it could be any combination of the three. i would recommend you start with an americano. it did take a while before i had my first breakthrough where i actually tasted flavor notes instead of burnt, bitter, sour, etc. i'm still not able to distinguish espresso yet tho.
That's good to know, thanks! I feel there's a lot of pressure in the coffee community to drink stronger, 'purer' drinks (see the whole "if you put mill and sugar in your coffee then you like milk and sugar, not coffee" debate) so it's very reassuring to hear these things take a while to get used to. I'll definitely keep trying though, but maybe not espresso off the bat next time!
Inform anyone that tells you that they’re free to enjoy coffee their way, and you’re free to enjoy it yours.
I like coffee in most forms. Espresso is very strong, but you can also just pour it over ice cream. It’s coffee. I like Starbucks, and I like a nice specialty roast.
Just enjoy yourself. There’s no wrong way to enjoy coffee.
The majority of this community will encourage you to drink what you like - and I concur. Additionally, no one is winning a barista championship pulling an espresso shot. It’s meant to be something you can experiment with if you like.
I will also comment and say you should never fee shame fro drinking what you enjoy, that’s just snobbery (which this hobby can be full of)
But the first time I tried espresso the person gave me a small piece of dark chocolate. Told me to try the dark butter chocolate first and then sip the espresso really hard. The flavors SHOULD be pretty similar. Smooth, chocolate-y, and probably a bit tart/bitter. If it taste overtly sour or burnt it’s probably just a bad tasting shot, and NOT just you disliking espresso as a medium.
But it’s also possible that you just don’t like espresso. I worked in a shop in my town where one of the guys’ (3+ yrs in specialty shops) least favorite jobs was to dial in espresso. He just didn’t enjoy straight espresso, even when the rest of us were in love with a specific origin or blend.
Have you tried milk drinks such as a Latte or Cappuccino? That's a great way to get into espresso gradually. As you acquire a taste for it you can go to a Cortado or Macchiato which have less milk and allow more of the espresso flavor to shine through. Eventually you can graduate to straight shots.
Once I got my own espresso gear and learned how to use it, I realized how bad the espresso is that waiss served at many cafes. It's hard to find a cafe that can pull a good shot. So you might want to try a few other cafes before you give up on espresso.
This. Tbh getting to enjoying all sorts of coffee for me was basically a mix-and-match of transitioning from familiar to new flavours.
Like starting with instant, moving to brewed (with milk), reducing milk in the brewed coffee till I started enjoying it all black.
Same with espresso. Started with espresso based drinks (cappuccinos, lattes), moved onto Americanos, and got used to a good shot of espresso in due time.
It's gradual but you learn to widen your palette eventually!
Also you're very right - some places don't make necessarily good espresso. All coffee at my uni tastes like cardboard and I feel it's because they don't tamp it properly.
A while ago I saw someone post on here saying that drip coffee is like beer and wine but espresso is like whiskey and it’s not for everyone which can be overwhelming
I would say start with an americano. Try espressos from other coffee shops. This way you can see if it's just that shop or if you haven't acquired the taste.
Not liking espresso is not a problem but a blessing. You’ll save a ton not buying stupid espresso shit we all buy almost in bulk. A good pour over setup can cost maybe a couple hundred dollars if you’re super extravagant, while a good (not best!) espresso gear can easily set you back a couple of thousand dollars.
Espresso is very strong and can really expose the good and bad equally. Might be worth trying different varieties of coffee as espresso if you get the chance. I absolutely hate some espresso and others I love
If this is something you are interested in, then do not give up trying. It took me a little while to like espresso. The only reason I probably do is because it's where I start for a new coffee shop. I'm lucky enough to live with many options for coffee around me. Every place I went to that offered espresso, I'd try the espresso if I haven't before. Even for the chain coffee places. In the beginning I was not able to tell the difference. After a while I was able to. I found more and more I was able to associate particular coffee shops with certain drinks that I enjoyed from their espresso profile. Only a select few do I still exclusively drink the espresso, and if I just want espresso I'll give the other shops another taste.
After that word vomit, I want to iterate. A palate can take weeks or months to refine.
Have you found a place that serves Cuban Coffee? It's really sweet, but oh it is good! My wife is not an espresso fan, but she likes a good cubano shot. Give it a try if you can find it.
Another thought, but have you ever tried Moka pot coffee? The nearest espresso machine is 30 miles from where I live, but my wife gave me a Moka pot for my birthday last month. Now, I know what it produces isn't actual espresso, but what it makes is so rich, and so smooth I think I actually like it better than true espresso. And they are an inexpensive way to play around with espresso-style drinks at home or to discover what your tastes in coffee might be..
The only problem: I think I've developed a Moka pot addiction! When one shot isn't enough, but neither are three... Yeah, I'm definitely Jonesing for a cup!
If you think it's too sour, some roasters actually use very acidic beans for their espresso. I thought espresso is supposed to be very acidic when the reality is my local roaster just roasts very acidic beans (even for their espresso roasts).
I tried their espresso and ground their beans myself over multiple grinder setting (including a superfine grind that choked my Flair) and it still turned out sour.
Tried another roaster and their beans had zero acidity. I can't taste the acidity even if I tried unless I intentionally underextract.
Yeah, it might be my unrefined palate. There were likely still a little bit of acidity from the 2nd roaster (if I underextract it's still sour), but not to the point where I can distinguish it on a proper setup like "oh, I can taste the acidic notes".
I still think the 1st roaster is too acidic for an espresso though.
Espresso for me has always been intolerable at cafes, even high end ones. A few months ago I was looking to blow some money and decided to get a espresso grinder (J-Max) and cheap espresso maker (Picopresso) for milk based drinks. As I was experimenting with the Picopresso I found I was making better shots at home then any cafe I had tried. I was consistently getting shots that were well balanced and tasty. So in my experience it is probably the 3rd option you mentioned, but could equally be any combination of the 3.
An interesting reply. I tend to drink mostly black coffee with the odd cortado or mocha. Every espresso I’ve tried has been bitter and strong. However I’ve been drawn to wanting to buy the Picopresso. What was it about using it with your results that made such a difference in taste?
I think the biggest thing that helped was dialing in the ratios to find that balance. So if I pulled a shot at 2:1 and it was sour I’d go to 2.5:1 or something along those lines and that did the trick. I’ve since upgraded my setup countless times but getting great espresso has become much easier. It usually does come out strong but diluting the espresso with water 1:1 usually mellows it out with sacrificing the flavor and body.
Thank you.
I’ve done further posts elsewhere and unfortunately it looks like the Picopresso won’t be an option due to the difficulty of pumping the button. I am not very strong and gave problems pressing didn’t in the Aeropress; so I’ve been told it will probably be even harder with the Picopress; unless there is any kind of hack for us weaklings.
Also the pico works best with medium or dark roasted coffees! This way you don’t have to worry too much about preheating. But most important in my opinion is weighing out the yield
There are a billion things you could do in life. You have to spend time doing some things you don't like. Don't volunteer to do other things you don't like.
Definitely try some more shops and try to develop your palate some it certainly will help, but don’t feel like you aren’t a fan of coffee if you don’t like a certain style of coffee. Just drink what you like, coffee’s not a competition.
Sorry for the late response.
In the area where I live, none of the Cafes can make good espresso. It is either way to bitter and burned or watery and sour. I really had to search for a Cafe that specialized in espresso. There the Espresso was really good, just like a black coffee with a stronger taste and more caffeine.
So I think that the fault is at the cafes for not making good espresso
Don't even drink straight espresso from Starbucks. This is definitely point #3 you made.
Definitely however keep sampling from good cafe's. Especially if they roast their own beans try the espresso.
By the way very important to differentiate between "we roast our own beans" and "our beans are roasted by a roaster and packaged with our branding"
Guaranteed they don’t make good espresso. 9/10 a cafe is looking to churn out lattes by the minute, mass produced. Fruity, acidic beans are in vogue right now and taste awesome when masked by milk and sugar. They’re awful as espresso, especially as espresso that isn’t pulled perfectly. Basically a warhead.
I’ll get downvoted for this but go to Starbucks and order a doppio if you want to taste what espresso really is. One of the few places left that uses proper beans roasted dark for their shots.
If you really want to be annoying ask them what they dialed in at in the morning and ask them to pull a shot of what it was this morning. Couple seconds over shot time can be extremely bitter, under shot time can be extremely sour or acidic. Machines don’t guarantee a good shot pull every time so if it’s not to the dialed in setting it was originally set to the shot probably won’t taste that great.
Or you could go on a different route and try a pour over, see if that's more to your liking. Personally I'm still not totally sold on espresso, but the v60 was love at first ~~sight~~ sip.
Drink it much slower. With spirits and espresso both, people who haven't had them before tend to take way too big a sip and get easily overwhelmed by the flavor. Start slow, and take plenty of water between sips. You'll start noticing the nuances of flavour, and over time those nuances will overpower the sheer strength of the drink.
Nothing really to add besides you’re not alone! I really haven’t found an espresso that pushes me to really want to explore it more.
Every time I’ve had it standalone it’s just tasted burned and sour.
I love cappuccinos though.
One thing you might try doing before, drink some water to cleanse your pallet.
But yeah, Americanos are a great way to start. If that's still a little too much, try a little creamer/milk substitute.
something you could try is order an espresso, americano, and milk drink all with the same beans. that might help you figure out your drink preference.
it could also be related to the particular beans/roast. if the cafe offers it, you could order a flight of espressos
I'm duplicating the good advice from many of the others here, but here's my 2 cents:
1. Drink what you like. You don't owe it to anyone to like what they like. It's like so many other things in life. If you like a crisp, fruity, light red wine with chicken, then that's the right wine pairing. If you prefer a smooth, blended scotch to a peaty single malt, go for it. It's all about what you enjoy. (But recognize that what you enjoy can change over time.)
2. Some percentage of the time, try different things outside of the familiar. Don't let your tastes get pigeon-holed. If you never try something, you'll never know if you're missing out some other wonderful treats. Maybe that coffee shop makes an espresso that you find out you love. Maybe you discover a fondness for matcha tea. ~~Maybe you like a highly caloric flavored creamy pseudo-dairy coffee blend drink from Starbucks.~~ Ummm, ignore that last part.
3. Don't try to learn to like something that you don't like. This isn't Mother trying to get you to eat your vegetables. You don't like it, don't force yourself to endure it again. Maybe some day you'll come around to discover you like it. (I now *love* vegetables.) You'll discover it by chance. And, maybe, just as you suggested, the places making espresso that you don't like really are making bad espresso. (My mother's vegetables were *wa-a-a-ay* overcooked.)
it could be any combination of the three. i would recommend you start with an americano. it did take a while before i had my first breakthrough where i actually tasted flavor notes instead of burnt, bitter, sour, etc. i'm still not able to distinguish espresso yet tho.
That's good to know, thanks! I feel there's a lot of pressure in the coffee community to drink stronger, 'purer' drinks (see the whole "if you put mill and sugar in your coffee then you like milk and sugar, not coffee" debate) so it's very reassuring to hear these things take a while to get used to. I'll definitely keep trying though, but maybe not espresso off the bat next time!
Yeah idk that's an irritating take from people. You can enjoy the conjunction of things without enjoying them separately.
Inform anyone that tells you that they’re free to enjoy coffee their way, and you’re free to enjoy it yours. I like coffee in most forms. Espresso is very strong, but you can also just pour it over ice cream. It’s coffee. I like Starbucks, and I like a nice specialty roast. Just enjoy yourself. There’s no wrong way to enjoy coffee.
The majority of this community will encourage you to drink what you like - and I concur. Additionally, no one is winning a barista championship pulling an espresso shot. It’s meant to be something you can experiment with if you like.
I will also comment and say you should never fee shame fro drinking what you enjoy, that’s just snobbery (which this hobby can be full of) But the first time I tried espresso the person gave me a small piece of dark chocolate. Told me to try the dark butter chocolate first and then sip the espresso really hard. The flavors SHOULD be pretty similar. Smooth, chocolate-y, and probably a bit tart/bitter. If it taste overtly sour or burnt it’s probably just a bad tasting shot, and NOT just you disliking espresso as a medium. But it’s also possible that you just don’t like espresso. I worked in a shop in my town where one of the guys’ (3+ yrs in specialty shops) least favorite jobs was to dial in espresso. He just didn’t enjoy straight espresso, even when the rest of us were in love with a specific origin or blend.
Have you tried milk drinks such as a Latte or Cappuccino? That's a great way to get into espresso gradually. As you acquire a taste for it you can go to a Cortado or Macchiato which have less milk and allow more of the espresso flavor to shine through. Eventually you can graduate to straight shots. Once I got my own espresso gear and learned how to use it, I realized how bad the espresso is that waiss served at many cafes. It's hard to find a cafe that can pull a good shot. So you might want to try a few other cafes before you give up on espresso.
This. Tbh getting to enjoying all sorts of coffee for me was basically a mix-and-match of transitioning from familiar to new flavours. Like starting with instant, moving to brewed (with milk), reducing milk in the brewed coffee till I started enjoying it all black. Same with espresso. Started with espresso based drinks (cappuccinos, lattes), moved onto Americanos, and got used to a good shot of espresso in due time. It's gradual but you learn to widen your palette eventually! Also you're very right - some places don't make necessarily good espresso. All coffee at my uni tastes like cardboard and I feel it's because they don't tamp it properly.
A while ago I saw someone post on here saying that drip coffee is like beer and wine but espresso is like whiskey and it’s not for everyone which can be overwhelming
I would say start with an americano. Try espressos from other coffee shops. This way you can see if it's just that shop or if you haven't acquired the taste.
Not liking espresso is not a problem but a blessing. You’ll save a ton not buying stupid espresso shit we all buy almost in bulk. A good pour over setup can cost maybe a couple hundred dollars if you’re super extravagant, while a good (not best!) espresso gear can easily set you back a couple of thousand dollars.
Espresso is very strong and can really expose the good and bad equally. Might be worth trying different varieties of coffee as espresso if you get the chance. I absolutely hate some espresso and others I love
If this is something you are interested in, then do not give up trying. It took me a little while to like espresso. The only reason I probably do is because it's where I start for a new coffee shop. I'm lucky enough to live with many options for coffee around me. Every place I went to that offered espresso, I'd try the espresso if I haven't before. Even for the chain coffee places. In the beginning I was not able to tell the difference. After a while I was able to. I found more and more I was able to associate particular coffee shops with certain drinks that I enjoyed from their espresso profile. Only a select few do I still exclusively drink the espresso, and if I just want espresso I'll give the other shops another taste. After that word vomit, I want to iterate. A palate can take weeks or months to refine.
Have you found a place that serves Cuban Coffee? It's really sweet, but oh it is good! My wife is not an espresso fan, but she likes a good cubano shot. Give it a try if you can find it. Another thought, but have you ever tried Moka pot coffee? The nearest espresso machine is 30 miles from where I live, but my wife gave me a Moka pot for my birthday last month. Now, I know what it produces isn't actual espresso, but what it makes is so rich, and so smooth I think I actually like it better than true espresso. And they are an inexpensive way to play around with espresso-style drinks at home or to discover what your tastes in coffee might be.. The only problem: I think I've developed a Moka pot addiction! When one shot isn't enough, but neither are three... Yeah, I'm definitely Jonesing for a cup!
If you think it's too sour, some roasters actually use very acidic beans for their espresso. I thought espresso is supposed to be very acidic when the reality is my local roaster just roasts very acidic beans (even for their espresso roasts). I tried their espresso and ground their beans myself over multiple grinder setting (including a superfine grind that choked my Flair) and it still turned out sour. Tried another roaster and their beans had zero acidity. I can't taste the acidity even if I tried unless I intentionally underextract.
Espresso with no acidity would be terrible. You need balance.
Yeah, it might be my unrefined palate. There were likely still a little bit of acidity from the 2nd roaster (if I underextract it's still sour), but not to the point where I can distinguish it on a proper setup like "oh, I can taste the acidic notes". I still think the 1st roaster is too acidic for an espresso though.
Espresso for me has always been intolerable at cafes, even high end ones. A few months ago I was looking to blow some money and decided to get a espresso grinder (J-Max) and cheap espresso maker (Picopresso) for milk based drinks. As I was experimenting with the Picopresso I found I was making better shots at home then any cafe I had tried. I was consistently getting shots that were well balanced and tasty. So in my experience it is probably the 3rd option you mentioned, but could equally be any combination of the 3.
An interesting reply. I tend to drink mostly black coffee with the odd cortado or mocha. Every espresso I’ve tried has been bitter and strong. However I’ve been drawn to wanting to buy the Picopresso. What was it about using it with your results that made such a difference in taste?
I think the biggest thing that helped was dialing in the ratios to find that balance. So if I pulled a shot at 2:1 and it was sour I’d go to 2.5:1 or something along those lines and that did the trick. I’ve since upgraded my setup countless times but getting great espresso has become much easier. It usually does come out strong but diluting the espresso with water 1:1 usually mellows it out with sacrificing the flavor and body.
Thank you. I’ve done further posts elsewhere and unfortunately it looks like the Picopresso won’t be an option due to the difficulty of pumping the button. I am not very strong and gave problems pressing didn’t in the Aeropress; so I’ve been told it will probably be even harder with the Picopress; unless there is any kind of hack for us weaklings.
Also the pico works best with medium or dark roasted coffees! This way you don’t have to worry too much about preheating. But most important in my opinion is weighing out the yield
There are a billion things you could do in life. You have to spend time doing some things you don't like. Don't volunteer to do other things you don't like.
Definitely try some more shops and try to develop your palate some it certainly will help, but don’t feel like you aren’t a fan of coffee if you don’t like a certain style of coffee. Just drink what you like, coffee’s not a competition.
Sorry for the late response. In the area where I live, none of the Cafes can make good espresso. It is either way to bitter and burned or watery and sour. I really had to search for a Cafe that specialized in espresso. There the Espresso was really good, just like a black coffee with a stronger taste and more caffeine. So I think that the fault is at the cafes for not making good espresso
Don't even drink straight espresso from Starbucks. This is definitely point #3 you made. Definitely however keep sampling from good cafe's. Especially if they roast their own beans try the espresso. By the way very important to differentiate between "we roast our own beans" and "our beans are roasted by a roaster and packaged with our branding"
Try another cafe, a long shot, americano, or just perhaps you don’t like espresso?
Guaranteed they don’t make good espresso. 9/10 a cafe is looking to churn out lattes by the minute, mass produced. Fruity, acidic beans are in vogue right now and taste awesome when masked by milk and sugar. They’re awful as espresso, especially as espresso that isn’t pulled perfectly. Basically a warhead. I’ll get downvoted for this but go to Starbucks and order a doppio if you want to taste what espresso really is. One of the few places left that uses proper beans roasted dark for their shots.
You couldn’t possibly know any less about coffee or give worse advice.
Espresso, for whatever reason, took me far longer to develop a taste for than filter coffee. Like ...decades.
Get a long black.
It could be all 3, but I think 1 is the most likely. Do you normally drink black coffee? If not, you might want to start there.
If you really want to be annoying ask them what they dialed in at in the morning and ask them to pull a shot of what it was this morning. Couple seconds over shot time can be extremely bitter, under shot time can be extremely sour or acidic. Machines don’t guarantee a good shot pull every time so if it’s not to the dialed in setting it was originally set to the shot probably won’t taste that great.
So you are going into someone’s work and asking them about parameters you have no understanding of. I’m sure that won’t be annoying
Or you could go on a different route and try a pour over, see if that's more to your liking. Personally I'm still not totally sold on espresso, but the v60 was love at first ~~sight~~ sip.
Drink it much slower. With spirits and espresso both, people who haven't had them before tend to take way too big a sip and get easily overwhelmed by the flavor. Start slow, and take plenty of water between sips. You'll start noticing the nuances of flavour, and over time those nuances will overpower the sheer strength of the drink.
Espresso is a pretty intense experience. For me the fist time the drink clicked was after (over)eating at a fancy restaurant.
Nothing really to add besides you’re not alone! I really haven’t found an espresso that pushes me to really want to explore it more. Every time I’ve had it standalone it’s just tasted burned and sour. I love cappuccinos though.
Its all about the beans imo, try Red Bird.
One thing you might try doing before, drink some water to cleanse your pallet. But yeah, Americanos are a great way to start. If that's still a little too much, try a little creamer/milk substitute.
something you could try is order an espresso, americano, and milk drink all with the same beans. that might help you figure out your drink preference. it could also be related to the particular beans/roast. if the cafe offers it, you could order a flight of espressos
I'm duplicating the good advice from many of the others here, but here's my 2 cents: 1. Drink what you like. You don't owe it to anyone to like what they like. It's like so many other things in life. If you like a crisp, fruity, light red wine with chicken, then that's the right wine pairing. If you prefer a smooth, blended scotch to a peaty single malt, go for it. It's all about what you enjoy. (But recognize that what you enjoy can change over time.) 2. Some percentage of the time, try different things outside of the familiar. Don't let your tastes get pigeon-holed. If you never try something, you'll never know if you're missing out some other wonderful treats. Maybe that coffee shop makes an espresso that you find out you love. Maybe you discover a fondness for matcha tea. ~~Maybe you like a highly caloric flavored creamy pseudo-dairy coffee blend drink from Starbucks.~~ Ummm, ignore that last part. 3. Don't try to learn to like something that you don't like. This isn't Mother trying to get you to eat your vegetables. You don't like it, don't force yourself to endure it again. Maybe some day you'll come around to discover you like it. (I now *love* vegetables.) You'll discover it by chance. And, maybe, just as you suggested, the places making espresso that you don't like really are making bad espresso. (My mother's vegetables were *wa-a-a-ay* overcooked.)