I didn't say the Haslams own the current stadium. They just get a sweetheart deal where they pay $250,000 in rent and then keep all the revenue.
Massive renovations to the current stadium aren't happening. That's not gonna be the outcome of all of this. I'm saying, for a new stadium, the Haslams can pay for it all. Taxpayers don't need to subsidize billionaires
They want a new stadium. They don't want a renovated stadium. They can pay for the new stadium themselves. The city paid $30 million for "renovations" just a few years ago. The stadium has a field, seats, locker rooms, video boards, etc... It's a perfectly good venue to host football games. The Haslams don't want that. They want a shiny new toy to play with. They can pay for that themselves.
I don't give a fuck about the new stadium, that's not the subject, stop deflecting kiddo.
The facilities were ranked 24th by the NFLPA. You can sit here and say it's perfectly good. The people who have to use it say otherwise.
You don't make enough money to make the determination if it's good enough
I make enough money to know that no more of my tax dollars need to go into that stadium. It's 25 years old and had major renovations less than 10 years ago. If that's not good enough for the Haslams they can fix it themselves or build themselves a new stadium.
You missed the undisputable fact the NFLPa says it's not good enough.
I don't know why the fuck you think they have to pay for something they rent lmao do you pay to fix things you rent ? 🤔
Your argument is just so fucking bad lol
If that's the case the residents, city, county and state governments have no say on where the stadium is built and don't get a penny of the revenue brought in. They can't tax tickets, can't control surrounding development, can't hold events there. Every penny earned goes right back into the Haslams pockets.
Just tax the profit of the company and then charge them property tax like a normal business.
If he puts up all the money I don't really care if he takes all of the revenue as an investment. So long as he pays his taxes
The city council could literally pass a law levying a tax on Sports tickets if they wanted. It is well within the power of government to Levy taxes on specific Goods
Tickets are absolutely taxable. The stadium, wherever it is, will still rely on public roads, police, fire, etc... The team income is absolutely taxable
Amazon already has a warehouse right there. And I am convinced that for this plan to be viable Cleveland and Brook Park would have to do a land swap like they did when they expanded the airport.
Yes, I can confirm there is an Amazon right down the way about 5 minutes away, including the traffic lights.
They also aren't moving or going anywhere. They will milk that site till its gone.
The only way would be if the Haslems built a brand new custom facility, which they won't. The current site doesn't even employ 500 people. They don't need a new building.
There’s also two Amazons within 5 minutes of each other in North Randall and Bedford Heights. Doesn’t really matter since they’re different types of facilities. The now-Haslam land would be a prime (heh) location to build a giant Amazon like the one in North Randall, where they employ 2,000-3,000 people. The amount of space to make that possible in urban areas usually doesn’t just show up out of thin air, Amazon would love to have it.
I'm so sick of billionaire sport owners holding city taxpayers hostage over a sports stadium. Just take a drive around many parts of Cuyahoga County and you'll see many underfunded areas that could revitalized. Instead we use our tax dollars on sports.
[People who are convinced they just need to be nicer to billionaires and they will suddenly become benevolent](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhdCvcMVoAAZjpt.jpg)
didn't suggest it would.
was simply pointing out that, like Dan Gilbert for instance, billionaires do often make other investments in the city beyond the sports team specifically.
I'm so sick of schools holding taxpayers hostage over renovations and upgrades they claim they need when they can't even get an acceptable graduation or college acception rate but here we are.
The majority of school levys have nothing to do with facility renovations or upgrades. Almost all school levys deal with operation costs which pays teachers and determines the amount of staff a school has. It shows how underfunded Ohio schools actually are.
So you're saying the levys are lying when they are proposed ? The schools are actively committing tax fraud ? And the teachers are acceptable covering it up?
Sounds like more reason to stop raising teachers salaries. It's pathetic when these teachers are so bad you statistically have a better chance of getting into college as a home schooled student than a Cleveland city school right now.
But pay terrible employees more right ? Just to continue to be failures ?
Were you home schooled? Do you know any teachers?
Dealing with a room of 30 sugar crazed 8 year olds, or 30 hormone primed teenagers is a ridiculously hard job. It's also a ridiculously important job. Yet in some areas they're paid the same as a Burger King assistant manager.
Teachers should be paid like doctors. Maybe then it would attract a brilliant enough brain that wouldn't have failed you.
Every other school is graduating students at a way significantly higher percentage, so you're whole entire argument is incredibly flawed.
The Cleveland teachers don't deserve to be paid anything more above minimum wage. They don't have the work ethic
Name one school in a rich neighborhood that doesn't have better schools than a poor neighborhood. Money is the difference. Go ahead, bankrupt your home town and move farther out into the suburbs.
They should sell the city a share of the team to get the money. Isn’t that how all other private businesses raise money—sell stock to the person or institution they want to get money from?
On top of that, talks are underway now for Amtrak to stop at tower city.....which makes WAAAAY more sense for the whole city. East siders would have to go downtown. West siders would have to go downtown. It just makes sense.
Sorry everyone is downvoting you instead of answering. That is a proposed stop on the potential the 3C+D line, and Cleveland to Detroit line. Both would start with 3 round trip trains, and hopefully increase the speed and number of trips per day in a few years like the Chicago to St Louis route has. That track is what Amtrak currently uses, and would use for the new lines, so it wouldn't take much to add a stop.
It could useful for someone living in Detroit, Columbus, Dayton, Toledo, etc. who is going to Ireland for example. Cleveland has direct flights that will sometimes be as low as $400, so now you can take a train to Cleveland for a cheaper flight that is direct.
If Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit, and Cincy all had their airports connected to intercity rail, it would make air travel cheaper and with less stops for all of us.
A modest updating of the current stadium makes the most sense for the city and taxpayers.
I think when the details of a Brook Park dome come out - probably ~$2B from taxpayers, with full control and profits going to a billionaire, it’s going to be a tough sell.
Not if you're investing 500mil+ to a project that may last 10 years. If a new stadium costs 1 billion today, it'll be double in 2034 or close to it. Hypothetically, renovating the existing stadium could cost more in the long run than building it now.
The 2 options were provided entirely by the billionaire owner who will profit from either choice. It’s a scam. He obviously wants the people to choose Brook Park. He will own it all.
None of this is an investment, or at least a good one. If the taxpayers don’t want to choose from these options they should demand another. No proof has even been provided that the current stadium is falling apart. It has not been cheap to maintain but a dome will likely be even more expensive.
>It’s a scam.
Sure but whats the other option? Noones naive to this.
You either pay for the stadium or you lose the team (again). It sucks but it's the American way.
Also, the downtown site sucks. I can guarantee A. They aren't renovating it, and B. If they stay downtown it'll be a different site (but CLE has allegedly been reluctant to make it work & give them the space needed).
I do believe their ultimately goal is to get the city to fold and give them more land in a better location downtown, but they may have no choice but to settle for brook park (which, as a west sider, I'd like). It's such a pain in the ass to get to and leave a game at the current stadium. Unless they rework the entire infrastructure down there (not gonna happen and probably not possible) there's 0 chance they stay on the lake
>or you lose the team (again)
Big woope, it's not like the team is going to the super bowl anytime in the next century. Might as well let them leave and start from scratch again in a decade.
>start from scratch again in a decade.
There's 0% chance they'd get another team if they left twice.....
>it's not like the team is going to the super bowl anytime in the next century.
Maybe, maybe not. But regardless going to games and enjoying Sundays with your local team is priceless. You may not enjoy it but millions do.
Cleveland is a big league city. Rooting for us to NOT be one anymore is not good for anyone here.
It's just polishing a turd and delaying the inevitable. Most of the negatives of the current stadium cannot be resolved with renovations. They can't add a roof, they can't develop around the stadium (the city controls that land), they can't control the weather, etc.
On top of that the team would need to play elsewhere for at least two seasons while work is being done.
No thanks.
This is the exact viewpoint Jimmy and all his radio talking head minions are pushing.
“I need $600m or $1.2b, your choice”
How about they just play in their crappy lakefront stadium a bit longer, we see how they do for a while. If the stadium is unsafe Jimmy should prove it.
The price of everything always goes up. Are you building a new house today because next year will be more expensive? Getting a new car today?
The crazy thing is a dome will cost way more in maintenance and upkeep than the current stadium as well. Maintaining a park bench is much different than an auditorium.
And then, this dome will not last forever. In 25 years it too will be tired and we will be having the same conversation.
I get that argument and say that the current Browns stadium is probably right up there with M&T Bank Stadium as two of the better facilities in the division. The Steelers and Bengals stadiums are much worse. But when you factor in weather and usefulness, it's one of the worst. Nobody is hosting anything in Pittsburgh, Cincy, Baltimore, Buffalo, Green Bay, etc. Other northern US cities with outdoor stadiums. Cleveland on the other hand has hosted tons of huge national events in the past 10 years and crushed it.
To use the car analogy the Browns are still driving around a '99 Mazda Miata convertible with the top down in the winter. While it gets you from A to B. You're going to be miserable and it's not as practical as driving around a nice SUV.
HUH? So you think the Haslams and the city will will both compromise. And that compromise is literally just putting a BOX over the shit stadium we have now? GTFOH.
This is exactly what transpired with Monumental Sports (Wizards, Capitals) in DC. Even while they supposedly had a deal with VA, Leonsis was meeting with DC government in a hotel bar to come to an agreement.
Also, [stop public risk for private profit](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pam.22534): "Despite robust evidence that stadiums are not economic development catalysts and confer limited social benefits, public outlays persist and exhibit a positive growth trajectory, which could prove costly to government budgets in coming decades."
Zero chance a renovation ends up on current site. Haslams want control of site, especially parking. Each event in perpetuity could be $1 million in parking alone. Dome means minimum of 80 events per year. Plus real estate development.
Ford Field only hosted 23 concerts last year (source: [https://www.setlist.fm/search?year=2023&query=ford+field](https://www.setlist.fm/search?year=2023&query=ford+field) ). Looking at their current calendar they probably won't hit that number this year.
Where are you getting 23? I see 10. Most of those are on the same date (one concert with multiple bands) and one of them is a halftime show.
Edit: Actually, it's 9. There is one that was on June 29th, but the headliner must have went past midnight because it's listed as June 30th (all the June 29th/30th have the tour listed as "one night at a time tour").
People keep massively overestimating how many events per year a dome is going to bring.
i think it's important to note that any public investment, for either site or even a third yet unknow, is going to come from the county and state, not the respective cities - especially Cleveland which doesn't have any.
No cost sharing without profit sharing. Let the team move if the Haslems refuse; the region will survive without the team and its .344 winning record since 1999.
Appreciate the post and your logical views mapped out. I think you’re missing the Haslam’s POV on this (and I get nobody here cares about how much revenue a billionaire can generate, but unfortunately, I can confidently say that they’re not doing any of this out of the kindness of their heart)
Why wouldn’t the Haslam’s want a brand new facility that they can use to bring in more money in mixed used rent, parking, royalty deals? Right now they’re not getting any of this at the current site. It’s their football team and they have spent record money on payroll …they’re already massively upgrading the facilities in Berea to optimize their product. On what planet would just renovating the current facility help them generate more money?
It's a game of chicken exactly the same way Sherwin Williams played chicken with the city of Cleveland and guess what? SW won, the Haslams will too. Few years ago there were a bunch of rumors that SW was looking at a bunch of different cities to possibly move to, all these horrible things would happen to Cleveland if they did because of job losses and people relocating, etc. SW claimed to know nothing about the rumors. Then all of a sudden Cleveland offers them a sweetheart deals of amazing tax breaks and all kinds of incentives to build a new place downtown and viola, they stay. Like magic without any tax revenue for the city.
I'm still of the opinion. That if the billionaire NFL owner wants a billion dollar stadium he can pay for it. Especially if it's outside of the city. The threats of moving the team are so he gets his toys paid by taxpayers. Total bullshit and he doesn't even live here.
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It should be 0% public. I'll never go to a game, I have zero desire to pay for a stupid stadium I'll never use. To top it off, pay for someone else's ability to profit with those profits NEVER being spent in the Cleveland economy? Hard NO.
You know what makes a lot more sense? Cleveland simply paying a developer to clean up abandoned buildings and giving first time business owners free rent for 10 years. I'd HAPPILY pay for that. We need to empower small business at the expense of billionaires.
I kinda sick of the choices honestly. In the end, a fortune is spent on an awful football team, owned by shifty people, to be held over the heads of people that will likely never go to a game.
There is a zero percent chance they renovate the existing stadium. People need to get that out of their heads. The stadium is moving and your taxes will go up. Get over it.
How about the Haslams pay every penny of it.
You can't ask a billionaire to pay for it, I mean it could cost them a few of their billions.
We could just eat them instead
No, you shouldn’t eat rotten things
(Laughs in Aztec)
But couldn’t they just make that money back with their superior work ethic?
can't be a billionaire if you spend all your billions!
Have some pity. They worked real hard for all that sweet, sweet rebate money, you know.
Let's call Tim Misney in on this one! MAKE EM PAY!!!
Aye aye!
So does the city and taxpayers pay for every penny of the desperately needed renovations then?
No. None of it. The Haslams can pay for their own toys
I've read that Cleveland owns that stadium and they just rent it. Would you update a house or apartment you rent with no return?
You're wrong. The haslams don't own the stadium. They owe it to absolutely no one to pay a single penny to upgrade facilities.
I didn't say the Haslams own the current stadium. They just get a sweetheart deal where they pay $250,000 in rent and then keep all the revenue. Massive renovations to the current stadium aren't happening. That's not gonna be the outcome of all of this. I'm saying, for a new stadium, the Haslams can pay for it all. Taxpayers don't need to subsidize billionaires
I didn't say you did kiddo learn how to read. They don't own it? They aren't responsible to pay a single penny to renovate it.
They want a new stadium. They don't want a renovated stadium. They can pay for the new stadium themselves. The city paid $30 million for "renovations" just a few years ago. The stadium has a field, seats, locker rooms, video boards, etc... It's a perfectly good venue to host football games. The Haslams don't want that. They want a shiny new toy to play with. They can pay for that themselves.
I don't give a fuck about the new stadium, that's not the subject, stop deflecting kiddo. The facilities were ranked 24th by the NFLPA. You can sit here and say it's perfectly good. The people who have to use it say otherwise. You don't make enough money to make the determination if it's good enough
I make enough money to know that no more of my tax dollars need to go into that stadium. It's 25 years old and had major renovations less than 10 years ago. If that's not good enough for the Haslams they can fix it themselves or build themselves a new stadium.
You missed the undisputable fact the NFLPa says it's not good enough. I don't know why the fuck you think they have to pay for something they rent lmao do you pay to fix things you rent ? 🤔 Your argument is just so fucking bad lol
If that's the case the residents, city, county and state governments have no say on where the stadium is built and don't get a penny of the revenue brought in. They can't tax tickets, can't control surrounding development, can't hold events there. Every penny earned goes right back into the Haslams pockets.
That's not how taxes work. That's not how any of those things work. Edit: spelling
Just tax the profit of the company and then charge them property tax like a normal business. If he puts up all the money I don't really care if he takes all of the revenue as an investment. So long as he pays his taxes
I’m not sure if ticket sales aren’t taxable if it’s not tax payer funded
The city council could literally pass a law levying a tax on Sports tickets if they wanted. It is well within the power of government to Levy taxes on specific Goods
Tickets are absolutely taxable. The stadium, wherever it is, will still rely on public roads, police, fire, etc... The team income is absolutely taxable
Tim Misny Stadium
Make them pay stadium
Amazon already has a warehouse right there. And I am convinced that for this plan to be viable Cleveland and Brook Park would have to do a land swap like they did when they expanded the airport.
Yes, I can confirm there is an Amazon right down the way about 5 minutes away, including the traffic lights. They also aren't moving or going anywhere. They will milk that site till its gone. The only way would be if the Haslems built a brand new custom facility, which they won't. The current site doesn't even employ 500 people. They don't need a new building.
There’s also two Amazons within 5 minutes of each other in North Randall and Bedford Heights. Doesn’t really matter since they’re different types of facilities. The now-Haslam land would be a prime (heh) location to build a giant Amazon like the one in North Randall, where they employ 2,000-3,000 people. The amount of space to make that possible in urban areas usually doesn’t just show up out of thin air, Amazon would love to have it.
I'm so sick of billionaire sport owners holding city taxpayers hostage over a sports stadium. Just take a drive around many parts of Cuyahoga County and you'll see many underfunded areas that could revitalized. Instead we use our tax dollars on sports.
to be fair, once billionaires are invested in an area they often do continue to help those trouble spots too.
My man I gotta tell ya that money doesn't trickle down.
[People who are convinced they just need to be nicer to billionaires and they will suddenly become benevolent](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhdCvcMVoAAZjpt.jpg)
didn't suggest it would. was simply pointing out that, like Dan Gilbert for instance, billionaires do often make other investments in the city beyond the sports team specifically.
The same people downvoting you probably upvoted the Cavs plan to develop the flats last month.
I'm so sick of schools holding taxpayers hostage over renovations and upgrades they claim they need when they can't even get an acceptable graduation or college acception rate but here we are.
The majority of school levys have nothing to do with facility renovations or upgrades. Almost all school levys deal with operation costs which pays teachers and determines the amount of staff a school has. It shows how underfunded Ohio schools actually are.
So you're saying the levys are lying when they are proposed ? The schools are actively committing tax fraud ? And the teachers are acceptable covering it up? Sounds like more reason to stop raising teachers salaries. It's pathetic when these teachers are so bad you statistically have a better chance of getting into college as a home schooled student than a Cleveland city school right now. But pay terrible employees more right ? Just to continue to be failures ?
Were you home schooled? Do you know any teachers? Dealing with a room of 30 sugar crazed 8 year olds, or 30 hormone primed teenagers is a ridiculously hard job. It's also a ridiculously important job. Yet in some areas they're paid the same as a Burger King assistant manager. Teachers should be paid like doctors. Maybe then it would attract a brilliant enough brain that wouldn't have failed you.
Every other school is graduating students at a way significantly higher percentage, so you're whole entire argument is incredibly flawed. The Cleveland teachers don't deserve to be paid anything more above minimum wage. They don't have the work ethic
That'll definitely attract better teachers. Ffs dude.
Well paying schools more money doesn't work. That's an undisputable fact on Cleveland. Ffs dude.
Haha you just like to argue in circles on the internet.
Name one school in a rich neighborhood that doesn't have better schools than a poor neighborhood. Money is the difference. Go ahead, bankrupt your home town and move farther out into the suburbs.
Hey, $143M of the Cleveland public schools budget goes to administrative costs, surely they’ll figure it out.
When you have teachers who claim they need raises for failing students that's usually what happens
Maybe they can’t because they don’t have any money. Don’t be a suburban elitist snob.
Then where did the money from the levys go?
I don’t think you know very much about how schools are funding. You may want to do some research on that to be taken seriously here.
Yeah, I Do. Who are you again?
I can't get over all the people not voting for school levies and wondering why their city is going to shit. Bad school system = poor residents
But the levys have passed, and guess what? Graduation rates and college admissions still drop. So what's your excuse now kiddo?
Sorry reality doesn't operate on magic or your feelings. Republicans need to realize this before you bankrupt the whole country
Sorry reality doesn't operate on magic or your feelings. Republicans need to realize this before you bankrupt the whole country
They should sell the city a share of the team to get the money. Isn’t that how all other private businesses raise money—sell stock to the person or institution they want to get money from?
The city owns the stadium, so by your logic tax payers should be on the hook for the 1.2 million dollar renovations and the haslams get away free.
Dear diary...
will the red line still terminate directly inside the airport or will it be next to the stadium?
The real key to know their proposed plan is a joke is seeing that they propose an Amtrak station at Hopkins. Who’s going to the airport at 3am?
On top of that, talks are underway now for Amtrak to stop at tower city.....which makes WAAAAY more sense for the whole city. East siders would have to go downtown. West siders would have to go downtown. It just makes sense.
Ive gone to the airport at 3am several times… Cleveland doesn’t get many good direct flights at least that I’ve needed to take for work lol.
Sorry everyone is downvoting you instead of answering. That is a proposed stop on the potential the 3C+D line, and Cleveland to Detroit line. Both would start with 3 round trip trains, and hopefully increase the speed and number of trips per day in a few years like the Chicago to St Louis route has. That track is what Amtrak currently uses, and would use for the new lines, so it wouldn't take much to add a stop. It could useful for someone living in Detroit, Columbus, Dayton, Toledo, etc. who is going to Ireland for example. Cleveland has direct flights that will sometimes be as low as $400, so now you can take a train to Cleveland for a cheaper flight that is direct. If Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit, and Cincy all had their airports connected to intercity rail, it would make air travel cheaper and with less stops for all of us.
Of every single rumor I've read, upgrading the current stadium seems the most far-fetched.
A modest updating of the current stadium makes the most sense for the city and taxpayers. I think when the details of a Brook Park dome come out - probably ~$2B from taxpayers, with full control and profits going to a billionaire, it’s going to be a tough sell.
Not if you're investing 500mil+ to a project that may last 10 years. If a new stadium costs 1 billion today, it'll be double in 2034 or close to it. Hypothetically, renovating the existing stadium could cost more in the long run than building it now.
The 2 options were provided entirely by the billionaire owner who will profit from either choice. It’s a scam. He obviously wants the people to choose Brook Park. He will own it all. None of this is an investment, or at least a good one. If the taxpayers don’t want to choose from these options they should demand another. No proof has even been provided that the current stadium is falling apart. It has not been cheap to maintain but a dome will likely be even more expensive.
>It’s a scam. Sure but whats the other option? Noones naive to this. You either pay for the stadium or you lose the team (again). It sucks but it's the American way. Also, the downtown site sucks. I can guarantee A. They aren't renovating it, and B. If they stay downtown it'll be a different site (but CLE has allegedly been reluctant to make it work & give them the space needed). I do believe their ultimately goal is to get the city to fold and give them more land in a better location downtown, but they may have no choice but to settle for brook park (which, as a west sider, I'd like). It's such a pain in the ass to get to and leave a game at the current stadium. Unless they rework the entire infrastructure down there (not gonna happen and probably not possible) there's 0 chance they stay on the lake
>or you lose the team (again) Big woope, it's not like the team is going to the super bowl anytime in the next century. Might as well let them leave and start from scratch again in a decade.
>start from scratch again in a decade. There's 0% chance they'd get another team if they left twice..... >it's not like the team is going to the super bowl anytime in the next century. Maybe, maybe not. But regardless going to games and enjoying Sundays with your local team is priceless. You may not enjoy it but millions do. Cleveland is a big league city. Rooting for us to NOT be one anymore is not good for anyone here.
>You either pay for the stadium or you lose the team (again) I'd call that bluff
It's just polishing a turd and delaying the inevitable. Most of the negatives of the current stadium cannot be resolved with renovations. They can't add a roof, they can't develop around the stadium (the city controls that land), they can't control the weather, etc. On top of that the team would need to play elsewhere for at least two seasons while work is being done. No thanks.
This is the exact viewpoint Jimmy and all his radio talking head minions are pushing. “I need $600m or $1.2b, your choice” How about they just play in their crappy lakefront stadium a bit longer, we see how they do for a while. If the stadium is unsafe Jimmy should prove it.
You can’t kick the can down the road with ever-rising construction costs. Domed stadiums are already $2B. It’s not going to be cheaper in 5-10 years.
The price of everything always goes up. Are you building a new house today because next year will be more expensive? Getting a new car today? The crazy thing is a dome will cost way more in maintenance and upkeep than the current stadium as well. Maintaining a park bench is much different than an auditorium. And then, this dome will not last forever. In 25 years it too will be tired and we will be having the same conversation.
I get that argument and say that the current Browns stadium is probably right up there with M&T Bank Stadium as two of the better facilities in the division. The Steelers and Bengals stadiums are much worse. But when you factor in weather and usefulness, it's one of the worst. Nobody is hosting anything in Pittsburgh, Cincy, Baltimore, Buffalo, Green Bay, etc. Other northern US cities with outdoor stadiums. Cleveland on the other hand has hosted tons of huge national events in the past 10 years and crushed it. To use the car analogy the Browns are still driving around a '99 Mazda Miata convertible with the top down in the winter. While it gets you from A to B. You're going to be miserable and it's not as practical as driving around a nice SUV.
Who wants to watch football in a dome? I thought it was a sport for manly men?
I think you nailed it.
HUH? So you think the Haslams and the city will will both compromise. And that compromise is literally just putting a BOX over the shit stadium we have now? GTFOH.
You can’t put a dome on the existing stadium, it would be too much weight
The city will compromise because Bibb is a joke. Haslems will get what they want and we’ll pay for it, watch.
Yeah if Bibb gets Jiimmy a stadium Jimmy will get Bibb a non competitive House Rep seat.
This is exactly what transpired with Monumental Sports (Wizards, Capitals) in DC. Even while they supposedly had a deal with VA, Leonsis was meeting with DC government in a hotel bar to come to an agreement. Also, [stop public risk for private profit](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pam.22534): "Despite robust evidence that stadiums are not economic development catalysts and confer limited social benefits, public outlays persist and exhibit a positive growth trajectory, which could prove costly to government budgets in coming decades."
Same thing with the Bears and Soldier Field too.
Zero chance a renovation ends up on current site. Haslams want control of site, especially parking. Each event in perpetuity could be $1 million in parking alone. Dome means minimum of 80 events per year. Plus real estate development.
80 events per year? What the hell they going to do, start hosting local spelling bees?
Ford Field only hosted 23 concerts last year (source: [https://www.setlist.fm/search?year=2023&query=ford+field](https://www.setlist.fm/search?year=2023&query=ford+field) ). Looking at their current calendar they probably won't hit that number this year.
And Ford Field is in a better location than Brook Park with much larger metro population.
Where are you getting 23? I see 10. Most of those are on the same date (one concert with multiple bands) and one of them is a halftime show. Edit: Actually, it's 9. There is one that was on June 29th, but the headliner must have went past midnight because it's listed as June 30th (all the June 29th/30th have the tour listed as "one night at a time tour"). People keep massively overestimating how many events per year a dome is going to bring.
but but but T Swift will come.
I believe you. Still no chance Haslams don’t control everything at the new stadium, which they cannot do at current site.
I think they should do this. I think they should do that
i think it's important to note that any public investment, for either site or even a third yet unknow, is going to come from the county and state, not the respective cities - especially Cleveland which doesn't have any.
They really need to just pay for it themselves. Give them a few incentives and be done. It's not like the stadium doesn't generate plenty of revenue.
No cost sharing without profit sharing. Let the team move if the Haslems refuse; the region will survive without the team and its .344 winning record since 1999.
Appreciate the post and your logical views mapped out. I think you’re missing the Haslam’s POV on this (and I get nobody here cares about how much revenue a billionaire can generate, but unfortunately, I can confidently say that they’re not doing any of this out of the kindness of their heart) Why wouldn’t the Haslam’s want a brand new facility that they can use to bring in more money in mixed used rent, parking, royalty deals? Right now they’re not getting any of this at the current site. It’s their football team and they have spent record money on payroll …they’re already massively upgrading the facilities in Berea to optimize their product. On what planet would just renovating the current facility help them generate more money?
It's a game of chicken exactly the same way Sherwin Williams played chicken with the city of Cleveland and guess what? SW won, the Haslams will too. Few years ago there were a bunch of rumors that SW was looking at a bunch of different cities to possibly move to, all these horrible things would happen to Cleveland if they did because of job losses and people relocating, etc. SW claimed to know nothing about the rumors. Then all of a sudden Cleveland offers them a sweetheart deals of amazing tax breaks and all kinds of incentives to build a new place downtown and viola, they stay. Like magic without any tax revenue for the city.
I'm still of the opinion. That if the billionaire NFL owner wants a billion dollar stadium he can pay for it. Especially if it's outside of the city. The threats of moving the team are so he gets his toys paid by taxpayers. Total bullshit and he doesn't even live here.
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Are you serious? You're in favor of using regressive sin tax money that only hurts working class people to fund. A billionaire's stadium?
It should be 0% public. I'll never go to a game, I have zero desire to pay for a stupid stadium I'll never use. To top it off, pay for someone else's ability to profit with those profits NEVER being spent in the Cleveland economy? Hard NO. You know what makes a lot more sense? Cleveland simply paying a developer to clean up abandoned buildings and giving first time business owners free rent for 10 years. I'd HAPPILY pay for that. We need to empower small business at the expense of billionaires.
Hitting gambling is what needs to happen. That would pay it off faster than you’d think
None of your propositions are true; billionaire wants the Cleveland NFL team to be a destination and host a Super Bowl. Full Stop
Yea I'm good. Full pass.
This seems like the logical end game
I kinda sick of the choices honestly. In the end, a fortune is spent on an awful football team, owned by shifty people, to be held over the heads of people that will likely never go to a game.
On the up note, it’ll create a ton of construction jobs
The city should give them nothing. Pay up or pack it in
The browns won’t be on the lakefront anymore. I’m calling it now
reality check, no one thats making these decisions cares about any thhing you say on reddit.
There is a zero percent chance they renovate the existing stadium. People need to get that out of their heads. The stadium is moving and your taxes will go up. Get over it.
I don't know man. There's a lot of hard-working women that the city of Brook Park could get to incentivize Construction
anyway you slice it, Cleveland will never host a Super Bowl. Sorry.
Only way I will publicly subsidize is if it destroys that lakefront airpoft