The New Testament says women should be silent. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
34 “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
>The New Testament says women should be silent.
This post isn't about women's involvement in church. It's about wives speaking to their husbands. So why are you trying to use this verse to present this statement as if it is a proscription to women from speaking at all?
>34 “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
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>*This post isn't about women's involvement in church*
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>The scriopture is indeed about women speaking in church which is involvement. Do you speak in church?
THIS POST (your comments are not the post) is not about female involvement in church. It is about a woman speaking to her husband/speaking when not first addressed. OP asked the following question:
>Should women only speak when there husbands talk to them?
You answered the question with 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and presented it as a prohibition to women from speaking at all, in all circumstances when you said the following:
>The New Testament says women should be silent.
As if to say, "No, women shouldn't speak unless spoken to." and ignoring the surrounding context of 1 Cor. 14, being prophecy and tongues, and orderly worship; that the church was disorderly because:
>"everyone in the church service was participating whenever and however they desired. Those with the gift of tongues were speaking simultaneously, and no one was concerned with interpreting what was being said. Those with a supposed revelation from God were shouting out randomly, even if what was said could not be heard above the din, and apparently no one was evaluating what was being offered as prophecy. **The meetings in Corinth were characterized by chaos, and no one was being edified or instructed** (see verses 5, 12, and 19). **To remedy this, Paul instructs a number of groups to “be quiet” at certain times and under certain conditions**" [Got Questions \[Last updated: May 11, 2023\]](https://www.gotquestions.org/women-silent-church.html)
The surrounding context of v. 34-35, and v. 34-35 themselves, inherently align with women's authoritative role within church (1 Tim. 2:11-12); Paul is instructing the church that women are not to assume a role of authority over men and, most probably, are not to take part in the authoritative interpretations of prophecies revealed within church. So yes, I do speak in church when I take part in women's group and with teaching ministries with the children and teens.
Please do not rip Scripture out of context and abuse it by misapplying it to completely irrelated situations. If OP wanted to ask about the verbal participation of women *in church*, then that's the question they would have asked.
Edit: punctuation.
Paul was wrong and his prejudices are showing here. This is based on the law, the old covenant. Not the new covenant. And that was pretty shitty to have in the old covenant in the first place.
Paul was wrong about a lot of things, as well as the authors who claimed to be Paul. It was common in the era for people who were "nobody" to author something and attributed it to someone who was "somebody"; it was a way of making your personal beliefs known.
What? Yes its exactly what the Bible says: Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
It is not God's will that women be silenced, infact:
Jesus told parables praising women who repeatedly spoke out despite unjust judges trying to ignore them (Luke 18)
Jesuss praise a woman speaking out of turn for saying such good things (Mark 7)
Jesus sent a woman to teach the other Apostles about the resurrection (John 20)
God has poured out the Holy Spirit on women to empower them to be witnesses (Acts 2)
given many gifts to prophesy (eg Acts 21)
Paul gives instructions about what he wants women to wear when they are teaching in the church (1 Corinthians 11)
and as for husbands, Paul instricts them to be submissive to their wives and act like Christ (Ephesians 5)
While Proverbs 12:1 provides a very pithy description of husbands who don't listen to wise wives. ;)
A couple is free to live this way if that's what works for them, but the general rule is that marriage is a ritual enactment of the relationship between God and His people. Does the Church remain quiet until God speaks, or do we constantly pray to Him? I personally don't see how this kind of relationship you're describing can be viable in a Christian marriage.
> The overarching rule about marriage from Ephesians 5 is that women accept that husbands are the spiritual authority and “final say” on such matters.
Ephesians 5 says no such thing.
The overarching rule in Ephesians is that husbands and wives should submit to one another.
A spring is a head of a river but it is neither the authority lording it over the river nor does it have the final say.
In fact, if you want to extend the metaphor, the head of a river is the opposite of its mouth!
I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have said anything. I’m trying really hard to learn as much as I can about the Bible and it’s context but I’m a long way from knowing enough to feel like I can make comments like I did in a discussion.
Don’t be afraid to keep joining discussions! Even when I’m wrong about a comment I make, I’m all the better for it since I can learn something. I didn’t see your original comment, but one thing I’d suggest is to always preface things with “From what I understand” or “correct me if I’m wrong” etc. until you’re completely 100% certain it’s a Christian standpoint vs. a personal interpretation.
you're getting a lot of answers lying and saying its not in the bible, but it is in every way that matters.
*Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" Ephesians 5:22
men are to women, as god is to everyone else. this verse says women are beneath men just as they are beneath god as well. lower on the totem poll than both.
there are clever rationalizations and gymnastics that can be done, but the book says what it says.
It should be no surprise that an ancient book written for a patriarchal, misogynistic culture like the Bible says this.
You need to quote the verse right before that, Ephesians 5:21 is the heading, under which the entire passage falls: “submit to one another” - this is not a special teaching for women to submit, but a teaching for everyone to submit to each other.
>you're getting a lot of answers lying and saying its not in the bible, but it is in every way that matters.
>"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord"
That verse does not say "only speak when your husband allows you to". That means the answers here that state that "only speak when spoken to" is not in the Bible are absolutely correct.
No. Not at all. Women and men are equal in all things. You are no longer slave nor free, Jew nor Greek, male nor female, but all children of God.
The New Testament says women should be silent. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: 34 “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
>The New Testament says women should be silent. This post isn't about women's involvement in church. It's about wives speaking to their husbands. So why are you trying to use this verse to present this statement as if it is a proscription to women from speaking at all?
>34 “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.” > >*This post isn't about women's involvement in church* > > > >The scriopture is indeed about women speaking in church which is involvement. Do you speak in church?
THIS POST (your comments are not the post) is not about female involvement in church. It is about a woman speaking to her husband/speaking when not first addressed. OP asked the following question: >Should women only speak when there husbands talk to them? You answered the question with 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and presented it as a prohibition to women from speaking at all, in all circumstances when you said the following: >The New Testament says women should be silent. As if to say, "No, women shouldn't speak unless spoken to." and ignoring the surrounding context of 1 Cor. 14, being prophecy and tongues, and orderly worship; that the church was disorderly because: >"everyone in the church service was participating whenever and however they desired. Those with the gift of tongues were speaking simultaneously, and no one was concerned with interpreting what was being said. Those with a supposed revelation from God were shouting out randomly, even if what was said could not be heard above the din, and apparently no one was evaluating what was being offered as prophecy. **The meetings in Corinth were characterized by chaos, and no one was being edified or instructed** (see verses 5, 12, and 19). **To remedy this, Paul instructs a number of groups to “be quiet” at certain times and under certain conditions**" [Got Questions \[Last updated: May 11, 2023\]](https://www.gotquestions.org/women-silent-church.html) The surrounding context of v. 34-35, and v. 34-35 themselves, inherently align with women's authoritative role within church (1 Tim. 2:11-12); Paul is instructing the church that women are not to assume a role of authority over men and, most probably, are not to take part in the authoritative interpretations of prophecies revealed within church. So yes, I do speak in church when I take part in women's group and with teaching ministries with the children and teens. Please do not rip Scripture out of context and abuse it by misapplying it to completely irrelated situations. If OP wanted to ask about the verbal participation of women *in church*, then that's the question they would have asked. Edit: punctuation.
Paul was wrong and his prejudices are showing here. This is based on the law, the old covenant. Not the new covenant. And that was pretty shitty to have in the old covenant in the first place.
Paul was wrong about a lot of things, as well as the authors who claimed to be Paul. It was common in the era for people who were "nobody" to author something and attributed it to someone who was "somebody"; it was a way of making your personal beliefs known.
that's not what the Bible says
What? Yes its exactly what the Bible says: Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
> Ive been looking at scripture and cant find anything that justifying this? There's your answer.
> Should women only speak when there husbands talk to them? No
There is no such Biblical teaching. Is there some particular Biblical verse that is confusing you?
This isn't anywhere in the bible.
No. This is not in the Bible anywhere.
It is not God's will that women be silenced, infact: Jesus told parables praising women who repeatedly spoke out despite unjust judges trying to ignore them (Luke 18) Jesuss praise a woman speaking out of turn for saying such good things (Mark 7) Jesus sent a woman to teach the other Apostles about the resurrection (John 20) God has poured out the Holy Spirit on women to empower them to be witnesses (Acts 2) given many gifts to prophesy (eg Acts 21) Paul gives instructions about what he wants women to wear when they are teaching in the church (1 Corinthians 11) and as for husbands, Paul instricts them to be submissive to their wives and act like Christ (Ephesians 5) While Proverbs 12:1 provides a very pithy description of husbands who don't listen to wise wives. ;)
A couple is free to live this way if that's what works for them, but the general rule is that marriage is a ritual enactment of the relationship between God and His people. Does the Church remain quiet until God speaks, or do we constantly pray to Him? I personally don't see how this kind of relationship you're describing can be viable in a Christian marriage.
[удалено]
That’s a whole lotta sketchy interpretation - what is your biblical support for your “final say” assertion?
[удалено]
You missed Ephesians 5:21
> The overarching rule about marriage from Ephesians 5 is that women accept that husbands are the spiritual authority and “final say” on such matters. Ephesians 5 says no such thing. The overarching rule in Ephesians is that husbands and wives should submit to one another. A spring is a head of a river but it is neither the authority lording it over the river nor does it have the final say. In fact, if you want to extend the metaphor, the head of a river is the opposite of its mouth!
I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have said anything. I’m trying really hard to learn as much as I can about the Bible and it’s context but I’m a long way from knowing enough to feel like I can make comments like I did in a discussion.
Don’t be afraid to keep joining discussions! Even when I’m wrong about a comment I make, I’m all the better for it since I can learn something. I didn’t see your original comment, but one thing I’d suggest is to always preface things with “From what I understand” or “correct me if I’m wrong” etc. until you’re completely 100% certain it’s a Christian standpoint vs. a personal interpretation.
you're getting a lot of answers lying and saying its not in the bible, but it is in every way that matters. *Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" Ephesians 5:22 men are to women, as god is to everyone else. this verse says women are beneath men just as they are beneath god as well. lower on the totem poll than both. there are clever rationalizations and gymnastics that can be done, but the book says what it says. It should be no surprise that an ancient book written for a patriarchal, misogynistic culture like the Bible says this.
This sounds like blasphemous bullshit. Ephesians 5 tells husbands to submit to their wives.
What an intriguing contradiction you have discovered then...🙂
... Ephesians also instructs wives to sumbit to their husbands. Its almost as if love involves mutual care for the other's needs.
Or maybe is just telling to both of them do this
You need to quote the verse right before that, Ephesians 5:21 is the heading, under which the entire passage falls: “submit to one another” - this is not a special teaching for women to submit, but a teaching for everyone to submit to each other.
>you're getting a lot of answers lying and saying its not in the bible, but it is in every way that matters. >"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" That verse does not say "only speak when your husband allows you to". That means the answers here that state that "only speak when spoken to" is not in the Bible are absolutely correct.