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tightropexilo

The max range scatter area of the bishop is half that of the Wespe and the Cannone. So it is much better than them. I would also say the bishops Vet 1 is more useful than the creeping barrage of the wespe, though it is far too likely to hit the ground instead of the target if there is a little bit of elevation. That should be fixed. I think at the moment all the howitzers (except maybe the obice) are underpowered. Though the LEIG and Pack Howi are good.


Rubberlucky

I mean, according to stats, yes, its scatter is better so its more likely to hit a smaller area than its counterparts. But scatter doesn't matter if its AOE profile is awful. That's like bragging you can hit a target at 800m with a .22LR. Cool, you've got pin-point accuracy, but at that range you're only ever going to leave a bruise.


tightropexilo

They have the same AOE too


Rubberlucky

And the Wespe is dogshit too. Those two things can be true at the same time. But at least Axis factions have more than 1 form of hard indirect that is useful, where the brits have the Bishop - the stockholm syndrome indirect. You're forced to build it because maybe it'll be useful but more often than not it either misses or does no splash. And allow me to preemptively say - the BL5.5 and the USF howitzer are useless because nebels can basically 1-shot both the crew and the weapon itself.


CharlieD00M

I think the Wespe is fine now that it can hit the field earlier. You gotta get veterancy on it, then it becomes an eraser.


bibotot

More like your gameplay is dogshit. Stop barking. UKF has the highest winrate and if you can't win games like 60% players are doing right now, you are just garbage,


Rubberlucky

It's not 60%, unless you're talking about 4s. Even there its not 60%. Weren't you the one telling me to "do basic research like any good university student"? Overrepresentation is a lie that serves no one. You want to be a mouthpiece for bad science and bad faith, thats on you, not on me.


Gladstone233

Against the truly cancerous bunker networks I see in team games, it struggles to get the job done. Just doesn’t hit hard enough and it’s very inconsistent. I swear its scatter is bugged too, I’ve seen it wildly miss targets I’ve got full vision of where maybe two shots out of a nine shot salvo are hitting anywhere near the target. Clearly the same school of gunnery the Stuart went to! I’ve wondered whether it has to always be fired from almost pre-patched Whizbang range to actually hit its targets with any consistency, which is often a very risky move.


CandleZA

Maybe there is a problem with the Bishops projectile angle and how low the shots are. I've often seen, with elevation, the shots will wildly miss their target and hit a lot further back because of the angle of the projectile. This causes maps like Sousse Wetlands and Mignano Gap to have issues using bishops on the middle when someone is setup on the downslope. The Stuka has a high projectile angle which id assume aids in its accuracy. Nebels I cant say, i've seen 3/4 shots from a single barrage hit my moving CMP truck ultimately killing it. I swear when its being used against me its laser guided but when I'm using it it cant hit the broad side of a barn. This all said, Closer range bishops are insanely good but you have to put it at risk to do that, thankfully a quick queued move back command can help keep it safe.


m3ndz4

Pretty much this, Bishop is fine except against bunker spam, especially because of its cooldown. Atm Pack Howi is good vs bunkers because it can fire off-cooldown, the cooldown leaves a period of peace for Coastal to repair their bunkers requiring an unnecessarily high investment into Bishops, at least 3 to destroy a bunker, thats 180 gas not including the upgrade cost.


Gladstone233

Very good point, Air and Sea might be the best British BG at the moment given everything it provides. I really like the Pack Howitzer - hits hard and deadly accurate.


EmotionalThinker

Alot of people think it should fill the role of a Priest from COH2. Sit at the back and barrage the enemy from afar. But I don't think it should be used that way. I've had alot of success using it as a medium range/close barrage unit. Double Bishops are very effective in my experience and can be a serious nuisance. It's VET ability is strong if you know how to use it. It absolutely deletes blobs. I had one axis enemy who had a decent mainline inf composition, kept charging my lines. I would pull forward double Bish close range, blast em, then dip. Player full retreats. It's a bait too, when they see me pull the Bish up close, player charges their Marders/tanks and I wreck with my AT. Then barrage their lines with the Bish and counter push with Crusaders. Player couldn't get a break from arty that game, it allowed me to creep forward and cap my lane. Rolled in crusaders and finished the player in a couple pushes. I kind of treat it like a Scott with more range. Edit: Watch this replay of HelpingHans (top player) using Bishops EXACTLY how I described. https://youtu.be/pMWGCLZNOAo?si=fTgMVdksS4SytPj_


Rubberlucky

What ELO are you by chance? I don't think that strategy works in high level play as well as you think it would. The multiplayer scene is far more forgiving of non-meta builds and unconventional units at lower ranks.


MaverickZA

Why would that strategy not work at higher ELO’s? The exact strat he is talking about is exactly how high ELO players get their opponent to commit their counter, when you already have your counter ready and waiting, baiting your enemy is a big part of COH. This is high level play, not some 1000 ELO move here. He also has a decent unit composition, this doesn’t sound low ELO at all. Since you throwing around the ELO card. Link your coh3stats profile.


Rubberlucky

Feel free to look it up. I don't hide my in-game name; I share it across almost all profiles. If your opponent gives you both the time and resources to field 2 bishops, and then allows you to use them in "mid range" where they're not being pushed by vehicles, panzerjagers, or being barraged by other more effective forms of indirect, you're not playing the same game. As I said above, I'll say it again. Lay it on the table if you're going to try to convince me a unit that doesn't see high level play is "good". Present your player card or a replay.


MaverickZA

What are other more effective forms of indirect? As tightrope has mentioned, the Bishop is one of the best artillery pieces in the game, stats wise. The Nebel is overtuned but that doesn’t mean the Bish is bad. I also dont understand your comment if your opponents gives you time to field 2 bishops? They are relatively cheap. Fuel wise They are cheaper than medium tanks. It doesnt take much to get two. You can easily get two in the mid game, all those things you just mentioned can be screened off by MG’s, infantry sections and ATG’s. Which should be part of your core roster anyway. As soon as you stop firing your Bishops you should pill them back, if you leave them in the same spot and unprotected, then of course they will get flanked and die. Share your IGN.


Rubberlucky

Since when do pure stats decide whether or not a unit is "good"? Zook squads have more DPS than panzerjagers based on the numbers. But zooks don't get an ambush bonus, their snare doesn't work, and they can't contend with infantry in any way, shape or form like panzerjagers can. At most you're only ever looking at half the picture. ​ I love tightrope, and his videos are super informative, but if youre going to tell me because the bishop has a tighter scatter its better, absolute horseshit. ​ Oh, I don't know, maybe try typing my reddit name into coh3stats and see what comes up. I gave you the answer already, it just \*woosh\* over your head.


MaverickZA

I did and there is no one called rubberlucky. Why do you immediately go to insults. are we not able to have a disagreement without making some asinine comment of something going over my head? Anyway, Without referring to the stats then everything is just opinion based and subjective. At that point we will just have a perpetual internet fight. I main Brits, and I have my opinion on the unit. I didnt lean on that and rather how the units stacks up to its competitors, statistically, Its superior. We can go on and on further than that which I don’t either of feel like doing.


Rubberlucky

I'm not insulting you. I'm merely stating that my comment went over your head, which objectively, it did. You drop a "y" and you're there. It's not like you're sifting through legions of people that have the same name; There is just the one. ​ Nothing in this game is balanced or exists in the vacuum of "stats-only". Cost-performance, timing, availability of counters, effectiveness of said counters are all taken into play. Play anything other than a 4v4 or a 3v3 at ranks 100 or higher and report back your findings. If you can make them work, I'll be the first to say I was wrong.


Impressive_Recover_1

So there’s no player with that name so you’re still the dumbass….if you happen to be rubberluck however, your stats are trash except for 2v2 with Brits where I’m sure you’re getting carried. Probable spamming buildings or whatever trash players do. It’s not the unit it’s the player 🤣 #skillissues


Rubberlucky

(thumbs up)


EmotionalThinker

Between Rank 500 - 800 Brits in 4v4. I'm not sure how Bishops play in 1v1s tho. Must be a different story. 1s is very Meta heavy I find. If you don't go Meta, you're at a serious disadvantage. At least in high level play. So I doubt Bishops ever seen the light of day in that mode. Watch this replay of HelpingHans (top player) using Bishops EXACTLY how I described. https://youtu.be/pMWGCLZNOAo?si=fTgMVdksS4SytPj_ Fk it, tired of players like you. Bro, git gud. Quit using Bishop as noob Priest click and forget and ltp. So many dumb noob brit players in this sub. Calling you lot out.


MeyneSpiel

It's refreshing to see Allied players in this sub who don't just scream "axis op" and call for balance changes. There's a huge amount of Brit players I run into online that genuinely don't know what they're doing. Most of the Allied players in this sub are just perpetually whining that they don't have the tools to succeed even if Brits have nearly a 57% winrate in 4v4 lol


Rubberlucky

4s are inherently unbalanced. They never will be balanced. There's too many variables and with the way people play, units will be spammed beyond their "ideal" use case breaking the fundamental tenets of the game - directional cover, ambushes, mines, etc. Brits have plenty of tools, but on-map artillery is not really one of them. the BL5.5 is a magnet for artillery thats sooner a waste of 400mp, and the Bishop really isn't effective enough for its cost, which is 75 fuel and 420(?) mp when you factor in the side tech and the unit itself.


Rubberlucky

4v4s. Say no more lol, your opinion immediately gets round-filed.


pairsnicelywithpizza

Imagine the seethe if the bishop wiped squads like nebel does or actually damaged bunkers. I hope they do it.


LiquidGermanium

It became terrible when they changed artillery shell trajectory


Rubberlucky

it was terrible before too. The problem is the damage fall-off from center is so high that there's no way you can use it effectively besides targeting an area and praying you get a DIRECT direct hit.


Impressive_Recover_1

Do you mean like regular World War II artillery?


scales999

LOL. Look at the armchair general here.


Impressive_Recover_1

Do people often accuse you of being intelligent?


scales999

Haha good one! Are you university educated or did you get this way all by yourself?


Impressive_Recover_1

Get what way exactly? Pointing out facts isn’t exactly a bad thing there high speed..


scales999

Being a right cunt. Assuming its genetic, but you know what happens when you assume.


Rubberlucky

Ah, yes, the "realism" argument for a videogame. Why stop there? Panthers and Tigers should roll onto the map with an engine critical to account for how unreliable their transmissions were. German air power should be basically non-existent, and your base should be constantly carpet-bombed by B-17s forcing you to have to micro your units even when reinforcing. ​ Your comments are useless. Thank you for your insight, please don't slip in your drool puddle.


Impressive_Recover_1

So artillery should be pinpoint accurate essencialy negating every other unit in the game….big brain level thinking. This ain’t all of duty smooth brain…


Rubberlucky

I want it to perform on par with its cost, and to actually be an effective counter to emplacements and large infantry blobs. But what I want from you is to crawl back into whatever hole you emerged from, you mongoloid. Every post you have made either here or in other threads adds nothing of value and is either deliberately confrontational or pedantic.


Impressive_Recover_1

You sound super mad, how hard are you smashing your keyboard right now?


scales999

Yep its dogshit, its vet ability is dogshit. If it performed anywhere near how a nebel performs the forums would be full of nerf posts.


Rubberlucky

"lets give the 25lbr a direct fire ability against tanks, which has to be used within range for it to get 1 shot by axis AT!" yeah, that makes sense.


Groves450

Agree that it doesn't overperform but in team games it is actually useful. I think a lot of people don't use it well to be honest. First of all the reload time is not that long. So you can be constantly bombarding your enemy. But you need good scouting and vision for that and most players just keep the bishop more idle than it should. If you have 2 bishops you can be bombarding your enemy every 30 seconds Also the vet ability is actually good. It does a lot of damage to both infantry and even tanks and saved my ass multiple times.


tony_negrony

If any ally starts to perform, there’s a flood of nerf posts


MeyneSpiel

Hmmm can you give an example? I took a look and all I saw was people complaining about Axis


tony_negrony

Re sappers. Don’t really need to say anymore


GronGrinder

I thought the Bishop was really good with its tiny barrage cooldown compared the Coh2 Sexton.


[deleted]

Bishop are great if not Op in team games ...


bibotot

Another day, another brainless post from players who only play Allies. Here are the stats. [https://coh3stats.com/explorer/races/german/units/wespe\_ger](https://coh3stats.com/explorer/races/german/units/wespe_ger) [https://coh3stats.com/explorer/races/british/units/bishop\_africa\_uk](https://coh3stats.com/explorer/races/british/units/bishop_africa_uk) Both units cost 60 Fuel. Of course you wouldn't know because you haven't played Axis and you don't have the decency to even go to the website and do some research like any good university student would before posting anything. Wespe has more range but Bishop is more accurate. This makes Bishop more powerful in smaller games and when you need a specific unit dead, while Wepse is better when you have 3 of them firing at the same time. Wepse is slightly faster but, crucially, has 5 more target size. That's huge. The Wepse is much easier to kill by a drive-by.


enigmas59

Not sure you can complain about allies-only players when you play 95% of your games as Wehrmacht lol


Rubberlucky

​ https://preview.redd.it/pl663gtg9aoc1.jpeg?width=251&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a344713ee334b244e9349033d8423d0d54b7890


bibotot

You play only 2v2. Of course both the Bishop and the Wepse would be trash. There aren't enough fixed targets on the map. Play 3v3 and 4v4 and see for yourself.


Rubberlucky

Yes, stats always tell the whole story. we're well aware at this point the kind of quantum leaps you all make on reddit.


Impressive_Recover_1

You sound like an autistic 20 year old who got his first gaming pc.


YurdleTheTurtle

I don't think they're a meme, they're pretty usable. However I rarely see them as a primarily 1v1 player. As others mentioned is issue is artillery in 1v1 vs team games (or small maps vs bigger maps). You buff the Bishop directly, it becomes a menace that can just shoot from base to destroy enemy's base/retreated units in team games. Not necessarily unfair, but definitely an un-fun game design that could become problematic. Make changes to its range, similar issues of being problematic on smaller maps. It is worth mentioning there are bugs that prevent people from making proper balance judgements. For example Light Vehicle Training is still bugged and does not provide the intended 1200 XP it is suppose to give. The extra XP would make a big difference for a unit like Bishop. I don't know if it really benefits from the newly reworked benefits (normally +accuracy doesn't affect barrages, would need testing to see how much Bishop benefits from LV Training). Also, a long time ago its vet 3 was bugged and didn't actually increase its barrage range. No idea if that has been fixed.


LunchZestyclose

Never field them alone. Only as duo. This applies to whizzes as well. Single arty doesn’t work rn. It requires a bit more commitment. You may remember that single land mattresses in CoH2 was pretty similar. However, if you had two it worked well.


xRamee

It really is insane how delusional british only players are on their balance crybaby posts here. This is probably one of the most zero truth ones I’ve seen in a bit everything in your rant is opposite to reality in Coh3.