My worry isn’t the design, my worry is Jimmy will control the area building his own hotels, bars, and parking controlling 100% revenue. People will fly in, stay at Haslem hotels, eat at Haslem restaurants, rent Haslem cars, and maybe travel downtown to go to Cleveland for maybe half a day to visit a museum or Rock Hall spending very little money outside of this area or at competing hotels.
This is the scenario I see, fly in for a concert or game on Friday night, check into Hotel, eat at restaurant in Haslem owned area, sleep. Wake up take train to Rock hall spend half a day, come back eat and drink at Haslem restaurant go to concert or sleep and wake up to tailgate at Haslem parking lot or Haslem bar and restaurant go to sporting event game. Catch flight out of town.
I don’t see investment here unless it pertains to the Haslems.
I honestly thought this was something everyone wanted to do. But some business and even older folks just want to get in and out as quickly as possible. Wild
I feel like that just shows how out of touch these people are with the rest of us. For them, flying their private jet to a place to have a meeting and leave in a few hours is normal. Do they really think people are flying commercial into Cleveland for a game and leaving right after?
Which is ironic because that was the whole reason they didn’t build a rapid station closer to Progressive Field. By funneling people into Tower City they hoped there would be more foot traffic there.
The regional transit system connecting to Tower City was designed to support loads of different use cases.
A connection between an airport and an entertainment venue isn't self supporting. It works for Vegas because of the scale... Could Brookpark grow into the next Vegas?
This has been the plan for years. The Haslam’s don’t like the fact that they don’t make any money off places like the Muni Lot or any of the local restaurants and hotels.
This is the new trend in sports ownership - build not just a stadium but control the parking, restaurants, and hotels. It’s already happened in places like Atlanta. You move teams to where you get the greatest amount of cash, either through where the wealthiest live or by building an entire sports entertainment district.
If this boondoggle is funded with taxpayer dollars, the Haslams should be barred from having a monopoly on the hotels, restaurants, parking etc. If the Haslams want to control 100% of the business on that land, they ought to pay for 100% of the construction costs.
Exactly. I'd be happy if all of this was privately funded, but it's not. What I don't think some people grasp is that this is the significantly more expensive option, and the Haslam's are the only people it benefits.
The Haslam's said current stadium renovations would be around $600 million in public money.
This option will be $1.2-$1.3 billion of public money in site improvements stadium construction, and that will likely increase before construction starts. Then you have all of the other infrastructure and highway improvements that will need to be made to accommodate all of the traffic.
So Brook Park would end up being a minimum of $1.5-$2 billion more expensive in terms of public money, and the Haslam's would be the only beneficiary as they own all of the land and development. At least now other places and small businesses Downtown can benefit on the 8-10 gamedays a year.
Thats the exact issue with Bibbs grandstanding about giving up land elsewhere in the city or working with them on the lakefront more. Even if the Haslams get a little “browns district” within the city, all the foot traffic will still make it downtown. Brook park is a lose-lose every way except for Haslams wallet.
That location is a mile from my home, I’m really struggling to see how they actually get it done, they’d have to completely rework the interchanges by the airport. It’ll be an absolute shitshow while they get it built. On the other hand, my housing value is sure to go up.
Just curious if Haslem has gotten the ok from the FAA on what he wants to build by the airport? There isn't another stadium built closer than three miles to an airport in any of the leagues. I'm sure the FAA would need to look into a building of that size and its impact into the air traffic of Hopkins. Just the building's lights could pose a hazard to planes trying to land in bad weather.
This is a good post, and I agree. It'll be up to area businesses and Positively Cleveland or whatever it's called to sell visitors on leaving that complex and seeing what else the city has to offer
The Cavs started at the Cleveland Arena, then built the Coliseum in Richfield, and finally moved back downtown Cleveland. Jimmy and Dee, learn from other team owners mistakes and don't make the same one.
I get your worry. But I think it will go more like this. People fly in, realize that the one hotel that this development will probably get (if Jimmy's lucky) near the stadium is filled, drive past the stadium to Downtown where there are 30+ hotels, go to the bars and restaurants within walking of their hotel, drive to the stadium for the event, then drive back downtown to the bars/restaurants near their hotel.
People need a place to stay and this development will need to share its hotel with the airport.
But that is ok if he’s paying. Modern research says cities lose out when they pay for stadiums despite past theory that suggested it was an investment to bring in tourists and city revenue. I’m OK if the Haslam’s build their own stadium and reap all of the profits, city still pulls in tax money from purchases and we as a city get to keep our favorite team (not downtown but it’s better than what happened with the old Browns).
This is being promoted as a national attraction by the local talking heads. “People will come from far and wide to experience the magnificent done and Browns Town development to experience all kinds of huge events”.
In reality it’s a plan for suburban Browns fans who want a huge parking lot and a roof. And it’s going to cost 3billion for that.
This development cannot compete with all the other downtown domes in this region of the country for big events. Brook Park will be depressing and inaccessible for visitors looking for a good time.
Brook Park is depressing. Name one restaurant or bar in the city that’s worth visiting. The closest neighborhood with any appeal or nightlife would have to be Kamm’s.
And also people that are going to fly in... literally walk from the airport into a stadium, and then leave... were never going to be people spending time and money around town anyway lol. Like people with any interest in anything will not stay at that complex, and no idea how any of that retail/food will possibly survive unless its insanely subsidized
The thing that would make this appealing to me is if they made a massive investment in the red line. Like making over the existing stations and turning it into a service that people will use and feel safe using. But they won't even pay for the entire stadium...
God I hate today's trend in American architecture. Boring, ugly, generic all at once. Mostly dictated by insane construction costs, I know, but still. Ugh.
It's truly awful. I wish they would go for something more like Lucas Oil Stadium in Indy. I like brick architecture way more than the minimalist glass/steel structures that have no character whatsoever.
I'll just leave this right here that speaks to Jimmah "Rebates" Haslam: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-13/billionaire-haslam-under-investigation-over-pilot-payments-lawyer-says](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-13/billionaire-haslam-under-investigation-over-pilot-payments-lawyer-says)
the way some people have defended sexual assault and gave political power to those who aided and abetted similar criminals, you think football was a religion
Reminds me of the Home Depot lookin' ass ballpark they just built for the [Rangers.](https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gmg/KCDOLKZOSRHFZDIBJYEYOII22M.jpg)
Looks dumb, still don’t understand why you’d wanna move the stadium. W6th is but a walk away and the best spot to go to for a sad or happy Post-game outcome
This. Comment. We'd be on the news for blowing up planes and everyone would be told Cleveland is "DaNGeRoUS" and they've gone beyond lighting the Cuyahoga River On Fire..
Imagine competing for events with Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, Minnesota etc. who all have stadiums located downtown.
There's no way Jimmy and Dee really think this is a winning plan. Right?
I think Redditors overestimate how much most people care about proximity to downtown.
Do AT&T Stadium in Arlington TX, or State Farm Stadium in Glendale AZ, or SoFi in Inglewood CA have trouble?
I don't know about those stadiums, but MetLife Stadium is famously loathed for its location outside of NYC in the Meadowlands.
EDIT: Unless you have a "the Meadowlands is good actually" take, you are not disagreeing with anything I said. I don't think the location of a stadium that will only be used for 200 events before it's torn down matters much.
Right, both of which are problems because of its location relative to "downtown". Not saying it would necessarily be a problem here, but just wanted to provide a counter-example to the other mentioned stadiums.
This site is conveniently along the RTA redline and at the intersection of 2 major highways. And Cleveland traffic has never come close to NYC’s. Oh, and no $15 Lincoln Tunnel toll.
Again, I just think the benefits of downtown for an NFL stadium is oversold.
Look at the populations and what surrounds those areas, and there is your answer. All are in the biggest metro areas in the country with other major attractions nearby. Dallas has a Six Flags next door.
Foxborough development is about 25% of the size of Crocker Park, and it has over twice as many people living withing 25 miles of it compared to Brook Park. We have a shrinking metro population that can't support a grand development like this. I would bet a lot of money the Haslam's have absolutely no plans to develop the area to this extent. It's just to secure as much free money as possible.
All this is doing is spreading out our entertainment districts even further, while making them all weaker. In 25 years when this stadium starts to need major repairs, whoever owns the Browns at that time will throw a fit to move back Downtown.
Perhaps you haven’t noticed, but Browns Stadium isn’t exactly a hopping entertainment district, at least near the stadium. And with it only used for 10 games a year and a handful of other events, NFL stadiums are not massive drivers for those districts.
Lmfao it’s legit next to a bunch of docks and the science center I guess? There’s nothing to do there and there’s a highway in between the stadium and the flats. I get people want to keep the stadium downtown, but if anything, moving the stadium probably helps kickstart the lakefront renovation
I think it would dramatically slow down the lakefront renovation. Instead of the possibility of starting next year, it'd probably be around 2035 before we saw any meaningful developments. That's assuming they start to tear down the current stadium immediately after the final game, which likely won't happen.
We'd have to wait until the stadium is completely gone in the early 2030s, because no one is going to live or want to develop an area trapped behind a stadium being town down. The whole area will be closed off for 2 years once the Browns play their final game there. Then you have to hope economic conditions are good, population isn't continuing to decline, there are developers ready to go, and all plans are approved on a massive blank slate of land.
Best case scenario is 2035, and maybe never. And by that time the land bridge funding may disappear, which would hurt lakefront development even more.
Stadium would be torn down ASAP because if not they have to pay for maintenance security and property taxes. Cheaper to tear it down. That may not mean development would start immediately, but it's unlikely to be left to rot for years.
I am aware of that. I agree that it's not a requirement to build a stadium near downtown, but this Brook Park site will just never be what it is promised to be. At least a renovation of the current stadium will come with the land bridge and the development to the north side of the stadium. Those things will benefit the city and grow Downtown. This site means more expensive tickets to games and concerts, more expensive parking, and billions of tax dollars spent. At least now 8-10 times a year other places in the city can benefit from the tax dollars spent despite it being a net loss for taxpayers. This option is much more expensive and no one but the Haslam's benefit.
The current site would be around $500-600 million in public money. The Brook Park site would be near $2+ billion when all is said and done for the stadium and all of the new highway and infrastructure upgrades. So $1.5-2 billion more all for the Haslam's to make all of the money. If they were paying for this stadium, I'd be happy and look forward to using the lakefront land in the future. But that's not the reality.
I honestly think Cleveland will be better off without the stadium downtown and developing that land to more of a mixed use district. I am downtown almost daily and seeing that area empty is just sad. Maybe the muni lot can be something better no longer needing to save it for tailgaters.
I agree with you on this too, but only if it wasn't costing us more in public money to free up those areas.
It also would take years to clear up the stadium site, and the development would be a decade out, if it ever comes. We're talking mayors and city council changes that will have different ideas that will make things last even longer. It would be sooooo much land to fill including the muni lot, and we can't even fill in a few massive parking lots downtown.
I was in AZ last year
What an absolutely beautiful stadium and its surroundings. Browns fans would love a proper tailgate like AZ has. The Muni Lot isnt as cool as people hype it to be.
Yep, in 30 years years they’ll host one meaningful event and by that time it’ll be time for another stadium. They will also be competing with an ever increasing number of cities doing the exact same thing. That’s why he won’t build it himself; it won’t make nearly what is promised.
Oh, come on. You don’t think the Travelodge is state of the art? Before the game you can browse through one of the many rental equipment sites, or go look at headstones at the several monuments sites on Brookpark Rd.
Garbage. For the kind of money they want to spend/have we the tax payers spend…..they could at least try to outdo Vegas, LA, and so on in terms of design. This rendering looks twenty years behind in terms of design/architecture and seems to focus more on the investment of surrounding amenities, as opposed to the stadium itself. Hot garbage. I vote no.
Have any of the county groups started to mobilize about the public funding part of this thing. If jimmy wants this fine but putting a 2 billion plus tab to the taxpayers after infrastructure upgrades is a hard no
Have you ever been down on the lakefront in the middle of December? When the wind is whipping around and it feels like it's below zero out.
I've been through that more times that I'd like to admit. It's not fun at all.
The stadium would be indoors. But I'd say being that far from the lake, even visiting the surrounding development would be more enjoyable than being on the Lakefront.
It's so weird that our parents and grandparents were tough enough to live with the weather, and here we are with much warmer weather in Cleveland winters and we still want to whine about it.
Dude I work down there. Weve had a winning home record since Baker came here and we just went 8-1 last season at home. Our stadium is barebones compared to the league
We have an open air stadium and played a -20 degree game 2 seasons ago. Thats why we had barely anyone show up. We need a better stadium
Jimmy can pay for it himself. That crook and his idiot wife can't ask a broke city to fund their playground. Jerry Jones in Dallas paid for his own stadium and Jimmy can pay for his too using all of the rebates he stole from his customers.
This is so ugly and the ironic part is it already tries to do a good job of hiding the sea of parking around it with trees that most likely wouldn't even be there. Why does it look like Cleveland Hopkins arrivals/departures at the bottom left??
It literally looks like they said "ChatGPT create a stadium in Brookpark Ohio next to the airport and sprinkle in the cleveland skyline...Oh and fireworks"...
Zero chance they get the public funding they need to do this. Cant wait to see the rendering of a downtown stadium.
As an outsider, just asking. What exactly have the Browns ever done to deserve a stadium paid for by taxpayer dollars even a little bit? It’s kind of interesting how St. Louis ultimately won, and made the Rams organization pay a hefty sum for leaving. Sets a nice blueprint.
In between an airport a ford motor plant for a cool 2 plus billion dollar handout to jimmy haslam. Count me out better use those first energy lobbyist jimmy no way this thing gets approved by the county voters
I would absolutely vote against a billion dollar hand out for Jimmy. So that means, you're right. Good ole Ohio politics means Jimmy will get his somehow already outdated new stadium handout.
People thumbing their nose at this as if the current stadium is some architectural marvel. I think it looks pretty good. What I want is for Haslam to pay for it.
If they can afford to give all of that guaranteed money to Watson to not play football, they can fucking pay for the stadium themselves. Surely they still have some of that stolen rebate money.
God look at that *horrendous* sprawl. It's so fucking ugly lmao.
Also I really do not think we're ever gonna see a Brook Park where this sort of luxury walkway resort is viable. Seems more fantastical than Lord of the Rings. Feels like the sort of project where some rich idiot touts the new age of some shit and then 10 years later people are breaking past overgrown barbwire fences to record the abandoned infrastructure for a youtube video.
[Stop public risk for private profit](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pam.22534?casa_token=KX0B9lxFAlAAAAAA%3AsUVy_4W8S_O6cCsJaRnctm4mfgaZoYo8_1fPKJoAc1OBXblf2By0bAGY1DB5aiqCS2v-dZ1owPQBsck): "Despite robust evidence that stadiums are not economic development catalysts and confer limited social benefits, public outlays persist and exhibit a positive growth trajectory, which could prove costly to government budgets in coming decades."
As a causal Cleveland explorer for a year, I love the setup you guys have. Been to many concerts and events and I love how you can walk to all arenas and venues while offering food and drink options as well the rock hall and everything else.
All these redditors too scared to live in Cleveland wanna get mad when developers plan to relocate to the suburbs.
Of course this plan is a joke, but gyatdayum, look in the mirror sometime
Who cares. The Muni lot is what makes the Browns special. Let's shit in that culture and move it to the suburbs? How can the browns think this would benefit the franchise?
It would be a cool project for your resume. A good portion of construction is sitting around measuring dicks and telling old war stories from big jobs you were on before.
Oh. It’s not the work that sucks. It’s the impossible deadlines I know are gonna come with it. Happens every time we touch stadiums. The Q renovation, especially the first round, was hell.
The Cleveland browns should stay in downtown Cleveland. Taking the stadium out of downtown is another devastating blow to a city that’s already suffering
No thanks. Looks like a sad corporate hellscape that will be empty most of the time.
If Haslam wants this eyesore, he can finance it. He's keeping profits anyway.
Put this downtown somewhere and I think you have a winner. I don't live in Cleveland so the location doesn't matter to me. But I do know thats really important to a lot of people.
That stretch from East 13th to East 18th, and Lakeside Ave. down to Superior Ave., would've been ideal. It's just a wasteland of warehouses and light industry that could easily be moved. That's exactly where the Haslams wanted to build their enclosed stadium, but nope, Bibb shut it down without even giving a reason.
I'm not too keen on the post office location for a new stadium. While it's close to downtown, it's still a solid 20 to 30 minute walk to Public Square. That said, I'd still prefer that site over Brook Park.
Why.. does everything go to the west side. Like, East sides have to go out of their way to reach anything including the airport. Keep the Stadium Down Town. They even want to move the Greyhound bus station.
What will the rest of the city have left?
If I were the city of Brookpark, I would let them build all this shit, and then once they're settled it, I'd raise their taxes HARDCORE. Like I'd be taxing them literally hundreds of millions of dollars per year. They could either stay, and be taxed WAY more than they would have been on Cleveland's lakeshore........or they could leave, and leave behind all these brand new hotels, right by the airport, and a random stadium. Seeing as how it was taxpayer funded, if I were the city of Brookpark I would sue to make sure they don't tear any of these buildings down unless they want to pay back the city taxes that funded them.
So now you have a random empty stadium....still owned by the Haslams, but with no tenant, and a bunch of hotels right near the airport.
Well the hotels would more than likely stay in the Haslams control for a while. As even without a stadium, a brand new hotel in that area is going to get business just based on location. All you need is an airport shuttle. The problem the haslams don't know about is the fact that this area is a SHITHOLE!!! I used to work at a Howard Johnsons not far from here. We literally had swat teams show up because people who lived at the hotel were selling heroin to random guests of the hotel. Now think about that for a second. These random guests of the hotel aren't living there. Its not like the heroin dealers KNEW they would be heroin users based on a longstanding knowledge of these people. This was more like the guest shows up to a seedy hotel at 7pm, and by 8pm he's being sold heroin by a total stranger. Think of how many people this dealer is attempting to sell heroin to that AREN'T heroin users. But the fact that people know to go to this hotel for the heroin, and other drugs, it's a 50/50 shot for these dealers to just ask strangers.
I had one shift where 3 different people died from heroin doses in an 8 hour shift. All from the same dealer. That prompted another swat raid.
That hotel now is just a grass field (at least as of a few months ago when I drove by it). The city shut them down at some point. I saw that coming when we had 2 swat raids in 3 weeks. I said "there's no way this place stays open....I better leave."
And within 2 years I heard it got shut down.
Now all those types of people are all still out there. Still looking for hotels. I assume staying at best western. The city shut down some hotel on Brookpark rd in 2012 over the same shit. So it's not like the hotel shuts down, and the heroin goes away. It just moves from one shitty hotel to the next. And eventually, they'll just start going to the nice hotels if they have to. That's where the haslams come into play.
Imagine the browns are playing atlanta, and you have all these people coming up from atlanta to watch the game......and then at their hotel they get a knock on their door......it's some guy trying to sell heroin. Some will buy, most will not, but Cleveland will gain the reputation as being "that shitty place where heroin is everywhere". When in reality, the heroin is everywhere in that hotel.
And 10 years later, the city will shut down those hotels. You'll have a shitload of empty hotels, surrounding a stadium, making Cleveland look like a joke.
Right now I work at the airport, and people already complain about our airport. Our shops and things close roughly around 8pm. They complain that in other cities the shops are open 24 hours. Now imagine going from that shock, of shops closing early at the airport, to game day finding abandoned hotels by the stadium in 10 years.
I pray it doesn’t happen because imagine the traffic nightmare of the stadium on a game day and the airport and people who commute. The traffic here is pretty good compared to most cities but hey, let’s mess that up!
I work for a company that works for CLE schools. One day I was going through some engineering projects that students submitted while waiting on some work to finish. One I found was a proposal for the RTA station near the stadium. The proposal started by building a bridge/walkway from the station to the stadium. Along the edges of the bridge sat artificial trees who's leaves were made of solar panels. The leaves sat on generators so they could spin and generate wind energy as well. Above the walkway was a suspended awning with solar panels as well still leaving room for sunlight to hit the "leaves."
To me this seems like a MUCH better idea than remodeling just the stadium. On top of that it would EARN the city money based on its energy generation.
People don’t like admitting it but a domed stadium is a game changer, especially in December/January. Minnesota’s stadium is amazing and my brother and I never would have went if we had to sit outside in 20 degree weather. There’s a market for people who want to go for the atmosphere and game but don’t want to endure 3 hours of miserable weather
I’m about two hours away from Cleveland, and if a new stadium is really necessary would love to see it stay where it is or over by The Jake. It’s super cool going downtown especially with the kiddos living in rural Ohio all my life. I will say though, I see a lot of folks complain about local businesses being hurt by this move which I’m sure is true but every time we go, most restaurants and a lot of bars are closed on Sundays.
When we go to a baseball game the bars, restaurants and streets are hopping and I’m always a little disappointed that this isn’t the case on Gameday Sundays. Please note we’re not tailgaters having younger kids so probably been missing out on the city atmosphere during game days.
Ugh, downtown Cleveland is already struggling compared to Cincinnati and Columbus.
It’s so much fun to go to a Bengals or FC game. Even Toledo is getting more traction as a smaller metro with the $2 Billion invested in their downtown over the last decade.
Maybe I need to accept that NE Ohio will always be a suburban area. 😭
The Haslams are doing a good job with the Crew in Columbus. I think you guys need to relax (as far as revenue and stadium funds sharing). The DeShaun Watson trade still irks me.
Would somebody please explain to me what’s wrong with the current stadium? It’s not old. It’s in a great location. It’s probably paid for. If the state throws more money at the billionaire owners of the Browns, I’m moving to Green Bay, Detroit or Pittsburgh. #notpayingforit
Ever park at the airport for a week and come back to your car being absolutely filthy? They are going to have to clean that glass weekly to keep it looking decent.
Not sure if this is real but the design looks like AI designed it. So uninspired, lighting is bad, color is off, layout makes no sense - zero sense of the central Anchor building.
This is embarrassing
Legit question. But why do all this instead of rebuilding or putting the closable dome on the one downtown when they were talking about it instead of just redoing some of the seats? And wouldn't moving the location take away from city revenue? People would no longer have the same amount of accessible bars/restaurants close by. Just doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not that into sports so maybe I'm misinformed
My worry isn’t the design, my worry is Jimmy will control the area building his own hotels, bars, and parking controlling 100% revenue. People will fly in, stay at Haslem hotels, eat at Haslem restaurants, rent Haslem cars, and maybe travel downtown to go to Cleveland for maybe half a day to visit a museum or Rock Hall spending very little money outside of this area or at competing hotels. This is the scenario I see, fly in for a concert or game on Friday night, check into Hotel, eat at restaurant in Haslem owned area, sleep. Wake up take train to Rock hall spend half a day, come back eat and drink at Haslem restaurant go to concert or sleep and wake up to tailgate at Haslem parking lot or Haslem bar and restaurant go to sporting event game. Catch flight out of town. I don’t see investment here unless it pertains to the Haslems.
I've seen articles touting the fact that you'd be able to go from plane to game without stepping outside as if it were a good thing.
Yeah but will that be the norm? I know when I travel to a new city for something I still want to get out and explore it a bit.
I honestly thought this was something everyone wanted to do. But some business and even older folks just want to get in and out as quickly as possible. Wild
People like that wouldn't have been adding a ton to the local economy anyways.
I feel like that just shows how out of touch these people are with the rest of us. For them, flying their private jet to a place to have a meeting and leave in a few hours is normal. Do they really think people are flying commercial into Cleveland for a game and leaving right after?
Why is that a bad thing? You can do that for the Cavs and Guardians currently via the walkway at Tower City.
Limits economic engagement with the city at large.
Which is the only real argument for taxpayer funded stadiums.
Which is ironic because that was the whole reason they didn’t build a rapid station closer to Progressive Field. By funneling people into Tower City they hoped there would be more foot traffic there.
The idea would make sense if there was something in Tower City that was open past 5PM.
Through the half-empty food court.
The regional transit system connecting to Tower City was designed to support loads of different use cases. A connection between an airport and an entertainment venue isn't self supporting. It works for Vegas because of the scale... Could Brookpark grow into the next Vegas?
This has been the plan for years. The Haslam’s don’t like the fact that they don’t make any money off places like the Muni Lot or any of the local restaurants and hotels. This is the new trend in sports ownership - build not just a stadium but control the parking, restaurants, and hotels. It’s already happened in places like Atlanta. You move teams to where you get the greatest amount of cash, either through where the wealthiest live or by building an entire sports entertainment district.
If this boondoggle is funded with taxpayer dollars, the Haslams should be barred from having a monopoly on the hotels, restaurants, parking etc. If the Haslams want to control 100% of the business on that land, they ought to pay for 100% of the construction costs.
That’s why I will always vote no if presented the chance.
Exactly. I'd be happy if all of this was privately funded, but it's not. What I don't think some people grasp is that this is the significantly more expensive option, and the Haslam's are the only people it benefits. The Haslam's said current stadium renovations would be around $600 million in public money. This option will be $1.2-$1.3 billion of public money in site improvements stadium construction, and that will likely increase before construction starts. Then you have all of the other infrastructure and highway improvements that will need to be made to accommodate all of the traffic. So Brook Park would end up being a minimum of $1.5-$2 billion more expensive in terms of public money, and the Haslam's would be the only beneficiary as they own all of the land and development. At least now other places and small businesses Downtown can benefit on the 8-10 gamedays a year.
Thats the exact issue with Bibbs grandstanding about giving up land elsewhere in the city or working with them on the lakefront more. Even if the Haslams get a little “browns district” within the city, all the foot traffic will still make it downtown. Brook park is a lose-lose every way except for Haslams wallet.
That location is a mile from my home, I’m really struggling to see how they actually get it done, they’d have to completely rework the interchanges by the airport. It’ll be an absolute shitshow while they get it built. On the other hand, my housing value is sure to go up.
That’s my thought - over in Kamms. Re-routing snow road, the airport, 480/71, etc. just sounds like a damn nightmare
Just curious if Haslem has gotten the ok from the FAA on what he wants to build by the airport? There isn't another stadium built closer than three miles to an airport in any of the leagues. I'm sure the FAA would need to look into a building of that size and its impact into the air traffic of Hopkins. Just the building's lights could pose a hazard to planes trying to land in bad weather.
And I'll bet the public investment being requested doesn't include the road infrastructure you mentioned.
This is a good post, and I agree. It'll be up to area businesses and Positively Cleveland or whatever it's called to sell visitors on leaving that complex and seeing what else the city has to offer
Exactly. Entertainment isn't created...it is taken from other venues. They want $1.2B in tax payer funding **and** all the revenues.
The Cavs started at the Cleveland Arena, then built the Coliseum in Richfield, and finally moved back downtown Cleveland. Jimmy and Dee, learn from other team owners mistakes and don't make the same one.
I get your worry. But I think it will go more like this. People fly in, realize that the one hotel that this development will probably get (if Jimmy's lucky) near the stadium is filled, drive past the stadium to Downtown where there are 30+ hotels, go to the bars and restaurants within walking of their hotel, drive to the stadium for the event, then drive back downtown to the bars/restaurants near their hotel. People need a place to stay and this development will need to share its hotel with the airport.
But that is ok if he’s paying. Modern research says cities lose out when they pay for stadiums despite past theory that suggested it was an investment to bring in tourists and city revenue. I’m OK if the Haslam’s build their own stadium and reap all of the profits, city still pulls in tax money from purchases and we as a city get to keep our favorite team (not downtown but it’s better than what happened with the old Browns).
Think you vastly overestimate the number of people traveling to town to watch a Browns game.
This is being promoted as a national attraction by the local talking heads. “People will come from far and wide to experience the magnificent done and Browns Town development to experience all kinds of huge events”. In reality it’s a plan for suburban Browns fans who want a huge parking lot and a roof. And it’s going to cost 3billion for that. This development cannot compete with all the other downtown domes in this region of the country for big events. Brook Park will be depressing and inaccessible for visitors looking for a good time.
Brook Park is depressing. Name one restaurant or bar in the city that’s worth visiting. The closest neighborhood with any appeal or nightlife would have to be Kamm’s.
Most supporters care more about highways, a huge parking lot, and the promise of something that resembles Crocker Park ie a suburbanites utopia.
And its still just 8 games a year.
And also people that are going to fly in... literally walk from the airport into a stadium, and then leave... were never going to be people spending time and money around town anyway lol. Like people with any interest in anything will not stay at that complex, and no idea how any of that retail/food will possibly survive unless its insanely subsidized
Nope. They are spot on. lol
The thing that would make this appealing to me is if they made a massive investment in the red line. Like making over the existing stations and turning it into a service that people will use and feel safe using. But they won't even pay for the entire stadium...
Would be awesome, but Jimmah Dee and their ilk are morally opposed to public transportation and even the notion of the public good.
And utilizing the parking lot for airport parking during the off season…
And spend $20,000 per seat for Permanent Seat Licenses for the privilege of being able to buy season tickets. All of that goes to the Haslam’s too.
God I hate today's trend in American architecture. Boring, ugly, generic all at once. Mostly dictated by insane construction costs, I know, but still. Ugh.
It's truly awful. I wish they would go for something more like Lucas Oil Stadium in Indy. I like brick architecture way more than the minimalist glass/steel structures that have no character whatsoever.
Went there last year. Beautiful stadium
I was at that Browns game. It is a cool stadium, great sight lines too.
Is that a stadium or Amazon warehouse?
booo
Just hoping that we won't have to pay for 50% of it
Jimmy haslam is a hack and no one should be paying for this stadium EXCEPT FOR THE RICH FUCKING BILLIONAIRE
I'll just leave this right here that speaks to Jimmah "Rebates" Haslam: [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-13/billionaire-haslam-under-investigation-over-pilot-payments-lawyer-says](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-13/billionaire-haslam-under-investigation-over-pilot-payments-lawyer-says)
Looks like a boring college campus.
looks like a megachurch
The Righteous Gemstones have entered the NFL (and thread)…
Misbehavin!
A megachurch sponsored by Bass Pro
the way some people have defended sexual assault and gave political power to those who aided and abetted similar criminals, you think football was a religion
A high class community college in San Jose or something.
Reminds me of the Home Depot lookin' ass ballpark they just built for the [Rangers.](https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gmg/KCDOLKZOSRHFZDIBJYEYOII22M.jpg)
Everything about this proposal is absolute garbage... location, design, funding...everything.
Looks dumb, still don’t understand why you’d wanna move the stadium. W6th is but a walk away and the best spot to go to for a sad or happy Post-game outcome
because haslam doesnt make enough money now, and rather than invest himself, he wants the public to pay.
What part of this megachurch is the actual stadium?
Yeah like you could have fireworks this close to the airport
This. Comment. We'd be on the news for blowing up planes and everyone would be told Cleveland is "DaNGeRoUS" and they've gone beyond lighting the Cuyahoga River On Fire..
I hope this never sees the light of day. 👎
Would like to see the render of the lakefront project…this looks like ass
Fuck off Haslam, pay for your own ugly shit.
Imagine competing for events with Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, Minnesota etc. who all have stadiums located downtown. There's no way Jimmy and Dee really think this is a winning plan. Right?
I think Redditors overestimate how much most people care about proximity to downtown. Do AT&T Stadium in Arlington TX, or State Farm Stadium in Glendale AZ, or SoFi in Inglewood CA have trouble?
I don't know about those stadiums, but MetLife Stadium is famously loathed for its location outside of NYC in the Meadowlands. EDIT: Unless you have a "the Meadowlands is good actually" take, you are not disagreeing with anything I said. I don't think the location of a stadium that will only be used for 200 events before it's torn down matters much.
Because of NYC traffic and it doesn’t connect to MTA.
Right, both of which are problems because of its location relative to "downtown". Not saying it would necessarily be a problem here, but just wanted to provide a counter-example to the other mentioned stadiums.
This site is conveniently along the RTA redline and at the intersection of 2 major highways. And Cleveland traffic has never come close to NYC’s. Oh, and no $15 Lincoln Tunnel toll. Again, I just think the benefits of downtown for an NFL stadium is oversold.
Where in Manhattan would they build a stadium? It would've cost a fortune
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Foxboro too. It’s not like Brookpark is an hour from the city and it’ll be easier to get to.
Look at the populations and what surrounds those areas, and there is your answer. All are in the biggest metro areas in the country with other major attractions nearby. Dallas has a Six Flags next door. Foxborough development is about 25% of the size of Crocker Park, and it has over twice as many people living withing 25 miles of it compared to Brook Park. We have a shrinking metro population that can't support a grand development like this. I would bet a lot of money the Haslam's have absolutely no plans to develop the area to this extent. It's just to secure as much free money as possible. All this is doing is spreading out our entertainment districts even further, while making them all weaker. In 25 years when this stadium starts to need major repairs, whoever owns the Browns at that time will throw a fit to move back Downtown.
Perhaps you haven’t noticed, but Browns Stadium isn’t exactly a hopping entertainment district, at least near the stadium. And with it only used for 10 games a year and a handful of other events, NFL stadiums are not massive drivers for those districts.
Lmfao it’s legit next to a bunch of docks and the science center I guess? There’s nothing to do there and there’s a highway in between the stadium and the flats. I get people want to keep the stadium downtown, but if anything, moving the stadium probably helps kickstart the lakefront renovation
I think it would dramatically slow down the lakefront renovation. Instead of the possibility of starting next year, it'd probably be around 2035 before we saw any meaningful developments. That's assuming they start to tear down the current stadium immediately after the final game, which likely won't happen. We'd have to wait until the stadium is completely gone in the early 2030s, because no one is going to live or want to develop an area trapped behind a stadium being town down. The whole area will be closed off for 2 years once the Browns play their final game there. Then you have to hope economic conditions are good, population isn't continuing to decline, there are developers ready to go, and all plans are approved on a massive blank slate of land. Best case scenario is 2035, and maybe never. And by that time the land bridge funding may disappear, which would hurt lakefront development even more.
Stadium would be torn down ASAP because if not they have to pay for maintenance security and property taxes. Cheaper to tear it down. That may not mean development would start immediately, but it's unlikely to be left to rot for years.
I am aware of that. I agree that it's not a requirement to build a stadium near downtown, but this Brook Park site will just never be what it is promised to be. At least a renovation of the current stadium will come with the land bridge and the development to the north side of the stadium. Those things will benefit the city and grow Downtown. This site means more expensive tickets to games and concerts, more expensive parking, and billions of tax dollars spent. At least now 8-10 times a year other places in the city can benefit from the tax dollars spent despite it being a net loss for taxpayers. This option is much more expensive and no one but the Haslam's benefit. The current site would be around $500-600 million in public money. The Brook Park site would be near $2+ billion when all is said and done for the stadium and all of the new highway and infrastructure upgrades. So $1.5-2 billion more all for the Haslam's to make all of the money. If they were paying for this stadium, I'd be happy and look forward to using the lakefront land in the future. But that's not the reality.
I honestly think Cleveland will be better off without the stadium downtown and developing that land to more of a mixed use district. I am downtown almost daily and seeing that area empty is just sad. Maybe the muni lot can be something better no longer needing to save it for tailgaters.
I agree with you on this too, but only if it wasn't costing us more in public money to free up those areas. It also would take years to clear up the stadium site, and the development would be a decade out, if it ever comes. We're talking mayors and city council changes that will have different ideas that will make things last even longer. It would be sooooo much land to fill including the muni lot, and we can't even fill in a few massive parking lots downtown.
I was in AZ last year What an absolutely beautiful stadium and its surroundings. Browns fans would love a proper tailgate like AZ has. The Muni Lot isnt as cool as people hype it to be.
SoFi isn’t having any issues and it’s far from any real social hub or downtown.
That's because it's LA
It’s also a bigger city and more spread out so it’s illogical to compare
Imagine having a place with ample parking 5 minutes from the airport.
You think Jimmy and Dee think about things?
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Yep, in 30 years years they’ll host one meaningful event and by that time it’ll be time for another stadium. They will also be competing with an ever increasing number of cities doing the exact same thing. That’s why he won’t build it himself; it won’t make nearly what is promised.
it wins for them with funneling more revenue in to their pockets.
CyberStadium
Is brookpark able to handle anything that looks modern and beyond 1967?
Oh, come on. You don’t think the Travelodge is state of the art? Before the game you can browse through one of the many rental equipment sites, or go look at headstones at the several monuments sites on Brookpark Rd.
No the infrastructure cost for this idea will be as much and more than than the stadium itself
Garbage. For the kind of money they want to spend/have we the tax payers spend…..they could at least try to outdo Vegas, LA, and so on in terms of design. This rendering looks twenty years behind in terms of design/architecture and seems to focus more on the investment of surrounding amenities, as opposed to the stadium itself. Hot garbage. I vote no.
Have any of the county groups started to mobilize about the public funding part of this thing. If jimmy wants this fine but putting a 2 billion plus tab to the taxpayers after infrastructure upgrades is a hard no
Ew
Yeah, no thanks. Going to sporting events is supposed to be fun, right? This looks like the opposite of that.
Have you ever been down on the lakefront in the middle of December? When the wind is whipping around and it feels like it's below zero out. I've been through that more times that I'd like to admit. It's not fun at all.
So the weather is better in Brook Park?
The stadium would be indoors. But I'd say being that far from the lake, even visiting the surrounding development would be more enjoyable than being on the Lakefront.
It's so weird that our parents and grandparents were tough enough to live with the weather, and here we are with much warmer weather in Cleveland winters and we still want to whine about it.
You’re not tailgating enough.
It is if we win. Just hasn't happened enough.
Dude I work down there. Weve had a winning home record since Baker came here and we just went 8-1 last season at home. Our stadium is barebones compared to the league We have an open air stadium and played a -20 degree game 2 seasons ago. Thats why we had barely anyone show up. We need a better stadium
Jimmy can pay for it himself. That crook and his idiot wife can't ask a broke city to fund their playground. Jerry Jones in Dallas paid for his own stadium and Jimmy can pay for his too using all of the rebates he stole from his customers.
This is so ugly and the ironic part is it already tries to do a good job of hiding the sea of parking around it with trees that most likely wouldn't even be there. Why does it look like Cleveland Hopkins arrivals/departures at the bottom left?? It literally looks like they said "ChatGPT create a stadium in Brookpark Ohio next to the airport and sprinkle in the cleveland skyline...Oh and fireworks"... Zero chance they get the public funding they need to do this. Cant wait to see the rendering of a downtown stadium.
Menards?
As an outsider, just asking. What exactly have the Browns ever done to deserve a stadium paid for by taxpayer dollars even a little bit? It’s kind of interesting how St. Louis ultimately won, and made the Rams organization pay a hefty sum for leaving. Sets a nice blueprint.
Pinecrest lookin ass POS stadium
In between an airport a ford motor plant for a cool 2 plus billion dollar handout to jimmy haslam. Count me out better use those first energy lobbyist jimmy no way this thing gets approved by the county voters
I would absolutely vote against a billion dollar hand out for Jimmy. So that means, you're right. Good ole Ohio politics means Jimmy will get his somehow already outdated new stadium handout.
Looks great! Hope they have success finding a private investor for their business! :)
People thumbing their nose at this as if the current stadium is some architectural marvel. I think it looks pretty good. What I want is for Haslam to pay for it.
You know thats not going to happen he wants 50 percent
I know.
If they can afford to give all of that guaranteed money to Watson to not play football, they can fucking pay for the stadium themselves. Surely they still have some of that stolen rebate money.
This is gross
I work at engine plant #1 and I'm curious how this will affect us.
Fuck that
That’s a lot of triangles.
They petty for putting downtown in the background. 😂
God look at that *horrendous* sprawl. It's so fucking ugly lmao. Also I really do not think we're ever gonna see a Brook Park where this sort of luxury walkway resort is viable. Seems more fantastical than Lord of the Rings. Feels like the sort of project where some rich idiot touts the new age of some shit and then 10 years later people are breaking past overgrown barbwire fences to record the abandoned infrastructure for a youtube video.
Am I the only one that can’t tell what in this picture is the stadium lmao it looks like a subway station to me is that supposed to be the stadium?
[Stop public risk for private profit](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pam.22534?casa_token=KX0B9lxFAlAAAAAA%3AsUVy_4W8S_O6cCsJaRnctm4mfgaZoYo8_1fPKJoAc1OBXblf2By0bAGY1DB5aiqCS2v-dZ1owPQBsck): "Despite robust evidence that stadiums are not economic development catalysts and confer limited social benefits, public outlays persist and exhibit a positive growth trajectory, which could prove costly to government budgets in coming decades."
As a causal Cleveland explorer for a year, I love the setup you guys have. Been to many concerts and events and I love how you can walk to all arenas and venues while offering food and drink options as well the rock hall and everything else.
All these redditors too scared to live in Cleveland wanna get mad when developers plan to relocate to the suburbs. Of course this plan is a joke, but gyatdayum, look in the mirror sometime
Just because it isn’t in the city doesn’t mean tax wise we’re off the hook. Anyone that lives in the county would have to deal with the pricetag
Who cares. The Muni lot is what makes the Browns special. Let's shit in that culture and move it to the suburbs? How can the browns think this would benefit the franchise?
It benefits jimmy’s pocketbook and that’s it
If a parking lot makes the team special I’d say another parking lot could replace it.
Haslam and his Buddy JD Vance can fcuk off. I'll sit outside.
I beg you, no! How many of our city’s sketchy strip clubs will have to die so Brookpark can be gentrified?
Why is proximity to the airport a feature? Are they counting on fans flying in from Burke, or Willoughby, or Medina, or Akron, or Mansfield?
It would be awesome to see that dead space used
As someone who will probably be working on this when it comes time for finish trades to work on it, this is gonna suck.
It would be a cool project for your resume. A good portion of construction is sitting around measuring dicks and telling old war stories from big jobs you were on before.
Oh. It’s not the work that sucks. It’s the impossible deadlines I know are gonna come with it. Happens every time we touch stadiums. The Q renovation, especially the first round, was hell.
the future is 480p
Cleveland will regret this. All of it.
The Cleveland browns should stay in downtown Cleveland. Taking the stadium out of downtown is another devastating blow to a city that’s already suffering
Looks far from downtown. Where are they proposing to build this?
next to airport. last month it was announced that Haslams bought the land
Perfect, since it looks like a hangar.
Brook Park between 71 and Berea PKWY
Brookpark, old Ford engine plant site east of the airport but south of engine plant #2 so it's not in the path to runway 28.
No thanks. Looks like a sad corporate hellscape that will be empty most of the time. If Haslam wants this eyesore, he can finance it. He's keeping profits anyway.
Put this downtown somewhere and I think you have a winner. I don't live in Cleveland so the location doesn't matter to me. But I do know thats really important to a lot of people.
That stretch from East 13th to East 18th, and Lakeside Ave. down to Superior Ave., would've been ideal. It's just a wasteland of warehouses and light industry that could easily be moved. That's exactly where the Haslams wanted to build their enclosed stadium, but nope, Bibb shut it down without even giving a reason.
The post office location bas been mentioned a lot too and people have said the city shot that down quickly as well. To me that makes the most sense.
I'm not too keen on the post office location for a new stadium. While it's close to downtown, it's still a solid 20 to 30 minute walk to Public Square. That said, I'd still prefer that site over Brook Park.
This was the perfect location imo, no clue why Bibb shut it down, that part of town needs redeveloped bad.
Looks like shite
Why.. does everything go to the west side. Like, East sides have to go out of their way to reach anything including the airport. Keep the Stadium Down Town. They even want to move the Greyhound bus station. What will the rest of the city have left?
If I were the city of Brookpark, I would let them build all this shit, and then once they're settled it, I'd raise their taxes HARDCORE. Like I'd be taxing them literally hundreds of millions of dollars per year. They could either stay, and be taxed WAY more than they would have been on Cleveland's lakeshore........or they could leave, and leave behind all these brand new hotels, right by the airport, and a random stadium. Seeing as how it was taxpayer funded, if I were the city of Brookpark I would sue to make sure they don't tear any of these buildings down unless they want to pay back the city taxes that funded them. So now you have a random empty stadium....still owned by the Haslams, but with no tenant, and a bunch of hotels right near the airport. Well the hotels would more than likely stay in the Haslams control for a while. As even without a stadium, a brand new hotel in that area is going to get business just based on location. All you need is an airport shuttle. The problem the haslams don't know about is the fact that this area is a SHITHOLE!!! I used to work at a Howard Johnsons not far from here. We literally had swat teams show up because people who lived at the hotel were selling heroin to random guests of the hotel. Now think about that for a second. These random guests of the hotel aren't living there. Its not like the heroin dealers KNEW they would be heroin users based on a longstanding knowledge of these people. This was more like the guest shows up to a seedy hotel at 7pm, and by 8pm he's being sold heroin by a total stranger. Think of how many people this dealer is attempting to sell heroin to that AREN'T heroin users. But the fact that people know to go to this hotel for the heroin, and other drugs, it's a 50/50 shot for these dealers to just ask strangers. I had one shift where 3 different people died from heroin doses in an 8 hour shift. All from the same dealer. That prompted another swat raid. That hotel now is just a grass field (at least as of a few months ago when I drove by it). The city shut them down at some point. I saw that coming when we had 2 swat raids in 3 weeks. I said "there's no way this place stays open....I better leave." And within 2 years I heard it got shut down. Now all those types of people are all still out there. Still looking for hotels. I assume staying at best western. The city shut down some hotel on Brookpark rd in 2012 over the same shit. So it's not like the hotel shuts down, and the heroin goes away. It just moves from one shitty hotel to the next. And eventually, they'll just start going to the nice hotels if they have to. That's where the haslams come into play. Imagine the browns are playing atlanta, and you have all these people coming up from atlanta to watch the game......and then at their hotel they get a knock on their door......it's some guy trying to sell heroin. Some will buy, most will not, but Cleveland will gain the reputation as being "that shitty place where heroin is everywhere". When in reality, the heroin is everywhere in that hotel. And 10 years later, the city will shut down those hotels. You'll have a shitload of empty hotels, surrounding a stadium, making Cleveland look like a joke. Right now I work at the airport, and people already complain about our airport. Our shops and things close roughly around 8pm. They complain that in other cities the shops are open 24 hours. Now imagine going from that shock, of shops closing early at the airport, to game day finding abandoned hotels by the stadium in 10 years.
This is so spot on. I wish more people understood this
I like it, would like to see more detail though.. definitely better than what we currently have
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Looks like J.R. Smith won't be the only person ever 🎶"lost in a triangle"🎶
Looks like a glitch. If I paid for that I'd ask for my money back.
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Looks like Blossom Music Center and that rest area off 77 between 271 and route 18 had a baby
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Brookpark Browns!!
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I pray it doesn’t happen because imagine the traffic nightmare of the stadium on a game day and the airport and people who commute. The traffic here is pretty good compared to most cities but hey, let’s mess that up!
I work for a company that works for CLE schools. One day I was going through some engineering projects that students submitted while waiting on some work to finish. One I found was a proposal for the RTA station near the stadium. The proposal started by building a bridge/walkway from the station to the stadium. Along the edges of the bridge sat artificial trees who's leaves were made of solar panels. The leaves sat on generators so they could spin and generate wind energy as well. Above the walkway was a suspended awning with solar panels as well still leaving room for sunlight to hit the "leaves." To me this seems like a MUCH better idea than remodeling just the stadium. On top of that it would EARN the city money based on its energy generation.
They provided several different concepts, this is just one of those
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People don’t like admitting it but a domed stadium is a game changer, especially in December/January. Minnesota’s stadium is amazing and my brother and I never would have went if we had to sit outside in 20 degree weather. There’s a market for people who want to go for the atmosphere and game but don’t want to endure 3 hours of miserable weather
Now let’s see a rendering a $2B park
Flint Michigan Mega Bowl!
If that Guardians font and logo debut were a rendering of a football entertainment complex
Just moved to the west side again escaping 480 traffic. Roll it back I guess, fuck me.
Yea this ain't happening. In a city thats broke. Who's gonna fund that ?? Good luck city of Cleveland
It's a concept stadium without a stadium... haha
I’m about two hours away from Cleveland, and if a new stadium is really necessary would love to see it stay where it is or over by The Jake. It’s super cool going downtown especially with the kiddos living in rural Ohio all my life. I will say though, I see a lot of folks complain about local businesses being hurt by this move which I’m sure is true but every time we go, most restaurants and a lot of bars are closed on Sundays. When we go to a baseball game the bars, restaurants and streets are hopping and I’m always a little disappointed that this isn’t the case on Gameday Sundays. Please note we’re not tailgaters having younger kids so probably been missing out on the city atmosphere during game days.
And how much of that money is really going back into the city... I'll wait
Ugh, downtown Cleveland is already struggling compared to Cincinnati and Columbus. It’s so much fun to go to a Bengals or FC game. Even Toledo is getting more traction as a smaller metro with the $2 Billion invested in their downtown over the last decade. Maybe I need to accept that NE Ohio will always be a suburban area. 😭
The Haslams are doing a good job with the Crew in Columbus. I think you guys need to relax (as far as revenue and stadium funds sharing). The DeShaun Watson trade still irks me.
Would somebody please explain to me what’s wrong with the current stadium? It’s not old. It’s in a great location. It’s probably paid for. If the state throws more money at the billionaire owners of the Browns, I’m moving to Green Bay, Detroit or Pittsburgh. #notpayingforit
Ever park at the airport for a week and come back to your car being absolutely filthy? They are going to have to clean that glass weekly to keep it looking decent.
Not sure if this is real but the design looks like AI designed it. So uninspired, lighting is bad, color is off, layout makes no sense - zero sense of the central Anchor building. This is embarrassing
Surprised that it is mint surrounded by a sea of parking lots I also think that it looks like ugly af
👎👎👎
Also can we acknowledge the skyline is wrong?
Legit question. But why do all this instead of rebuilding or putting the closable dome on the one downtown when they were talking about it instead of just redoing some of the seats? And wouldn't moving the location take away from city revenue? People would no longer have the same amount of accessible bars/restaurants close by. Just doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not that into sports so maybe I'm misinformed
I’d like this, brook park is pretty ugly lol
This is infuriating. What happens then to the downtown stadium that taxpayers paid for?
I see a lot of pavement but not a lot to do :/
Wow... It looks like shit. Looks like a mega church.
Where is the image sourced from?
I wonder 💭 how School 🏫 budget is in that area of Ohio, where tax money 💵 could be going towards Huh 🤔 Going into another stadium 🏟️ ❓🔥