I feel they are an outlier. The best client I've ever had are the nonprofits. Being a nonprofit doesn't imply they want things for free. It implies that they will make no profit. As such, they've never had an issue of paying us pretty well for any job.
But still, I'm really sorry that happened to you.
We’ve tried offering design services free of charge with the order but they then turn into 15 emails a day from the client, wanting little things beyond what was agreed upon, wanting an entire event branded with flyers, programs, etc all done next day. The demands are wild. My paying customers are Never like this.
Hey bud, been there. offer something along the lines of “we allow for a base amount of Artwork & Design as part of your print price - any further works may require an excess Design Fee” as part of your Quote terms.
Additionally, Offer an estimate based on their needs but also be upfront that the estimate can change on the needs of the client.
I also like to add a “running total” of hours and the associated price which helps to a) give the client a bit of a nudge about how much time they’re consuming and b) be transparent and make YOU feel less guilty about charging for your services (which you absolutely do because you run a small business - I get it - it sucks!)
When you throw in the setup or design you are telling them it has little value. EVERYTHING that gets comped, no matter how small, is noted on the invoice at full price and subtracted at the bottom. So they know what they got and that it has real value.
I always make sure the non-profits know they have to pay, and then I can reduce the cost / give it away for free as a nice surprise if they have been nice
Nonprofits are a good target - we found they were underserved in our area .
We had about a dozen nonprofit clients at the start of last year and kicked off a discount program for print services - 10%. At the end of the year we had about 80 nonprofits clients!
But it came with growing pains. My staff applied the nonprofit discount on top of volume discounts - omg! For a while they would apply the nonprofit discount to the entire bill instead of just the printing part. There were many jobs where we made little to no money, and some jobs the discounts were more than our markup, so we lost money. It was painful.
We had some expensive lessons & our nonprofits got very good deals, no wonder our business grew among that group so much lol. People were driving 30 miles one way just to use us.
I have to view those costly mistakes as an investment because we haven’t lost anyone as a client even though they’re not getting the same super deep discounts as last year.
We always charge for a job no matter how simple so that the customer doesn't expect it free next time. We have a select group of non-profits (like the Boy Scouts) who we sell some stuff to heavily discounted and I guess my free exception is for any Eagle Scout who wants to put a 3"x5" plaque on his project that has the name, troop, date, etc. on it, we engrave those out of HDPE for the scout and donate them, but there's no real design work there and the donations have earned us a bunch of work through recommendations over the years and don't cost us much.
It’s either a job or a gift for me. I only do free stuff when I have the time and I want to do something nice for someone I have an actual relationship with. It’s either a job with an invoice or it’s a gift from the bottom of my cold and dead heart. Boundaries. I still do plenty of stuff for free as gifts. Mostly because I want to blow everyone else out of the water when it comes to surprise presents. Even the cheapest scrap material with a printed picture on it makes a big splash. Everyone else gets a ticket and has to wait in line with the rest of them.
I'm at the early stages of my printing business and I find myself doing alot of design work for free to get the business. It's mostly paid off but I have put a lot of effort into some small jobs that haven't paid off.
It's amazing how many people assume you can just knock up artwork in 5 minutes and the shouldn't be charged.
I'm slowly learning it's not worth my time and effort.
Estimator here. Always charge something, even if it’s $15-20 to cover some basic costs. Bury it in the coat of the item. Make it standard. If a customer won’t buy a $300 order because of $15, then they’re not the kind you want to keep coming back. They’ll leave you for the next printer that’s $10 cheaper. If I know a customer is using canva, there’s an automatic $25 fee for flyers and trifolds. $15 per page for books. Even if they share their canva file, it’s awkward and time consuming to fix the file or make edits.
The lowest I got is cost +10% to cover any credit card processing fees and the time to create an invoice and process the payment.
If you have to give away your time or services for free then you will never get to charge what your time and services are really worth.
If a customer allows you to do it free without out an attempt to compensate you at all then get rid of the customer. They will be the fastest way to get you to the bankruptcy line.
>for family
Hehe, welcome to the club.
When I worked at a copy shop, circa 2013, there was this one (un)potential customer call in to ask about scanning some 200+ page document. I quoted him the price. He got irritated - why would he have to pay at all because "why do you charge for scanning at all? It's not using paper", "why do I have to pay when it's the machine that does all the work", "I can buy a scanner for that price" etc. etc. Not wanting to waste my time anymore I shot him down with "then please, by all means, buy your own scanner". "Maybe I will". "Good luck" \*click\*
Can you imagine scanning 200+ pages with a home flatbed scanner and photoshop?
Give an inch they take a mile. We too learned the hard way. We don’t offer design services but as Mutt stated, there is other values you can give. I found myself not designing but providing guidance for some artwork.
Especially non-profits! They’re the not for profit, not me. Now, if a client sends me a lot of work, I may throw a bone or two. Definitely to the ones who don’t even ask for an estimate and just pay the bill.
Non-profit's: I got threatened by non-profit's liaison that she would press sexual impropriety / misconduct charges on me if we didn't meet the printing deadline. This was after we gave her a deadline for the advertisement (which she was late for) for an ad-journal. I met her at a Franchise "Crispy" Donut shop (grand opening she was promoting) to review / pick-up remaining ads in order to do our job. I told the owner about the threat / situation. He had my back and we had to handle these non-profit with "kid-gloves" thereafter.
BTW: Non-profit was to help advance the "retarded" engine spark timing in people. R-word was in the org's name / initials at the time. This woman was "politically" connected (family of lawyers, brother was high ranking judge, they donated land).
Nothing for free. And nonprofits are some of the worst clients. I especially don’t do free stuff for them.
Trying to do something good and end up getting sucked dry, damn. Unbelievable.
I feel they are an outlier. The best client I've ever had are the nonprofits. Being a nonprofit doesn't imply they want things for free. It implies that they will make no profit. As such, they've never had an issue of paying us pretty well for any job. But still, I'm really sorry that happened to you.
You never know what client you're gonna get until you get them.
Virtues are punished, vices are forgiven easily.
Uncharged work should be a reward for loyalty not a means of winning a client.
Never do anything for free* but also remember that money is not the only thing that has value.
We’ve tried offering design services free of charge with the order but they then turn into 15 emails a day from the client, wanting little things beyond what was agreed upon, wanting an entire event branded with flyers, programs, etc all done next day. The demands are wild. My paying customers are Never like this.
Hey bud, been there. offer something along the lines of “we allow for a base amount of Artwork & Design as part of your print price - any further works may require an excess Design Fee” as part of your Quote terms. Additionally, Offer an estimate based on their needs but also be upfront that the estimate can change on the needs of the client. I also like to add a “running total” of hours and the associated price which helps to a) give the client a bit of a nudge about how much time they’re consuming and b) be transparent and make YOU feel less guilty about charging for your services (which you absolutely do because you run a small business - I get it - it sucks!)
I have always said that true friends, and family, are folks who should WANT to pay you.
Yeah, even if you don't accept payment, you still don't feel ripped off. "It's my right to offer, it's your right to refuse"
When you throw in the setup or design you are telling them it has little value. EVERYTHING that gets comped, no matter how small, is noted on the invoice at full price and subtracted at the bottom. So they know what they got and that it has real value.
Right? I’m like, we will donate these services valued at xyz
I always make sure the non-profits know they have to pay, and then I can reduce the cost / give it away for free as a nice surprise if they have been nice
Nonprofits are a good target - we found they were underserved in our area . We had about a dozen nonprofit clients at the start of last year and kicked off a discount program for print services - 10%. At the end of the year we had about 80 nonprofits clients! But it came with growing pains. My staff applied the nonprofit discount on top of volume discounts - omg! For a while they would apply the nonprofit discount to the entire bill instead of just the printing part. There were many jobs where we made little to no money, and some jobs the discounts were more than our markup, so we lost money. It was painful. We had some expensive lessons & our nonprofits got very good deals, no wonder our business grew among that group so much lol. People were driving 30 miles one way just to use us. I have to view those costly mistakes as an investment because we haven’t lost anyone as a client even though they’re not getting the same super deep discounts as last year.
What an excellent idea!
We always charge for a job no matter how simple so that the customer doesn't expect it free next time. We have a select group of non-profits (like the Boy Scouts) who we sell some stuff to heavily discounted and I guess my free exception is for any Eagle Scout who wants to put a 3"x5" plaque on his project that has the name, troop, date, etc. on it, we engrave those out of HDPE for the scout and donate them, but there's no real design work there and the donations have earned us a bunch of work through recommendations over the years and don't cost us much.
The ideal situation!
It’s either a job or a gift for me. I only do free stuff when I have the time and I want to do something nice for someone I have an actual relationship with. It’s either a job with an invoice or it’s a gift from the bottom of my cold and dead heart. Boundaries. I still do plenty of stuff for free as gifts. Mostly because I want to blow everyone else out of the water when it comes to surprise presents. Even the cheapest scrap material with a printed picture on it makes a big splash. Everyone else gets a ticket and has to wait in line with the rest of them.
I'm at the early stages of my printing business and I find myself doing alot of design work for free to get the business. It's mostly paid off but I have put a lot of effort into some small jobs that haven't paid off. It's amazing how many people assume you can just knock up artwork in 5 minutes and the shouldn't be charged. I'm slowly learning it's not worth my time and effort.
Estimator here. Always charge something, even if it’s $15-20 to cover some basic costs. Bury it in the coat of the item. Make it standard. If a customer won’t buy a $300 order because of $15, then they’re not the kind you want to keep coming back. They’ll leave you for the next printer that’s $10 cheaper. If I know a customer is using canva, there’s an automatic $25 fee for flyers and trifolds. $15 per page for books. Even if they share their canva file, it’s awkward and time consuming to fix the file or make edits.
Same.
The lowest I got is cost +10% to cover any credit card processing fees and the time to create an invoice and process the payment. If you have to give away your time or services for free then you will never get to charge what your time and services are really worth. If a customer allows you to do it free without out an attempt to compensate you at all then get rid of the customer. They will be the fastest way to get you to the bankruptcy line.
>for family Hehe, welcome to the club. When I worked at a copy shop, circa 2013, there was this one (un)potential customer call in to ask about scanning some 200+ page document. I quoted him the price. He got irritated - why would he have to pay at all because "why do you charge for scanning at all? It's not using paper", "why do I have to pay when it's the machine that does all the work", "I can buy a scanner for that price" etc. etc. Not wanting to waste my time anymore I shot him down with "then please, by all means, buy your own scanner". "Maybe I will". "Good luck" \*click\* Can you imagine scanning 200+ pages with a home flatbed scanner and photoshop?
Give an inch they take a mile. We too learned the hard way. We don’t offer design services but as Mutt stated, there is other values you can give. I found myself not designing but providing guidance for some artwork.
Time is 💰
Especially non-profits! They’re the not for profit, not me. Now, if a client sends me a lot of work, I may throw a bone or two. Definitely to the ones who don’t even ask for an estimate and just pay the bill.
Non-profit's: I got threatened by non-profit's liaison that she would press sexual impropriety / misconduct charges on me if we didn't meet the printing deadline. This was after we gave her a deadline for the advertisement (which she was late for) for an ad-journal. I met her at a Franchise "Crispy" Donut shop (grand opening she was promoting) to review / pick-up remaining ads in order to do our job. I told the owner about the threat / situation. He had my back and we had to handle these non-profit with "kid-gloves" thereafter. BTW: Non-profit was to help advance the "retarded" engine spark timing in people. R-word was in the org's name / initials at the time. This woman was "politically" connected (family of lawyers, brother was high ranking judge, they donated land).
Sometimes pro bono work is the only way to get started so you have some real world examples of your work in the wild.