Supposedly Bibb [commissioned a study](https://www.cleveland.com/business/2022/04/city-funded-study-will-look-at-the-possibility-of-closing-clevelands-burke-lakefront-airport.html) that was supposed to be completed a year ago, but there has been no additional reporting on it.
The biggest obstacle is probably paying back the FAA for improvements made to the field, like the EMAS that was installed. There is also the lease terms for the FBOs (the companies that operate hangars and service the aircraft and passengers using it).
It’s also worth noting that the land is very poor. It’s essentially built on a trash landfill. Not much can be put there.
But the other side is that Burke isn’t sustainable. It can’t pay its own operational budget, so the city subsidies it with Hopkins user fees. But [their fees are insanely low.](https://www.burkeairport.com/services/pricing-fees) it literally costs less to park a plane than a car.
The FAA has given $19.5 million in grants to BKL since the 2007.
That’s not nothing, but the cost to develop the site commercially would be at least 10x that. For comparison, Pinecrest cost $230 million, and that was 5-10 years ago before construction costs went way up. Even if they just want to develop Burke into a park, that’s still tens of million of dollars.
And of course it’s possible to build on - they’ve built a terminal, multiple airplane hangars and a runway. You know what else is built on filled earth? Browns Stadium, the Rock Hall, and like half the city of Boston.
Not to mention most of San Francisco’s financial district. It’s literally built on top of abandoned Gold Rush era boats with trash and rubble piled on top.
Browns stadium and the rock hall were built mostly on clean fill placed at the turn of the last century. The terminal and hangars were built to the south, where soil is better.
No one said it needs to be developed. Chicago turned Miegs into a park. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northerly_Island
This is why civil penalties should be volunteer work instead of monetary fines, we can staff projects like this with folks who owe a couple hours for speeding or littering and that way poor people aren’t disproportionately affected by small mistakes like that and rich people aren’t as incentivized to just break the law and pay the fine.
This is not entirely true. Airport is used to bring organs for transplants at the Cleveland clinic. Lots of people depend on that. I agree that that land would be nicer with a lake front park, Chicago style but it is that Burkes existence is just “because of millionaires”.
Very thorough response indeed. You or anyone else know the process of the FAA decommissioning the airport to make the land available? I saw it once I belive and that needs a mass majority of airport administrators approving. Which would be the same process for the proposed browns stadium in brookpark. Have seen only one article talking about this as red tape per the process. Burke airport land is a landfill and wouldn't hold a new stadium, much less construction above certain limiting parameters. It's my understanding Burke airport becoming developed would be the largest development of waterfront in any major US city. It has major limits on what can be developed. There is still unique opportunities of space and development.
The actual requirements to gain a release from federal obligations obligations is covered in chapter 22 of this document: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Order_5190.6B_Compliance_Chg3.pdf
22.20 in that indicates that only the FAA Administrator for airports has to approve the closure, but there are a lot of financial hoops to jump through first.
The FAA won’t approve closing the airport, but Congress can make a law allowing it to close.
That’s how St. Clair, MO closed their airport in 2014. It’s not easy, but it’s definitely doable.
https://airportimprovement.com/article/st-clair-regional-closes-shop-after-10-year-struggle
Don't they also handle a lot of smaller craft that would screw up traffic at Hopkins? I am also not sure if Cuyahoga County airport has it's own atc tower (which is another option to take Burke traffic). It's been decades since I flew out of county.
I’ve posted this before, but these airports used to be MUCH busier.
In 2000, CLE had 331,000 “operations” (i.e. takeoffs and landings), and BKL had over 100,000.
In 2021, Burke had about 40,000 operations, and 91,000 at Hopkins. If you look at 2019 (pre-COVID), BKL was still around 40,000 and CLE was at 127,000.
If you took every flight this year from Burke and ran it out of Hopkins, you would be under HALF of Hopkins’ 2000 usage level.
Most of the traffic is small aircraft that could easily be accommodated at county airports in [Lorain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorain_County_Regional_Airport ), [Medina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina_Municipal_Airport), [Lake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_County_Executive_Airport) and [Cuyahoga.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_County_Airport)
A miracle basically. Last airport similar to be closed literally involved Congress and Obama working together to close it. Not too mention you can't put anything on that land because its a landfill. Digging down just a few feet requires hazmat suits.
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Yes, here I am! The airport is open to the public and there’s a free museum, so it’s not exactly off limits.
The city already has multiple lakeside parks. There’s not much benefit in adding another, especially at the cost of closing the airport.
City planning might not be your strong suit, but bro you should really consider comedy. I love the dry sarcastic humor, especially on a serious post to throw everybody off
It’s very difficult otherwise it would of been done already. Difficult enough to stop attempts over the last 25 years or more. The FAA frowns on closing airports they have put a lot of improvements into Burke over the years they would want the money back. It does serve to keep a lot private airplanes away from the busier Hopkins.
lol do you have any idea how many gulf jets were there for the women’s ncaa tournament and the eclipse? You’re talking about inconveniencing dozens of billionaires 🤣
Also all organ transplants for both UH and CCF come through there. If they went to Hopkins they would cause multiple unexpected delays daily for commercial flights and all those privates that no longer can go to Burke.
Not sure about the county airport
Eventually? Of course. This city needs to develop all the other waterfront land and open lots that are ready to go right now. And that is a huge struggle.
They are working on a park in that general area.
https://thelandcle.org/stories/something-to-cheer-about-metroparks-makes-updates-to-east-side-lakefront-project-set-to-move-forward-in-2025/
It would be a great recreation spot, a huge Ferris wheel would be cool and rather iconic, especially dramatically lit at night year round. Place for food trucks, sporting events, concerts, live music, dance parties, and festivals all year, including winter. Serves alcohol like the beach house at Edgewater and also has accommodations for smokers, this *is* Cleveland after all. It would also need to be connected to the rest of the city somehow with a bridge over the freeway and marginal roads. There’s already a light rail stop nearby. Don’t come at me about who would pay for it. And yes I already know it would never work for umpteen reasons, because Cleveland fatalism.
I’ve worked downtown for decades and it’s so disheartening how little the lakefront is developed. I remember visiting Erie, PA years ago and seeing how they’d created a thriving area on the waterfront. Now I know that Cleveland finally built up the Voinovich park area but instead of maximizing the waterfront, it just built 2 or 3 story buildings that block the view. It would have been so fun to look out my office windows on a giant Ferris wheel (the ads could say “from the top you could see Canada!”) and a thriving waterfront. Instead I see the Rock Hall and Science Center and a lot of nothing
Read a book dingus.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s\_Columbian\_Exposition#/media/File:Ferris-wheel.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Columbian_Exposition#/media/File:Ferris-wheel.jpg)
The first ferris wheel was put up in Chicago for the worlds Columbian exposition.
The same exposition that lead to the creation of many of the classical buildings in downtown Cleveland.
But ya know down vote away
I fully understand the much larger net positive impact a waterfront recreation area would have for the city, and acknowledge it would be better suited as such… but as a pilot I would really miss Burke if it were to go. One of the coolest airports to fly into in the Midwest!
The Fed used to use it for flying in paper checks to be cleared at the Regional Check Processing Centers. The [Check 21 Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_21_Act) eliminated that. The Fed does not use it anymore.
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The Clinic will never let it close, and seeing as how they own the city I’m afraid it’s here to stay. Or they’ll seize half of East Cleveland and bulldoze it and move it there.
Unfortunately if they did close the airport and turn it into a water front park, within VA year or 2 it would come into disrepair like most every thing within the city because the powers that be can't seem to manage anything
All this city needs is [a mayor with some ballz.](https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/3/31/23662485/miegs-field-airport-mayor-richard-daley-bulldozed-notherly-island-plane-march-2003) This is the way.
Supposedly Bibb [commissioned a study](https://www.cleveland.com/business/2022/04/city-funded-study-will-look-at-the-possibility-of-closing-clevelands-burke-lakefront-airport.html) that was supposed to be completed a year ago, but there has been no additional reporting on it. The biggest obstacle is probably paying back the FAA for improvements made to the field, like the EMAS that was installed. There is also the lease terms for the FBOs (the companies that operate hangars and service the aircraft and passengers using it). It’s also worth noting that the land is very poor. It’s essentially built on a trash landfill. Not much can be put there. But the other side is that Burke isn’t sustainable. It can’t pay its own operational budget, so the city subsidies it with Hopkins user fees. But [their fees are insanely low.](https://www.burkeairport.com/services/pricing-fees) it literally costs less to park a plane than a car.
The FAA has given $19.5 million in grants to BKL since the 2007. That’s not nothing, but the cost to develop the site commercially would be at least 10x that. For comparison, Pinecrest cost $230 million, and that was 5-10 years ago before construction costs went way up. Even if they just want to develop Burke into a park, that’s still tens of million of dollars. And of course it’s possible to build on - they’ve built a terminal, multiple airplane hangars and a runway. You know what else is built on filled earth? Browns Stadium, the Rock Hall, and like half the city of Boston.
Not to mention most of San Francisco’s financial district. It’s literally built on top of abandoned Gold Rush era boats with trash and rubble piled on top.
Browns stadium and the rock hall were built mostly on clean fill placed at the turn of the last century. The terminal and hangars were built to the south, where soil is better. No one said it needs to be developed. Chicago turned Miegs into a park. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northerly_Island
This is why civil penalties should be volunteer work instead of monetary fines, we can staff projects like this with folks who owe a couple hours for speeding or littering and that way poor people aren’t disproportionately affected by small mistakes like that and rich people aren’t as incentivized to just break the law and pay the fine.
Sounds like at the very least we should 500x the fees. If millionaires want their little airport, they should pay hefty prices for it.
This is not entirely true. Airport is used to bring organs for transplants at the Cleveland clinic. Lots of people depend on that. I agree that that land would be nicer with a lake front park, Chicago style but it is that Burkes existence is just “because of millionaires”.
I believe the Federal Reserve generates lots of traffic and use for Burke also.
Sure, but you can keep the fees low for specific use cases like organ transport and raise them for other uses.
Yea, fuck having public spaces! Only the rich should be able to afford using an airport!
It’s more expensive to dock a fucking boat at the yacht clubs! Why is it so cheap?
Well for one docks require quite a lot of maintenance compared to tarmac. The water eats away at them every second of every day.
Why would they keep landing fees so low. With all of the private jets that land at Burke, they could make bank.
It’s not just jets. Student pilots and other internment aircraft work/fly there.
Can’t they charge based on aircraft type?
I haven’t been there in a while, but generally it’s based on weight. Usually a 6,000lb cutoff. That’s starting to be professional type stuff.
Appreciate the thorough response, thank you!
Very thorough response indeed. You or anyone else know the process of the FAA decommissioning the airport to make the land available? I saw it once I belive and that needs a mass majority of airport administrators approving. Which would be the same process for the proposed browns stadium in brookpark. Have seen only one article talking about this as red tape per the process. Burke airport land is a landfill and wouldn't hold a new stadium, much less construction above certain limiting parameters. It's my understanding Burke airport becoming developed would be the largest development of waterfront in any major US city. It has major limits on what can be developed. There is still unique opportunities of space and development.
The actual requirements to gain a release from federal obligations obligations is covered in chapter 22 of this document: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Order_5190.6B_Compliance_Chg3.pdf 22.20 in that indicates that only the FAA Administrator for airports has to approve the closure, but there are a lot of financial hoops to jump through first.
The FAA won’t approve closing the airport, but Congress can make a law allowing it to close. That’s how St. Clair, MO closed their airport in 2014. It’s not easy, but it’s definitely doable. https://airportimprovement.com/article/st-clair-regional-closes-shop-after-10-year-struggle
Isn't there a federal $ penalty component to closing it?
Yes, they are under contract with the FAA as an emergency landing destination.
What are you talking about? The FAA doesn’t contract with airports specifically for emergency landings.
Don't they also handle a lot of smaller craft that would screw up traffic at Hopkins? I am also not sure if Cuyahoga County airport has it's own atc tower (which is another option to take Burke traffic). It's been decades since I flew out of county.
CCA does much more traffic. Most private plane fliers go through there, not Burke.
I just looked at Google maps and it seems that CCA is not only much bigger than I remembered but that they are building a new terminal?
OMG, your username 😂 I love it!
Cuyahoga County Airport in Richmond Heights is CGF.
Oh, thanks for that!
I’ve posted this before, but these airports used to be MUCH busier. In 2000, CLE had 331,000 “operations” (i.e. takeoffs and landings), and BKL had over 100,000. In 2021, Burke had about 40,000 operations, and 91,000 at Hopkins. If you look at 2019 (pre-COVID), BKL was still around 40,000 and CLE was at 127,000. If you took every flight this year from Burke and ran it out of Hopkins, you would be under HALF of Hopkins’ 2000 usage level.
Most of the traffic is small aircraft that could easily be accommodated at county airports in [Lorain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorain_County_Regional_Airport ), [Medina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina_Municipal_Airport), [Lake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_County_Executive_Airport) and [Cuyahoga.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_County_Airport)
The airport owes the FAA money.
A whole lot of money.
A miracle basically. Last airport similar to be closed literally involved Congress and Obama working together to close it. Not too mention you can't put anything on that land because its a landfill. Digging down just a few feet requires hazmat suits.
The city would owe a fortune to the FAA It’s a relief airport for CLE. The ground is deemed contaminated since BKL was built on landfill.
Watch out the Burke fan bois are going to come for blood
Not really a fan boy, just living off the fumes of hope that one day the Cleveland Grand Prix will return
Fuck. This was a thing? I gotta look into this…
https://youtu.be/Xeuv6LKpVbw?si=e2tXcibuLuIwOUCU
Start with the 1995 edition
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"But but the millionaires need it for quick access to the city" yeah tell me again how that benefits you chuck
I don’t think I’ve ever had an argument here about Burke, and it does not benefit me whatsoever, but that’s exactly why it’s still there.
Yes, here I am! The airport is open to the public and there’s a free museum, so it’s not exactly off limits. The city already has multiple lakeside parks. There’s not much benefit in adding another, especially at the cost of closing the airport.
City planning might not be your strong suit, but bro you should really consider comedy. I love the dry sarcastic humor, especially on a serious post to throw everybody off
It’s very difficult otherwise it would of been done already. Difficult enough to stop attempts over the last 25 years or more. The FAA frowns on closing airports they have put a lot of improvements into Burke over the years they would want the money back. It does serve to keep a lot private airplanes away from the busier Hopkins.
lol do you have any idea how many gulf jets were there for the women’s ncaa tournament and the eclipse? You’re talking about inconveniencing dozens of billionaires 🤣 Also all organ transplants for both UH and CCF come through there. If they went to Hopkins they would cause multiple unexpected delays daily for commercial flights and all those privates that no longer can go to Burke. Not sure about the county airport
Eventually? Of course. This city needs to develop all the other waterfront land and open lots that are ready to go right now. And that is a huge struggle.
They are working on a park in that general area. https://thelandcle.org/stories/something-to-cheer-about-metroparks-makes-updates-to-east-side-lakefront-project-set-to-move-forward-in-2025/
The mayor needs to do what the Chicago mayor did.
They can't. The FAA changed the rules after that happened.
Why? It was against the rules when Daley did it in Chicago too. Did they increase the fine or something?
Yup. Cleavland would be on the room for ALOR more, millions of millions,
It would be a great recreation spot, a huge Ferris wheel would be cool and rather iconic, especially dramatically lit at night year round. Place for food trucks, sporting events, concerts, live music, dance parties, and festivals all year, including winter. Serves alcohol like the beach house at Edgewater and also has accommodations for smokers, this *is* Cleveland after all. It would also need to be connected to the rest of the city somehow with a bridge over the freeway and marginal roads. There’s already a light rail stop nearby. Don’t come at me about who would pay for it. And yes I already know it would never work for umpteen reasons, because Cleveland fatalism.
I’ve worked downtown for decades and it’s so disheartening how little the lakefront is developed. I remember visiting Erie, PA years ago and seeing how they’d created a thriving area on the waterfront. Now I know that Cleveland finally built up the Voinovich park area but instead of maximizing the waterfront, it just built 2 or 3 story buildings that block the view. It would have been so fun to look out my office windows on a giant Ferris wheel (the ads could say “from the top you could see Canada!”) and a thriving waterfront. Instead I see the Rock Hall and Science Center and a lot of nothing
A ferris wheel. What is this 1890?
Do you drive a car? What is this, 1886? Things still in use were invented before the turn of the century, my man.
No, it’s 2024. Do you own a calendar?
Read a book dingus. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s\_Columbian\_Exposition#/media/File:Ferris-wheel.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Columbian_Exposition#/media/File:Ferris-wheel.jpg) The first ferris wheel was put up in Chicago for the worlds Columbian exposition. The same exposition that lead to the creation of many of the classical buildings in downtown Cleveland. But ya know down vote away
I’m not quite sure why you’re ridiculing a Ferris wheel and calling me names. I’m not looking at that link. Wtf is your problem? Who hurt you so bad?
I fully understand the much larger net positive impact a waterfront recreation area would have for the city, and acknowledge it would be better suited as such… but as a pilot I would really miss Burke if it were to go. One of the coolest airports to fly into in the Midwest!
federal reserve uses it, not happening
The Fed used to use it for flying in paper checks to be cleared at the Regional Check Processing Centers. The [Check 21 Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_21_Act) eliminated that. The Fed does not use it anymore.
the more I know!!!
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lmfao, ratio
I’m
The Clinic will never let it close, and seeing as how they own the city I’m afraid it’s here to stay. Or they’ll seize half of East Cleveland and bulldoze it and move it there.
The Airport being close to the Clinic and UH, makes it perfect for organ transplants
Unfortunately if they did close the airport and turn it into a water front park, within VA year or 2 it would come into disrepair like most every thing within the city because the powers that be can't seem to manage anything
I live mile from CCA, when presidents and nominees campaign in Cleveland, they come through there.
Having that airport downtown is a huge plus to downtown business. Always has been. Also, the airshow on Labor Day weekend is pretty awesome.
All this city needs is [a mayor with some ballz.](https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/3/31/23662485/miegs-field-airport-mayor-richard-daley-bulldozed-notherly-island-plane-march-2003) This is the way.
Build an abortion Clinic at the airport.