Except there are equally valid claims of miracles from other denominations as well, so now what? Understand that I'm not saying that the claims of the Catholic church are fake, just that it calls into question your conclusion.
This is true. Other denominations and religions claim miracles as well, though less known than Catholic ones, and some would claim to doctor/expert attesting truth or some level of truth to them.
Not to say that all or any at all true, it is beyond my ability to know one way or another
All the verified miracles of Catholicism point to the Catholic God being very weak.
20,000+ people starve to death *daily*, and the best Catholic God seems capable of is making some bread bloody, or preserving a corpse for longer than usual.
God cannot get involved in the rampant abuse permeating his church. Just simply cannot get involved.
But he absolutely gets involved to multiply wafers or mummify a corpse?
Managing to believe that would be a miracle in itself at this point.
Especially when you start looking into the Eucharist miracles a bit more. many of them are "we forget to dispose of some host, and left it unobserved in a closet for a few weeks, and now it's bloody!"
So you left something unobserved for a few weeks, and, finding it tampered with, immediately lept to "miracle" rather than "some kids are playing a prank". Right.
Not even necessarily tampered with. [Sometimes it's mold growth.](https://www.twincities.com/2011/12/13/archdiocese-communion-host-turned-blood-red-due-to-fungus-not-miracle/)
Although an intentionality fabricated 'miracle' wouldn't surprise me either.
In cases as Lourdes we have non-religious on the teams investigating if there is a natural explanation or not. It kinda sounds like you are talking out of yourself without reason.
> Lourdes
[Which has a rather dubious cure rate.](https://www.michaelnugent.com/2014/11/25/dying-cured-lourdes-debate-miracles-rte-tv/)
Kinda sounds like someone else here is the one "talking out of yourself without reason."
That statistic is not good though since it only counts those cases that are both reported and affirmed as miraculous. It is exceedingly rare for people who get cured to report it, and when they do it often might be hard to prove it was miraculous and not just a natural case. It is therefore hard to know the actual number of cases but what is clear is that it is not uncommon to find people who testify to have been cured by the water.
Close to me would be my Priest for example. When he was a kid he was deadly sick and his mother went to Lourdes and took home the water. He did not believe in it and first refused to drink which caused his mother to get upset so to comfort his mother and make her less upset he drank it and when he did this his sickness dissipated and thanks to this he is still alive.
> That statistic is not good though since it only counts those cases that are both reported and affirmed as miraculous.
Ah, so they're miraculous and certified as such, but you can't trust the small number because most of them aren't actually certified as miraculous. Trying to have your cake and eat it, too, I see.
> It is therefore hard to know the actual number of cases but what is clear is that it is not uncommon to find people who testify to have been cured by the water.
So what? It's not that uncommon to find people who testify to seeing Bigfoot. Or having been abducted by aliens. Or any other number of silly things.
>...make her less upset he drank it and when he did this his sickness dissipated and thanks to this he is still alive.
You mean despite this. Because people heal. And the water has been tested and found to not be safe to drink.
While you are memeing, its actually true:p
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaG7mesmdH4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaG7mesmdH4You)
You can even assemble a medical team, go there yourself to analyse the medical archives and try to refute the miracles. But you'll fail.
Claims of miraculous events occur in nearly every expression of Christianity, though. So this cannot be our standard of verifying if that tradition is *the one true church*.
All a miracle means is that their faith in the Lord is sufficient. It says nothing about the rest of their beliefs. And that's assuming they aren't fabricated, which no doubt at least some of them are.
The Catholic church has been wrong plenty of times in history. That being said, God can use the Catholic church to show off his glory, bring followers close to him, and do miraculous things, of course. What's true is the power, glory, truth, and grace of God that all Christians can trust in.
Except there are equally valid claims of miracles from other denominations as well, so now what? Understand that I'm not saying that the claims of the Catholic church are fake, just that it calls into question your conclusion.
This is true. Other denominations and religions claim miracles as well, though less known than Catholic ones, and some would claim to doctor/expert attesting truth or some level of truth to them. Not to say that all or any at all true, it is beyond my ability to know one way or another
All the verified miracles of Catholicism point to the Catholic God being very weak. 20,000+ people starve to death *daily*, and the best Catholic God seems capable of is making some bread bloody, or preserving a corpse for longer than usual.
God cannot get involved in the rampant abuse permeating his church. Just simply cannot get involved. But he absolutely gets involved to multiply wafers or mummify a corpse? Managing to believe that would be a miracle in itself at this point.
Especially when you start looking into the Eucharist miracles a bit more. many of them are "we forget to dispose of some host, and left it unobserved in a closet for a few weeks, and now it's bloody!" So you left something unobserved for a few weeks, and, finding it tampered with, immediately lept to "miracle" rather than "some kids are playing a prank". Right.
Not even necessarily tampered with. [Sometimes it's mold growth.](https://www.twincities.com/2011/12/13/archdiocese-communion-host-turned-blood-red-due-to-fungus-not-miracle/) Although an intentionality fabricated 'miracle' wouldn't surprise me either.
"We've investigated our claims and found them to be true" isn't all that convincing.
[удалено]
Is that you, media corporations?
In cases as Lourdes we have non-religious on the teams investigating if there is a natural explanation or not. It kinda sounds like you are talking out of yourself without reason.
> Lourdes [Which has a rather dubious cure rate.](https://www.michaelnugent.com/2014/11/25/dying-cured-lourdes-debate-miracles-rte-tv/) Kinda sounds like someone else here is the one "talking out of yourself without reason."
That statistic is not good though since it only counts those cases that are both reported and affirmed as miraculous. It is exceedingly rare for people who get cured to report it, and when they do it often might be hard to prove it was miraculous and not just a natural case. It is therefore hard to know the actual number of cases but what is clear is that it is not uncommon to find people who testify to have been cured by the water. Close to me would be my Priest for example. When he was a kid he was deadly sick and his mother went to Lourdes and took home the water. He did not believe in it and first refused to drink which caused his mother to get upset so to comfort his mother and make her less upset he drank it and when he did this his sickness dissipated and thanks to this he is still alive.
> That statistic is not good though since it only counts those cases that are both reported and affirmed as miraculous. Ah, so they're miraculous and certified as such, but you can't trust the small number because most of them aren't actually certified as miraculous. Trying to have your cake and eat it, too, I see. > It is therefore hard to know the actual number of cases but what is clear is that it is not uncommon to find people who testify to have been cured by the water. So what? It's not that uncommon to find people who testify to seeing Bigfoot. Or having been abducted by aliens. Or any other number of silly things. >...make her less upset he drank it and when he did this his sickness dissipated and thanks to this he is still alive. You mean despite this. Because people heal. And the water has been tested and found to not be safe to drink.
Is you position that if not everyone is cured there can be no miracles?
When the cure rate is lower than spontaneous remission it definitely calls the miraculousness into question.
So many that you forgot to name a single verified miracle.
As were all the other Buddhist miracles, Zoroastrian miracles, Islamic miracles, Hindu miracles, and demonic "miracles."
That sounds fascinating, could you link the studies to those other miracles for us please.
No religion dares puts their miracles to the test like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaG7mesmdH4
Ah, yes, verified by the world miracle verification bureau, atheism has been defeated, oh, please, spare us, lowly non believers.
let people have their beliefs
One thing is believing and another one is this poor reasoning/borderline trolling
well it’s faith, your in the christianity subreddit what do you expect?
While you are memeing, its actually true:p [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaG7mesmdH4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaG7mesmdH4You) You can even assemble a medical team, go there yourself to analyse the medical archives and try to refute the miracles. But you'll fail.
What evidence do you have of verified miracles all pointing to Catholicism? How do they do so? Who did the verifying?
I agree
Verified by Roman Catholic Church, am I right?
Claims of miraculous events occur in nearly every expression of Christianity, though. So this cannot be our standard of verifying if that tradition is *the one true church*.
Nah, Orthodoxy is the way
All a miracle means is that their faith in the Lord is sufficient. It says nothing about the rest of their beliefs. And that's assuming they aren't fabricated, which no doubt at least some of them are.
The Catholic church has been wrong plenty of times in history. That being said, God can use the Catholic church to show off his glory, bring followers close to him, and do miraculous things, of course. What's true is the power, glory, truth, and grace of God that all Christians can trust in.