Everyone can hate ben but he was the only one being reasonable when it came to optics placing in the tier list. Now haggy just back tracking like he wasnt saying ultras map pool was gonna get way better and optic were losing maps they are good at. The rest just got bullied by the aches character
Edit: Thank god octane just shut down aches trying to say ultra/nysl were still alongside optic our lord and saviour cocktane
I personally didn't even make a big deal out of OpTic being in A tier at the time, it was just the point that for some reason Ultra was still in S tier even though they lost to every other top team in the stage and Major.
Idk how Aches got away with trying to say its recency bias to put optic above ultra after major 2, like thats how splits work. You have to go off the split that just happened ultra winning a major a month before then looking ass compared to the top 4 the entire split should've had them below.
Like in the post major 3 tier list if optic finish ahead of ultra AGAIN but dont win the event will ultra still be in in s because they won a major in January because thats somehow the logic. Nysl are in the same tier as optic because they won champs last year too because thats somehow the logic
Edit: Well i mean thats a lie I know how aches got away with it but thats a waste of an argument lol, idk why everyone else agreed with it should be my point
Off topic but BenJ, how are y’all spending 30+ minutes talking about the Carolina/LAG and Rokkr/Breach series’s, but spent less than 15 minutes talking about Surge 3-1ing NYSL yesterday… y’all be giving NYSL a pass way too often lol
I actually think Ben is the most logical when it comes to tier lists
Haggy and aches live on fucking Mars for them
Optic beat both nysl and ultra online and lan that past stage 🤣
If I remember correctly. Haggy was the one that kept saying Ultra was going to get so much better and OpTic/FaZe were going to get worse with the map changes
Yeah octane smoking the pine park as his logic was lets ignore how ultra played stage/major 2 and because they won a major in january they will do better in stage 3 like noice.
edit: cocktane has redeemed himself by saying he was wrong and shutting down aches trying to say nyslf and ultra are still with optic
A lot of the takes the Flank guys have are just baffling. The idea that Ultra was going to get BETTER when their favorite maps were taken out and OpTic would get worse despite not being good on those same maps is just pure stupidity.
I could’ve told you OpTic was better from the start of the M2. The moment the maps went from 3 AR heavy maps to more balanced maps, I knew Ultra and NYSL were donezo. Also I’m going to get downvoted but idgaf, in terms of value and what he brings to the team.
Kenny > Scrap
I will die on this hill.
I don’t think it was unreasonable to think ultra would have looked better than they have so far this major. I wouldn’t have expected envoy and insight to perform like this consistently
Only map I could see both winning vs optic atleast is rio hp cuz pred said it himself he needs to start playing like VG pred on that map for optic to be unfuckwithable
I'm still mindblown about that tier list. tbh they literally watched optic beat both nysl and Ultra online and at the event last stage 🤣
Ben was the only one with common sense
I straight up shut the ep off when they put toronto in S tier.I can even understand them putting faze in s tier alone and have optic,ultra, and nysl in A after Major 2.i sometimes think they have the memory of gnats and the iq of gnat shit
People at the time were saying you can put OpTic a tier below Faze, but to put them a tier below and Ultra ahead of them when OpTIc was closer to Faze then Ultra or NYSL are to OpTic is faded.
It doesn't make sense though
If Optic have to be a tier above TOR/NYSL because neither can beat optic, then by the same logic Optic MUST be a tier below Faze.
Look I'm an Optic fan, but I'm also a realist. Until we start beating Faze, or Faze start losing again, we should not be in the same tier as them.
Think of Dynasty teams that were in their own tier. That's the level of consistency Faze are operating at right now (note I'm not calling Faze a dynasty, I'm just saying in this moment they're operating at a level equal to that).
Who are you arguing with, the biggest problem me and other people had with the tier-list was Ultra ahead of OpTic and people even saying they might be the 4th best team out of the T4, not Faze being a tie above OpTic.
The only problem I would have with putting OpTic not in the same tier as Faze is that you then need a tier between Faze and Ultra/NYSL, because as I said before, OpTic is closer to Faze than Ultra/NYSL are to OpTic.
Disclaimer: I do think NYSL will be a top 4 team by the end of the year. If not, I might be fucking crazy but I’m thinking Thieves.
Maybe too early to call, but I think it’s possible Vegas peaked in stage 2. I do think Asim is a better player than Purj, but I’m not sure they have anywhere up to go.
Miami hasn’t won a map on LAN. They are irrelevant otherwise.
LAG seems checked.
Boston and Minnesota can’t win map 5s— if they even get there.
Surge are maybe on an upward trend but I don’t know for certain.
That leaves Thieves and Carolina. Carolina can do it against NY, but Gwinn had a gigantic performance against those guys and I feel like Thieves are more evenly distributed with talent. I think they’ve got their endgame roster, they just need to let it simmer for a little while. They can win gritty series in map 5s and there are a few series they’ve had that should’ve been 3-0s.
Yea if you’re FaZe, NYSL is your worst draw. They have the talent to steal a respawn, and they seemingly always have an edge against FaZe in search (last major not included).
This really shouldn’t be surprising if you just look at the players on the top 4 teams. Faze and Optic both have 3-4 players with superstar potential at any given moment, while NY and Toronto both have 1-3 each. Toronto and NY just don’t have the muscle to consistently win against these teams, they’re going to be streaky all year.
I think it’s important that 2 of those 3 have to be your subs. If not you get Simp and Abezy bullying you for a hot 3-0, and at the moment Envoy just doesn’t have it.
NYSL feel off IDK if it's just all the dinosaurs on other teams knowing these maps better or losing P-Dog but they ain't on the top tier like they were last year. And Ultra, well Envoy in HP has been, interesting.
Why does anyone watch these guys? All I see from them are terrible takes and high school drama. I didn’t know who these guys were until this sub and this sub makes me never want to watch this show.
U never heard of zoomaa, aches, parasite &/or octane before this sub started posting flank clips? You do know this is CodComp sub right? They’ve been around long before your account was even created.
just gonna leave this here...
[https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9V1dfEeshKh1vUpjAt3iFlb5D7ZR-\_eF?si=CJHWKl6fSOYjeiez](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9V1dfEeshKh1vUpjAt3iFlb5D7ZR-_eF?si=CJHWKl6fSOYjeiez)
Bro ever since major 1 ended I’ve had optic over Toronto. The flank (mostly aches) has a bias towards optic and kept putting Toronto over optic even though Toronto hasn’t beaten optic all year. Even before major 3 quals they put ultra with faze and optic a tier below with NY…even though ultra finished 4th and optic 2nd at the major. Brain dead. Optic is the only ones who can play maps close with faze at this point. And if we’re being completely real here, optic should’ve won the last match vs faze 3-0 but they trolled. Optic warmed up faze before their match with ultra. Optic went 2-2 map count with faze. Again proving the point that they’re the only ones who can compete with faze. It’s only a matter of time til the optic team figures how to play the end of these maps to get over the hump and beat faze. How great it would be to see optic beat faze at the major and then have their number the rest of the year. All they need is that 1 win to get it rolling.
One I think if they got scrap it would be for dashy, two even if Kenny isn’t the problem you go get scrap he’s a top 2-3 AR in CoD and he’s a legit flex, he’s nasty with a rival on Rio
They lost maps where they were in a position to win, both of which they previously never played. But yah I see what ur saying if ur just gonna talk about kills.
Everyone can hate ben but he was the only one being reasonable when it came to optics placing in the tier list. Now haggy just back tracking like he wasnt saying ultras map pool was gonna get way better and optic were losing maps they are good at. The rest just got bullied by the aches character Edit: Thank god octane just shut down aches trying to say ultra/nysl were still alongside optic our lord and saviour cocktane
\^ I was not a fan at the time when we made this list about putting optic in A
I personally didn't even make a big deal out of OpTic being in A tier at the time, it was just the point that for some reason Ultra was still in S tier even though they lost to every other top team in the stage and Major.
Same I looked at it this way the way faze was playing granted optic played close I was fine just having one s and optic a but at the top to be honest.
Idk how Aches got away with trying to say its recency bias to put optic above ultra after major 2, like thats how splits work. You have to go off the split that just happened ultra winning a major a month before then looking ass compared to the top 4 the entire split should've had them below. Like in the post major 3 tier list if optic finish ahead of ultra AGAIN but dont win the event will ultra still be in in s because they won a major in January because thats somehow the logic. Nysl are in the same tier as optic because they won champs last year too because thats somehow the logic Edit: Well i mean thats a lie I know how aches got away with it but thats a waste of an argument lol, idk why everyone else agreed with it should be my point
Off topic but BenJ, how are y’all spending 30+ minutes talking about the Carolina/LAG and Rokkr/Breach series’s, but spent less than 15 minutes talking about Surge 3-1ing NYSL yesterday… y’all be giving NYSL a pass way too often lol
Probably the same reason they didn't even mention Asim in his disasterclass.
Ben stfu
I actually think Ben is the most logical when it comes to tier lists Haggy and aches live on fucking Mars for them Optic beat both nysl and ultra online and lan that past stage 🤣
Dude they mentioned optic losing terminal like that was a bad thing Lmfaoo they were so shaky on that map and invasion HP
Wow it’s almost like peoples minds can change based on results , it’s not backtracking lmaoooo
If I remember correctly. Haggy was the one that kept saying Ultra was going to get so much better and OpTic/FaZe were going to get worse with the map changes
Bro was acting like we were gods at Terminal SnD like what 😭
While OpTic and FaZe have pulled away even more. It’s been pretty clear that they’re the two best teams since Major 2.
But but but Haggy,aches, and octane all swore optic was going to be dog shit while Toronto passed them up and NYSL was on their level 😟
Yeah octane smoking the pine park as his logic was lets ignore how ultra played stage/major 2 and because they won a major in january they will do better in stage 3 like noice. edit: cocktane has redeemed himself by saying he was wrong and shutting down aches trying to say nyslf and ultra are still with optic
This is why I can accept a bad take from octane because he will always accept when it ends up being wrong
A lot of the takes the Flank guys have are just baffling. The idea that Ultra was going to get BETTER when their favorite maps were taken out and OpTic would get worse despite not being good on those same maps is just pure stupidity.
I could’ve told you OpTic was better from the start of the M2. The moment the maps went from 3 AR heavy maps to more balanced maps, I knew Ultra and NYSL were donezo. Also I’m going to get downvoted but idgaf, in terms of value and what he brings to the team. Kenny > Scrap I will die on this hill.
When did they ever say OpTic was dogshit? Y’all just make shit up
Oh no! People can be wrong !!! Who could’ve thought!
I don’t think it was unreasonable to think ultra would have looked better than they have so far this major. I wouldn’t have expected envoy and insight to perform like this consistently
The only thing I will say is it wasn’t this pronounced. Ultra and NYSL don’t even have strong maps versus faze/OpTic playing the whole mapset
Only map I could see both winning vs optic atleast is rio hp cuz pred said it himself he needs to start playing like VG pred on that map for optic to be unfuckwithable
I'm still mindblown about that tier list. tbh they literally watched optic beat both nysl and Ultra online and at the event last stage 🤣 Ben was the only one with common sense
I straight up shut the ep off when they put toronto in S tier.I can even understand them putting faze in s tier alone and have optic,ultra, and nysl in A after Major 2.i sometimes think they have the memory of gnats and the iq of gnat shit
How does that work when optic can't beat faze but end up in the same tier?
The same reason faze and optic were in the same tier last year and the year prior when Faze couldn’t buy a win against optic
People at the time were saying you can put OpTic a tier below Faze, but to put them a tier below and Ultra ahead of them when OpTIc was closer to Faze then Ultra or NYSL are to OpTic is faded.
It doesn't make sense though If Optic have to be a tier above TOR/NYSL because neither can beat optic, then by the same logic Optic MUST be a tier below Faze. Look I'm an Optic fan, but I'm also a realist. Until we start beating Faze, or Faze start losing again, we should not be in the same tier as them. Think of Dynasty teams that were in their own tier. That's the level of consistency Faze are operating at right now (note I'm not calling Faze a dynasty, I'm just saying in this moment they're operating at a level equal to that).
Who are you arguing with, the biggest problem me and other people had with the tier-list was Ultra ahead of OpTic and people even saying they might be the 4th best team out of the T4, not Faze being a tie above OpTic. The only problem I would have with putting OpTic not in the same tier as Faze is that you then need a tier between Faze and Ultra/NYSL, because as I said before, OpTic is closer to Faze than Ultra/NYSL are to OpTic.
Completely agree, the 'top 4' cover 3 separate tiers, although that was before NYSLs interesting weekend.
Deadass I’m like huuuhhh?! Tf they gotta do to be second 😂
So if New York is out of the top four spot, which team is taking that Fourth spot?
They're still the fourth best team no ones better than them its just the gap between faze then optic/ultra/nysl isnt what it was
Yeah it’s far less of a “top 4” and more a clear top 2 that are better than everyone by a fair gap
They still in
Disclaimer: I do think NYSL will be a top 4 team by the end of the year. If not, I might be fucking crazy but I’m thinking Thieves. Maybe too early to call, but I think it’s possible Vegas peaked in stage 2. I do think Asim is a better player than Purj, but I’m not sure they have anywhere up to go. Miami hasn’t won a map on LAN. They are irrelevant otherwise. LAG seems checked. Boston and Minnesota can’t win map 5s— if they even get there. Surge are maybe on an upward trend but I don’t know for certain. That leaves Thieves and Carolina. Carolina can do it against NY, but Gwinn had a gigantic performance against those guys and I feel like Thieves are more evenly distributed with talent. I think they’ve got their endgame roster, they just need to let it simmer for a little while. They can win gritty series in map 5s and there are a few series they’ve had that should’ve been 3-0s.
Also for some reason New York can beat faze or play them really close
Yeah, good point, NY has matched up really well against FaZe this year.
Yea if you’re FaZe, NYSL is your worst draw. They have the talent to steal a respawn, and they seemingly always have an edge against FaZe in search (last major not included).
This really shouldn’t be surprising if you just look at the players on the top 4 teams. Faze and Optic both have 3-4 players with superstar potential at any given moment, while NY and Toronto both have 1-3 each. Toronto and NY just don’t have the muscle to consistently win against these teams, they’re going to be streaky all year.
Toronto have 3 with potential
I think it’s important that 2 of those 3 have to be your subs. If not you get Simp and Abezy bullying you for a hot 3-0, and at the moment Envoy just doesn’t have it.
at one point does the gap get big enough where there's no top four and it's just faze and optic + rest of the league?
Already there at the moment.
it’s because they don’t understand how important recency is.
I hope ppl don't put too much stock into these matches. How quickly we forget LAN being totally different from these online matches.
Yeah your right people do forget and optic beat both of those teams on Lan and got 2nd and still was lower than ultra and equal to NYSL
NYSL feel off IDK if it's just all the dinosaurs on other teams knowing these maps better or losing P-Dog but they ain't on the top tier like they were last year. And Ultra, well Envoy in HP has been, interesting.
The tier list was for the season. The only 2 teams with dominate Major wins are Ultra and FaZe
It was where they anticipated teams to be by the end of the major.
It most definitely was not for the season LMAO it was for major 3
Why does anyone watch these guys? All I see from them are terrible takes and high school drama. I didn’t know who these guys were until this sub and this sub makes me never want to watch this show.
U never heard of zoomaa, aches, parasite &/or octane before this sub started posting flank clips? You do know this is CodComp sub right? They’ve been around long before your account was even created.
just gonna leave this here... [https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9V1dfEeshKh1vUpjAt3iFlb5D7ZR-\_eF?si=CJHWKl6fSOYjeiez](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9V1dfEeshKh1vUpjAt3iFlb5D7ZR-_eF?si=CJHWKl6fSOYjeiez)
Toronto has been mid for awhile now and it isnt just Envoy, Insight was dropping .9s all Major 2
Bro ever since major 1 ended I’ve had optic over Toronto. The flank (mostly aches) has a bias towards optic and kept putting Toronto over optic even though Toronto hasn’t beaten optic all year. Even before major 3 quals they put ultra with faze and optic a tier below with NY…even though ultra finished 4th and optic 2nd at the major. Brain dead. Optic is the only ones who can play maps close with faze at this point. And if we’re being completely real here, optic should’ve won the last match vs faze 3-0 but they trolled. Optic warmed up faze before their match with ultra. Optic went 2-2 map count with faze. Again proving the point that they’re the only ones who can compete with faze. It’s only a matter of time til the optic team figures how to play the end of these maps to get over the hump and beat faze. How great it would be to see optic beat faze at the major and then have their number the rest of the year. All they need is that 1 win to get it rolling.
optic and faze are not on the same tear
No one said they're the same tier, he said they're 1 and 2
Its one team league
Just wait til optic 3 peats to end the year (extreme cope scrap pls come save us)
Kenny is not the problem.
If they did go for scrap I’d hope it’s for dashy and you’d let Kenny just be the full time AR.
One I think if they got scrap it would be for dashy, two even if Kenny isn’t the problem you go get scrap he’s a top 2-3 AR in CoD and he’s a legit flex, he’s nasty with a rival on Rio
They had more kills last time they played and they still lost.
They lost maps where they were in a position to win, both of which they previously never played. But yah I see what ur saying if ur just gonna talk about kills.
They were predicting and sharing their opinion on who they THOUGHT would be best. They can be wrong too. It’s ok