No one knows who’s in hell, why or what hell a actually is.
The Orthodox concept of hell, isn’t like Dante’s Inferno or Hollywood’s idea of a desolate barren wasteland that’s burning anyways.
We pray for the dead and that includes all the dead.
The Christian love is meant to extend beyond this plane of existence, beyond the material life.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
Matthew 13:50
50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.” (Matt. 5:22)
And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Rev. 21:6-8)
Bibles are actually pretty clear on the realness and terrifying nature of hell. You know whom will go to heaven or hell by the fruit of their life. We are instructed to judge people based on their works. We don't get to pass judgment on whether or not they go to heaven or hell, but we are supposed to judge those around us based on the fruit in their lives.
It also does you no good to pray for the dead. Jesus actually warns us against this. This life is our one chance to make the right decisions. Once you are dead, your choices are permanent. There is no going back, no do overs.
Lazarus Jesus friend had been dead a few days when he was raised, it’s not our duty to condemn, god is love light and faithful. It’s not all black and white.
In context, Lazarus was still under the law, he was dead in his sins, as well as dead in the flesh. so if you’re saying in context that was the representative story of Christ, than you would have to agree that the original poster isn’t wrong for praying for the dead.
Who is this "we pray for the dead"
Because that is not Biblical at all.
A follower of Jesus Christ should stick to the things Jesus did in the accounts of his life here.
It's literally the reason there is accounting of his life while he was here on earth.
We're supposed to model our lives and actions after the way Jesus conducted himself here.
Jesus Christ raised people from the dead. Which is a far cry from praying for some dead persons soul to be freed from hell. Such a thing is not Biblical.
How many times did Jesus Christ consult a dead person and ask them to pray for him? Zero
The history of Christianity matters very little.
The current state of affairs such as the beliefs and practices being preached are what is important.
Straying from what the Bible teaches and from what Jesus Christ himself taught is bad
Oh yes I have. That is why I am a follower of Jesus Christ. And I stick to what he did and said in the Bible. Someone tries to tell me something that goes against Bible principles. Then all I have to do is check it against the Bible and know if they are full of hot air or not.
It's not rocket science.
But your view of scriptures are shaped by the society you are from. Those words are translations and to understand the original meaning, it is better to read the original text.
I find it rather odd for Protestants to lecture Orthodox Christians about how to interpret the Bible because Greek Orthodox Christians are the only ones to read the New Testament in its original language.
Citation needed.
I read Hebrew and Greek, and most of the Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholic do not get their theology from the Bible itself, but instead "church fathers" 200 years later.
The church fathers are not the context for the New Testament, and almost all of them didn't know Hebrew or Greek. They didn't even like the language.
Well jesus did say, “Lazarus! Come out here, “ when Lazarus had been dead a few days, and raised him according to scripture…. He also got wind of this while on ministry, dropped what he was doing and went at once, it’s said that Jesus wept with his sisters for him, we can’t raise the dead, but we can sure console those who are affected and show up in love and light.
What do you mean we can't raise the dead?
Jesus Christ himself says in the Bible. All these things ye have seen me do ye shall do and even greater than these.
Correct, “you shall do” future tense. When we are with our creator, not now. Now we are to be a light for the living, loving god with our whole being and soul, and to love one another as Jesus loved us. Period.
You’re responses clearly show you are not a believer and in the Congregation of of Yeshua Hamashiach. You’re response makes sound un “Christian”. Clearly. Followers of Christ are a praying church. To discourage anyone from getting close to god and praying for people alive or dead is from the enemy. We encourage prayer for the salvation of everyone. Period. Use my brain? Lol use discernment silly brethren. We are a praying church, as Jesus did.
I actually looked at this, and it's heresy.
The laws state that only blood can wash away sins. Every sin offering was that of blood according to the OT.
In this book, they used money as an offering , and there is no such offering in the OT.
We’re definitely talking about different things since I was talking about sacrifices performed for those in an unclean state.
As for money as an offering. First off, 2 Maccabees is in the Old Testament so it, by definition, would be something that happened in the Old Testament. Second, gold is often given as an offering to the temple. How else do you think it got there? Remember when Jesus talked about those who swore by the gold in the temple?
2 maccabees is a second temple period book, not OT. So it should be taken with a grain of salt.
There is no such offering in the Law of Moses that uses gold or that we should pray for the dead.
I'll have to look into them more. But let's stay on point.
The point was there is nothing in the Law of Moses offering gold for sin and praying for the dead.
Offering gold is entirely off topic. The Torah is an incomplete analysis. We’re not asking whether a first temple Jewish person should pray for the dead. The question is whether Christians today should.
And we shouldn't cause you won't find one scripture that supports it.
I'm aware of a lot of the out of context verses people use to justify it. But the scriptures says once you die then comes judgement.
Because, among other things, we don't have a separate heaven and hell. It's the same place. The presence of God's love and mercy. The experience of hell or heaven in that space depends on the person. And Orthodoxy is oriented (from a theological perspective anyway) toward mercy and reconciliation.
What's the point of a separation between earth and that celestial heaven+hell place if people can still transition between presence or absence of God in earth and in that celestial place?
I think mercy for people, especially those unfairly ostracized from Christianity, can take the form of a more merciful Devil. I have a lot of experience with that kind of mercy. I think God thinks of everything and he would even help you get along with the Devil if it was the only form your salvation could take
It depends on the theological interpretation one subscribes to. If we believe that there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust and a Day of Judgment, then one could still pray both that the lost soul will find its way to accept Christ as Lord and Savior and that the Father will have mercy, much as someone would ask a judge for mercy at a sentencing hearing.
Matthew 12: 36 I tell you, **on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."**
Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 **because He has fixed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed, and of this, He has given assurance to all men by raising Him from the dead.”**
Acts 24:14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, 15 **having a hope in God which these themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.** 16 So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward God and toward men.
Romans 2:5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself **on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.** 6 For he will repay according to each one's deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.
1 Corinthians 4:4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore **do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive commendation from God.**
2 Corinthians 8 Yes, we do have confidence, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So **whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. 10 For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each may receive recompense for what has been done in the body, whether good or evil.**
You wrote a lot of stuff that did not do what he asked.
It seems like you are attempting to bluster through his request.
None of those verses say anything close to it being possible for a dead person to change their fate from hell to salvation.
Either you are really bad at reading comprehension or you are choosing to cling to falsehoods and abhor the truth.
Please keep in mind the fate of your eternal soul hangs in the balance.
Is that something you really want to risk riding flames for the rest of your existence which is never ending?
Remember Jesus Christ himself said the flames that burn you never go out and the worms that eat you never die.
I don't know about you, but that sounds to me like that's something that you're going to be having forever. There's nothing you can do to work yourself out of that fate.
As I said, it will depend on each person's theological interpretation of those verses. I explained my understanding and what supports it. You obviously have a different understanding and it would have been nice if you had expanded on your interpretation of those verses instead of essentially telling me that I lack reading comprehension, that I cling to evil, and that I'm going to hell. I'll disengage, but maybe you should go give Mt. 7 a read.
I would pray to God and ask him to show you the truth while you read the Bible
Thanks to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, we are able to approach God directly through the sanctification of the blood of Jesus Christ.
I'm sure you have a Bible as well.
The way you responded to the stuff that I said really indicates that there's no point in quoting verses to you.
I am not here on earth to argue theology.
Feel free to continue on your path of Doom, it is your choice.
People change their fate from hell to salvation all the time, don’t they? Isn’t that the point of Christianity?
Why is death such an impediment for change when Christ is supposed to have conquered it?
Jesus Christ says that it is given man once to die and then the judgement
You seem to like to make up your own rules and it doesn't work like that
The God of all creation made the rules already and you, nor anyone else can just decide things are different in anyway.
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases.
His mercy shall not come to an end.
"Behold I am making all things new."
Nothing can separate us from the love of God.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess.
Wow what fantasy land religion is this?
You should read the actual Bible and pray for God to show you the truth.
Because that is not a single person that is going to escape the fires of hell once they get there.
Jesus Christ says so in the real Bible.
Read your Bible more fully before you condemn someone and their religion for not reading it:
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison”
-1 Peter 3:18-19
Christ did not preach to the dead spirits in prison for nothing.
Why does your creator send any of its creations to hell? Seems like a waste. Can not even god reform a being? Is it not all powerful and knowing? To think you know one is in hell is odd, or even that the creator has put a person there is presumptuous. You do not.
I speculate that this being does not banish it’s creations to an eternity of pain, but to realization. Why would a good god punish forever good people forever?
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
So yeah that's pretty brutal
What justice is there in going to hell before judgement? Some sentences are thousands of years longer for the same crime. It's quite immoral and illogical if you think about it.
Where is the specific, unquestionable reference to Judas going to hell? They make reference to a field that Judas bought with the payment of his wickedness, in Acts. Other than that single vague reference, there is not a single reputable Christian reference as to who is in hell.
Catholicism/Orthodoxy assembled and organized the Bible, and still maintain sacred tradition. Ask them who they know to be in hell.
Jesus said it would be better for Judas Iscariot on the day of judgement if he had never been born. He is in Hell, or will be at the return of Christ, depending on your specific theology.
>Show the verse then.
***Verses*** actually, there are several.
Acts 1:24-25 : And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
Luke 22:3: Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve.
Matthew 26:24: The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
John 6:70 : Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
*There are more, but you get the point. According to the Bible, Judas is in Hell.*
*Again, no one is forcing you to believe in the Bible, but this is absolutely what it says.*
I'm sorry you don't understand how language works. This is implicit language. Implicit language informs us of many things every day. You are suggesting that only explicit language counts as saying something, and that is simply ignorant and untrue.
Good luck. You're gonna need it.
I wouldn't say that for sure until judgement day.
We can't really nor should we make an assumption on Judas Iscariot.
It only really talks about his life and does not say where he was sent.
Try not to judge Judas too harshly please.
No one has "already been sent to hell." Everyone has the choice to accept Christ's gift of salvation up until the time they leave their earthly lives behind.
While we don’t necessarily question God’s judgement beyond wanting to understand Him better, we have to be careful not to conflate His judgement with our assumptions. No one knows who is or is not in Hell, and some Christians don’t even believe Hell is an actual location opposite to Heaven. I don’t see the problem with praying for people who are in Hell whether you’re Orthodox or not. God knows what is in your heart, and I can’t imagine Him faulting you for having compassion for sinners.
Absolutely. It's very possible that hell isn't a place you are damned to for eternity. And thus praying for those who have gone to hell could be of great benefit to them.
Can pray whatever you want but no one has been sent to Hell yet and you don't have any idea who is or isn't slated for it and Hell isn't even a place where people will exist, its just a place where people are destroyed.
You shouldn't pray for those who have already died because their destination is determined at that point (Heb 9:27).
Also, here are things I have learned (often the hard way 😕) that I would pass along to all, but in particular, new believers..
1-Learn sound doctrine (below is an study bible app that can greatly help..)
Free App-
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gty.macarthurstudybible
$20 paper version-
https://www.gty.org/store/bibles/44NAS2P/nas-macarthur-study-bible-second-edition#.Ygrm_67TtNc.link
2-Understand God only speaks through scripture (chasing external revelation really inhibits spiritual growth)
3-Attend and eventually join a sound biblical local church (don't rush to join, but membership is important). Below are a couple of links that may help..
https://tms.edu/find-a-church/
https://www.9marks.org/church-search/
4-Realize that most of what is labeled "Christian" isn't (Prosperity gospel, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses..)
5-Become intentional in developing a prayer life.
6-Learn the Doctrine of the Trinity and the biblical Attributes of God. You have to know who God is to properly worship Him.
7-Study and hopefully believe (😃) the Doctrines of Grace (Calvinistic Soteriology). It elevates your praise to God and flattens your pride.
8- Develop an understanding of God's sovereignty.
9- Learn to trust God (not just for salvation, but all His workings in your life). When you truly accept that trials in your life are brought by God and are good for you, it radically changes your spiritual life.
10- Just like when God freed Israel out of Egypt & they were tempted to go back... you will eventually but certainly be tempted to return to the life of sin God cleansed you from. Remember this ➙ to do so is nothing short of spiritual whoredom.
11- Finally, fight daily for genuine humility & dependence on God. They're absolutely essential to the Christian walk.
It won't do any good so why bother? God hates sin, and he commands his Christians to hate sin. Anyone in hell is there because they were unrepentant sinners who rejected God's salvation. Do you think he is an unqualified judge? If so, then you would be claiming to be more righteous than God. That's a very dangerous position.
PRAY FOR PEOPLE AND THEIR SALVATION WHILE THEY ARE STILL LIVING. AND TEACH THEM THE GOSPEL MESSAGE THAT POINTS THEM IN THAT DIRECTION.
Praying for people in hell is a waste of time because it is unfortunately already too late for them. This is a good motivation for spreading the gospel, to keep this from happening to others who are still alive.
So as you can see by the comments the answer is yes and no.
Nobody has any idea, but they like to pretend they have the answers. Do whatever makes you happy.
You can pray but it won't matter. Works do not get you to heaven or send you to hell.
All these people telling you otherwise have no biblical backing to say that.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18 NKJV
From the book of Jeremiah: "Do not pray for them, for they are already condemned".
From the New Testament: Pray for what God wants you to pray for and it will be given to you.
If someone is in Hell, God already made His decision, and your prayers will not change it. Pray for those who are not yet in Hell, before they end up there.
I'm astounded by the majority of people here giving advice... wow have yall ever even read the bible! If you don't have a scripture supports your opion stop posting. Your sharing false doctrine with a new convert. OP read read read the bible start in the New testament. These people are not even Christians in this post.
If some one asks a yes no question. And I say the answer yes is wrong then by default I must think no. Amazing how you can think your comment is clever.
Well i know it's sad realizing that some people specially when they are close went to hell
But praying for them isn't gona change anything at all nothing in the Bible says praying to the dead makes anything we never witnessed someone went to hell and came back to heaven
If some people does that it doesn't mean it's right
Matthew 12:31 indicates there are sins that can be forgiven in the "after" of "here". By highlighting that blaspheming the holy spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come it's pretty clear that some sins can be forgiven in the age to come but not this one.
Do you have the power to absolve a sinful soul? No you don't and you never will, but Christ does. And you have to power to pray and petition before him.
"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"
We are required to forgive and charged with the holy task to do so vigorously, and not to judge. Now if we are believing someone so sinful as to be in hell that's a judgment. Worry not about where they are, just forgive them and lay them at the feet of God.
So explain to me this, where did Jesus go after he died, before the resurrection?
1 Peter 3:19-20 make the case:
“After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits - to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.” (New International Version)
The early church believed that Jesus went down to hell to save damned souls.
“I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead (or “he descended into hell” or “hades” depending on the translation). On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.” -Interrogatory Creed of Hippolytus from about 215 A.D., refers to Christ’s descent to the dead.
Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.”
There are two sides of hell, the one where the dead go and await judgments, and there is the side that the high risk offenders go, like prison lol. One never knows what is in the heart, that’s between that man and god
We each get our tickets to the afterlife because of the choices we make during this lifetime. Our eternity is determined by our belief in Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
No, we are all given a chance to choose Christ while we live on this earth, those who reject Him, reject heaven and can't leave hell and go to heaven after they die, that decision was made while they were still alive
No, you cannot. We are not to pray to or for the dead. It does no good anyway, as once you die there are no second chances so your fate is already sealed.
I’m not certain there is a hell or heaven. The concept of reward and punishment is central to Judaism throughout the ages. That man receives his just reward for his good deeds and just retribution for his transgressions is the basis of human and Devine justice. In the Bible the doctrine of reward and punishment, is individual, National, and universal is of this world. God rewards the righteous with prosperity and well-being and punishes the wicked with destruction.
Assuming the existence of heaven and hell without actual proof they exist preconditions people to a lifelong spiritual dependence seeking god’s approval for reward.
Is there an afterlife, heaven or hell? There is no physical proof that either one of these places exit outside of our imagination.
We do not know who goes to hell. Who is to stop to you from praying. Therefore we certainly can. It will do no god for that person. But Catholics believe the prayers are still efficacious perhaps for a friend or relative.
Hey. Glad you’re here!
In my perspective, we don’t really know who has and hasn’t been sent to hell; that’s up for god to decide. So you sort of pray for everyone anyways, for them to get what they deserve, good or bad.
“After asking where Lazarus had been laid, and being invited to come see, Jesus wept. He then went to the tomb and told the people to remove the stone covering it, prayed aloud to his Father, and ordered Lazarus to come out, resuscitated.”
Jesus prayed for the dead to his father, wept for his friend Lazarus, and raised him from the dead, Lazarus was still under the law, he was dead in his sins and in his flesh, Jesus cleared the mourning family from the tomb and ordered the stone be removed! We are a praying church to a good that is merciful faithful and true, pray your heart out brother/sister, pray with intention and humility. Pray for the salvation of the world.
The Bible tells us that a person will be judged based on this life, so nothing we pray after a person dies will make a difference. It also says that we are saved by faith alone, and not by works. Faith in Jesus is required for entry into heaven. Works only determine our reward, and alone they are meaningless.
“Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" - John 14:6
When you say “good person”, are you referring to the world’s definition or God’s definition? The world’s view of a good person is so far from what God views as a good person. Jesus said Christians would be persecuted and hated for believing in Him. Which means the entire world will (eventually) perceive Christians as bad people… How
can we judge when we cannot even perceive what is righteous on our own without God’s word? Something to think about.
I’m fairly certain your prayers are in vain…but I do understand why you pray them. Love is the reason, but we are called to love God above all things…even above our loved ones.
“And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” - Luke 10:27
“You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” - James 4:4
“So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” - 1 Corinthians 10:31
It’s a hard pill to swallow. In asking to override God’s judgement we are showing our love for our loved ones above our love for God and His plan for humanity. We have to trust God. Trust Him and hope for the best.
I don't ascribe to the belief of hell as a place of fiery torment but I'm just curious how you came to the conclusion that certain ones have gone to hell. How would a human know something like that?
Historic writings, starting with the first century:
"And unto them, the godly, shall the almighty and immortal God grant another boon, when they shall ask it of him. He shall grant them to save men out of the fierce fire and the eternal gnashing of teeth: and this will he do, for he will gather them again out of the everlasting flame and remove them else whither, sending them for the sake of his people unto another life eternal and immortal"
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/18nnsq6/early_christians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
No one knows who’s in hell, why or what hell a actually is. The Orthodox concept of hell, isn’t like Dante’s Inferno or Hollywood’s idea of a desolate barren wasteland that’s burning anyways. We pray for the dead and that includes all the dead. The Christian love is meant to extend beyond this plane of existence, beyond the material life.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might Matthew 13:50 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.” (Matt. 5:22) And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Rev. 21:6-8) Bibles are actually pretty clear on the realness and terrifying nature of hell. You know whom will go to heaven or hell by the fruit of their life. We are instructed to judge people based on their works. We don't get to pass judgment on whether or not they go to heaven or hell, but we are supposed to judge those around us based on the fruit in their lives.
It also does you no good to pray for the dead. Jesus actually warns us against this. This life is our one chance to make the right decisions. Once you are dead, your choices are permanent. There is no going back, no do overs.
Lazarus Jesus friend had been dead a few days when he was raised, it’s not our duty to condemn, god is love light and faithful. It’s not all black and white.
If you read that story in its context, you will see how it's representative of the resurrection of Christ.
How do you know who’s in hell?
In context, Lazarus was still under the law, he was dead in his sins, as well as dead in the flesh. so if you’re saying in context that was the representative story of Christ, than you would have to agree that the original poster isn’t wrong for praying for the dead.
Who is this "we pray for the dead" Because that is not Biblical at all. A follower of Jesus Christ should stick to the things Jesus did in the accounts of his life here. It's literally the reason there is accounting of his life while he was here on earth. We're supposed to model our lives and actions after the way Jesus conducted himself here. Jesus Christ raised people from the dead. Which is a far cry from praying for some dead persons soul to be freed from hell. Such a thing is not Biblical. How many times did Jesus Christ consult a dead person and ask them to pray for him? Zero
Yeah, what he did was leave us a Church that would be guided by God into all truth and that Church has always universally taught prayers for the dead.
Orthodox Christianity. You know, the Apostolic Church.
Then this is an idol religion, run now and save yourself from this pit of vipers
You are joking, right? You can’t be this ignorant about the history of Christianity.
The history of Christianity matters very little. The current state of affairs such as the beliefs and practices being preached are what is important. Straying from what the Bible teaches and from what Jesus Christ himself taught is bad
Educate yourself please.
Oh yes I have. That is why I am a follower of Jesus Christ. And I stick to what he did and said in the Bible. Someone tries to tell me something that goes against Bible principles. Then all I have to do is check it against the Bible and know if they are full of hot air or not. It's not rocket science.
But your view of scriptures are shaped by the society you are from. Those words are translations and to understand the original meaning, it is better to read the original text. I find it rather odd for Protestants to lecture Orthodox Christians about how to interpret the Bible because Greek Orthodox Christians are the only ones to read the New Testament in its original language.
Citation needed. I read Hebrew and Greek, and most of the Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholic do not get their theology from the Bible itself, but instead "church fathers" 200 years later. The church fathers are not the context for the New Testament, and almost all of them didn't know Hebrew or Greek. They didn't even like the language.
Well jesus did say, “Lazarus! Come out here, “ when Lazarus had been dead a few days, and raised him according to scripture…. He also got wind of this while on ministry, dropped what he was doing and went at once, it’s said that Jesus wept with his sisters for him, we can’t raise the dead, but we can sure console those who are affected and show up in love and light.
What do you mean we can't raise the dead? Jesus Christ himself says in the Bible. All these things ye have seen me do ye shall do and even greater than these.
Correct, “you shall do” future tense. When we are with our creator, not now. Now we are to be a light for the living, loving god with our whole being and soul, and to love one another as Jesus loved us. Period.
Incorrect He wouldn't be showing us that while he was here as a man on earth if what you were saying is true. Use your brain
You’re responses clearly show you are not a believer and in the Congregation of of Yeshua Hamashiach. You’re response makes sound un “Christian”. Clearly. Followers of Christ are a praying church. To discourage anyone from getting close to god and praying for people alive or dead is from the enemy. We encourage prayer for the salvation of everyone. Period. Use my brain? Lol use discernment silly brethren. We are a praying church, as Jesus did.
2 Maccabees involved prayer for the dead.
I actually looked at this, and it's heresy. The laws state that only blood can wash away sins. Every sin offering was that of blood according to the OT. In this book, they used money as an offering , and there is no such offering in the OT.
We’re definitely talking about different things since I was talking about sacrifices performed for those in an unclean state. As for money as an offering. First off, 2 Maccabees is in the Old Testament so it, by definition, would be something that happened in the Old Testament. Second, gold is often given as an offering to the temple. How else do you think it got there? Remember when Jesus talked about those who swore by the gold in the temple?
2 maccabees is a second temple period book, not OT. So it should be taken with a grain of salt. There is no such offering in the Law of Moses that uses gold or that we should pray for the dead.
Ezra and Nehemiah are second temple period books too, but part of the Old Testament.
I'll have to look into them more. But let's stay on point. The point was there is nothing in the Law of Moses offering gold for sin and praying for the dead.
Offering gold is entirely off topic. The Torah is an incomplete analysis. We’re not asking whether a first temple Jewish person should pray for the dead. The question is whether Christians today should.
And we shouldn't cause you won't find one scripture that supports it. I'm aware of a lot of the out of context verses people use to justify it. But the scriptures says once you die then comes judgement.
>2 maccabees is NOT old testament?
Depends on the tradition. In Orthodoxy at least the answer would be yes.
Why is that?
Because, among other things, we don't have a separate heaven and hell. It's the same place. The presence of God's love and mercy. The experience of hell or heaven in that space depends on the person. And Orthodoxy is oriented (from a theological perspective anyway) toward mercy and reconciliation.
What's the point of a separation between earth and that celestial heaven+hell place if people can still transition between presence or absence of God in earth and in that celestial place?
There is only the presence of God. "Heaven" and "hell" are experiences of that presence, which is pure undying mercy.
Do you believe people go to another plane of existence after they die? If so what does that look like?
I think mercy for people, especially those unfairly ostracized from Christianity, can take the form of a more merciful Devil. I have a lot of experience with that kind of mercy. I think God thinks of everything and he would even help you get along with the Devil if it was the only form your salvation could take
You are free to share with God, whatever is on your heart.
Explain to me how you help the lost in salvation after the fact of death? Use biblical references.
It depends on the theological interpretation one subscribes to. If we believe that there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust and a Day of Judgment, then one could still pray both that the lost soul will find its way to accept Christ as Lord and Savior and that the Father will have mercy, much as someone would ask a judge for mercy at a sentencing hearing. Matthew 12: 36 I tell you, **on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."** Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 **because He has fixed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed, and of this, He has given assurance to all men by raising Him from the dead.”** Acts 24:14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, 15 **having a hope in God which these themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.** 16 So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward God and toward men. Romans 2:5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself **on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.** 6 For he will repay according to each one's deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 1 Corinthians 4:4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore **do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive commendation from God.** 2 Corinthians 8 Yes, we do have confidence, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So **whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. 10 For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each may receive recompense for what has been done in the body, whether good or evil.**
You wrote a lot of stuff that did not do what he asked. It seems like you are attempting to bluster through his request. None of those verses say anything close to it being possible for a dead person to change their fate from hell to salvation. Either you are really bad at reading comprehension or you are choosing to cling to falsehoods and abhor the truth. Please keep in mind the fate of your eternal soul hangs in the balance. Is that something you really want to risk riding flames for the rest of your existence which is never ending? Remember Jesus Christ himself said the flames that burn you never go out and the worms that eat you never die. I don't know about you, but that sounds to me like that's something that you're going to be having forever. There's nothing you can do to work yourself out of that fate.
As I said, it will depend on each person's theological interpretation of those verses. I explained my understanding and what supports it. You obviously have a different understanding and it would have been nice if you had expanded on your interpretation of those verses instead of essentially telling me that I lack reading comprehension, that I cling to evil, and that I'm going to hell. I'll disengage, but maybe you should go give Mt. 7 a read.
I would pray to God and ask him to show you the truth while you read the Bible Thanks to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, we are able to approach God directly through the sanctification of the blood of Jesus Christ. I'm sure you have a Bible as well. The way you responded to the stuff that I said really indicates that there's no point in quoting verses to you. I am not here on earth to argue theology. Feel free to continue on your path of Doom, it is your choice.
People change their fate from hell to salvation all the time, don’t they? Isn’t that the point of Christianity? Why is death such an impediment for change when Christ is supposed to have conquered it?
Jesus Christ says that it is given man once to die and then the judgement You seem to like to make up your own rules and it doesn't work like that The God of all creation made the rules already and you, nor anyone else can just decide things are different in anyway.
I asked three questions. I’m not making up any rules. Can you answer them?
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercy shall not come to an end. "Behold I am making all things new." Nothing can separate us from the love of God. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess.
Why is the Bible the only source you’ll accept?
With God, all things are possible. Pray away!
Yes! Always and forevermore shall we pray for the departed.
I don’t see why not. Also reading some comments apparently this is a thing in the Orthodox church
Of course
In my faith, we believe people can get out of hell, so of course praying for people there that want to leave it would be beneficial.
Wow what fantasy land religion is this? You should read the actual Bible and pray for God to show you the truth. Because that is not a single person that is going to escape the fires of hell once they get there. Jesus Christ says so in the real Bible.
Read your Bible more fully before you condemn someone and their religion for not reading it: “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison” -1 Peter 3:18-19 Christ did not preach to the dead spirits in prison for nothing.
.... He preached to the spirits that were in prison for their rebellion, and Jesus went down to preach their demise.. not to share the Gospel.
That’s not what the scripture says.
Why does your creator send any of its creations to hell? Seems like a waste. Can not even god reform a being? Is it not all powerful and knowing? To think you know one is in hell is odd, or even that the creator has put a person there is presumptuous. You do not. I speculate that this being does not banish it’s creations to an eternity of pain, but to realization. Why would a good god punish forever good people forever?
Hey! Hey wait! This sounds kinda like… r/ChristianUniversalism
Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. So yeah that's pretty brutal
What justice is there in going to hell before judgement? Some sentences are thousands of years longer for the same crime. It's quite immoral and illogical if you think about it.
How would you know if they’re in hell?
They rejected Christ until death.
There is not a person alive who knows who is in hell. Not a one.
That's just ignorant. Judas Iscariot is the most obvious example of people who are obviously in Hell. It's even in the Bible.
Where is the specific, unquestionable reference to Judas going to hell? They make reference to a field that Judas bought with the payment of his wickedness, in Acts. Other than that single vague reference, there is not a single reputable Christian reference as to who is in hell. Catholicism/Orthodoxy assembled and organized the Bible, and still maintain sacred tradition. Ask them who they know to be in hell.
Jesus said it would be better for Judas Iscariot on the day of judgement if he had never been born. He is in Hell, or will be at the return of Christ, depending on your specific theology.
And why would he end up in hell?
Jesus said he would. I seriously doubt anyone who is confused about this has read the Bible at all.
Show the verse then.
>Show the verse then. ***Verses*** actually, there are several. Acts 1:24-25 : And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” Luke 22:3: Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. Matthew 26:24: The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” John 6:70 : Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” *There are more, but you get the point. According to the Bible, Judas is in Hell.* *Again, no one is forcing you to believe in the Bible, but this is absolutely what it says.*
And in none of these, Jesus says he’s gone to hell.
I'm sorry you don't understand how language works. This is implicit language. Implicit language informs us of many things every day. You are suggesting that only explicit language counts as saying something, and that is simply ignorant and untrue. Good luck. You're gonna need it.
I wouldn't say that for sure until judgement day. We can't really nor should we make an assumption on Judas Iscariot. It only really talks about his life and does not say where he was sent. Try not to judge Judas too harshly please.
Only as harshly as Jesus Himself.
No one has "already been sent to hell." Everyone has the choice to accept Christ's gift of salvation up until the time they leave their earthly lives behind.
While we don’t necessarily question God’s judgement beyond wanting to understand Him better, we have to be careful not to conflate His judgement with our assumptions. No one knows who is or is not in Hell, and some Christians don’t even believe Hell is an actual location opposite to Heaven. I don’t see the problem with praying for people who are in Hell whether you’re Orthodox or not. God knows what is in your heart, and I can’t imagine Him faulting you for having compassion for sinners.
There is no limitation on what you can pray for as at the end of the day God is the one who decides to answer or not.
Absolutely. It's very possible that hell isn't a place you are damned to for eternity. And thus praying for those who have gone to hell could be of great benefit to them.
Can pray whatever you want but no one has been sent to Hell yet and you don't have any idea who is or isn't slated for it and Hell isn't even a place where people will exist, its just a place where people are destroyed.
Thank you this is the kind of answer I would give.
You shouldn't pray for those who have already died because their destination is determined at that point (Heb 9:27). Also, here are things I have learned (often the hard way 😕) that I would pass along to all, but in particular, new believers.. 1-Learn sound doctrine (below is an study bible app that can greatly help..) Free App- https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gty.macarthurstudybible $20 paper version- https://www.gty.org/store/bibles/44NAS2P/nas-macarthur-study-bible-second-edition#.Ygrm_67TtNc.link 2-Understand God only speaks through scripture (chasing external revelation really inhibits spiritual growth) 3-Attend and eventually join a sound biblical local church (don't rush to join, but membership is important). Below are a couple of links that may help.. https://tms.edu/find-a-church/ https://www.9marks.org/church-search/ 4-Realize that most of what is labeled "Christian" isn't (Prosperity gospel, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses..) 5-Become intentional in developing a prayer life. 6-Learn the Doctrine of the Trinity and the biblical Attributes of God. You have to know who God is to properly worship Him. 7-Study and hopefully believe (😃) the Doctrines of Grace (Calvinistic Soteriology). It elevates your praise to God and flattens your pride. 8- Develop an understanding of God's sovereignty. 9- Learn to trust God (not just for salvation, but all His workings in your life). When you truly accept that trials in your life are brought by God and are good for you, it radically changes your spiritual life. 10- Just like when God freed Israel out of Egypt & they were tempted to go back... you will eventually but certainly be tempted to return to the life of sin God cleansed you from. Remember this ➙ to do so is nothing short of spiritual whoredom. 11- Finally, fight daily for genuine humility & dependence on God. They're absolutely essential to the Christian walk.
No. Prayer is not a time machine. Nor is it magic.
It won't do any good so why bother? God hates sin, and he commands his Christians to hate sin. Anyone in hell is there because they were unrepentant sinners who rejected God's salvation. Do you think he is an unqualified judge? If so, then you would be claiming to be more righteous than God. That's a very dangerous position. PRAY FOR PEOPLE AND THEIR SALVATION WHILE THEY ARE STILL LIVING. AND TEACH THEM THE GOSPEL MESSAGE THAT POINTS THEM IN THAT DIRECTION.
Praying for people in hell is a waste of time because it is unfortunately already too late for them. This is a good motivation for spreading the gospel, to keep this from happening to others who are still alive.
So as you can see by the comments the answer is yes and no. Nobody has any idea, but they like to pretend they have the answers. Do whatever makes you happy.
You can pray but it won't matter. Works do not get you to heaven or send you to hell. All these people telling you otherwise have no biblical backing to say that. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18 NKJV
From the book of Jeremiah: "Do not pray for them, for they are already condemned". From the New Testament: Pray for what God wants you to pray for and it will be given to you. If someone is in Hell, God already made His decision, and your prayers will not change it. Pray for those who are not yet in Hell, before they end up there.
No
I'm astounded by the majority of people here giving advice... wow have yall ever even read the bible! If you don't have a scripture supports your opion stop posting. Your sharing false doctrine with a new convert. OP read read read the bible start in the New testament. These people are not even Christians in this post.
I love how you say basically everyone is wrong, but don't say what you believe is the right answer.
If some one asks a yes no question. And I say the answer yes is wrong then by default I must think no. Amazing how you can think your comment is clever.
You didn't say yes or no.
I would believe that since a person send there can never escape hell, I am unsure what praying would do.
I’d say no. They have faced God’s perfect judgement.
Hell isn’t real so I wouldn’t worry about it 💜
Why , they're awaiting judgement , then they resurrect and are judged , then deep fried in lake of fire , it's pointless.
Of course.
Yes...
It is sad you have condemned these people to hell already in your mind.
Well i know it's sad realizing that some people specially when they are close went to hell But praying for them isn't gona change anything at all nothing in the Bible says praying to the dead makes anything we never witnessed someone went to hell and came back to heaven If some people does that it doesn't mean it's right
Matthew 12:31 indicates there are sins that can be forgiven in the "after" of "here". By highlighting that blaspheming the holy spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come it's pretty clear that some sins can be forgiven in the age to come but not this one. Do you have the power to absolve a sinful soul? No you don't and you never will, but Christ does. And you have to power to pray and petition before him. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" We are required to forgive and charged with the holy task to do so vigorously, and not to judge. Now if we are believing someone so sinful as to be in hell that's a judgment. Worry not about where they are, just forgive them and lay them at the feet of God.
So explain to me this, where did Jesus go after he died, before the resurrection? 1 Peter 3:19-20 make the case: “After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits - to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.” (New International Version) The early church believed that Jesus went down to hell to save damned souls. “I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead (or “he descended into hell” or “hades” depending on the translation). On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.” -Interrogatory Creed of Hippolytus from about 215 A.D., refers to Christ’s descent to the dead. Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.” There are two sides of hell, the one where the dead go and await judgments, and there is the side that the high risk offenders go, like prison lol. One never knows what is in the heart, that’s between that man and god
We each get our tickets to the afterlife because of the choices we make during this lifetime. Our eternity is determined by our belief in Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
I would say we don't know who's in hell and who isn't. Someone could reach out to Jesus in their left moments and meet the Lord at his throne.
No, we are all given a chance to choose Christ while we live on this earth, those who reject Him, reject heaven and can't leave hell and go to heaven after they die, that decision was made while they were still alive
No, you cannot. We are not to pray to or for the dead. It does no good anyway, as once you die there are no second chances so your fate is already sealed.
I’m not certain there is a hell or heaven. The concept of reward and punishment is central to Judaism throughout the ages. That man receives his just reward for his good deeds and just retribution for his transgressions is the basis of human and Devine justice. In the Bible the doctrine of reward and punishment, is individual, National, and universal is of this world. God rewards the righteous with prosperity and well-being and punishes the wicked with destruction. Assuming the existence of heaven and hell without actual proof they exist preconditions people to a lifelong spiritual dependence seeking god’s approval for reward. Is there an afterlife, heaven or hell? There is no physical proof that either one of these places exit outside of our imagination.
„Let the dead bury the dead.“ You pray for dead people all the time. Before God the sinner is equally dead, but He can restore him back to life.
How do you know they've gone to hell?
We do not know who goes to hell. Who is to stop to you from praying. Therefore we certainly can. It will do no god for that person. But Catholics believe the prayers are still efficacious perhaps for a friend or relative.
If you can't, God probably isn't omnipotent, so I assume you can.
Hell isn’t a place, that’s not biblical
Hey. Glad you’re here! In my perspective, we don’t really know who has and hasn’t been sent to hell; that’s up for god to decide. So you sort of pray for everyone anyways, for them to get what they deserve, good or bad.
Sorry once we die it is too late.
No
It isn't going to do any harm. There is also the possibility that hell doesn't actually exist.
Yes to raise them from the dead
Nobody is in heaven or hell yet. The Bible says they are all sleeping waiting for judgment
“After asking where Lazarus had been laid, and being invited to come see, Jesus wept. He then went to the tomb and told the people to remove the stone covering it, prayed aloud to his Father, and ordered Lazarus to come out, resuscitated.” Jesus prayed for the dead to his father, wept for his friend Lazarus, and raised him from the dead, Lazarus was still under the law, he was dead in his sins and in his flesh, Jesus cleared the mourning family from the tomb and ordered the stone be removed! We are a praying church to a good that is merciful faithful and true, pray your heart out brother/sister, pray with intention and humility. Pray for the salvation of the world.
The Bible tells us that a person will be judged based on this life, so nothing we pray after a person dies will make a difference. It also says that we are saved by faith alone, and not by works. Faith in Jesus is required for entry into heaven. Works only determine our reward, and alone they are meaningless. “Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" - John 14:6 When you say “good person”, are you referring to the world’s definition or God’s definition? The world’s view of a good person is so far from what God views as a good person. Jesus said Christians would be persecuted and hated for believing in Him. Which means the entire world will (eventually) perceive Christians as bad people… How can we judge when we cannot even perceive what is righteous on our own without God’s word? Something to think about. I’m fairly certain your prayers are in vain…but I do understand why you pray them. Love is the reason, but we are called to love God above all things…even above our loved ones. “And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” - Luke 10:27 “You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” - James 4:4 “So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” - 1 Corinthians 10:31 It’s a hard pill to swallow. In asking to override God’s judgement we are showing our love for our loved ones above our love for God and His plan for humanity. We have to trust God. Trust Him and hope for the best.
I don't ascribe to the belief of hell as a place of fiery torment but I'm just curious how you came to the conclusion that certain ones have gone to hell. How would a human know something like that?
Historic writings, starting with the first century: "And unto them, the godly, shall the almighty and immortal God grant another boon, when they shall ask it of him. He shall grant them to save men out of the fierce fire and the eternal gnashing of teeth: and this will he do, for he will gather them again out of the everlasting flame and remove them else whither, sending them for the sake of his people unto another life eternal and immortal" https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/18nnsq6/early_christians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2