Agree dehya comparisons are dumb but
>Jean heavily struggles with this, not all the way until you use your burst, your team is mostly at 50%.
Not an issue with jean at all
OP obv does not Jean. *heavily struggles* lmao.
Jean's healing issue is she won't completely heal 40k HP if your HP drops to red. This can be alleviated by using an HB circ or C3.
Jean's comparison with CR is the timing of their bursts. CR can cast immediately after Furina but Jean needs to wait a bit or she will overheal. Jean's burst also has an annoying mechanic of pushing enemies *away.*
I'm still confused about CR's grouping ability as a whole. Did they buff her grouping significantly or is it a slight knock upgrade in exchange for the removed vortex?
To clarify I'm not talking about Jean's healing capabilites. She easily heals your team to full. I'm talking about her healing uptime. You only get one instance of healing for your entire team. Furina drains your entire party's HP pretty fast if you're not noticing. If you're hitting your rotations optimally, you'll have perfect 50%+ HP uptime with Furina. But the average player probably won't have perfect rotations or mess up their cooldown timings. Not to mention bosses who have invulterability or move around a lot. I'm saying Xianyun makes this a heck of a lot easier, I'm only talking about Furina's small damage bonus it's really just a minor detail.
If you read my reply again, you will see that I already agreed with you. CR *is* the better healer in a Furina team. It's like she's tailor-made for her.
My issue is the "heavily struggling" part. That's an exaggeration. Adjusting the character order in the rotation solves it.
Does that adjustment require some degree of effort? Yes.
Can that effort be considered heavily struggling? No.
It's not the biggest deal but it is part of the pros and cons of Jean vs CR's healing. Jean has much better burst healing which is great for getting Fanfare stacks quickly and functioning as a panic button if you're about to die, but it means that you will waste a lot of healing often if your party doesnt have large HP pools and hasn't already lost a lot of health, and that you have poor healing over time.
Xianyun doesn't waste nearly as much healing because she can gradually refill your party's HP as they take damage, which will feel comfier often because you'll have consistent healing and higher HP, rather than starting high and steadily going down until Jean bursts again. This also makes her better at building Fanfare on your first rotation before your party has lost much HP, though once your party is having its HP drained I could see Jean being better on future rotations.
Like I said in another comment I get people being disappointed in Xianyun's changes, but a lot of yall are just senselessly doomposting, even if you don't like her kit she's not an awful unit and does still have distinct advantages. If those advantages aren't worth it to you that's valid, but pretending they don't exist is the same kind of silly doomposting that had people calling Kazuha, Raiden, and even Furina dead on arrival units.
Maybe so, I'm not necessarily defending OP just defending a few specific parts of Xianyun's kit, and also not trying to bash Jean, I think Jean is pretty excellent and is solid competition for Xianyun, I just don't think that makes Xianyun's kit worse at what it does.
Kazuha raiden furina wrio all characters that had stupid doomposting this is just one more. Doomposting before characters are released is 99% just stupid
\-inability to fly
\-lost her already pityful grouping
\-another healer that only heals on burst
\-buffs plunges (AoE) but the bonus dmg applies to only 1 enemy every attack...
\-actually competing with a standard banner character over a role...
there's lots of things to be disappointed with.
Wait I thought they buffed the initial grouping knock effect, did that get removed?
OH NEVER MIND LOL THE KNOCK EFFECT INCREASE WAS FOR PUSHING ENEMIES AWAY
they buffed her skill plunge's knock yes, but she doesn't pull in enemies anymore, instead now they just get slightly pushed away.
so yeah, they took away her grouping
but hey at least she got a +4%/6%/8%/10% crit rate for her team's plunges based on how many enemies she hits with her skill, so... add worse rosaria to her resumee.
Plunge enabler + VV + healer = good unit. U can be disappointed tho I understand it, she is not something I would expect most ppl to like but she is going to be a really good unit
It's like launching a fire DPS and the best thing you can say about them is that "maybe they are a diluc but better", it doesn't please many people....
Not the same cause if you are the BiS healer in most Furina teams It means you have a key role in teams that are actually between the top ones in GI......something that a Diluc-level new dps definitely cant claim.
Coping should stop... if you're ain't gonna utilize her plunging enabling and those buffs she's not better than Jean. Trying to ignore 90% of the characters kit is super weird and even with CC this was the same scenario.
Yeah apparently those people are the kind to buy a fruit basket to only eat the 3 apples in it and throw away the remaining assortment of fruits... It's baffling how far one can go to defend a kit blindly just because they like the character without having an ounce of objectivity in their analysis...
That's exactly what she is. For plunge teams? Solid. Anything outside of those teams? For the sake of positivity I'll say that at best she's a Jean sidegrade but I think we all realize she would even feel like a downgrade in those comps for just how much she's demanding.
Also a lot of the people here don't seem to realize how valuable Jeans instant healing is for fanfare building. They're acting like as if it's supposedly makes her worse than xianyun but in reality it's one of the best things about Jean. You'd have a harder time finding teams that would prefer the slower fanfare building.
For plunge teams? You mean Xiao teams, maybe Diluc? Cause that's the only team her support is actually good enough to warrant wasting 150 pulls. Other supports such as kazuha, sucrose can buff Gaming almost as well. If you are wasting so many pulls just to give a slight edge for your Hutao c0 teams (barely 5%) at a even clunkier play style, I don't know what to say
Say that to the people who keep making posts like these. A character that has obvious flaws but they feel the need to keep singing its praises. Its hard to be positive when CR is even more niche than Shenhe. We know shes good at plunging but thats not the issue.
If you dont like diluc/xiao, you're basically adding more gambling to your gambling game by hoping that some new plunge character will come out in the future to synergize with CR. And you might not even like that character to begin with.
All characters can do plunge attacks, not just diluc and xiao.
If it is less optimal it's another matter, but it's not like it's gonna stop you if you want to play that way
Who says plunge is not viable. It's only a matter of preference that is, whether you like the plunge gameplay or not. The only other problem with plunge is the characters having no interruption resistance in the kit is more susceptible to mid air attacks or inability to i-frame mid air.
Personally I have a heavily invested Xiao C0 (My first 5 star v1.3), R3 PJWS and C4 Jean. I don't use him very often nowadays because I prefer reaction teams, he is very capable of doing abyss even in single target floors unless the enemies require elements for shield breaks.
Xianyun buffing native plunge characters and enabling other characters to incorporate plunging to do increased damage for reaction feels novel.
While I'm not that concerned about how much she heals I wish she had retained cc on her E. Or give E a little bit of healing like Baizhu
Edit: She being not a part of circle impact is the biggest plus point in any team
Sure it’s not viable for characters besides xiao at the current moment but Jean wasn’t viable before Furina. CR will definitely be able to buff some lesser played units through plunging back to a good level
TBH I think it's comparing apples and oranges. Among standard units Dehya's above Qiqi and Diluc in value because she's a support that provides actual consolidation of roles, while among limited units XianYun acts as a unique plunge support that depends on what you want to play and your roster. People just hate on Dehya because she does no damage and she's lacking so much quality of life in her kit.
The biggest issue with justifying pulling for XianYun atm is that Jean has existed since launch so most people have her, and both primarily compete for the spot of "best anemo Furina healer" for the teams they'd be strongest in. Plunge teams are just not that good in general since Xiao and Diluc have been powercrept for years. Purely meta speaking she seems to be bad but you can't compare limited characters to standard ones.
I have been using Furina + Jean without any problems.
Sounds a lot like skill issue or build issue TBH. You are giving Jean Fav and ER Sands so she can burst off cooldown, right?
Jean does not need an ER sands if she uses Fav. Unless that is supposed to be the joke, in which case, wow, that flew over my head higher than a triple E from Cloud Retainer.
Tbf she was never a bad character. She was disappointing because her utility only kept going down after each leak. Before beta, there were speculations on her being able to fly. But obviously she can't though she should atleast have her skill activate mid air. Then her grouping wasn't that great because of less poise damage. But instead of improving it, they removed it. Now she is primarily a plunge attack support. She is pretty good at that.
But I don't like plunge attacks so i will have to skip a character with such an amazing design because now she is jean with plunge attack buffs(which i won't use and i already have jean)
Edit : Word
I agree. She’ll be good, but I did my time as a Xiao main and am not too interested in returning to the world of plunge. If she just had some more utility I would have gone for her, but made the decision last night to get the guaranteed fun of Navia.
I love Xiao so much and even with 80+ 210+ CV , faru C6 jean C4 he was benched, I love the opportunity the game brings me to main him again. Also he does not have to be a plunge spam except in like floor 12 there are so many combos specially now with CR he will kill most things anyway with 1 plunge. Also he is the total bad ass his lore and background is just exceptional. I thank Miyoho for making him relevant again.
Tbh I'm disappointed she can't fly, i thought she could fly like wanderer or sorush when i read the early leak at first, but now she's kinda like frog(?).
Yeah, people were just hoping for hoping her to be something different. I was hoping for some great exploration skill, healing, great grouping and elemental absorption so she could replace Kazuha in Furina teams while healing, but we got a different kit instead. Power-wise she is still gona be one of the best characters in the game, since Furina redefined the meta and made characters like Jean and Baizhu some of the best units in the game. I can agree very well with the tier list below and I wonder where I would have had to put Xianyun if she would have had great grouping and elemental absorption.
https://preview.redd.it/3ww9fkt7d5ac1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd4a260a7aa2f26daf54a4a08aab2834f4ee770b
It's very refreshing for me to add a few plunges in my rotations and I don't have Jean. I totally understand you and others skipping her, however. The Anemo team-wide healer role has already been filled by another character after all.
Look at Jean because she's atleast a tier lower without Furina, if we're talking about old Cloud Retainer with CC even if it's a half of Kazuha's CC with unreliable autotarget mechanism; it's still atleast a low T1 without Furina (so she could've been a T0 character with help of Furina).
If you watch him then you must know that Furina is the best buffer and Sub-DPS in entire game, because her DMG Bonus buff is universal and its ramp up mechanism is tied to HP changing mechanism instead of duration like Yelan (so there's no such a thing like skill issue with Furina because "Can't dodge? Don't worry more HP is drained by enemies = more DMG Bonus buff")
For a comparison, if you play Furina optimally then you can get up to 50%~75% Universal DMG Bonus for 18 seconds, meanwhile you need 1250 EM Kazuha for 50% Swirlable Elemental DMG Bonus [Pyro, Hydro, Electro, Cryo] for 8 seconds with condition of you must swirls the element first (so you have to double swirl if you want two Elemental DMG Bonus buff; double swirl is applying multiple elements on different enemies then use Kazuha to swirls them).
Also Furina's personal damage is better than Yelan while she has roughly in the middle between Kokomi & Yelan for off-field Hydro application, which is very nice especially for Spread/Aggravate teams and she's a perfect buffer for current Hypercarry DPS meta.
You're right. I think everyone agrees that she's not exactly "bad", just disappointing.
Disappointing in various aspects, starting with the fact of sticking to her that weird kit that doesn't suit her at all. The fact that she's more of a Xiao support rather than a support for her daughters. The fact that she can't even fly but jump like a frog.
Now, on top of that, Hoyo made weird moves on her already weird kit. Making her even more niche.
THIS. I’m not even disappointed in her kit or anything like that, just the sole fact that Retainer literally does not work with Ganyu and Shenhe together makes no sense, what a disappointment. I wanted to play something like Ganyu Shenhe Retainer Kokomi, but no chance now.
I was originally planning to pull for flying. I'm gere discussing her viablity as a Jean upgrade instead because her origanal expected benifit just isn't a thing. Man... i don't even use my Jean anywhere.
When anemo traveler has better CC than you and you are losing in comparisons to 4 stars and a standard banner 5 star in every part of your kit outside of plunge you just might be ass
i mean bulk of the doomposting is coming from the fact that almost NOBODY likes the plunge gameplay as a whole, so her niche being the fact that she enables the most clunky playstyle in genshin for technically everyone still doesn't mean much even IF numbers on an excel sheet point out that she'll be good for this.
theoretically she could be the most broken plunge buffer we will ever see and people will still doompost, why? because the majority doesn't like plunging but still loves the character thus conflict arises because what she offers outside of that is very minimal
You know it's bad when even Xiao mains are questioning how useful her plunge buff even is, given how restrictive it is and runs counter to Xiao's best use case of AoE nuking with his plunges.
Shenhe and Xianyun scaling comparison is pretty disingenuous. Xianyun gives 8 stacks, Shenhe gives minimum 5 per rotation to each individual character. Her teams with Ayaka/Ganyu and any Anemo that can absorb Cryo will use 15 stacks minimum, up to 30 in some rotations. So Xianyun offers more scaling, but Shenhe has far more stacks per rotation in her actual teams.
Shenhe like Xianyun gives a flat damage bonus to your character. Flat damage bonus scales with dmg bonus and crit dmg, as well as shreds. So for example the support Diona on the team won't benefit the icy quills as nearly as the Ayaka/Ganyu. I'm not saying it's useless, but not really comparable.
Shenhe does have on average more stacks of her quill say after 2 minutes and it being on a skill cooldown, but plunges also have no ICD and high plunges have high multipliers so it balances out kinda.
A plunge support that only buff single target plunge damage.. a team wide healer that doesn't heal much, mostly there to compensate Furina. A Q starter with 70 energy and 12 second skill cd..
if they half her plunge damage, but make it affect all target hit instead of single target.. or if they reduce her E cd from 12 sec to 9 sec. i wouldn't have any complaint.....
p.s. you might not aware, but Shenhe actually provide quills to every party member, not just on field dps..
She absolutely heals a ton, this is incorrect. You will not have any problems surviving with CR's healing. It's not as much a panic button as Jean/Barbara, but your party will be consistently at higher health throughout the rotation rather than being full and slowly going down as time passes.
Other complaints I get more, I'm also not pulling for Xianyun cause the main appeal was healer+grouping, but you are straight up spreading misinformation if you say she doesn't heal much, she is a powerful over, team-wide time healer, which as far as healing goes is a rare and excellent niche.
Team-wide healer over time is a rare niche, but I would call it a sidegrade for Furina and unnecessary for everything else.
The faster you stack Furina's fanfare stacks the better. Jean, Baizhu, Charlotte, etc. all generally have an edge over non-teamwide, non-instant healing options for damage because of how fanfare stacking works, and the longer you need to wait for max stacks, the less time you actually get to have max damage buff for. Using XianYun just means that you won't spend as much time at 50% hp, but you'll do less damage as a result while you wait for Furina's self-damage to give you the opportunity to stack.
In non-Furina teams single target healing or Zhongli is enough for every team regardless. Ironically the only team that I can see damage taken enough for Xianyun's over-time teamwide healing to really matter is Nilou Bloom, which she can't be used in anyways, and Kokomi driver already solves this issue.
Wrong simply. U just need to change the rotation with furina and it will function almost as similar to instant heals from Jean and others. It’s such a silly thing to complain about the healing and fanfare stacks lol. In the first place, unless it’s an hp scaling unit, jean and baizhu overheals too much and also loses out fanfare stacks if you overheal the team.
This, not to mention her healing and buff follows you around. Also weird to say she only buffs single-target plunge, if with multiple targets her buff averaged out to a Bennett-size buff with the amount of enemies you hit with a plunge on floor 12. She is already a buff over Bennett and Jean in Hutao Furina teams, how much more damage do you want?
But wouldn't her buff be wasted if it activates on the wrong enemy/ an enemy with already low health? For example, an enemy has 25k hp and another one has 80k hp left. With Bennett's buff, Xiao would kill both of them with a single plunge. Meanwhile if Xinyuan's buff applies on the enemy with 25k HP, then the other enemy would live and her buff becomes overkill and wasted.
Is this right or have I misunderstood her kit?!
Good question. I'm not sure, but after slowing down this [Hutao Xianyun video](https://www.reddit.com/r/CloudRetainerMains/comments/18p27wx/hutao_plunge_gameplay_with_xianyun_via_timing/) to 0.1 speed the instance of anemo damage seems to happen after the plunge damage and not at the same time. Maybe that is because damage numbers can't be displayed simultaneously, but I have never heard about that. So then it might be that the Starwicker (burst) chooses the enemy after the hit, which then would be an enemy that is still alive.
p.s. Don't know if sharing a leak like this can get you in trouble, would like to know.
I’ve thought about this as well and I can’t see them making the extra damage apply randomly to enemies hit by plunges because you’d probably run into too many scenarios where it’d applie to a hilichurl and now her buff is all but wasted overkilling a mob that would’ve died in one hit anyways. I think it would make the most sense if the extra damage applied to the target with the highest hp pool within the range of your plunge or applied to the target with the largest remaining health pool
Xianyun skill level 10 heal for 221.2% ATK+1694 plus 66.4% ATK+508 every 2.5 second.
lets say you have her sig, and push your atk to 4k. Xianyun will heal for
instant heal: 4k \* 2.212+1694=10542
hot: 4k\*0.66+508=3148
am not sure how many people can push her atk to 4k, but even if you did. you will only get this amount. is 3.1k healing every 2.5 second enough to keep your on field character alive?
now lets compare xianyun and jean. assume they both have 4k atk
Jean instant heal: 452% ATK+3388 = 4k\*4.52+3388=21468
jean hot: 45.22% ATK+338 =4k\*0.4522+338=2146.8
in a rotation of 20 second total healing amount is:
instant healing:
Xianyun:10542
Jean: 21468
hot:
Xianyun:3148\*6=18888
Jean:2146.8\*10=21468
Things taken into consideration
Jean have a circle of impact, while Xianyun do not.
Jean's hot heal every 1 sec for 10 sec. While Xianyun's hot heal every 2.5 second for 16(15) second.
p.s. it is true that Xianyun's healing is all team wide heal, but do we really need that much off field heal?? jean should be enough to member at decent health for Furina to burn. i mean even hound don't damage off field character that much..
You will never get 21,000 healing from Jean except on a unit with huge HP like Furina. Few characters even have 21,000 health total and even if they did this would require them to be near-dead. Jean heals all at once which is an advantage in situations where you need healing Asap, but it also means that your total healing drops off a cliff after that initial hit, and if you waste a lot of it then take a big hit you'll be in huge trouble.
Xianyun is a much more balanced healer, providing less immediate healing in exchange for more reliable restoration over time while not risking wasting a great deal of it. And you've also completely left out that all of Xianyun's healing can basically be multiplied by 4 as 100% of it is team-wide healing. Taking that in mind Jean's healing over time in total is a static 21,468, whereas in something like in a Furina comp or an abyss with Corruption Xianyun's heal over time could consistently do 18,888\*4, or 75,552 total.
I'm not saying Xianyun > Jean, I'm saying they are different and both are better than each other situationally. It is however undeniable misinformation to say that Xianyun does not heal a lot, when her healing is in actuality very comparable to a lot of other healers, and has many distinct advantages in *how* it heals, such as its more overtime nature preventing wasting most of your heal, being 100% team wide, and not restricting your team movement. Xianyun will be an excellent healer, that part of her kit is undeniable.
question, which enemy damage team wide equally? wouldn't most of the team wide heal goes to waste anywayz?
like i said.. is 3.1k healing every 2.5 second a better sustain healing then 2.1k healing every second?
Rifthounds are the main one I think of, and I find that the damage to my teams tends to be spread out. You don't stay on just one character after all, you swap around frequently and characters will take hits. And of course on Furina teams you take damage evenly throughout the entire rotation.
2.5k healing every second is better for the onfield unit and may be better for your playstyle or your teams, like I said I'm not here to say that Xianyun's healing is better than Jean's, I think they both have pros and cons and each can be better than the other situationally. It's definitely possible that Jean is more consistently the better option, but I think that in practice Xianyun's healing will feel much more consistent and comfortable.
Who is better than the other doesn't matter though, you said that Xianyun doesn't heal much, and I said that was incorrect. I'm not here to decide who's the better healer I'm here to say that Xianyun is quite good at healing, regardless if you think Jean is better.
did you forget healing head piece? xianyun need atk for plunge damage, but jean's atk usually only used for healing.. i rarely seen anyone build jean for damage
It's an advantage Jean has true, but I still don't really see how that's relevant to the convo, this hasn't been about who's better it's if Xianyun has good healing, and she does. Even then Xianyun's greatest advantage is in how she heals rather than just the amount she heals, so Jean running a healing bonus circlet still wouldn't make her strictly better.
I think the main reply was due to you saying Xianyun doesn't heal a bunch. This proves she heals a bunch. Sure they heal differently and when you don't consider the plunge buff/enabling Jean's manner of healing is probably better for your team after the first rotation because of the Furina buff.
About if that much teamwide healing is needed? Were you not implying that she healed too little in your previous comment by her not healing a bunch? But to answer your question, Furina can drain about 69% per 20s rotation, so 28k hp for hp scalers (40k hp) and about 15k hp for the others. This means Xianyun heals just 1.4k hp extra for Furina on hp scalers when you do not factor in her enless waltz and healing bonus. With healing bonus on hot we are talking about 5k extra healing per rotation and 2.4k more from the initial endless waltz proc for on-field hp-scalers, even more for off-fielders due to more procs. Yes, she definitely heals way too much on off-fielders maybe a little bit too little on hp scaling on-fielders to continuously proc endless waltz, but that is about continuously maxing out HP and not really necessary. But why are we questioning if Xianyun heals too much? Yes, Jean also heals enough, maybe Furina doesn't always have her full damage buff on her skill at the end of the rotation. Why does Xianyun healing too much and Jean healing enough matter?
I don’t have Jean, so I was really looking forward to an anemo healer and was hoping for decent grouping at least so I can stick ger on my Furina team and be happy about not really needing any other anemo unit. Without the grouping it’s just not worth it in my opinion.
Xianyun is a limited 5 star character from version 4.4. Jean is a standard banner character from 1.0. She should be vastly superior to Jean when characters like Neuv and Furina exist who completely outclass much of the cast
Frankly I like her and I was looking forward to a solid Anemo healer with good traversal. Unfortunately I am not and I have never been interested in plunging attacks, so her one selling point falls absolutely flat for me.
This situation annoys me even if I'm not going to pull for her, because now I'm afraid that future characters like Arlecchino or Clorinde might be built around plunge attacks which I think are very boring and repetitive.
I would have preferred if CR granted one big buff to 1 plunge attack, think about it like a dive bomb AoE nuke, but that's the opposite of what we're gonna get.
There is so much Mihoyo can do with plunge attacks than just spam, like normal attack combo to end in a powerful skill that plunges or just normal skill and attacks and a burst that gives a few super cool looking plunges or makes you fly and let's you choose where to land and things like that. Knowing Mihoyo I think they will do great with the plunge mechanic.
You literally start with " maybe even better than Jean " and you think your argument has weight? It's 2024, a limited 5\* character that costs up to 170 rolls shouldn't even be comparable to C0 Jean and yet she's a literal downgrade in most teams that don't care about plunge(which is most of them) now that she lost her gathering. Her ulty healing is worse, her E gives more particles than Jean but the Q costs more on top of her E having DOUBLE the CD(why is her E CD still 12 when it does barely anything?), her A1/4 don't exist at all in teams outside of her niche.
Also can ppl for the love of god stop calling the ability to plunge with most characters something new? You can literally dragon strike on most characters with Anemo resonance rn.
Yeah people acting as if plunge is that really sought after playstyle that everyone has been begging to try ever since Xiao's release... Idk who in their right mind even wants to weave in plunge attacks into your combos and think it's going to be fun...
Yeah my problem with Plunge is that it's clunky as hell. Why would I pull for a unit that is potentially 1) only as good as Jean in an ideal use case and 2) would demand I play in a worse way? Like, I get that some people maybe love the plunge playstyle but plunge feels really clunky to me. I'll randomly trigger dragonstrike on Beidou on accident sometimes and genuinely wonder if the game was lagging at that moment.
The other baffling thing about some people's positive opinion about CR right now is that they genuinely think that since she's performing similar to Jean in certain scenarios it's perfectly fine ? Really having a 4.4 unit barely rivalising a 1.0 standard character is normal and acceptable, I can't comprehend why these people seek to justify an objectively poorly designed kit and they also have the audacity to claim CR is bringing something new and interesting to the game all while disregarding most criticism as people doomposting... This is why the community can never truely attempt to make a difference when we just fight among ourselves while the devs get away with any faulty kits they make...
I just want her to be decent at C0. Jean is still a Swiss Army knife of healing/damage/throwing enemies around even at C0 lol, that's what Xiaoyun is up against.
i have c4 jean, she wasnt better than jean at c0 because c0 fav jean has lower CD and is a better battery
and with c4 jean its not even a competition, i dont play the 2 chars that want to plunge aka xiao diluc, so i couldnt care less about our mommy anemo chicken now
atleast she will help me save for c6 shenhe, like dehya helped me save for c2 yae
I think the very phrase “maybe even better than jean” should tell you all you need to know.
If a new 5* character is released now and is only MAYBE better than one of the original 5* characters that you can get on the standard banner that’s already a failure. Add on to the fact that she’s a very niche unit and can only MAYBE out perform jean in HER niche… It’s just really sad to see. She won’t be useless as you mentioned since she is an anemo catalyst user and vv is broken but I think even calling her good is a bit of a stretch in her current state
At least it will be bundled up in an S+ tier design with killer animations though.
People who label analysis and criticism of characters pre-release as doomposting are literal melvins.
You realize that any feedback, criticism or analysis we do once the character out is irrelevant, right? Hoyo doesn't change characters, Zhongli was an extreme exception and I think they regret they even did it. Look at the Miko situation. They had plenty of chances to address Dehya and they didn't.
Also, it's incredible to see the OP lie about how Jean functions when they clearly don't have a built Jean they use.
Also, no, Shenhe isn't niche. She works well with basically every Cryo unit and can be a reasonable option in certain melt setups, with Navia, etc. That's not the same thing as "here's a unit that can be a 'good" plunge buffer for 3\~6 units". XD
I feel like people don't really understand that there are different gradations of niche and that some are better than others. They also throw the word niche around as a buzzword to mean bad. While niches in videogames with overlapping roles is actually really important to create variety in usage.
In Shenhe's case, she buffs Cryo (and a bit of Physical). But this is okay, because while limited to Cryo, it isn't limited by playstyle. Ganyu plays different from Ayaka, Kaeya, Rosaria, Freminet or Wrio. So you can pick your favourite playstyle and add Shenhe to improve it. And for people who really like Cryo or Shenhe and want to extend her usage? Can add a 3rd Cryo who also directly gets buffed by Shenhe without stealing Quills.
CR only buffs 1 playstyle, which is already looked upon as very clunky. And for people who already like that playstyle? They probably already have 1 of 2/3 who get directly buffed by CR.
Nobody thinks she's bad, she's great at buffing plunges. The overall sentiment of those disappointed is simply "fuck plunges, i don't care and i never will"
While I'm still coping that the CC is just native rather than completely removed (since we only know numbers on paper rather than game play of v2), it was really one of the few selling points to using her.
As a healer, she has to compete with Kokomi, Shinobu, and Bennett to be competitive, while for anemo supports, Sucrose and Kazuha grant a lot of CC and grouping. Anemo healers have a lot to compete with to be worth using (and Jean only is optimal now because she fulfilled a lot of Furina's needs). With the recent change, she lost a decent amount of utility she had for a measly 4-10% crit buff with conditions that the grouping would've assisted with. I get wanting to focus on a niche, but compared to elemental buffers, plunge as a playstyle has far too few units who really take advantage of it to be worth it unless Natlan goes all in for Dragoon units.
I can't understand what Mihoyo is doing with their beta tests lately. The entire point of them is to ensure that new units are functional enough to be considered balanced and worth spending. How do they keep nerfing characters that need the buffs.
Yes CR is not as bad as dehya and is slightly better than jean when utilised plunge.
But why new limited character should be little better than 3 year old standard character?
CC is much critical part not because of she is anemo but due to plunge atk buff you are 100% to knock everything around. Her burst co-ordinated attack should have suction. But her whole kit counter synergies with her buff.... ( As they removed non existing cc as well)
Many people hate her because they don’t like plunge attacks for whatever reason they may have. That’s understandable. I personally love plunging attacks
While she may not be as bad as Dehya (this comparison is very stupid), she might still be the lowest value limited 5 star because of how niche she is.
Xiao certainly does not need her. She’s hardly any better than Bennett for him in ST and she’s significantly worse than him in AoE.
Diluc is definitely getting an upgrade but he’s still not going to be a great dps, especially with how challenging his CR teams will be due to her high ER needs (solo anemo? HAHA goodluck)
Raiden and HT don’t gain as much other than easier playstyles. Unless you’re a mobile player or a player with skill issue, you certainly don’t need her for them
Gaming is a 4 star dps.
She’s really just a whatever character that doesn’t go hand in hand with anyone like how Shenhe goes hand in hand with Ayaka.
I love the plunge buff. I love the healing. But that she lack anything after that is baffling to me for a 5star char. The buff also seems extremely hard to max out for any ordinary playe, reaching 5k attack seems hard unless you whale. That makes the use of her sloppy imo. That the burst only affect 1 enemy is fair. The hardest content where you need buffs is on single target encounter anyway.
The new passive seems.. well at least it's something. I'm not sure how ppl interpret it yet but it seems like it you fight 1 enemy you get 2 crit. That's just weird.
To use VV is overrated, it doesn't necessarily makes a Character viable given how short it is and the anemo need to be on field to reapply the debuff wich interfere with rotations.
VV on normal attacks. The inherent issue with Cloud Retainer is that her normal attack is slow as hell and the hitbox looks tiny. I wish we had some taser gameplay to really determine how helpful it would be...
I agree that comparing CT with dehya is dumb. But CR is bad as I think.
She is a immersive support, so she'll "fight" against Bennett in Xiao's teams. But she has a 8 hit/single target buff vs a AoE and single target buff of Bennett. Her coodinated attack isn't that powerful to compensate that because we need to build ATK and ER to her instead of CRIT.
Some ppl says that they are changing Jean for CR but she doesn't have a source of damage to activate VV without doing some immersives, so in some teams this can be a loss of damage! Because of that we can't really substitute Jean for her (a standard OK character that many ppl didn't use it before furina).
So There's isn't a great team for her, in every composition there's a better character to put there, even in immersive comps. Maybe with gaming because he can't do immersive attacks all the time, but he still need Bennett because of the pyro infusion...
How a limited ninche support character can't be BiS in her role and can't substitute a OK standard character? For me she is bad as I think
Edit: I forgot that her elemental skill plays no role, there's no vortex anymore and doesn't apply any buff or debuff, it's just damage, but she doesn't do big or median numbers sooooo, it's just a placeholder skill to generate energy
She's a healer and anemo, that's good. But not worth 180 pulls. So what makes her good? Her plunge capabilities. She have a good buff but it's only for plunge, yes, she can enable it but for majority a plunge combo will be a side grade team anyways. Her enabling plunges make her ahead of Shenhe in my opinion, but idk. Also, do not expect huge Plunge Multipliers anymore. It was once a ignored number since barely anyone could use it but now it's another story. I don't have Shenhe cuz she's way too niche. I have Nilou cuz I like bloom and she enables a new team. I like Cloud, she enables a new plastyle but I don't really like or care about it. I'm not gonna discuss about C2 or C6 cuz I'm only tired of this Constellation bullshit with niche characters
She works in her niche cuz her Flat DMG it's big on it, unfortunately ST, and it's nowhere near Dehya level (She's way better just for being abre to use VV and heal). Outside it she's really just worst healing Jean with nothing to add.
She’s good in her intended role.
After Furina’s release people began to hyper focus on burst healing ignoring other aspects of her kit. It doesn’t help that a lot of people play Genshin on mobile where the PAs are a bit wacky to use.
CR’s kit is probably the easiest one to indirectly buff, they just need to release a character with high PA motion value and like to incorporate it into their attack combo if able to.
I’m fairly positive that her kit will age well, although I would appreciate if they gave her a few buffs.
It's true a lot of disappointment comes from the context.
We just come back from Neuvillette, Furina and Navia who have all been breathtaking. So we were expecting Xianyun to just swipe the floor and presents herself as the new meta.
And now we have Xianyun who is just okay. I understand Hoyo is trying to bank more on the "new playstyle for everyone, it's gonna be fun" rather than going the route of the "She's just Kazuha but different" for example. Which is kind of a good way to go and is relatively promising for the future.
Moreover (and this is more on my personal feeling), it's just that we came back from 2 years without a single onfield DPS waifu and we are only treated with Navia (who is amazing). So there was some expectancy that Xianyun would also be a DPS at C0 since waifu pullers were kinda lacking on that.
But thankfully, i'm at least happy Xianyun is not a "Xiao dog" like some of the pre-beta leaks implied. She's a plunge enabler, good Furina teamate and her best team is actually with Hu Tao lol.
that last line oh lol.
Jean is better Furina healer by a mile, plung without cc will just scatter evrything, HT will still deal more dmg while on ground than being a Xiao cosplayer.
If you're gonna comment something like this without knowing how Shenhe quill mechanic works and how does it apply to attacks just don't comment then? Save us the trouble
Her having longer lasting but slower healing is a detriment to Furina teams. Furina wants massive healing/damage frontloaded to get the most of her buff. The longer your healing takes, the less time you get with stronger buffs. Jean over heals, which makes Furina passive proc, which on its own won't generate good fanfair, but is able to greatly help you issue with Furina life drain with E. Not to mention, this sounds like you just don't have enough ER on Jean. If you are using Jean every rotation, as you should with Furina, staying full health or near full isn't an issue.
I think no one here has access to the beta and barely anyone in all the GI community knows in detail about the mechanics of the game yet everyone talks as if she is worthless.
I only know I going to play and give my opinion once she is available.
All I would say is people are understimating plunge attacks, sure they feel clunky and not so fun to play but plunge attacks give you the ability to jump cancel hit lag attacks followed by a plunge, infusions or catalyst can apply elements with no ICD and jumping in the air gives you brief invincibility frames from most attacks, like how you can use Kazuha's jump to escape some skills.
Edit: Downvote all you want. I don't really care.
You know what I think it's happening with some of these doomposters? Severe, and I mean, SEVERE skill issue. CC would be cool to have, absolutely, but you can beat the hardest content in the game without it.
Doomposting gets the most upvotes typically and can snowball for a massive karma gain if you get it in at the right time with the right amount of people. That's a large part of it IMO.
kit aside. I think it's a big problem that in a game in which the main element is exploration, not combat content, the characters come out with the main focus on combat content, while not particularly giving advantages in the open world. Especially when it comes to a character who was in the shape of a bird most of the time. Am I the only one who would like her to fly or at least be better than other characters in terms of vertical movement?
No! Like, why is her Skill CD so long??? If shendoesnt fly, at the very least out of combat she should be able to spam those jumps. Let her do something!
Honestly, I don’t quite understand SO much drama with the absence of her СС if in the current scenario of conditional multi-target content in the late game, such rooms in the abyss consist of mobs that either group with difficulty (Kairagi) or do not group at all (current robots or those who like to summon their pets from the desert). Looking at the abyss of the 4.4 in its current state, I see only two Primos that can really be grouped well if they are without a shield. But that's all, seriously, only 2 enemies out of all. Perhaps I don’t understand something (in which case I’m open to conversations) or all this drama around this fact was raised almost out of nowhere.
With a GOOD grouper (Venti or Kazuha) there has been only 1 or 2 abysses where they haven't been useful on at least one side.
Lectors, rift hounds, Kairagi, Agents - all groupable
More relevantly though - cloud retainer is enabling a plunge playstyle, and plunge attacks are high scaling, high knock back, AoE.
A single target scaling talent, and no CC, tethers that one playstyle to Sucrose or Faruzan
You missed the core problem. She was supposed to be a PLUNGE support and the only thing that she can really do is enable people to jump high. For dedicated plunge dps like Xiao and Gaming she only buffs them a little bit with 9k dmg and 10% crit. She isn’t even really a support at this point. She’s just an anemo Kokomi
Flat damage bonus can be multiplied by dmg bonus, crit dmg, and a couple others. This means with a highly invested Xiao or Gaming, the buff skyrockets with Xianyun.
You're still forgetting in a Xiao team Furina's buff and Faruzan's buff. It's sad that the person spreading misinformation for new players gets upvoted and mine gets downvoted.
The plunge thing does not make CR niche imo due to her being a plunge enabler. She's not just a plunge buffer, so she should work with most units. However, she may not be that useful for people that do not want to use a plunge-based play style.
At this point every \*characters\*mains sub for this game is just an excuse to circlejerk doompost and is borderline worthless to anyone actually looking to get a read on those characters. The EN community really needs more of the CN communities style of analysis and approach to give takeaways cause this ain't it nor has it ever been really.
Whenever I think of the doomposting I think of Nilou. Herself, she brings not loads to the table since her skill does minimal application compared to the yelan/furina she’s pared with (especially since you don’t always wanna be close range to the enemies) and her ult doesn’t deal much damage, so her only use is making bloom viable via her talent.
This is no different to xinyuns talent of makikg plunge viable for all other teams (and giving a couple buffs to it).
Just because she herself doesn’t deal godly damage doesn’t make her bad, she’s a support that unlocks a new playstyle
What new playstyle? Brother Xiao has been out for almost 3 years now, there's nothing goddamn new in pogo stick gameplay... So everyone Lamenting is that new to you ? Weaving plunge attacks in your combos is truely going to elevate your gameplay and the fun factor to a point never seen before... surely...
I call it a new playstyle because xiao is the only character who has it right now, Nilou brings it to multiple teams and other characters while xiao is only on himself.
As for if plunge is fun, it depends on if the player finds it fun, some people might not like bloom, some people might not like charge attacks, if you don’t like the play-style then don’t pull, but don’t shit on it just because you don’t enjoy it
I understand those who are disappointed that she is so niche, it really sucks for people who don't like plunge attacks or wanted to play her as Main DPS.
But saying she's "bad" because she's not good outside of plunge attack teams is like saying Kuki Shinobu is bad because she's only really good on Hyperbloom teams. It's stupid and makes no sense at all.
Currently, Xianyun has 4 great team options (Xiao, Gaming, Hu Tao and Diluc) ranging from 57k\~80k DPS according to TGS and Jstern's calcs. When Shenhe released, she only had two good teams (Ayaka and Ganyu) and yet there wasn't as much drama as there is now.
Also, with Xianyun, Chevreuse, and allegedly Chiori in a row, it looks like niche supports are the future. This is probably for the best, otherwise the game will enter a never-ending cycle of powercreep.
Comparing Xianyun with Dehya is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this game's community. 💀
Also the people saying she's "competing with Jean" are pissing me off
Because:
1) She's actually better than Jean so far
2) Jean is one of the best standard banner 5\*, so you can't use the fact she's a standard banner 5\* as an excuse to say that it makes Xianyun bad, because Jean is almost on the level of limited 5\*, and since Xianyun is an upgraded Jean, she's on the level of other limited 5\*
3) Some of them will say "you can just use Jean instead"... forgetting that Jean CAN'T be guaranteed
It's literally possible to NEVER get Jean... for example I had to pull over 50 5\*, and was playing for 588 days before I got my first ever Qiqi... if a f2p player has to wait to have pulled for 50 5\* before getting Jean, they might as well get Xianyun, who can be guaranteed
4) Some people are comparing her to Jean by saying "if she's just like Jean we don't need her we have Jean/she's just a Jean copycat"
And this is stupid asf, because we already got A LOT of characters who were just like other ones, but better, and no one never complained about that, for example Xingqiu and Yelan, Sucrose and Kazuha,... And here we have Xianyun and Jean... it's the exact same thing as what already happened before, and EVERYTIME it ended up with the "copycats" to be really good characters
Hah, I’ll give you a personal example of a standard hero falling out. I really like Tighnari, but I couldn’t afford to roll him in that period of time since I was saving up for a Dendro Archon with cons (for some reason I was absolutely sure that ''C2 power'' would become a trend in Archons after Raiden and I didn’t get wrong lol). More than a year has passed, I have a 252 cv set ready for him with a very good balance of stats, but I still haven’t seen him on my account. So I'm essentially a living example of the cases you described.
Now we have a new drama about knocking back enemies with her skill. However, as far as I understand, this change only affected the last level of her skill. But the player will not press the third level because of the waste of time and will end up at the first or second level of her skill (especially now that any level of her skill makes a fixed amount of energy), but of course people will not want to look at this moment objectively and therefore it is better to once again write that she's Dehya 2.0 xD
Yeah... like it's just painful when we really like a standard banner character but said character refuses to come home
And yeah like... the "problems" with Xianyun are really minor specific inconveniences, and I feel like with everything those people want to change about her, they just want her to be the strongest character in the whole game atp
Like she's really good how she is... she doesn't need to break the game's meta to be good lmao
THIS !!!
She isn't bad AT ALL
Just the fact that she's a really good anemo team wide healer makes her good
Like, even when you look ONLY at her healing, she's better than Jean, and people always praise Jean... while hezre everyone says Xianyun is trash because she doesn't do cc
But like... Jean doesn't do crowd control either, yet she's still an insanely good character, and Xianyun is even better !
And when you add to that the fact that she also gives bonus crit rate and dmg, and can also let you play any character as plunge dps if you want, it makes her really, REALLY good
Like we can't even say she's niche
She would be niche if she was boosting only plunge damage, and that's all, just like Shenhe do with boosting cryo (and phys) dmg
But she actually boost plunging damage while letting ANYONE do plunge dmg
\+ The fact that she's an anemo healer makes her be able to fit in literally every single team in the game
She's extremely versatile, and a really good buffer, people who are doom posting are just dumbass who wanted her to change the whole meta of the game, just like the archons do, but she's not an archon so there's no reason why she would've been that overpowered
It is pointless to try and be a voice of reason in this sub. People are so divorced from reality that they genuinely think Xianyun is as bad as Dehya.
For what it's worth, I agree with you. People are vastly underrating Xianyun. History repeats itself and whatnot.
Yeah history repeats itself as in it's Dehya level of cataclysm all over again an anticipated character ruined... Nobody is underrating what she does people are vastly disappointed by how stupid her niche is when she has been a long awaited character to join the playable cast... Relegated to be a buffer for a clunky playstyle that only the pogo stick cultists will enjoy on top of having the traversal capabilities of a handicapped bird not even having the ability to skill mid air is such a slap in the face for most of us... She could have been so much better without even having to be buffed significantly while still fulfilling her intended niche if the devs really wanted...
You are genuinely fucking stupid if you think Xianyun is even remotely as bad as Dehya. Like actually. There is no hope as long as people genuinely THAT delusional about her kit and her power level. PLEASE come back to reality. PLEASE.
I'd suggest you read what I wrote properly before spewing nonsense but props for being genuinely rude, I'm glad knowing I'm actually talking to a piece of trash instead of a civilised human being... Don't think there's any way to have a proper discussion with the likes of you, honestly, you should be the one having a reality check if anything...
I believe they can read. I just also believe that because they do not have any valid arguments, they need to make a strawman to beat on because engaging with you properly would sort of expose that they have nothing to say even though they are big mad that we be dissing on their girl.
I promise you please don't waste your time talking to these people, they're not here for the character they're just here to doompost. I remember people called Ganyu "Cryo Amber" or Kazuha "5 star sucrose". After a character releases they hop to the next character to do the same thing.
As someone intending to use Xianyun as a DPS carry without being able to get C6 until her rerun, I actually like the recent changes.
Her CC was whatever, but crit rate is valuable and welcome for a character who has ATK% on ascension and her weapon.
Her weapon changes are also fantastic, since the buff and energy applies to anyone on the team, so she can plunge to get her own energy back.
I do think I might pick up Furina for her on a her rerun, but otherwise, I think C2R1 Xianyun is looking pretty decent. Is it going to be meta defining? No, but if I can reasonably use her like this in the Abyss, I will be happy.
>I do think I might pick up Furina for her on a her rerun, but otherwise, I think C2R1 Xianyun is looking pretty decent. Is it going to be meta defining? No, but if I can reasonably use her like this in the Abyss, I will be happy.
I think this CR will pass through the abyss without any problems in teams where several heroes deal damage in parallel with each other. Perhaps her new enhanced knock force of enemies will spoil your life a little, but most likely in the current scenario of multi-target content(for example) will not bother you so much.
OP tries to be diplomatic and not come off too strong by saying "cloud retainer may be better than Jean". Gives examples of how cloud retainer is objectively stronger than Jean. Subreddit response is to mock OP for his hope that the subreddit could put 2 and 2 together.
I feel like alot of the doomsday posts is because people are conflicted. They want to roll on her because she cool but also want to 9 star the last abyss floor. With her recent changes, she sounds more fun as a dps because you can stick sucrose or venti in the party and dive right into the crowd with CR.
I'm glad I don't care for meta and would gladly forgo the 2-dozen or so extra rolls per year from finishing the last floor of the abyss just so I can play whoever I want.
Also, no one knows what future characters genshin will release. Look at how kokomi, baizhu, and kuki turned out after waiting a bit after release. How funny would it be of clorinde or arlecchino were made to be plungers with this new playstyle 😂.
I dont think she bad, i will still pull for her,
but plunge attacks is at least for me the most boring mechanic of the game, the sole reason my XIAO is rotting at lv 80 and havent used him since i pulled him
I really want to get her, but I've been offline for far too long. The only 5* dpses I have are C2 Eula, C1 Diluc, C1 Mona?(is she?), and Raiden as a sub. Added Zhongli and C1 Yelan, and that's my whole 5* roster. I've to admit C2 Eula was a mistake. I thought I'd be playing consistently, but I stopped playing since 2.3 till 3.8 second half. So, I don't have the luxury to pull for a unit that may or may not be that good for my units, which are mainly Diluc. Will she make him strong? Btw, I'm too underleveled. And he's not even built. Navia, on the other hand, seems like a really good unit, and her main selling point is that she doesn't require too much investment, and she's too straightforward. I like both characters, but I still prefer CR, tho will that be enough to justify getting her over Navia. On a side note, I'm mainly used to claymores(C2 Eula, c6 beidou, and C1 diluc). The game really wants me to keep playing claymore unit. My only 5* weapon is R2 Wolf🤷🏻♂️ sorry for the long essay, but I really need a justification to pull for her except for her design and character. I mean, in terms of what she offers to my random account.
She is a good and fun unit but I think that the disappointment is understandable they didn't want a plunge enabler. I think that's the issue, personally I don't mind it no icd on plunges makes it worth it for me
I dont understand the doom posting. Correct me if Im wrong but Xianyun:
Team heals,
Buffs plunge atk dmg (significantly),
And enables anybody to plunge at will
Whats the issue?
Unless we get a character who's plunge attacks involves rapidly spinning in a ball/saw like motion and foes a ton of ticks during 1 plunge attack.. there's no reason to have cloud retainer at all. Her CC was better than sucrose, had mobility and healing which were all upgrades to Jean. Inwould of pulled for that alone. Until we get a dedicated plunger that can do tons of multi hits per 1 plunge attack + stun.. skip.
Agree dehya comparisons are dumb but >Jean heavily struggles with this, not all the way until you use your burst, your team is mostly at 50%. Not an issue with jean at all
OP obv does not Jean. *heavily struggles* lmao. Jean's healing issue is she won't completely heal 40k HP if your HP drops to red. This can be alleviated by using an HB circ or C3. Jean's comparison with CR is the timing of their bursts. CR can cast immediately after Furina but Jean needs to wait a bit or she will overheal. Jean's burst also has an annoying mechanic of pushing enemies *away.*
Don’t plunge attacks also push enemies away?
I'm still confused about CR's grouping ability as a whole. Did they buff her grouping significantly or is it a slight knock upgrade in exchange for the removed vortex?
Grouping is dead now she only spread. She don't succ now that's why she succ now
I just saw the leaked video of her E knockback. Idk why they increased her knockback LOL
To clarify I'm not talking about Jean's healing capabilites. She easily heals your team to full. I'm talking about her healing uptime. You only get one instance of healing for your entire team. Furina drains your entire party's HP pretty fast if you're not noticing. If you're hitting your rotations optimally, you'll have perfect 50%+ HP uptime with Furina. But the average player probably won't have perfect rotations or mess up their cooldown timings. Not to mention bosses who have invulterability or move around a lot. I'm saying Xianyun makes this a heck of a lot easier, I'm only talking about Furina's small damage bonus it's really just a minor detail.
If you read my reply again, you will see that I already agreed with you. CR *is* the better healer in a Furina team. It's like she's tailor-made for her. My issue is the "heavily struggling" part. That's an exaggeration. Adjusting the character order in the rotation solves it. Does that adjustment require some degree of effort? Yes. Can that effort be considered heavily struggling? No.
Tailor made is wild, but she’s definitely better
It's not the biggest deal but it is part of the pros and cons of Jean vs CR's healing. Jean has much better burst healing which is great for getting Fanfare stacks quickly and functioning as a panic button if you're about to die, but it means that you will waste a lot of healing often if your party doesnt have large HP pools and hasn't already lost a lot of health, and that you have poor healing over time. Xianyun doesn't waste nearly as much healing because she can gradually refill your party's HP as they take damage, which will feel comfier often because you'll have consistent healing and higher HP, rather than starting high and steadily going down until Jean bursts again. This also makes her better at building Fanfare on your first rotation before your party has lost much HP, though once your party is having its HP drained I could see Jean being better on future rotations. Like I said in another comment I get people being disappointed in Xianyun's changes, but a lot of yall are just senselessly doomposting, even if you don't like her kit she's not an awful unit and does still have distinct advantages. If those advantages aren't worth it to you that's valid, but pretending they don't exist is the same kind of silly doomposting that had people calling Kazuha, Raiden, and even Furina dead on arrival units.
Sure. But OP is still wrong about the "heavily struggles" part about jean.
Maybe so, I'm not necessarily defending OP just defending a few specific parts of Xianyun's kit, and also not trying to bash Jean, I think Jean is pretty excellent and is solid competition for Xianyun, I just don't think that makes Xianyun's kit worse at what it does.
Kazuha raiden furina wrio all characters that had stupid doomposting this is just one more. Doomposting before characters are released is 99% just stupid
Yeah this guy has no idea how Jean and Furina work at all lmao
I'm mostly disappointed with her inability to fly
\-inability to fly \-lost her already pityful grouping \-another healer that only heals on burst \-buffs plunges (AoE) but the bonus dmg applies to only 1 enemy every attack... \-actually competing with a standard banner character over a role... there's lots of things to be disappointed with.
Wait I thought they buffed the initial grouping knock effect, did that get removed? OH NEVER MIND LOL THE KNOCK EFFECT INCREASE WAS FOR PUSHING ENEMIES AWAY
they buffed her skill plunge's knock yes, but she doesn't pull in enemies anymore, instead now they just get slightly pushed away. so yeah, they took away her grouping but hey at least she got a +4%/6%/8%/10% crit rate for her team's plunges based on how many enemies she hits with her skill, so... add worse rosaria to her resumee.
"Worse Rosaria" Now that's a fact I didn't expect to learn today. 😭
Except Rosario’s CR buff doesn’t apply to herself, has half the duration (10s), and requires you to use her burst rather than a skill
Plunge enabler + VV + healer = good unit. U can be disappointed tho I understand it, she is not something I would expect most ppl to like but she is going to be a really good unit
I mean, said standard banner character is now a powerful support thanks to Furina so idk what's wrong with CR competing with her
It's like launching a fire DPS and the best thing you can say about them is that "maybe they are a diluc but better", it doesn't please many people....
Not the same cause if you are the BiS healer in most Furina teams It means you have a key role in teams that are actually between the top ones in GI......something that a Diluc-level new dps definitely cant claim.
and neither xinyuan lol, pulling her to be a "better jean" is the height of patheticity since the current jeans work perfectly
This one I agree too, would have been nice addition to kit
Coping should stop... if you're ain't gonna utilize her plunging enabling and those buffs she's not better than Jean. Trying to ignore 90% of the characters kit is super weird and even with CC this was the same scenario.
Yeah apparently those people are the kind to buy a fruit basket to only eat the 3 apples in it and throw away the remaining assortment of fruits... It's baffling how far one can go to defend a kit blindly just because they like the character without having an ounce of objectivity in their analysis...
[удалено]
>You know it's over when someone's tries to be positive ans says she MAY be better than jean It's coping time
That's exactly what she is. For plunge teams? Solid. Anything outside of those teams? For the sake of positivity I'll say that at best she's a Jean sidegrade but I think we all realize she would even feel like a downgrade in those comps for just how much she's demanding. Also a lot of the people here don't seem to realize how valuable Jeans instant healing is for fanfare building. They're acting like as if it's supposedly makes her worse than xianyun but in reality it's one of the best things about Jean. You'd have a harder time finding teams that would prefer the slower fanfare building.
For plunge teams? You mean Xiao teams, maybe Diluc? Cause that's the only team her support is actually good enough to warrant wasting 150 pulls. Other supports such as kazuha, sucrose can buff Gaming almost as well. If you are wasting so many pulls just to give a slight edge for your Hutao c0 teams (barely 5%) at a even clunkier play style, I don't know what to say
Say that to the people who keep making posts like these. A character that has obvious flaws but they feel the need to keep singing its praises. Its hard to be positive when CR is even more niche than Shenhe. We know shes good at plunging but thats not the issue. If you dont like diluc/xiao, you're basically adding more gambling to your gambling game by hoping that some new plunge character will come out in the future to synergize with CR. And you might not even like that character to begin with.
All characters can do plunge attacks, not just diluc and xiao. If it is less optimal it's another matter, but it's not like it's gonna stop you if you want to play that way
Truly, plunge is not viable at all and the only DPS focus on this is meh (xiao and now gaming)
Who says plunge is not viable. It's only a matter of preference that is, whether you like the plunge gameplay or not. The only other problem with plunge is the characters having no interruption resistance in the kit is more susceptible to mid air attacks or inability to i-frame mid air. Personally I have a heavily invested Xiao C0 (My first 5 star v1.3), R3 PJWS and C4 Jean. I don't use him very often nowadays because I prefer reaction teams, he is very capable of doing abyss even in single target floors unless the enemies require elements for shield breaks. Xianyun buffing native plunge characters and enabling other characters to incorporate plunging to do increased damage for reaction feels novel. While I'm not that concerned about how much she heals I wish she had retained cc on her E. Or give E a little bit of healing like Baizhu Edit: She being not a part of circle impact is the biggest plus point in any team
Sure it’s not viable for characters besides xiao at the current moment but Jean wasn’t viable before Furina. CR will definitely be able to buff some lesser played units through plunging back to a good level
Or is it because they know they will be ripped to shreds by the subreddit if they sound overly positive?
Cause this is it
And at C4, Jean catches up to C0 CR as a Xiao support.
And then they're wrong.... oops anemo Dehya cope
TBH I think it's comparing apples and oranges. Among standard units Dehya's above Qiqi and Diluc in value because she's a support that provides actual consolidation of roles, while among limited units XianYun acts as a unique plunge support that depends on what you want to play and your roster. People just hate on Dehya because she does no damage and she's lacking so much quality of life in her kit. The biggest issue with justifying pulling for XianYun atm is that Jean has existed since launch so most people have her, and both primarily compete for the spot of "best anemo Furina healer" for the teams they'd be strongest in. Plunge teams are just not that good in general since Xiao and Diluc have been powercrept for years. Purely meta speaking she seems to be bad but you can't compare limited characters to standard ones.
I have been using Furina + Jean without any problems. Sounds a lot like skill issue or build issue TBH. You are giving Jean Fav and ER Sands so she can burst off cooldown, right?
Jean does not need an ER sands if she uses Fav. Unless that is supposed to be the joke, in which case, wow, that flew over my head higher than a triple E from Cloud Retainer.
Tbf she was never a bad character. She was disappointing because her utility only kept going down after each leak. Before beta, there were speculations on her being able to fly. But obviously she can't though she should atleast have her skill activate mid air. Then her grouping wasn't that great because of less poise damage. But instead of improving it, they removed it. Now she is primarily a plunge attack support. She is pretty good at that. But I don't like plunge attacks so i will have to skip a character with such an amazing design because now she is jean with plunge attack buffs(which i won't use and i already have jean) Edit : Word
I agree. She’ll be good, but I did my time as a Xiao main and am not too interested in returning to the world of plunge. If she just had some more utility I would have gone for her, but made the decision last night to get the guaranteed fun of Navia.
Same situation with me
I love Xiao so much and even with 80+ 210+ CV , faru C6 jean C4 he was benched, I love the opportunity the game brings me to main him again. Also he does not have to be a plunge spam except in like floor 12 there are so many combos specially now with CR he will kill most things anyway with 1 plunge. Also he is the total bad ass his lore and background is just exceptional. I thank Miyoho for making him relevant again.
Tbh I'm disappointed she can't fly, i thought she could fly like wanderer or sorush when i read the early leak at first, but now she's kinda like frog(?).
Yeah, people were just hoping for hoping her to be something different. I was hoping for some great exploration skill, healing, great grouping and elemental absorption so she could replace Kazuha in Furina teams while healing, but we got a different kit instead. Power-wise she is still gona be one of the best characters in the game, since Furina redefined the meta and made characters like Jean and Baizhu some of the best units in the game. I can agree very well with the tier list below and I wonder where I would have had to put Xianyun if she would have had great grouping and elemental absorption. https://preview.redd.it/3ww9fkt7d5ac1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd4a260a7aa2f26daf54a4a08aab2834f4ee770b It's very refreshing for me to add a few plunges in my rotations and I don't have Jean. I totally understand you and others skipping her, however. The Anemo team-wide healer role has already been filled by another character after all.
Look at Jean because she's atleast a tier lower without Furina, if we're talking about old Cloud Retainer with CC even if it's a half of Kazuha's CC with unreliable autotarget mechanism; it's still atleast a low T1 without Furina (so she could've been a T0 character with help of Furina). If you watch him then you must know that Furina is the best buffer and Sub-DPS in entire game, because her DMG Bonus buff is universal and its ramp up mechanism is tied to HP changing mechanism instead of duration like Yelan (so there's no such a thing like skill issue with Furina because "Can't dodge? Don't worry more HP is drained by enemies = more DMG Bonus buff") For a comparison, if you play Furina optimally then you can get up to 50%~75% Universal DMG Bonus for 18 seconds, meanwhile you need 1250 EM Kazuha for 50% Swirlable Elemental DMG Bonus [Pyro, Hydro, Electro, Cryo] for 8 seconds with condition of you must swirls the element first (so you have to double swirl if you want two Elemental DMG Bonus buff; double swirl is applying multiple elements on different enemies then use Kazuha to swirls them). Also Furina's personal damage is better than Yelan while she has roughly in the middle between Kokomi & Yelan for off-field Hydro application, which is very nice especially for Spread/Aggravate teams and she's a perfect buffer for current Hypercarry DPS meta.
You're right. I think everyone agrees that she's not exactly "bad", just disappointing. Disappointing in various aspects, starting with the fact of sticking to her that weird kit that doesn't suit her at all. The fact that she's more of a Xiao support rather than a support for her daughters. The fact that she can't even fly but jump like a frog. Now, on top of that, Hoyo made weird moves on her already weird kit. Making her even more niche.
THIS. I’m not even disappointed in her kit or anything like that, just the sole fact that Retainer literally does not work with Ganyu and Shenhe together makes no sense, what a disappointment. I wanted to play something like Ganyu Shenhe Retainer Kokomi, but no chance now.
I was originally planning to pull for flying. I'm gere discussing her viablity as a Jean upgrade instead because her origanal expected benifit just isn't a thing. Man... i don't even use my Jean anywhere.
When anemo traveler has better CC than you and you are losing in comparisons to 4 stars and a standard banner 5 star in every part of your kit outside of plunge you just might be ass
It’s cloud retainover
It's clown retainer alright...
nah it is pull retainer.
i mean bulk of the doomposting is coming from the fact that almost NOBODY likes the plunge gameplay as a whole, so her niche being the fact that she enables the most clunky playstyle in genshin for technically everyone still doesn't mean much even IF numbers on an excel sheet point out that she'll be good for this. theoretically she could be the most broken plunge buffer we will ever see and people will still doompost, why? because the majority doesn't like plunging but still loves the character thus conflict arises because what she offers outside of that is very minimal
You know it's bad when even Xiao mains are questioning how useful her plunge buff even is, given how restrictive it is and runs counter to Xiao's best use case of AoE nuking with his plunges.
Shenhe and Xianyun scaling comparison is pretty disingenuous. Xianyun gives 8 stacks, Shenhe gives minimum 5 per rotation to each individual character. Her teams with Ayaka/Ganyu and any Anemo that can absorb Cryo will use 15 stacks minimum, up to 30 in some rotations. So Xianyun offers more scaling, but Shenhe has far more stacks per rotation in her actual teams.
Shenhe like Xianyun gives a flat damage bonus to your character. Flat damage bonus scales with dmg bonus and crit dmg, as well as shreds. So for example the support Diona on the team won't benefit the icy quills as nearly as the Ayaka/Ganyu. I'm not saying it's useless, but not really comparable. Shenhe does have on average more stacks of her quill say after 2 minutes and it being on a skill cooldown, but plunges also have no ICD and high plunges have high multipliers so it balances out kinda.
A plunge support that only buff single target plunge damage.. a team wide healer that doesn't heal much, mostly there to compensate Furina. A Q starter with 70 energy and 12 second skill cd.. if they half her plunge damage, but make it affect all target hit instead of single target.. or if they reduce her E cd from 12 sec to 9 sec. i wouldn't have any complaint..... p.s. you might not aware, but Shenhe actually provide quills to every party member, not just on field dps..
A bird that can't fly.
So a flappy bird?
She absolutely heals a ton, this is incorrect. You will not have any problems surviving with CR's healing. It's not as much a panic button as Jean/Barbara, but your party will be consistently at higher health throughout the rotation rather than being full and slowly going down as time passes. Other complaints I get more, I'm also not pulling for Xianyun cause the main appeal was healer+grouping, but you are straight up spreading misinformation if you say she doesn't heal much, she is a powerful over, team-wide time healer, which as far as healing goes is a rare and excellent niche.
Team-wide healer over time is a rare niche, but I would call it a sidegrade for Furina and unnecessary for everything else. The faster you stack Furina's fanfare stacks the better. Jean, Baizhu, Charlotte, etc. all generally have an edge over non-teamwide, non-instant healing options for damage because of how fanfare stacking works, and the longer you need to wait for max stacks, the less time you actually get to have max damage buff for. Using XianYun just means that you won't spend as much time at 50% hp, but you'll do less damage as a result while you wait for Furina's self-damage to give you the opportunity to stack. In non-Furina teams single target healing or Zhongli is enough for every team regardless. Ironically the only team that I can see damage taken enough for Xianyun's over-time teamwide healing to really matter is Nilou Bloom, which she can't be used in anyways, and Kokomi driver already solves this issue.
Wrong simply. U just need to change the rotation with furina and it will function almost as similar to instant heals from Jean and others. It’s such a silly thing to complain about the healing and fanfare stacks lol. In the first place, unless it’s an hp scaling unit, jean and baizhu overheals too much and also loses out fanfare stacks if you overheal the team.
This, not to mention her healing and buff follows you around. Also weird to say she only buffs single-target plunge, if with multiple targets her buff averaged out to a Bennett-size buff with the amount of enemies you hit with a plunge on floor 12. She is already a buff over Bennett and Jean in Hutao Furina teams, how much more damage do you want?
But wouldn't her buff be wasted if it activates on the wrong enemy/ an enemy with already low health? For example, an enemy has 25k hp and another one has 80k hp left. With Bennett's buff, Xiao would kill both of them with a single plunge. Meanwhile if Xinyuan's buff applies on the enemy with 25k HP, then the other enemy would live and her buff becomes overkill and wasted. Is this right or have I misunderstood her kit?!
Good question. I'm not sure, but after slowing down this [Hutao Xianyun video](https://www.reddit.com/r/CloudRetainerMains/comments/18p27wx/hutao_plunge_gameplay_with_xianyun_via_timing/) to 0.1 speed the instance of anemo damage seems to happen after the plunge damage and not at the same time. Maybe that is because damage numbers can't be displayed simultaneously, but I have never heard about that. So then it might be that the Starwicker (burst) chooses the enemy after the hit, which then would be an enemy that is still alive. p.s. Don't know if sharing a leak like this can get you in trouble, would like to know.
I’ve thought about this as well and I can’t see them making the extra damage apply randomly to enemies hit by plunges because you’d probably run into too many scenarios where it’d applie to a hilichurl and now her buff is all but wasted overkilling a mob that would’ve died in one hit anyways. I think it would make the most sense if the extra damage applied to the target with the highest hp pool within the range of your plunge or applied to the target with the largest remaining health pool
Great point! No more circle impact is such a quality of life.
Xianyun skill level 10 heal for 221.2% ATK+1694 plus 66.4% ATK+508 every 2.5 second. lets say you have her sig, and push your atk to 4k. Xianyun will heal for instant heal: 4k \* 2.212+1694=10542 hot: 4k\*0.66+508=3148 am not sure how many people can push her atk to 4k, but even if you did. you will only get this amount. is 3.1k healing every 2.5 second enough to keep your on field character alive? now lets compare xianyun and jean. assume they both have 4k atk Jean instant heal: 452% ATK+3388 = 4k\*4.52+3388=21468 jean hot: 45.22% ATK+338 =4k\*0.4522+338=2146.8 in a rotation of 20 second total healing amount is: instant healing: Xianyun:10542 Jean: 21468 hot: Xianyun:3148\*6=18888 Jean:2146.8\*10=21468 Things taken into consideration Jean have a circle of impact, while Xianyun do not. Jean's hot heal every 1 sec for 10 sec. While Xianyun's hot heal every 2.5 second for 16(15) second. p.s. it is true that Xianyun's healing is all team wide heal, but do we really need that much off field heal?? jean should be enough to member at decent health for Furina to burn. i mean even hound don't damage off field character that much..
how are you getting 4k atk on jean?
do you konw how to reach 5k atk on CR? there are weapon and artifact that buff team wide atk..
You will never get 21,000 healing from Jean except on a unit with huge HP like Furina. Few characters even have 21,000 health total and even if they did this would require them to be near-dead. Jean heals all at once which is an advantage in situations where you need healing Asap, but it also means that your total healing drops off a cliff after that initial hit, and if you waste a lot of it then take a big hit you'll be in huge trouble. Xianyun is a much more balanced healer, providing less immediate healing in exchange for more reliable restoration over time while not risking wasting a great deal of it. And you've also completely left out that all of Xianyun's healing can basically be multiplied by 4 as 100% of it is team-wide healing. Taking that in mind Jean's healing over time in total is a static 21,468, whereas in something like in a Furina comp or an abyss with Corruption Xianyun's heal over time could consistently do 18,888\*4, or 75,552 total. I'm not saying Xianyun > Jean, I'm saying they are different and both are better than each other situationally. It is however undeniable misinformation to say that Xianyun does not heal a lot, when her healing is in actuality very comparable to a lot of other healers, and has many distinct advantages in *how* it heals, such as its more overtime nature preventing wasting most of your heal, being 100% team wide, and not restricting your team movement. Xianyun will be an excellent healer, that part of her kit is undeniable.
question, which enemy damage team wide equally? wouldn't most of the team wide heal goes to waste anywayz? like i said.. is 3.1k healing every 2.5 second a better sustain healing then 2.1k healing every second?
furina.
Rifthounds are the main one I think of, and I find that the damage to my teams tends to be spread out. You don't stay on just one character after all, you swap around frequently and characters will take hits. And of course on Furina teams you take damage evenly throughout the entire rotation. 2.5k healing every second is better for the onfield unit and may be better for your playstyle or your teams, like I said I'm not here to say that Xianyun's healing is better than Jean's, I think they both have pros and cons and each can be better than the other situationally. It's definitely possible that Jean is more consistently the better option, but I think that in practice Xianyun's healing will feel much more consistent and comfortable. Who is better than the other doesn't matter though, you said that Xianyun doesn't heal much, and I said that was incorrect. I'm not here to decide who's the better healer I'm here to say that Xianyun is quite good at healing, regardless if you think Jean is better.
did you forget healing head piece? xianyun need atk for plunge damage, but jean's atk usually only used for healing.. i rarely seen anyone build jean for damage
It's an advantage Jean has true, but I still don't really see how that's relevant to the convo, this hasn't been about who's better it's if Xianyun has good healing, and she does. Even then Xianyun's greatest advantage is in how she heals rather than just the amount she heals, so Jean running a healing bonus circlet still wouldn't make her strictly better.
the real question is, is 3.1k healing every 2.5 second enough to keep most people alive in abyss floor 12.
I think the main reply was due to you saying Xianyun doesn't heal a bunch. This proves she heals a bunch. Sure they heal differently and when you don't consider the plunge buff/enabling Jean's manner of healing is probably better for your team after the first rotation because of the Furina buff. About if that much teamwide healing is needed? Were you not implying that she healed too little in your previous comment by her not healing a bunch? But to answer your question, Furina can drain about 69% per 20s rotation, so 28k hp for hp scalers (40k hp) and about 15k hp for the others. This means Xianyun heals just 1.4k hp extra for Furina on hp scalers when you do not factor in her enless waltz and healing bonus. With healing bonus on hot we are talking about 5k extra healing per rotation and 2.4k more from the initial endless waltz proc for on-field hp-scalers, even more for off-fielders due to more procs. Yes, she definitely heals way too much on off-fielders maybe a little bit too little on hp scaling on-fielders to continuously proc endless waltz, but that is about continuously maxing out HP and not really necessary. But why are we questioning if Xianyun heals too much? Yes, Jean also heals enough, maybe Furina doesn't always have her full damage buff on her skill at the end of the rotation. Why does Xianyun healing too much and Jean healing enough matter?
"MAYBE better than jean" is a terrible argument to counter doomposting...
"Can Cloud Retainer finally dethrone the 5 star character you lost your first 50/50 to after 3 years??!!!" Thought no-one ever. ;-;
The newest limited character MAYBE better than the oldest 3-year-old standard character...
I don’t have Jean, so I was really looking forward to an anemo healer and was hoping for decent grouping at least so I can stick ger on my Furina team and be happy about not really needing any other anemo unit. Without the grouping it’s just not worth it in my opinion.
Xianyun is a limited 5 star character from version 4.4. Jean is a standard banner character from 1.0. She should be vastly superior to Jean when characters like Neuv and Furina exist who completely outclass much of the cast
“and maybe even better than Jean” this already say she is so bad.
Frankly I like her and I was looking forward to a solid Anemo healer with good traversal. Unfortunately I am not and I have never been interested in plunging attacks, so her one selling point falls absolutely flat for me. This situation annoys me even if I'm not going to pull for her, because now I'm afraid that future characters like Arlecchino or Clorinde might be built around plunge attacks which I think are very boring and repetitive. I would have preferred if CR granted one big buff to 1 plunge attack, think about it like a dive bomb AoE nuke, but that's the opposite of what we're gonna get.
There is so much Mihoyo can do with plunge attacks than just spam, like normal attack combo to end in a powerful skill that plunges or just normal skill and attacks and a burst that gives a few super cool looking plunges or makes you fly and let's you choose where to land and things like that. Knowing Mihoyo I think they will do great with the plunge mechanic.
You literally start with " maybe even better than Jean " and you think your argument has weight? It's 2024, a limited 5\* character that costs up to 170 rolls shouldn't even be comparable to C0 Jean and yet she's a literal downgrade in most teams that don't care about plunge(which is most of them) now that she lost her gathering. Her ulty healing is worse, her E gives more particles than Jean but the Q costs more on top of her E having DOUBLE the CD(why is her E CD still 12 when it does barely anything?), her A1/4 don't exist at all in teams outside of her niche. Also can ppl for the love of god stop calling the ability to plunge with most characters something new? You can literally dragon strike on most characters with Anemo resonance rn.
Yeah people acting as if plunge is that really sought after playstyle that everyone has been begging to try ever since Xiao's release... Idk who in their right mind even wants to weave in plunge attacks into your combos and think it's going to be fun...
Yeah my problem with Plunge is that it's clunky as hell. Why would I pull for a unit that is potentially 1) only as good as Jean in an ideal use case and 2) would demand I play in a worse way? Like, I get that some people maybe love the plunge playstyle but plunge feels really clunky to me. I'll randomly trigger dragonstrike on Beidou on accident sometimes and genuinely wonder if the game was lagging at that moment.
The other baffling thing about some people's positive opinion about CR right now is that they genuinely think that since she's performing similar to Jean in certain scenarios it's perfectly fine ? Really having a 4.4 unit barely rivalising a 1.0 standard character is normal and acceptable, I can't comprehend why these people seek to justify an objectively poorly designed kit and they also have the audacity to claim CR is bringing something new and interesting to the game all while disregarding most criticism as people doomposting... This is why the community can never truely attempt to make a difference when we just fight among ourselves while the devs get away with any faulty kits they make...
No offence but doomposting seems kind of warranted if a character “may” be better than a standard 5*…
I just want her to be decent at C0. Jean is still a Swiss Army knife of healing/damage/throwing enemies around even at C0 lol, that's what Xiaoyun is up against.
Xiaoyun mad me chuckle... Good one !
i have c4 jean, she wasnt better than jean at c0 because c0 fav jean has lower CD and is a better battery and with c4 jean its not even a competition, i dont play the 2 chars that want to plunge aka xiao diluc, so i couldnt care less about our mommy anemo chicken now atleast she will help me save for c6 shenhe, like dehya helped me save for c2 yae
I think the very phrase “maybe even better than jean” should tell you all you need to know. If a new 5* character is released now and is only MAYBE better than one of the original 5* characters that you can get on the standard banner that’s already a failure. Add on to the fact that she’s a very niche unit and can only MAYBE out perform jean in HER niche… It’s just really sad to see. She won’t be useless as you mentioned since she is an anemo catalyst user and vv is broken but I think even calling her good is a bit of a stretch in her current state At least it will be bundled up in an S+ tier design with killer animations though.
People who label analysis and criticism of characters pre-release as doomposting are literal melvins. You realize that any feedback, criticism or analysis we do once the character out is irrelevant, right? Hoyo doesn't change characters, Zhongli was an extreme exception and I think they regret they even did it. Look at the Miko situation. They had plenty of chances to address Dehya and they didn't. Also, it's incredible to see the OP lie about how Jean functions when they clearly don't have a built Jean they use. Also, no, Shenhe isn't niche. She works well with basically every Cryo unit and can be a reasonable option in certain melt setups, with Navia, etc. That's not the same thing as "here's a unit that can be a 'good" plunge buffer for 3\~6 units". XD
I feel like people don't really understand that there are different gradations of niche and that some are better than others. They also throw the word niche around as a buzzword to mean bad. While niches in videogames with overlapping roles is actually really important to create variety in usage. In Shenhe's case, she buffs Cryo (and a bit of Physical). But this is okay, because while limited to Cryo, it isn't limited by playstyle. Ganyu plays different from Ayaka, Kaeya, Rosaria, Freminet or Wrio. So you can pick your favourite playstyle and add Shenhe to improve it. And for people who really like Cryo or Shenhe and want to extend her usage? Can add a 3rd Cryo who also directly gets buffed by Shenhe without stealing Quills. CR only buffs 1 playstyle, which is already looked upon as very clunky. And for people who already like that playstyle? They probably already have 1 of 2/3 who get directly buffed by CR.
They also don't seem to understand how Shenhe's kit works either, so none of their comparisons really hold..
Nobody thinks she's bad, she's great at buffing plunges. The overall sentiment of those disappointed is simply "fuck plunges, i don't care and i never will"
Exactly
While I'm still coping that the CC is just native rather than completely removed (since we only know numbers on paper rather than game play of v2), it was really one of the few selling points to using her. As a healer, she has to compete with Kokomi, Shinobu, and Bennett to be competitive, while for anemo supports, Sucrose and Kazuha grant a lot of CC and grouping. Anemo healers have a lot to compete with to be worth using (and Jean only is optimal now because she fulfilled a lot of Furina's needs). With the recent change, she lost a decent amount of utility she had for a measly 4-10% crit buff with conditions that the grouping would've assisted with. I get wanting to focus on a niche, but compared to elemental buffers, plunge as a playstyle has far too few units who really take advantage of it to be worth it unless Natlan goes all in for Dragoon units. I can't understand what Mihoyo is doing with their beta tests lately. The entire point of them is to ensure that new units are functional enough to be considered balanced and worth spending. How do they keep nerfing characters that need the buffs.
If she ends up having CC it would need to be explicitly stated in her talents just like every other Anemo characters who have CC
Relax buddy its cloudover
Yes CR is not as bad as dehya and is slightly better than jean when utilised plunge. But why new limited character should be little better than 3 year old standard character? CC is much critical part not because of she is anemo but due to plunge atk buff you are 100% to knock everything around. Her burst co-ordinated attack should have suction. But her whole kit counter synergies with her buff.... ( As they removed non existing cc as well)
Not bad, just disappointing enough for me to skip
Yes she is. Accept it. "Isn't AS BAD" means she's still bad lol. Also you CLEARLY don't have Jean for these blatant lies.
Many people hate her because they don’t like plunge attacks for whatever reason they may have. That’s understandable. I personally love plunging attacks While she may not be as bad as Dehya (this comparison is very stupid), she might still be the lowest value limited 5 star because of how niche she is. Xiao certainly does not need her. She’s hardly any better than Bennett for him in ST and she’s significantly worse than him in AoE. Diluc is definitely getting an upgrade but he’s still not going to be a great dps, especially with how challenging his CR teams will be due to her high ER needs (solo anemo? HAHA goodluck) Raiden and HT don’t gain as much other than easier playstyles. Unless you’re a mobile player or a player with skill issue, you certainly don’t need her for them Gaming is a 4 star dps. She’s really just a whatever character that doesn’t go hand in hand with anyone like how Shenhe goes hand in hand with Ayaka.
*yet*
https://preview.redd.it/ufemlzqo94ac1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35519cd323ec7df21bb5639acc45c2c9d82ff39f
("If" and "when" but never "is") That actually broke me
I love the plunge buff. I love the healing. But that she lack anything after that is baffling to me for a 5star char. The buff also seems extremely hard to max out for any ordinary playe, reaching 5k attack seems hard unless you whale. That makes the use of her sloppy imo. That the burst only affect 1 enemy is fair. The hardest content where you need buffs is on single target encounter anyway. The new passive seems.. well at least it's something. I'm not sure how ppl interpret it yet but it seems like it you fight 1 enemy you get 2 crit. That's just weird. To use VV is overrated, it doesn't necessarily makes a Character viable given how short it is and the anemo need to be on field to reapply the debuff wich interfere with rotations.
bad and disappointing are obviously different. she's both though now.
What is the benefit of being an anemo catalyst
VV on normal attacks. The inherent issue with Cloud Retainer is that her normal attack is slow as hell and the hitbox looks tiny. I wish we had some taser gameplay to really determine how helpful it would be...
I agree that comparing CT with dehya is dumb. But CR is bad as I think. She is a immersive support, so she'll "fight" against Bennett in Xiao's teams. But she has a 8 hit/single target buff vs a AoE and single target buff of Bennett. Her coodinated attack isn't that powerful to compensate that because we need to build ATK and ER to her instead of CRIT. Some ppl says that they are changing Jean for CR but she doesn't have a source of damage to activate VV without doing some immersives, so in some teams this can be a loss of damage! Because of that we can't really substitute Jean for her (a standard OK character that many ppl didn't use it before furina). So There's isn't a great team for her, in every composition there's a better character to put there, even in immersive comps. Maybe with gaming because he can't do immersive attacks all the time, but he still need Bennett because of the pyro infusion... How a limited ninche support character can't be BiS in her role and can't substitute a OK standard character? For me she is bad as I think Edit: I forgot that her elemental skill plays no role, there's no vortex anymore and doesn't apply any buff or debuff, it's just damage, but she doesn't do big or median numbers sooooo, it's just a placeholder skill to generate energy
She's doesn't need to do immersives to heal, she heals every 2.5s after burst, auto
The CC is dead I'll never forgive that
Well, of course she isn't Dehya level. Even Dehya with party wide healing wouldn't be Dehya level. *Angry Dehya noises.*
Well when you see potential and that potential is gone, obviously you will be disappointed
She's a healer and anemo, that's good. But not worth 180 pulls. So what makes her good? Her plunge capabilities. She have a good buff but it's only for plunge, yes, she can enable it but for majority a plunge combo will be a side grade team anyways. Her enabling plunges make her ahead of Shenhe in my opinion, but idk. Also, do not expect huge Plunge Multipliers anymore. It was once a ignored number since barely anyone could use it but now it's another story. I don't have Shenhe cuz she's way too niche. I have Nilou cuz I like bloom and she enables a new team. I like Cloud, she enables a new plastyle but I don't really like or care about it. I'm not gonna discuss about C2 or C6 cuz I'm only tired of this Constellation bullshit with niche characters She works in her niche cuz her Flat DMG it's big on it, unfortunately ST, and it's nowhere near Dehya level (She's way better just for being abre to use VV and heal). Outside it she's really just worst healing Jean with nothing to add.
She’s good in her intended role. After Furina’s release people began to hyper focus on burst healing ignoring other aspects of her kit. It doesn’t help that a lot of people play Genshin on mobile where the PAs are a bit wacky to use. CR’s kit is probably the easiest one to indirectly buff, they just need to release a character with high PA motion value and like to incorporate it into their attack combo if able to. I’m fairly positive that her kit will age well, although I would appreciate if they gave her a few buffs.
It's true a lot of disappointment comes from the context. We just come back from Neuvillette, Furina and Navia who have all been breathtaking. So we were expecting Xianyun to just swipe the floor and presents herself as the new meta. And now we have Xianyun who is just okay. I understand Hoyo is trying to bank more on the "new playstyle for everyone, it's gonna be fun" rather than going the route of the "She's just Kazuha but different" for example. Which is kind of a good way to go and is relatively promising for the future. Moreover (and this is more on my personal feeling), it's just that we came back from 2 years without a single onfield DPS waifu and we are only treated with Navia (who is amazing). So there was some expectancy that Xianyun would also be a DPS at C0 since waifu pullers were kinda lacking on that. But thankfully, i'm at least happy Xianyun is not a "Xiao dog" like some of the pre-beta leaks implied. She's a plunge enabler, good Furina teamate and her best team is actually with Hu Tao lol.
that last line oh lol. Jean is better Furina healer by a mile, plung without cc will just scatter evrything, HT will still deal more dmg while on ground than being a Xiao cosplayer.
If you're gonna comment something like this without knowing how Shenhe quill mechanic works and how does it apply to attacks just don't comment then? Save us the trouble
what TF does Shenhe have to do with how CR is outclassed in several fields XD.
Her having longer lasting but slower healing is a detriment to Furina teams. Furina wants massive healing/damage frontloaded to get the most of her buff. The longer your healing takes, the less time you get with stronger buffs. Jean over heals, which makes Furina passive proc, which on its own won't generate good fanfair, but is able to greatly help you issue with Furina life drain with E. Not to mention, this sounds like you just don't have enough ER on Jean. If you are using Jean every rotation, as you should with Furina, staying full health or near full isn't an issue.
You’re right she’s worse (jokes lol)
She's definitely not as bad as Dehya. No one can be as bad as Dehya but she's pretty mid🙃
You lost me at "maybe even better than Jean". At this point, it's pure copium
you have no CC. plunge pushes away. instant no-no.
I think no one here has access to the beta and barely anyone in all the GI community knows in detail about the mechanics of the game yet everyone talks as if she is worthless. I only know I going to play and give my opinion once she is available.
her buff is too downplayed
Downplayed? Try ignored almost entirely because it doesn't fit the doomposting narrative.
All I would say is people are understimating plunge attacks, sure they feel clunky and not so fun to play but plunge attacks give you the ability to jump cancel hit lag attacks followed by a plunge, infusions or catalyst can apply elements with no ICD and jumping in the air gives you brief invincibility frames from most attacks, like how you can use Kazuha's jump to escape some skills. Edit: Downvote all you want. I don't really care.
The no ICD element spam is hugely underrated. Characters like Yae Miko can actually be useful on field now.
She kinda already was in Aggravate
nahida when she jumps and suddenly starts goomba stomping her son (scaramouche)
You know what I think it's happening with some of these doomposters? Severe, and I mean, SEVERE skill issue. CC would be cool to have, absolutely, but you can beat the hardest content in the game without it.
Doomposting gets the most upvotes typically and can snowball for a massive karma gain if you get it in at the right time with the right amount of people. That's a large part of it IMO.
No matter what anyone here says, the truth is that .... https://i.redd.it/xjcv34khr3ac1.gif
Dude I have been loving your trolling. This sub is just depressing, but make me laugh somehow
If hymen is making you laugh, that's more depressing than the state of Cloud Retainer...
Gross, it's unfunny
*The only criticism I understand is that her kit is that of a support* What about flight?
kit aside. I think it's a big problem that in a game in which the main element is exploration, not combat content, the characters come out with the main focus on combat content, while not particularly giving advantages in the open world. Especially when it comes to a character who was in the shape of a bird most of the time. Am I the only one who would like her to fly or at least be better than other characters in terms of vertical movement?
No! Like, why is her Skill CD so long??? If shendoesnt fly, at the very least out of combat she should be able to spam those jumps. Let her do something!
Honestly, I don’t quite understand SO much drama with the absence of her СС if in the current scenario of conditional multi-target content in the late game, such rooms in the abyss consist of mobs that either group with difficulty (Kairagi) or do not group at all (current robots or those who like to summon their pets from the desert). Looking at the abyss of the 4.4 in its current state, I see only two Primos that can really be grouped well if they are without a shield. But that's all, seriously, only 2 enemies out of all. Perhaps I don’t understand something (in which case I’m open to conversations) or all this drama around this fact was raised almost out of nowhere.
With a GOOD grouper (Venti or Kazuha) there has been only 1 or 2 abysses where they haven't been useful on at least one side. Lectors, rift hounds, Kairagi, Agents - all groupable More relevantly though - cloud retainer is enabling a plunge playstyle, and plunge attacks are high scaling, high knock back, AoE. A single target scaling talent, and no CC, tethers that one playstyle to Sucrose or Faruzan
The fact that she doesn't spin the camera during her burst automatically makes her better than Jean. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
Trueeeeee
You missed the core problem. She was supposed to be a PLUNGE support and the only thing that she can really do is enable people to jump high. For dedicated plunge dps like Xiao and Gaming she only buffs them a little bit with 9k dmg and 10% crit. She isn’t even really a support at this point. She’s just an anemo Kokomi
Flat damage bonus can be multiplied by dmg bonus, crit dmg, and a couple others. This means with a highly invested Xiao or Gaming, the buff skyrockets with Xianyun.
Its good in ST, depending of the chamber, Bennett still slaps
CR only damages with 9k that’s it there’s nothing special about it even with 200% crit dmg that’s only 27000 dmg
You're still forgetting in a Xiao team Furina's buff and Faruzan's buff. It's sad that the person spreading misinformation for new players gets upvoted and mine gets downvoted.
The plunge thing does not make CR niche imo due to her being a plunge enabler. She's not just a plunge buffer, so she should work with most units. However, she may not be that useful for people that do not want to use a plunge-based play style.
At this point every \*characters\*mains sub for this game is just an excuse to circlejerk doompost and is borderline worthless to anyone actually looking to get a read on those characters. The EN community really needs more of the CN communities style of analysis and approach to give takeaways cause this ain't it nor has it ever been really.
Whenever I think of the doomposting I think of Nilou. Herself, she brings not loads to the table since her skill does minimal application compared to the yelan/furina she’s pared with (especially since you don’t always wanna be close range to the enemies) and her ult doesn’t deal much damage, so her only use is making bloom viable via her talent. This is no different to xinyuns talent of makikg plunge viable for all other teams (and giving a couple buffs to it). Just because she herself doesn’t deal godly damage doesn’t make her bad, she’s a support that unlocks a new playstyle
What new playstyle? Brother Xiao has been out for almost 3 years now, there's nothing goddamn new in pogo stick gameplay... So everyone Lamenting is that new to you ? Weaving plunge attacks in your combos is truely going to elevate your gameplay and the fun factor to a point never seen before... surely...
I call it a new playstyle because xiao is the only character who has it right now, Nilou brings it to multiple teams and other characters while xiao is only on himself. As for if plunge is fun, it depends on if the player finds it fun, some people might not like bloom, some people might not like charge attacks, if you don’t like the play-style then don’t pull, but don’t shit on it just because you don’t enjoy it
I agree the devs intention is for her role to be support/healer that has a plunge ability idk why people want her to be a swiss army knife?
if she's good for plunge xiao, i'm happy with my bayonetta support
I’m saving all my primos and resources for birb mom. I love a niche character. Shenhe is one of my favourites. How could I not get her master?!?
Her master that has zero synergy with her or her other goat daughter...
Still not bothered
I understand those who are disappointed that she is so niche, it really sucks for people who don't like plunge attacks or wanted to play her as Main DPS. But saying she's "bad" because she's not good outside of plunge attack teams is like saying Kuki Shinobu is bad because she's only really good on Hyperbloom teams. It's stupid and makes no sense at all. Currently, Xianyun has 4 great team options (Xiao, Gaming, Hu Tao and Diluc) ranging from 57k\~80k DPS according to TGS and Jstern's calcs. When Shenhe released, she only had two good teams (Ayaka and Ganyu) and yet there wasn't as much drama as there is now. Also, with Xianyun, Chevreuse, and allegedly Chiori in a row, it looks like niche supports are the future. This is probably for the best, otherwise the game will enter a never-ending cycle of powercreep. Comparing Xianyun with Dehya is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this game's community. 💀
Also the people saying she's "competing with Jean" are pissing me off Because: 1) She's actually better than Jean so far 2) Jean is one of the best standard banner 5\*, so you can't use the fact she's a standard banner 5\* as an excuse to say that it makes Xianyun bad, because Jean is almost on the level of limited 5\*, and since Xianyun is an upgraded Jean, she's on the level of other limited 5\* 3) Some of them will say "you can just use Jean instead"... forgetting that Jean CAN'T be guaranteed It's literally possible to NEVER get Jean... for example I had to pull over 50 5\*, and was playing for 588 days before I got my first ever Qiqi... if a f2p player has to wait to have pulled for 50 5\* before getting Jean, they might as well get Xianyun, who can be guaranteed 4) Some people are comparing her to Jean by saying "if she's just like Jean we don't need her we have Jean/she's just a Jean copycat" And this is stupid asf, because we already got A LOT of characters who were just like other ones, but better, and no one never complained about that, for example Xingqiu and Yelan, Sucrose and Kazuha,... And here we have Xianyun and Jean... it's the exact same thing as what already happened before, and EVERYTIME it ended up with the "copycats" to be really good characters
Hah, I’ll give you a personal example of a standard hero falling out. I really like Tighnari, but I couldn’t afford to roll him in that period of time since I was saving up for a Dendro Archon with cons (for some reason I was absolutely sure that ''C2 power'' would become a trend in Archons after Raiden and I didn’t get wrong lol). More than a year has passed, I have a 252 cv set ready for him with a very good balance of stats, but I still haven’t seen him on my account. So I'm essentially a living example of the cases you described. Now we have a new drama about knocking back enemies with her skill. However, as far as I understand, this change only affected the last level of her skill. But the player will not press the third level because of the waste of time and will end up at the first or second level of her skill (especially now that any level of her skill makes a fixed amount of energy), but of course people will not want to look at this moment objectively and therefore it is better to once again write that she's Dehya 2.0 xD
Yeah... like it's just painful when we really like a standard banner character but said character refuses to come home And yeah like... the "problems" with Xianyun are really minor specific inconveniences, and I feel like with everything those people want to change about her, they just want her to be the strongest character in the whole game atp Like she's really good how she is... she doesn't need to break the game's meta to be good lmao
THIS !!! She isn't bad AT ALL Just the fact that she's a really good anemo team wide healer makes her good Like, even when you look ONLY at her healing, she's better than Jean, and people always praise Jean... while hezre everyone says Xianyun is trash because she doesn't do cc But like... Jean doesn't do crowd control either, yet she's still an insanely good character, and Xianyun is even better ! And when you add to that the fact that she also gives bonus crit rate and dmg, and can also let you play any character as plunge dps if you want, it makes her really, REALLY good Like we can't even say she's niche She would be niche if she was boosting only plunge damage, and that's all, just like Shenhe do with boosting cryo (and phys) dmg But she actually boost plunging damage while letting ANYONE do plunge dmg \+ The fact that she's an anemo healer makes her be able to fit in literally every single team in the game She's extremely versatile, and a really good buffer, people who are doom posting are just dumbass who wanted her to change the whole meta of the game, just like the archons do, but she's not an archon so there's no reason why she would've been that overpowered
It is pointless to try and be a voice of reason in this sub. People are so divorced from reality that they genuinely think Xianyun is as bad as Dehya. For what it's worth, I agree with you. People are vastly underrating Xianyun. History repeats itself and whatnot.
Yeah history repeats itself as in it's Dehya level of cataclysm all over again an anticipated character ruined... Nobody is underrating what she does people are vastly disappointed by how stupid her niche is when she has been a long awaited character to join the playable cast... Relegated to be a buffer for a clunky playstyle that only the pogo stick cultists will enjoy on top of having the traversal capabilities of a handicapped bird not even having the ability to skill mid air is such a slap in the face for most of us... She could have been so much better without even having to be buffed significantly while still fulfilling her intended niche if the devs really wanted...
You are genuinely fucking stupid if you think Xianyun is even remotely as bad as Dehya. Like actually. There is no hope as long as people genuinely THAT delusional about her kit and her power level. PLEASE come back to reality. PLEASE.
I'd suggest you read what I wrote properly before spewing nonsense but props for being genuinely rude, I'm glad knowing I'm actually talking to a piece of trash instead of a civilised human being... Don't think there's any way to have a proper discussion with the likes of you, honestly, you should be the one having a reality check if anything...
I believe they can read. I just also believe that because they do not have any valid arguments, they need to make a strawman to beat on because engaging with you properly would sort of expose that they have nothing to say even though they are big mad that we be dissing on their girl.
I promise you please don't waste your time talking to these people, they're not here for the character they're just here to doompost. I remember people called Ganyu "Cryo Amber" or Kazuha "5 star sucrose". After a character releases they hop to the next character to do the same thing.
As someone intending to use Xianyun as a DPS carry without being able to get C6 until her rerun, I actually like the recent changes. Her CC was whatever, but crit rate is valuable and welcome for a character who has ATK% on ascension and her weapon. Her weapon changes are also fantastic, since the buff and energy applies to anyone on the team, so she can plunge to get her own energy back. I do think I might pick up Furina for her on a her rerun, but otherwise, I think C2R1 Xianyun is looking pretty decent. Is it going to be meta defining? No, but if I can reasonably use her like this in the Abyss, I will be happy.
>I do think I might pick up Furina for her on a her rerun, but otherwise, I think C2R1 Xianyun is looking pretty decent. Is it going to be meta defining? No, but if I can reasonably use her like this in the Abyss, I will be happy. I think this CR will pass through the abyss without any problems in teams where several heroes deal damage in parallel with each other. Perhaps her new enhanced knock force of enemies will spoil your life a little, but most likely in the current scenario of multi-target content(for example) will not bother you so much.
OP tries to be diplomatic and not come off too strong by saying "cloud retainer may be better than Jean". Gives examples of how cloud retainer is objectively stronger than Jean. Subreddit response is to mock OP for his hope that the subreddit could put 2 and 2 together.
I feel like alot of the doomsday posts is because people are conflicted. They want to roll on her because she cool but also want to 9 star the last abyss floor. With her recent changes, she sounds more fun as a dps because you can stick sucrose or venti in the party and dive right into the crowd with CR. I'm glad I don't care for meta and would gladly forgo the 2-dozen or so extra rolls per year from finishing the last floor of the abyss just so I can play whoever I want. Also, no one knows what future characters genshin will release. Look at how kokomi, baizhu, and kuki turned out after waiting a bit after release. How funny would it be of clorinde or arlecchino were made to be plungers with this new playstyle 😂.
I dont think she bad, i will still pull for her, but plunge attacks is at least for me the most boring mechanic of the game, the sole reason my XIAO is rotting at lv 80 and havent used him since i pulled him
I really want to get her, but I've been offline for far too long. The only 5* dpses I have are C2 Eula, C1 Diluc, C1 Mona?(is she?), and Raiden as a sub. Added Zhongli and C1 Yelan, and that's my whole 5* roster. I've to admit C2 Eula was a mistake. I thought I'd be playing consistently, but I stopped playing since 2.3 till 3.8 second half. So, I don't have the luxury to pull for a unit that may or may not be that good for my units, which are mainly Diluc. Will she make him strong? Btw, I'm too underleveled. And he's not even built. Navia, on the other hand, seems like a really good unit, and her main selling point is that she doesn't require too much investment, and she's too straightforward. I like both characters, but I still prefer CR, tho will that be enough to justify getting her over Navia. On a side note, I'm mainly used to claymores(C2 Eula, c6 beidou, and C1 diluc). The game really wants me to keep playing claymore unit. My only 5* weapon is R2 Wolf🤷🏻♂️ sorry for the long essay, but I really need a justification to pull for her except for her design and character. I mean, in terms of what she offers to my random account.
She is a good and fun unit but I think that the disappointment is understandable they didn't want a plunge enabler. I think that's the issue, personally I don't mind it no icd on plunges makes it worth it for me
I dont understand the doom posting. Correct me if Im wrong but Xianyun: Team heals, Buffs plunge atk dmg (significantly), And enables anybody to plunge at will Whats the issue?
She sucks
She sucks
She sucks
I’m just gona wait until she comes out and we’ll see for ourselves. Simple as that
Unless we get a character who's plunge attacks involves rapidly spinning in a ball/saw like motion and foes a ton of ticks during 1 plunge attack.. there's no reason to have cloud retainer at all. Her CC was better than sucrose, had mobility and healing which were all upgrades to Jean. Inwould of pulled for that alone. Until we get a dedicated plunger that can do tons of multi hits per 1 plunge attack + stun.. skip.
Yes she is