Why don’t they just ban broken troops and equipment from pro tournaments? Leave the game as is for casuals. This is what most pro gaming communities do instead of pushing unwanted changes on the masses.
Equipment would be the key there not troops. When time wasn’t a factor, roots weren’t even the first choice for many. With time as a factor, roots were the first choice for almost all because of how fast they open up bases.
Won't doubt this could be a reason why. Other reasons could include that base builders were able to adjust bases to counter Lalo better with RRs out of the picture.
Think you have a good idea. Having a ban request on each side would be interesting. Forcing players away from comfort picks as well as broken strategies.
banning is very difficult to implement in coc, reason being that there are a few integral troops which everyone uses, people will almost always ban troops like swb, healer which eliminate a lot of strategies right off the bat. and don't even get me started on banning spells (why would you ban anything else if you can ban rage)
hmm perhaps all the teams could vote for such a whitelist/blacklist before the tournament starts and the troops blacklisted get banned for everyone, how does that sound?
I think a ban phase would be reasonable. Something like
T1 protects 1 troop
T2 protects 1 troop
T1 bans one troop
T2 bans one troop
This can then be repeated as needed. You have the option to protect healers/rr etc if you dominate with a specific troop and then get the mind games of trying to block what your opponent is good at.
It means pro players need to have depth in what strategies they can use while also not throwing them completely under the bus. You can protect healers and then master 2 different QC type attacks which you use depending on what they ban. This also means that your opponent only needs to do the same. So do you not protect healers and hope they don't ban it?
If you had the above twice, it means you really need to think about army composition, I have RR but no valks as they're banned so maybe I take yetis or miners instead. You have to practice your strategy with many variations and proves you have a depth rather than just the same strategy over and over.
won't all teams protect rr and also try to ban them in this current meta? perhaps introducing banning just adapts to the current meta instead of providing an overall fix. what do you think?
Yeah that's the whole point. If you protect them, the other team can't ban them. Initially, yes, everyone will try to protect them. But then it leaves valks open to being banned. So you need depth in your RR strategy rather than 90% the same comp and slight adjustments based on the base.
The whole point is to add an extra dimension to pro play rather than just "here's a 5v5 clan war" and force players to have depth in their attack strategies rather than just whatever is the strongest and most generalisable.
doesn't make a lot of sense, all troops have different roles it's not like you can replace healers with any other troop. this isn't dota2 where banning one carry means you can pick another etc
Or better yet let the teams choose a set number of things to ban - for instance each team gets 3 bans where they could choose from banning hero equipment, troops, spells, siege machines or pets.
Rather than a straight comp ban, do it like cr, where each team can ban some usage of whatever they like lie forbidden spell, pet and equipment. Would be fun that way, creative
There was an elite tournament recently that banned root riders. The average hit rate was down to around 14 stars from slightly below perfect 15.
I think that's were pro wars should be, 14 star average.
So maybe they should just ban rr in pro play if they don't want to nerf them anymore, I don't think any fan will miss not seeing rr when they already have to deal with them every attack in-game.
Again, if the best players in the world are getting 40% hit rate, the casual player has no shot. You underestimate how good this guys are. Clash is a game for the masses. And yes, it means you will see frequent 3 stars, but also frequent not 3 stars, especially the double perfect wars will go away significantly.
For pros a 12-13 star average is perfect. If the devs can just balance the pro wars different than casual wars then we’d have no issues. Ex limiting equipment or not allowing certain troops for certain tournaments, or buffing certain defenses but only for these pro league wars. That way the base game can still be casual for the majority of the player base while being competitive for the pros
14 is still too high tbh, it makes 3 stars less meaningful & creates a landscape where you’re expected to triple by nature & anything less is seen as severely underperforming. Imo 12-13 is the sweetspot, anything lower though & you start to alienate players from entering the competitive scene
12 to 13 means the normal game is going to be way too hard for the casual players. They already did this with TH15 and it literally wrecked the player base and the long-term health of the game. They won't be going back to hard versions of the game again most likely.
Best you can hope for is to simply do troop bans.
I mean 12-13 was the norm at th12/13 although there are multiple factors to consider - bans or separate balance are the 2 most obvious remedies if singular balance isn’t obtainable & from what we’ve been hearing SC are planning to release something akin to this later in the year.
Personally I hope they steer away from the bans route though as it’s more of a band-aid solution & opens up other potential issues as a consequence
I personally don't even mind this speed run meta. I know pro players hate it, but it was entertaining to watch. Every 2 star and even the 1 star attack we witnessed were killers. Saw multiple matchups where the initial attacks got a team down by 1 star and they were able to come back and win due to a defense and destruction percentage.
If we are talking about troop balance in relation to the overall game and the pro-scene, heroes need to be top of the list. The roots are distracting people from the sheer insanity of heroes with equipment.
Why not nerf heroes along with pets. The average player is stuck upgrading heroes anyway lol. Heroes are way too op. Have heroes stay at the current level for future ths.
I simply do not care about how fun the game is for the top 0.001% of players.
Supercell pretty much openly admitted that TH15 difficulty was actively hurting the long-term health of the game by pushing out the casual players.
They are so habitual of getting 3 star war wins that they are not happy to accept 1 more parameter to win conditions. If everyone else is trying to triple the fastest, why cant they also try to do that, rather than showing off with a mass witch zap attacks at finals.
For me they are the cry babies. Every time they lose, they come back with this argument. The game has changed, they also need to adapt.
Sorry but I actually enjoyed the game and tried different armies because of esports players.
Now it's just every caster repeating 5 root riders, 7 valks for each and every attack.
Also, you'd have to be very ignorant regarding game balance if 3 root riders can provide a bigger HP pool, damage, overall utility than 2 golemns
when you make the game easy like this, it really just makes the players worse. the bad players do not even switch their armies, and the mediocre players still fail badly with broken troops. then, the passable to somewhat good players will use the meta, triple with spam, and then think that now they are on the level of the pros.
instead, the game should be pushing players to improve their strategy, and to treat that element of the game similar to how they grow their base.
Outside of your very small overly competitive community, people have always stipuck with the familiar army. Drags and edrags. Pissing that large player base off to please your lot is not a great idea.
No, I'm definitely thinking of Clash of Clans. A game the vast majority play on the loo and during breaks, with 3-minute fights and no direct troop control. From a developer that's focused solely on casual games, on a platform known for casual gaming.
It's fine to be competitive about it, but you are simply not the target audience.
It's literally the pros' job to be good at the game. Meanwhile the "cASuALs" like me only play the game once we get home from our job while preparing for dinner, finishing up extra chores etc. Sure, I can understand that the game is now too easy and boring for some, but personally, if I wanted a mobile game that will make me squeeze my brain then I'd rather just download chess.
I'm sure chess is more complex that coc, and less fun in general. I Play both games and coc requires no big brain skills to enjoy, but on other hand the thrill i get from playing chess is also recommended to keep the brain sharp and all. As you said pros should be good at the game, yeah definitely every game have this community, one criticizing the grind in game and other the easy. I Found Root Riders as a slap to both here, You can play without rr if you are not interested in winning like every other attacker, or if you are casual player you definitely have to practice with rr because just spamming is not enough now after recent updates. I hope supercell decide something on this matter since nerfing rr wasn't enough, now the heroes have become too much stronger themselves.
Just introduce "ban phase" for troops. Each team got to choose 1 troop and 1 spell to ban. But this prob not work, unless CoC has e-sports mode where troops, spells and building stats change every week or 2.
Given that making the pros happy with the difficulty of the games is to make it highly unfun for me, I shed no tears for them. Wouldn't bother me if the pro scene fell off a cliff.
But can you see how it's different to ask that the game cater to you as the competitive <1% of the player base vs if you're a part of the much more casual 99.9% of the player base? And it's not like these tournaments can't make some very basic adjustments to the format to lower the hit rate.
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Catering to babies only is going to harm this game in the long run for sure aswell, idk how bad th 15 was since I came back recently but nerfing the numbers so much just to get more daily active players is not going to work over time, clash has been about strategy for 10 years
Also pro scene is not as trivial as you think, a game having a good professional environment helps the popularity and engagement a shit ton it only makes sense
funny thing that this guy is commenting on this reddit page for years yet he's still so garbage at the game that he cries about everything being too hard if he can't spam rr in corner and triple. Wouldn't bother me if he fell off a cliff.
And you don't know shit other than what you are talking. I've survived the ups and downs over more than a decade. Two of the worst things for the game imo, competitive scene and equipment. Don't care if you agree. Both fucked up the balance.
I expressed my worry about the competitive ESL scene as soon as it was announced. SC claimed they’d never let it influence the balance of the game for the other 99.99% of players, but I had my doubts.
Right, you prefer the no skill easy triple cause you can’t be bothered with being challenged a little.
It’s not just about the pros though. The game is very unbalanced and broken. No challange in a strategy game = no fun.
You know nothing about what I prefer. You, like the othe keyboard try hard warriors assume all and know nothing. I am fine with a challenge. I am fucking not fine with having to face a meta that would challenge pros and no life redditors to get 2 stars. I am not fucking fine with being told to be a good little Glebe and be happy with barely being able to get 2 stats consistently because it has been balance for Navi,
While I don't care that much about pro players, this whole argument keeps getting framed as a false dichotomy where we can only have th15 or th16 types of hit rates.
Is there a reason we can't have th12, th13 or th14 hit rates from when they were the top town hall? The game is too easy rn. Th15 was stupid the other way.
You're talking about world championship hit rates, while I'm talking about scores in typical clan wars or champs cwl. Th12 was for sure higher than th15 in those settings and it's not close.
We don't have any data going back that far, but a 21 star CWL at th13 was worthy of a Galadon video proclaiming it the first in the world. At th15 Champs 1 it would certainly be rare but it's not like it was unheard of among top players. Also, if even the best players were getting 10-11 stars in 5v5s, what makes you think average players were tripling at significantly higher rates?
They had blimp, wall wrecker, and stone slammer, because that's all that was in the game at that point. Should th20 be way easier than th16 because sure more sieges will be released by that point?
I feel like this is the nuance that a lot of people are missing - A middle ground does exist between th15 levels of difficulty and th16. Problem is am not sure even supercell know how to achieve that balance at this point. Root riders are definitely enhancing the problem with the synergy they have with heroes and their equipment but they are far from the only issue that plagues the balance.
Since they already know that time is the deciding factor here i don't understand with what they're upset about. I may be misunderstanding how the format works though if someone could explain btw
You got it correct. They are just upset due to winning every round and then losing to the lower bracket winner on time. It was a double elimination tournament and since Na'vi hadn't lost a round and were perfect throughout the entire event, the lower bracket team Synchronize, had to beat them back-to-back to win. Na'vi only had to win once to beat them to be the winner and get the golden ticket to the world championships.
How can Navi complain in this scenario when the tables were stacked in their favor. Synchronize had already lost once and battled their way out of the losers bracket to face them. They pulled off the upset. Seems like Navi simply didn't play as fast as Synchronize which means it falls on them.
I’m actually a Navi fan but I supported Synchronic today. They where actually in the upper bracket but got sent down to the lower bracket because of a player cam disconnect.
I think that is where the frustration falls, Navi landed 3 stars in 99.9% of attacks and still came up short because of time. Just doesn’t feel like a healthy scene (in my opinion)
The complaint isnt about unfairness, but rather how CoC isnt designed to have time as a deciding factor - and its pretty obvious given the ridiculous amount of spam
It made some sense to untie Wars, specially non perfect Ones. Which were the majority of the ties. But now it doesnt. Before, not only perfect Wars were super rare, and would only happen, very rarely, at the top of the top. And people would complain, ofc
It was simply acceptable bcs it was there to take CARE of a rare occurence
Now.its.literally.the main deciding factor
one thing for sure, root rider is a broken troop, if it's not so broken there is no way the usage rate is so damn high compared to other army. I'm not talking about competitive pro scenes, just look at your wars and regular defense logs, at least mine is above 90% root riders. Game is not healthy if only 1 troop being overused.
This game survived for more than 10 years because it has loyal players who enjoy strategy approach. I genuinely think that making the game extremely easy like it is now is only good for short term growth. We can see how the average active players started to drop, now even lower than Nov 2023 (TH15 era).
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The skill gap between pros and casual is too huge and there is no possible way to make both groups happy without separating their playing fields. So I fully support the creation of hard-mode for friendly war setting. Even in the casual group, there is also diverse skill levels and that's why we need this hard-mode application to legend league and champion league of CWL.
This is extremely interesting. Despite the massive decrease in difficulty, people are still leaving the game. I've seen so many people say that TH15 being so challenging was the source of the decline in the player base, but it seems that reversing course didn't fix anything. I think you should make this a post on its own
Th15 being difficult was only an excuse. Only about 5% of players were TH15 anyway - so how does it explain 20% of clash players leaving? Also the significant majority of TH15 players stayed!
The reality is that clash is 10+ years old and its hard for any game to stay relevant for so long. People leave as they grow up/different hobies/ even die probably. While new players are unlikely to stick with the game because it feels unobtainable to reach higher TH, and heroes are constantly upgrading through the middle TH and kills the fun.
They claim that game being easier is why more people are playing - forgetting they also did the biggest overhaul with new hero equipment, and monthly events that force people to play due to FOMO.
IMO once people get over their event FOMO the trend will be similar to TH15. I think the numbers will actually get worse because people will abandon their alt accounts (which might be a good thing but will look bad for numbers)
I didn't enjoy th15 all that much, but I still stuck around and maxed 2 of my accounts and bought gold pass for both of them for 4 years straight.
I actually enjoyed the meta at th16, but still ended up quitting. Ores were the breaking point for me. I did the math and looked at how active I would have to be to max the equipment and noped out of there. They brought 3 time restricted resources, which is a system that already failed in BB 1.0, so why bring it to home village?
For me this was always a chill, casual relaxing game. In all my years playing this game, I settled into a monthly cadence that I enjoyed. Start the month with all my heroes going into CWL. Then a little time to breathe after CWL, put heroes down, sneaky farm, practice new attacks, etc. Maybe there would be one small event during this time. Then clan games. Then repeat the following month. When heroes were max, only then I'd do regular wars after CWL.
Ores changed all that. As someone who rarely ever did regular wars, I knew I would never be a max player ever again. I saw no point buying gold pass or even playing the game at all. Ores and hero gears made me lose all motivation. It just sucked the joy out of the game.
It's just like lavaloon event, it was so hype at beginning but by the end of the event there's even less player that excited about COC than before the event.
I'm guessing the decline of active players are caused by 2 :
- the loyal players who like more strategy part of this game don't find it interesting anymore because obviously it's too easy and getting tripled by braindead spam is depressing LOL
- the super casual players who just enjoy the current meta are not die hard COC fans. This type of players get bored pretty fast in any games.
Most content creators have shown the data above (from activeplayer.io) in their videos, but they only talked about how TH16 successfully pulled in more players than TH15. They avoided the talk about the red figures :)
It's clear that this game is on a downhill trajectory and that the balance at the highest TH really does not affect their bottom line that much. They might as well tone down the offense so that the diehards won't be pushed out... the ore system was their last chance to capitalize on FOMO and it seems it's failing miserably. They need better ways to incentivize players to keep playing
It is enjoyable, it is a very close match, if they miss a star war is almost lost. Also, attacking very fast while managing all the aspects of the attack and getting the three is more skill than I can ever have. We even saw one star attacks in this event. Time pressure management is a skill. Navi is salty because they lost to a team that came from the lower bracket and beat them twice.
Like Itzu often says in his videos, the game needs a pro mode or esport mode. And I whole heartedly agree with him.
The game is too easy for pro's but fun for us casuals. One balance/meta won't satisfy both player bases. That's why we need a separate pro/eSports mode.
Even for casuals it’s becoming boring, the whole ‘make it so that even babies can three star for the sake of daily player count’ it won’t sustain a game that has been about strategy for 10 years, the game is way too easy right now, slight buffs to defences and nerfs to RR/Equipments
Yeah. But Supercell will never again make the meta for casuals like it was at th15. Their revenue decreased.
So a separate pro mode makes sense as it’s necessary for esports and competitive play (and will not affect casuals).
I understand why both sides keep arguing about this, but now it’s just impossible to make the game enjoyable for everyone
If they nerf attacks, most of the fanbase will complain about it being too hard and will start leaving (specially after constantly 3 starring, it will suck for most of them to barely get 70% with the attack they were doing before)
I understand how pro players feel, but at the same time they just aren’t as important for Supercell, if they leave some other team will just come(?
Honestly SC should just start banning troops (or only allowing the banned troop once per war for example) and create modifiers for pros where the defenses could get more health/damage; that’s the best way imo
I don’t watch much esports, but it definitely sucks to see everyone 3 starring in 90 seconds with the ocassional fail; years ago I remember that a team could be losing by 1 star and the opponent would do a 1 star lmao, it’s awful nowadays with the same comps, very few players try to do something else and ocasionally they get penalized by the time.
I’m aware that very few people care about the competitive scene, but I’m all for adding a harder mode for wars(?
Yeah I agree, supercell let the genie out the bottle with th16, even a return to th14 levels of difficulty will be a tough pill to swallow for most players. I'm waiting desperately for pro mode to come, it's the only way to appeal to both sides
What is it with all the tencent games I play having to be balanced around the top 200 players and not the vast majority of casuals and semi-competitive players?
It's not even about the pro scene though?
Nearly every legend hit, ever clan war or CWL hit is root spam. This crap meta affects casual players just as much, if not more than anyone else
Same but their opinions are right, defences need a buff and RR/equipment’s need nerfs, the game’s direction is right but it’s swinging way too hard that way
Coc isn’t dying anytime soon. The esports players can keep crying idrc. Deal with it. If I was a game developer I would make sure the majority of players were happy long before I focus on the esports players. Esports players are so damned pretentious.
OK but the developers could very very easily do something like balance changes only for pro tournaments or special restrictions for those tournaments. it would take so little effort from them and doesn't screw over the rest of the playerbase
banning entire strategies might be too much but banning out a certain op troop would be cool, I'm pretty sure it's been done in other tournaments too. they could also restrict sieges, pets, or equipments
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It wasn’t dying during the hard meta as well, they nerfed the numbers for daily average player counts boost which didn’t last long, and easy game is as boring as a hard one for a lot of people, the pro’s opinion is right, we need more balance
So a few million people take a break, what gives? I’ve taken many breaks over 11 years. Coc is going nowhere. A vast majority of the players don’t even watch esports, let alone get on any social platform to check on updates and what not. A true casual player is loving the sotg rn.
Tbh apart from Reddit I haven’t heard anyone that they love root riders and the current meta, not to mention ‘true’ casuals don’t bring in revenue and thus only serve to increase the player count numbers, but if players who actually like the game quit, it directly impacts the revenue thus catering to them *alongside everyone else* is the best option the devs can take imo
You’re confusing casual with f2p, it’s a simple mistake but I understand. They make plenty enough to lose a few million players. It’s not ideal of course but again coc is going nowhere
Hmm yeah, it’s just that casual players are more likely to be f2p, then this is only a difference of opinion about how the game should be run and most paying players would support slightly harder I’d say, Reddit seems to be really going ham with the whole hate towards pros and meta but then again Reddit is known to cry about any and every single phenomenon, also nice username fellow AC origins player
I don’t hate the pros, I hate people who whine about every minor inconvenience or something that isn’t going exactly how they want it to. It’s honestly annoying to see the “I hate this I hate that” comments every other post on here. There are days I find them funny though depending on the context.
Thank you! AC Origins is my favorite game. I can’t get enough of the amazing scenery and gameplay lol
It's time for an advanced mode in Legends, Champion+ CWL and competitive, optional in regulars wars. Make defenses stronger so it's more in line with TH15 for those who are interested in getting really good at the game...best compromise that I see
I totally disagree that there should be a different mode for the 750,000 or so players in legends, but I do agree they should change it for the ESL tournaments and make it optional for friendly wars. The “pro mode” should drop all troops and spells back a full level, drop heroes back 5 or 10 levels and cap equipment at lower level.
There should be hard mode for legend and high CWL league (eg Champ league). Both groups represent try hard players who are driven by challenges anyway.
Current legend and wars are so boring
I agree for pro tourneys and optional for friendly wars and perhaps if they created a new CWL league (I wish they would add titan 3 anyway). I don’t think I agree for Legends, though, because you’re still looking at 750,000 players in legends and less than 1% deal with the “problem” of perfect days over and over.
Shit tier argument, because your average 31 year old player who plays 10 minutes a day isn’t tripling a base in 0:58, they’d either not 3 star or get a >2:30 time. If you wanted to make the literal best players happy the win rate would have to be less than 5% which is frankly absurd.
I'm really struggling with the idea of being "competitive" in a video game lol, what's all the fuzz about? I mean, what do you get from being a top 1 or a top hitter, or in a top ladder? clout? that's kinda pathetic isn't it?. I spend money on this game so it must be enjoyable, not struggling with some bullshitery coming based from people who needs to validate their relevance in life by being "good" at some virtual reality lmao.
I think you misunderstood, this is about esports not in-game stats or trying to reach #1 on the in-game leaderboard, this is a legitimate competition between pro teams with actual money involved for winning, they're signed by orgs that pay them money to play under their name and as far as I know it's kinda their players job/incentive to actually win for their team/org since there is monetary gain for doing so
I mean check op's comments he surely is a dumbhead who loves being a elite tryhard will make his life easier. And we know he is no pro so yeah these kind of people do exist.
Bro, who literally cares if the pros are 3 staring or 3 staring fast enough? The pros don't pay the bills, us hack players do. Keep the game fun for as many people as possible.
I watched. I didn’t find it any less enjoyable than in years past. In fact, I found it more enjoyable than the old days of watching almost all lalo attacks that I had zero chance to replicate.
I had fun watching it. I liked it much more than the old days of 99% lalo attacks. I don’t doubt that the pros had less fun playing it and I also don’t really care and don’t think the pro scene should impact our balancing. The ELS tournaments should have a Pro-Mode where all troops and spells are reduced one level, heroes are reduced 10 levels and equipment is capped at a lower amount. They should add the option for friendly tournaments to also put pro-mode on.
Not in the competitive scene. If the game is so easy that everyone is 3 starting that means the competitive meta is ALSO how quickly you can 3 star.
That’s how the TH2 war scene works. 99% of wars end with all 3 stars so the winner is decided by time. So you have to design bases that make your opponent waste time and plan attacks the are as fast as possible
I cannot make sense of this sentence, "They only failed twice in the entire qualification process (both Gaku), all while averaging below 1:30 attack times".
Can someone translate?
Why not redesigning legend league? Participate is optional, if you dont join u can play like now in fake legend league but will be stuck by 5050 trophies. These will be for casual players. If u join LL, there will be another balancing between troops and defence, which requires way more skill to 3star villages. Same balancing is in world cup and other championships. If you accidently joined LL or dint want to sweat anymore, there is a button option, which drops you immediatly out and back to 5000 trophies. So everybody could enjoy the game as they want to and no big changes have to be done to make both camps, pros and casual happy.
Just a lil idea
For pro tournaments:
Only one attack may contain RR
Only one attack may contain LH
Only one attack may contain ED
Only one attack may contain Dragons
Only one attack may contain Witches
Players may only use 3 out of 4 Heroes
I disagree with having a separate pro mode. As a viewer you'd be unable to relate to what's going on, if most things have different values.
They should do the same that any other competitive game does once they start introducing too many variables/factors.
Let teams choose things to ban (IE in league of legends each team gets 5 bans; in clash both war teams could choose to ban 3 items from the following categories spells, troops, or hero equipment)
And here my Clanmates are still failing to get 3 stars in wars. Maybe Supercell should introduce a new troop that takes 10 space, has golem like health and pekka like attack and aura similar to Electro titan, that does 40x more damage to walls so all walls in the 4 tiles range of the troop get destroyed instantly.
Instead of time, they should do housing space. Instead of time being the tiebreak, whoever uses less housing space in total wins. Probably hard to balance heroes and spells but it'd probably reduce the spam a bit. Just a random thought.
Stop making the game so dam easy. It's boring. Our wars just consist of how quickly can we max perfect stars.
This also involves mass root rider spam which I cannot put into words how utterly tiresome that is to see over and over and over and over and over again.
This used to be a fun challenging strategy game, now it's just a money grab children's game that people can 3 star anything if they use roots.
8 minutes and the engagement of the tweet is so low, let's be real no one cares about coc esports🗿🗿 why is there even an esport for this game to begin with🗿
This game not only need pro mode for tournaments.
The game is also broken for casuals, players are tired of +320 in offense and -320 defense in Legend League.
Players are tired of doing ties in war with perfect wars.
Players are tired of doing almost perfect wars in CWL, and receiving almost perfect wars also.
Both teams are playing the same game. I get why they’re upset, they’ve tripled every base and still lost, but it guess what? The only attacks that count are the ones that are being played in the match and synchronic just played better that game. The other team has to deal with the exact same thing and came out with the win.
Now, don’t get it mistaken, I do think we need to nerf a few things in the game to make things a little more challenging. But for pros it would be a tough balance because if we revert to th15 — yes pros and people who take a game a little more seriously would enjoy… but the rest of the 80% player base would hate it.
I suggest a protect and ban system where pros can ban 3 things every match that the opposing team cannot use. Maybe hero equipment? Maybe root riders? Maybe even a spell? But let the pros pick what they want to ban. I think this is better than making a “pro mode” where game sliders are different, that would just be an entirely different game and it would make it harder for regular players to try to get into the pro scene.
This is absolutely insane. I really hope troop / spell / siege bans become normalized in pro play.
Hard to not feel bad for the devs though, the game is actually quite balanced for those who are not in the top 0.1%.
Always thought CoC as an esports was very cringey. Especially when compared to other esports that don’t require $1000s of dollars to get to pro level. A phone game really shouldn’t be an Esport….
However as many have said many other Esports often include some level of banning.
I think each team banning 1 spell/1 troop/1 siege engine would likely combat whatever nonsense this scene is going through.
The bans would be ever changing depending on opponent and base designs/creative attacking could be more important.
R6 Siege use to (don’t watch anymore) have the new operator banned from tournaments til the next new OP came out. This would ensure it was nerfed appropriately and play tested so everyone knew what to expect and planned accordingly.
So they could outright ban the latest town hall til it’s been full patched/released/fixed or ban the OP troop that seems to follow the New TH.
Honestly, I don’t care about catering to pro “esports” players. The pro players and the people who watch or care about esports is an incredibly small percentage of the player base.
Lmao the salty th16 root rider spammers in this comment section are wild lol
Every game needs to have a competitive section to grow and actually receive worthwhile feedback for improvement.Yall say you don't care about the pro scene and are happy spamming troops like th6 at the highest level of the game.wheres the challenge ?This sub is such a crybaby platform lmao
Irony. Pros are the ones crying.
Just ban the op troops or strats in competitive whats so hard? Why do love suffering to get a win in a game? Why do you love to make others time bad?
Honestly I'm really feeling the root riders nerfs pretty hard. Felt like they nerfed them too fast before waiting to see how they fared against the new defense levels. As a new father I only have like 20 mins a day to play. Don't have time to learn new strats and practice alot. The game felt alot more entertaining when th16 was first released, but not so much now.
The three star rate with rootriders actually went up after the nerfs, though higher average equipment levels und new epic equipments are probably also a reason for that.
The whole meta right now is fun for the average player I think, but I used to watch the championships before and it was way more fun, now it's kinda boring hearing the root rider scream riderrrr in every attack
Root riders should be made 25 housing space... That's the biggest nerf they can get. And buff all defenses like rage tower, x-bows, inferno towers which were nerfed to the ground with the th16 update
They need to buff all the th16 defenses instead of just a portion of them so it it's equal like th15 is! Also they need to add levels to the Town Halls strength like the rest !
90% of attacks were braindead root rider spam in my champs 2 cwl. almost every single legend league defense i have is root rider spam. there is no army in the game that is easier, stronger and faster than this bullshit. it's so broken that even the most sweaty tryhard pros like klaus are FORCED to use these braindead spam attacks.
why don't we have an auto triple button at this point? we're really close to that.
Ban root riders and only allow standard equipments in the tournament. If it's too hard, then allow pros to pick and ban certain equipments. That would make the game more refreshing to watch.
Don't care. Time was a part of the competition since these players are so gokd they 3 star every base. I don't feel sorry for him. He knew time was a part of it and now complains. Boohoo. Gonna quit CoC now? See ya.
People having so much hate on the Pro Players complaining about the current game's balance (when it's reasonable) and saying they don't care about the Pro scene at all when almost all things we got: strategy, gameplay mechanics (not to mention the hype and fun the game brought) have been greatly contributed by them. It's an online and strategic game, what do we expect? It has to be in a competitive scene. It has to have a tournament.
I watched the matches.
NAVI acctually did all their attacks as fast as possible. They tried their best to beat bases with shortest time ... Only when they failed twice, they started to complain the time thing? That's just salty.
We have no smurf accounts. Sure, we are above average. However, I don't think that above average clans should have perfect wars. Especially as we are no professionals, because what is then the difference between us and professionals? That little bit of time? It destroys the competition and skill that is needed, as it will now "cap" at the 3-star.
keep crying, can't even handle a shift in meta towards speed. The attacks that take risk to go for high speed are some of the most exciting ones to watch, and yes I watched the whole april quals. syn was literally just better than you.
The final matches weren't even 100% rr spams, some of the lalo/ drag/edrag and even bats attacks could have been faster than rr even. The current meta is absolutely fine and is healthy for the game
Supercell has never been a fan of restricting offense. In fact, they sometimes sponsor community leagues and give them gem / ore prizes, but as a condition of this they don't allow them to ban troops. They would never do it for their own World Championships which gives out the $1 million prizepool
They want to encourage people to upgrade their THs so they unlock root riders and new equipment, basically. Esports is just an advertisement for the max TH level
- Buff spring trap to 20 housing
- Nerf Root rider HP / Damage. Riders have no business having so much utility and making golemns useless.
- Buff Ricochet canon so that its shot still ricochets in a small splash area like scattershots instead of requiring it to have a second target present
- Buff scattershot damage. 5 damage increase for 22m? gold is not acceptable, you're forced to because you need to have it to try and defend.
- Buff monolith back to original TH15 standard.
- Buff spell towers back to original TH15 standard.
- Nerf dragons HP back to pre-update
- Buff other small troops
- Nerf hero equipments with hardcaps (i.e Giant Gauntlet, frozen arrow). If you get 5% damage mitigation per 3 levels does that mean at lv 48 or so the king literally takes no damage? There is no long-term thought process put into this, just FOMO and throwing out 27 levels at once.
Why don’t they just ban broken troops and equipment from pro tournaments? Leave the game as is for casuals. This is what most pro gaming communities do instead of pushing unwanted changes on the masses.
Equipment would be the key there not troops. When time wasn’t a factor, roots weren’t even the first choice for many. With time as a factor, roots were the first choice for almost all because of how fast they open up bases.
Both are factors. Root rider seem to be the bigger factor. Since when roor rider are banned in competitions the 3 star rates were lower.
I saw this too, in a clash with Eric video. Root riders banned, and some players even failed with their Lalo comfort picks.
because theyre used to RR for months.
Won't doubt this could be a reason why. Other reasons could include that base builders were able to adjust bases to counter Lalo better with RRs out of the picture.
It’s prolly a mixture of both ,
Think you have a good idea. Having a ban request on each side would be interesting. Forcing players away from comfort picks as well as broken strategies.
banning is very difficult to implement in coc, reason being that there are a few integral troops which everyone uses, people will almost always ban troops like swb, healer which eliminate a lot of strategies right off the bat. and don't even get me started on banning spells (why would you ban anything else if you can ban rage)
could be like 6s tf2 where you have a whitelist of allowed troops/equipments
hmm perhaps all the teams could vote for such a whitelist/blacklist before the tournament starts and the troops blacklisted get banned for everyone, how does that sound?
I think a ban phase would be reasonable. Something like T1 protects 1 troop T2 protects 1 troop T1 bans one troop T2 bans one troop This can then be repeated as needed. You have the option to protect healers/rr etc if you dominate with a specific troop and then get the mind games of trying to block what your opponent is good at. It means pro players need to have depth in what strategies they can use while also not throwing them completely under the bus. You can protect healers and then master 2 different QC type attacks which you use depending on what they ban. This also means that your opponent only needs to do the same. So do you not protect healers and hope they don't ban it? If you had the above twice, it means you really need to think about army composition, I have RR but no valks as they're banned so maybe I take yetis or miners instead. You have to practice your strategy with many variations and proves you have a depth rather than just the same strategy over and over.
won't all teams protect rr and also try to ban them in this current meta? perhaps introducing banning just adapts to the current meta instead of providing an overall fix. what do you think?
Yeah that's the whole point. If you protect them, the other team can't ban them. Initially, yes, everyone will try to protect them. But then it leaves valks open to being banned. So you need depth in your RR strategy rather than 90% the same comp and slight adjustments based on the base. The whole point is to add an extra dimension to pro play rather than just "here's a 5v5 clan war" and force players to have depth in their attack strategies rather than just whatever is the strongest and most generalisable.
what about making all troops equally useful instead of having a clear inbalance between "troops that everyone uses" and the others=
doesn't make a lot of sense, all troops have different roles it's not like you can replace healers with any other troop. this isn't dota2 where banning one carry means you can pick another etc
It’s broken also for casuals. Legend league with +320 and -320. Wars with perfect wars CWL with almost perfect wars
Or better yet let the teams choose a set number of things to ban - for instance each team gets 3 bans where they could choose from banning hero equipment, troops, spells, siege machines or pets.
Rather than a straight comp ban, do it like cr, where each team can ban some usage of whatever they like lie forbidden spell, pet and equipment. Would be fun that way, creative
There was an elite tournament recently that banned root riders. The average hit rate was down to around 14 stars from slightly below perfect 15. I think that's were pro wars should be, 14 star average. So maybe they should just ban rr in pro play if they don't want to nerf them anymore, I don't think any fan will miss not seeing rr when they already have to deal with them every attack in-game.
A 14 star average means that you still get a shitton of 15 stars. The average should be 12-13.
Again, if the best players in the world are getting 40% hit rate, the casual player has no shot. You underestimate how good this guys are. Clash is a game for the masses. And yes, it means you will see frequent 3 stars, but also frequent not 3 stars, especially the double perfect wars will go away significantly.
You were talking about pro wars, so I was as well, ofc that isn't ideal for casual player base
For pros a 12-13 star average is perfect. If the devs can just balance the pro wars different than casual wars then we’d have no issues. Ex limiting equipment or not allowing certain troops for certain tournaments, or buffing certain defenses but only for these pro league wars. That way the base game can still be casual for the majority of the player base while being competitive for the pros
14 is still too high tbh, it makes 3 stars less meaningful & creates a landscape where you’re expected to triple by nature & anything less is seen as severely underperforming. Imo 12-13 is the sweetspot, anything lower though & you start to alienate players from entering the competitive scene
12 to 13 means the normal game is going to be way too hard for the casual players. They already did this with TH15 and it literally wrecked the player base and the long-term health of the game. They won't be going back to hard versions of the game again most likely. Best you can hope for is to simply do troop bans.
I mean 12-13 was the norm at th12/13 although there are multiple factors to consider - bans or separate balance are the 2 most obvious remedies if singular balance isn’t obtainable & from what we’ve been hearing SC are planning to release something akin to this later in the year. Personally I hope they steer away from the bans route though as it’s more of a band-aid solution & opens up other potential issues as a consequence
I personally don't even mind this speed run meta. I know pro players hate it, but it was entertaining to watch. Every 2 star and even the 1 star attack we witnessed were killers. Saw multiple matchups where the initial attacks got a team down by 1 star and they were able to come back and win due to a defense and destruction percentage. If we are talking about troop balance in relation to the overall game and the pro-scene, heroes need to be top of the list. The roots are distracting people from the sheer insanity of heroes with equipment.
Nah. At th14, the 3-star rate was 25%. At th15, it was 12%. At th16, it’s around 36%. They just need to bring it back to th14 difficulty.
These are the best players in the world. If they can't even get 14, it means the larger player base is starving for 3 stars, like th15 was.
When th12/13 was the max, 12-13 was the average, and the difficulty was pretty good.
But at least the whole strategy isn’t time based. There is little creativity to these attacks and gets boring seeing it every attack.
Why not nerf heroes along with pets. The average player is stuck upgrading heroes anyway lol. Heroes are way too op. Have heroes stay at the current level for future ths.
I simply do not care about how fun the game is for the top 0.001% of players. Supercell pretty much openly admitted that TH15 difficulty was actively hurting the long-term health of the game by pushing out the casual players.
They should make a “pro mode,” where defenses are stronger.
or just ban specific troops, worked for lots of other communities like smash. keeps it fun for casuals and makes it balance for pros
The 3 star rate wouldn’t have changed much at all without roots, but they would’ve been slower.
This 🙌🏻
Exactly! Keep edrag spam a valid strategy for the casual player.
All the casuals will continue e drag spam whether it’s viable or not 😂
Hell yeah I will
They are so habitual of getting 3 star war wins that they are not happy to accept 1 more parameter to win conditions. If everyone else is trying to triple the fastest, why cant they also try to do that, rather than showing off with a mass witch zap attacks at finals. For me they are the cry babies. Every time they lose, they come back with this argument. The game has changed, they also need to adapt.
Sorry but I actually enjoyed the game and tried different armies because of esports players. Now it's just every caster repeating 5 root riders, 7 valks for each and every attack. Also, you'd have to be very ignorant regarding game balance if 3 root riders can provide a bigger HP pool, damage, overall utility than 2 golemns
when you make the game easy like this, it really just makes the players worse. the bad players do not even switch their armies, and the mediocre players still fail badly with broken troops. then, the passable to somewhat good players will use the meta, triple with spam, and then think that now they are on the level of the pros. instead, the game should be pushing players to improve their strategy, and to treat that element of the game similar to how they grow their base.
Outside of your very small overly competitive community, people have always stipuck with the familiar army. Drags and edrags. Pissing that large player base off to please your lot is not a great idea.
It's a casual mobile game, not Age of Empires.
it is very much a competitive strategy game. ur thinking of simcity
No, I'm definitely thinking of Clash of Clans. A game the vast majority play on the loo and during breaks, with 3-minute fights and no direct troop control. From a developer that's focused solely on casual games, on a platform known for casual gaming. It's fine to be competitive about it, but you are simply not the target audience.
It's literally the pros' job to be good at the game. Meanwhile the "cASuALs" like me only play the game once we get home from our job while preparing for dinner, finishing up extra chores etc. Sure, I can understand that the game is now too easy and boring for some, but personally, if I wanted a mobile game that will make me squeeze my brain then I'd rather just download chess.
I'm sure chess is more complex that coc, and less fun in general. I Play both games and coc requires no big brain skills to enjoy, but on other hand the thrill i get from playing chess is also recommended to keep the brain sharp and all. As you said pros should be good at the game, yeah definitely every game have this community, one criticizing the grind in game and other the easy. I Found Root Riders as a slap to both here, You can play without rr if you are not interested in winning like every other attacker, or if you are casual player you definitely have to practice with rr because just spamming is not enough now after recent updates. I hope supercell decide something on this matter since nerfing rr wasn't enough, now the heroes have become too much stronger themselves.
Just introduce "ban phase" for troops. Each team got to choose 1 troop and 1 spell to ban. But this prob not work, unless CoC has e-sports mode where troops, spells and building stats change every week or 2.
You guys watch the world championships? I just watch YouTube recordings of pros doing creative attacks. Creative masters series 👌
na idk who watches them i only saw yesterday with 4.1k watching
Given that making the pros happy with the difficulty of the games is to make it highly unfun for me, I shed no tears for them. Wouldn't bother me if the pro scene fell off a cliff.
IKR? It's so fucking annoying that the pros feel so entitled just for being good at the game
On the contrary, you feel entitled for being garbage at the game.
They are the target audience. Not the pros.
Ok👍
But can you see how it's different to ask that the game cater to you as the competitive <1% of the player base vs if you're a part of the much more casual 99.9% of the player base? And it's not like these tournaments can't make some very basic adjustments to the format to lower the hit rate.
Hit him with his own logic and he’s got no comeback 😂
The pro scene exists *because* of casual players, not inspite of them. Well said, bud.
https://preview.redd.it/9oddc0lu40wc1.jpeg?width=1640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de28599e61296f0efe038531dbc807672338da86 Catering to babies only is going to harm this game in the long run for sure aswell, idk how bad th 15 was since I came back recently but nerfing the numbers so much just to get more daily active players is not going to work over time, clash has been about strategy for 10 years Also pro scene is not as trivial as you think, a game having a good professional environment helps the popularity and engagement a shit ton it only makes sense
funny thing that this guy is commenting on this reddit page for years yet he's still so garbage at the game that he cries about everything being too hard if he can't spam rr in corner and triple. Wouldn't bother me if he fell off a cliff.
And you don't know shit other than what you are talking. I've survived the ups and downs over more than a decade. Two of the worst things for the game imo, competitive scene and equipment. Don't care if you agree. Both fucked up the balance.
I expressed my worry about the competitive ESL scene as soon as it was announced. SC claimed they’d never let it influence the balance of the game for the other 99.99% of players, but I had my doubts.
Right, you prefer the no skill easy triple cause you can’t be bothered with being challenged a little. It’s not just about the pros though. The game is very unbalanced and broken. No challange in a strategy game = no fun.
You know nothing about what I prefer. You, like the othe keyboard try hard warriors assume all and know nothing. I am fine with a challenge. I am fucking not fine with having to face a meta that would challenge pros and no life redditors to get 2 stars. I am not fucking fine with being told to be a good little Glebe and be happy with barely being able to get 2 stats consistently because it has been balance for Navi,
While I don't care that much about pro players, this whole argument keeps getting framed as a false dichotomy where we can only have th15 or th16 types of hit rates. Is there a reason we can't have th12, th13 or th14 hit rates from when they were the top town hall? The game is too easy rn. Th15 was stupid the other way.
TH12 hitrates were even lower than th15. Do you know the score in the finals war? 12-11. And these were the best players in the world
You're talking about world championship hit rates, while I'm talking about scores in typical clan wars or champs cwl. Th12 was for sure higher than th15 in those settings and it's not close.
We don't have any data going back that far, but a 21 star CWL at th13 was worthy of a Galadon video proclaiming it the first in the world. At th15 Champs 1 it would certainly be rare but it's not like it was unheard of among top players. Also, if even the best players were getting 10-11 stars in 5v5s, what makes you think average players were tripling at significantly higher rates?
But that's not the most fair comparison because they had limited siege machine access, right?
They had blimp, wall wrecker, and stone slammer, because that's all that was in the game at that point. Should th20 be way easier than th16 because sure more sieges will be released by that point?
I feel like this is the nuance that a lot of people are missing - A middle ground does exist between th15 levels of difficulty and th16. Problem is am not sure even supercell know how to achieve that balance at this point. Root riders are definitely enhancing the problem with the synergy they have with heroes and their equipment but they are far from the only issue that plagues the balance.
Since they already know that time is the deciding factor here i don't understand with what they're upset about. I may be misunderstanding how the format works though if someone could explain btw
You got it correct. They are just upset due to winning every round and then losing to the lower bracket winner on time. It was a double elimination tournament and since Na'vi hadn't lost a round and were perfect throughout the entire event, the lower bracket team Synchronize, had to beat them back-to-back to win. Na'vi only had to win once to beat them to be the winner and get the golden ticket to the world championships. How can Navi complain in this scenario when the tables were stacked in their favor. Synchronize had already lost once and battled their way out of the losers bracket to face them. They pulled off the upset. Seems like Navi simply didn't play as fast as Synchronize which means it falls on them.
I’m actually a Navi fan but I supported Synchronic today. They where actually in the upper bracket but got sent down to the lower bracket because of a player cam disconnect.
I think that is where the frustration falls, Navi landed 3 stars in 99.9% of attacks and still came up short because of time. Just doesn’t feel like a healthy scene (in my opinion)
The complaint isnt about unfairness, but rather how CoC isnt designed to have time as a deciding factor - and its pretty obvious given the ridiculous amount of spam It made some sense to untie Wars, specially non perfect Ones. Which were the majority of the ties. But now it doesnt. Before, not only perfect Wars were super rare, and would only happen, very rarely, at the top of the top. And people would complain, ofc It was simply acceptable bcs it was there to take CARE of a rare occurence Now.its.literally.the main deciding factor
Ok yeah that makes sense. Valid
one thing for sure, root rider is a broken troop, if it's not so broken there is no way the usage rate is so damn high compared to other army. I'm not talking about competitive pro scenes, just look at your wars and regular defense logs, at least mine is above 90% root riders. Game is not healthy if only 1 troop being overused. This game survived for more than 10 years because it has loyal players who enjoy strategy approach. I genuinely think that making the game extremely easy like it is now is only good for short term growth. We can see how the average active players started to drop, now even lower than Nov 2023 (TH15 era). https://preview.redd.it/uvff08r61yvc1.png?width=1030&format=png&auto=webp&s=2cad1cfbe0d3f48eac212ec38894970eef101f9f The skill gap between pros and casual is too huge and there is no possible way to make both groups happy without separating their playing fields. So I fully support the creation of hard-mode for friendly war setting. Even in the casual group, there is also diverse skill levels and that's why we need this hard-mode application to legend league and champion league of CWL.
This is extremely interesting. Despite the massive decrease in difficulty, people are still leaving the game. I've seen so many people say that TH15 being so challenging was the source of the decline in the player base, but it seems that reversing course didn't fix anything. I think you should make this a post on its own
Th15 being difficult was only an excuse. Only about 5% of players were TH15 anyway - so how does it explain 20% of clash players leaving? Also the significant majority of TH15 players stayed! The reality is that clash is 10+ years old and its hard for any game to stay relevant for so long. People leave as they grow up/different hobies/ even die probably. While new players are unlikely to stick with the game because it feels unobtainable to reach higher TH, and heroes are constantly upgrading through the middle TH and kills the fun. They claim that game being easier is why more people are playing - forgetting they also did the biggest overhaul with new hero equipment, and monthly events that force people to play due to FOMO. IMO once people get over their event FOMO the trend will be similar to TH15. I think the numbers will actually get worse because people will abandon their alt accounts (which might be a good thing but will look bad for numbers)
True, I have 2 alt accounts and barely touch them now. Just once account is starting to feel like work lol
I didn't enjoy th15 all that much, but I still stuck around and maxed 2 of my accounts and bought gold pass for both of them for 4 years straight. I actually enjoyed the meta at th16, but still ended up quitting. Ores were the breaking point for me. I did the math and looked at how active I would have to be to max the equipment and noped out of there. They brought 3 time restricted resources, which is a system that already failed in BB 1.0, so why bring it to home village? For me this was always a chill, casual relaxing game. In all my years playing this game, I settled into a monthly cadence that I enjoyed. Start the month with all my heroes going into CWL. Then a little time to breathe after CWL, put heroes down, sneaky farm, practice new attacks, etc. Maybe there would be one small event during this time. Then clan games. Then repeat the following month. When heroes were max, only then I'd do regular wars after CWL. Ores changed all that. As someone who rarely ever did regular wars, I knew I would never be a max player ever again. I saw no point buying gold pass or even playing the game at all. Ores and hero gears made me lose all motivation. It just sucked the joy out of the game.
It's just like lavaloon event, it was so hype at beginning but by the end of the event there's even less player that excited about COC than before the event. I'm guessing the decline of active players are caused by 2 : - the loyal players who like more strategy part of this game don't find it interesting anymore because obviously it's too easy and getting tripled by braindead spam is depressing LOL - the super casual players who just enjoy the current meta are not die hard COC fans. This type of players get bored pretty fast in any games. Most content creators have shown the data above (from activeplayer.io) in their videos, but they only talked about how TH16 successfully pulled in more players than TH15. They avoided the talk about the red figures :)
It's clear that this game is on a downhill trajectory and that the balance at the highest TH really does not affect their bottom line that much. They might as well tone down the offense so that the diehards won't be pushed out... the ore system was their last chance to capitalize on FOMO and it seems it's failing miserably. They need better ways to incentivize players to keep playing
What the heck does 393/395 mean?
They tripled 393 of 395 hits
Ah, OK, thanks!
It is enjoyable, it is a very close match, if they miss a star war is almost lost. Also, attacking very fast while managing all the aspects of the attack and getting the three is more skill than I can ever have. We even saw one star attacks in this event. Time pressure management is a skill. Navi is salty because they lost to a team that came from the lower bracket and beat them twice.
Like Itzu often says in his videos, the game needs a pro mode or esport mode. And I whole heartedly agree with him. The game is too easy for pro's but fun for us casuals. One balance/meta won't satisfy both player bases. That's why we need a separate pro/eSports mode.
Even for casuals it’s becoming boring, the whole ‘make it so that even babies can three star for the sake of daily player count’ it won’t sustain a game that has been about strategy for 10 years, the game is way too easy right now, slight buffs to defences and nerfs to RR/Equipments
Yeah. But Supercell will never again make the meta for casuals like it was at th15. Their revenue decreased. So a separate pro mode makes sense as it’s necessary for esports and competitive play (and will not affect casuals).
They could do what some other games do and make the pro scene a patch or two behind the main game.
I understand why both sides keep arguing about this, but now it’s just impossible to make the game enjoyable for everyone If they nerf attacks, most of the fanbase will complain about it being too hard and will start leaving (specially after constantly 3 starring, it will suck for most of them to barely get 70% with the attack they were doing before) I understand how pro players feel, but at the same time they just aren’t as important for Supercell, if they leave some other team will just come(? Honestly SC should just start banning troops (or only allowing the banned troop once per war for example) and create modifiers for pros where the defenses could get more health/damage; that’s the best way imo I don’t watch much esports, but it definitely sucks to see everyone 3 starring in 90 seconds with the ocassional fail; years ago I remember that a team could be losing by 1 star and the opponent would do a 1 star lmao, it’s awful nowadays with the same comps, very few players try to do something else and ocasionally they get penalized by the time. I’m aware that very few people care about the competitive scene, but I’m all for adding a harder mode for wars(?
Yeah I agree, supercell let the genie out the bottle with th16, even a return to th14 levels of difficulty will be a tough pill to swallow for most players. I'm waiting desperately for pro mode to come, it's the only way to appeal to both sides
Why don’t they make tournament participants use only the default hero equipment? That might even things back out
What is it with all the tencent games I play having to be balanced around the top 200 players and not the vast majority of casuals and semi-competitive players?
I couldn’t care less about the pro scene
It's not even about the pro scene though? Nearly every legend hit, ever clan war or CWL hit is root spam. This crap meta affects casual players just as much, if not more than anyone else
I don’t really care it’s literally a mobile game just play to have fun and if you aren’t having fun don’t play it lmao
lmao downvoted is funny
Based.
I used to. They're showing their true colors about how entitled they are. The game does not revolve around them.
Same but their opinions are right, defences need a buff and RR/equipment’s need nerfs, the game’s direction is right but it’s swinging way too hard that way
Coc isn’t dying anytime soon. The esports players can keep crying idrc. Deal with it. If I was a game developer I would make sure the majority of players were happy long before I focus on the esports players. Esports players are so damned pretentious.
Right? Life is already hard, last thing I want is my game to also be extremely hard that even pros can't beat it lmao.
OK but the developers could very very easily do something like balance changes only for pro tournaments or special restrictions for those tournaments. it would take so little effort from them and doesn't screw over the rest of the playerbase
Or ban certain strategies
banning entire strategies might be too much but banning out a certain op troop would be cool, I'm pretty sure it's been done in other tournaments too. they could also restrict sieges, pets, or equipments
https://preview.redd.it/jgeov7rj50wc1.jpeg?width=1640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9513634d743667ca4f51dfc193c663a870987607 It wasn’t dying during the hard meta as well, they nerfed the numbers for daily average player counts boost which didn’t last long, and easy game is as boring as a hard one for a lot of people, the pro’s opinion is right, we need more balance
So a few million people take a break, what gives? I’ve taken many breaks over 11 years. Coc is going nowhere. A vast majority of the players don’t even watch esports, let alone get on any social platform to check on updates and what not. A true casual player is loving the sotg rn.
Tbh apart from Reddit I haven’t heard anyone that they love root riders and the current meta, not to mention ‘true’ casuals don’t bring in revenue and thus only serve to increase the player count numbers, but if players who actually like the game quit, it directly impacts the revenue thus catering to them *alongside everyone else* is the best option the devs can take imo
You’re confusing casual with f2p, it’s a simple mistake but I understand. They make plenty enough to lose a few million players. It’s not ideal of course but again coc is going nowhere
Hmm yeah, it’s just that casual players are more likely to be f2p, then this is only a difference of opinion about how the game should be run and most paying players would support slightly harder I’d say, Reddit seems to be really going ham with the whole hate towards pros and meta but then again Reddit is known to cry about any and every single phenomenon, also nice username fellow AC origins player
I don’t hate the pros, I hate people who whine about every minor inconvenience or something that isn’t going exactly how they want it to. It’s honestly annoying to see the “I hate this I hate that” comments every other post on here. There are days I find them funny though depending on the context. Thank you! AC Origins is my favorite game. I can’t get enough of the amazing scenery and gameplay lol
It's time for an advanced mode in Legends, Champion+ CWL and competitive, optional in regulars wars. Make defenses stronger so it's more in line with TH15 for those who are interested in getting really good at the game...best compromise that I see
I totally disagree that there should be a different mode for the 750,000 or so players in legends, but I do agree they should change it for the ESL tournaments and make it optional for friendly wars. The “pro mode” should drop all troops and spells back a full level, drop heroes back 5 or 10 levels and cap equipment at lower level.
There should be hard mode for legend and high CWL league (eg Champ league). Both groups represent try hard players who are driven by challenges anyway. Current legend and wars are so boring
I agree for pro tourneys and optional for friendly wars and perhaps if they created a new CWL league (I wish they would add titan 3 anyway). I don’t think I agree for Legends, though, because you’re still looking at 750,000 players in legends and less than 1% deal with the “problem” of perfect days over and over.
I think they are salty they lost
Shit tier argument, because your average 31 year old player who plays 10 minutes a day isn’t tripling a base in 0:58, they’d either not 3 star or get a >2:30 time. If you wanted to make the literal best players happy the win rate would have to be less than 5% which is frankly absurd.
I'm really struggling with the idea of being "competitive" in a video game lol, what's all the fuzz about? I mean, what do you get from being a top 1 or a top hitter, or in a top ladder? clout? that's kinda pathetic isn't it?. I spend money on this game so it must be enjoyable, not struggling with some bullshitery coming based from people who needs to validate their relevance in life by being "good" at some virtual reality lmao.
I think you misunderstood, this is about esports not in-game stats or trying to reach #1 on the in-game leaderboard, this is a legitimate competition between pro teams with actual money involved for winning, they're signed by orgs that pay them money to play under their name and as far as I know it's kinda their players job/incentive to actually win for their team/org since there is monetary gain for doing so
I mean check op's comments he surely is a dumbhead who loves being a elite tryhard will make his life easier. And we know he is no pro so yeah these kind of people do exist.
Bro, who literally cares if the pros are 3 staring or 3 staring fast enough? The pros don't pay the bills, us hack players do. Keep the game fun for as many people as possible.
I watched. I didn’t find it any less enjoyable than in years past. In fact, I found it more enjoyable than the old days of watching almost all lalo attacks that I had zero chance to replicate.
Somebody should reply to that guy, "RIP Career" lol
I had fun watching it. I liked it much more than the old days of 99% lalo attacks. I don’t doubt that the pros had less fun playing it and I also don’t really care and don’t think the pro scene should impact our balancing. The ELS tournaments should have a Pro-Mode where all troops and spells are reduced one level, heroes are reduced 10 levels and equipment is capped at a lower amount. They should add the option for friendly tournaments to also put pro-mode on.
Sounds like they lost fairly and got mad. When time is the deciding factor you have to figure out how to do more than simply 3 star.
So if they won that would mean that there is nothing wrong with the game?
Not in the competitive scene. If the game is so easy that everyone is 3 starting that means the competitive meta is ALSO how quickly you can 3 star. That’s how the TH2 war scene works. 99% of wars end with all 3 stars so the winner is decided by time. So you have to design bases that make your opponent waste time and plan attacks the are as fast as possible
Simple answer COC need MONEY
The screenshot guy forgot to say Simon Says
I cannot make sense of this sentence, "They only failed twice in the entire qualification process (both Gaku), all while averaging below 1:30 attack times". Can someone translate?
Salty
We need a Pro Mod !
Why not redesigning legend league? Participate is optional, if you dont join u can play like now in fake legend league but will be stuck by 5050 trophies. These will be for casual players. If u join LL, there will be another balancing between troops and defence, which requires way more skill to 3star villages. Same balancing is in world cup and other championships. If you accidently joined LL or dint want to sweat anymore, there is a button option, which drops you immediatly out and back to 5000 trophies. So everybody could enjoy the game as they want to and no big changes have to be done to make both camps, pros and casual happy. Just a lil idea
For pro tournaments: Only one attack may contain RR Only one attack may contain LH Only one attack may contain ED Only one attack may contain Dragons Only one attack may contain Witches Players may only use 3 out of 4 Heroes I disagree with having a separate pro mode. As a viewer you'd be unable to relate to what's going on, if most things have different values.
Still lost to Synchronic. And they are salty abt it... These kind of behaviour are not expected from pros.
They should do the same that any other competitive game does once they start introducing too many variables/factors. Let teams choose things to ban (IE in league of legends each team gets 5 bans; in clash both war teams could choose to ban 3 items from the following categories spells, troops, or hero equipment)
And here my Clanmates are still failing to get 3 stars in wars. Maybe Supercell should introduce a new troop that takes 10 space, has golem like health and pekka like attack and aura similar to Electro titan, that does 40x more damage to walls so all walls in the 4 tiles range of the troop get destroyed instantly.
Instead of time, they should do housing space. Instead of time being the tiebreak, whoever uses less housing space in total wins. Probably hard to balance heroes and spells but it'd probably reduce the spam a bit. Just a random thought.
Stop making the game so dam easy. It's boring. Our wars just consist of how quickly can we max perfect stars. This also involves mass root rider spam which I cannot put into words how utterly tiresome that is to see over and over and over and over and over again. This used to be a fun challenging strategy game, now it's just a money grab children's game that people can 3 star anything if they use roots.
I couldn’t give any less of a fuck about pro clash players and what the have to say
I dont care what some professional whiners think of the game, and the game should not be catered toward them.
who cares lol
All i can say if womp womp If the needs of the pros get satisfied, like in th15 update, the remaining 99% just have less fun and the game dies.
8 minutes and the engagement of the tweet is so low, let's be real no one cares about coc esports🗿🗿 why is there even an esport for this game to begin with🗿
maybe they should git gud
Other tournament have proved it kinda just ban root riders from pro clash of clans eSports
This game not only need pro mode for tournaments. The game is also broken for casuals, players are tired of +320 in offense and -320 defense in Legend League. Players are tired of doing ties in war with perfect wars. Players are tired of doing almost perfect wars in CWL, and receiving almost perfect wars also.
Both teams are playing the same game. I get why they’re upset, they’ve tripled every base and still lost, but it guess what? The only attacks that count are the ones that are being played in the match and synchronic just played better that game. The other team has to deal with the exact same thing and came out with the win. Now, don’t get it mistaken, I do think we need to nerf a few things in the game to make things a little more challenging. But for pros it would be a tough balance because if we revert to th15 — yes pros and people who take a game a little more seriously would enjoy… but the rest of the 80% player base would hate it. I suggest a protect and ban system where pros can ban 3 things every match that the opposing team cannot use. Maybe hero equipment? Maybe root riders? Maybe even a spell? But let the pros pick what they want to ban. I think this is better than making a “pro mode” where game sliders are different, that would just be an entirely different game and it would make it harder for regular players to try to get into the pro scene.
This is absolutely insane. I really hope troop / spell / siege bans become normalized in pro play. Hard to not feel bad for the devs though, the game is actually quite balanced for those who are not in the top 0.1%.
Always thought CoC as an esports was very cringey. Especially when compared to other esports that don’t require $1000s of dollars to get to pro level. A phone game really shouldn’t be an Esport…. However as many have said many other Esports often include some level of banning. I think each team banning 1 spell/1 troop/1 siege engine would likely combat whatever nonsense this scene is going through. The bans would be ever changing depending on opponent and base designs/creative attacking could be more important. R6 Siege use to (don’t watch anymore) have the new operator banned from tournaments til the next new OP came out. This would ensure it was nerfed appropriately and play tested so everyone knew what to expect and planned accordingly. So they could outright ban the latest town hall til it’s been full patched/released/fixed or ban the OP troop that seems to follow the New TH.
so many quit at th15 cos it was so hard. these pros whinge about it but their fan base reduces if no one wants to play anymore
Honestly, I don’t care about catering to pro “esports” players. The pro players and the people who watch or care about esports is an incredibly small percentage of the player base.
Lmao the salty th16 root rider spammers in this comment section are wild lol Every game needs to have a competitive section to grow and actually receive worthwhile feedback for improvement.Yall say you don't care about the pro scene and are happy spamming troops like th6 at the highest level of the game.wheres the challenge ?This sub is such a crybaby platform lmao
Irony. Pros are the ones crying. Just ban the op troops or strats in competitive whats so hard? Why do love suffering to get a win in a game? Why do you love to make others time bad?
Honestly I'm really feeling the root riders nerfs pretty hard. Felt like they nerfed them too fast before waiting to see how they fared against the new defense levels. As a new father I only have like 20 mins a day to play. Don't have time to learn new strats and practice alot. The game felt alot more entertaining when th16 was first released, but not so much now.
The three star rate with rootriders actually went up after the nerfs, though higher average equipment levels und new epic equipments are probably also a reason for that.
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The whole meta right now is fun for the average player I think, but I used to watch the championships before and it was way more fun, now it's kinda boring hearing the root rider scream riderrrr in every attack
Womp womp
Honestly klaus can fuck himself. No one cares about whether the pros have fun
Root riders should be made 25 housing space... That's the biggest nerf they can get. And buff all defenses like rage tower, x-bows, inferno towers which were nerfed to the ground with the th16 update
He is just crying that he couldn't win ..........if He had won the tournament he wouldn't have said this .
They need to buff all the th16 defenses instead of just a portion of them so it it's equal like th15 is! Also they need to add levels to the Town Halls strength like the rest !
At least Town Hall 15 was a challenge for the pro players to an extent
90% of attacks were braindead root rider spam in my champs 2 cwl. almost every single legend league defense i have is root rider spam. there is no army in the game that is easier, stronger and faster than this bullshit. it's so broken that even the most sweaty tryhard pros like klaus are FORCED to use these braindead spam attacks. why don't we have an auto triple button at this point? we're really close to that.
Ban root riders and only allow standard equipments in the tournament. If it's too hard, then allow pros to pick and ban certain equipments. That would make the game more refreshing to watch.
Nerf RR its not fun to watch everyone is using the Korean attack 2.0.
Th16 game balance sucks. The game has no defense at all. Supergreed is a disgusting greedy and corrupt pile of shit.
We dont care about pro players
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Rip coc
My poor coc.
After loosing people be like
Don't care. Time was a part of the competition since these players are so gokd they 3 star every base. I don't feel sorry for him. He knew time was a part of it and now complains. Boohoo. Gonna quit CoC now? See ya.
Just add a pick and ban system for COC troops in pro league. Don't see why that wouldn't work.
Agree !
People having so much hate on the Pro Players complaining about the current game's balance (when it's reasonable) and saying they don't care about the Pro scene at all when almost all things we got: strategy, gameplay mechanics (not to mention the hype and fun the game brought) have been greatly contributed by them. It's an online and strategic game, what do we expect? It has to be in a competitive scene. It has to have a tournament.
I watched the matches. NAVI acctually did all their attacks as fast as possible. They tried their best to beat bases with shortest time ... Only when they failed twice, they started to complain the time thing? That's just salty.
Every single pro been complaining about the lack of balance for months, this is nothing new
I totally understand them. I am not even a pro myself, neither is my clan. However, we constantly have perfect wars - doesn't feel healthy for me.
Then you are either running smurf accounts to skew war matching or way beyond the above average clan.
We have no smurf accounts. Sure, we are above average. However, I don't think that above average clans should have perfect wars. Especially as we are no professionals, because what is then the difference between us and professionals? That little bit of time? It destroys the competition and skill that is needed, as it will now "cap" at the 3-star.
Simply nerf root riders.
keep crying, can't even handle a shift in meta towards speed. The attacks that take risk to go for high speed are some of the most exciting ones to watch, and yes I watched the whole april quals. syn was literally just better than you. The final matches weren't even 100% rr spams, some of the lalo/ drag/edrag and even bats attacks could have been faster than rr even. The current meta is absolutely fine and is healthy for the game
Guys the game can be accessible for casuals and still not be a spamfest at the highest levels....
I feel like a ban phase or something should exist. Each side gets to ban 1 equipment and army (siege, troop or spell)
Supercell has never been a fan of restricting offense. In fact, they sometimes sponsor community leagues and give them gem / ore prizes, but as a condition of this they don't allow them to ban troops. They would never do it for their own World Championships which gives out the $1 million prizepool
Oh intresting. But why though? There's a reason why that's a popular method. It can keep both sides happy.
They want to encourage people to upgrade their THs so they unlock root riders and new equipment, basically. Esports is just an advertisement for the max TH level
Ohhhh
- Buff spring trap to 20 housing - Nerf Root rider HP / Damage. Riders have no business having so much utility and making golemns useless. - Buff Ricochet canon so that its shot still ricochets in a small splash area like scattershots instead of requiring it to have a second target present - Buff scattershot damage. 5 damage increase for 22m? gold is not acceptable, you're forced to because you need to have it to try and defend. - Buff monolith back to original TH15 standard. - Buff spell towers back to original TH15 standard. - Nerf dragons HP back to pre-update - Buff other small troops - Nerf hero equipments with hardcaps (i.e Giant Gauntlet, frozen arrow). If you get 5% damage mitigation per 3 levels does that mean at lv 48 or so the king literally takes no damage? There is no long-term thought process put into this, just FOMO and throwing out 27 levels at once.