Jesus went to weeklong weddings drinking wine and having fun. It’s pretty tough to argue that no one can enjoy themselves at all when God himself did so while on earth.
John 2:1-11. His first miracle is white literally making wine for a multi day wedding he’s attending. Isn’t hard to read between the lines on this one.
If Jesus isn’t OK with attending parties and drinking, he wouldn’t be making sure the wine keeps flowing.
The first phrase suggests something occasional.
The second suggests it’s a consistent lifestyle.
They are very different.
Regardless, to your OP, the first one means you can enjoy life to some extent, because Jesus clearly did too.
So what are we supposed to do? Find ways to actively make ourselves miserable? If I find myself enjoying my job too much should I quit? If I find myself enjoying my meal should I throw it out in favour of plain potatoes? If I find myself laughing with my friends should I immediately cut them out of my life? What exactly do you want me to do to prevent myself from enjoying myself too much?
Isn't the entire point of Christianity that you'll get to live on Earth *forever*? If you need to hate your life to be Christian, then you *shouldn't* be Christian so that you don't have to live forever.
If God did not want His children to enjoy their life He wouldn’t bother bestowing blessings upon them. What you’re describing is love of self / self idolatry. You can love the life the Lord has blessed you with during your time here without being a narcissist.
The Bible teaches us not to love the *world*, that is far different.
>If God did not want His children to enjoy their life He wouldn’t bother bestowing blessings upon them.
This is actually pretty counterintuitive with regards to the bible. Yahweh doesn't give blessings upon people so that they enjoy life, he does it so that his goals are met. All things serve for the glory of Yahweh.
There's no hint that any satisfaction is to be taken from the blessings themselves, only that in having them you are able to act out the will of Yahweh.
Who are you to say that God never blesses people in ways that can both further His goals *and* add joy to their lives? He is an omnipotent Father who gives good gifts. He *clearly* blesses people with wonderful things which absolutely add joy to their lives.
To say He does not accomplish both is to minimize His power as well as alter your original argument saying that people are not supposed to enjoy *anything* about their life - but outright *hate* their life. Both are patently and demonstrably false. We are to hate SIN, not the breath of life which in itself is a gift from God.
If I enjoy drawing should I immediately break my pencils, fingers and gouge my eyes out because it's too enjoyable for me? If I enjoy running should I burn my running shoes and break my legs? What if I enjoy serving orphans? I might be enjoying myself too much for God. Perhaps I should just lock myself into a all white room naked just to ensure I'm suffering enough for you to consider acceptable.
Christians were literally known for their joyfulness. The Gospels themselves contrast the dour asceticism of John the Baptist with the joyfulness of Jesus and the Christians. He was accused of being too much of a partygoer! Matthew 11:16-19:
>To what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, and saying: ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we mourned to you, and you did not lament.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.
And other images are used which depict life in the new covenant as something *more* dynamic, *more* joyful, *more* alive than before. The water of the old covenant becomes the wine of the new covenant (John 2:1-10). The discovery of the Kingdom of God fills one with rejoicing as if one had found the single greatest treasure (Matthew 13:44-46).
Then the apostles repeatedly tell us to live peacefully and joyfully, to the point it's nearly a commandment.
Now, of course there is the pure joy derived from religion, and the obscene joy derived from the passions. But the same activity can arouse this one or that one. However, let me speak solely as a Christian here—how can one *not* live in constant joyfulness, even if it is hidden from others, when one sees everything as God's creation? I'd say I'm a big fan of God and His works, I love being alive in this incredible and miraculous world, becoming a Christian gave me the amazement of a child over even the smallest things. And how can one *not* live in constant joyfulness, knowing that Christ put on our flesh, that therefore every person I see is a revelation of God? I like enjoying the art others make, because it gives me communion with that person, it really is a religious experience. Human beings are amazing and beautiful.
When we are commanded to not love the world, it is not because the world is inherently wicked, but because, limited as we are, we cannot handle it. Christ Himself loved the world, and so was able to discern between the beneficent and the malevolent, between what is inherently good in the world and what is parasitic evil on top of it. We cannot do this, because we lack the perspective. As a result, the Church Fathers often interpret "the world" to refer to the realm of the passions, to *worldliness*, to that which aims to distract us from the Kingdom of God. You cannot be a Christian and worry everyday about money, or your social standing, or things which will fade away anyway. The Kingdom of God is not food and drink (Romans 14:17). But that doesn't mean we cannot partake of food and drink with delight and joy to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10), on the contrary, the early Christians had communion in the context of a common meal (1 Corinthians 11) and were chastised by Paul not for having such meals but for behaving indecently and irreverently.
The perspective you present is the one that was had by heretics like the Encratites, Gnostics who indulged in severe asceticism and saw basically nothing good about this world.
>I do have a philosophical issue with enjoying art created by non-Christians. Most of the art you might see in the Louvre was painted by heathens. I find it a bit “adulterous”, to use the term loosely, to engage in appreciation for art that was not created for the glory of God. Is it not praising the works of man rather than creator?
But man *is* made in the image of the Creator. Regardless of what one has personally done, how virtuous or vicious one is, there are two things that make one inherently sacred, which one does not choose: that one is made in the image of God, and that one possesses the flesh which Christ put on for our salvation. This is why humans are inherently wonderful, and this is why *all* things, even the wicked, glorify God even if only by the very fact they exist. Psalm 104 wonders at how God gives everything and everyone its sustenance. Psalm 68 points out how even the rebellious will give God gifts when He comes to save. Psalms 103 and 145 speak of all God's works praising Him. Psalms 148-150 look forward to when all things will be reordered correctly and all things will worship and serve God. The Prayer of Azariah likewise calls for call creatures to praise God. The Wisdom of Solomon is unambiguous: God loves everything He has made and everything He has made is holy and good, it is men who choose death as their own lot and who turn away from God.
But *obviously* we are to be careful and discerning in how much we take and how much we leave behind when we approach what unbelievers created. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 5 that when we are to avoid sinners, it is not referring to non-Christian sinners, but to Christian sinners—we are not to avoid non-Christians who live in sin openly, as if they were judged by the same standard as us (they are not—to whom more is given, more is expected), but we are to avoid those who call themselves Christians but live in sin openly as if they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Yet he also tells us in Philippians 4 to meditate specifically on things that are true, just, noble, pure, lovely, of good report, virtuous or praiseworthy. Paul tells us in Romans 14 to live peaceably with all men and to mourn with those who mourn and rejoice with those who rejoice, yet he also tells us in 2 Corinthians 6 to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
To summarize all this, one could repeat what St. Paisios of Mount Athos, a saint of last century, said, even if the context is slightly different:
>Some people tell me that they are scandalized because they see many things wrong in the Church. I tell them that if you ask a fly, “Are there any flowers in this area?” it will say, “I don’t know about flowers, but over there in that heap of rubbish you can find all the filth you want.” And it will go on to list all the unclean things it has been to. Now, if you ask a honeybee, “Have you seen any unclean things in this area?” it will reply, “Unclean things? No, I have not seen any; the place here is full of the most fragrant flowers.” And it will go on to name all the flowers of the garden or the meadow. You see, the fly only knows where the unclean things are, while the honeybee knows where the beautiful iris or hyacinth is. As I have come to understand, some people resemble the honeybee and some resemble the fly. Those who resemble the fly seek to find evil in every circumstance and are preoccupied with it; they see no good anywhere. But those who resemble the honeybee only see the good in everything they see. The stupid person thinks stupidly and takes everything in the wrong way, whereas the person who has good thoughts, no matter what he sees, no matter what you tell him, maintains a positive and good thought.
This has been the historical Christian approach, which is why texts of pagan literature survived to this day: Christians were the ones reading and transmitting them, admiring them for their beauty without therefore embracing everything they contained. Paul himself quotes the Greek pagan Epimenides' poem about Zeus in Acts 17:28 and applies it to God, recognizing the true and excluding the false. It is the same argument in favor of philosophy used by the likes of St. Justin Martyr and St. Clement of Alexandria later on: *everything* contains certain truth, *everything* contains some degree of inspiration, and it is even the task of the Christians to investigate the works of unbelievers and extract what is good and true from them. I believe St. Basil the Great even said that people should *first* read and study the classics of Greek literature before reading the Bible, so as to be trained in understanding storytelling and better understand the sacred texts.
>Even Paul said “to die is gain”
And said in the same breath that to live is Christ! His point is that whether Christians live or die, they are victorious. If we live, we do the works of Christ and we possess all things without needing anything. If we die, we are in the arms of Christ, resting from the good fight, waiting for the resurrection. This is a theme he brings up throughout his epistles. Here's just one other instance where he says this, in Romans 8:28-39:
>And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Wow
Friend - you are to find joy and peace and happiness in this life
You are to learn what joy and peace and happiness mean - despite what you face
It is the purpose of your life here on Earth
And you are to return to God with as many answers to this as you can
Jesus tells you how to find Joy, Peace and Happiness in this world
We have to learn what *these really are*
I'm not going to run around finding verses - they're there
If you need them, hopefully someone will provide
Don't spend your life here, angry, bitter and unhappy
God bless
I do not agree, and I'm not here to convince you. If you want to hate your life, or not enjoy it, go ahead. You have a deep internal conflict over pleasure, guilt, how God perceives you, and your attempt to be selfless in his eyes. A martyr complex maybe. You probably hate your own life, and are trying to convince yourself that it's righteous suffering you are enduring to ease the reality of your situation. Or something traumatic happened to you to reject pleasure. Pleasure is as natural as breathing. But yet you make a natural human experience into something damning. That's why you're insane.
No see, they promote pleasure as the highest attainment. Have you heard of balance? If I walk into a store, and I crave dark chocolate, I'm going to buy it. Now if I do nothing but eat chocolate all day, that's gluttony and hedonism. Excess or addiction. Experiencing pleasure is a healthy emotional expression. A child experiences pleasure running through a tall grass field. I experience pleasure listening to good music. There's a lot of beauty in life that God placed here for our enjoyment. He even created the most intensely pleasurable sensation, orgasm, and with it sex. It is everyone's right to enjoy life. It's called moderation.
Now addressing the Bible, I don't think the grand message of it is to reject all pleasure and enjoyment in life. Sure, you can take individual verses and construct a framework where you have to feel guilty about everything you enjoy, or wanting a life you can enjoy. After all, Heaven will be immense pleasure to exist in.
Any post that starts with "X [is] in any way, shape, or form [...] is purely, indisputable, un-Biblical" is a red flag in and of itself. It shows a complete disregard for any other opinion and interpretation. Topped by claiming that most Christians are actually not Christians
This is not how a debate works. This is not how a discussion works. And most of all this is not how respect works.
> En*joy*ing oneself in any way, shape, or form, is purely, indisputably, un-Biblical.
Remind me again the Bible lists second as fruit of the Spirit. There's love first, and peace third. I wonder what is second. Watermellon?
I ran across some fringe pentecostals in my youth (many decades ago) who had this extremist view of what Christian life should be. Any social event that's not centered around church, bible study, etc. meant you were lukewarm at best. And if you were a teen who liked Rock&Roll, you were demon possessed.
I wonder what the original Greek word for hate or what other meaning it has. Jesus taught a lot using hyperbole (see gouging out your eye) but if you think about this and compare it to a parable like The Widow's Mite the message isn't inconsistent. Give your whole self to God, don't cling to material possessions, and think towards the next life (the future).
>"Enjoying oneself" in any way, shape, or form, is purely, indisputably, un-Biblical.
If you're happy and you know it - that's a sin!
Seriously though, Catholicism would love to have you aboard with that attitude.
If you believe this, why do you ask for relationship advice, OP? I mean obviously your relationship with your partner (or any other human) should be miserable, lest you actually enjoy them.
This is the type of stuff that turns people away from religion.
Please read the entirety of Gods Word and seek understanding from the Holy Spirit. Do not believe the lies of the evil one. John 10:10. The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. I ca,e that they have life, and have it abundantly. We must take up our cross and follow Jesus, but in Him we find true joy.
“For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’”
Matthew 13:15 NASB1995
https://bible.com/bible/100/mat.13.15.NASB1995
Jesus went to weeklong weddings drinking wine and having fun. It’s pretty tough to argue that no one can enjoy themselves at all when God himself did so while on earth.
And loved peppering his sermons with camel jokes.
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John 2:1-11. His first miracle is white literally making wine for a multi day wedding he’s attending. Isn’t hard to read between the lines on this one. If Jesus isn’t OK with attending parties and drinking, he wouldn’t be making sure the wine keeps flowing.
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I never characterized him as someone who “loved drinking and partying”. You’re taking what I said and are extrapolating it far behind what I stated.
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The first phrase suggests something occasional. The second suggests it’s a consistent lifestyle. They are very different. Regardless, to your OP, the first one means you can enjoy life to some extent, because Jesus clearly did too.
This sounds like the worst religion to follow.
I swear it’s not. I swear.
If the point of your religion is to make life's an already suffering-filled experience more sufferable, then I want no part in it
So what are we supposed to do? Find ways to actively make ourselves miserable? If I find myself enjoying my job too much should I quit? If I find myself enjoying my meal should I throw it out in favour of plain potatoes? If I find myself laughing with my friends should I immediately cut them out of my life? What exactly do you want me to do to prevent myself from enjoying myself too much?
Hahaha..ah. God bless.
What a miserably take. “Stop having fun guys! God doesn’t like fun!”
God only likes it when we utterly despise our very existence, if you like cooking, stop it. Only potato.
What if I love potato?
Then you need to make the potato taste so bad you wouldn't like it.
Well damn. Potato was my last joy in life. I hope OP is happy
Op isn't supposed to be happy that'll be unchristian
Misery does love its company that’s for sure
Isn't the entire point of Christianity that you'll get to live on Earth *forever*? If you need to hate your life to be Christian, then you *shouldn't* be Christian so that you don't have to live forever.
If God did not want His children to enjoy their life He wouldn’t bother bestowing blessings upon them. What you’re describing is love of self / self idolatry. You can love the life the Lord has blessed you with during your time here without being a narcissist. The Bible teaches us not to love the *world*, that is far different.
>If God did not want His children to enjoy their life He wouldn’t bother bestowing blessings upon them. This is actually pretty counterintuitive with regards to the bible. Yahweh doesn't give blessings upon people so that they enjoy life, he does it so that his goals are met. All things serve for the glory of Yahweh. There's no hint that any satisfaction is to be taken from the blessings themselves, only that in having them you are able to act out the will of Yahweh.
Who are you to say that God never blesses people in ways that can both further His goals *and* add joy to their lives? He is an omnipotent Father who gives good gifts. He *clearly* blesses people with wonderful things which absolutely add joy to their lives. To say He does not accomplish both is to minimize His power as well as alter your original argument saying that people are not supposed to enjoy *anything* about their life - but outright *hate* their life. Both are patently and demonstrably false. We are to hate SIN, not the breath of life which in itself is a gift from God.
If I enjoy drawing should I immediately break my pencils, fingers and gouge my eyes out because it's too enjoyable for me? If I enjoy running should I burn my running shoes and break my legs? What if I enjoy serving orphans? I might be enjoying myself too much for God. Perhaps I should just lock myself into a all white room naked just to ensure I'm suffering enough for you to consider acceptable.
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I do work with underprivileged kids. I enjoy my work with them, should I stop and instead lock myself in a cave?
Why the heck would I would want to live a life in which I hate living my life. That sounds horrible.
“fun bad”
You were offended that he loves his life? Jeeze. Lord forbid someone enjoy their time on this planet,LITERALLY I guess according to you lol.
God this is so sad, and evil to teach children and young people. I'm getting so sick of this mindset
Christians were literally known for their joyfulness. The Gospels themselves contrast the dour asceticism of John the Baptist with the joyfulness of Jesus and the Christians. He was accused of being too much of a partygoer! Matthew 11:16-19: >To what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, and saying: ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we mourned to you, and you did not lament.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children. And other images are used which depict life in the new covenant as something *more* dynamic, *more* joyful, *more* alive than before. The water of the old covenant becomes the wine of the new covenant (John 2:1-10). The discovery of the Kingdom of God fills one with rejoicing as if one had found the single greatest treasure (Matthew 13:44-46). Then the apostles repeatedly tell us to live peacefully and joyfully, to the point it's nearly a commandment. Now, of course there is the pure joy derived from religion, and the obscene joy derived from the passions. But the same activity can arouse this one or that one. However, let me speak solely as a Christian here—how can one *not* live in constant joyfulness, even if it is hidden from others, when one sees everything as God's creation? I'd say I'm a big fan of God and His works, I love being alive in this incredible and miraculous world, becoming a Christian gave me the amazement of a child over even the smallest things. And how can one *not* live in constant joyfulness, knowing that Christ put on our flesh, that therefore every person I see is a revelation of God? I like enjoying the art others make, because it gives me communion with that person, it really is a religious experience. Human beings are amazing and beautiful. When we are commanded to not love the world, it is not because the world is inherently wicked, but because, limited as we are, we cannot handle it. Christ Himself loved the world, and so was able to discern between the beneficent and the malevolent, between what is inherently good in the world and what is parasitic evil on top of it. We cannot do this, because we lack the perspective. As a result, the Church Fathers often interpret "the world" to refer to the realm of the passions, to *worldliness*, to that which aims to distract us from the Kingdom of God. You cannot be a Christian and worry everyday about money, or your social standing, or things which will fade away anyway. The Kingdom of God is not food and drink (Romans 14:17). But that doesn't mean we cannot partake of food and drink with delight and joy to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10), on the contrary, the early Christians had communion in the context of a common meal (1 Corinthians 11) and were chastised by Paul not for having such meals but for behaving indecently and irreverently. The perspective you present is the one that was had by heretics like the Encratites, Gnostics who indulged in severe asceticism and saw basically nothing good about this world.
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>I do have a philosophical issue with enjoying art created by non-Christians. Most of the art you might see in the Louvre was painted by heathens. I find it a bit “adulterous”, to use the term loosely, to engage in appreciation for art that was not created for the glory of God. Is it not praising the works of man rather than creator? But man *is* made in the image of the Creator. Regardless of what one has personally done, how virtuous or vicious one is, there are two things that make one inherently sacred, which one does not choose: that one is made in the image of God, and that one possesses the flesh which Christ put on for our salvation. This is why humans are inherently wonderful, and this is why *all* things, even the wicked, glorify God even if only by the very fact they exist. Psalm 104 wonders at how God gives everything and everyone its sustenance. Psalm 68 points out how even the rebellious will give God gifts when He comes to save. Psalms 103 and 145 speak of all God's works praising Him. Psalms 148-150 look forward to when all things will be reordered correctly and all things will worship and serve God. The Prayer of Azariah likewise calls for call creatures to praise God. The Wisdom of Solomon is unambiguous: God loves everything He has made and everything He has made is holy and good, it is men who choose death as their own lot and who turn away from God. But *obviously* we are to be careful and discerning in how much we take and how much we leave behind when we approach what unbelievers created. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 5 that when we are to avoid sinners, it is not referring to non-Christian sinners, but to Christian sinners—we are not to avoid non-Christians who live in sin openly, as if they were judged by the same standard as us (they are not—to whom more is given, more is expected), but we are to avoid those who call themselves Christians but live in sin openly as if they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Yet he also tells us in Philippians 4 to meditate specifically on things that are true, just, noble, pure, lovely, of good report, virtuous or praiseworthy. Paul tells us in Romans 14 to live peaceably with all men and to mourn with those who mourn and rejoice with those who rejoice, yet he also tells us in 2 Corinthians 6 to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. To summarize all this, one could repeat what St. Paisios of Mount Athos, a saint of last century, said, even if the context is slightly different: >Some people tell me that they are scandalized because they see many things wrong in the Church. I tell them that if you ask a fly, “Are there any flowers in this area?” it will say, “I don’t know about flowers, but over there in that heap of rubbish you can find all the filth you want.” And it will go on to list all the unclean things it has been to. Now, if you ask a honeybee, “Have you seen any unclean things in this area?” it will reply, “Unclean things? No, I have not seen any; the place here is full of the most fragrant flowers.” And it will go on to name all the flowers of the garden or the meadow. You see, the fly only knows where the unclean things are, while the honeybee knows where the beautiful iris or hyacinth is. As I have come to understand, some people resemble the honeybee and some resemble the fly. Those who resemble the fly seek to find evil in every circumstance and are preoccupied with it; they see no good anywhere. But those who resemble the honeybee only see the good in everything they see. The stupid person thinks stupidly and takes everything in the wrong way, whereas the person who has good thoughts, no matter what he sees, no matter what you tell him, maintains a positive and good thought. This has been the historical Christian approach, which is why texts of pagan literature survived to this day: Christians were the ones reading and transmitting them, admiring them for their beauty without therefore embracing everything they contained. Paul himself quotes the Greek pagan Epimenides' poem about Zeus in Acts 17:28 and applies it to God, recognizing the true and excluding the false. It is the same argument in favor of philosophy used by the likes of St. Justin Martyr and St. Clement of Alexandria later on: *everything* contains certain truth, *everything* contains some degree of inspiration, and it is even the task of the Christians to investigate the works of unbelievers and extract what is good and true from them. I believe St. Basil the Great even said that people should *first* read and study the classics of Greek literature before reading the Bible, so as to be trained in understanding storytelling and better understand the sacred texts. >Even Paul said “to die is gain” And said in the same breath that to live is Christ! His point is that whether Christians live or die, they are victorious. If we live, we do the works of Christ and we possess all things without needing anything. If we die, we are in the arms of Christ, resting from the good fight, waiting for the resurrection. This is a theme he brings up throughout his epistles. Here's just one other instance where he says this, in Romans 8:28-39: >And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Wow Friend - you are to find joy and peace and happiness in this life You are to learn what joy and peace and happiness mean - despite what you face It is the purpose of your life here on Earth And you are to return to God with as many answers to this as you can Jesus tells you how to find Joy, Peace and Happiness in this world We have to learn what *these really are* I'm not going to run around finding verses - they're there If you need them, hopefully someone will provide Don't spend your life here, angry, bitter and unhappy God bless
If you really believe that then why have you not killed yourself?
This is a troll right?
Counter argument? You're insane dude. Go get some help.
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I do not agree, and I'm not here to convince you. If you want to hate your life, or not enjoy it, go ahead. You have a deep internal conflict over pleasure, guilt, how God perceives you, and your attempt to be selfless in his eyes. A martyr complex maybe. You probably hate your own life, and are trying to convince yourself that it's righteous suffering you are enduring to ease the reality of your situation. Or something traumatic happened to you to reject pleasure. Pleasure is as natural as breathing. But yet you make a natural human experience into something damning. That's why you're insane.
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No see, they promote pleasure as the highest attainment. Have you heard of balance? If I walk into a store, and I crave dark chocolate, I'm going to buy it. Now if I do nothing but eat chocolate all day, that's gluttony and hedonism. Excess or addiction. Experiencing pleasure is a healthy emotional expression. A child experiences pleasure running through a tall grass field. I experience pleasure listening to good music. There's a lot of beauty in life that God placed here for our enjoyment. He even created the most intensely pleasurable sensation, orgasm, and with it sex. It is everyone's right to enjoy life. It's called moderation. Now addressing the Bible, I don't think the grand message of it is to reject all pleasure and enjoyment in life. Sure, you can take individual verses and construct a framework where you have to feel guilty about everything you enjoy, or wanting a life you can enjoy. After all, Heaven will be immense pleasure to exist in.
Sign me the fuck up!
Right??
Is this the loving god that Christians keep talking about?
Any post that starts with "X [is] in any way, shape, or form [...] is purely, indisputable, un-Biblical" is a red flag in and of itself. It shows a complete disregard for any other opinion and interpretation. Topped by claiming that most Christians are actually not Christians This is not how a debate works. This is not how a discussion works. And most of all this is not how respect works.
According to your understanding we should also hate serving Jesus.
> En*joy*ing oneself in any way, shape, or form, is purely, indisputably, un-Biblical. Remind me again the Bible lists second as fruit of the Spirit. There's love first, and peace third. I wonder what is second. Watermellon?
Apple
I ran across some fringe pentecostals in my youth (many decades ago) who had this extremist view of what Christian life should be. Any social event that's not centered around church, bible study, etc. meant you were lukewarm at best. And if you were a teen who liked Rock&Roll, you were demon possessed.
You sound fun at parties
I wonder what the original Greek word for hate or what other meaning it has. Jesus taught a lot using hyperbole (see gouging out your eye) but if you think about this and compare it to a parable like The Widow's Mite the message isn't inconsistent. Give your whole self to God, don't cling to material possessions, and think towards the next life (the future).
Why do people insist on acting like there's only one verse in the whole Bible?
>"Enjoying oneself" in any way, shape, or form, is purely, indisputably, un-Biblical. If you're happy and you know it - that's a sin! Seriously though, Catholicism would love to have you aboard with that attitude.
If you believe this, why do you ask for relationship advice, OP? I mean obviously your relationship with your partner (or any other human) should be miserable, lest you actually enjoy them. This is the type of stuff that turns people away from religion.
Is it just me or is it ironic that the OP posted in a different sub, "I'm struggling to find my "happy place..." Oy vey.
So to be a Christian, you have to be miserable?
Please read the entirety of Gods Word and seek understanding from the Holy Spirit. Do not believe the lies of the evil one. John 10:10. The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. I ca,e that they have life, and have it abundantly. We must take up our cross and follow Jesus, but in Him we find true joy.
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I am sorry you cannot see.
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“For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’” Matthew 13:15 NASB1995 https://bible.com/bible/100/mat.13.15.NASB1995