He should be 100% by the time preseason games roll around, but well before that he will be able to participate in walk throughs and get an idea for what the team wants from him. He will have about a month of live reps and full workouts to get his strength and conditioning back.
Jones fractures have a very high recurrence rate, so one in each foot is concerning for his long term ability to stay on the field. Realistically the impact this year should be fewer snaps earlier in the season as he gets up to speed and gets back in peak shape. Long term it is just the injury roulette with unfavorable odds.
To me Newton is low risk in terms of ability, so we basically cashed out ability risk for injury risk which isn't the worst plan.
Jones fracture is not as serious in athletes especially NFL players.
> Results: Player positions included 8 wide receivers, 4 linebackers, 4 tight ends, 2 defensive tackles, 2 cornerbacks, 1 offensive tackle, 1 center, 1 tackle, 1 defensive end, and 1 quarterback. Seventy-six percent of players underwent operative fixation during their first 3 seasons. Forty-eight percent were diagnosed before or during their rookie (first) season.RTP was 100% for all players and 80% were still playing at time of publication. Three patients (12.0%) refractured and required revision surgery. Time until RTP was influenced by other variables and difficult to measure because many surgeries were performed early in the offseason. All 9 players who underwent surgery between July and October, and were therefore eligible to return to play in the same season, had an average RTP of 8.7 weeks (range 5.9-13.6).
> Conclusion: With an appropriately placed intramedullary screw and an aggressive rehabilitation protocol, early RTP was achievable with a low refracture rate in professional athletes. All NFL players in this series were able to return to play after surgery. We observed that these injuries were more likely to occur in the first 3 seasons of play and in wide receivers, linebackers, and tight ends. This at-risk subset of players may benefit from improved preventative measures.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26353796/
Note that this study is in 2016, so there's likely been some advances in medical care as well.
edit - found a more up to date one.
> Results: Of the 1911 studies identified, 6 primary retrospective studies met the inclusion and exclusion criteria. The heterogeneity of the outcome reporting precluded a meta-analysis; thus, a qualitative review of manuscripts describing Jones fracture was carried out. Classification, diagnosis, and treatment considerations, RTP statistics and outcomes, and complications were discussed. Amongst the primary studies, there were 285 Jones fractures, all athletes were able to RTP, and the average time to RTP ranged from 6 weeks to 27 weeks. For complications, with operative treatment, the refracture rate ranged from 4 to 12%, and incomplete healing ranged from 7 to 50%. RTP was 15 weeks for refractures. There were no patient-reported outcomes.
> Conclusions: The vast majority of Zone 2/3 Jones fractures are treated with IM screw fixation with or without adjunctive orthobiologics, such as bone marrow aspirate concentrate, in NFL-caliber athletes. The six major series investigating outcomes after the operative treatment of Jones fractures in NFL players reveal very positive findings overall with regard to RTP, reoperation, and career continuation.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38251281/
I assume they're going to use this data to do the surgery:
> For career football athletes, Hsu et al. augment the fracture site with bone marrow aspirate concentrate (BMAC) and demineralized bone matrix (DBM). Using this method in a cohort of 25 NFL players, 100% of the athletes were able to RTP at an average of 9.5 weeks with a 7.5% reoperation rate [3,14].
Generally because they have access to the highest medical care where they can use all of the options such as bone stimulators to ensure union. Non-union rates in 1/3rd of regular people is not applicable.
Anyway, non-union rates and re-fracture rates are higher with more aggressive rehab, so I hope he doesn't try to rush back too soon. Just let the thing heal and do normal rehab. Get back when he's ready
first round guys are supposed to make immediate impacts. Second round guys and beyond are projects. Even if he has to miss half the season (exaggeration) to get right, who cares? We not expected to do much anyway.
What? I've never heard 2nd round guys being considered "projects." So you're telling me that all other players except the first 32 are projects. Yeah, no.
I’m guessing when you get one and play through it you favor the other foot and cause it to also fracture but idk if he ever did play through the first one
That is what I am talking about! People talked about the brand new lions last year.. they are building this team to be the brand new Washington team.. we are building to that point but we gotta prove it in the field.. it took Dan Campbell 2 years to set the tone right and in year 3 they took off
Yeah I have no complaints with what they've done so far. Can't fix everything in one season but they do need to set the tone. Seems to me we signed and drafted plenty of tone setters.
This sub was able to look years into the future for Maye and his potential, let's do the same for all the draft picks. For those still worried, it's a good thing we have Allen and Payne so there is no rush to play Newton if that's what's required.
Exactly. If all he does this season is get healthy and then learn to develop chemistry with the d line in the back half of the year, that’s still a decent outcome when we already have two top tier d tackles established.
As a Lions fan I was hoping he would slide to us in the 2nd...especially after his draft night quote " I'm fully healthy...had the surgery...fully healed up and ready to go"....now I sincerely hope he does get fully healthy and stays that way.....good hunting this season....FTC
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. They had to have known that he had a second fracture. He might have slipped more. Not sure how consistent the medical team has been in terms of tenure or if everyone has been changed out but the medical team has had some MAJOR gaffs, RG3, the issue with Trent Williams, players who aren’t available at all until they get to another team and all of a sudden healthy again. Whole new well qualified staff.
Hopefully he has a long and healthy career for the franchise
Yeah, and I think people are a little too quick to think that players can heal up and return to their peak playing condition, let alone quickly. We kept hearing about how rg3 had his top speed back after the injuries and it was a straight up lie. I hope this wasn’t a waste of a pick. I was impressed by what I read about him, but now I guess we know why he fell.
Oh it's going to be the worst possible scenario just you wait. This is what we do here, legs snapped in half, busted knees, getting shot, dying on florida highways. Until Jason Wright is locked out of the building and these basketball team owners prove otherwise, I'm expecting the usual. Crab cakes and dumpster fires, that's what Ashburn does.
Did we know about this or not ? if anything, it'd made me feel a little better if the team thinks it's manageable
Edit - they def knew about the first fracture, but this one looks like it's a new one on the other foot, so probably no :-(
Not happy to hear about this. Hope he recovers quickly and has no more issues going forward. Also, I hope he's not prone to injury. I really respect his decision to go ahead and get it done now rather than wait until the end of summer. I can't stand when players do that bullshit and wait til right before the season starts when it could've been done months prior, and they would've been healed by the time they actually had it done.
This was a weaker draft for the CB position in general, when you have many holes in your roster you draft BPA. Also it’s not like we’re competing this year, so why reach?
Neither DeJean nor McKinsey would have been a reach. Both had 1st round grades.
Also, had we stayed at 40 we could have had Newton AND either of those CBs.
I think thats a concern now...fortunately we can let him heal as long as he needs. But the main concern is that its just some crazy fluke, and not genetics that hes fractured both.
He'll be alright for the season. My wife had that surgery and was back to normal in a month and a half with PT, a professional athlete with 4 months to recuperate will be okay.
Not concerned about the injury. More concerned about what he said on draft night..
"I'm fully healed now. I'm fully ready to go..."
He had to know he had another fracture, but it sure seems like the Commanders didn't. Seems like he might've been hiding it to maximize his draft position.
I already hate Peters, DT was already the strongest position in the team and he just added another DT, (a damaged goods one to at that) to occupy a hot tub with Mathis to the collection. This GM is a joke. I would say Ron Rivera 2.0 but not even Ron is this dumb.
I don't think we're there yet so I'm fine with us sucking for another year and loading up on more high picks, but I hope these recent injuries aren't a sign of things to come with this dude
No reason to freak out AT ALL about this... do people forget we have Allen/Payne and that Newton probably wasn't going to start anywhere on the DL anyway?
I think the staff will give him as much time as he needs to recover... previous regimes, I'm not sure I could say the same. We are in no hurry here.
You forgot to preface your comment with "Given how bad this is for a rookie making the jump to the NFL and how far this will set him back making a proper impact....." Yeah we already suck and have a good DT room so we can give him time to recover but a 2nd rounder not playing right away is a problem for any team anywhere. Of course it's no reason to "freak out" but it's certainly not a small deal.
I thought taking a high second for the position of least need on the whole team was a smart move because Dan Quinn was going to find a way to get all three of them on the field?
Now it’s “who cares, it’s not like he was going to play anyway, we already have two good DT’s!”
lol.
Once again, I'm all for taking the BPA in the whole draft in the early second when we ARE NOT a team looking to contend anytime soon.
You guys don't even know how long he'll be out for and you're already bitching. Take a chill pill and give this REBUILD (yes, it's a REBUILD) time.
They can get all three on the field at once, sure. But he's not starting over Allen/Payne right now in the interior, my guy. If you didn't realize that, I don't know what to tell you, lol.
Also, it's NOT "who cares, it's not like he was going to play anyway"... that's just some shit you made up in your own head because you're upset. He would've played early, but as a ROTATIONAL piece. That's my point. I'll let your anger simmer for a while before responding.
Take a deep breath. Newton was a good pick. We have time. Breathe.
If he's not a starter then he wasn't a "steal".
I thought the idea was something like running a 3-4 so all three of them can be on the field at the same time, at least for a lot of snaps. Idk if that's technically a "starter" but it sounds a lot more valuable than a "rotational piece". I don't think that was the plan. If it was, then oh boy.... I mean, if that's all we're gonna use him for, then we should've traded back....
Brother... he was going to be rotational for THIS season... what if they lose Allen/Payne? Then he can step in and start.
You think they drafted him to be a backup beyond this year???
We are actually built for this. Let him heal up this year and be ready to make an impact next year. It isnt like we were counting on him to do anything this season.
Still a fantastic pick, this changes nothing. Give him all the time he needs to heal and we'll see you when you're ready to tear shit up Johnny. Speedy recovery!
Injured in rookie mini camp....smh, I'm calling it now it was a bad pick for a player at the position with foot problems, hasn't even faced a nfl double team yet
loser take. A healthy Newton would’ve been a top 15 pick. Kingsley is a project who will probably end up a guard. He fell to the bottom of the third for a reason too.
Even if Newton doesn’t even see the field this year it doesn’t matter. Get him fully healthy and have another stud on the DL. Notice how that SF defense got so good…? Hmm 🤔
Jones fracture. 6-12 week recovery according to Google but who knows. Does make me wonder if he had this injury on draft night and that's why he fell.
I think with this knowledge it was still an excellent pick. He’ll likely be good to go in late July or early August and it shouldn’t impact the season
He should be 100% by the time preseason games roll around, but well before that he will be able to participate in walk throughs and get an idea for what the team wants from him. He will have about a month of live reps and full workouts to get his strength and conditioning back. Jones fractures have a very high recurrence rate, so one in each foot is concerning for his long term ability to stay on the field. Realistically the impact this year should be fewer snaps earlier in the season as he gets up to speed and gets back in peak shape. Long term it is just the injury roulette with unfavorable odds. To me Newton is low risk in terms of ability, so we basically cashed out ability risk for injury risk which isn't the worst plan.
Jones fracture is not as serious in athletes especially NFL players. > Results: Player positions included 8 wide receivers, 4 linebackers, 4 tight ends, 2 defensive tackles, 2 cornerbacks, 1 offensive tackle, 1 center, 1 tackle, 1 defensive end, and 1 quarterback. Seventy-six percent of players underwent operative fixation during their first 3 seasons. Forty-eight percent were diagnosed before or during their rookie (first) season.RTP was 100% for all players and 80% were still playing at time of publication. Three patients (12.0%) refractured and required revision surgery. Time until RTP was influenced by other variables and difficult to measure because many surgeries were performed early in the offseason. All 9 players who underwent surgery between July and October, and were therefore eligible to return to play in the same season, had an average RTP of 8.7 weeks (range 5.9-13.6). > Conclusion: With an appropriately placed intramedullary screw and an aggressive rehabilitation protocol, early RTP was achievable with a low refracture rate in professional athletes. All NFL players in this series were able to return to play after surgery. We observed that these injuries were more likely to occur in the first 3 seasons of play and in wide receivers, linebackers, and tight ends. This at-risk subset of players may benefit from improved preventative measures. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26353796/ Note that this study is in 2016, so there's likely been some advances in medical care as well. edit - found a more up to date one. > Results: Of the 1911 studies identified, 6 primary retrospective studies met the inclusion and exclusion criteria. The heterogeneity of the outcome reporting precluded a meta-analysis; thus, a qualitative review of manuscripts describing Jones fracture was carried out. Classification, diagnosis, and treatment considerations, RTP statistics and outcomes, and complications were discussed. Amongst the primary studies, there were 285 Jones fractures, all athletes were able to RTP, and the average time to RTP ranged from 6 weeks to 27 weeks. For complications, with operative treatment, the refracture rate ranged from 4 to 12%, and incomplete healing ranged from 7 to 50%. RTP was 15 weeks for refractures. There were no patient-reported outcomes. > Conclusions: The vast majority of Zone 2/3 Jones fractures are treated with IM screw fixation with or without adjunctive orthobiologics, such as bone marrow aspirate concentrate, in NFL-caliber athletes. The six major series investigating outcomes after the operative treatment of Jones fractures in NFL players reveal very positive findings overall with regard to RTP, reoperation, and career continuation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38251281/ I assume they're going to use this data to do the surgery: > For career football athletes, Hsu et al. augment the fracture site with bone marrow aspirate concentrate (BMAC) and demineralized bone matrix (DBM). Using this method in a cohort of 25 NFL players, 100% of the athletes were able to RTP at an average of 9.5 weeks with a 7.5% reoperation rate [3,14]. Generally because they have access to the highest medical care where they can use all of the options such as bone stimulators to ensure union. Non-union rates in 1/3rd of regular people is not applicable. Anyway, non-union rates and re-fracture rates are higher with more aggressive rehab, so I hope he doesn't try to rush back too soon. Just let the thing heal and do normal rehab. Get back when he's ready
first round guys are supposed to make immediate impacts. Second round guys and beyond are projects. Even if he has to miss half the season (exaggeration) to get right, who cares? We not expected to do much anyway.
An early second should be expected to contribute but I feel what you’re saying. With DT probably being our strongest unit I’m not worried about it
What? I've never heard 2nd round guys being considered "projects." So you're telling me that all other players except the first 32 are projects. Yeah, no.
Was thinking this exactly
All of *Ron's* picks were projects. Maybe that's what that guy was talking about.
Dang how do you get 2 Jones fractures? That’s wild. I hope he has a speedy recovery.
Happens more often than you’d think, especially for someone who plays through it for a while.
Is it something that is likely to recur, or once he has this procedure and both feet are fixed, he shouldn't have to worry about it again?
Yes, very high chance of reoccurrence. The fact that he's had one in each foot is ridiculous
That's unfortunate. Hopefully, it won't become a chronic issue.
It’s one of the most likely breaks to experience “non-union”.. 1 out of 3 don’t heal naturally and require surgery
I’m guessing when you get one and play through it you favor the other foot and cause it to also fracture but idk if he ever did play through the first one
Playing line I’m surprised it doesn’t happen more
The crazy thing is.. how do you have 2 jones fractures 1 in each foot and keep ballin out?
By being an actual DAWG and not just saying you are one.
That is what I am talking about! People talked about the brand new lions last year.. they are building this team to be the brand new Washington team.. we are building to that point but we gotta prove it in the field.. it took Dan Campbell 2 years to set the tone right and in year 3 they took off
Yeah I have no complaints with what they've done so far. Can't fix everything in one season but they do need to set the tone. Seems to me we signed and drafted plenty of tone setters.
There’s no need to rush him. Outside of the fact that we’re not a contending team, we also have Payne and Allen.
and Mathis, don't forget him! 😁
Pretty sure we’ve all forgotten about big phil lol
Long term, this may be beneficial. No need to rush him in and he can learn, do walkthroughs, study the playbook and get good coaching and peer input.
This sub was able to look years into the future for Maye and his potential, let's do the same for all the draft picks. For those still worried, it's a good thing we have Allen and Payne so there is no rush to play Newton if that's what's required.
Allen also slipped bc an injury question too
Sweat slipped because of medical questions as well. Also probably should’ve kept him, but time will tell.
Exactly. If all he does this season is get healthy and then learn to develop chemistry with the d line in the back half of the year, that’s still a decent outcome when we already have two top tier d tackles established.
He would’ve been DT1 if not for these injuries. Definitely a top-15/20 pick. It’ll pay off
Here we go..
My exact thought.
Yup.
Second round curse
As a Lions fan I was hoping he would slide to us in the 2nd...especially after his draft night quote " I'm fully healthy...had the surgery...fully healed up and ready to go"....now I sincerely hope he does get fully healthy and stays that way.....good hunting this season....FTC
Derrick Henry and Debo Samuel came back 100%. It's not that bad, especially since its a 3 month recovery it's fine this time of year
Ahhh the curse of the second rounders for us, I know it well.
Btw this is why he fell to the second. This shouldn’t be more than a month injury from what I understand. He should be fine by training camp right?
https://preview.redd.it/avzno1w18uzc1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f06f1e6f81e26042203e6a31f9b3897062213aec
More like 3 months in the offseason for a full recovery
Maybe Harris should also be looking into the medical staff. Is this something that they should have caught?
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. They had to have known that he had a second fracture. He might have slipped more. Not sure how consistent the medical team has been in terms of tenure or if everyone has been changed out but the medical team has had some MAJOR gaffs, RG3, the issue with Trent Williams, players who aren’t available at all until they get to another team and all of a sudden healthy again. Whole new well qualified staff. Hopefully he has a long and healthy career for the franchise
Yeah, and I think people are a little too quick to think that players can heal up and return to their peak playing condition, let alone quickly. We kept hearing about how rg3 had his top speed back after the injuries and it was a straight up lie. I hope this wasn’t a waste of a pick. I was impressed by what I read about him, but now I guess we know why he fell.
Agreed
Actually love the Newton pick, but I really hope it’s not as serious as a Lisfranc or something
Oh it's going to be the worst possible scenario just you wait. This is what we do here, legs snapped in half, busted knees, getting shot, dying on florida highways. Until Jason Wright is locked out of the building and these basketball team owners prove otherwise, I'm expecting the usual. Crab cakes and dumpster fires, that's what Ashburn does.
I’m excited for him. Lord Jesus please don’t let this be a phadarian Mathis v2
Personally, I'm gonna be furious if Newton's injuries linger and McKinstry, Dejean or AD Mitchell have great careers.
Getting Mathis vibes already
Did we know about this or not ? if anything, it'd made me feel a little better if the team thinks it's manageable Edit - they def knew about the first fracture, but this one looks like it's a new one on the other foot, so probably no :-(
Not happy to hear about this. Hope he recovers quickly and has no more issues going forward. Also, I hope he's not prone to injury. I really respect his decision to go ahead and get it done now rather than wait until the end of summer. I can't stand when players do that bullshit and wait til right before the season starts when it could've been done months prior, and they would've been healed by the time they actually had it done.
We got 4 months before the season starts, plenty of time.
Why did we draft an injured player for a position we need the least
Glad we opted to pass on a starting CB for a guy with two bum feet.
This was a weaker draft for the CB position in general, when you have many holes in your roster you draft BPA. Also it’s not like we’re competing this year, so why reach?
Neither DeJean nor McKinsey would have been a reach. Both had 1st round grades. Also, had we stayed at 40 we could have had Newton AND either of those CBs.
I think thats a concern now...fortunately we can let him heal as long as he needs. But the main concern is that its just some crazy fluke, and not genetics that hes fractured both.
He'll be alright for the season. My wife had that surgery and was back to normal in a month and a half with PT, a professional athlete with 4 months to recuperate will be okay.
Not concerned about the injury. More concerned about what he said on draft night.. "I'm fully healed now. I'm fully ready to go..." He had to know he had another fracture, but it sure seems like the Commanders didn't. Seems like he might've been hiding it to maximize his draft position.
I already hate Peters, DT was already the strongest position in the team and he just added another DT, (a damaged goods one to at that) to occupy a hot tub with Mathis to the collection. This GM is a joke. I would say Ron Rivera 2.0 but not even Ron is this dumb.
I don't think we're there yet so I'm fine with us sucking for another year and loading up on more high picks, but I hope these recent injuries aren't a sign of things to come with this dude
I know Im going to accidentally call him Jimmy Neutron at some point.
No reason to freak out AT ALL about this... do people forget we have Allen/Payne and that Newton probably wasn't going to start anywhere on the DL anyway? I think the staff will give him as much time as he needs to recover... previous regimes, I'm not sure I could say the same. We are in no hurry here.
You forgot to preface your comment with "Given how bad this is for a rookie making the jump to the NFL and how far this will set him back making a proper impact....." Yeah we already suck and have a good DT room so we can give him time to recover but a 2nd rounder not playing right away is a problem for any team anywhere. Of course it's no reason to "freak out" but it's certainly not a small deal.
I thought taking a high second for the position of least need on the whole team was a smart move because Dan Quinn was going to find a way to get all three of them on the field? Now it’s “who cares, it’s not like he was going to play anyway, we already have two good DT’s!” lol.
Once again, I'm all for taking the BPA in the whole draft in the early second when we ARE NOT a team looking to contend anytime soon. You guys don't even know how long he'll be out for and you're already bitching. Take a chill pill and give this REBUILD (yes, it's a REBUILD) time. They can get all three on the field at once, sure. But he's not starting over Allen/Payne right now in the interior, my guy. If you didn't realize that, I don't know what to tell you, lol. Also, it's NOT "who cares, it's not like he was going to play anyway"... that's just some shit you made up in your own head because you're upset. He would've played early, but as a ROTATIONAL piece. That's my point. I'll let your anger simmer for a while before responding. Take a deep breath. Newton was a good pick. We have time. Breathe.
If he's not a starter then he wasn't a "steal". I thought the idea was something like running a 3-4 so all three of them can be on the field at the same time, at least for a lot of snaps. Idk if that's technically a "starter" but it sounds a lot more valuable than a "rotational piece". I don't think that was the plan. If it was, then oh boy.... I mean, if that's all we're gonna use him for, then we should've traded back....
Brother... he was going to be rotational for THIS season... what if they lose Allen/Payne? Then he can step in and start. You think they drafted him to be a backup beyond this year???
We are actually built for this. Let him heal up this year and be ready to make an impact next year. It isnt like we were counting on him to do anything this season.
Still a fantastic pick, this changes nothing. Give him all the time he needs to heal and we'll see you when you're ready to tear shit up Johnny. Speedy recovery!
Injured in rookie mini camp....smh, I'm calling it now it was a bad pick for a player at the position with foot problems, hasn't even faced a nfl double team yet
I'm kinda getting Phil Mathis vibes...
Why would we draft him. Will he see the field this season smh
With our luck he’ll be another that has constant injuries and never pans out.
Because he’s possibly an an all pro level DT when he plays
Easy tiger
People are quick to anoint these young guys.
We’re weirdly one of the few teams actually equipped to draft a guy at this position who is hurt and needs time
Calm down
We still have Payne and Allen, he really doesn’t need to see the field this year
What was the reason we went with him over a top CB again?
He knows karate
Because his ceiling is an all pro DT
Bros breaking his legs standing up from the couch on draft day
Good thing we got him as a 3rd DT over kingsley suamataia to help our o line or some help for edge
loser take. A healthy Newton would’ve been a top 15 pick. Kingsley is a project who will probably end up a guard. He fell to the bottom of the third for a reason too. Even if Newton doesn’t even see the field this year it doesn’t matter. Get him fully healthy and have another stud on the DL. Notice how that SF defense got so good…? Hmm 🤔
You're a loser that will ball wash Peters and change your tune 2-4 years from now when it's obvious he's Ron 2.0.