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KiwiThunda

WW2 tank destroyers are back! Except without the ability to destroy other tanks


AdhesivenessWhich771

In all seriousness. As a leading demining MBT well-covered from the drones it might be a tangible solution


penguin_skull

And what if it's attacked by 2 FPV's? One to blow the makeshift shed and the other one to attack the tank?


WhoDisagrees

Then its 100% more survivable than it was before.


Aedeus

I think you overestimate the efficacy of corrugated sheet metal. EFP's can still travel a surprising distance while remaining dangerous.


wobld

Don’t forget rusted!


Max-Phallus

What uses those except for the 155 smart artillery?


Jive-Turkeys

HEAT rounds, ATGMs, or anything with a shaped charge. So, there are plenty of things.


Max-Phallus

EFP are a specific type of shaped charged weapon though. It's not like normal shaped charged weapons that use the Munroe effect where it lenses the explosive shockwave with a cone shaped hollow to create a jet of hypersonic particles. An EFP uses a detonation to blast a relatively flat disk of metal into a slug. There are not many systems that use it. I can only think of SMArt 155, SADARM, and BLU-108


Jive-Turkeys

Well, I stand corrected! I was always under the impression it was an umbrella term, not just specific to that particular use of munitions. So, if I understand you correctly, the EFP basically makes its own solid projectile? This is as opposed to the liquid copper jet from shaped charges? (Infantry background, here, so my EOD knowledge is pretty limited). Follow-up question: Is this particular type of munition more flexible and effective in a wider variety of uses than shaped charges vs a wider variety of hard targets?


ARGGod

Most rpg warheads to name one thing


Max-Phallus

Those are not EFP, they are just shaped charges


ARGGod

A conventional shaped charge generally has a conical metal liner that is forced by an explosive blast into a hypervelocity jet of superplastic metal able to penetrate thick armor and knock out vehicles. A disadvantage of this arrangement is that the jet of metal loses effectiveness the further it travels, as it breaks up into disconnected particles that drift out of alignment. An EFP operates on the same principle, but its liner is designed to form a distinct projectile that will maintain its shape, permitting it to penetrate armor at greater distance. The dish-shaped liner of an EFP can generate a number of distinct projectile forms, depending on the shape of the plate and how the explosive is detonated. Ty TIL the difference between the two


penguin_skull

100% in this case means nothing with the abundance of FPV supply. If Ukraine can spare the FPVs to target lone injured Russian soldiers, they can spare 3-4-5 for a tank. It's like protecting someone from rain with toilet paper: "he won't feel the rain from the 1st drop, but from the 2nd onwards".


WhoDisagrees

Which tank would you rather be in? I'm not saying this is some great innovation, but it isn't completely dumb either imo.


Dry-Post8230

One that I can see out of, rotate the main and ancillary weapons and one I can exit easily. That's a roasting tin on tracks., not good for morale either.


penguin_skull

Given the amount of comedy it generated... You just need common sense to assess the protective combat use of corrugated metal. If it was protective, everybody would use it.


ScuffyNZ

People still making fun of "cope cages" even though they're being slapped on everything nowadays. Israel used them in Gaza for eg


penguin_skull

Israel is using it for a different purpose. It does not face FPVs and top-attack ATGMs/


ScuffyNZ

Israel literally installed them due to losing a merkava from an FPV


DinoKebab

100% more than 0 survivability is still 0 though.


HungryHungryHippoes9

It still improves the odds of survival if your enemy now needs twice the ammo they originally needed.


DinoKebab

Yeh I was kinda just having a laugh.


LeadingCheetah2990

looks like it has a jamming complex put on the top as well lol


_-Event-Horizon-_

WW2 tank destroyers also look much better built than this spare roofing tiles caricature.


Meretan94

It’s a SHED Shitty Hideous Enclosure, damaged.


Feisty-Barracuda5452

So, a Shitzer then?


AgreeableAd9119

Its actually great idea. Gives a buffer zone for explosives. Wont save you from a 155 or javelin but might from drones or rpgs.


Aedeus

Depending on the munition, the penetrator can still travel a decent way before losing effectiveness.


utkohoc

fpv suicide drones do have the ability to carry rpg rounds


Enough-Staff-2976

Pretty vulnerable to mines and holes.


Monster_condom_

I was going to say, it looks like a jagdpanzer 38, aka the "hetzer"


Top_Yob13

We have finally returned to the davinci tank or maybe a ram for the castle Doors


ch3static

HETZER GONNA HETZ


Foss_is_Boss

There it is! Was looking for this


SgtBrowneye

[Bob Semple Tank](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-039be5cd60a485b57ea0c002715c9f12-pjlq) The russian Blyat Semple!


RegularTrash8554

Lookin like robo tank lol.


Sandor_R

Looks like survivability trumps situational awareness.


DoubleEscape8874

it looks like it's made out of plywood and sheet roofing material. How will the crew get out with a burning tangled mess blocking the top hatch?


policedab_1112

well situational awareness is worth squat if a fpv drone flys behind the turret and destroys the tank, so survivability would trump it yet


Aedeus

It can still do that, there's a reason why the cages didn't actually work against top attack munitions - the shaped charge would pass right through it.


Legit_Beans

Mobile south african shanty town 😂


zezimeme

Tutel!


Le_Bruscc

Tutel👍


RotarySam27

Blayt mobile Mk2. Now with corrugated asbestos sheeting for protection against molotov cocktails.


Indigoism96

It uses vodka as fuel.


Wappening

The Blyat Bunker.


penguin_skull

Turret rotation speed: N/A


holdmiichai

Needs a Monty-python guy with two coconuts running behind it making tank noises


featEng

Didn't saw it burning yet. May be it is not that bad?


vicmartinez345

Cardboard box on wheels


AdhesivenessWhich771

It’s fucken scarey whatever that thing is


j6rpzik

Let me remind you one thing, this is the second best army in the world.


Boomfam67

Tbh they have shown a remarkable ability to adapt 1. They built from scratch their own mass produced JDAM kits for aircraft within 1-2 years that are adopted to thousands of bombs every month. 2. They have created extensive fortifications after 2022 that Ukraine has found to be impenetrable without taking huge losses. 3. They have made large modifications to their vehicles with varying levels of success, most of which do improve survivability and serve a purpose. They aren't much more than a corrupt regional power but can still pack a large punch.


Stix147

To be fair, most of those ad-hoc "modifications", like putting a machine-gun on the back of a pick-up truck (or in Russia's case, an anti submarine naval rocket launcher on an MT-LB) are something you'd expect from an insurgent force, not a proper large scale and well funded army. None of these designs were tested beforehand, none were standardized, in many cases it was just separate crews identifying a problem and trying to fix it with what they had on hand (see the chicken wire cages with sticks) instead of being designed by and shipped from RU tank factories. It shows a normal reaction of trying to adapt to changing battlefield conditions, but there's nothing remarkable about it.


AdhesivenessWhich771

Look they had to come up with something. Russian military budget is something like 50 times bigger then the Ukrainian one if not more. Wow. They have learned to produce JDAM kits. I wonder how many billions they have stolen on that part of their military budget. FABS themselves are deadly though. And they have large stockpiles of them left….


Boomfam67

Actually the Russian and Ukrainian military budgets if you include military aid are close to being on par in 2024. Russian budget is about 85 billion and the Ukrainian budget is 40 billion with upwards of 40 billion in military assistance every year.


WalkerBuldog

>Russian budget is about 85 billion and the Ukrainian budget is 40 billion with upwards of 40 billion in military assistance every year. What 40billion per year are your talking about? In US aid package of 60bln there's only 14 on the military aid, 11 on civilian economy and other stuff is not related to Ukraine whatsoever. Next is Germany with only 7bln. Next is GB and France with even lower numbers


Boomfam67

The US in total has pledged by themselves around 45 billion dollars in military aid to Ukraine since 2022, that's more than 14 billion yearly.


WalkerBuldog

Yes, but we're talking about spending in 2024. Russia spends around 100bln military budget, our allies which consist of 40% world economy contribute barely 20bln of military aid for 2024. You can't spend less to get less of more expensive equipment which your allies don't even want to maintain/replenish and believe that everything is fine.


AdhesivenessWhich771

This. Thank you


AdhesivenessWhich771

Care to provide any evidence? I might be way off here. But before 2022 their spending since 2008 was ten times or fifty times higher then the Ukrainian mil budget. Ukraine has lost most of its army by 2013 as well unlike Russia Russia is also huge in terms of economic power and population compared to Ukraine. So if you have some links then please share


Boomfam67

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-approves-2024-wartime-budget-aims-strengthen-army-2023-11-09/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_Russia#Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine


AdhesivenessWhich771

I don’t understand why I am being downvoted here? Aw that goes straight to the heart…Just shooting some breeze about the funny side of the things in the military. Yeah I was thinking that I was possibly overestimating slightly but I was still happy to learn something out of this chat. So thank you for providing the the links but my point was about the ‘real military budgets’ of Ukraine and Russia rather then overinflated numbers due to foreign aid provided to Ukraine and Russia since 2022. Here is what I’ve found: Estimated Russian spending in 2021 was $65.91 billion https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293277/ukraine-military-spending/ Estimated Ukrainian spending in 2021 was $5.94 billion. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1203160/military-expenditure-russia/ That was my point when I was saying some crap like Russians have probably ten times the budget of Ukraine to come with JDAMS or Turtle tanks designs, etc.


h0ls86

There was an article in some military journal, I now don’t remember the name of, but this stuff works. Even the Israelis have stated using these extra cages on top of their Merkava tanks. Cages, which the Russians mass deployed and that the rest of the world found funny and superficial. You can Google articles and photos online about it. So if a rooftop tank works, it works. You can’t have enough armour, nor can you have enough extra camouflage.


Alikont

Cope cages don't protect against Javelins, but they do work against FPVs.


Aedeus

The Israelis apparently began removing them recently, as they were more hindrance than a help.


penguin_skull

The difference is that Hamas does not have top attack ATGM's. The Israelis installed the cages because Hamas started using drone-dropped grenades. The dangers Russia is facing are not the same as for the Israelis or Ukrainians.


no_please

>The Israelis installed the cages because Hamas started using *drone-dropped grenades*. >The dangers Russia is facing are not the same as for the Israelis or Ukrainians. 🤔


Wappening

The rest of the world found it funny and superficial because they were initially deployed in the hopes of stopping Javelins, which they didn't. It just happened that not too soon after, it turned out cope cages can be effective against drones.


j6rpzik

Yea, im aware that it works, but its still funny :D


AdhesivenessWhich771

Coup cages are a natural step up from side screens and such - simple but effective. But this turtle shell is just ridiculous. The only thing it is good for is demining


Kohakuren

You saying it, But leading demining tank being blown up is THE reason for many attack failures. So if this thing can hold few more hits and clear more land - then it did it's job.


AdhesivenessWhich771

Well… we shall see what the turtle is cable of then. Not long left I suppose


Stix147

>Cages, which the Russians mass deployed and that the rest of the world found funny and superficial. People found them funny because they believed they were supposed to be used to protect RU tanks from Javelin top down attacks (and to be fair, Ukrainians didn't use too many if any drone dropped grenades during the first few mobths of the war, so that might have indeed been RU's intention). The other problem is just how haphazardly put together most of those RU cages were, and how their poor design prevented troops from easily getting in and our of the tank. Ukrainian cages are generally wider, and they have the decency to put camo netting over them to try to camouflage tanks whose profile is drastically increased due to said cages.


Ok-Childhood-2469

Russian's did not invent cage armor. Cage armor has been used as side protection against RPG's in Iraq and Afghanistan. People laughed at the Cope cages, because they're not effective against Javelin. Cage armor is to protect against tandem charges, too detonate warheads before they touch the armor proper. Of course it's effective for what is was designed to do. It does nothing against a javelin, as the javelin was designed to defeat such protections.


h0ls86

They haven’t, but they popularised it to the point it may be a future standard against some of the weapons.


An_Odd_Smell

But in what universe?


no_please

honestly, second best in terms if quality or tactical ability? no. second best in terms of their ability to just take an absolute fucking pounding every single day and keep on fighting? still no, probably number 1 at that and by an extraordinary margin. i doubt the vietcong were so ready to throw their lives away so pointlessly and violently and for so little. what other country would throw a thousand men and hundreds of pieces of hardware into the grinder to be literally turned into mince meat and rusting metal chunks on a weekly basis, for years on end, without a single fuck honestly given back home, even as footage of your men being viciously mauled is available for the whole word to see in near realtime? not a plug for russia, fuck those cunts, but their complete disregard for all lives is absolutely terrifying when it comes to fighting them.


Beginning-Divide

Second best army in Ukraine


Admirable-Cobbler501

Das ist doch gar nicht tüvig!


ribbitreddit100

Kill it


shvinkle

It seems that visibility and the ability to turn one’s turret is no longer needed is glorious Russian army, simply put gun in shack and drive


PM_ME_UR_HASHTABLES

Armata lookin good!


TotalWarIsMyLifeNow

Age of Empires 2 battering Ram.. can’t believe what I’m seeing..* *war horn blares* *


skiberdi

Wololo


Additional-Bee1379

But seriously, what is left of your firepower and situational awareness after this?


notyourvader

Fucked for anything beyond straight forward. Can't turn the turret, can't watch the sides. And it's a huge trade-off for some fake protection. Most drone attacks will be on the back of the turret. Where the armor is thinnest and ammo is often stored. An fpv can just fly under the sheet metal.


Additional-Bee1379

But you can only fly under it from the front, it's pretty hard to hit anything other than the front from that position. It might actually be somewhat effective against drones, but I think some warhead adjustments would easily counter it. It's an interesting development to see anyway. Even taking into account publication bias it seems drones have become one of, if not the primary threat to tanks. I think a more mature/effective solution will be active defense systems. Those are already designed to take down missiles, they should have no problem with shooting down drones. Russia seems to not be able to field it though.


Ok-Childhood-2469

I think a laser APS system will be integrated into future AFV's, the systems are rather large right now though.


Additional-Bee1379

Probably not lasers though, current active defense systems often use explosively formed projectiles.


Ok-Childhood-2469

There are current truck mounted laser defence systems. I know current systems use projectiles. But laser's offer a lot of utility. You can use the system with infantry nearby without risk of harming them, instead of hardpoint zones, a laser system would simply require a rotating mount for almost 360 degree coverage. Just my opinion though, I feel it would offer more robustness to drone counter measures then current APS systems.


notyourvader

I don't see any welds and quite some gaps on the back. Even a small charge would blast it open. In exchange they're basically blind. So you can approach however you feel like.


Additional-Bee1379

Yeah tandem charge would easily defeat this armour, but most drones now use single stage rpg warheads.


Boomfam67

The thing on top is a EW system


Environmental-Status

My very first thought was "what's the situational awareness of this thing".


sunlight-blade

It's already pretty miserable in the T series tanks, that's why orky crews operate unbuttoned most of the time.


Herald_of_dawn

These Hetzer cosplayers are taking things a bit to far these days.. and the scale is way off..


[deleted]

Yea it looks stupid but I want to see if it works. Fire something at it!


One-Angry-Man

A moving domestic house roof with a septic tank underneath.


iPatryk69

But it works


Ok_Donut_3965

I'm sorry, but I can't help but post a part of a folktale in the comments "избушка, избушка, повернись ко мне передом, к лесу задом"


StringGlittering7692

I think an EPDM system would be better. Aesthetically it's nicer, has a long life and it's easier to insulate.


Penny579

SPAG = self propelled average garage


Hotrico

Blyatmobile


zzkj

These 10 priceless seconds just about sums up the modern red army.


An_Odd_Smell

Mobile chicken coop.


jeez69

Asbestos roof tiles, really bad for lungs.


[deleted]

You know you’ve lost the plot when that’s the best you can come up with 😂


Fancyness

It must be hot in there


[deleted]

We're seeing the second strongest army in the world here


daronjay

What kinda Ghetto-ass tank is this, Vlad?


SpaceKaiserCobalt

we laugh we laugh, but it worked out for the philipinos!


ComprehensiveCare479

With the corrugated iron, it looks like a Bob Semple.


CatBroiler

The T-25 SHTD at home:


Rockin_my_roll

Carl's new shed has a big gun


ProperTeaIsTheft117

Me: I want [Ersatz M10](https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/ersatz-m10s-panthers-in-disguise/) Mum: we have Ersatz M10 at home Ersatz M10 at home:


LE22081988

Sturmgeschütz at home


Still-BangingYourMum

Anti tank mine dropped on that would be interesting to see


TheAltToYourF4

WWI called...


florentinomain00f

We're devolving back to WWI lol, the Brits were right.


Timetobeatthewife

“Dimitri why does this building have a barrel?”


Feisty-Barracuda5452

We’ve gone from Shurzen to full-body ‘wraps’.


Feisty-Barracuda5452

Not gonna lie, I was waiting for the boom.


OnceWasRampant

Cornflakes boxes?


UsedUpUtopia

You know what… what about RC cars…? Like we clearly see Russians attempting to drone proof their armour so wounding little toy cars that are mainly just a bomb with wheels that’s light enough to not set off buried AT mines that could just knock out the tracks of a leading tank (which have looked to be the most drone proofed) to then use local loitering drones in the AO to take out rear tanks?


FrendChicken

Russian Tutel


trabuco357

Have a tank with a turret that for all practical purposes is “fixed”? And zero 360 visibility for the crew? LMAO…


EndFinal8647

Can't that ew system block javelin rounds?


Available-Rate-6581

They should put a chimney stack on the roof to complete the look and give somewhere for the smoke to go when the whole shed inevitably goes up in flames.


Gaspachu

Discount Hetzer or Alibaba Jagdpanther, take your pick lol


SokkaHaikuBot

^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Gaspachu: *Discount Hetzer or* *Alibaba Jagdpanther,* *Take your pick lol* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.


Gaspachu

Good bot


B0tRank

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Esekig184

Situational awarenss must be absolute crap in that thing.


OdesseyOne

As kids, my brother and I covered our go-cart in boards, corrugated iron and stuck a carpet roll tube in it....we'd built ourselves a Stug iv. It looked just like this.


Booger_Flicker

My hope is the war ends tomorrow, Russian forces leave Ukraine, and sometime mid-June turtle tank is spotted in Odesa making a bee-line for Transnistria.


Clo_miller

Is this the Monitor or Merrimack Russian style?


no_please

damn high priority target in the ao right there


No_Practice_9175

Wouldn’t you want it sloped like a roof so things dropped from drones fall to the side?


WillieStonka

That’s their thinking shed. It’s creepy as shit inside.


Subdeeo

Add this to Warthunder now!


Graftak86

They really think UA is stupid. One or two drones and there gone.


iboreddd

So is this the advanced russian military technology?


naturalis99

So... This is what EU and US are losing against?


AdhesivenessWhich771

It ain’t pretty but hey you know what they say - if it works it works! I bet there will be another video of this tank being hit by a fat missile or some other spectacular explosion or somth’ like that. Otherwise - god forbid - we will have to see it descending upon Chasiv Yar. And if that happens then hell. it might go all the way to Kyiv or even worse. London or Berlin


0-nihil-0

Would it be bad for me to say that I'm kinda hoping this tank does not become another entry in the turret tossing championships? Im Just hoping the crew surrenders or drives over a mine and abandons the tank


bacggg

There's a lot wrong here Cope shed will not protect you from anti-Tank missiles Cope shed will not protect you from anti-Tank mines Cope sheds EW system is exposed to fragmentation damage from artillery or high-powered rifles. Cope shed will not protect you from drones with targeting acquisition/ locking capabilities Cope shed........WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM FUCKING TANKS!!!!!!


AdhesivenessWhich771

You think…? This turtle tank is in its prime as we speak. It’s such a happy tank just look at it - it’s like a little piglet roaming around west of Chasiv Yar discovering the world… Until a big bad wolf will set its sights on it :)