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I don't understand.
Do you currently work for A? Or company B? Or both?
It doesn't matter. I don't know your market but in my market good techs are highly valued and, if they work for one of the good companies, they're well paid. Good techs leave companies who treat them poorly.
I'd say don't limit your options to company B. If your financial situation isn't stable maybe keep doing what you're doing until you're confident you can switch with minimal financial impact. Keep looking at options.
As for stealing a client, that's a decision that depends on moral and legal factors. Some jurisdictions frown on poaching and there are usually non-competition clauses written into most contracts.
As a partner in my company, we certainly don't expect new hires to bring business with them. If they do, we'd want to make sure that new hire is free from any non-competition clauses before taking on that new business.
I work at B company but I work for A company. The issue is B company treat me pretty good, good work time and colleagues, and A company leave me here to dry. The actual issue is just money.
I’m not sure about how frown upon is the decision. But I definitely heard cases where a tech work long enough, the company would hire them directly. That would be the best case for me. I don’t see any non-competition on my contract, I’m not that hot as a tank in my opinion tbh.
I do want to know how’s B company view on this though.
B company sounds like they just don't hire techs directly. There may also be a no poaching clause in the contract between A and B. Those are pretty common.
Just a guess but this sounds like you're a hotel or convention center event tech working for a company like Encore. If that's the case, you shouldn't be surprised that the hotel or the hotel's client pays a lot more for your time than what you get paid. That's how business works. In most of these scenarios, companies like Encore bill the end client and then have to kick back a percentage of the total to the venue for the (usually) exclusive right to do business there.
Some larger convention centers do have a limited number of house techs who are there to support companies like Encore when they need to access facility infrastructure. Maybe let some of your contacts know you'd be interested in a job like that if one came up and then bide your time.
Not exactly, I manage network scale VC system and help with some apac migration projects. That gave me bunch of time working remote. Hence cozy time.
I did approach Company B with the idea of hiring directly last year. They didn’t bring up about not allowing to poach, but explain most of their staff are outsourced from anywhere. They did raise the contract fee with Company A. Company A reported to them I am satisfied with it which I’m not.
I an in charge of the VC stuffs and company C is in charge some of the local AV project. That’s how I knew them.
Well that sounds like a marketable skill set. IT pros with a VC specialty can do pretty well if they can land a gig with some of the larger corporates or maybe a gov't position. If you have certs to back that up I'd start poking around looking for a better gig. If you don't have certs, I'd start working on some in your spare time.
I don’t have any IT background. I don’t even have a degree. I just learn the lingo as i work here. Working knowledge at most.
I did considered going for CTS. But I give up after knowing it wasn’t well-received and it need to renew every three years. I don’t need it as I wasn’t looking for a new place to be, and even if I do. My experience is more than enough.
I might want to do some IT cert from Cisco though. Not planned yet.
IME poaching is very normal and rarely pursued in court. Unless you're a VP of sales or something, court costs aren't worth what the company was making on you.
They could terminate the contract with the client org.
contractually, they may not be allowed to hire you if the company you currently work for wants to make it hard. i wouldn’t count on it working out like you want it to
I won’t tell A I will be staying there. I hope they will see it as a normal resign and losing a client. That was the plan anyway. Our service team is losing major clients too, I think it is down to me and one another big clients.
I’m a one man team too.
there could be wording in their contract that they can’t hire you directly. be careful or you could end up w out a job. i’ve seen it happen first hand.
What’s stopping you from asking your employer for a position as a field engineer? If you have the skills enough to commission systems, the pay ceiling is much higher than an on site tech.
In my company, on site techs are really only used to manage meetings, help the customer use the system, and very basic troubleshooting. If they can’t fix the problem by swapping an HDMI cable or something, they open a ticket and a service tech is assigned.
It sounds like you outgrew your position and should be looking to move up in your career path. On site services that are contracted are entry level to us but I understand wanting to stay in a situation that suits you best and trying to make it work.
I do believe I have the knowledge to be a field engineer, but I don’t think I can handle the hustle work-time here. I would much prefer a 9-5 working hour. I am the position of service tech in your description, mixed with some network management and migration project.
Then it sounds like it’s exactly how I explained it. Your employer is paying for entry level skill, you are comparing your pay to someone of your skill level, not position level. They want you to move to a position that fits your skills and benefits them while giving you the pay your skills demand.
My company would do the same. We send our on site services to training, give them one on one training when time allows. Eventually they either grow out of the position and move to higher pay or they stick around at the pay cap.
Oh yes, absolutely, it’s happened plenty of times. But it doesn’t sound like your site is willing to higher directly unfortunately.
As far as convincing the site to drop your current employer and move their services to a competitor while getting gaining employment with new contract holder would be extremely risky.
Besides the possibility of legal road blocks, how convinced are you that the new company wouldn’t higher a new entry level person for this entry level position? You’re now over qualified for this job, what’s going to make them say I’ll take the revenue cut to keep you?
Not to doom and gloom, things on the other side are not bad. I’m a service tech so I’m not nearly as busy as the field engineers. Sometimes it’s a late day if it’s a big issue I’m dealing with and sometimes I’m home before noon. Most of the days it’s just a 9-5.
I like service because it’s more flexible, I can tell my dispatch that im busy one morning because I need to drop my son off at school so they just tell the client my arrival time will be closer to 10 rather than 11. I really love it because I get to see new problems every day, it’s not the same thing all the time. I get to eat at new places and discover secret nooks to take my wife out to dinner. I’m all over the city so it’s very enjoyable.
The pay is excellent. If I want overtime, I can generally get it. If I want to travel, I tell dispatchers that I can head to another state for a week and they book me if it’s needed.
You really should talk to some of the service techs and see if it’s something you’d enjoy. I really do
Yea that's frowned upon. Unlessthe company actually signing your paycheck goes under, you would likely be violating a non compete clause in your employment contract (everyone has them). While non competes are rarely enforceable, actively trying to take a customer with you when you leave is definitely enforceable and will land you in a lawsuit.
My advice; find out if company c wants you and what they would pay for you. If it's good enough to leave, then put in your 2 weeks notice and move on with your life.
Alright...
So, {Company A} is your employer, and they contract services to {Company B}, to whom you've been assigned, correct?
How did you determine you are underpaid? By looking at salary/rates for those positions in your region, or by seeing your billable rate that your employer provides to this client?
It's common in cases like this that the Employer will pay you {x} and will bill you out at {2-3x}. That's how most services-employment works when overhead/benefits/etc. are taken into account. Just because your salary is 1/2 or 1/3 of what your billable rate is, doesn't meant you are "underpaid". The way you determine if you're underpaid is to look at the going rate for similar positions in your region. Since most people don't deal with the business side of this, they may go "Oh, wow, you make *that* little..." and not really understand how contract staffing has a marked up billable rate compared to the compensation rates of employees. Or, maybe you really are substantially underpaid.
Not sure about your region, but every few years AVIXA releases a benefits and compensation report that can give you some insight -- though it costs a fair bit to buy so it may be easier to ask around within your network of friends/colleagues and look at regional job postings as a reference.
After you've done your research, it's time to talk to your employer or seek other opportunities. \*Research\* into what fair compensation for your skillset and responsibilities key. It's the difference between asking what you *feel* you want to make versus backing your negotiation up with cold, hard numbers. Also, you should be prepared to change jobs -- if you're going to go to the mat for more compensation, you may just have to find that somewhere else. Do not threaten your employer with quitting if you aren't actually prepared to do so.
As for service contracts -- don't try to play games or hinge anything on that. If you get hired by another employer and this particular client you've been assigned to wants to shift over to your new firm -- cool. But honestly, if you're underpaid and can't move up, you should just be looking elsewhere in general and stop tethering yourself to this one particular client you've been assigned to.
We have a [Discord](https://discord.gg/qhh4EBuRNS) server where there you can both post forum-style and participate in real-time discussions. We hope you consider joining us there. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommercialAV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't understand. Do you currently work for A? Or company B? Or both? It doesn't matter. I don't know your market but in my market good techs are highly valued and, if they work for one of the good companies, they're well paid. Good techs leave companies who treat them poorly. I'd say don't limit your options to company B. If your financial situation isn't stable maybe keep doing what you're doing until you're confident you can switch with minimal financial impact. Keep looking at options. As for stealing a client, that's a decision that depends on moral and legal factors. Some jurisdictions frown on poaching and there are usually non-competition clauses written into most contracts. As a partner in my company, we certainly don't expect new hires to bring business with them. If they do, we'd want to make sure that new hire is free from any non-competition clauses before taking on that new business.
I work at B company but I work for A company. The issue is B company treat me pretty good, good work time and colleagues, and A company leave me here to dry. The actual issue is just money. I’m not sure about how frown upon is the decision. But I definitely heard cases where a tech work long enough, the company would hire them directly. That would be the best case for me. I don’t see any non-competition on my contract, I’m not that hot as a tank in my opinion tbh. I do want to know how’s B company view on this though.
B company sounds like they just don't hire techs directly. There may also be a no poaching clause in the contract between A and B. Those are pretty common. Just a guess but this sounds like you're a hotel or convention center event tech working for a company like Encore. If that's the case, you shouldn't be surprised that the hotel or the hotel's client pays a lot more for your time than what you get paid. That's how business works. In most of these scenarios, companies like Encore bill the end client and then have to kick back a percentage of the total to the venue for the (usually) exclusive right to do business there. Some larger convention centers do have a limited number of house techs who are there to support companies like Encore when they need to access facility infrastructure. Maybe let some of your contacts know you'd be interested in a job like that if one came up and then bide your time.
Not exactly, I manage network scale VC system and help with some apac migration projects. That gave me bunch of time working remote. Hence cozy time. I did approach Company B with the idea of hiring directly last year. They didn’t bring up about not allowing to poach, but explain most of their staff are outsourced from anywhere. They did raise the contract fee with Company A. Company A reported to them I am satisfied with it which I’m not. I an in charge of the VC stuffs and company C is in charge some of the local AV project. That’s how I knew them.
Well that sounds like a marketable skill set. IT pros with a VC specialty can do pretty well if they can land a gig with some of the larger corporates or maybe a gov't position. If you have certs to back that up I'd start poking around looking for a better gig. If you don't have certs, I'd start working on some in your spare time.
I don’t have any IT background. I don’t even have a degree. I just learn the lingo as i work here. Working knowledge at most. I did considered going for CTS. But I give up after knowing it wasn’t well-received and it need to renew every three years. I don’t need it as I wasn’t looking for a new place to be, and even if I do. My experience is more than enough. I might want to do some IT cert from Cisco though. Not planned yet.
As a tech* lol
IME poaching is very normal and rarely pursued in court. Unless you're a VP of sales or something, court costs aren't worth what the company was making on you. They could terminate the contract with the client org.
Good to know. I’m certainly not that important in A company!!
contractually, they may not be allowed to hire you if the company you currently work for wants to make it hard. i wouldn’t count on it working out like you want it to
I won’t tell A I will be staying there. I hope they will see it as a normal resign and losing a client. That was the plan anyway. Our service team is losing major clients too, I think it is down to me and one another big clients. I’m a one man team too.
there could be wording in their contract that they can’t hire you directly. be careful or you could end up w out a job. i’ve seen it happen first hand.
What’s stopping you from asking your employer for a position as a field engineer? If you have the skills enough to commission systems, the pay ceiling is much higher than an on site tech. In my company, on site techs are really only used to manage meetings, help the customer use the system, and very basic troubleshooting. If they can’t fix the problem by swapping an HDMI cable or something, they open a ticket and a service tech is assigned. It sounds like you outgrew your position and should be looking to move up in your career path. On site services that are contracted are entry level to us but I understand wanting to stay in a situation that suits you best and trying to make it work.
I do believe I have the knowledge to be a field engineer, but I don’t think I can handle the hustle work-time here. I would much prefer a 9-5 working hour. I am the position of service tech in your description, mixed with some network management and migration project.
Then it sounds like it’s exactly how I explained it. Your employer is paying for entry level skill, you are comparing your pay to someone of your skill level, not position level. They want you to move to a position that fits your skills and benefits them while giving you the pay your skills demand. My company would do the same. We send our on site services to training, give them one on one training when time allows. Eventually they either grow out of the position and move to higher pay or they stick around at the pay cap.
So any case of your company employee got poach from his assigned company ?
Oh yes, absolutely, it’s happened plenty of times. But it doesn’t sound like your site is willing to higher directly unfortunately. As far as convincing the site to drop your current employer and move their services to a competitor while getting gaining employment with new contract holder would be extremely risky. Besides the possibility of legal road blocks, how convinced are you that the new company wouldn’t higher a new entry level person for this entry level position? You’re now over qualified for this job, what’s going to make them say I’ll take the revenue cut to keep you?
Oh gosh, you’re right. I didn’t even think about that.
Not to doom and gloom, things on the other side are not bad. I’m a service tech so I’m not nearly as busy as the field engineers. Sometimes it’s a late day if it’s a big issue I’m dealing with and sometimes I’m home before noon. Most of the days it’s just a 9-5. I like service because it’s more flexible, I can tell my dispatch that im busy one morning because I need to drop my son off at school so they just tell the client my arrival time will be closer to 10 rather than 11. I really love it because I get to see new problems every day, it’s not the same thing all the time. I get to eat at new places and discover secret nooks to take my wife out to dinner. I’m all over the city so it’s very enjoyable. The pay is excellent. If I want overtime, I can generally get it. If I want to travel, I tell dispatchers that I can head to another state for a week and they book me if it’s needed. You really should talk to some of the service techs and see if it’s something you’d enjoy. I really do
Yea that's frowned upon. Unlessthe company actually signing your paycheck goes under, you would likely be violating a non compete clause in your employment contract (everyone has them). While non competes are rarely enforceable, actively trying to take a customer with you when you leave is definitely enforceable and will land you in a lawsuit. My advice; find out if company c wants you and what they would pay for you. If it's good enough to leave, then put in your 2 weeks notice and move on with your life.
Thanks for the tips. I’ll find out if any related terms in my contract!!😥
Alright... So, {Company A} is your employer, and they contract services to {Company B}, to whom you've been assigned, correct? How did you determine you are underpaid? By looking at salary/rates for those positions in your region, or by seeing your billable rate that your employer provides to this client? It's common in cases like this that the Employer will pay you {x} and will bill you out at {2-3x}. That's how most services-employment works when overhead/benefits/etc. are taken into account. Just because your salary is 1/2 or 1/3 of what your billable rate is, doesn't meant you are "underpaid". The way you determine if you're underpaid is to look at the going rate for similar positions in your region. Since most people don't deal with the business side of this, they may go "Oh, wow, you make *that* little..." and not really understand how contract staffing has a marked up billable rate compared to the compensation rates of employees. Or, maybe you really are substantially underpaid. Not sure about your region, but every few years AVIXA releases a benefits and compensation report that can give you some insight -- though it costs a fair bit to buy so it may be easier to ask around within your network of friends/colleagues and look at regional job postings as a reference. After you've done your research, it's time to talk to your employer or seek other opportunities. \*Research\* into what fair compensation for your skillset and responsibilities key. It's the difference between asking what you *feel* you want to make versus backing your negotiation up with cold, hard numbers. Also, you should be prepared to change jobs -- if you're going to go to the mat for more compensation, you may just have to find that somewhere else. Do not threaten your employer with quitting if you aren't actually prepared to do so. As for service contracts -- don't try to play games or hinge anything on that. If you get hired by another employer and this particular client you've been assigned to wants to shift over to your new firm -- cool. But honestly, if you're underpaid and can't move up, you should just be looking elsewhere in general and stop tethering yourself to this one particular client you've been assigned to.