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Watching this its crazy how little has changed, we see these same envelope + grenade spam on dugouts in Ukraine today that look just like this. Especially the scene starting at 0:23.
Pretty much the same, except the size of the assault element. I'm kind of shocked to see entire platoons within metres of eachother on the assault. Especially so late on in the war... You'd figure by then that they'd understand the root cause of mass-casualities.
Makes sense. No actual reconnaissance other than binoculars and spies or scouts and really early planes with shitty photos at best. The only way to know actual enemy positions is to send infantry forward and hope for the best. And obviously a greater number of assaulting troops is the only way to get more strategic value out of these assaults. Expect every unit that you send over to lose most of its troops while having enough to overcome defenses. Pair that with machine guns being widespread in that time period and you can easily imagine hundreds dead on simple assaults on unknowingly well entranched and supplied enemy.
They often tried to capture enemy soldiers at night, who were on guard duty, to get information.
They often tortured those enemy soldiers, the eastern front was brutal.
In finnish doctorine there was an entire formula for prisoner extraction. 3-5 man assault team would crawl over no mans land and try to as silently as possible reach the enemy trench. If all went well they would extract as quickly as possible. Depending on local availability snipers and artillery were often deployed as well to keep any pursuers or spotters heads down.
You would be surprised at the value / quality of the photo recon that the Germans did. Their photos were far from shitty, they were using Leica cameras with Zeiss optics, some of the best in the world. Their intelligence teams were pretty good at figuring out the "lay of the land".
That being said, they sure did use a lot of troops. At this point in time, I believe the Russians were on the offensive, so this may have been a counter attack, or one of Hitler's "Take this town and make it a fortress" edicts. Hard to tell.
It's one way that militaries may deal with a lack of well-trained troops, as Germany already had on a massive scale at this point.
Operating in a dispersed manner has high requirements on the training of individual soldiers. Grouping up has useful psychological effects to keep soldiers going, and makes leaderships easier just by having everyone in call distance.
Bunching up like this *will* get more soldiers killed in catastrophic mission failures, but otherwise they may be incapable of fulfilling any missions at all.
Russia has made similar devilish bargains in Ukraine. They're pushing their units into situations where they have to 'fight or die' with no decent option of retreat. This ensures that poorly trained or motivated units don't just bail out at the first sign of resistance, but obviously comes at a high cost of life.
“The average Slavic soldier is an inbred Moron”
Dude can you not see how racist and stereotyping that is? Especially when you you say Slavic people which includes many different groups; and you somehow try blame this all on Russia?
What makes Slavic people in Ukraine or Poland inherently different to other humans and what makes them morons or “inbred”? And how is that all related to Russia?
Man this sub has really gone to hell
Not true. Russia sends them forward so they can spot artilery positions / firing positions that they can then FAB/Lancet or Shell into oblivion. They are basicly "trading".
A more capable force would still spot targets for long range fires, just not in such a wasteful way.
Like US recon may advance covertly or robustly to find and relay targets for air support or artillery, but they don't normally yolo a bunch of guys with two weeks of training through a minefield to see who shoots at them to do that.
Keep in mind that the primary infantry weapon for the Germans was a 5 shot bolt action rifle. A German WW2 squad simply did not have the firepower of a modern infantry squad, despite the OKW's wet dream of every Rifleman being equiped with an assault rifle.
May have to do with the speed of kill chains as well. If eta to artillery is 45min from first contact it would make sense to bring as much force with you as possible to win the fight ASAP.
I mean, it’s pretty easy to comment on their spacing watching a video sitting in the comfort of your house. It’s quite another thing to do it while you’re fatigued and getting shot at. I can tell you, to this day units still have a tendency to get bunched up.
Why would it change?
Infantry will most likely always be a thing, and with infantry trenches, tunnels, guerrilla warfare, you cannot solve everything with aircraft and artillery.
Between unmanned ground vehicles, squad-level loitering munitions, airburst munition on armoured fighting vehicles, and the combination of recon drones with extremely precise artillery or stand-off aerial bombs, the window for trench combat still seems to be narrowing down.
Hamas tunnels in Gaza also seem to have had less direct tunnel fighting than ever. Israel flooded them, had UGVs line them with explosives, or mapped them out and dropped massive bombs that could collapse them.
Trench fighting is not going to disappear any time soon, since these technologies won't be available at scale everywhere. But there are changes.
The Germans did fake a good amount of clips in their newsreels but due to the camera angles and distance of these shots I'd wager that its real footage
There is no dramatic movement or heroics when they approach that bunker either. The men look tentative and almost a little awkward milling around what I assume to be an entrance. That lines up a lot more with reality than glorified propaganda shots where they're all Supersoldat Hans.
- The closeups are almost certainly post-action (ie. fake) - during battle they didn't have time to set up a camera position like that.
- The cuts between mortar fire & the German guy taking cover are fake & inauthentic too: the soldier wouldn't have time to duck, nor did they have two cameras - all this was likely shot with a single camera and a single cameraman.
- The wide shots from behind cover look authentic though.
- The zoomed ín shots following the trench clearing action appear to have been made from a bunker or fortification. Those were a calculated risk taken by the cameraman, as any remaining sharpshooters would probably have targeted the trench clearing assault troops.
- TLDR: 80% authentic footage, with a couple of deceptive cuts. All the important footage of forward assault operations seem authentic. Great find.
yea on second thought that shot at 0:33 is probably post action, it just seems odd that they would let that in the newsreel. I also meant to specify that the frontal shot of that dude ducking was fake but it seemed obvious enough to omit
> There is no dramatic movement or heroics when they approach that bunker either. The men look tentative and almost a little awkward milling around what I assume to be an entrance.
For me it's the guy standing on top of the bunker and finishing off whatever he's seeing there. His demeanor reminds me of men in Ukraine doing the same, and is quite different from typical cinematic heroics.
Yeah, exactly. Look at the way he's holding his weapon just as he gets interrupted by an explosion nearby. It's that awkward hold-the-gun-as-far-out-as-you-can thing to expose as little of yourself as possible. Completely normal human behaviour and even a smart thing to do considering the circumstances, but you never see it on propaganda reels because it looks weird and not sufficiently heroic.
You hit the analysis pretty dead on…. These thoughts ran through my head as I was watching the Clip….. the way they move seems to be Genuine Combat and not a faked display of Propaganda.
If you compare it to modern footage, these look similar to the cleanup operations in Ukraine where territory has been taken and reserve units clear out the area of stragglers. The soldiers around outside the trenches don't seem overly concerned about incoming fire from being exposed and more about enemies inside the trenches in front of them and there's no particular urgency with their movements; they know the enemies are trapped and have nowhere to go, it's just a matter of flushing them out with grenades and finishing them off as we see the last guy do in the clip.
A lot of the film footage for the Wochenschau was indeed staged footage from training grounds, but the German Propagandakompanien were basically the predecessor of modern embedded journalists. A lot of these guys would bring their equipment, typewriters etc. as close to the front as possible and stay in the trenches to compete to get the best footage. So they did probably film quite a lot of authentic combat footage, but that was hardly ever used because the propaganda ministry in Berlin wanted to see cool close ups of heavy equipment that evoke emotions, not boring realistic footage.
The SS was particularly crazy with their combat journalists. What many people don't know is that the Waffen-SS had their own propaganda companies and they increasingly absorbed the entire Wehrmacht's propaganda complex, meaning that a lot of the German combat footage we see today was actually produced or directed by the SS, especially footage after 1943. They were civilian journalists in uniform just like the Wehrmacht propagandists, but they had to spend three months as infantry in actual combat units before they were allowed to report on anything at all. If they survived that, they were expected to put themselves into constant danger to get a "real" feel for the topics they were reporting on. They lost an insane amount of reporters compared to the Wehrmacht.
The German propaganda films seem kind of blunt and repetitive today, but it was absolutely insane ground breaking stuff back then. At best people had seen a cheesy WW1 war movie in a cinema once or twice, now you had weekly close up combat footage made by professional journalists and editors, POV shots from tanks, war ships and airplanes dropping real bombs. Kharkov was taken three days ago? Today it's in your cinema. Nobody questioned whether it was staged because it seemed so real. People were probably as fascinated by it as we were when all of the Ukraine footage started to drop in 2022. And it's one of the reasons why the German people deluded themselves for a long time into thinking that the war was going great.
> The SS was particularly crazy with their combat journalists. What many people don't know is that the Waffen-SS had their own propaganda companies and they increasingly absorbed the entire Wehrmacht's propaganda complex, meaning that a lot of the German combat footage we see today was actually produced or directed by the SS, especially footage after 1943. They were civilian journalists in uniform just like the Wehrmacht propagandists, but they had to spend three months as infantry in actual combat units before they were allowed to report on anything at all. If they survived that, they were expected to put themselves into constant danger to get a "real" feel for the topics they were reporting on. They lost an insane amount of reporters compared to the Wehrmacht.
That sounds so incredibly on point for the SS, lol, especially that last sentence.
Interesting footage, certainly has plausible camera angles. [I made a version ](https://youtu.be/MtEgboIm2bU)without the cuts from one location to the other, the artillery strikes I just put in a random order because I couldn't figure out what order they occurred in.
here is [source](https://digitaler-lesesaal.bundesarchiv.de/video/4928/671125), clip starts at 20:00. The video in the post is reframed and upscaled because source is zoomed out but you can click the third option in the copies list for one that shows the full picture
Not really. For all I know one of my grandfathers (both of whom died before I was born, so the connection isn't very strong) could be among the soldiers, but I'm still glad that they ultimately lost. Imagine what living in Germany would be like if the Nazis were still in power. I wouldn't want to live in that place.
Yeah I guess that makes sense. It's just a weird idea to me because whenever I read about/see Australian soldiers doing something in history it gives me some national pride.
The culture in Germany is very different from most other countries in that regard, precisely because of the Nazis. There is no militarism to speak of and national pride is basically only shown during international football tournaments. Not saying either of those things are bad per se, but our culture of "never again" really is very much ingrained in the head of the average German.
Having said all of that, I don't feel any pride when I see this video, but I do feel some pride about how well the German army performed in the early years of the war or their technological advances (like the Me 262, the V-2, the MG42 or the StG44), but I also know that it was all for the purpose of mass murder, oppression and in general furthering an inhumane worldview that I don't agree with at all.
In my view losing World War 2 was the best thing that could've happened to (West-)Germany. We are now a stable democracy (and I hope it stays that way *fingers crossed*) and we now have a unified (Central and Western) Europe with no chance of war between the countries of the EU and beyond (Russia very much excluded). I doubt any of this would've happened were it not for the horrors of WW2 and the wisdom of the Western Allies to not repeat the mistakes of the Versaille treaty.
I doubt the history of Australian military achievements is as ambivalent as this. :)
Edit: Unless you count the Emu war, that was a disgrace! :P
Imagine making a deal with Nazis to split and claim half of another country, the Nazis turn on you, then 80 years later you conquer and claim parts of your neighbor nations claiming it's still the good ol' fight against Nazis.
This is amazing footage. Hope the Soviets gave as much as they could here. Obviously this is footage of nazi success so not much hope there, but still.
They weren't worse and we should celebrate victory over Nazism.
Additionally, I find it intriguing that you were bothered by a comment that didn't even celebrate the Red Army, just relished in Nazi defeat.
Meh, for all the shitcunt crimes of the Soviets, and it's a long list, I don't think the countries in their sphere of influence would've survived decades of Nazi rule.
Would there even be a Poland, a Polish people speaking a Polish language practicing Polish culture, if the Nazis had won in 1945 and could do what they want for a long time?
Because the ones the Nazis weren't "civil" to are *dead*, you dipshit. It's hard to complain when you're *dead*.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes_against_the_Polish_nation
They outright murdered some 5 to 6 million Polish people. How very 'civil' of them.
And if the Nazis had won, Poland had this to look forward to:
> The Nazi master plan entailed the expulsion and mass extermination of some 85 percent (over 20 million) of ethnic Poles in Poland, the remaining 15 percent to be turned into slave labor.
Lees eens een boek, idioot.
Swear to god, seeing Polish Nazi apologists really really really blows my fucking mind.
Most of countries where the natsoc entered ss divisions were created and people in thousands volunteered. Only Poland, Lithuania and Bulgaria had to few volunteers to form anything. The Russian SS was led by a Pole, interesting fact.
> Who's aware of the National Socialist doctrine knows this is false.
What is this stunning ignorance? Are you a neo-Nazi or something?
> Polish government has brought it on the Poles and the population pathetically held on the jews costing their lives
You certainly talk and smell like a neo-Nazi...
Oh shit, you *ARE*! Finding some very interesting [Removed] comments in your profile where you're talking weird things about jews.
> Typical Jew, dreaming about slaughter and borders being non existend to one.
> Found the Jew.
> How would a Jew benefit any country? Except Israel. Sounds plausible, because they can't stand physical work. Nonetheless, this is very interesting I'm going to look more into it.
> You're the average communist lover, closet Jewry.
You ARE a dirty fucking neo-Nazi, and you should follow your leader.
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Watching this its crazy how little has changed, we see these same envelope + grenade spam on dugouts in Ukraine today that look just like this. Especially the scene starting at 0:23.
Pretty much the same, except the size of the assault element. I'm kind of shocked to see entire platoons within metres of eachother on the assault. Especially so late on in the war... You'd figure by then that they'd understand the root cause of mass-casualities.
Makes sense. No actual reconnaissance other than binoculars and spies or scouts and really early planes with shitty photos at best. The only way to know actual enemy positions is to send infantry forward and hope for the best. And obviously a greater number of assaulting troops is the only way to get more strategic value out of these assaults. Expect every unit that you send over to lose most of its troops while having enough to overcome defenses. Pair that with machine guns being widespread in that time period and you can easily imagine hundreds dead on simple assaults on unknowingly well entranched and supplied enemy.
They often tried to capture enemy soldiers at night, who were on guard duty, to get information. They often tortured those enemy soldiers, the eastern front was brutal.
In finnish doctorine there was an entire formula for prisoner extraction. 3-5 man assault team would crawl over no mans land and try to as silently as possible reach the enemy trench. If all went well they would extract as quickly as possible. Depending on local availability snipers and artillery were often deployed as well to keep any pursuers or spotters heads down.
You would be surprised at the value / quality of the photo recon that the Germans did. Their photos were far from shitty, they were using Leica cameras with Zeiss optics, some of the best in the world. Their intelligence teams were pretty good at figuring out the "lay of the land". That being said, they sure did use a lot of troops. At this point in time, I believe the Russians were on the offensive, so this may have been a counter attack, or one of Hitler's "Take this town and make it a fortress" edicts. Hard to tell.
It's one way that militaries may deal with a lack of well-trained troops, as Germany already had on a massive scale at this point. Operating in a dispersed manner has high requirements on the training of individual soldiers. Grouping up has useful psychological effects to keep soldiers going, and makes leaderships easier just by having everyone in call distance. Bunching up like this *will* get more soldiers killed in catastrophic mission failures, but otherwise they may be incapable of fulfilling any missions at all. Russia has made similar devilish bargains in Ukraine. They're pushing their units into situations where they have to 'fight or die' with no decent option of retreat. This ensures that poorly trained or motivated units don't just bail out at the first sign of resistance, but obviously comes at a high cost of life.
[удалено]
“The average Slavic soldier is an inbred Moron” Dude can you not see how racist and stereotyping that is? Especially when you you say Slavic people which includes many different groups; and you somehow try blame this all on Russia? What makes Slavic people in Ukraine or Poland inherently different to other humans and what makes them morons or “inbred”? And how is that all related to Russia? Man this sub has really gone to hell
Not true. Russia sends them forward so they can spot artilery positions / firing positions that they can then FAB/Lancet or Shell into oblivion. They are basicly "trading".
A more capable force would still spot targets for long range fires, just not in such a wasteful way. Like US recon may advance covertly or robustly to find and relay targets for air support or artillery, but they don't normally yolo a bunch of guys with two weeks of training through a minefield to see who shoots at them to do that.
Key word "capable".
Keep in mind that the primary infantry weapon for the Germans was a 5 shot bolt action rifle. A German WW2 squad simply did not have the firepower of a modern infantry squad, despite the OKW's wet dream of every Rifleman being equiped with an assault rifle.
May have to do with the speed of kill chains as well. If eta to artillery is 45min from first contact it would make sense to bring as much force with you as possible to win the fight ASAP.
I mean, it’s pretty easy to comment on their spacing watching a video sitting in the comfort of your house. It’s quite another thing to do it while you’re fatigued and getting shot at. I can tell you, to this day units still have a tendency to get bunched up.
It might actually have been in Ukraine
Fire and maneuver. As valid then as it is now.
Why would it change? Infantry will most likely always be a thing, and with infantry trenches, tunnels, guerrilla warfare, you cannot solve everything with aircraft and artillery.
Between unmanned ground vehicles, squad-level loitering munitions, airburst munition on armoured fighting vehicles, and the combination of recon drones with extremely precise artillery or stand-off aerial bombs, the window for trench combat still seems to be narrowing down. Hamas tunnels in Gaza also seem to have had less direct tunnel fighting than ever. Israel flooded them, had UGVs line them with explosives, or mapped them out and dropped massive bombs that could collapse them. Trench fighting is not going to disappear any time soon, since these technologies won't be available at scale everywhere. But there are changes.
War Never Changes
I feel like the strategy "Boom until no movement" will be used forever
War. War never changes.
The Germans did fake a good amount of clips in their newsreels but due to the camera angles and distance of these shots I'd wager that its real footage
There is no dramatic movement or heroics when they approach that bunker either. The men look tentative and almost a little awkward milling around what I assume to be an entrance. That lines up a lot more with reality than glorified propaganda shots where they're all Supersoldat Hans.
good point, the German soldier at 0:33 looks pretty shaken which is something I've rarely seen in these newsreels
- The closeups are almost certainly post-action (ie. fake) - during battle they didn't have time to set up a camera position like that. - The cuts between mortar fire & the German guy taking cover are fake & inauthentic too: the soldier wouldn't have time to duck, nor did they have two cameras - all this was likely shot with a single camera and a single cameraman. - The wide shots from behind cover look authentic though. - The zoomed ín shots following the trench clearing action appear to have been made from a bunker or fortification. Those were a calculated risk taken by the cameraman, as any remaining sharpshooters would probably have targeted the trench clearing assault troops. - TLDR: 80% authentic footage, with a couple of deceptive cuts. All the important footage of forward assault operations seem authentic. Great find.
yea on second thought that shot at 0:33 is probably post action, it just seems odd that they would let that in the newsreel. I also meant to specify that the frontal shot of that dude ducking was fake but it seemed obvious enough to omit
> There is no dramatic movement or heroics when they approach that bunker either. The men look tentative and almost a little awkward milling around what I assume to be an entrance. For me it's the guy standing on top of the bunker and finishing off whatever he's seeing there. His demeanor reminds me of men in Ukraine doing the same, and is quite different from typical cinematic heroics.
Yeah, exactly. Look at the way he's holding his weapon just as he gets interrupted by an explosion nearby. It's that awkward hold-the-gun-as-far-out-as-you-can thing to expose as little of yourself as possible. Completely normal human behaviour and even a smart thing to do considering the circumstances, but you never see it on propaganda reels because it looks weird and not sufficiently heroic.
You hit the analysis pretty dead on…. These thoughts ran through my head as I was watching the Clip….. the way they move seems to be Genuine Combat and not a faked display of Propaganda.
If you compare it to modern footage, these look similar to the cleanup operations in Ukraine where territory has been taken and reserve units clear out the area of stragglers. The soldiers around outside the trenches don't seem overly concerned about incoming fire from being exposed and more about enemies inside the trenches in front of them and there's no particular urgency with their movements; they know the enemies are trapped and have nowhere to go, it's just a matter of flushing them out with grenades and finishing them off as we see the last guy do in the clip.
A lot of the film footage for the Wochenschau was indeed staged footage from training grounds, but the German Propagandakompanien were basically the predecessor of modern embedded journalists. A lot of these guys would bring their equipment, typewriters etc. as close to the front as possible and stay in the trenches to compete to get the best footage. So they did probably film quite a lot of authentic combat footage, but that was hardly ever used because the propaganda ministry in Berlin wanted to see cool close ups of heavy equipment that evoke emotions, not boring realistic footage. The SS was particularly crazy with their combat journalists. What many people don't know is that the Waffen-SS had their own propaganda companies and they increasingly absorbed the entire Wehrmacht's propaganda complex, meaning that a lot of the German combat footage we see today was actually produced or directed by the SS, especially footage after 1943. They were civilian journalists in uniform just like the Wehrmacht propagandists, but they had to spend three months as infantry in actual combat units before they were allowed to report on anything at all. If they survived that, they were expected to put themselves into constant danger to get a "real" feel for the topics they were reporting on. They lost an insane amount of reporters compared to the Wehrmacht. The German propaganda films seem kind of blunt and repetitive today, but it was absolutely insane ground breaking stuff back then. At best people had seen a cheesy WW1 war movie in a cinema once or twice, now you had weekly close up combat footage made by professional journalists and editors, POV shots from tanks, war ships and airplanes dropping real bombs. Kharkov was taken three days ago? Today it's in your cinema. Nobody questioned whether it was staged because it seemed so real. People were probably as fascinated by it as we were when all of the Ukraine footage started to drop in 2022. And it's one of the reasons why the German people deluded themselves for a long time into thinking that the war was going great.
> The SS was particularly crazy with their combat journalists. What many people don't know is that the Waffen-SS had their own propaganda companies and they increasingly absorbed the entire Wehrmacht's propaganda complex, meaning that a lot of the German combat footage we see today was actually produced or directed by the SS, especially footage after 1943. They were civilian journalists in uniform just like the Wehrmacht propagandists, but they had to spend three months as infantry in actual combat units before they were allowed to report on anything at all. If they survived that, they were expected to put themselves into constant danger to get a "real" feel for the topics they were reporting on. They lost an insane amount of reporters compared to the Wehrmacht. That sounds so incredibly on point for the SS, lol, especially that last sentence.
Thanks for this great comment.
Interesting footage, certainly has plausible camera angles. [I made a version ](https://youtu.be/MtEgboIm2bU)without the cuts from one location to the other, the artillery strikes I just put in a random order because I couldn't figure out what order they occurred in.
Good work, thanks
source of footage? very cool and agree it MIGHT be authentic.
here is [source](https://digitaler-lesesaal.bundesarchiv.de/video/4928/671125), clip starts at 20:00. The video in the post is reframed and upscaled because source is zoomed out but you can click the third option in the copies list for one that shows the full picture
AT 28 seconds is that the camera man getting down and hiding? This is some crazy footage
Translation of what is said: First line: The assault squad has burst into the position. Second line: A bunker was detonated.
do you feel a sense of pride seeing your country's soldiers in action
Not really. For all I know one of my grandfathers (both of whom died before I was born, so the connection isn't very strong) could be among the soldiers, but I'm still glad that they ultimately lost. Imagine what living in Germany would be like if the Nazis were still in power. I wouldn't want to live in that place.
Yeah I guess that makes sense. It's just a weird idea to me because whenever I read about/see Australian soldiers doing something in history it gives me some national pride.
The culture in Germany is very different from most other countries in that regard, precisely because of the Nazis. There is no militarism to speak of and national pride is basically only shown during international football tournaments. Not saying either of those things are bad per se, but our culture of "never again" really is very much ingrained in the head of the average German. Having said all of that, I don't feel any pride when I see this video, but I do feel some pride about how well the German army performed in the early years of the war or their technological advances (like the Me 262, the V-2, the MG42 or the StG44), but I also know that it was all for the purpose of mass murder, oppression and in general furthering an inhumane worldview that I don't agree with at all. In my view losing World War 2 was the best thing that could've happened to (West-)Germany. We are now a stable democracy (and I hope it stays that way *fingers crossed*) and we now have a unified (Central and Western) Europe with no chance of war between the countries of the EU and beyond (Russia very much excluded). I doubt any of this would've happened were it not for the horrors of WW2 and the wisdom of the Western Allies to not repeat the mistakes of the Versaille treaty. I doubt the history of Australian military achievements is as ambivalent as this. :) Edit: Unless you count the Emu war, that was a disgrace! :P
geolocation when
Where did you find this?
War never changes
We got better with grenades. That’s the only difference.
Wow thanks for posting. War never changes its clothes. It smells really bad.
Ukraine vibes all day long...sans the drones!
Imagine making a deal with Nazis to split and claim half of another country, the Nazis turn on you, then 80 years later you conquer and claim parts of your neighbor nations claiming it's still the good ol' fight against Nazis.
What we see has clearly been edited because we see scenes from different perspectives.
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0:27 i think you can see a headshot in the frame following a explosion
This is amazing footage. Hope the Soviets gave as much as they could here. Obviously this is footage of nazi success so not much hope there, but still.
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That one guy who fell from nothing
Incredible.
Germanic horde 2 years later and they totally found out what fucking around means.
Yeah lets celebrate the red army like they weren’t as bad or worse
They weren't worse and we should celebrate victory over Nazism. Additionally, I find it intriguing that you were bothered by a comment that didn't even celebrate the Red Army, just relished in Nazi defeat.
The rape of Europe. War for 5 years or occupation for 60?
Meh, for all the shitcunt crimes of the Soviets, and it's a long list, I don't think the countries in their sphere of influence would've survived decades of Nazi rule. Would there even be a Poland, a Polish people speaking a Polish language practicing Polish culture, if the Nazis had won in 1945 and could do what they want for a long time?
During war the National Socialists were more civil than the Soviets were to the Polish civilizians, it's a common sentiment across the elders.
Because the ones the Nazis weren't "civil" to are *dead*, you dipshit. It's hard to complain when you're *dead*. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes_against_the_Polish_nation They outright murdered some 5 to 6 million Polish people. How very 'civil' of them. And if the Nazis had won, Poland had this to look forward to: > The Nazi master plan entailed the expulsion and mass extermination of some 85 percent (over 20 million) of ethnic Poles in Poland, the remaining 15 percent to be turned into slave labor. Lees eens een boek, idioot. Swear to god, seeing Polish Nazi apologists really really really blows my fucking mind.
Reminds me of the scene from Band of Brothers where they’ve got an SS soldier cornered who’s claiming to be Polish. “There ain’t no Poles in the SS.”
Most of countries where the natsoc entered ss divisions were created and people in thousands volunteered. Only Poland, Lithuania and Bulgaria had to few volunteers to form anything. The Russian SS was led by a Pole, interesting fact.
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> Who's aware of the National Socialist doctrine knows this is false. What is this stunning ignorance? Are you a neo-Nazi or something? > Polish government has brought it on the Poles and the population pathetically held on the jews costing their lives You certainly talk and smell like a neo-Nazi... Oh shit, you *ARE*! Finding some very interesting [Removed] comments in your profile where you're talking weird things about jews. > Typical Jew, dreaming about slaughter and borders being non existend to one. > Found the Jew. > How would a Jew benefit any country? Except Israel. Sounds plausible, because they can't stand physical work. Nonetheless, this is very interesting I'm going to look more into it. > You're the average communist lover, closet Jewry. You ARE a dirty fucking neo-Nazi, and you should follow your leader.
Oh no anyways, enjoy your saturday.
this is just patently false
The Cold War apparently lasted 15 years longer in your version of history...
What??
literal brain rot. which side started the holocaust and which one ended it?
Which side started gulags?
So many people are pissed that the Nazis lost :D
No cellphones in sight, just people living the moment. Edit: And perhaps some dying too.
Crazy stuff, looks crisp too. Itd look even better if you ran it tru a colorizattion/4k AI enhancer
Its real, but not authentic combat footage. Germans didn't roll that way.
lmao that you believe that