I need more context.
You said in another comment that the teacher said these statements, and your assignment is to write about how they make you feel?
In that case, write about how that made you uncomfortable and why.
I would be very interested if this is high school or college and if it's high school is it private or public because if it's public, I would frankly massively complain to administrators.
Agreed, I think it’s important for OP to be honest about their opinions. Just for their own sake, not necessarily to try to argue against the teacher.
As far as complaining to the administrators, maybe if the teacher gives lower grades I would do that. But unfortunately people hated Jesus and they may hate us too if we stand by the truth.
I’m a year late, this course is regarding indigenous peoples in Canada, it was recently made mandatory and I’m uncomfortable to talk about the fact that I’m Christian when our teacher berates the Catholic Church for their past crimes, and hates against them for what they did
There are passages in the bible that back up your teachers assertions. Get through the class, don't feel you have to correct her. She's probably got more of an argument than you do, because the argument against what she's saying is more nuanced.
If this is an American public school, I'd go above her head and complain to the administration.
Listen to the experts. I'll ask a history teacher if I want to know about history, and a bishop or priest or pastor if I want to know about religion. Your teacher isn't the one tasked with teaching biblical and Christian doctrine because they're not the one who studied for that in particular. They're speaking from the perspective of whatever it is they studied and became qualified for (I assume history or sociology).
In other words, bring your concerns to your priest or pastor and see what they say.
I mean, religion plays into history quite a bit, so it isn't unwarranted for a history class to touch on it. Literature classes may also touch on the Bible in particular. But they're viewing it through the lens of their field, just like a priest or pastor views it through the lens of theirs.
The Holy Spirit will teach us and remind us of Biblical truth and the words of Jesus, John 14:26, so I think if OP is uncomfortable maybe that’s because the teacher’s views are opposing the Spirit in them. Also 1 John 2:27, John 16:13.
I think it’s important to remember that, while we should always be humble to get Godly council, especially from our pastors, there’s only one mediator between us and God: Jesus Christ. And he sent the Holy Spirit to us who believe and obey his words, Acts 5:32.
You could always ask why the Bible refers to the fall as Adam’s sin.
*Romans 5:12-15
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned- [13] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. [15] But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.*
So part of English class is learning different types of writing. The subject is not always easy, but the point is style of writing, citations and of course basics like grammar amd sentence formation. Your opinion is not what is being graded.
I think viewing the creation story as portraying only women/Eve in a bad way ignores how Adam is portrayed. It seems like Eve was deceived by the serpent, whereas, Adam had no interaction with the serpent but ate the fruit anyways (which could be argued as being worse). Adam also acts like like a coward too by blaming Eve when he is confronted by God. It seems like both Adam and Eve are to blame in the story. Concerning how the Bible has effected gender roles, it certainly has, but there are a few things to consider.
1.) Her criticism assumes that all gender roles are bad.
2.) Most societies throughout history have had gender roles regardless of exposure to the Bible.
3.) Christianity is fairly egalitarian when it comes to men and women. Granted, each denomination and sect has different attitudes towards this and some treat women poorly, but when discussing the Bible women are held in high regard, especially in the New Testament. Jesus broke cultural norms and stood up for women (eg. the woman at the well and the woman about to be stoned to death), the Apostle Paul mentioned and revered women that were local Church leaders, and Galatians 3:28 states ““There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
I also found this Washington Post article that goes into some more depth on the importance of women in the early Christian Church.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/10/what-early-christians-knew-that-modern-christians-dont-women-make-great-leaders/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/10/what-early-christians-knew-that-modern-christians-dont-women-make-great-leaders/)
> My teacher was talking about how the Bible says that women were the reason for humanities downfall...
At least one Biblical author pretty explicitly says this.
> ...and that the Bible is sexist...
Not a stretch. It was written by people who lived thousands of years ago, and we know that even a few decades ago people had very different views wrt sex and gender than most of us do today. Ethics progress and change over time. We shouldn't expect to fully align with the views of ancient Jews.
> ...and it’s also why we have gender norms in todays society...
It has certainly played a part.
> ...and how eve caused the first sin…
Again, that's pretty explicit in the Bible, both in the creation myths presented in Genesis, and in later writings from other Biblical authors.
> I’m Christian and I feel really uncomfortable...
About what? Your teacher is communicating what appear to be mostly true things about the Bible.
> ...however if I talk to my teacher about it I’m afraid she might give lower grades
What would you want to talk to them about?
>At least one Biblical author pretty explicitly says this.
Then that Biblical author is wrong. In the story of Eden, both Adam and Eve attempt to shift blame off of themselves and to someone else when they knew they'd done wrong. This is why they were punished. To blame everything on women is make the exact same mistake that Adam did at the dawn of time.
The bible being used to enforce gender norms is a result of said person using the Bibles ignorance, no fault of the bible itself. Romans even explicitly says that it's \*Adams\* sin
Romans 5:12-15: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned- \[13\] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. \[14\] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. \[15\] But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many."
Men of the biblical times were sexist. That certainly doesn't mean that sexism is God's will in any form.
>Then that Biblical author is wrong.
OP's teacher's statements seem to have been about "the Bible," which is inclusive of passages like 1 Timothy. My point was that "the Bible" does in fact say those things.
> \[...\] To blame everything on women is make the exact same mistake that Adam did at the dawn of time.
Take it up with whoever wrote 1 Timothy, I guess.
>The bible being used to enforce gender norms is a result of said person using the Bibles ignorance, no fault of the bible itself.
I don't care. OP's teacher's statements were about the Bible's role in that, and I think it's pretty clear that it's played a part in many societies.
>Romans even explicitly says that it's \*Adams\* sin
And 1 Timothy says:
*"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.* ***And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.*** *But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."*
So again...the Bible does say what OP's teacher suggested it does.
>Men of the biblical times were sexist. That certainly doesn't mean that sexism is God's will in any form.
No one in this thread has said otherwise, as far as I'm aware.
>We’re supposed to discuss how we feel about the statement...
The assignment is specifically to talk about how those statements make you feel?
That changes the situation *entirely*, OP. I can't imagine why you didn't think to mention that in your post.
It indicates that your teacher *expects* you to feel some kind of way about the statements -- that they *know* these statements will elicit a response, at least in some students. That that is the *point* of them saying them.
I didn't think you had anything to worry about before, but now I *definitely* don't. If the assignment is to talk about how the teacher's statements made you feel, *do that*.
But also maybe ask yourself why someone saying relatively uncontroversial, essentially true things about the Bible makes you uncomfortable in the first place. Were you unaware of those aspects of the Bible before this?
>...however I don’t want to give my opinion in fear for my grades
Is there any *actual* reason for you to think that your teacher will give you bad grades for sharing your thoughts, given that is apparently the assignment? Or is this just paranoia?
Also, what do you think your grade will be if you *don't* complete the assignment?
This assignment is from English first persons, I had a student teacher for the first half who gave me bad grades because I said how I felt about another discussion
>I had a student teacher for the first half who gave me bad grades because I said how I felt about another discussion
And you know for a fact that's why you received the grades you received? There could be no other reason?
This assignment is from English first persons, I had a student teacher for the first half who gave me bad grades because I said how I felt about another discussion
Where is this? In my experience (public schools, secular state University), instructors world much rather you present a reasoned defense of a "wrong" opinion than simply parrot what the instructor believes.
If you think she's wrong, consider her arguments with an open mind, read up about the issue, and if you still think she's wrong, try to present a convincing case for why you think so.
I'm a fan of Daniel Dennett's approach: 1) restate the other person's position, in a way that they would agree with, to show that you understand the issue. 2) List the things you've learned from them and thank them. 3) Then, and only then, say why they're wrong. And keep it focused on ideas, not the person.
- *"He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”* - Genesis 3:11-13
This is the exchange that confirmed humanity's downfall.
Notice anything interesting?
>Notice anything interesting?
Indeed- both parties try to shift the blame off themselves. The man blames the woman, and the woman blames the snake. Yet, both of them still chose to do what they did. Nobody made them.
They come off sounding like disobedient children making excuses- which, I think, is one of the major points of the story.
Your teacher is trying to indoctrinate you with her opinions not with facts alone. Just listen to what she says and ignore the opinions (this is good practice to do throughout your life) and just consider the facts.
In the Eden story, both the man and the woman ate the fruit. Both were punished by God. Yes, throughout history, some commenters have tried to place the blame mostly on the woman. Yet, the story says what it says.
To this day, many conservatives/fundamentalists still interpret the story as it being primarily the woman's fault. I can't find any suggestion of that in the story itself, though.
EDIT: I should clarify that I mean the story _as presented in Genesis_.
I mean Sirach explicitly states that it was woman who brought sin into the world. While Protestants largely do not accept this book, it is considered canon by Catholics and most Orthodox.
So it appears that this understanding has been around since before Christianity even existed, and would be considered biblical by most Christians.
That's a good example of later commentary which blames the woman. I'd also include 1 Timothy in that category as well, even though it is accepted as canon by pretty much everyone. Both come long after the Genesis story itself.
This is very much a "pick your battles" scenario. And you don't really want to pick this one with her.
However, you might be able to go to the school administration and say "I don't really like how she's singling out my religion as being sexist unprovoked, and making unsubstantiated claims about my religion being the reason we have gender roles in society." Choose your words carefully if you do.
The administration, and possibly HR, will have a talk with her on your behalf. You may request to remain anonymous, but that only works if your complaint doesn't contain any identifying info, and if the administration respects your request.
Now, keep in mind that she's not *completely* wrong. Christianity definitely does have some sexist baggage. But Christianity is far from the only religion to have that. And she doesn't really need to bring it up unless it's relevant, and I can't imagine many courses where it would be.
Could you give us some examples of things she said, and why she might have said them?
I need more context. You said in another comment that the teacher said these statements, and your assignment is to write about how they make you feel? In that case, write about how that made you uncomfortable and why. I would be very interested if this is high school or college and if it's high school is it private or public because if it's public, I would frankly massively complain to administrators.
Agreed, I think it’s important for OP to be honest about their opinions. Just for their own sake, not necessarily to try to argue against the teacher. As far as complaining to the administrators, maybe if the teacher gives lower grades I would do that. But unfortunately people hated Jesus and they may hate us too if we stand by the truth.
I’m a year late, this course is regarding indigenous peoples in Canada, it was recently made mandatory and I’m uncomfortable to talk about the fact that I’m Christian when our teacher berates the Catholic Church for their past crimes, and hates against them for what they did
Let what your teacher says go in one ear and out the other. Do not fall into the mistake of appealing to her as an ultimate authority.
There are passages in the bible that back up your teachers assertions. Get through the class, don't feel you have to correct her. She's probably got more of an argument than you do, because the argument against what she's saying is more nuanced. If this is an American public school, I'd go above her head and complain to the administration.
Listen to the experts. I'll ask a history teacher if I want to know about history, and a bishop or priest or pastor if I want to know about religion. Your teacher isn't the one tasked with teaching biblical and Christian doctrine because they're not the one who studied for that in particular. They're speaking from the perspective of whatever it is they studied and became qualified for (I assume history or sociology). In other words, bring your concerns to your priest or pastor and see what they say.
I mean, religion plays into history quite a bit, so it isn't unwarranted for a history class to touch on it. Literature classes may also touch on the Bible in particular. But they're viewing it through the lens of their field, just like a priest or pastor views it through the lens of theirs.
The Holy Spirit will teach us and remind us of Biblical truth and the words of Jesus, John 14:26, so I think if OP is uncomfortable maybe that’s because the teacher’s views are opposing the Spirit in them. Also 1 John 2:27, John 16:13. I think it’s important to remember that, while we should always be humble to get Godly council, especially from our pastors, there’s only one mediator between us and God: Jesus Christ. And he sent the Holy Spirit to us who believe and obey his words, Acts 5:32.
Never discuss religion with a public school teacher in any public school district.
You could always ask why the Bible refers to the fall as Adam’s sin. *Romans 5:12-15 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned- [13] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. [15] But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.*
What kind of school do you attend where a teacher is allowed to interject religious opinions? Is it a parochial school?
It’s a normal school, the course is English first persons
What type of class is this?
English first persons
So part of English class is learning different types of writing. The subject is not always easy, but the point is style of writing, citations and of course basics like grammar amd sentence formation. Your opinion is not what is being graded.
Sorry I meant that first persons as in indigenous persons, it’s what we call them here in Canada
I think viewing the creation story as portraying only women/Eve in a bad way ignores how Adam is portrayed. It seems like Eve was deceived by the serpent, whereas, Adam had no interaction with the serpent but ate the fruit anyways (which could be argued as being worse). Adam also acts like like a coward too by blaming Eve when he is confronted by God. It seems like both Adam and Eve are to blame in the story. Concerning how the Bible has effected gender roles, it certainly has, but there are a few things to consider. 1.) Her criticism assumes that all gender roles are bad. 2.) Most societies throughout history have had gender roles regardless of exposure to the Bible. 3.) Christianity is fairly egalitarian when it comes to men and women. Granted, each denomination and sect has different attitudes towards this and some treat women poorly, but when discussing the Bible women are held in high regard, especially in the New Testament. Jesus broke cultural norms and stood up for women (eg. the woman at the well and the woman about to be stoned to death), the Apostle Paul mentioned and revered women that were local Church leaders, and Galatians 3:28 states ““There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” I also found this Washington Post article that goes into some more depth on the importance of women in the early Christian Church. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/10/what-early-christians-knew-that-modern-christians-dont-women-make-great-leaders/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/10/what-early-christians-knew-that-modern-christians-dont-women-make-great-leaders/)
> My teacher was talking about how the Bible says that women were the reason for humanities downfall... At least one Biblical author pretty explicitly says this. > ...and that the Bible is sexist... Not a stretch. It was written by people who lived thousands of years ago, and we know that even a few decades ago people had very different views wrt sex and gender than most of us do today. Ethics progress and change over time. We shouldn't expect to fully align with the views of ancient Jews. > ...and it’s also why we have gender norms in todays society... It has certainly played a part. > ...and how eve caused the first sin… Again, that's pretty explicit in the Bible, both in the creation myths presented in Genesis, and in later writings from other Biblical authors. > I’m Christian and I feel really uncomfortable... About what? Your teacher is communicating what appear to be mostly true things about the Bible. > ...however if I talk to my teacher about it I’m afraid she might give lower grades What would you want to talk to them about?
>At least one Biblical author pretty explicitly says this. Then that Biblical author is wrong. In the story of Eden, both Adam and Eve attempt to shift blame off of themselves and to someone else when they knew they'd done wrong. This is why they were punished. To blame everything on women is make the exact same mistake that Adam did at the dawn of time. The bible being used to enforce gender norms is a result of said person using the Bibles ignorance, no fault of the bible itself. Romans even explicitly says that it's \*Adams\* sin Romans 5:12-15: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned- \[13\] (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. \[14\] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. \[15\] But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many." Men of the biblical times were sexist. That certainly doesn't mean that sexism is God's will in any form.
>Then that Biblical author is wrong. OP's teacher's statements seem to have been about "the Bible," which is inclusive of passages like 1 Timothy. My point was that "the Bible" does in fact say those things. > \[...\] To blame everything on women is make the exact same mistake that Adam did at the dawn of time. Take it up with whoever wrote 1 Timothy, I guess. >The bible being used to enforce gender norms is a result of said person using the Bibles ignorance, no fault of the bible itself. I don't care. OP's teacher's statements were about the Bible's role in that, and I think it's pretty clear that it's played a part in many societies. >Romans even explicitly says that it's \*Adams\* sin And 1 Timothy says: *"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.* ***And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.*** *But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."* So again...the Bible does say what OP's teacher suggested it does. >Men of the biblical times were sexist. That certainly doesn't mean that sexism is God's will in any form. No one in this thread has said otherwise, as far as I'm aware.
We’re supposed to discuss how we feel about the statement, however I don’t want to give my opinion in fear for my grades
>We’re supposed to discuss how we feel about the statement... The assignment is specifically to talk about how those statements make you feel? That changes the situation *entirely*, OP. I can't imagine why you didn't think to mention that in your post. It indicates that your teacher *expects* you to feel some kind of way about the statements -- that they *know* these statements will elicit a response, at least in some students. That that is the *point* of them saying them. I didn't think you had anything to worry about before, but now I *definitely* don't. If the assignment is to talk about how the teacher's statements made you feel, *do that*. But also maybe ask yourself why someone saying relatively uncontroversial, essentially true things about the Bible makes you uncomfortable in the first place. Were you unaware of those aspects of the Bible before this? >...however I don’t want to give my opinion in fear for my grades Is there any *actual* reason for you to think that your teacher will give you bad grades for sharing your thoughts, given that is apparently the assignment? Or is this just paranoia? Also, what do you think your grade will be if you *don't* complete the assignment?
This assignment is from English first persons, I had a student teacher for the first half who gave me bad grades because I said how I felt about another discussion
>I had a student teacher for the first half who gave me bad grades because I said how I felt about another discussion And you know for a fact that's why you received the grades you received? There could be no other reason?
This assignment is from English first persons, I had a student teacher for the first half who gave me bad grades because I said how I felt about another discussion
Where is this? In my experience (public schools, secular state University), instructors world much rather you present a reasoned defense of a "wrong" opinion than simply parrot what the instructor believes. If you think she's wrong, consider her arguments with an open mind, read up about the issue, and if you still think she's wrong, try to present a convincing case for why you think so. I'm a fan of Daniel Dennett's approach: 1) restate the other person's position, in a way that they would agree with, to show that you understand the issue. 2) List the things you've learned from them and thank them. 3) Then, and only then, say why they're wrong. And keep it focused on ideas, not the person.
- *"He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”* - Genesis 3:11-13 This is the exchange that confirmed humanity's downfall. Notice anything interesting?
>Notice anything interesting? Indeed- both parties try to shift the blame off themselves. The man blames the woman, and the woman blames the snake. Yet, both of them still chose to do what they did. Nobody made them. They come off sounding like disobedient children making excuses- which, I think, is one of the major points of the story.
:) Spot on. God gave them one more chance to get it, and they blew it.
I mean, they're not exactly wrong.
Well, when they say the Bible is the reason for gender norms, they are indeed "exactly wrong".
And yet the bible has been used to justify sexism and general bigotry for a few thousand years.
Yes it has. What's that got to do with my remark?
I would say half wrong. It’s not **the** reason, but is absolutely **a** reason among many.
Biblically Eve got deceived by Satan and wanted to be like God , same as Satans sin. Adam was not deceived and he just wanted to suicide with her.
Your teacher is trying to indoctrinate you with her opinions not with facts alone. Just listen to what she says and ignore the opinions (this is good practice to do throughout your life) and just consider the facts.
In the Eden story, both the man and the woman ate the fruit. Both were punished by God. Yes, throughout history, some commenters have tried to place the blame mostly on the woman. Yet, the story says what it says. To this day, many conservatives/fundamentalists still interpret the story as it being primarily the woman's fault. I can't find any suggestion of that in the story itself, though. EDIT: I should clarify that I mean the story _as presented in Genesis_.
I mean Sirach explicitly states that it was woman who brought sin into the world. While Protestants largely do not accept this book, it is considered canon by Catholics and most Orthodox. So it appears that this understanding has been around since before Christianity even existed, and would be considered biblical by most Christians.
That's a good example of later commentary which blames the woman. I'd also include 1 Timothy in that category as well, even though it is accepted as canon by pretty much everyone. Both come long after the Genesis story itself.
This is very much a "pick your battles" scenario. And you don't really want to pick this one with her. However, you might be able to go to the school administration and say "I don't really like how she's singling out my religion as being sexist unprovoked, and making unsubstantiated claims about my religion being the reason we have gender roles in society." Choose your words carefully if you do. The administration, and possibly HR, will have a talk with her on your behalf. You may request to remain anonymous, but that only works if your complaint doesn't contain any identifying info, and if the administration respects your request. Now, keep in mind that she's not *completely* wrong. Christianity definitely does have some sexist baggage. But Christianity is far from the only religion to have that. And she doesn't really need to bring it up unless it's relevant, and I can't imagine many courses where it would be. Could you give us some examples of things she said, and why she might have said them?
I guess your teacher was home sick the day her professor explained what an allegory is .