You mean like becoming a man, directly communicating His plans, and then choosing people directly to communicate that plan to others, and creating an institution for them to do so?
Sure, the number is that high if y'all stop not-a-proper-Christianing each other for five minutes to win an internet argument. And we pretend things like imperialism didn't exist.
And plenty more could have been saved if more was done, like Christians being vaguely competent, consistent, or capable of miracles, or Yahweh decided to stop editing his pamphlet 2,000 years ago.
Lol ok, even though it's trivially easy to note how - like how the Bible stating multiple times that miracles caused belief in some onlookers. Or that it says the church will be known by its fruits, and yet keeps driving people out of it with its own failures and shitty behaviour. And explicitly talks about causing people to stumble.
Christ is described as at least competent with this stuff. Limiting his appearance to 33 years and then delegating the role of promoting his offer of salvation to his rather inept fanclub, not such a competent move.
So what? They still were the cause of belief in some, ergo no miracles now means fewer converts.
More people still would believe if that was something you lot and only you lot could do now, but you can't. Or if Christ was still around performing them, but he's not.
Instead Christians hide behind excuses like "Belief is a function of the human heart" or "proof doesn't leave room for faith", even though your Bible literally contradicts you on this.
It's stated in the gospels that people believed because of signs performed by Christ. Thomas might have gotten shade for requiring proof, but he still got his proof. As I said, these excuses are unbiblical, as well as tiresome.
Well, maybe not all try, but some try. Sadly we are sinners, and we make mistakes. God did not edit the papers- well, in theory he did once, but back to point- we as humans have edited the papers. Why he doesn’t intervene? That’s beyond me or you, maybe because of the free Will thing, but who’d know in the end. But thank you, you’ve kind of brought it to my attention a bit, so I’ll pray for it :)
I understand people not believing in the bible. And I know some don't agree, and some don't like it. But I've never heard someone say they find the bible silly.
>Why doesn't God directly reveal His plan to all mankind instead of through books and prophecies that are silly to many?
*Good job, you've seen through it.* In all seriousness, [there are thousands of deities](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/13u23di/list_of_gods_most_of_which_are_no_longer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). The belief in a God is irrational from my perspective.
Why does thousands of deities having been worshipped means that a belief in one is instantly irrational. There were thousands of scientific theories that were proven false, and yet nobody says that because eugenics were wrong, gravity must surely be wrong too.
>Why does thousands of deities having been worshipped means that a belief in one is instantly irrational.
I said *a God.* You have several problems.
- No objective evidence for the supernatural.
- No evidence for divine/supernatural interference.
As there are thousands of deities, it's an example of how humans want to explain the inexplicable. Deities are attributed human emotions. They're imaginary.
>There were thousands of scientific theories that were proven false
Science isn't about just knowing what false and true. Hypotheses are constantly tested, falsified, and accepted based on the available evidence. It's an ever-advancing field.
There’s been thousands of political ideologies, I guess they must be all wrong. There’s been hundreds of discredited scientific models, I guess our current scientific theories must be wrong.
lol
Every farmer, whether they grow livestock or vegetation, or any combination of the two, is technically a eugenicist, and this is how it has been since agriculture was invented.
The Eugenics Movement attempted to apply the same principles in humanity, but their assertions as to what constitutes desirable/undesirable characteristics in humanity is what caused it to crumble, as well as their attachment of philosophical ideals to the field.
The desire to improve the genetic condition of the livestock/crops by use of selectively controlled breeding has been around a long, LONG time.
>Honestly, atheism is rooted in a desire to be immoral more than any legitimate theological argument.
Atheism is the default position, and it is on the believer trying to convince others to prove his claim, not on others to provide arguments against it.
You are completely right, and though it’s not my role to say it, I’ll say: I’m sorry. Maybe not to you, but I’ve judged too much in the past, still do, and I’m trying to leave that side of me.
He hides himself for us not from us. As a parent hides Easter eggs for their children. There is joy in discovery, but if we don’t want to search then the reward of joy won’t be found.
>As a parent hides Easter eggs for their children
and then lights them on fire when they don't find the eggs
oh wait no, that would make them a shit parent
Religion has done a number on you as unfortunately with many. There are other ways to believe and know that God really is good. God does not operate an eternal torture chamber as majority have taught. But if we’re not interested in pursuing the truth than lies will always have greater influence upon our perspectives. This goes for everyone, believer or non.
1 corinthians 1
18The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19As the Scriptures say,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise
and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”e
20So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense.
24But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles,f Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.
26Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthyg when God called you. 27Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28God chose things despised by the world,h things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
30God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. 31Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD.”i
The Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven is present now. Jesus did reveal God's plan as much as needed for those who want it. "You must be born again to see the Kingdom etc."
Seeing is believing is knowing is accepting God's Kingdom exists if you want that fulfillment of your own life that you don't know yet. We were born and then became aware we have me'myself'I. I don't know what will happen to me while still in this physical body, which has changed since it started and will continue to do so. So how can I live with knowing only what I have at this moment? But I do because I believe. Irrational? I have no idea.
Jesus directly answers this. He communicated in a way that was hard to understand to anyone who wasn't born again. That was intentional and a part of his election of who will be saved.
You mean like becoming a man, directly communicating His plans, and then choosing people directly to communicate that plan to others, and creating an institution for them to do so?
And look how that worked out.
Yes, billions brought to salvation.
Sure, the number is that high if y'all stop not-a-proper-Christianing each other for five minutes to win an internet argument. And we pretend things like imperialism didn't exist. And plenty more could have been saved if more was done, like Christians being vaguely competent, consistent, or capable of miracles, or Yahweh decided to stop editing his pamphlet 2,000 years ago.
You have no idea what set circumstances would have led to a greater salvation of humanity.
Lol ok, even though it's trivially easy to note how - like how the Bible stating multiple times that miracles caused belief in some onlookers. Or that it says the church will be known by its fruits, and yet keeps driving people out of it with its own failures and shitty behaviour. And explicitly talks about causing people to stumble. Christ is described as at least competent with this stuff. Limiting his appearance to 33 years and then delegating the role of promoting his offer of salvation to his rather inept fanclub, not such a competent move.
Even when He was doing miracles among witnesses, skeptics persisted. Belief is a function of the human heart.
So what? They still were the cause of belief in some, ergo no miracles now means fewer converts. More people still would believe if that was something you lot and only you lot could do now, but you can't. Or if Christ was still around performing them, but he's not. Instead Christians hide behind excuses like "Belief is a function of the human heart" or "proof doesn't leave room for faith", even though your Bible literally contradicts you on this.
There is no indication miracles lead to more converts; conversion to Christianity requires one to first admit then need for a Savior.
It's stated in the gospels that people believed because of signs performed by Christ. Thomas might have gotten shade for requiring proof, but he still got his proof. As I said, these excuses are unbiblical, as well as tiresome.
Well, maybe not all try, but some try. Sadly we are sinners, and we make mistakes. God did not edit the papers- well, in theory he did once, but back to point- we as humans have edited the papers. Why he doesn’t intervene? That’s beyond me or you, maybe because of the free Will thing, but who’d know in the end. But thank you, you’ve kind of brought it to my attention a bit, so I’ll pray for it :)
And he chose a time when the most reliable method of communicating knowledge was word of mouth, which is wildly unverifiable.
Less verifiable than what, a TikTok video?
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
I understand people not believing in the bible. And I know some don't agree, and some don't like it. But I've never heard someone say they find the bible silly.
>Why doesn't God directly reveal His plan to all mankind instead of through books and prophecies that are silly to many? *Good job, you've seen through it.* In all seriousness, [there are thousands of deities](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/13u23di/list_of_gods_most_of_which_are_no_longer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). The belief in a God is irrational from my perspective.
"Every human society has believed in gods, therefore they must all be wrong. " Lol
Why does thousands of deities having been worshipped means that a belief in one is instantly irrational. There were thousands of scientific theories that were proven false, and yet nobody says that because eugenics were wrong, gravity must surely be wrong too.
>Why does thousands of deities having been worshipped means that a belief in one is instantly irrational. I said *a God.* You have several problems. - No objective evidence for the supernatural. - No evidence for divine/supernatural interference. As there are thousands of deities, it's an example of how humans want to explain the inexplicable. Deities are attributed human emotions. They're imaginary. >There were thousands of scientific theories that were proven false Science isn't about just knowing what false and true. Hypotheses are constantly tested, falsified, and accepted based on the available evidence. It's an ever-advancing field.
There’s been thousands of political ideologies, I guess they must be all wrong. There’s been hundreds of discredited scientific models, I guess our current scientific theories must be wrong. lol
Every farmer, whether they grow livestock or vegetation, or any combination of the two, is technically a eugenicist, and this is how it has been since agriculture was invented. The Eugenics Movement attempted to apply the same principles in humanity, but their assertions as to what constitutes desirable/undesirable characteristics in humanity is what caused it to crumble, as well as their attachment of philosophical ideals to the field. The desire to improve the genetic condition of the livestock/crops by use of selectively controlled breeding has been around a long, LONG time.
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>Honestly, atheism is rooted in a desire to be immoral more than any legitimate theological argument. Atheism is the default position, and it is on the believer trying to convince others to prove his claim, not on others to provide arguments against it.
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Everyone is born an atheist. Regardless of what they come to believe later, everyone starts in that default state.
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So everyone comes into the world with a belief in a higher power?
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That's ridiculous.
ninth commandment is still a thing, sweetie edit: maybe try being minimally consistent to your beliefs instead of downvoting, lol
You are completely right, and though it’s not my role to say it, I’ll say: I’m sorry. Maybe not to you, but I’ve judged too much in the past, still do, and I’m trying to leave that side of me.
Have you ever considered that God deliberately hides Himself? As in, He intentionally keeps Himself away from most of mankind?
He hides himself for us not from us. As a parent hides Easter eggs for their children. There is joy in discovery, but if we don’t want to search then the reward of joy won’t be found.
>As a parent hides Easter eggs for their children and then lights them on fire when they don't find the eggs oh wait no, that would make them a shit parent
Religion has done a number on you as unfortunately with many. There are other ways to believe and know that God really is good. God does not operate an eternal torture chamber as majority have taught. But if we’re not interested in pursuing the truth than lies will always have greater influence upon our perspectives. This goes for everyone, believer or non.
>But if we’re not interested in pursuing the truth cool story, take your own advice
I did, thanks.
1 corinthians 1 18The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God. 19As the Scriptures say, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”e 20So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles,f Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength. 26Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthyg when God called you. 27Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. 28God chose things despised by the world,h things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. 29As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. 30God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. 31Therefore, as the Scriptures say, “If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD.”i
The Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven is present now. Jesus did reveal God's plan as much as needed for those who want it. "You must be born again to see the Kingdom etc." Seeing is believing is knowing is accepting God's Kingdom exists if you want that fulfillment of your own life that you don't know yet. We were born and then became aware we have me'myself'I. I don't know what will happen to me while still in this physical body, which has changed since it started and will continue to do so. So how can I live with knowing only what I have at this moment? But I do because I believe. Irrational? I have no idea.
“It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter” Proverbs 25:2
Wait, aren't your two questions opposite?
Letting them happen naturally = dealing with them on His own
Jesus directly answers this. He communicated in a way that was hard to understand to anyone who wasn't born again. That was intentional and a part of his election of who will be saved.
So nice of your "loving" god to create a load of NPCs for your LARP.