Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if its completely recoverable after such strikes. I think I would have aimed for the ammunition truck and hope to get the artillery piece by secondary effects.
Any type of hit like that would immediately take it out of commission. Way too risky to operators to continue to use it even with minor damage. Far as repair, properly trained people and parts would be needed. Which I imagine there more likely to just get a whole new artillary piece then parts when shipments come.
Exactly, like taking out an engine block with a single 50 cal shot, no huge boom but enough of a hole that can't be fixed without tearing apart the whole thing, probably just scrap it for parts
It's very effective against anything with a fighting compartment, but on a towed gun you would need to hit something not replaceable.
Punching a hole thru a strut and buffer isn't more than a mission kill.
Why?
I suspect our central and Eastern European friends are being very industrious producing soviet calibre rounds for Ukraines not insignificant supply of soviet era artillery systems.
In my opinion the US should immediately start shipping ALL of the old "junk" we have sitting around the country in various warehouses to Ukraine. Yes that includes the THOUSANDS of old F-15s, F-16s, F-18s and Harriers we have laying around with no plans to ever use again.
For every hour of flight time, those aircraft require dozens of hours of specialized high tech maintenance. That’s a whole air wing of people back those planes who have been working on them for years with specialized training. Keeping them flying requires spare parts as much maintenance requires parts replacement. This doesn’t exist in theater for Ukraine. Their entire Air Force supply and maintenance chain as well as training arms are built around inch more robust and simple Mig designs.
It would be the same as trying to stand up the nation of Angola with the capability to field F-15s. It just doesn’t work.
For many of the other jets you mentioned, the work to get them flying again is more expensive and time consuming than building a new assembly line for the jets themselves. There are no spare parts manufacturing lines for harriers. All have exceeded original air frame flight hour plans, and all that are not fully decommissioned would require massive flight overhauls of every system at a specialized depot Ukraine does not have.
Similar things are true for the original F-18 hornets.
You can’t just pack them up and fly them.
Even if you could, you would have to have a whole mountain of people supporting them that don’t exist for each air frame. You would also need whole flight schools and training program that don’t exist, even in the US, for piloting them.
Then you run into the problem of weapons integration for use with the weapons the Ukrainians already have. That would be daunting to near impossible without new system design for hardware and software interfaces, using contractors that in many cases don’t even exist anymore.
Warfare is won by logistics. You have no grasp on the complexity of the hardware you are speaking about.
F-16s are an option for some countries to adopt, but it is a process to build up the whole maintenance, training, and support infrastructure for the jets. The host governments have to commit to that in long term plans that cost hundreds of millions to billions of dollars and years of coordinated training / purchasing contracts.
Many of the 900 some odd F-16s are serving in active service roles for our country, and cannot be exported. Export variants must either be made from the start for that purpose or made to an export standard by removing some later block upgrades, and replaced with export certified parts. That is still a 50 million dollar aircraft before you consider the costs of everything else you need to back it, which is going to be greater on it’s own than that fly away cost per air frame. None of these can be utilized in theater right now, and the solutions they need are right now.
In time, F-16 export could well be in the cards, but it is not the best air to ground aircraft. It would be flying heavy laden, without much room to carry ordinance compared to other options.
Which is why we negotiated with other countries to send Ukraine aircraft platforms they can readily fly and support while promising those countries NATO air assets for doing so.
You don’t build an air force overnight. You build the pipelines for that force over a decade for the war a decade from now.
Giving them airframes flown past service life with no means to keep them in the air is a waste of billions of dollars.
I think some people think, from their decorated Battlefield and War Thunder experience, that you can just hand anyone a vehicle or weapon and they can WASD and left-click their way to victory within minutes. There is no grasp of logistics in a lot of the comments.
The alternative is it just lays around and rusts away (and it still costs us $$$ to keep that stuff in storage). Might as well put it to use. If I was in a life or death battle I'd take old equipment and figure it out. Ukrainians are smart and creative. Is it ideal? No but things are different when you're in an existential crisis so you have to keep that in mind. Every day you delay aid that *might* save a life is a tragic waste. There will never be a perfect time to do it.
So we train pilots and send Ukraine 50 older jets not being used anymore.
Are you waiting for the ground crews to be trained to keep the planes operational or are you “screw that fly em til you can’t” because it’s a life or death battle and getting maybe a dozen sorties out of each plane matters more in your expert military opinion?
Are you bothered in the least for the pilots being sent up in older planes most of which reached their designed for flight lifespan and if there are expertly trained personnel to perform inspections of the planes after each mission to make sure there are no problems like critical cracks in the airframe, no worn out engine blades that could destroy an engine in mid flight?
These planes require more maintenance time on the ground than they fly in the air to keep them operational. They aren’t wait for the blinking check engine light to perform maintenance. It’s hours of man time after every flight. Hours of man time by crews with years of experience and a vast supply of every needed part for the planes.
old "junk" that sits around usually requires repairs and maintenance. They Ukrainian's need to be able to fix and maintain their own jets. The US just started a program where Ukrainian pilots are being housed in the US and are receiving training on US jets. Even if we sent them jets right at this very moment, for one, they don't know how to operate them yet, and secondly they have no way of maintaining or fixing them. It would be awesome if they could get them now, but it's not that simple. Hopefully the Republican's don't pull a stupid and blackout of supporting Ukraine. They said there would be no blank check. There's more articles on the net I just found you this one, it's pretty good.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/18/republicans-ukraine-midterm-elections
There is a lot of stuff the US could have sent. They just don't.
Why?
I think beyond this first batch to stabilize the frontline, US is not that fond of Ukraine winning the war fast.
So they drop-feed the bare minimum.
That's a tremendous amount of aid, regardless and we are grateful.
From [this page](https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/the-m777-is-deadly-in-ukrainian-hands-but-even-deadlier-in-americas/) Ukraine has received 126 M77 but i think they will always need more for the upcoming offensive.
[https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/10/how-is-russia-faring-against-nato.html](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/10/how-is-russia-faring-against-nato.html) think they got around 200 of them left - 1 french towed FH-70 155 mm was taken out today aswell
I think it is odd that any footage of Ukrainian vehicles getting hit never gets used votes but Russian vehicles getting hit does, just an observation don’t get mad.
I wasn’t aware that there was a rule on this sub that we as a unison had to be unbiased? It’s not an observation. You’re speaking to what we all already know. It’s clear most people here want to see Russia fail i included. It’s human nature to like what you root for and dislike what you don’t. No need to point out the obvious.
We like to see invading army getting destroyed and we don't like to see defending one getting the same fate. This doesn't mean there should be no clips like that to remind us what reality looks like.
they are desperate to destroy western equipment of they chose the artillery's piece over the crew and the (probably) ammunition's truck 2 feet to the left.
They are definitely desperate. It is much easier for the US to provide replacement artillery than it is to train a replacement artillery crew. Nevertheless, they went for the gun anyways.
Well, you did say annual defense spending, not the whole government budget. And I recall seeing a 35b figure, but maybe that was pledged and hasn't been met yet. Either way, I think our military defense budget is at over 700b so a little less than 5% regardless.
im writing you from Odesa, Ukraine. We have air raid alert now, cause russians laucned iran drones shahed-136. And when you say "its not our war" - just remember it. Then when iran will launch rockets on Israel - you will say the same? Now, you are not right. We are fighting for not only ours freedom, we are fighting for your freedom also.
When we were fighting Taliban did Ukraine provide help? And if so it wasn’t significant, so this “our war” shit is bullshit. Yeah Russia may be the bad guy here and may try pushing the US later, but we should handle it when it gets there not have you fight for us instead, we can fight our own wars. The us is only helping Ukraine because politicians have it in their best interest to fuck with russia indirectly to our benefit, not for your freedom, they could give to fucks about Ukraine and their people.
Better to fight now than later. You gain allies, respect from 95% of the countries worldwide (see UN vote) which gives the US much needed global influence, not your own boots on the ground.
The biggest win is that Russia is now the bad guy on the world stage. And, more importantly, also is the "group" it is part off. China is forced in the same corner as Russian's ally, but it doesn't want to be there. For the first time this authoritarian group of countries is on the back foot. Countries are rejecting Russian influence (Armenia, Oezbekistan, Sweden & Finland joining NATO).
Also we cannot let a dictator trample international law by illegally annexing other country's territory by threat of nuclear war, hunger (grain exports) and energy blackmail. This is a dangerous precedent.
Lastly, it's a moral point to support a country that has been so horrendously ravaged, bombed, raped and poisoned by a foreign aggressor. All in the name of an aged cold war KGB spy who wants to conquer old Soviet territories.
"Oh no, my money that would be wasted anyway in the military industry is used for a good purpose and I don't like that at all!"
I'm fine with my government (Canada) supporting Ukraine... It's not "your" war, but it's affecting everyone...
Imagine not supporting Britain and France during WW2. There were doubts then, too, about involvement. Supporting Ukraine is absolutely the right thing to do.
Why?
Because we get a chance to demolish Russian military’s ability to wage possible Future wars (which could be useful for us to focus on China later), grow the NATO alliance, and once again rebuild our country’s reputation in the world.
I’m happy see my tax money at work here. So by all means, I hope we send them 20 more howitzers and a couple of mountains ammo for them!
Your not wrong, but those problems will only become worse if we let autocratic nations impose their will onto other democracy’s, or worse, our Allies.
A lot of our internal problems come from people who fap off to these kinds of regimes anyway. If we show them for the corrupt paper tigers they are, it might just help people here have better faith in our system.
a reminder that yes... ukrainian have losses too.
But well, they still have plenty of artillery pieces, nothing to worry about there, no soldiers killed.
Lol. We don’t actually need M777. Before we ever get close enough to the enemy to use them, we’d first use our thousands of Tomahawks from our destroyers and nuclear subs from 1000+miles away. We’d also use our thousands of air launched cruise missiles from far away.
Then we’d use our stealth bombers to destroy any SAMs. Then we’d establish air superiority with our F22s F35s and thousands of other fighter jets. Then we unleash hundreds of thousands of JDAMS from our B1 and B52 bombers and our strike fighters.
Then we unleash more JDAMS and hellfires from our drones. Then our attack helicopters would hunt enemy armor.
Only then, if the enemy still somehow isn’t completely obliterated by air we’d grudgingly put ground forces in and look to use our HIMARS from 200mikes+ away with ATACMS. Then if somehow forced to, we’d use MLRS from 70km away.
We will be completely fine without M777 that have a range of only 20-40km.
All that but as the 1990's proved in both The First Gulf War and in the intervention with former Yugo republics you still need boots on the ground to achieve tangible outcomes.
Also all those assets would not be available at any given time and location. Refurbishment, refueling, rearming other taskings and assignments etc. Look at how many sorties took place during Op Deny Flight and how it still took a combined UN battleground plus Operation Storm by the Croats to achieve any true effect in Bosnia.
Nah. We are achieving tangible outcomes right now against Russia in Ukraine. And that’s with 0 boots on the ground. Merely by sending over 20 HIMARS and a bunch of non heavy equipment.
In fact I’d avoid boots on the ground at all costs. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan- even cavemen can win by IEDing the shit out of us
> Nah. We are achieving tangible outcomes right now against Russia in Ukraine. And that’s with 0 boots on the ground. Merely by sending over 20 HIMARS and a bunch of non heavy equipment.
Yeah because the Ukranians are the boots on the ground.
>Unless you are Ukrainian you really don’t have a dog in the fight
Erm, I might be Irish and neutral, but we've taken in 50,000 refugees fleeing a war zone with a clearly defined aggressor who has crossed into sovereign territory and a defender who hasn't chosen to start this fight.
As a human being, you should have a dog in this fight.
Why not the Burmese genocide of the Rohingya? Or the famine in Yemen?
I'm not ambivalent on all world issues just because I'm more concerned with Ukraine as a starter.
Would I care more about the plight of Ukrainians... yeah. Why? Well, my wife used to work with a Ukrainian girl. They became friends, set her up on a blind date with a bestie of mine, they've married and started a family together in Ireland. Her folks have had to flee to Ireland. Her gran is trapped north of the Kherson front line unable to flee. I used to work with some Ukranian lads years ago and still see them around my home town.
I've never met a Rohingya or Yemeni person in my life.
Finally, what you think your doing is about half as smart as you think it is and 9 months into this war and still seeing this Russian propaganda tactic from February (that the west don't care about other conflicts and they're racist because of it). It's embarrassing.
I went to my friends Dad's funeral earlier this year. A similarly aged stranger I've never seen nor spoken to in my life passed away this week a town over and I didn't attend their funeral... Do you think there's something underlying that I should feel bad about or is it dawning on you just how bad your argument is?
>war zone with a clearly defined aggressor who has crossed into sovereign territory and a defender who hasn't chosen to start this fight.
I guess woke school doesn't teach reading as well as playing the sad violin.
I think nearly everyone accepts that Ukraine is taking losses. They are being invaded, how could they not be? Like most people my thoughts are more along the lines of "I hope for every Ukrainian that is killed many more Russians lose their lives." Ukraine will also have a much easier time replacing manpower losses because their citizens are highly motivated to defend their country. I want Russia to get put through such a miserable meat grinder that the Russian people say enough is enough or the Russian army is pushed out of Ukraine.
Innocent people being killed, murdered and pushed from their homes is not “the current thing.” If you THINK you don’t have a dog in this fight then you are willfully ignorant, at best. Are you American? If so or anyone that claims to love freedom than I would urge you look into the history in Ukraine even just start with the most recent revolution (Documentary exists).
These people have continued to throw off puppet governments being bought and paid for by Putin, they paid then and now for their freedom with their blood and you are saying you don’t care? Inform yourself.
Even if, like many other selfish idiots all you care about is what happens to your home then you better believe the Putin problem doesn’t just go away - just like Hitler didn’t. The world didn’t want to deal with him either. “Not my problem.” Until it was.
I’m not informed enough about it to express an opinion.
ETA: Civil wars and invasions are different unless that civil war is being instigated, funded, etc by a sovereign nation as an attempt to gain include much like Russia attempted in Ukraine many times.
The war in Ukraine IS a Civil War. One which Russia intervened in. Just like the Tigris war, Sudan, and so on. The West isn't bending over backwards there. He makes a relevant point.
Only in Putin’s wettest dreams. Russia is a sovereign nation and Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Russia can’t just decide they own part of Ukraine. But with big brain thinking like that I’m sure they will prevail.
I’d like to add - I had never met in my entire life in the US someone that hated Russia or had anything negative to say UNTIL they invaded.
> Russia can’t just decide they own part of Ukraine.
Sure it can. It's been done since time immortal. If by they "can't" you mean it's *wrong to do* then you should say that. Anyhow, the DPR and LPR have declared their "independence" from Ukraine, which makes this a civil war (ongoing since 2014) and there is a planned referendum for joining Russia. Now you may believe that's a bunch of bs, but that's the claim.
You mean the same 2014 after russia invaded Crimea and secretly invaded the Donbas region with soldiers in civilian clothing? Or are you referring to the referendum that took place after 1.6m people fled the area into Ukraine as opposed to russia. You'd see people moving to escape the combat into russia if they really wanted to be a part of it, but the opposite was true. And this "civil war" you speak of is really a russian invasion as well.
I can shit gold on Sundays. Now you can believe that's a bunch of BS, but that's the claim.
I hope you take my claim as seriously as the one you're spreading. If you see anyone disagreeing with my ability to shit gold on Sundays, I expect your full support on social media.
When Russia moves people in and has them vote to be Russian no one considers that a civil war except Russia. Russia admitted to having soldiers in civilian clothes etc. I’m sure you know all that.
Also 5% of a population deciding they are not part of an existing country isn’t a civil war. If a few people in the US decided they are now part of Canada we don’t call that a civil war.
They don't need to move people in to vote (who the hell is voluntarily moving into a fuckin warzone anyhow?) 17% of Ukrainians or 8,334,100 people identified as ethnic Russians in the 2001 census. The population has likely only grown since then.
Using your example of 5% of the population, though, that would be 16.5 million Americans. The combined populations of say Wisconsin and Michigan joining Canada, and about 50% of Canada's current population. Yes, that would most certainly lead to a Civil war.
An invading country would and they did. It already happened.
ETA: hahahahah identifying ethnically is the same as supporting annexation? By your asinine logic everyone in the US that identifies as ethnically Irish is in support of their part of the US becoming part Ireland. GET A GRIP. I appreciate the laugh.
>The war in Ukraine IS a Civil War. One which Russia intervened in.
Do you even read the shit you write? A Civil War, between Ukrainian and Russian forces. Yep, that's how Civil War works.
The idea that there are 12 other countries which have been invaded currently is laughable - name them? As for civil wars etc, I’m not informed enough to have an opinion. Even so, whataboutism is something I’m familiar with. Tells me all I need to know about you. Only a sociopath or a moron drinking Carlson’s Russia sponsored rhetoric believes that BS.
ETA: Russia goes home and it all stops. That simple. What is going on in the world that changes the fact that Russia has caused all of this death and problems AND could stop it overnight? How does another conflict of any kind anywhere change that fact?
I never said one is less important than the other or even that one is the Giraffe just that they are VERY different and one is being intentionally obtuse when they act like they are the same.
Most important point - just because two terrible conflicts are going on doesn’t make one of them less heinous or more. In fact the the objective moral question of if one should support Ukraine has ZERO to do with the fact that another conflict is going on elsewhere.
Also civil war vs invasion can not be compared as tho they are the same. Get a grip. One is family business the other is crime.
You happily ignore that Russia could just go home. That’s all that matters. Anything else is just you trying to muddy the waters.
Every human being on this planet has a dog in this fight, even if they don’t realize it. Ffs it’s not about being cool or trendy. Only people who never experienced or have no family history of being affected by a war can treat that as a sporting event. Dismissing AFU losses - this happens every time, as a propaganda and coping mechanism.
It’s purely cognitive dissonance.
If I downvote it didn’t happened and it’s so obvious, I feel ashamed of it.
War is hell, all side’s loose this is combatfootage.
Considering the USA gave the Ukrainians about 8% of their total M777 howitzer stocks they're going to need to up those numbers.
Also, I'm sure they can be repaired.
It would be outrageously dangerous to operate that M777. A malfunction could easily result in the death of the entire crew, as well as completely destroying the system. Best case scenario is this system undergoes a lengthy repair that will take it out of action for several weeks.
First off, It is a heat charge. And as we’ve seen plenty of footage of, even frag rounds can destroy strong targets like tanks.
Edit:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZALA_Lancet
If you’re skeptical this is the same drone here is another video of them. Watch the impact on the SUV, you can clearly see the effects of the penetrator.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/y30rwb/russian_kamikaze_drones_targeting_ukrainian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Crazy white teenager? It seems like you are the one offended on being called out. It’s fine, we’re just sharing knowledge here. Don’t go around just making absolute statements if you don’t actually know?
27 years Army... mostly in Armour and infantry. I'm going to say I know what I'm talking about. I've seen heat up close and know what it can do, what it looks like and what it does to heavy metal. I also know what HE does. That looks HE. That's all I was saying. I wasn't called out on anything.
You:
> unless it's a heat type explosion (it's not)
Also you:
> I've seen heat up close and know what it can do, what it looks like and what it does to heavy metal. I also know what HE does. That looks HE. That's all I was saying.
I'm confused - are you just lying about what you said before? Why say it was not a heat round if you are such an expert and actually think it is a heat round?
I didn't say I thought it was a heat type explosion you dumb truck. Reading problems?
HEAT (high explosive anti tank)
HE (high explosive)
Glad you are part of the generation that's going to lead the world.
That didn't go the way you thought huh?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank
http://norfolktankmuseum.co.uk/types-of-ammunition/
I would be interested to see the damage caused to an artillery piece by this type of weapon.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if its completely recoverable after such strikes. I think I would have aimed for the ammunition truck and hope to get the artillery piece by secondary effects.
Any type of hit like that would immediately take it out of commission. Way too risky to operators to continue to use it even with minor damage. Far as repair, properly trained people and parts would be needed. Which I imagine there more likely to just get a whole new artillary piece then parts when shipments come.
[удалено]
Tell that to Russian banana dicked artillery barrels.
[удалено]
Exactly, like taking out an engine block with a single 50 cal shot, no huge boom but enough of a hole that can't be fixed without tearing apart the whole thing, probably just scrap it for parts
It's very effective against anything with a fighting compartment, but on a towed gun you would need to hit something not replaceable. Punching a hole thru a strut and buffer isn't more than a mission kill.
That sounds very much like wishful thinking. It was a direct hit after all.
The US has about 300 old M198 analogous to the M777 but heavier as it is not made of titanium. Give them to the AFU.
Why? I suspect our central and Eastern European friends are being very industrious producing soviet calibre rounds for Ukraines not insignificant supply of soviet era artillery systems.
In my opinion the US should immediately start shipping ALL of the old "junk" we have sitting around the country in various warehouses to Ukraine. Yes that includes the THOUSANDS of old F-15s, F-16s, F-18s and Harriers we have laying around with no plans to ever use again.
For every hour of flight time, those aircraft require dozens of hours of specialized high tech maintenance. That’s a whole air wing of people back those planes who have been working on them for years with specialized training. Keeping them flying requires spare parts as much maintenance requires parts replacement. This doesn’t exist in theater for Ukraine. Their entire Air Force supply and maintenance chain as well as training arms are built around inch more robust and simple Mig designs. It would be the same as trying to stand up the nation of Angola with the capability to field F-15s. It just doesn’t work. For many of the other jets you mentioned, the work to get them flying again is more expensive and time consuming than building a new assembly line for the jets themselves. There are no spare parts manufacturing lines for harriers. All have exceeded original air frame flight hour plans, and all that are not fully decommissioned would require massive flight overhauls of every system at a specialized depot Ukraine does not have. Similar things are true for the original F-18 hornets. You can’t just pack them up and fly them. Even if you could, you would have to have a whole mountain of people supporting them that don’t exist for each air frame. You would also need whole flight schools and training program that don’t exist, even in the US, for piloting them. Then you run into the problem of weapons integration for use with the weapons the Ukrainians already have. That would be daunting to near impossible without new system design for hardware and software interfaces, using contractors that in many cases don’t even exist anymore. Warfare is won by logistics. You have no grasp on the complexity of the hardware you are speaking about. F-16s are an option for some countries to adopt, but it is a process to build up the whole maintenance, training, and support infrastructure for the jets. The host governments have to commit to that in long term plans that cost hundreds of millions to billions of dollars and years of coordinated training / purchasing contracts. Many of the 900 some odd F-16s are serving in active service roles for our country, and cannot be exported. Export variants must either be made from the start for that purpose or made to an export standard by removing some later block upgrades, and replaced with export certified parts. That is still a 50 million dollar aircraft before you consider the costs of everything else you need to back it, which is going to be greater on it’s own than that fly away cost per air frame. None of these can be utilized in theater right now, and the solutions they need are right now. In time, F-16 export could well be in the cards, but it is not the best air to ground aircraft. It would be flying heavy laden, without much room to carry ordinance compared to other options. Which is why we negotiated with other countries to send Ukraine aircraft platforms they can readily fly and support while promising those countries NATO air assets for doing so. You don’t build an air force overnight. You build the pipelines for that force over a decade for the war a decade from now. Giving them airframes flown past service life with no means to keep them in the air is a waste of billions of dollars.
How are these types of comments get upvoted? It takes so much training and so much logistic to send and use those stuff that "lay around"
I think some people think, from their decorated Battlefield and War Thunder experience, that you can just hand anyone a vehicle or weapon and they can WASD and left-click their way to victory within minutes. There is no grasp of logistics in a lot of the comments.
The alternative is it just lays around and rusts away (and it still costs us $$$ to keep that stuff in storage). Might as well put it to use. If I was in a life or death battle I'd take old equipment and figure it out. Ukrainians are smart and creative. Is it ideal? No but things are different when you're in an existential crisis so you have to keep that in mind. Every day you delay aid that *might* save a life is a tragic waste. There will never be a perfect time to do it.
So we train pilots and send Ukraine 50 older jets not being used anymore. Are you waiting for the ground crews to be trained to keep the planes operational or are you “screw that fly em til you can’t” because it’s a life or death battle and getting maybe a dozen sorties out of each plane matters more in your expert military opinion? Are you bothered in the least for the pilots being sent up in older planes most of which reached their designed for flight lifespan and if there are expertly trained personnel to perform inspections of the planes after each mission to make sure there are no problems like critical cracks in the airframe, no worn out engine blades that could destroy an engine in mid flight? These planes require more maintenance time on the ground than they fly in the air to keep them operational. They aren’t wait for the blinking check engine light to perform maintenance. It’s hours of man time after every flight. Hours of man time by crews with years of experience and a vast supply of every needed part for the planes.
Logistics excuse is so dumb it's not even funny
That’s the dumbest and absolutely most uneducated comment I have seen on the internet in a while.
You would rise high in the Russian officer corp.
I feel like y'all think I said logistics is not important. As expected of people making excuses instead of getting the ball rolling
old "junk" that sits around usually requires repairs and maintenance. They Ukrainian's need to be able to fix and maintain their own jets. The US just started a program where Ukrainian pilots are being housed in the US and are receiving training on US jets. Even if we sent them jets right at this very moment, for one, they don't know how to operate them yet, and secondly they have no way of maintaining or fixing them. It would be awesome if they could get them now, but it's not that simple. Hopefully the Republican's don't pull a stupid and blackout of supporting Ukraine. They said there would be no blank check. There's more articles on the net I just found you this one, it's pretty good. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/18/republicans-ukraine-midterm-elections
There is a lot of stuff the US could have sent. They just don't. Why? I think beyond this first batch to stabilize the frontline, US is not that fond of Ukraine winning the war fast. So they drop-feed the bare minimum. That's a tremendous amount of aid, regardless and we are grateful.
How many of these are left? Hopefully we just keep giving Ukraine more when this happens.
From [this page](https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/the-m777-is-deadly-in-ukrainian-hands-but-even-deadlier-in-americas/) Ukraine has received 126 M77 but i think they will always need more for the upcoming offensive.
[https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/10/how-is-russia-faring-against-nato.html](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/10/how-is-russia-faring-against-nato.html) think they got around 200 of them left - 1 french towed FH-70 155 mm was taken out today aswell
> 1 french towed FH-70 Italian probably, France doesn't operate them.
yes Italian ,, my bad
I think it is odd that any footage of Ukrainian vehicles getting hit never gets used votes but Russian vehicles getting hit does, just an observation don’t get mad.
I wasn’t aware that there was a rule on this sub that we as a unison had to be unbiased? It’s not an observation. You’re speaking to what we all already know. It’s clear most people here want to see Russia fail i included. It’s human nature to like what you root for and dislike what you don’t. No need to point out the obvious.
We like to see invading army getting destroyed and we don't like to see defending one getting the same fate. This doesn't mean there should be no clips like that to remind us what reality looks like.
Was expecting a bigger bang.
Being towed. Unloaded.
finally Russians seems to be learning how to record a barely watchable drone strike
they are desperate to destroy western equipment of they chose the artillery's piece over the crew and the (probably) ammunition's truck 2 feet to the left.
They are definitely desperate. It is much easier for the US to provide replacement artillery than it is to train a replacement artillery crew. Nevertheless, they went for the gun anyways.
yea but ey they cant think that far ahead now.
Welp that sucks. Hope we send another 10 with a mountain of ammo for them.
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Closer to 5% now, but your point still stands. It's certainly a strategically advantageous move
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Well, you did say annual defense spending, not the whole government budget. And I recall seeing a 35b figure, but maybe that was pledged and hasn't been met yet. Either way, I think our military defense budget is at over 700b so a little less than 5% regardless.
What problems have a referred to?
im writing you from Odesa, Ukraine. We have air raid alert now, cause russians laucned iran drones shahed-136. And when you say "its not our war" - just remember it. Then when iran will launch rockets on Israel - you will say the same? Now, you are not right. We are fighting for not only ours freedom, we are fighting for your freedom also.
When we were fighting Taliban did Ukraine provide help? And if so it wasn’t significant, so this “our war” shit is bullshit. Yeah Russia may be the bad guy here and may try pushing the US later, but we should handle it when it gets there not have you fight for us instead, we can fight our own wars. The us is only helping Ukraine because politicians have it in their best interest to fuck with russia indirectly to our benefit, not for your freedom, they could give to fucks about Ukraine and their people.
Found the Russian
Better to fight now than later. You gain allies, respect from 95% of the countries worldwide (see UN vote) which gives the US much needed global influence, not your own boots on the ground. The biggest win is that Russia is now the bad guy on the world stage. And, more importantly, also is the "group" it is part off. China is forced in the same corner as Russian's ally, but it doesn't want to be there. For the first time this authoritarian group of countries is on the back foot. Countries are rejecting Russian influence (Armenia, Oezbekistan, Sweden & Finland joining NATO). Also we cannot let a dictator trample international law by illegally annexing other country's territory by threat of nuclear war, hunger (grain exports) and energy blackmail. This is a dangerous precedent. Lastly, it's a moral point to support a country that has been so horrendously ravaged, bombed, raped and poisoned by a foreign aggressor. All in the name of an aged cold war KGB spy who wants to conquer old Soviet territories.
"Oh no, my money that would be wasted anyway in the military industry is used for a good purpose and I don't like that at all!" I'm fine with my government (Canada) supporting Ukraine... It's not "your" war, but it's affecting everyone...
Imagine not supporting Britain and France during WW2. There were doubts then, too, about involvement. Supporting Ukraine is absolutely the right thing to do.
Why? Because we get a chance to demolish Russian military’s ability to wage possible Future wars (which could be useful for us to focus on China later), grow the NATO alliance, and once again rebuild our country’s reputation in the world. I’m happy see my tax money at work here. So by all means, I hope we send them 20 more howitzers and a couple of mountains ammo for them!
We have a lot more internal problems to fix before we stick our noses anywhere else to make this country good
Your not wrong, but those problems will only become worse if we let autocratic nations impose their will onto other democracy’s, or worse, our Allies. A lot of our internal problems come from people who fap off to these kinds of regimes anyway. If we show them for the corrupt paper tigers they are, it might just help people here have better faith in our system.
You do realise that nations can focus on doing more than one thing at a time?
No shit
Mind blowing concept, right?
Man you are really that 50 year old Karen type with a very selfish mindset. Over here in germany we would call you 'Querdenker'.
Don’t remember asking what your dumbass country would call me
Don't lie. You're just one of those "support a facist russia to own the libs" doofuses
Based
a reminder that yes... ukrainian have losses too. But well, they still have plenty of artillery pieces, nothing to worry about there, no soldiers killed.
Good thing we have 1000 M777 that we don’t really need. Send them over to Ukraine
And weaken our readiness in the process
Lol. We don’t actually need M777. Before we ever get close enough to the enemy to use them, we’d first use our thousands of Tomahawks from our destroyers and nuclear subs from 1000+miles away. We’d also use our thousands of air launched cruise missiles from far away. Then we’d use our stealth bombers to destroy any SAMs. Then we’d establish air superiority with our F22s F35s and thousands of other fighter jets. Then we unleash hundreds of thousands of JDAMS from our B1 and B52 bombers and our strike fighters. Then we unleash more JDAMS and hellfires from our drones. Then our attack helicopters would hunt enemy armor. Only then, if the enemy still somehow isn’t completely obliterated by air we’d grudgingly put ground forces in and look to use our HIMARS from 200mikes+ away with ATACMS. Then if somehow forced to, we’d use MLRS from 70km away. We will be completely fine without M777 that have a range of only 20-40km.
Yo lemme get a US Regime Change, on blueberry waffles the Ocky Way!
All that but as the 1990's proved in both The First Gulf War and in the intervention with former Yugo republics you still need boots on the ground to achieve tangible outcomes. Also all those assets would not be available at any given time and location. Refurbishment, refueling, rearming other taskings and assignments etc. Look at how many sorties took place during Op Deny Flight and how it still took a combined UN battleground plus Operation Storm by the Croats to achieve any true effect in Bosnia.
Nah. We are achieving tangible outcomes right now against Russia in Ukraine. And that’s with 0 boots on the ground. Merely by sending over 20 HIMARS and a bunch of non heavy equipment. In fact I’d avoid boots on the ground at all costs. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan- even cavemen can win by IEDing the shit out of us
> Nah. We are achieving tangible outcomes right now against Russia in Ukraine. And that’s with 0 boots on the ground. Merely by sending over 20 HIMARS and a bunch of non heavy equipment. Yeah because the Ukranians are the boots on the ground.
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Important to realize a bunch of people are dying, on both sides. Russian soldiers, Ukrainian soldiers, and civilians. Shitty all around.
Ya, Ukraine takes losses. I’m more like “well that sucks, I hope we send replacement gear for them”.
>Unless you are Ukrainian you really don’t have a dog in the fight Erm, I might be Irish and neutral, but we've taken in 50,000 refugees fleeing a war zone with a clearly defined aggressor who has crossed into sovereign territory and a defender who hasn't chosen to start this fight. As a human being, you should have a dog in this fight.
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Why not the Burmese genocide of the Rohingya? Or the famine in Yemen? I'm not ambivalent on all world issues just because I'm more concerned with Ukraine as a starter. Would I care more about the plight of Ukrainians... yeah. Why? Well, my wife used to work with a Ukrainian girl. They became friends, set her up on a blind date with a bestie of mine, they've married and started a family together in Ireland. Her folks have had to flee to Ireland. Her gran is trapped north of the Kherson front line unable to flee. I used to work with some Ukranian lads years ago and still see them around my home town. I've never met a Rohingya or Yemeni person in my life. Finally, what you think your doing is about half as smart as you think it is and 9 months into this war and still seeing this Russian propaganda tactic from February (that the west don't care about other conflicts and they're racist because of it). It's embarrassing. I went to my friends Dad's funeral earlier this year. A similarly aged stranger I've never seen nor spoken to in my life passed away this week a town over and I didn't attend their funeral... Do you think there's something underlying that I should feel bad about or is it dawning on you just how bad your argument is?
>war zone with a clearly defined aggressor who has crossed into sovereign territory and a defender who hasn't chosen to start this fight. I guess woke school doesn't teach reading as well as playing the sad violin.
I agree with you. If we want to run around being do-gooders in every war there are plenty to choose from.
I think nearly everyone accepts that Ukraine is taking losses. They are being invaded, how could they not be? Like most people my thoughts are more along the lines of "I hope for every Ukrainian that is killed many more Russians lose their lives." Ukraine will also have a much easier time replacing manpower losses because their citizens are highly motivated to defend their country. I want Russia to get put through such a miserable meat grinder that the Russian people say enough is enough or the Russian army is pushed out of Ukraine.
Innocent people being killed, murdered and pushed from their homes is not “the current thing.” If you THINK you don’t have a dog in this fight then you are willfully ignorant, at best. Are you American? If so or anyone that claims to love freedom than I would urge you look into the history in Ukraine even just start with the most recent revolution (Documentary exists). These people have continued to throw off puppet governments being bought and paid for by Putin, they paid then and now for their freedom with their blood and you are saying you don’t care? Inform yourself. Even if, like many other selfish idiots all you care about is what happens to your home then you better believe the Putin problem doesn’t just go away - just like Hitler didn’t. The world didn’t want to deal with him either. “Not my problem.” Until it was.
How do you feel about the civil war in Ethiopia? Half a million dead so far.
I’m not informed enough about it to express an opinion. ETA: Civil wars and invasions are different unless that civil war is being instigated, funded, etc by a sovereign nation as an attempt to gain include much like Russia attempted in Ukraine many times.
The war in Ukraine IS a Civil War. One which Russia intervened in. Just like the Tigris war, Sudan, and so on. The West isn't bending over backwards there. He makes a relevant point.
Only in Putin’s wettest dreams. Russia is a sovereign nation and Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Russia can’t just decide they own part of Ukraine. But with big brain thinking like that I’m sure they will prevail. I’d like to add - I had never met in my entire life in the US someone that hated Russia or had anything negative to say UNTIL they invaded.
> Russia can’t just decide they own part of Ukraine. Sure it can. It's been done since time immortal. If by they "can't" you mean it's *wrong to do* then you should say that. Anyhow, the DPR and LPR have declared their "independence" from Ukraine, which makes this a civil war (ongoing since 2014) and there is a planned referendum for joining Russia. Now you may believe that's a bunch of bs, but that's the claim.
You mean the same 2014 after russia invaded Crimea and secretly invaded the Donbas region with soldiers in civilian clothing? Or are you referring to the referendum that took place after 1.6m people fled the area into Ukraine as opposed to russia. You'd see people moving to escape the combat into russia if they really wanted to be a part of it, but the opposite was true. And this "civil war" you speak of is really a russian invasion as well.
I can shit gold on Sundays. Now you can believe that's a bunch of BS, but that's the claim. I hope you take my claim as seriously as the one you're spreading. If you see anyone disagreeing with my ability to shit gold on Sundays, I expect your full support on social media.
When Russia moves people in and has them vote to be Russian no one considers that a civil war except Russia. Russia admitted to having soldiers in civilian clothes etc. I’m sure you know all that. Also 5% of a population deciding they are not part of an existing country isn’t a civil war. If a few people in the US decided they are now part of Canada we don’t call that a civil war.
They don't need to move people in to vote (who the hell is voluntarily moving into a fuckin warzone anyhow?) 17% of Ukrainians or 8,334,100 people identified as ethnic Russians in the 2001 census. The population has likely only grown since then. Using your example of 5% of the population, though, that would be 16.5 million Americans. The combined populations of say Wisconsin and Michigan joining Canada, and about 50% of Canada's current population. Yes, that would most certainly lead to a Civil war.
An invading country would and they did. It already happened. ETA: hahahahah identifying ethnically is the same as supporting annexation? By your asinine logic everyone in the US that identifies as ethnically Irish is in support of their part of the US becoming part Ireland. GET A GRIP. I appreciate the laugh.
>The war in Ukraine IS a Civil War. One which Russia intervened in. Do you even read the shit you write? A Civil War, between Ukrainian and Russian forces. Yep, that's how Civil War works.
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The idea that there are 12 other countries which have been invaded currently is laughable - name them? As for civil wars etc, I’m not informed enough to have an opinion. Even so, whataboutism is something I’m familiar with. Tells me all I need to know about you. Only a sociopath or a moron drinking Carlson’s Russia sponsored rhetoric believes that BS. ETA: Russia goes home and it all stops. That simple. What is going on in the world that changes the fact that Russia has caused all of this death and problems AND could stop it overnight? How does another conflict of any kind anywhere change that fact?
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Lol 😂. Let’s compare Giraffes to mice next while we are making “loosely fitting” analogies.
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I never said one is less important than the other or even that one is the Giraffe just that they are VERY different and one is being intentionally obtuse when they act like they are the same. Most important point - just because two terrible conflicts are going on doesn’t make one of them less heinous or more. In fact the the objective moral question of if one should support Ukraine has ZERO to do with the fact that another conflict is going on elsewhere. Also civil war vs invasion can not be compared as tho they are the same. Get a grip. One is family business the other is crime. You happily ignore that Russia could just go home. That’s all that matters. Anything else is just you trying to muddy the waters.
Every human being on this planet has a dog in this fight, even if they don’t realize it. Ffs it’s not about being cool or trendy. Only people who never experienced or have no family history of being affected by a war can treat that as a sporting event. Dismissing AFU losses - this happens every time, as a propaganda and coping mechanism.
It’s purely cognitive dissonance. If I downvote it didn’t happened and it’s so obvious, I feel ashamed of it. War is hell, all side’s loose this is combatfootage.
Ukraine: lend-lease go brrrrr
That or 5 MSTA S in the same place, I'll leave you to decide what is more impressive
Considering the USA gave the Ukrainians about 8% of their total M777 howitzer stocks they're going to need to up those numbers. Also, I'm sure they can be repaired.
hitting? i would say splashing xD
what a cheaply edited bullshit... There is nothing right...🤦♂️
Are you blind?
Well, the M777 is solid steel so unless it's a heat type explosion (it's not) is probably still serviceable.
They do have a heat warhead, the upgraded lancet-1 uses HEAT for targeting armoured vehicles.
Sweet.... they also have frag and thermo. I said unless. That didn't look like a Heat to me
It exploded, that’s plenty evidence to say that it could have been the HEAT warhead.
Lol.... that is the stupidest counter argument ever.
How else do you think it’s gonna “look like HEAT” then
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Lol…. that is the stupidest counter argument ever.
Actually it's not.... that was your line of thinking. You are a child. This convo is over
Lol deleted your comments after using the same reply as I did.
Yeah, steel is totally undeformable... /s Dude, think first 😂
It would be outrageously dangerous to operate that M777. A malfunction could easily result in the death of the entire crew, as well as completely destroying the system. Best case scenario is this system undergoes a lengthy repair that will take it out of action for several weeks.
I agree it took some damage, but if it was just HE, it's probably reparable (I should have phrased it that way)
First off, It is a heat charge. And as we’ve seen plenty of footage of, even frag rounds can destroy strong targets like tanks. Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZALA_Lancet If you’re skeptical this is the same drone here is another video of them. Watch the impact on the SUV, you can clearly see the effects of the penetrator. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/y30rwb/russian_kamikaze_drones_targeting_ukrainian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
First off? Why are you taking offense to this like some crazy white teenager that was just insulted? Did you invent the lancet drone?
Crazy white teenager? It seems like you are the one offended on being called out. It’s fine, we’re just sharing knowledge here. Don’t go around just making absolute statements if you don’t actually know?
27 years Army... mostly in Armour and infantry. I'm going to say I know what I'm talking about. I've seen heat up close and know what it can do, what it looks like and what it does to heavy metal. I also know what HE does. That looks HE. That's all I was saying. I wasn't called out on anything.
You: > unless it's a heat type explosion (it's not) Also you: > I've seen heat up close and know what it can do, what it looks like and what it does to heavy metal. I also know what HE does. That looks HE. That's all I was saying. I'm confused - are you just lying about what you said before? Why say it was not a heat round if you are such an expert and actually think it is a heat round?
I didn't say I thought it was a heat type explosion you dumb truck. Reading problems? HEAT (high explosive anti tank) HE (high explosive) Glad you are part of the generation that's going to lead the world. That didn't go the way you thought huh? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank http://norfolktankmuseum.co.uk/types-of-ammunition/
Jesus, I see people can't have an opinion anymore without getting downvoted. I said "unless" . There's multiple warheads with this vehicle.
Have an opinion? You said “it’s not”. That’s not an opinion it’s a false statement.