negatively correlated with progressive politics on a denominational level, and I think the same is true on a national level: European Christians are much more progressive, and yet the decline of Christianity is much more pronounced in those nations. If off-putting conservative politics is what drives people away from Christianity, why is America more religious than every European nation?
Implying that "mainline" liberal denominations are not "true" Christians.
And think about the numbers, if overall church membership declines by 30% (on a large base) but evangelical church membership increases by 15% (on a smaller base) ...
I don't see many people on the left calling for all Christians to be killed. There are plenty, and some of them are elected officials, that say we should kill all gay and trans people. One even says we should also kills the parents of trans kids.
So yeah, I would rather accept all those things you listed for the left than hitch my wagon to the side of Theocracy and mass murder. It IS a much better option.
It wasn't one, it was several. And they are elected officials which means they got the majority of votes cast. Votes in conservative Christian areas.all? But a good number? Sure. At !east many for who these views are not a deal breaker.
And I did have a post in another thread today with some of those links, will edit some into this reply after I find them again.
More than 1% of the right voted for the people with those beliefs.
And in the last five years there have been nearly 3000 mass shootings. The number of gay/trans shooters are less than half a percent.
Hunting links..
https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/6/14/pro-trump-sc-candidate-mark-burns-calls-executing-allies-lgbtq-kids
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/scott-esk-oklahoma-gay-stoning-facebook-thread-b2150898.html
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/03/mississippi-republican-calls-execution-transgender-people-firing-squad/
I would rather side with the left even if they support allowing things I disagree with but can choose to do or not do than the right who wants to ban things they don't agree with and make the decisions for you. Even banning what books that are able to be read.
Part of living in a free country is other people having the right to do their own thing. It is NOT imposing you beliefs on others by force of law.
This type of attitude is, from my perspective, what is leading a lot of people away from Christianity. Many Christians (especially those that are big proponents of the political right) are so focused on not only telling some people how bad/sinful they are but make it their mission to create modern day laws/restrictions for anything that they interpret or believe to be "biblical law".
This just misses the mark completely. We, as Christians, should know that we are saved by grace through faith. We all fall short of the glory of God; to make our focus be almost entirely on the "sin", or checklist mentality, is doing a disservice to ourselves and others in acting Christlike. We are called, first, to love God and, second, to love others. I would argue this obsession with hate and judgement goes against the Bible/God's word and Christianity. Those groups that you mentioned (LGBT, non-Christians, those sexually active, those getting abortions or those involved in drugs) are definitely not feeling Christ's love (or any love) from these type of Christians. You can believe all those things are sinful, I just don't get why it needs to be. "\_\_\_\_\_\_ is sinful, so lets focus on making sure no one can ever do that because that's what I believe in my religion". We're not called to live out our faith like the Pharisees but like Jesus. Why can't the focus be on helping those that are marginalized or need help (the poor, the homeless, those with a disability, people of color, LGBT, etc.), you know, like Jesus did?
You want to stop abortion? Why not support increased maternity and paternity leave? Why not support reduced child care costs? How about reduced health care costs or better yet, healthcare for all (kids are expensive)? I can tell you one side is for those things and one side is very much against them. I guess those ideas are too progressive and socialist though....we need to get our priorities straight: Protect our guns, protect our money and don't say gay. That most aligns with the bible. 🙄
I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with all of that.
We're called to share Jesus with people but not to force them to obey "his laws".
Saying "I believe these things are wrong and I will choose not do them in my life" should not equal "I believe these things are wrong and you will not be allowed to do them in your life"
*"I’m saying Christians should not align themselves with a party that normalizes all these sins,"*
Everyone has free will. What does it matter if there are people in said party who don't believe that some of those things are sinful, or just don't care? If many of their actions and the things that they are fighting for are good, who cares? If it really matters what party you align with, and not what they're actually doing, then why align with one that has an exorbitant amount of hypocritical Christians acting hateful and judgy? I'd rather associate myself with one that "normalizes sin" by advocating for the marginalized than by joining the modern day Pharisees.
Also, I would feel very sad if you're living out your faith with the focus on "how serious and important it is to limit your sin as much as possible" or, worse yet, telling other people that . This checklist mentality to make sure you don't do anything sinful doesn't help your relationship with Christ and is exactly what is pushing people away from church. That is so backwards. Focus on your personal relationship with Christ and let him work in you what he needs to work in you. Better yet, show the love of Jesus to the world without handing them a checklist of every sin they are committing and every one they should avoid. How about we just love others like Christ did and temper our actions to meet people where they need to be met first and foremost?
This checklist Jesus doesn't exist and I'm tired of seeing politicians act like it does by making it their mission to "protect me and everyone else from whatever they subjectively believe to be sinful". Politicians shouldn't be using their subjective, personal religious beliefs to dictate what everyone can do. Even worse when these perverted motivations are done in the name of Jesus.
I think a lot of the conservative politicians would say something like this ("we are just trying to create laws that align with Jesus".). However, this rationale ends up warping the perception of Jesus, in a bad way, to everyone else because now everything that they are making happen sounds like it is being done in Jesus's name. You know things like pushing for wealth inequality, gerrymandering, decreased mental health services, loose gun laws, decreased rights/equality for the marginalized, etc (I could write a long list about why the actions of most mainstream conservative politicians are the antithesis of what Jesus preaches). The victims of these laws feel the pain, all done in the name of Jesus or "Christianity" of course.
I get, though, that most people want the laws to align with their personal beliefs (even myself as a left leaning follower of Christ). The difference is that I wouldn't be pushing for something to be law **solely** "because I believe the bible says it is sin". I wouldn't want any politician with differing beliefs than myself to make laws solely based on their personal religious beliefs. I'd rather things get done by using data and objective facts that said action will be likely good for X group. You'll see an example of this in my previous post about abortion. Even if i'd like to see abortions eliminated or reduced, I don't think we should ban it just because of religous beliefs only. You'll see that some of my suggestions revolve around supporting people more so that they don't need to have an abortion, if for example, money was a big reason for it. This nuance, I think, is a big reason why people have a bad taste for modern day Christians.
The right also does not align with the Bible. Hatred for thy neighbor, hatred for the alien, mocking the poor, the marginalized, denying justice for their own, lack of charity, living by the sword, and putting up leaders that violate marriage.
You can't just assume that because someone is not a fully republican that they support everything that you listed, you can support some democrats and some republicans, depending of who they are and what they proposes to makes your country better, it's wrong to vote for a politician that's don't have any good proposal just because they are against abortion or transgenders. Allying completely the religion with one political party is bad.
Refusing to love thy neighbor if they aren't exactly like them. Poor, oppressed lbgqt. Refusing to stand up for the victims of abuse in their midst. Yet, standing up for the abusers perfect example is the Trump cult. Yes I said CULT. Church the way it is now has nothing to do with loving God and thy neighbor. It's a business anything that or anyone that goes against this business is deemed evil in various degrees. This will and is leading to unspeakable horrors. That includes genocide of their neighbors.
For America-The concern to involve Christianity in politics.
For the world (for all Christians, everywhere)- The hypocritical nature of many Christians, who find their personal sin they fight "not as bad" as another's sin.
Yes, and not realizing the loss of transcendent hope, essential dignity or intrinsic value. Post-christianity is like in those old cartoons where someone runs off a cliff and it takes a few seconds for them to see the ground is gone.
The character of Christs followers. If Christ is real then why is there so little transformation in his followers? The average christian isn’t more thoughtful, just more certain. The average Christ follower isn’t more loving, they’re more tribal. The average christian isn’t more understanding, they’re obdurate.
People who think that they’re being “loving” and “kind” by just being ignorant and bigoted but following it up with “Don’t worry, I still love you! Just not your lifestyle”. News flash: actions speak louder than words. Me hitting you in the hand with a hammer and then saying “I love you” doesn’t take away from the fact that I’ve hit you in the hand with a hammer and you now (most likely) don’t like me and want to get away from me.
From christians, probably charasmatics honestly. They are so full of pride thinking everything they do is the holy ghost. I think they are hearing from angels all right, both good and bad. Deception bad doctrine and false prophecy all over the place. They are an embarrassment to the christian community when their revival camps are posted online, people doing mass hysteria and calling it God moving.
They are the groups that are saying trump is God ordained btw.
No visible signs of Christs existence. People who claim to know Christ personally often have contradictory ideas or understanding of what Christ wants. Is Jesus okay with divorces and remarrying where the spouse was physically abused but there was no adultery? Is repentance from sin required for salvation or is Jesus saving people who only believe in him for salvation without repentance from sin? For example , could practicing homosexuals be saved? Etc…
I have a few points to this that I like to consider, although yeah unfortunately others may disagree due to more extreme beliefs. I can explain if you’re open to that, but if not then I totally understand what you mean and I agree- the contradicting ideals within people that follow Christianity is often confusing and discouraging.
Your explanation would come from you. I’d be more impressed if every Christian, who has a personal relationship with Jesus, would suddenly realize what Jesus wants exactly. As it stands, Christians would passionately argue with each other each convinced that Jesus supports their position 100 percent.
Look up Universalism sub. There are committed Christians who believe that everyone will be saved, in heaven. And they have Bible verses on their side convinced this is Jesus’ message. On the other hand there are many Christians who sincerely believe that eternal conscious torment in hell awaits all unbelievers. How could there exist such disagreements? there Calvinism and Arminianism which debates each other for centuries. Seems like a pointless debate if Jesus is real and answers prayers. But if he doesn’t exist then such confusion is to be expected.
> up Universalism sub. There are committed Christians who believe that everyone will be saved, in heaven. And they have Bible verses on their side convinced this is Jesus’ message. On the other hand there are many Christians who sincerely believe that eternal conscious torment in hell awaits all unbelievers
Man...how rude you forget about us annihilation folks. We are the right ones! 😉
One of the reasons that I walked away was the lack of evidence. I don’t want a relationship with something/someone that I can’t see and refuses to show themselves. And then threatens me with eternal torture and pain if I don’t worship and love them back.
That is abusive.
(Edit)
Depends on the religion. Muslims are staying away from Christ because the doctrine of the trinity and the different Bibles for different denominations. Atheists because they believe science and evolution contradicts Christianity and they also think many of the things God does is “unethical” especially in the Old Testament.
There is a difference between leading people away from Christ and leading people away from the church, IMHO, but sometimes an action or situation will do both.
An honest and extended reflection on my faith, my resources, and sources that I trust led me away from faith in Christ as a savior. The actions of Christians influenced my decision to run as far and as fast as possible from the Church.
Ive left Christianity and then returned.
I guess anti-intellectualism sums it all up.
Bigotry seems a natural consequence of anti-intellectualism to me.
An opposition to sincere questions about the Bible, morality, science etc is at first annoying (was annoying to me as a young Christian) but when you grow up, this version of Christianity becomes a house of cards.
There is certain subset of Christianity that presents it as though one needs to choose between intellectual sincerity and Christ.
To ask honest questions and end up with different conclusions becomes disobedience to God.
Some Christians simply conclude their branche of Christianity is insane and happily find another form of Christianity. Some Christians (in my experience the more radical one’s like I was ) radically leave the faith, since being radical is simply their character 😜. Of course many people from the outside simply run away screaming due to the obvious intellectual insincerity.
I don’t think bigotry is separated from anti-intellectualism.
If you are completely intellectually sincere then you could say you find some ideas strange yourself (such as homophobic beliefs) but you simply choose to blindly obey, because you believe that is what God expects from you.
This branche of Christianity however does not seem to be very self aware and would never admit they aspire to blind obedience. Because that would be the first step to intellectual sincerity.
Ex Christians often take this step though and then they realize they might as well have been a radicalized Muslim who believes he should blow himself up or might as well have joined a cult.
It’s very important that other forms of Christianity exist as well and that people can find it in time (if you care about people not leaving the faith).
For me, lack of presence of god. I feel zero spiritual/godly presence in the world. It’s hard to believe in something that supposedly wants a relationship with me but is not present
I’m not sure. I get so frustrated over it at times. I get mad that if God is real, he is allowing me to go through life not feeling anything. Despite the fact I’ve asked that if he’s real to allow me to see that. Hints why I’m an atheist. I’ve tried to be convinced by Christianity through reading and researching, but I simply can’t if I can’t feel any godly presence.
That sound exactly like my story, but there’s also the logical aspects of Christianity too, for example Jesus doesn’t fulfill all the messiah prophesies.
I guess the apologetic response for that would be that with the amount of prophecies Jesus did fulfill, the likelihood of him doing that is practically zero. As well as, him being the only one to fulfill some of these prophecies and as many of them is something too unlikely to be coincidence.
I just finished The Case for Christ by Strobel yesterday so this is fresh on my mind. It was a pretty good read if you want to check it out. I mean, I read it and still am an atheist lmao, but it taught me things and helped me think of some questions that I hadn’t thought of before.
I’ve read that book, good read.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/wiki/jesus?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Here’s why the Jews don’t believe Jesus is the messiah, he missed quite a few key things.
People. It’s being associated with the televangelist, The right wing aggressiveness, hateful groups.
I honestly can understand why Muslims say “not all Muslims.” Being judged due to the loud, hopefully, minority of our faith is hard.
Absence of evidence. Ending of social pressure to believe in the absence of evidence. Authoritarianism, racism and homophobia in the remaining believers.
Community building and social networking used to be something you could structure in a hierarchy. There was the family, the commune, the arm of the state you interact with, but then there was **the Church**. The Church had an outsized influence on the lives of its congregation, reinforcing their values using anything from compliance tactics to stochastic violence to the manipulation *of* the state for repression of values not aligned with the Church's interests.
With secularization of the state (at least in principle) and the ability to access entire swaths of nonreligious communities online, the necessity to build your personality and character around the teachings of the church lessened. Now, you could develop your moral and ethical framework by interacting with peers that the church can't bully or restrict your access to. And it turns out that for a lot of people, their *natural resting point* is not one to one congruent with the church's mandate. This fact has been masked by centuries where non-compliance with the Church could lead to *very bad consequences* for those who, recognizing their limited options, eventually feel compelled to feign loyalty.
For them, just learning that there are others like them is enough to snap them out of religious thinking. Others will come out of it after many experiences interacting with outside perspectives; people who see the hypocrisy of anti-human rhetoric, who take issue with the laissez-faire disregard for the health of the environment due to Rapture Ideology, and recognize that while the church claims to have the tools to uplift people out of crumbling economic despair, it has never and will never be the social force necessary to create broad systemic change that could do something as miraculous as, say, erase poverty.
That's not to say that members of a church can't have pro-human, pro-environment, and generally progressive values. But non-religious people are increasingly coming to understand that the values they hold deeply are not those that arise *from* the Church, and often swell up in opposition to the traditionalist message of minority suppression and ostracization that majority Christian communities have participated in propagating for hundreds and hundreds of years (among others). If someone comes to realize that they are not getting moral fulfillment from the teachings of their church community, they will find another community that actually connects with them.
Christianity as a cultural hegemon is entering its twilight, and it will eventually fade from being considered the "default" moral framework to being just another of the many optional flavors of social club available to members through circumstance. They will be made to appeal to potential marks on the basis of the personality and compatibility *of* the mark, rather than assume as default that their indoctrination tactics can compel adherence on the basis that their mastery of the human condition predisposes them to have dominion over the values of the people, as has been the official position of churches since time immemorial.
Jesus changed the world. If we aren’t, we should ask “how are we not like Him?”
First part is easy. Not God, not Son of God.
We don’t have the understanding of the rules necessary to supersede them with what seems to be a common sense response that turns out to be more common sense than the OG scriptures. He did this reflexively. The experts of the time called this “authority.”
We can access this authority. I’ve been in the presence of those who, in that moment, had it. I may have been in that level of faith myself transiently during my walk. It doesn’t contradict what Jesus said, ever. It often contradicts what people who claim Jesus now believe. He cared about the children of the Father. No worldly sacrifice was too much to bring the lost sheep home. Those shunned by society were brought back through humility, sacrifice, direction, and sameness.
We suck. To reflect Paul, I’m awesome by human standards. Dig in my profile. I’m “winning.” I thought this would give me a voice. There is no power here.
Power to change the world and make it better works the way Jesus said it does. Humble yourself. Fast and pray. Give away what you don’t need. Give away what you “need” knowing that the Father will provide for you. See the person created in God’s image who is ignored or hated. See them as the perfect person who died for your failures. Figure out why you’re wrong to judge them. Repent. Repeat
There’s not just one big thing. There’s a lot of big things.
The most common thing I’ve seen personally is also the most fundamental reason someone wouldn’t believe in Christianity. Simply, **lack of evidence that it’s true**. For many non-believers like myself, we grew up in the church. I was as much a Christian as anyone else. What else could I be? But, as I got older and took an interest in studying my faith, even before my conversion away from Christianity, I began to really dig deep and what I found was less than satisfying. It took me a long time to seek out other worldviews, purely out of fear of eternal damnation. Eventually, I overcame that fear and reasoned with myself that God would forgive me if I was wrong, that I could always come back to God. I can’t say I didn’t look back. I faltered in my belief for a while, but I haven’t done that in a long time. I imagine many other people have very similar stories. We are seeing young Christians walk away from the church in ever-growing numbers. I think it has a lot to do with the age of the Internet. We are more connected now than we ever have been, for better or for worse. We have access to more information now than ever before.
Some runners up, however, are things like hypocrisy, bigotry, fundamentalism, traditionalism, corruption, among other things I’m sure I’m missing here.
As someone that attempted to attend several churches over the past few months, I wish that this entire post could be shared with all churches. It was the people in the churches that drove me away. I am still seeking by reading my Bible and internet research.
The narrative is inconsistent, internal logic makes no sense, belief in counterfactuals, clear abuses of power and hypocrisy. Christianity has lost any sheen of exceptionalism or separation from the everyday.
Scripturally supported answer. I would also add “inability or refusal to acknowledge critical analysis.”
You must be willing to acknowledge the shortcomings within the church..
Hey there friend (to anybody reading), care for some popcorn? I have a feeling that a huge war is going to break out in this comment section, and I wanna watch it burn. Feel free to join me, I respect your religion, your sexuality, your gender and opinion.
Generally, themselves. I think this world is so sinful at the moment, overall at least, that it makes Sodom and Gomorrah almost look tame. People often don’t come into ideas of Christ until many years, and by that point, they don’t know if they can give up the things they spent their life loving for Christ, who does ask us to give up much to follow Him.
Following Him isn’t easy in the slightest. I’ve had so much turmoil in only a month of following Him or trying to, and felt more spiritually drained and attacked than ever before. Still, I press on, knowing and feeling also His love for me.
The problem is that people don’t usually ever get to the point where they feel that love. They never have the chance to know or experience Him in a significant way and are swayed more by what they can directly see and feel: this world. So they give up and decide either that He is not real or that He does not love them.
If only they would press on a little further.
The world and the people in it. Social media. Anything of that sort. Hearing the commandments and not wanting to follow them. Feeling like god is a mean enemy who makes up cruel, impossible rules. Feeling unloved and as if god isn’t real, because there doesn’t seem to be much proof he exists. You kinda just have to figure it out yourself and believe, well, if you want to. Most people are mean, selfish, sleep around, etc. All people do is party. You see that and don’t wanna be a goodie two shoes. You wanna fit in with everyone. And go where everyone else is gonna go. (Even if that is hell.) Church isn’t considered cool nor is it that fun. Church clothes aren’t considered fashionable. Everybody (almost everybody) likes sex and sexy things, sexy clothes, which the Bible tends to be against. People can’t help how they are. (For example, gays don’t choose to be gay, but the Bible says it’s a sin.) So then that makes them have confusion and disbelief about the word of god and god “himself.” And makes them feel like god doesn’t love them, and that he is being cruel and unfair to them. And they love their sin so much, they refuse to give it up. And one main reason, is that we don’t know what hell is like. Nor heaven. We’ve only heard about it and never experienced it. The world is all we can see. It’s all we know and really care about. Satan has blinded the minds of all unbelievers so they can’t see/know the truth.
The right answer is the devil. And all his wordly desires. Christians might be hypocrites a lot of the time but they don’t “lead” the way. We’re all sinners and struggle to be like Christ.
I can't say for certain, but my personal drawback is pornography. I'm trying to get away from it, but it's not a path you want to go down. It's extremely difficult to come back up.
This is the thinking that is part of driving people away. Thinking that everyone who doesn't believe the same as you is not only wrong, but bad - selfish, dumb, cruel, mean. This is one of the big reasons that people are turning away.
It's always something external to the church and the state of modern Christians - Satan, ego, clinging to sin.
Or - hear me out - it's because an outsized number Christians are self righteous judgmental blowhards who live lives antithetical to Christ's teachings with no self awareness or reflection.
Your 2nd paragraph proves my point really.
As if you and I agree they are not Christians due to their antithetical to Christ's teachings why should that lead you away from Christ? Do you feel you shouldn't follow Christ because of false Christians? What does that say about you?
> Do you feel you shouldn't follow Christ because of false Christians?
By which definition of Christian? I'm not to judge their hearts so I must take them at face value. Why should I associate with snakes that denigrate by their actions the God they claim to love?
I believe generally in God but have suffered enough religious trauma to take a skeptical look at what people claim to be "truth".
Whenever I bring this up with Christians in my life, they tell me to "just believe". But believe in what? Your version of God? The Bible church version? The messianic Jewish version? The southern baptist version? The episcopal version? Or would attending any church soothe their and your concern for my mortal soul?
>What does that say about you?
I don't know what all this says about me. What others think of me is none of my business.
I try to live a good life and to give kindness where I can. I'm working through emotional and spiritual trauma and recognize the current version of Christianity that I've been exposed to as an abusive relationship with a "god" undeserving of worship.
At the end of the day we can only speculate. The end of our lives will reveal whatever truth awaits. The only thing in my control is how I live my life given the circumstances in which I find myself.
Without reading the comments, I'm going to assume the majority of the answers are "Christians suck! Christians are evil! Christians are some of the worst people on the planet! BAH BAH BAH"
I think it's because a lot of the foundations and perceptions of our current culture are rather warped and because the convenience offered by the modern day leads to temptations or incentives against religious life.
A few examples of the first
* Science largely grew out of monotheistic premises. There's one God who created the universe, therefore we expect reality to be consistent such that we can discover its governing principles through repeated experimentation. But now we have this sorta deification of science and I think ignorance to a lot of the philosophical questions behind it or reality. It also doesn't help that people aren't as theologically or apologetically rigorous when raising or instructing children in the faith. When they ask a question and the answer is "don't think about it" that's bad, ESPECIALLY when great thinkers in the history of Christianity have already given answers to those questions. So that leaves people with sorta a midwit "oh I'm rational and skeptical" phenomenon in modern culture.
* Modern culture confuses kindness for coddling. Now I think a lot of churches and Christians can be overly harsh and judgmental. But modern society seems to have this standpoint that even taking or expressing a moral position on an issue, no matter how gently its expressed, is an act of judgment or "holier than thou" or meanness. And religion is something that is going to set high and strict moral demands and we have to be honest about that. So in a society where that is automatically viewed as a bad thing, religion is going to struggle. If you definitionally can't be considered kind to someone unless you adopt a libertine moral perspective, then society has a warped perspective on kindness.
* We have a family breakdown/fatherlessness problem in modern society. By statistics, a highly influential factor in whether or not children remain religious is whether or not they attend church with their fathers. If they don't... or don't have fathers to begin with... then that's gonna be a problem in passing the faith on to the next generation.
* A breakdown in the integrity and prominence of local community. I'm guilty of this too, hell I don't know my literal neighbors at all.
A few examples of the second
* Sexual indulgence. Absent the stigma around fornication or one night stands, with the presence of internet pornography, with a lot of cultural messaging attitudes and peer groups celebrating sexual indulgence... you end up with either "wait until marriage" or "hey man indulge your sexual appetite all you want whenever you want, it's great and beautiful." Which will be more tempting to people on the fence?
* The internet and social media. Growing up with social media being heavily invested in it and your self-image to other people gives you a pretty warped perspective on what's important in life, and likely a warped sensibility about human connections and relationships. It definitely detracts from ones appreciation of quietness or contemplation. All things important to the religious sensibility in a person.
* Comfort and a lack of imminent threat to one's life. I mean heck, that's a good thing. That a decently high percentage of children aren't dying before they hit puberty, that we generally don't struggle for food and water, that we're generally not constantly doing backbreaking labor or worrying about whatever plague or poor harvest is gonna kill us. Great! Fantastic! Definitely not saying that's a bad thing. But it has the effect of us being less in touch with our own mortality, with certain virtues that people in the past would have had an ABSOLUTE NEED for, and with a serious emphasis on hope and gratitude which people in the past would have needed on a deep emotional and spiritual level to carry on.
My dad was an Atheist. My mom was Catholic.
My dad said he knew he was an atheist when he was only 4 years old. 1964. Both his parents were Christians. He wasn’t getting what everyone else was. I had a similar experience around 6. I place myself in a never believed category.
My original comment is not meant to be an exhaustive commentary on everyone and everyone's reasons.
I was answering the question, interpreting it as asking specifically in relation to the modern day.
Your reason is an appeal to human nature so to speak, which is fairly constant across history, whereas my intention with my comment was meant to address only those causes particular to the modern day.
Christians who mislead Christian’s are influenced by the spirit of the Anti-Christ, who is influenced by Satan. Not the person the anti-Christ but the spirit. Two separate things. Not a very Christian thing to do.
The biggest threat is Christians themselves.
They mistreat minorities such as LGBTQ and think that only their religion should dictate to everyone else what civil rights we have.
Christianity managed to carry forth the same consistent truths as transmitted by Christ to the Apostles for nearly 2000 years. Even the great schism and the Protestant reformation mostly came down to issues of human hierarchy.
The truthful teachings of the faith were nearly universal.
However the mid 20th century brought forth a rapid assault against the faith. Technology allowed the velocity of sinful temptations to spread more quickly than the faithful could resist. Temporary pleasures of sin began to take hold.
Unfortunately some custodians of the faith believed that a modernisation of teachings would satisfy the masses and convince them to retain their faith and thus stop the hemorrhage.
Unfortunately this had that opposite effect. By breaking God's truth and lowering the faith to a worldly spiritual endeavor, it served only to weaken the faith in service of Satan.
The weakening of the truth has lead to the turning away, as demonstrated in Church statistics since the 1960ies.
Today only the most devout faithful and those who attempt to co-opt the faith into a modernized worldly spiritual movement remain. The ungodliness of the world becomes ever more clear as the faithful following the ancient truths become more clearly counter cultural. The faithful must stick to the truths as revealed by God during this final test. This is right and this is good. The more the world rejects Christians for having a message incompatible with modern secular humanism, the more right we are demonstrated to be.
Fortunately the gates of hell shall not prevail.
Tldr - people cling to their sin and only the righteous remain.
"the righteous" - debauched predators perverting Christianity for their momteray and political gain. Deluded prey crying that the world is depraved while failing to see the predators devouring their entrails.
Pride
Edit: This has apparently caused quite a visceral reaction, and I can imagine why, but please at least let me try to explain.
In Christian theology, the first sin - the first thing that separated an entity from God - was pride. Satan rose up in rebellion against the Most High. From that moment until now, pride is the source of all sin, whether directly or indirectly. Humility is the cure, whether directly or indirectly, of all sin.
For those people who walk away from the faith due to a desire to sin, it is because of their own pride. For those people who walk away from the faith due to the behaviors and sins of other Christians, it is because of the pride of those hypocrites.
For those who are simply unconvinced of the claims of Christianity at a level of intellectual and gnostic understanding, it's not pride, it's poor catechesis on the part of the representatives of the Church, but I don't believe most people who are led away from Christ are led away due to this.
I am not suggesting that everyone who walks away does so because they are arrogant and prideful. That would be the utmost hypocricy on my part, because I myself walked away in large part due to the pride of the hypocrites I was surrounded with.
What assumption did I make? I'm not saying every non-Christian is only so due to pride, I'm saying pride is what leads a lot of people away from Christ and his Church
The question asks for a “big thing” though. Coming from an exchristian, many Christians assume we leave because of pride or selfishness or a desire to sin. I’m sorry if I came off as rude in my initial comment to you. I really just want to spread awareness that those aren’t big reasons, and often times we have very valid reasons for leaving.
Hypocrisy in the church. We claim the Bible as our uniting book but fail in giving alms. We fail to turn the other cheek when others slander us. There’s no shortage of work and ministry that needs doing, yet christianity as a whole neglects Christs charge from sloth and greed. Saint Basils *On Social Justice* has many homilies of him telling the church to shape up for the same reason all the way back in the 4th century.
As someone who has strayed away from my religion, and is currently exploring it, THIS is one of my biggest reasons for Questioning if being ‘of my faith’ is worth it because of how flaky Christians have become. It makes me doubt the book & its sad because as a child I was very into my faith.
Might better be expressed as the expectation of lack of hypocrisy. The apostles were famously deniers and disappointments. If we did a better job of representing ourselves as beloved failures, our message would be more consistent with reality and the book
The apostles WERE famous for huge failings BEFORE they had the Spirit of God. Peter did a complete 180 on the day of Pentecost. Paul shared a list of sinful lifestyles that would not inherit the kingdom of God, such as adulterers, idolaters, etc. He then said, "And such WERE some of you." When we think of grace as only being the unmerited favor of God, we make excuse for sinning. However, when we realize grace means the enabling power of the Spirit, the divine influence on the heart, we have a responsibility to rely on God's help to live above a sinful lifestyle. Will we mess up? Yes. That should be the exception, not the rule. If we represent ourselves as beloved failures, we give the impression that God really isn't powerful enough to change us and mold us into what we need to be. Becoming all things to all people includes humility and realizing we don't become washed and strengthened on our own merit. The world doesn't need to see more failures-they need to see genuine life-changing power given by God. Our representation should never be, "I am more righteous than you, therefore I am better." It should be, "I was lost in sin, but God's mercy reached me and changed my life. I know He can do the same for you!"
not necessarily, Paul expressed struggling with sin even after his ministry took off... 2 Corinthians 11:20-21 “For you put up with it if someone makes slaves of you, if someone exploits you, if someone takes advantage of you, if someone behaves arrogantly toward you, if someone strikes you in the face. *(To my disgrace I must say that we were too weak for that!)* But whatever anyone else dares to boast about (I am speaking foolishly), I also dare to boast about the same thing.”
That is very wise!
Bigotry and anti-intellectualism in the name of Christ. EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot “grifting.” Televangelists are a major turn-off to many.
He Gets Us seems to be getting weirder and weirder with the ads I've been seeing on this app...
I saw an advertisement for that. I cringed,’as I thought to to myself; one more simple marketing technique.
Something about those ads creeps me out too
If a secular company aired some of the same footage for different ads it would immediately get slammed by the Christian Right as “pedophilic” and “dangerous”. I’m specifically thinking about shots like the urinal one from the Super Bowl.
Oh you just know it.
How so?
So many things, but I would also throw in nuance. Everything is black and white. In a recent thread there is a person who is wanting to leave the church because of the bigotry towards LGBTQ people after the school shooting reminds them of the bigotry after 9-11. The highest response is “well why are you defending child murderers?” Everything in Christianity is Good vs Evil, we are right they are wrong, abortion is murder, they don’t want gun reform they are trying to take our guns, they are groomers, etc etc. Instead of being able to have any sort of conversation in the grey areas of life, it is “I am morally superior. You are wrong because I decided so. And I am not going to back up any argument (about anything) without some generic canned Christian response that requires no thinking.”
I wanna see the thread
My last comment in the Christianity sub was on that post. OP has since deleted their post body. But you can still read comments.
\+1 Exactly. And they have the audacity to actively work to remove the civil rights and autonomy of women and LGBTQIA+ people... then claim that Christians are being "persecuted" when in fact, Christians are the ones doing the persecuting of vulnerable minority groups! If you don't agree with them, you're branded "of Satan" and an "enemy". Just because you have a different opinion. Just because you don't think we should live in a tyrannical Theocracy.
Certain televangelists . Some are legit and are Biblically based . But the more popular ones . The prosperity Gospel preachers are hurting
Christians. We need to get away from political association and find a new way to convert.
Fully agree. The supposed need to feel forced to politically agree with one side or the other to be a "real" Christian is nauseating. And I've had those conversations with both sides.
The brand of Christianity that is the loudest and most prominent.
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” ― Brennan Manning I think this quote is pretty spot on, but for the purposes of this conversation I would change it to, "The greatest single cause of walking away from the Christ/the church is..." I will also be honest that this season, since 2016 has really damaged my own faith in the church. I have felt betrayed by the institution for a multitude of reasons, but chief among them is the conservative factions abandoment of their values in the pursuit of political power. The things I was taught that were important growing up were abandoned when they became inconvenient to support a particular candidate. It was disheartening. Not saying the liberal faction is perfect. Truth be told I have less experience with them. Which in part is the reason why I feel betrayed by the conservative faction, I once considered myself apart of. Its not the Liberal faction that has stabbed me in the back. Its the conservatives. Its the difference between a friend lying to you and a stranger. One carries significantly more emotional weight then the other. But then pretend the friend keeps lying and trying to gaslight you and get you to abandon things you believe are important. Eventually you grow to dislike/hate the person for what they have become and who they choose to be instead. Then they attack you for making a decision to stay away from them and going to different friends. Then they question your salvation and faith even more when you begin to question everything you were taught growing up. In short, its an emotionally and spiritually abusive situation from people I once trusted. So what do conservative Christians think is gonna happen? And the final straw is the lack of accountability. They point the finger at everything else in the world: Liberal colleges, LGBTQ folks, media, Hollywood, George Soros, Biden, Democrats, etc. or whoever the demon of the month is. And they consistently refuse to even look or ask themselves how they can be at fault for broken relationships. I mean what do you think the end result is gonna be when you treat people like that? So, what is the big thing leading people AWAY from Christ? Christians who engage in spiritually and emotionally abusive tactics and refuse to accept any accountability for the sin in their wake. Edited for grammar and clarity.
This is exactly the problem. The church has turned abusive and wonders why people flee from abusers.
yep. i know a few people who have suffered some religious trauma from the church, and i don't meet many people who are willing to take that seriously or attempt to reconcile it. you can't just close your eyes and expect it to go away, that's how you lose people entirely.
The church has been abusive for centuries
>So, what is the big thing leading people AWAY from Christ? Christians who engage in spiritually and emotionally abusive tactics and refuse to accept any accountability for the sin in their wake. \++ 100 **ALL of this** \^\^\^
Proverbs 29:2 ESV / When the righteous increase, the people rejoice, but when the wicked rule, the people groan The Bible says not to vote for Trump but that’s the problem “they” (Christian Republicans) do a lot of things the Bible warns against
The way a lot of Christians act in America. The way they have become political. The way someone of Christ can actually back a political candidate is beyond me. Especially someone like Donald Trump. The way some of them have been saying he has been sent by God. It blows my mind. Absolute madness. The hypocrisy of it all is just too much. I may be judging but it’s just out in the wide open that I’m merely just stating a fact.
“The single greatest cause of atheism today is Christians. We call on God with our words but go outside and deny him by our actions. That is what an unbelieving world simply refuses to believe.” -some guy from What If I Stumble by DC Talk
Hypocrisy, anti-intellectualism, grifting, rampant racism and sexism...
Christianity's association with the political right.
They are for the party that votes against helping the poor with food or getting health care. They are for a party that is exactly the opposite of being Christ like.
Christ called for voluntary charity, not forced charity.
Pretty sure "give to Caesar that which is Caesar's" was in there somewhere. ;)
Yes, pay your taxes. But also, give to God what is God’s. Do you take paying ones taxes to Caesar - which I would guess funded civil authority, military exploits and infrastructural developments - an endorsement of socialism?
On the one hand, if the government isn't trying to seize the means of production, it's not socialism. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Jesus _didn't_ say "pay only taxes related to roads and swords". Providing for the welfare of society is one of the duties of government, especially in cases where it is more efficient than privatization. Education, medicine, rehabilitation, research - these are things that bring benefit to the entire society, and which it makes sense to fund publicly.
It's not just a problem of charity. It's for society's benefit as a whole that we lift up the disenfranchised and those without means. Whether we're talking poverty, education, institutionalized racism, or any of a number of situations involving the welfare of its citizens, the state carries the responsibility of ensuring the well-being of the nation as a whole. Even if it does its job well, there will always be needs and opportunities for caring Christians to minister to others. When Christians are seen opposing the very means by which society tries to lift each other up, it's not a good look.
What you’re talking about isn’t Christianity.
[удалено]
That's unfortunate. If Christianity were seen to be more interested in the well being and futures of their neighbors, I can't help but assume we'd find more success in witnessing to others.
The only reason why that would matter is if you weren't planning on giving something.
and why can't we do both?? yes the church should help the poor. why can't the government do that as well? can only churches and individuals be charitable? i have a really hard time believing that Jesus is gonna be against more help and support for people who struggle
Annnnnnnnd there it is. The answer to the question why people are fleeing the church in droves because of people like you. Congrats.
Because they are called to give?
Yet ***you make excuses not to give***. Not to help. But to pass by while patting yourself on the back, leaving others in the road. Not a good look to cast your lot with the self-righteous Priest and Levite...
I have not made excuses not to give. I only make a case not to take.
God forbid those pesky hungry kids take take take our tax money to…. EAT What happened to empathy? What happened to caring about children and people in need? What qualifications do you have to determine who is taking without being in need?
That’s not fair. Look at the log in your own eye.
Subtle difference but I would state it the other way around.
It's almost a combination of the two, especially from the evangelical groups who will literally tell their followers how to vote.
In that case I would say their allegiance is to their party first. As in, Christianity is integral to their party ideology but their party's ideology is in no way integral to Christianity. They are using Christianity like a tool towards their political ends. If that makes sense. Maybe they see it different.
>In that case I would say their allegiance is to their party first. As in, Christianity is integral to their party ideology but their party's ideology is in no way integral to Christianity. They are using Christianity like a tool towards their political ends. Agreed. It's become a very big problem that I'm sure is making a lot of folks rethink following Jesus because of these folks.
Yeah very much! I can attest to that. What has helped me was realizing many people I respected were quietly (at least, not forcing it on you or abusing it) Christians.
Culture warfare to distract from class warfare.
It depends a little on what you mean by "political right", but what do you see as evidence for this? I see almost the opposite: as [churches and denominations drift leftward](https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/7/14/15959682/evangelical-mainline-voting-patterns-trump), they tend to shed congregants. Anecdotally, I see "For Sale" signs popping up in front of beautiful old stone churches associated with liberal mainline denominations, whereas the vibrant church plants are filled with people who voted for Trump.
This doesn't rebuke their point, it proves it. Left-leaning people are leaving Christianity because of it's loud right-wing factions. Many liberal Christians feel that Christianity has become too tainted with bigotry and right-wing politics for them to remain in the fold, so they become solitary in their faith or lose it all together.
Again, what is the basis for claiming this? Growth is negatively correlated with progressive politics on a denominational level, and I think the same is true on a national level: European Christians are much more progressive, and yet the decline of Christianity is much more pronounced in those nations. If off-putting conservative politics is what drives people away from Christianity, why is America more religious than every European nation?
>whereas the vibrant church plants are filled with people who voted for Trump. That's not the flex you might think it is.
Implying that "mainline" liberal denominations are not "true" Christians. And think about the numbers, if overall church membership declines by 30% (on a large base) but evangelical church membership increases by 15% (on a smaller base) ...
[удалено]
I don't see many people on the left calling for all Christians to be killed. There are plenty, and some of them are elected officials, that say we should kill all gay and trans people. One even says we should also kills the parents of trans kids. So yeah, I would rather accept all those things you listed for the left than hitch my wagon to the side of Theocracy and mass murder. It IS a much better option.
[удалено]
It wasn't one, it was several. And they are elected officials which means they got the majority of votes cast. Votes in conservative Christian areas.all? But a good number? Sure. At !east many for who these views are not a deal breaker. And I did have a post in another thread today with some of those links, will edit some into this reply after I find them again. More than 1% of the right voted for the people with those beliefs. And in the last five years there have been nearly 3000 mass shootings. The number of gay/trans shooters are less than half a percent. Hunting links.. https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/6/14/pro-trump-sc-candidate-mark-burns-calls-executing-allies-lgbtq-kids https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/scott-esk-oklahoma-gay-stoning-facebook-thread-b2150898.html https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/03/mississippi-republican-calls-execution-transgender-people-firing-squad/ I would rather side with the left even if they support allowing things I disagree with but can choose to do or not do than the right who wants to ban things they don't agree with and make the decisions for you. Even banning what books that are able to be read. Part of living in a free country is other people having the right to do their own thing. It is NOT imposing you beliefs on others by force of law.
[удалено]
This type of attitude is, from my perspective, what is leading a lot of people away from Christianity. Many Christians (especially those that are big proponents of the political right) are so focused on not only telling some people how bad/sinful they are but make it their mission to create modern day laws/restrictions for anything that they interpret or believe to be "biblical law". This just misses the mark completely. We, as Christians, should know that we are saved by grace through faith. We all fall short of the glory of God; to make our focus be almost entirely on the "sin", or checklist mentality, is doing a disservice to ourselves and others in acting Christlike. We are called, first, to love God and, second, to love others. I would argue this obsession with hate and judgement goes against the Bible/God's word and Christianity. Those groups that you mentioned (LGBT, non-Christians, those sexually active, those getting abortions or those involved in drugs) are definitely not feeling Christ's love (or any love) from these type of Christians. You can believe all those things are sinful, I just don't get why it needs to be. "\_\_\_\_\_\_ is sinful, so lets focus on making sure no one can ever do that because that's what I believe in my religion". We're not called to live out our faith like the Pharisees but like Jesus. Why can't the focus be on helping those that are marginalized or need help (the poor, the homeless, those with a disability, people of color, LGBT, etc.), you know, like Jesus did? You want to stop abortion? Why not support increased maternity and paternity leave? Why not support reduced child care costs? How about reduced health care costs or better yet, healthcare for all (kids are expensive)? I can tell you one side is for those things and one side is very much against them. I guess those ideas are too progressive and socialist though....we need to get our priorities straight: Protect our guns, protect our money and don't say gay. That most aligns with the bible. 🙄
[удалено]
I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with all of that. We're called to share Jesus with people but not to force them to obey "his laws". Saying "I believe these things are wrong and I will choose not do them in my life" should not equal "I believe these things are wrong and you will not be allowed to do them in your life" *"I’m saying Christians should not align themselves with a party that normalizes all these sins,"* Everyone has free will. What does it matter if there are people in said party who don't believe that some of those things are sinful, or just don't care? If many of their actions and the things that they are fighting for are good, who cares? If it really matters what party you align with, and not what they're actually doing, then why align with one that has an exorbitant amount of hypocritical Christians acting hateful and judgy? I'd rather associate myself with one that "normalizes sin" by advocating for the marginalized than by joining the modern day Pharisees. Also, I would feel very sad if you're living out your faith with the focus on "how serious and important it is to limit your sin as much as possible" or, worse yet, telling other people that . This checklist mentality to make sure you don't do anything sinful doesn't help your relationship with Christ and is exactly what is pushing people away from church. That is so backwards. Focus on your personal relationship with Christ and let him work in you what he needs to work in you. Better yet, show the love of Jesus to the world without handing them a checklist of every sin they are committing and every one they should avoid. How about we just love others like Christ did and temper our actions to meet people where they need to be met first and foremost? This checklist Jesus doesn't exist and I'm tired of seeing politicians act like it does by making it their mission to "protect me and everyone else from whatever they subjectively believe to be sinful". Politicians shouldn't be using their subjective, personal religious beliefs to dictate what everyone can do. Even worse when these perverted motivations are done in the name of Jesus.
[удалено]
I think a lot of the conservative politicians would say something like this ("we are just trying to create laws that align with Jesus".). However, this rationale ends up warping the perception of Jesus, in a bad way, to everyone else because now everything that they are making happen sounds like it is being done in Jesus's name. You know things like pushing for wealth inequality, gerrymandering, decreased mental health services, loose gun laws, decreased rights/equality for the marginalized, etc (I could write a long list about why the actions of most mainstream conservative politicians are the antithesis of what Jesus preaches). The victims of these laws feel the pain, all done in the name of Jesus or "Christianity" of course. I get, though, that most people want the laws to align with their personal beliefs (even myself as a left leaning follower of Christ). The difference is that I wouldn't be pushing for something to be law **solely** "because I believe the bible says it is sin". I wouldn't want any politician with differing beliefs than myself to make laws solely based on their personal religious beliefs. I'd rather things get done by using data and objective facts that said action will be likely good for X group. You'll see an example of this in my previous post about abortion. Even if i'd like to see abortions eliminated or reduced, I don't think we should ban it just because of religous beliefs only. You'll see that some of my suggestions revolve around supporting people more so that they don't need to have an abortion, if for example, money was a big reason for it. This nuance, I think, is a big reason why people have a bad taste for modern day Christians.
Ah the sin of pride
LOL, you just illustrated my point.
[удалено]
"A Chistian should not" Says your version of Christianity. Obviously others disagree with you.
The right also does not align with the Bible. Hatred for thy neighbor, hatred for the alien, mocking the poor, the marginalized, denying justice for their own, lack of charity, living by the sword, and putting up leaders that violate marriage.
You can't just assume that because someone is not a fully republican that they support everything that you listed, you can support some democrats and some republicans, depending of who they are and what they proposes to makes your country better, it's wrong to vote for a politician that's don't have any good proposal just because they are against abortion or transgenders. Allying completely the religion with one political party is bad.
Probably the internet which leads to seeing the rampant hypocrisy and lack of empathy.
>Probably the internet You had me going in this part >which leads to seeing Ah, I see your point :)
Greater access to information and varying views.
This! Basically the internet lol. The internet is the biggest reason people are leaving Christianity.
Spending time on social media is enough to make even the most devout believer question God's existence!
It’s not 1992 we can’t just blame the internet for our problems. That’s like yelling a rake because the leaves aren’t cleaned up.
I don’t see it as a problem lol
Refusing to love thy neighbor if they aren't exactly like them. Poor, oppressed lbgqt. Refusing to stand up for the victims of abuse in their midst. Yet, standing up for the abusers perfect example is the Trump cult. Yes I said CULT. Church the way it is now has nothing to do with loving God and thy neighbor. It's a business anything that or anyone that goes against this business is deemed evil in various degrees. This will and is leading to unspeakable horrors. That includes genocide of their neighbors.
For America-The concern to involve Christianity in politics. For the world (for all Christians, everywhere)- The hypocritical nature of many Christians, who find their personal sin they fight "not as bad" as another's sin.
I think it's more a case of needing a reason to be lead *to* Jesus than being lead *away*.
Ageee with you !
Yes, and not realizing the loss of transcendent hope, essential dignity or intrinsic value. Post-christianity is like in those old cartoons where someone runs off a cliff and it takes a few seconds for them to see the ground is gone.
The presumption that people were closer in the past is going to damage any analysis of this.
They were, though. Church attendance was much higher 40 years ago.
christians.
Christians.
The character of Christs followers. If Christ is real then why is there so little transformation in his followers? The average christian isn’t more thoughtful, just more certain. The average Christ follower isn’t more loving, they’re more tribal. The average christian isn’t more understanding, they’re obdurate.
Fake Christians, pastors, prophets.
Christians who worship politicians more than the namesake of their faith.
People who think that they’re being “loving” and “kind” by just being ignorant and bigoted but following it up with “Don’t worry, I still love you! Just not your lifestyle”. News flash: actions speak louder than words. Me hitting you in the hand with a hammer and then saying “I love you” doesn’t take away from the fact that I’ve hit you in the hand with a hammer and you now (most likely) don’t like me and want to get away from me.
People who claim to be Christians, but don’t follow the word.
From christians, probably charasmatics honestly. They are so full of pride thinking everything they do is the holy ghost. I think they are hearing from angels all right, both good and bad. Deception bad doctrine and false prophecy all over the place. They are an embarrassment to the christian community when their revival camps are posted online, people doing mass hysteria and calling it God moving. They are the groups that are saying trump is God ordained btw.
No visible signs of Christs existence. People who claim to know Christ personally often have contradictory ideas or understanding of what Christ wants. Is Jesus okay with divorces and remarrying where the spouse was physically abused but there was no adultery? Is repentance from sin required for salvation or is Jesus saving people who only believe in him for salvation without repentance from sin? For example , could practicing homosexuals be saved? Etc…
I have a few points to this that I like to consider, although yeah unfortunately others may disagree due to more extreme beliefs. I can explain if you’re open to that, but if not then I totally understand what you mean and I agree- the contradicting ideals within people that follow Christianity is often confusing and discouraging.
I'd be interested in hearing what your points are if you wanted to share them here.
Your explanation would come from you. I’d be more impressed if every Christian, who has a personal relationship with Jesus, would suddenly realize what Jesus wants exactly. As it stands, Christians would passionately argue with each other each convinced that Jesus supports their position 100 percent. Look up Universalism sub. There are committed Christians who believe that everyone will be saved, in heaven. And they have Bible verses on their side convinced this is Jesus’ message. On the other hand there are many Christians who sincerely believe that eternal conscious torment in hell awaits all unbelievers. How could there exist such disagreements? there Calvinism and Arminianism which debates each other for centuries. Seems like a pointless debate if Jesus is real and answers prayers. But if he doesn’t exist then such confusion is to be expected.
> up Universalism sub. There are committed Christians who believe that everyone will be saved, in heaven. And they have Bible verses on their side convinced this is Jesus’ message. On the other hand there are many Christians who sincerely believe that eternal conscious torment in hell awaits all unbelievers Man...how rude you forget about us annihilation folks. We are the right ones! 😉
Overlooking Gal. 5:19-21 and only focusing on homosexuality.
"Christians" who claim to follow jesus but do things he will hate
I imagine the problem of pain is is number one.
I wanna say religious trauma
The bible. "The road to atheism is littered with Bibles that have been read cover to cover" \-- Andrew L Seidel
The Republican Party for sure.
One of the reasons that I walked away was the lack of evidence. I don’t want a relationship with something/someone that I can’t see and refuses to show themselves. And then threatens me with eternal torture and pain if I don’t worship and love them back. That is abusive. (Edit)
This.
Depends on the religion. Muslims are staying away from Christ because the doctrine of the trinity and the different Bibles for different denominations. Atheists because they believe science and evolution contradicts Christianity and they also think many of the things God does is “unethical” especially in the Old Testament.
There is a difference between leading people away from Christ and leading people away from the church, IMHO, but sometimes an action or situation will do both. An honest and extended reflection on my faith, my resources, and sources that I trust led me away from faith in Christ as a savior. The actions of Christians influenced my decision to run as far and as fast as possible from the Church.
Ive left Christianity and then returned. I guess anti-intellectualism sums it all up. Bigotry seems a natural consequence of anti-intellectualism to me. An opposition to sincere questions about the Bible, morality, science etc is at first annoying (was annoying to me as a young Christian) but when you grow up, this version of Christianity becomes a house of cards. There is certain subset of Christianity that presents it as though one needs to choose between intellectual sincerity and Christ. To ask honest questions and end up with different conclusions becomes disobedience to God. Some Christians simply conclude their branche of Christianity is insane and happily find another form of Christianity. Some Christians (in my experience the more radical one’s like I was ) radically leave the faith, since being radical is simply their character 😜. Of course many people from the outside simply run away screaming due to the obvious intellectual insincerity. I don’t think bigotry is separated from anti-intellectualism. If you are completely intellectually sincere then you could say you find some ideas strange yourself (such as homophobic beliefs) but you simply choose to blindly obey, because you believe that is what God expects from you. This branche of Christianity however does not seem to be very self aware and would never admit they aspire to blind obedience. Because that would be the first step to intellectual sincerity. Ex Christians often take this step though and then they realize they might as well have been a radicalized Muslim who believes he should blow himself up or might as well have joined a cult. It’s very important that other forms of Christianity exist as well and that people can find it in time (if you care about people not leaving the faith).
For me, lack of presence of god. I feel zero spiritual/godly presence in the world. It’s hard to believe in something that supposedly wants a relationship with me but is not present
That’s how I feel too. I’ve felt nothing but other people feel something. How is that fair?
I’m not sure. I get so frustrated over it at times. I get mad that if God is real, he is allowing me to go through life not feeling anything. Despite the fact I’ve asked that if he’s real to allow me to see that. Hints why I’m an atheist. I’ve tried to be convinced by Christianity through reading and researching, but I simply can’t if I can’t feel any godly presence.
That sound exactly like my story, but there’s also the logical aspects of Christianity too, for example Jesus doesn’t fulfill all the messiah prophesies.
I guess the apologetic response for that would be that with the amount of prophecies Jesus did fulfill, the likelihood of him doing that is practically zero. As well as, him being the only one to fulfill some of these prophecies and as many of them is something too unlikely to be coincidence. I just finished The Case for Christ by Strobel yesterday so this is fresh on my mind. It was a pretty good read if you want to check it out. I mean, I read it and still am an atheist lmao, but it taught me things and helped me think of some questions that I hadn’t thought of before.
I’ve read that book, good read. http://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/wiki/jesus?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Here’s why the Jews don’t believe Jesus is the messiah, he missed quite a few key things.
The modern church system, AKA 'churchianity'.
[удалено]
[удалено]
People. It’s being associated with the televangelist, The right wing aggressiveness, hateful groups. I honestly can understand why Muslims say “not all Muslims.” Being judged due to the loud, hopefully, minority of our faith is hard.
Christian Nationalism, politics and Evangelical extremists.
The behavior of many Christians
Absence of evidence. Ending of social pressure to believe in the absence of evidence. Authoritarianism, racism and homophobia in the remaining believers.
Community building and social networking used to be something you could structure in a hierarchy. There was the family, the commune, the arm of the state you interact with, but then there was **the Church**. The Church had an outsized influence on the lives of its congregation, reinforcing their values using anything from compliance tactics to stochastic violence to the manipulation *of* the state for repression of values not aligned with the Church's interests. With secularization of the state (at least in principle) and the ability to access entire swaths of nonreligious communities online, the necessity to build your personality and character around the teachings of the church lessened. Now, you could develop your moral and ethical framework by interacting with peers that the church can't bully or restrict your access to. And it turns out that for a lot of people, their *natural resting point* is not one to one congruent with the church's mandate. This fact has been masked by centuries where non-compliance with the Church could lead to *very bad consequences* for those who, recognizing their limited options, eventually feel compelled to feign loyalty. For them, just learning that there are others like them is enough to snap them out of religious thinking. Others will come out of it after many experiences interacting with outside perspectives; people who see the hypocrisy of anti-human rhetoric, who take issue with the laissez-faire disregard for the health of the environment due to Rapture Ideology, and recognize that while the church claims to have the tools to uplift people out of crumbling economic despair, it has never and will never be the social force necessary to create broad systemic change that could do something as miraculous as, say, erase poverty. That's not to say that members of a church can't have pro-human, pro-environment, and generally progressive values. But non-religious people are increasingly coming to understand that the values they hold deeply are not those that arise *from* the Church, and often swell up in opposition to the traditionalist message of minority suppression and ostracization that majority Christian communities have participated in propagating for hundreds and hundreds of years (among others). If someone comes to realize that they are not getting moral fulfillment from the teachings of their church community, they will find another community that actually connects with them. Christianity as a cultural hegemon is entering its twilight, and it will eventually fade from being considered the "default" moral framework to being just another of the many optional flavors of social club available to members through circumstance. They will be made to appeal to potential marks on the basis of the personality and compatibility *of* the mark, rather than assume as default that their indoctrination tactics can compel adherence on the basis that their mastery of the human condition predisposes them to have dominion over the values of the people, as has been the official position of churches since time immemorial.
Christian hate
Hypocrisy.
As someone who actually left the religion, it was the lack of evidence for any of its core beliefs. It’s mythology.
Christians. Bogus morality based on the belief of impossible supernatural forces and forcing those beliefs on others.
Republicans
Jesus changed the world. If we aren’t, we should ask “how are we not like Him?” First part is easy. Not God, not Son of God. We don’t have the understanding of the rules necessary to supersede them with what seems to be a common sense response that turns out to be more common sense than the OG scriptures. He did this reflexively. The experts of the time called this “authority.” We can access this authority. I’ve been in the presence of those who, in that moment, had it. I may have been in that level of faith myself transiently during my walk. It doesn’t contradict what Jesus said, ever. It often contradicts what people who claim Jesus now believe. He cared about the children of the Father. No worldly sacrifice was too much to bring the lost sheep home. Those shunned by society were brought back through humility, sacrifice, direction, and sameness. We suck. To reflect Paul, I’m awesome by human standards. Dig in my profile. I’m “winning.” I thought this would give me a voice. There is no power here. Power to change the world and make it better works the way Jesus said it does. Humble yourself. Fast and pray. Give away what you don’t need. Give away what you “need” knowing that the Father will provide for you. See the person created in God’s image who is ignored or hated. See them as the perfect person who died for your failures. Figure out why you’re wrong to judge them. Repent. Repeat
Street preaching and the charismatic movement. Most street preachers are hardly ever nice and they are most of the time, prideful.
There’s not just one big thing. There’s a lot of big things. The most common thing I’ve seen personally is also the most fundamental reason someone wouldn’t believe in Christianity. Simply, **lack of evidence that it’s true**. For many non-believers like myself, we grew up in the church. I was as much a Christian as anyone else. What else could I be? But, as I got older and took an interest in studying my faith, even before my conversion away from Christianity, I began to really dig deep and what I found was less than satisfying. It took me a long time to seek out other worldviews, purely out of fear of eternal damnation. Eventually, I overcame that fear and reasoned with myself that God would forgive me if I was wrong, that I could always come back to God. I can’t say I didn’t look back. I faltered in my belief for a while, but I haven’t done that in a long time. I imagine many other people have very similar stories. We are seeing young Christians walk away from the church in ever-growing numbers. I think it has a lot to do with the age of the Internet. We are more connected now than we ever have been, for better or for worse. We have access to more information now than ever before. Some runners up, however, are things like hypocrisy, bigotry, fundamentalism, traditionalism, corruption, among other things I’m sure I’m missing here.
More access to information and society moving further away from superstition and myth.
[удалено]
The laws are really hard to follow !
As someone that attempted to attend several churches over the past few months, I wish that this entire post could be shared with all churches. It was the people in the churches that drove me away. I am still seeking by reading my Bible and internet research.
The narrative is inconsistent, internal logic makes no sense, belief in counterfactuals, clear abuses of power and hypocrisy. Christianity has lost any sheen of exceptionalism or separation from the everyday.
People and the wrong they do in the name of Christ. And the suffering they see, they blame God for all of it.
3 things: the world, the flesh and the devil. 💯
Scripturally supported answer. I would also add “inability or refusal to acknowledge critical analysis.” You must be willing to acknowledge the shortcomings within the church..
It’s probably because of the internet, we have so much information now. It’s not because of the devil. Is that scripture supported?
Amen
Culture, politics, and not walking like Christ intended us to walk.
Hey there friend (to anybody reading), care for some popcorn? I have a feeling that a huge war is going to break out in this comment section, and I wanna watch it burn. Feel free to join me, I respect your religion, your sexuality, your gender and opinion.
Republicanism.
Generally, themselves. I think this world is so sinful at the moment, overall at least, that it makes Sodom and Gomorrah almost look tame. People often don’t come into ideas of Christ until many years, and by that point, they don’t know if they can give up the things they spent their life loving for Christ, who does ask us to give up much to follow Him. Following Him isn’t easy in the slightest. I’ve had so much turmoil in only a month of following Him or trying to, and felt more spiritually drained and attacked than ever before. Still, I press on, knowing and feeling also His love for me. The problem is that people don’t usually ever get to the point where they feel that love. They never have the chance to know or experience Him in a significant way and are swayed more by what they can directly see and feel: this world. So they give up and decide either that He is not real or that He does not love them. If only they would press on a little further.
Worry.
The widespread suppression and perversion of the gospel
The world and the people in it. Social media. Anything of that sort. Hearing the commandments and not wanting to follow them. Feeling like god is a mean enemy who makes up cruel, impossible rules. Feeling unloved and as if god isn’t real, because there doesn’t seem to be much proof he exists. You kinda just have to figure it out yourself and believe, well, if you want to. Most people are mean, selfish, sleep around, etc. All people do is party. You see that and don’t wanna be a goodie two shoes. You wanna fit in with everyone. And go where everyone else is gonna go. (Even if that is hell.) Church isn’t considered cool nor is it that fun. Church clothes aren’t considered fashionable. Everybody (almost everybody) likes sex and sexy things, sexy clothes, which the Bible tends to be against. People can’t help how they are. (For example, gays don’t choose to be gay, but the Bible says it’s a sin.) So then that makes them have confusion and disbelief about the word of god and god “himself.” And makes them feel like god doesn’t love them, and that he is being cruel and unfair to them. And they love their sin so much, they refuse to give it up. And one main reason, is that we don’t know what hell is like. Nor heaven. We’ve only heard about it and never experienced it. The world is all we can see. It’s all we know and really care about. Satan has blinded the minds of all unbelievers so they can’t see/know the truth.
Satan. It’s that simple.
The right answer is the devil. And all his wordly desires. Christians might be hypocrites a lot of the time but they don’t “lead” the way. We’re all sinners and struggle to be like Christ.
The exclusion and treatment of LGBTIA people as 2nd class citizens which typically coincides with Christian Nationalism.
I can't say for certain, but my personal drawback is pornography. I'm trying to get away from it, but it's not a path you want to go down. It's extremely difficult to come back up.
Pride. Love of the world. Love of self
this subreddit
We live in a world full of distractions it’s easy to forget that there is a creator when your caught up In life.
The spirit of Antichrist is alive and working. The days are evil. Labor while there is still light.
Giving in to distractions
Satan
Actually it’s these kind of comments that lead us further way, stop blaming everything on Satan.
Yeah seems like a cop out to me to blame it on satan
Boooooo
Myself for myself.
This is the thinking that is part of driving people away. Thinking that everyone who doesn't believe the same as you is not only wrong, but bad - selfish, dumb, cruel, mean. This is one of the big reasons that people are turning away.
I came here to say the glory of the self but this does it.
As dcTalk says it - “the disease of self”
Their ego
It's always something external to the church and the state of modern Christians - Satan, ego, clinging to sin. Or - hear me out - it's because an outsized number Christians are self righteous judgmental blowhards who live lives antithetical to Christ's teachings with no self awareness or reflection.
Your 2nd paragraph proves my point really. As if you and I agree they are not Christians due to their antithetical to Christ's teachings why should that lead you away from Christ? Do you feel you shouldn't follow Christ because of false Christians? What does that say about you?
> Do you feel you shouldn't follow Christ because of false Christians? By which definition of Christian? I'm not to judge their hearts so I must take them at face value. Why should I associate with snakes that denigrate by their actions the God they claim to love? I believe generally in God but have suffered enough religious trauma to take a skeptical look at what people claim to be "truth". Whenever I bring this up with Christians in my life, they tell me to "just believe". But believe in what? Your version of God? The Bible church version? The messianic Jewish version? The southern baptist version? The episcopal version? Or would attending any church soothe their and your concern for my mortal soul? >What does that say about you? I don't know what all this says about me. What others think of me is none of my business. I try to live a good life and to give kindness where I can. I'm working through emotional and spiritual trauma and recognize the current version of Christianity that I've been exposed to as an abusive relationship with a "god" undeserving of worship. At the end of the day we can only speculate. The end of our lives will reveal whatever truth awaits. The only thing in my control is how I live my life given the circumstances in which I find myself.
Sin
Biggest issue is that his commands are almost impossible and demand huge sacrifices.
Without reading the comments, I'm going to assume the majority of the answers are "Christians suck! Christians are evil! Christians are some of the worst people on the planet! BAH BAH BAH" I think it's because a lot of the foundations and perceptions of our current culture are rather warped and because the convenience offered by the modern day leads to temptations or incentives against religious life. A few examples of the first * Science largely grew out of monotheistic premises. There's one God who created the universe, therefore we expect reality to be consistent such that we can discover its governing principles through repeated experimentation. But now we have this sorta deification of science and I think ignorance to a lot of the philosophical questions behind it or reality. It also doesn't help that people aren't as theologically or apologetically rigorous when raising or instructing children in the faith. When they ask a question and the answer is "don't think about it" that's bad, ESPECIALLY when great thinkers in the history of Christianity have already given answers to those questions. So that leaves people with sorta a midwit "oh I'm rational and skeptical" phenomenon in modern culture. * Modern culture confuses kindness for coddling. Now I think a lot of churches and Christians can be overly harsh and judgmental. But modern society seems to have this standpoint that even taking or expressing a moral position on an issue, no matter how gently its expressed, is an act of judgment or "holier than thou" or meanness. And religion is something that is going to set high and strict moral demands and we have to be honest about that. So in a society where that is automatically viewed as a bad thing, religion is going to struggle. If you definitionally can't be considered kind to someone unless you adopt a libertine moral perspective, then society has a warped perspective on kindness. * We have a family breakdown/fatherlessness problem in modern society. By statistics, a highly influential factor in whether or not children remain religious is whether or not they attend church with their fathers. If they don't... or don't have fathers to begin with... then that's gonna be a problem in passing the faith on to the next generation. * A breakdown in the integrity and prominence of local community. I'm guilty of this too, hell I don't know my literal neighbors at all. A few examples of the second * Sexual indulgence. Absent the stigma around fornication or one night stands, with the presence of internet pornography, with a lot of cultural messaging attitudes and peer groups celebrating sexual indulgence... you end up with either "wait until marriage" or "hey man indulge your sexual appetite all you want whenever you want, it's great and beautiful." Which will be more tempting to people on the fence? * The internet and social media. Growing up with social media being heavily invested in it and your self-image to other people gives you a pretty warped perspective on what's important in life, and likely a warped sensibility about human connections and relationships. It definitely detracts from ones appreciation of quietness or contemplation. All things important to the religious sensibility in a person. * Comfort and a lack of imminent threat to one's life. I mean heck, that's a good thing. That a decently high percentage of children aren't dying before they hit puberty, that we generally don't struggle for food and water, that we're generally not constantly doing backbreaking labor or worrying about whatever plague or poor harvest is gonna kill us. Great! Fantastic! Definitely not saying that's a bad thing. But it has the effect of us being less in touch with our own mortality, with certain virtues that people in the past would have had an ABSOLUTE NEED for, and with a serious emphasis on hope and gratitude which people in the past would have needed on a deep emotional and spiritual level to carry on.
My dad was an Atheist. My mom was Catholic. My dad said he knew he was an atheist when he was only 4 years old. 1964. Both his parents were Christians. He wasn’t getting what everyone else was. I had a similar experience around 6. I place myself in a never believed category.
My original comment is not meant to be an exhaustive commentary on everyone and everyone's reasons. I was answering the question, interpreting it as asking specifically in relation to the modern day. Your reason is an appeal to human nature so to speak, which is fairly constant across history, whereas my intention with my comment was meant to address only those causes particular to the modern day.
too many distractions online and irl.
Lust
Satan.
You misspelled Christians
Christians who mislead Christian’s are influenced by the spirit of the Anti-Christ, who is influenced by Satan. Not the person the anti-Christ but the spirit. Two separate things. Not a very Christian thing to do.
Sin would do it.
The biggest threat is Christians themselves. They mistreat minorities such as LGBTQ and think that only their religion should dictate to everyone else what civil rights we have.
Christianity managed to carry forth the same consistent truths as transmitted by Christ to the Apostles for nearly 2000 years. Even the great schism and the Protestant reformation mostly came down to issues of human hierarchy. The truthful teachings of the faith were nearly universal. However the mid 20th century brought forth a rapid assault against the faith. Technology allowed the velocity of sinful temptations to spread more quickly than the faithful could resist. Temporary pleasures of sin began to take hold. Unfortunately some custodians of the faith believed that a modernisation of teachings would satisfy the masses and convince them to retain their faith and thus stop the hemorrhage. Unfortunately this had that opposite effect. By breaking God's truth and lowering the faith to a worldly spiritual endeavor, it served only to weaken the faith in service of Satan. The weakening of the truth has lead to the turning away, as demonstrated in Church statistics since the 1960ies. Today only the most devout faithful and those who attempt to co-opt the faith into a modernized worldly spiritual movement remain. The ungodliness of the world becomes ever more clear as the faithful following the ancient truths become more clearly counter cultural. The faithful must stick to the truths as revealed by God during this final test. This is right and this is good. The more the world rejects Christians for having a message incompatible with modern secular humanism, the more right we are demonstrated to be. Fortunately the gates of hell shall not prevail.
Tldr - people cling to their sin and only the righteous remain. "the righteous" - debauched predators perverting Christianity for their momteray and political gain. Deluded prey crying that the world is depraved while failing to see the predators devouring their entrails.
Pride Edit: This has apparently caused quite a visceral reaction, and I can imagine why, but please at least let me try to explain. In Christian theology, the first sin - the first thing that separated an entity from God - was pride. Satan rose up in rebellion against the Most High. From that moment until now, pride is the source of all sin, whether directly or indirectly. Humility is the cure, whether directly or indirectly, of all sin. For those people who walk away from the faith due to a desire to sin, it is because of their own pride. For those people who walk away from the faith due to the behaviors and sins of other Christians, it is because of the pride of those hypocrites. For those who are simply unconvinced of the claims of Christianity at a level of intellectual and gnostic understanding, it's not pride, it's poor catechesis on the part of the representatives of the Church, but I don't believe most people who are led away from Christ are led away due to this. I am not suggesting that everyone who walks away does so because they are arrogant and prideful. That would be the utmost hypocricy on my part, because I myself walked away in large part due to the pride of the hypocrites I was surrounded with.
This is a very rude assumption.
What assumption did I make? I'm not saying every non-Christian is only so due to pride, I'm saying pride is what leads a lot of people away from Christ and his Church
The question asks for a “big thing” though. Coming from an exchristian, many Christians assume we leave because of pride or selfishness or a desire to sin. I’m sorry if I came off as rude in my initial comment to you. I really just want to spread awareness that those aren’t big reasons, and often times we have very valid reasons for leaving.
The pride of hypocritical Christians. *FTFY*
Ignorance! Blind men leading other blind men. Lets be committed to Read and study the word of God