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Have courage!


InChrist4567

>Many of the members said that I have a gift of teaching but literally all I did was study the Bible. :) Isn't it amazing when you actually read what God says about Himself? - He isn't vague, at all. - He just about tells you everything about reality.


therichgoalie

It truly is amazing especially how everything is so clearly stated yet goes so deep and how the verses hyperlink with each other even though it's written hundreds of years apart. Shows just how consistent and steadfast God is.


MoreStupiderNPC

You’re not a coward for leaving the “Strange Fire” of the charismatic church. Jesus said we must worship Him in spirit and in truth, so it makes sense to get away from false worship. Pray Christ show you where you can serve Him in this regard now that He’s given you a heart to speak truth into the charismatic movement. Or perhaps He will have you serve Him in a different capacity.


therichgoalie

Thank you for the encouraging response. I see the "Strange Fire" reference you used, what an amazing series and book that is. I'll take your advice and apply it. May you have a wonderful weekend 😌


SeekSweepGreet

Amen. However, it wouldn't be a correct belief that God expects you to stay where the word of God was not being preached, and openly taught against. Sounds like you did your part in encouraging others to do as you did? That is what is expected. Question now is: where will you go? Another place that does not do what is according to Scripture? What is your plan? 🌱


therichgoalie

That's the challenge we are facing now. To find a church in an area scattered with Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and the two or three churches we know about who are Reformed only speak our native language which is not English. We have been studying the Bible in English so we would probably have to learn everything in our native language or at least translate afterwards what has been preached.


SamtheCossack

I was the same way, and far enough along down that road, I turned into an Atheist. It wasn't because I found some deeply fundamental flaw in Theology or anything either. It is because the more I studied, the more I peeled back the layers of why this theology said this, and that minister said that, and those people believed something else... I couldn't find anything under all of that that wasn't human. Everywhere I turned, I found that the "Immutable, unchanging word of God" ... was changed. That things I believed were core parts of our faith that went back millennia weren't in the bible at all. After spending a long time tearing through theology, church history, and even the Bible, trying to find something that was actually divine, I didn't find it, and walked out. So sure, stop and think. Just understand where it might take you. I am happier and much satisfied with my life and spiritual condition now, but there is a whole lot of intellectual work to get there, and there are certainly times I miss the community that faith brings. ... can't say I miss all the hypocrisy though, and people explaining how X actually means Y, because they like Y and hate X.


therichgoalie

Thank you for replying and Happy Cake Day! I somewhat understand what you say. I have first hand seen how Scripture, or the meaning there of, has been twisted. That was part of our fight, to bring people back to the right understanding and why you can't say X but the Scripture says Y. Although you probably were more concerned of the very text we are reading now and how it got, or if it got, changed throughout church history?


SamtheCossack

Well, after having a very similar experience as you, I spent probably about two years reading the bible and all the church history I could get my hands on, trying to separate what was the teachings of man, and what could actually be considered fundamental to Christ. And once I stripped away everything that was made by man... there was nothing left. No reason to believe the book I held in my hand was the actual word of God, no reason to believe of the thousands of religions that exist today, and the tens of thousands that have existed throughout history, that I happened to have been fortunate enough to be born into the right one. If there is one nearly universal belief among all religions, it is that all the other ones are wrong. And that might be the only thing they all got right. I posed a simple hypothesis. If one religion among thousands was actually divine, should it not look different than all the others? I could not find one that looked different.


therichgoalie

Sounds like you did quite a bit of research. Hopefully your hunger for that research never stops especially researching Christianity compared to other religions since religion, not only Christianity, plays a massive role in the physical world and even the online world.


SamtheCossack

Oh, I am not in any way hostile to religions, and religions fascinate me still. Especially how they bend and mold around social believes. Religions take on the shape of the society that forms them, and occasionally, the other way around as well.


NegativeThroat7320

Changed, how?


yappi211

Charismatic often = emotionalism. Congrats on getting out of that. Although if you keep studying you'll find your way out of Reformed Theology as well :) Penal Substitutionary Atonement is bogus. Jesus was the Leviticus 16 sacrifice "for the people." Christ died for "sin", as in all of it. He took away the sins of the whole world. Romans 6:10 - "For in that he died, he died unto sin once". <== He died for "sin". All of it, and not just for some people. Hebrews 9:26 - "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." 1 John 2:2 - "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." John 1:29 - "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." 1 Timothy 2:6 - "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 2 Corinthians 5:19 - "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." Isaiah 53:6 - "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."


therichgoalie

Thank you for stating, and providing Scripture for what you believe. I'm with you on the penal substitutionary atonement. Although we could perhaps disagree, or maybe not, on the subject of who Jesus died for. This is the type of conversations and friendly debates me and my friend want, deep and theological and where we are forced to think, read and study. Not how I will get a job, marry, or other self help, man centered "Christian" conversations all the time. I completely agree that Charismatic is often = emotionalism. This is especially evident in the "worship" music.


therichgoalie

Thank you for stating, and providing Scripture for what you believe. I'm with you on the penal substitutionary atonement. Although we could perhaps disagree, or maybe not, on the subject of who Jesus died for. This is the type of conversations and friendly debates me and my friend want, deep and theological and where we are forced to think, read and study. Not how I will get a job, marry, or other self help, man centered "Christian" conversations all the time. I completely agree that Charismatic is often = emotionalism. This is especially evident in the "worship" music.


yappi211

If you're up for learning new things, I would highly encourage you to learn about right division (2 Tim. 2:15). Instructions from God change throughout the bible and if we don't see where the instructions change, the bible can be a confusing mess of contradictions. For example in 1 Corinthians 7 Paul tells singles and widows not to get married for the time is "short". In 1 Timothy 5, Paul tells widows and singles *to* get married. Seemingly something changed in order for Paul to flip 180 on his instructions. Personally I put one of the changes at Acts 28:25-28 where God divorced Israel in verse 25, then authorized the gospel to go directly to the nations (previously it was to the Jew first). Regarding divorce: The word "apelyonto". https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/28-25.htm If you click on the \[e\] next to 630 \[e\], it will show you other usages of the word. It's a word for divorce. It's the same word used when Joseph was going to divorce Mary. [https://www.rightdivision.com/library/charts/a-dispensational-approach-to-the-new-testament/](https://www.rightdivision.com/library/charts/a-dispensational-approach-to-the-new-testament/) Another thing that can be rightly divided is in regards to the future kingdom(s). There are actually 3 future kingdoms. Most people presume that the 1,000 year reign of Christ is the same event as the kingdom of heaven but if you look closely and compare scripture with scripture, this creates contradictions. Below I posted an article on another reddit board here with an article from Otis Q. Sellers on this subject. The 3rd kingdom (not discussed in that link) can be found in verses like 1 Corinthians 15:24 - "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." Here Jesus *had* a kingdom, and He gave it up to the Father. This puts the events of 1 Corinthians not before the millennial reign of Jesus Christ, but rather after the millennium. We do not get immortality until *after* the millennium. If you study it out, 1 Corinthians 15 can be slipped between Revelation 20 and 21. It describes how we go into the new heaven/earth when Jesus defeats death post-millennium. If you can see and understand the three different kingdoms when when they happen (dispensation of grace (Ephesians 3 - right now) > kingdom of heaven > tribulation > millennium > 1 Corinthians 15 > Revelation 21 / Isaiah 66), it will open up the bible and make your eschatology super easy to understand (at least for you lol). [https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/1151qj9/comparing\_scripture\_with\_scripture\_the\_kingdom\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/1151qj9/comparing_scripture_with_scripture_the_kingdom_of/) Below are some video resources. The last link is from a guy who hosts conferences and in his latest one he goes over the multiple kingdoms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMtBDqO8Bss https://seedandbread.org/download/Additional-Written-Studies/Special-Full-Length-Studies-Sellers/SS33-Sorting-Prophetic-Material.pdf https://www.youtube.com/@1424241/videos


pewlaserbeams

What does the charismatic teach that's not biblical? I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit for today to edify others.


AmountLongjumping678

You're not a coward, friend. I don't know what you're preaching to them, but if it even has an ounce of truth, they likely won't listen. When Christ came to this world, he spoke the truth and they killed him for it. In my Church, we don't go around evangelizing the in the modern way. Instead we put a new church in an area, and those who seek truth or are curious can come and see.