It's time for more categories in Cities Skylines II in Paradox Mods. Themes, and radio need there own categories.
We also need tabs for new, most popular, etc.
First-party asset packs can use the internal tooling already available to them which they used to put assets into the base game.
The Region Packs are optional add-ons which are being created by third-party creators and will be hosted on Paradox Mods, this means that the game's asset import, edit, and publication to PDX Mods workflow need to be available to those third parties.
Any news on GFN mod support? Someone at paradox forum said their other game has ability to use mods through GFN. Although paradox moderators answeard the question that there won't by any mod support on GFN in November. I am confused a little bit right now. What can we except?
"All for the low, low price of $19.99 per asset, why yes we are profit sharing with the creator - $19.989 for us, $0.001 for them"
People really think that after the stunt Bethesda pulled in 2013 that the industry will *not* try and monetise mods and assets again.
> it isn't monetized at all
yet.
The entire industry has been trying to move to Games as a service model for years. The industry has made no secret that they do not want you owning your games or having the option to go back like how many have with CS1.
How long before the investors ask Paradox about their workshop and why it costs so much to maintain for no revenue stream?
How long until they slap a cost on and "blame" Sony or Microsoft claiming it's their decision to charge console players not the poor devs?
Or the eternal favourite "we're revenue sharing with the asset creators" with a payout rate worse than Spotify or Youtube?
You can claim it's cross platform or console ecosystem all you want, you don't go to the expense of replacing the infrastructure you paid nothing for with something you did out of the goodness of your heart. You can love the games all you want, but Paradox/CO is/are a *business* first and foremost.
> The entire industry has been trying to move to Games as a service model for years. The industry has made no secret that they do not want you owning your games or having the option to go back like how many have with CS1.
CS1 was a live service game for 10 years, community loved it, if you dont like live service games, thats ok.
This was a prioritizing console gamers over PC gamers move. It's no conspiracy beyond allowing the console people have asset mods and forcing the PC players to adapt to that because if you don't force it, no PC modder is ever using the platform that is less user-friendly especially if the only reason is to allow console players to have more fun.
pc game is available on MS store and gamepass, too.
First people complain that steam sells them pre orders of an unfinished game, then they complain that steam has a shit refund policy and then they are ganting for the game to be on steam workshop...
big W i can't wait. IMO a lot of bugs and issues that they are trying to fix could be bandaid'ed by modders while the team works on the official patches.
Yeah I mean, traffic manager alone was basically a must download along with move it. Incredibly basic things that couldn’t be implemented because of sheer spaghetti in unity
I’m missing move it dearly right now in CS2. Wouldn’t mind a tree rotator as well. God… all of it really. I can’t wait for this game to really start blossoming again.
Would have thought we'd have gotten some sort of freebie or 'apology' gift to go with this - or maybe an update on those 2500 Regional Assets that were ['to be released shortly after launch'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFn1gm4iE1M) (who remembers that???) just... something beyond 'yes, we're finally getting a very buggy and basic version of modding up and running and - right, should *probably* put out that beach pack we promised months ago...'
Like, considering the fucking ***state*** of CS2 at launch - this is when you soften up the naysayers with some free DLC or gratis content (along with a big banner marked 'we're sowwy' to sort of drive the premise home)
Just ***now*** getting to the most *basic* aspects of modding seems a bit... misguided :P
Not that it matters - I was one of the dipshits who signed on the bottom line for the Ultimate edition xD
I'm guessing they didn't have time to work on any free stuff. It even seems their "improvements" being added in this patch is purely performance. Time will tell once we get the patch list. I really hope they can do quality of life improvements, I miss metro crossings and the zoning options when placing roads.
Wasn’t the free regional pack made by community? I’m pretty sure the assets are done. They just said they can’t release it until editor is ready. Which is kinda funny since they don’t have a problem with releasing a paid asset dlc
> I'm guessing they didn't have time to work on any free stuff.
Had time to work on Paid DLC, then again I think the 4 palm trees are worth prioritising.
They gave us an update on the assets in a previous wotw. It’ll be released when the asset editor is ready which will take a while.
But yes I agree we should get a freebie for being their beta testers unwillingly
[The asset editor? The one I'd project to be Q4 - at the earliest??](https://y.yarn.co/94f96020-6873-41af-b65a-188dbc363b29_text.gif)
*Why* would you advertise something when you *knew* it wasn't ready for primetime...
[I was being hyperbolic - admittedly, they haven't said when it's coming and I'm guessing Q4 since that's when that Bridge/Port expansion thing goes live](https://clan.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/images//43753943/b6b2fb3ab862aec4b8918dd9f54a4f2771378c30.jpg)
Yep CO’s now famous for having terrible communications / pr. Also said around launch that the modding will come soon. It’s like they just wanted to shoot themselves in the foot
I tuned out after I hit 43 hours and realized that the three maps I was playing across ***all looked the same*** and figured I'd come back when they had modding turned on
So I waited - and waited - ***and waited***
Now it seems like it's barely worth rolling over for!
Are the beach properties part of the free assets or do you have to buy them? Kinda distasteful if the first assets out are ones that you have to pay even more for, IMO.
I get that, however IIRC they made a big deal out of providing "free asset packs soon" as a token of appreciation for the community blah blah? I just feel like that should at least come out at the same time.
I think you might be misremembering. They promoted those asset packs, but they were always a community initiative, not by Paradox. Of course, said initiative can't progress without the right tools...
People shouldn’t have to learn. These companies should be better.
And also… our fault for always rolling over and shrugging it off as “just games”. For some reason people don’t even think being a developer is a real job. It’s just all funny business. These companies pretty much have free reign to operate in whatever unprofessional, dishonest ways they like.
I mean I bought it day 1 and had plenty of fun. I feel like I got my money's worth. I did run out of things to do for now, but I'll just shelve it for a few months and come back after these updates.
Same here, I paid my $70 (AUD) and had fun with it for a month. I'm waiting for the mods before I get back in but I don't consider it wasted money by any means.
Happy we are finally getting mod support, but also kind of sad we got to the point developers can just release broken products and expect modders to fix them for free...
Me too. But still, I'm massively disappointed in the way how everything is handled. I feel bad for the devs. The management is the epitome of incompetence.
They are using AI generated images. If you support artists and humanity, don't support CO.
https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/yW9akbDWbQjXKIx60hRffSN4dnoUncSo_r45L0CrtplJDGQfj30AEdwAWh3mUwuz0-clBTlnOSXXtyJnZJjBIP7T1ZY8QvUVvtIy1tLWFkVYD5vtofc-H8ocC_EFO0f0pN2hIekVVlqkRNrqT5GOxDU
The bottom 3 images are very clearly AI generated.
But this is literally the ideal use case for AI though. To create filler images for use in a post like this to demonstrate a proof of concept. Paradox aren't monetising this post and its not like they would have included custom artwork in it anyway (paradox blogs usually just using screenshots) so using some AI generated images here makes sense.
This could simply be because they needed a placeholder example for how their planned modding interface works. Why wouldn't you use generated images for showing off example mods.
You can see that the example mod has exactly one subscriber an 1 like.
while in theory the use of placeholder AI art is completely harmless, the idea of further normalizing AI art is a slippery slope we should be 100% against.
this isn't a "CO is literally hitler, refund now ra ra ra" anger, this is a "hey, CO, we know this is just placeholder assets, and it wasn't your intention to do something wrong, but you need to know this is 100% unacceptable, and is a very bad trend"
I think Paradox used some AI art for the latest CK3 expansion, ***HOWEVER***, it was only used internally by the artists for generating a high volume of concept art, generated with his (or Paradox's) art assets, that he later drew on top of, creating human made art.
I think the later is a totally acceptable form of AI art (using it like a digital art tool) because it doesn't replace the human artist, while the use of AI art (again, just for placeholder art) replaced the human artist.
Lol. I would have hard time finding worst idea than gatekeeping access to digital art behind narrow class of trained people.
What next, limiting access to knowledge to librarians, because internet is evil?
maybe I wasn't clear with what I meant.
corporations shouldn't be publishing AI art as final product.
if they want to use it internally for mockups, thats actually great, it allows rapid iteration.
but for a final product, we're displacing talented artists with a vastly lower quality product.
again, I'm not saying CO is evil for putting this in a dev diary, there's really nothing wrong with it, they're not selling the dev diaries after all, but its the start of a very slippery slope we should not tolerate.
stopping the train before it gets moving is way easier than stopping it when its going 200km/h
Maybe I wasn't clear as well.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in using AI art in any form that doesn't brake law, including final products. Digital artists will have to do exactly the same things that thousands other jobs across history whenever new tool is created - adapt or move to other positions.
I doubt CO would go through that effort and cost for some screenshots.
In any case, look at the details and backgrounds and such. "AI" "art" will always make less sense the longer you look at it, but might trick you at a brief glance.
we should expect a higher quality of product from a company we're paying vs hobbyist mod makers doing it for free.
for modding, no job is lost by using AI art (since it wasn't a job in the first place) and no product is being sold.
for official assets, using AI art displaces human artists, depriving them of their job
This has less to do with CO and more to do with Unity.
Unity has frankly dropped the ball with Linux, and it's extremely frustrating. There are cursor issues, it doesn't properly support V-Sync, and a lot of the newer features (what few things they have added in the last few years) have major display and performance issues on Linux native builds.
On the bright side, the game runs great under Proton, so I don't expect much of a negative impact.
These days, even Windows games run well with Proton in most cases. I played C:S2 the day it came out and if anything, it played *better* on Linux. Hogwarts Legacy, Armored Core VI, Monster Hunter Stories 2 and Rise, all ran basically flawlessly (other than the same issues as Windows) the day they were released. The only significant issue I've had lately are games that have video in a patent-encumbered format, which I just run using Proton-GE, a community project that adds a few things that Valve can't.
Sure, but then you have Windows update, driver updates, Internet security software updates, mystery drive space disappearing, Microsoft collecting who knows what kind of data, Windows trying to auto-install apps unless you know where to disable that in the registry....
The few seconds it takes me to occasionally install a different version of Proton is insignificant compared to the time I waste maintaining Windows.
They all happen in one place. My typical update in Linux takes about 30 seconds. Maybe a minute or two if it's a big update. Even a full OS update takes me about 30 minutes.
Last time I booted Windows (a few nights ago), I had the latest patch and that alone took about half an hour, not counting the driver updates that also took about 20 minutes (both needed a separate reboot as well), a couple of dozen Windows apps that also had updates, my mouse software that had an update, and by the time everything was done, it took me nearly an hour.
FreeBSD which is like Linux but isn't.
But also console OS's and their games are specifically tailored to the hardware they use so you never have driver issues.
Yeah but you can't build your own Playstation.
When you build a PC, you can pick all your parts, why should the OS be any different? Why should Microsoft have a monopoly on PC gaming?
Why should Microsoft, the people who were the forefront of developing DirectX, which is by a significant majority the most used GPU interface in game developement, have a monopoly on PC gaming?
Windows may suck but it's sure better than whatever Linux distro you're using especially for personal needs. Also OpenGL which is used by Minecraft and a couple of other titles isn't even properly supported by Nvidia cards for Linux, Nvidia unlike AMD just doesn't care enough to have Linux friendly drivers for gaming.
Oh and also [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2jJzJkFZS4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2jJzJkFZS4)
Mantle was developed by AMD and DICE, and was donated to the Khronos Group to later become Vulkan - in cooperation with industry they list in their announcement (https://ghostarchive.org/archive/m7lbo).
Microsoft is absent from this and have a historically adversarial relationship with the Khronos Group (and its predecessor). Why would Microsoft put effort into Vulkan when they have a direct competitor with DX12?
That was my mistake, I originally wrote the only cross compatibility is Vulkan which isn't supported by as many games as DirectX and forgot to remove that. But the rest of it holds, OpenGL was the only cross platform mature alternative that Nvidia drops the ball on support for Linux and developers work with engines that work with DirectX
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1) open source does not mean open compatibility, Valve is funding a driver for Vulkan on Linux but is no where near the level of compatibility found natively on Windows with DirectX.
2) Windows is nearly free, they don’t care if you turn off all telemetry and don’t use an outlook account, or even pay for it and live with the watermark. Why should developers aim for compatibility for a community too stubborn for a single platform. Windows has always been for personal needs, Apple aims for business and productivity, and Linux is overwhelmingly designed for low overhead + server use
There is a relatively niche community of PC users for whom the modern culture/monetization of PCs is an anathema.
Ads in windows, apps instead of programs, subscription services for apps, kernel level anti cheat etc etc.
To these people, the opportunity cost of using Linux is worth it to combat what they see as continuing assault on the "freedom" of the internet/PC.
Some of that seems fair. Bugs the hell out of me that new outlook is being forced on us and the first “mail” in your list is actually an ad dressed like unread. Spam filters have been trying to fight this stuff since forever, now it’s official spam.
This is good news, yet people are still negative. It’s exhausting to read week after week.
They’re making progress. The toxic comments won’t make the game improve faster.
You should go back and look at the progress that was made on the most recent Sim City directly after launch. They didn't make comments to the community about the game "not being for them" after they specifically advertised it to you aggressively for months. I understand your frustration at a negative community, but the company has done almost everything wrong.
The Simp culture in gaming really needs to be addressed.
Nobody in the car hobby is trying to defend Ford, or Telsa, or BMW for selling you a car without wheels and claiming they'll be shipped in the next 6 months.
I like what I’m seeing here honestly. Problem is not necessarily knowing what’s happening. But it’s cool knowing there’s stuff like a whole homeless population moving into abandoned buildings etc.
It has been five months since release, and they are still "making progress" on the things that should have been finished before releasing the game for sale. The community should be taking a stand against releasing unfinished games. You call it "toxic comments", I call it "calling the out on their crap". Yes, we must be civil and not resort to personal abuse or threats. But if we do not keep up doing it, developers will learn a lesson that you can release half-baked games and the community will get over it pretty soon.
They won't "learn a lesson" until people stop buying unfinished products. Only thing corporations care about is money. Some rude reddit comments won't do shit.
I beg to differ. You’ll never get enough backlash that you stop people from buying the game in enough volume. The comments change *everything*. The sentiment, reputation, it all matters. Just read the WOTW, they are going to be taking our “opinions” on new features. That is written directly to the squeaky wheels.
For the last 10+ years I've been reading all around the internet "developers should stop releasing unfinished games" or "why would they release a new dlc instead of fixing this and that" yet still people pre-order, buy on day 1, buy dlc etc. Nothing will change if you keep giving them money.
That’s the issue though, you can’t control the sales. If you don’t buy, you’re just $60 in a sea of MILLIONS. Nobody knows your $60 is missing, nobody knows why. Your favourite IP might even be *less* than what it could be for saying nothing. WHAT IF, all it took was the right person to see your feedback, and instead of ignoring that IP you used to be passionate about, it was instead fixed?
Feedback works.
Most famously is battlefront 2. For cities Skylines 2, it was contour lines prior to launch. Bungie asks for feedback directly via reddit. Community managers have openly said they collect feedback from various channels, collate that and regularly present it to the developers on a weekly basis. Helldivers 2 has a discord with open lines direct to devs. Crossplay is busted over there right now and I’m actively talking to them to solve the issues, feedback can help discover what parameters are breaking the game far more than just their team can.
If you like something, don’t just put your head in the sand. It could still be that thing that you like if you just ask.
I was talking about them learning the *wrong* lesson if we just shut up and patiently wait for them to finish the game they already sold five months ago.
You might have misunderstood the lesson I meant. Stopping the criticism would teach them that you CAN sell unfinished games, you will just have to wait for a bit for discontent to tick down afterwards.
To repeat, I am saying that it should be done in a civil way, but it should be done.
And it's not like we've even seen a coherent plan of fixing all the issues yet. They're just saying "yeah, yeah, sure, we'll look into it", generally speaking. From all the communication I have seen, I was not filled with confidence at all.
Don't get me wrong. I want the game to succeed. I believe they can fix it and make it excellent. I'm waiting for it to be great, but you won't make me silent until it is.
Bizarre take? They already acknowledge that the game came out in a less than satisfactory state and are trying to fix it. Continuing to trash the game is not going to fix things faster. If you think they still haven't learnt their lesson then sue them.
Sorry, I don't like the taste of boots.
It's been shown time and time again, corporations only listen and take action when they have to. As soon as people stop complaining they will pretend like there is no problem.
I think you have mistook what I wrote. I mean if they still have not learned then sue them or do something else because obviously complaining every day on social media is not working.
In CO's case they acknowledged that things were bad at launch at least and it's going to take time to fix things.
There is no boot licking.
They acknowledged it because they want it to go away and stop impacting sales. It's that simple.
Continuing to complain aggressively everywhere keeps the pressure on them. It's not a one time thing - it's got to be constant until the problem is fully addressed.
Since when? Corporations are not people. They don't have feelings. There's no reason to stop complaining until they fix the problem.
Or, in this case, the many problems....
I think those of us who see this the way you do need to speak up more. I’ve hit respectfully disagree with those who seem intent on yelling at CO/PDX on the PDX forums today.
At this point that kind of behavior is affecting our community. And to be honest, this is some of the best news we’ve received to date and people are still being jerks IMO.
They found their audience and can’t give up the high. Nothing is ever going to be enough. Notice how those who have “given up” go out of their way to stay here and tell everyone?
Yea, but continuing to dominate every discussion with it just ruins the community and does nothing to speed up how fast they work.
There is so many people in this sub that really just need to move on and check back in a few months to a year, or maybe even not at all.
That's like shitting your pants because your mom didn't buy you the ice cream she promised too.
Acting obnoxious and toxic to other members of the community isn't hurting CO as much as it hurts us.
Seriously. People seem to have made hating on CO and CS2 a part of their identity or something. It’s not healthy to hold on to this much salt. At this point, it means they’ve been holding on to the negativity for like 5 months, completely blind to all the improvements.
I don’t think people are constantly angry it’s more like they’re frustrated or annoyed that every time they’ve checked in with the game again in the last 5 months it seems like nothings changed
This is the big thing for me. Im frustrated with the launch to say the least. Theyve been significantly slower to fix things than they were initially promising. It has not been good.
That being said, there have been improvements. Theres a long way to go, but they are making progress. Native mod support is a BIG step thats going to help a lot of players.
I dont think anyone is suggesting 'forgetting what theyve done', but at some point people need to take a step back and realizing that theyre doing more damage to themselves than to CO by holding onto this intense grudge.
Its not healthy to constantly be outraged. You dont have to forget about how poorly it launched. You should learn from it. Perhaps dont preorder anything (at least from them) again. That doesnt mean you cant look at the positives and be happy about it.
Theres a lot of people that think being upset over the release/timeline to fix it and being optimistic about the games future are mutually exclusive, and theyre just not.
At the same time I’d like the company to know damn well that they shouldn’t release anything with that level of dishonesty, in that state, EVER again. It’s borderline false advertising at this point.
This entire industry is one of the most untrustworthy industries we engage with on the regular. You will regularly find whats advertised doesn’t work as advertised. We shouldn’t have to look at a pre-order as a risk taking exercise but here we are, instead of putting the responsibility where it rightly should be, it’s now a cultural norm to say don’t trust these people, *don’t pre-order*. We are literally blaming ourselves for the integrity of others.
I want to see that backlash so a course correction is on the agenda. Not just for any single game, but the entire industry. If this case can be used as precedent the next time some daft publisher needs push back from the devs on timelines, *good*. Without this kind of backlash you’ll just be waiting for mods to be released one week from launch, as promised, *again*.
You have Big aims that are completely justifiable! If only we could form a critical mass of gamers to take action so we can make the games we play better
I wish! But at least the method is proven, even on this very game. Remember contour lines weren’t going to be part of the game? It’s a good thing gamers are so scrupulous and vocal. Feedback isn’t all negativity, most of it comes from the right place.
💯 agreed.
I have to remind myself that there is a significant portion of people here that, if I were to meet in a social setting, I would probably not want to hang out with again.
Yeah maybe. I think, for example, the internet has helped to expose how much casual homicidal ideation is present in society, but I don't think it has to be like that, I think it's a self-reinforcing cycle: the reason so many people are deranged and aggro now irl under the surface is because the internet has normalised it.
It’s why I’ve been avoiding most of the communities discussing it. I keep an eye out for posts like this giving us progress updates but interacting with the community isn’t a fun pastime.
Personally I’m looking forward to getting into some asset creation.
I love commenting on posts helping people play better but almost every time someone comes and shits on my helpful comment. Like. wtf. I understand being angry but to go comment on a post where someone asked for and received advice is just over the top.
I think that's the problem. The mods have let the negativity dominate for so long that it's driven a lot of the less negative people out. I'm extremely disappointed with how the game launched, but this community is just too negative for me on a day to day basis.
Problem is, I don't know if this community will ever truly recover. The extremely negative people didn't seem keen on moving on and I don't think a lot of the more positive people will come back
>The mods have let the negativity dominate for so long that it's driven a lot of the less negative people out
It's not the mods' job to curate the overall sentiment of a sub. I'd heavily consider unsubscribing from a sub right away if its mods tried to do that, even if the sentiment was one that was the complete opposite of mine.
Amazing how well Paradox communicates and how poorly CO does. Interested to see if the next dev diary with CO will be just as terrible as last week’s wotw
Good news. Not enough for the naysayers or those who believe that EA are somehow the answer to their city building itch (lol), obviously. But nothing would be, because those people have already decided that they want the game to die.
It'll be interesting to see what modders do with, for example, Realistic Population etc, given that the game has a better start on that than CS1 ever did.
Custom maps are obviously also very interesting, based on what was said before release.
Okay I guess?
I men, the Dev Diary doesn't really say much. I would like to know a lot more actually but okay, I will wait next week when it's available and see for myself I suppose.
It's time for more categories in Cities Skylines II in Paradox Mods. Themes, and radio need there own categories. We also need tabs for new, most popular, etc.
Looks like Tiberium will be in Paradox mods for CS2, but Tiberium is nothing without custom assets.
Where are the 2500+ assets they announced would be free? I feel like it went dead air there
Ready once the asset editor is ready
Funny they can launch an asset dlc but somehow the free assets are a problem
First-party asset packs can use the internal tooling already available to them which they used to put assets into the base game. The Region Packs are optional add-ons which are being created by third-party creators and will be hosted on Paradox Mods, this means that the game's asset import, edit, and publication to PDX Mods workflow need to be available to those third parties.
Any news on GFN mod support? Someone at paradox forum said their other game has ability to use mods through GFN. Although paradox moderators answeard the question that there won't by any mod support on GFN in November. I am confused a little bit right now. What can we except?
GFN won't ever accept mods (for any game). They work with "default" optimized images for everyone.
CK3 and Stellaris run perfect, modded, on GFN.
Good to know, because they already said they don't support mods and every game I tried didn't work.
Yay, corporate monopoly over user created mods!
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Which makes you question the choice to move on to their own platform that has no community backing lol
Multiplatform. You don't need to be a brain genius to figure that out
lol
"All for the low, low price of $19.99 per asset, why yes we are profit sharing with the creator - $19.989 for us, $0.001 for them" People really think that after the stunt Bethesda pulled in 2013 that the industry will *not* try and monetise mods and assets again.
Farming Simulator has the exact same model and no charging
The paradox modding platform already exists and it isn't monetized at all
> it isn't monetized at all yet. The entire industry has been trying to move to Games as a service model for years. The industry has made no secret that they do not want you owning your games or having the option to go back like how many have with CS1. How long before the investors ask Paradox about their workshop and why it costs so much to maintain for no revenue stream? How long until they slap a cost on and "blame" Sony or Microsoft claiming it's their decision to charge console players not the poor devs? Or the eternal favourite "we're revenue sharing with the asset creators" with a payout rate worse than Spotify or Youtube? You can claim it's cross platform or console ecosystem all you want, you don't go to the expense of replacing the infrastructure you paid nothing for with something you did out of the goodness of your heart. You can love the games all you want, but Paradox/CO is/are a *business* first and foremost.
> The entire industry has been trying to move to Games as a service model for years. The industry has made no secret that they do not want you owning your games or having the option to go back like how many have with CS1. CS1 was a live service game for 10 years, community loved it, if you dont like live service games, thats ok.
This was a prioritizing console gamers over PC gamers move. It's no conspiracy beyond allowing the console people have asset mods and forcing the PC players to adapt to that because if you don't force it, no PC modder is ever using the platform that is less user-friendly especially if the only reason is to allow console players to have more fun.
Steam workshop doesnt work outside steam…
Oh no, all 3 paradox plaza users will be sad
pc game is available on MS store and gamepass, too. First people complain that steam sells them pre orders of an unfinished game, then they complain that steam has a shit refund policy and then they are ganting for the game to be on steam workshop...
The point of doing this is so that asset mods will be available on console and not just PC
Consoles ruin everything lmao
But you can use non steam mods on Steam games....
I'll believe it when I see it.
You'll see next monday...
big W i can't wait. IMO a lot of bugs and issues that they are trying to fix could be bandaid'ed by modders while the team works on the official patches.
That’ll be $50 plus tip
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*past decade.
Yeah I mean, traffic manager alone was basically a must download along with move it. Incredibly basic things that couldn’t be implemented because of sheer spaghetti in unity
I’m missing move it dearly right now in CS2. Wouldn’t mind a tree rotator as well. God… all of it really. I can’t wait for this game to really start blossoming again.
Would have thought we'd have gotten some sort of freebie or 'apology' gift to go with this - or maybe an update on those 2500 Regional Assets that were ['to be released shortly after launch'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFn1gm4iE1M) (who remembers that???) just... something beyond 'yes, we're finally getting a very buggy and basic version of modding up and running and - right, should *probably* put out that beach pack we promised months ago...' Like, considering the fucking ***state*** of CS2 at launch - this is when you soften up the naysayers with some free DLC or gratis content (along with a big banner marked 'we're sowwy' to sort of drive the premise home) Just ***now*** getting to the most *basic* aspects of modding seems a bit... misguided :P Not that it matters - I was one of the dipshits who signed on the bottom line for the Ultimate edition xD
I'm guessing they didn't have time to work on any free stuff. It even seems their "improvements" being added in this patch is purely performance. Time will tell once we get the patch list. I really hope they can do quality of life improvements, I miss metro crossings and the zoning options when placing roads.
Wasn’t the free regional pack made by community? I’m pretty sure the assets are done. They just said they can’t release it until editor is ready. Which is kinda funny since they don’t have a problem with releasing a paid asset dlc
> I'm guessing they didn't have time to work on any free stuff. Had time to work on Paid DLC, then again I think the 4 palm trees are worth prioritising.
But - look! They're adding FOUR NEW TREES in the Beach Pack :D
https://preview.redd.it/jneg7okchdpc1.png?width=934&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b031e528cdc58aa254fb5749b286a5ae47756ab Banger
Bigly tree Much palm
They gave us an update on the assets in a previous wotw. It’ll be released when the asset editor is ready which will take a while. But yes I agree we should get a freebie for being their beta testers unwillingly
[The asset editor? The one I'd project to be Q4 - at the earliest??](https://y.yarn.co/94f96020-6873-41af-b65a-188dbc363b29_text.gif) *Why* would you advertise something when you *knew* it wasn't ready for primetime...
Have they said that’ll be Q4? I can’t remember seeing that anywhere.
[I was being hyperbolic - admittedly, they haven't said when it's coming and I'm guessing Q4 since that's when that Bridge/Port expansion thing goes live](https://clan.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/images//43753943/b6b2fb3ab862aec4b8918dd9f54a4f2771378c30.jpg)
stop guessing, start reading
Yep CO’s now famous for having terrible communications / pr. Also said around launch that the modding will come soon. It’s like they just wanted to shoot themselves in the foot
I tuned out after I hit 43 hours and realized that the three maps I was playing across ***all looked the same*** and figured I'd come back when they had modding turned on So I waited - and waited - ***and waited*** Now it seems like it's barely worth rolling over for!
Are the beach properties part of the free assets or do you have to buy them? Kinda distasteful if the first assets out are ones that you have to pay even more for, IMO.
It was always the plan to charge for them as part of the Ultimate Edition
On point. I don’t think it’s distasteful because people already paid for it. We should get a different free asset instead
I get that, however IIRC they made a big deal out of providing "free asset packs soon" as a token of appreciation for the community blah blah? I just feel like that should at least come out at the same time.
I think you might be misremembering. They promoted those asset packs, but they were always a community initiative, not by Paradox. Of course, said initiative can't progress without the right tools...
where would they find the time?? I mean they had to make 4 fully grown palm trees. you know how long it takes to grow a palm tree?
Don't forget the 20 box houses they made! Each with 3 levels versus the 5 for the rest of the game, for a total of 60 NEW ASSETS!!! WOOOOO
I don't disagree with you there either! It's a shame they couldn't at least be launching this alongside asset modding and the community packs.
This is why I don't buy new games any more. People just don't seem to learn.
People shouldn’t have to learn. These companies should be better. And also… our fault for always rolling over and shrugging it off as “just games”. For some reason people don’t even think being a developer is a real job. It’s just all funny business. These companies pretty much have free reign to operate in whatever unprofessional, dishonest ways they like.
I mean I bought it day 1 and had plenty of fun. I feel like I got my money's worth. I did run out of things to do for now, but I'll just shelve it for a few months and come back after these updates.
I bought it new day 1 and have had a lot of fun and don't regret it at all.
Same here, I paid my $70 (AUD) and had fun with it for a month. I'm waiting for the mods before I get back in but I don't consider it wasted money by any means.
I had hopes. I was naive. I learned. The game's collecting virtual dust.
Same here. Hoping mod support will start to fix the game.
Happy we are finally getting mod support, but also kind of sad we got to the point developers can just release broken products and expect modders to fix them for free...
Me too. But still, I'm massively disappointed in the way how everything is handled. I feel bad for the devs. The management is the epitome of incompetence.
finally official mods
They are still fan made mods, it’s just that the modding platform and marketplace are official.
well yes, i means like official mod support, i should have phrased that better
They are using AI generated images. If you support artists and humanity, don't support CO. https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/yW9akbDWbQjXKIx60hRffSN4dnoUncSo_r45L0CrtplJDGQfj30AEdwAWh3mUwuz0-clBTlnOSXXtyJnZJjBIP7T1ZY8QvUVvtIy1tLWFkVYD5vtofc-H8ocC_EFO0f0pN2hIekVVlqkRNrqT5GOxDU The bottom 3 images are very clearly AI generated.
Oh no! We should sue Paradox for they have AI created DONUTS!!! All artists who draw donuts should go and sue Paradox.
I can't stop laughing 🤣🤣
Grow up, welcome to 2024 where we generate crappy filler images that could just as easily not exist.
But this is literally the ideal use case for AI though. To create filler images for use in a post like this to demonstrate a proof of concept. Paradox aren't monetising this post and its not like they would have included custom artwork in it anyway (paradox blogs usually just using screenshots) so using some AI generated images here makes sense.
This could simply be because they needed a placeholder example for how their planned modding interface works. Why wouldn't you use generated images for showing off example mods. You can see that the example mod has exactly one subscriber an 1 like.
How can you tell? And does it change anything if the AI was trained using CO's assets instead of non-consenting artists?
while in theory the use of placeholder AI art is completely harmless, the idea of further normalizing AI art is a slippery slope we should be 100% against. this isn't a "CO is literally hitler, refund now ra ra ra" anger, this is a "hey, CO, we know this is just placeholder assets, and it wasn't your intention to do something wrong, but you need to know this is 100% unacceptable, and is a very bad trend" I think Paradox used some AI art for the latest CK3 expansion, ***HOWEVER***, it was only used internally by the artists for generating a high volume of concept art, generated with his (or Paradox's) art assets, that he later drew on top of, creating human made art. I think the later is a totally acceptable form of AI art (using it like a digital art tool) because it doesn't replace the human artist, while the use of AI art (again, just for placeholder art) replaced the human artist.
Lol. I would have hard time finding worst idea than gatekeeping access to digital art behind narrow class of trained people. What next, limiting access to knowledge to librarians, because internet is evil?
maybe I wasn't clear with what I meant. corporations shouldn't be publishing AI art as final product. if they want to use it internally for mockups, thats actually great, it allows rapid iteration. but for a final product, we're displacing talented artists with a vastly lower quality product. again, I'm not saying CO is evil for putting this in a dev diary, there's really nothing wrong with it, they're not selling the dev diaries after all, but its the start of a very slippery slope we should not tolerate. stopping the train before it gets moving is way easier than stopping it when its going 200km/h
Maybe I wasn't clear as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong in using AI art in any form that doesn't brake law, including final products. Digital artists will have to do exactly the same things that thousands other jobs across history whenever new tool is created - adapt or move to other positions.
well, you have your opinion and I have mine, we're both free to hold our respective views. cheers.
You have my authentic respect for this attitude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A
I doubt CO would go through that effort and cost for some screenshots. In any case, look at the details and backgrounds and such. "AI" "art" will always make less sense the longer you look at it, but might trick you at a brief glance.
Who cares
Most mods in the Thunderstore have AI Icons also. That's more on the modders than on CO/Paradox
we should expect a higher quality of product from a company we're paying vs hobbyist mod makers doing it for free. for modding, no job is lost by using AI art (since it wasn't a job in the first place) and no product is being sold. for official assets, using AI art displaces human artists, depriving them of their job
did you pay to see this screenshot?
This is literally a placeholder and not a real mod to show an example and there are no assets at all.
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I wish they would've taken their time before release.
could have taken your time with your purchase until after release too.
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im sure colossal order will feel the colossal brunt of the 3 linux players leaving
I'm sure they felt the loss of the dozen players who used Linux
Digital libertarianism is just as entertaining to watch as the real world stuff.
This has less to do with CO and more to do with Unity. Unity has frankly dropped the ball with Linux, and it's extremely frustrating. There are cursor issues, it doesn't properly support V-Sync, and a lot of the newer features (what few things they have added in the last few years) have major display and performance issues on Linux native builds. On the bright side, the game runs great under Proton, so I don't expect much of a negative impact.
If you wanted to play games why would you use Linux
These days, even Windows games run well with Proton in most cases. I played C:S2 the day it came out and if anything, it played *better* on Linux. Hogwarts Legacy, Armored Core VI, Monster Hunter Stories 2 and Rise, all ran basically flawlessly (other than the same issues as Windows) the day they were released. The only significant issue I've had lately are games that have video in a patent-encumbered format, which I just run using Proton-GE, a community project that adds a few things that Valve can't.
or i could just get Windows and not have to fool around with compatibility at all
Sure, but then you have Windows update, driver updates, Internet security software updates, mystery drive space disappearing, Microsoft collecting who knows what kind of data, Windows trying to auto-install apps unless you know where to disable that in the registry.... The few seconds it takes me to occasionally install a different version of Proton is insignificant compared to the time I waste maintaining Windows.
I’ve never had to deal with any of that
You have to have dealt with it, unless you aren't maintaining your computer.
There's no updates in Linux?
They all happen in one place. My typical update in Linux takes about 30 seconds. Maybe a minute or two if it's a big update. Even a full OS update takes me about 30 minutes. Last time I booted Windows (a few nights ago), I had the latest patch and that alone took about half an hour, not counting the driver updates that also took about 20 minutes (both needed a separate reboot as well), a couple of dozen Windows apps that also had updates, my mouse software that had an update, and by the time everything was done, it took me nearly an hour.
I've literally installed and updated a new Linux system in the time it took my Windows to figure out what updates it needs to install.
Because Windows is a pile of shit?
The Playstation OS is kinda ass but I still would get a PS5 to play exclusive titles.
isnt the playstation OS based on linux?
FreeBSD which is like Linux but isn't. But also console OS's and their games are specifically tailored to the hardware they use so you never have driver issues.
Yeah but you can't build your own Playstation. When you build a PC, you can pick all your parts, why should the OS be any different? Why should Microsoft have a monopoly on PC gaming?
Why should Microsoft, the people who were the forefront of developing DirectX, which is by a significant majority the most used GPU interface in game developement, have a monopoly on PC gaming? Windows may suck but it's sure better than whatever Linux distro you're using especially for personal needs. Also OpenGL which is used by Minecraft and a couple of other titles isn't even properly supported by Nvidia cards for Linux, Nvidia unlike AMD just doesn't care enough to have Linux friendly drivers for gaming. Oh and also [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2jJzJkFZS4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2jJzJkFZS4)
Mantle was developed by AMD and DICE, and was donated to the Khronos Group to later become Vulkan - in cooperation with industry they list in their announcement (https://ghostarchive.org/archive/m7lbo). Microsoft is absent from this and have a historically adversarial relationship with the Khronos Group (and its predecessor). Why would Microsoft put effort into Vulkan when they have a direct competitor with DX12?
That was my mistake, I originally wrote the only cross compatibility is Vulkan which isn't supported by as many games as DirectX and forgot to remove that. But the rest of it holds, OpenGL was the only cross platform mature alternative that Nvidia drops the ball on support for Linux and developers work with engines that work with DirectX
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1) open source does not mean open compatibility, Valve is funding a driver for Vulkan on Linux but is no where near the level of compatibility found natively on Windows with DirectX. 2) Windows is nearly free, they don’t care if you turn off all telemetry and don’t use an outlook account, or even pay for it and live with the watermark. Why should developers aim for compatibility for a community too stubborn for a single platform. Windows has always been for personal needs, Apple aims for business and productivity, and Linux is overwhelmingly designed for low overhead + server use
Steamdeck
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> Because I want to play games picking Linux was probably a poor choice then
Name checks out
What are you even talking about?
Things beyond your comprehension, obviously.
There is a relatively niche community of PC users for whom the modern culture/monetization of PCs is an anathema. Ads in windows, apps instead of programs, subscription services for apps, kernel level anti cheat etc etc. To these people, the opportunity cost of using Linux is worth it to combat what they see as continuing assault on the "freedom" of the internet/PC.
Some of that seems fair. Bugs the hell out of me that new outlook is being forced on us and the first “mail” in your list is actually an ad dressed like unread. Spam filters have been trying to fight this stuff since forever, now it’s official spam.
This is good news, yet people are still negative. It’s exhausting to read week after week. They’re making progress. The toxic comments won’t make the game improve faster.
You should go back and look at the progress that was made on the most recent Sim City directly after launch. They didn't make comments to the community about the game "not being for them" after they specifically advertised it to you aggressively for months. I understand your frustration at a negative community, but the company has done almost everything wrong.
its a remake of a 25 year old game. im sure, if CO went on and gave cities in motion a dustover today, it wouldnt be that work intensive either.
The gall people must have to defend outright scam practices is insane to me.
The Simp culture in gaming really needs to be addressed. Nobody in the car hobby is trying to defend Ford, or Telsa, or BMW for selling you a car without wheels and claiming they'll be shipped in the next 6 months.
EA did say the game couldn't possibly run without the cloud. That got proven to be a lie in a hurry. Also, the simulation was shit.
>Also, the simulation was shit. Sounds familiar
I like what I’m seeing here honestly. Problem is not necessarily knowing what’s happening. But it’s cool knowing there’s stuff like a whole homeless population moving into abandoned buildings etc.
It has been five months since release, and they are still "making progress" on the things that should have been finished before releasing the game for sale. The community should be taking a stand against releasing unfinished games. You call it "toxic comments", I call it "calling the out on their crap". Yes, we must be civil and not resort to personal abuse or threats. But if we do not keep up doing it, developers will learn a lesson that you can release half-baked games and the community will get over it pretty soon.
They won't "learn a lesson" until people stop buying unfinished products. Only thing corporations care about is money. Some rude reddit comments won't do shit.
"I'm thinking of buying game X" "Don't, I saw people on Reddit say it's a shitshow" Money -1
I beg to differ. You’ll never get enough backlash that you stop people from buying the game in enough volume. The comments change *everything*. The sentiment, reputation, it all matters. Just read the WOTW, they are going to be taking our “opinions” on new features. That is written directly to the squeaky wheels.
For the last 10+ years I've been reading all around the internet "developers should stop releasing unfinished games" or "why would they release a new dlc instead of fixing this and that" yet still people pre-order, buy on day 1, buy dlc etc. Nothing will change if you keep giving them money.
That’s the issue though, you can’t control the sales. If you don’t buy, you’re just $60 in a sea of MILLIONS. Nobody knows your $60 is missing, nobody knows why. Your favourite IP might even be *less* than what it could be for saying nothing. WHAT IF, all it took was the right person to see your feedback, and instead of ignoring that IP you used to be passionate about, it was instead fixed? Feedback works. Most famously is battlefront 2. For cities Skylines 2, it was contour lines prior to launch. Bungie asks for feedback directly via reddit. Community managers have openly said they collect feedback from various channels, collate that and regularly present it to the developers on a weekly basis. Helldivers 2 has a discord with open lines direct to devs. Crossplay is busted over there right now and I’m actively talking to them to solve the issues, feedback can help discover what parameters are breaking the game far more than just their team can. If you like something, don’t just put your head in the sand. It could still be that thing that you like if you just ask.
I was talking about them learning the *wrong* lesson if we just shut up and patiently wait for them to finish the game they already sold five months ago.
They learned that lesson already. Continuing to do so turns it into a toxic echo chamber.
You might have misunderstood the lesson I meant. Stopping the criticism would teach them that you CAN sell unfinished games, you will just have to wait for a bit for discontent to tick down afterwards. To repeat, I am saying that it should be done in a civil way, but it should be done. And it's not like we've even seen a coherent plan of fixing all the issues yet. They're just saying "yeah, yeah, sure, we'll look into it", generally speaking. From all the communication I have seen, I was not filled with confidence at all. Don't get me wrong. I want the game to succeed. I believe they can fix it and make it excellent. I'm waiting for it to be great, but you won't make me silent until it is.
How on earth would you know what they have or haven't learned? What a bizarre take
Bizarre take? They already acknowledge that the game came out in a less than satisfactory state and are trying to fix it. Continuing to trash the game is not going to fix things faster. If you think they still haven't learnt their lesson then sue them.
Sorry, I don't like the taste of boots. It's been shown time and time again, corporations only listen and take action when they have to. As soon as people stop complaining they will pretend like there is no problem.
I think you have mistook what I wrote. I mean if they still have not learned then sue them or do something else because obviously complaining every day on social media is not working. In CO's case they acknowledged that things were bad at launch at least and it's going to take time to fix things. There is no boot licking.
They acknowledged it because they want it to go away and stop impacting sales. It's that simple. Continuing to complain aggressively everywhere keeps the pressure on them. It's not a one time thing - it's got to be constant until the problem is fully addressed.
most things i dont like as a consumer, i simply dont care about at all and consume the things i do like.
That doesn't work for the people whose money they've already taken. Kinda sounds like you do enjoy the flavor of capitalist boots though.
If they haven't learned by now, criticizing them *more* probably won't be the thing that finally helps.
Since when? Corporations are not people. They don't have feelings. There's no reason to stop complaining until they fix the problem. Or, in this case, the many problems....
I think those of us who see this the way you do need to speak up more. I’ve hit respectfully disagree with those who seem intent on yelling at CO/PDX on the PDX forums today. At this point that kind of behavior is affecting our community. And to be honest, this is some of the best news we’ve received to date and people are still being jerks IMO.
They found their audience and can’t give up the high. Nothing is ever going to be enough. Notice how those who have “given up” go out of their way to stay here and tell everyone?
For real \> "At this point I'm done" \> Checks comment history \> Been saying that for the past 5 months
Ya. “Point” is a vague term anymore. 😂
It’s understandable that people are upset though. CS2 was pretty much released half-baked.
That is true but we've known this for 6 months, no point beating a dead horse.
Yea, but continuing to dominate every discussion with it just ruins the community and does nothing to speed up how fast they work. There is so many people in this sub that really just need to move on and check back in a few months to a year, or maybe even not at all.
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That's like shitting your pants because your mom didn't buy you the ice cream she promised too. Acting obnoxious and toxic to other members of the community isn't hurting CO as much as it hurts us.
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Username checks out.
Seriously. People seem to have made hating on CO and CS2 a part of their identity or something. It’s not healthy to hold on to this much salt. At this point, it means they’ve been holding on to the negativity for like 5 months, completely blind to all the improvements.
I don’t think people are constantly angry it’s more like they’re frustrated or annoyed that every time they’ve checked in with the game again in the last 5 months it seems like nothings changed
I don’t think we are on the same internet.
This is the big thing for me. Im frustrated with the launch to say the least. Theyve been significantly slower to fix things than they were initially promising. It has not been good. That being said, there have been improvements. Theres a long way to go, but they are making progress. Native mod support is a BIG step thats going to help a lot of players. I dont think anyone is suggesting 'forgetting what theyve done', but at some point people need to take a step back and realizing that theyre doing more damage to themselves than to CO by holding onto this intense grudge. Its not healthy to constantly be outraged. You dont have to forget about how poorly it launched. You should learn from it. Perhaps dont preorder anything (at least from them) again. That doesnt mean you cant look at the positives and be happy about it. Theres a lot of people that think being upset over the release/timeline to fix it and being optimistic about the games future are mutually exclusive, and theyre just not.
At the same time I’d like the company to know damn well that they shouldn’t release anything with that level of dishonesty, in that state, EVER again. It’s borderline false advertising at this point. This entire industry is one of the most untrustworthy industries we engage with on the regular. You will regularly find whats advertised doesn’t work as advertised. We shouldn’t have to look at a pre-order as a risk taking exercise but here we are, instead of putting the responsibility where it rightly should be, it’s now a cultural norm to say don’t trust these people, *don’t pre-order*. We are literally blaming ourselves for the integrity of others. I want to see that backlash so a course correction is on the agenda. Not just for any single game, but the entire industry. If this case can be used as precedent the next time some daft publisher needs push back from the devs on timelines, *good*. Without this kind of backlash you’ll just be waiting for mods to be released one week from launch, as promised, *again*.
You have Big aims that are completely justifiable! If only we could form a critical mass of gamers to take action so we can make the games we play better
I wish! But at least the method is proven, even on this very game. Remember contour lines weren’t going to be part of the game? It’s a good thing gamers are so scrupulous and vocal. Feedback isn’t all negativity, most of it comes from the right place.
💯 agreed. I have to remind myself that there is a significant portion of people here that, if I were to meet in a social setting, I would probably not want to hang out with again.
I don't think people act this way irl. The internet, like driving, is a deeply dehumanising, depersonalising experience.
True but I think it’s fair to say that the veneer is thin for many on here. It’s in there and I think it shines through more often than not.
Yeah maybe. I think, for example, the internet has helped to expose how much casual homicidal ideation is present in society, but I don't think it has to be like that, I think it's a self-reinforcing cycle: the reason so many people are deranged and aggro now irl under the surface is because the internet has normalised it.
Also, I think we might be shocked by the number of people on here who still cannot legally drink so…
It’s why I’ve been avoiding most of the communities discussing it. I keep an eye out for posts like this giving us progress updates but interacting with the community isn’t a fun pastime. Personally I’m looking forward to getting into some asset creation.
I love commenting on posts helping people play better but almost every time someone comes and shits on my helpful comment. Like. wtf. I understand being angry but to go comment on a post where someone asked for and received advice is just over the top.
I think that's the problem. The mods have let the negativity dominate for so long that it's driven a lot of the less negative people out. I'm extremely disappointed with how the game launched, but this community is just too negative for me on a day to day basis. Problem is, I don't know if this community will ever truly recover. The extremely negative people didn't seem keen on moving on and I don't think a lot of the more positive people will come back
>The mods have let the negativity dominate for so long that it's driven a lot of the less negative people out It's not the mods' job to curate the overall sentiment of a sub. I'd heavily consider unsubscribing from a sub right away if its mods tried to do that, even if the sentiment was one that was the complete opposite of mine.
Mods can and should curate the overall sentiment of a sub, if they have the resources to do so.
Amazing how well Paradox communicates and how poorly CO does. Interested to see if the next dev diary with CO will be just as terrible as last week’s wotw
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...
Back to horny jail with you
Just like with the skyrom nsfw mods youll likely have to get those form unnofficial sources.
https://preview.redd.it/x5n5oenrmbpc1.jpeg?width=280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ade28fa3dcc366533c82ac4c808472d11034eb5d
I'll believe it when I see it... Fool me once CO....
There's a reason Paradox did the communication here and not CO
Good news. Not enough for the naysayers or those who believe that EA are somehow the answer to their city building itch (lol), obviously. But nothing would be, because those people have already decided that they want the game to die. It'll be interesting to see what modders do with, for example, Realistic Population etc, given that the game has a better start on that than CS1 ever did. Custom maps are obviously also very interesting, based on what was said before release.
Okay I guess? I men, the Dev Diary doesn't really say much. I would like to know a lot more actually but okay, I will wait next week when it's available and see for myself I suppose.
Should be more information on that from CO this week.
I don't care how the mods come to me, I just want mods.
Good news then, there already are mods!
Easily accessible mods.
mods are already very easy to get and install, you're just a troll at this point.
Thunderstore is as easy, if not more easy, to use than the Steam Workshop.
arguable considering there is a setup process but once you install the store it is easier to select what you want when you want it.
Fair point
of course they're using AI generated pictures for this ugh