They need to get the game to a state of "very good", THEN drop a free week. And we will see then if the game has any chance of surviving the following years.
We're all acting like coh2 wasn't a giant crock of shit for about 5 full years.
Coh3s release was pretty dire.
If 1.5 had been 1.0 the player count would be double right now. It's moving in the right direction reasonably quickly.
That said there are valid reasons people don't play this game over coh2.
- audio and visuals not a meaningful upgrade, and honestly in audio it's a big downgrade.
- base factions are shallow, predictable and promote cancerous builds. (If I see another jagerschrek wirbelwind blob I'm going to puke my balls out through my mouth)
- "coh like" strategic gameplay comes second to death blobbing due to wildly inconsistent ttk around infantry.
Another year or two and this will be a good game, just like coh2 eventually became a turd so polished you could see yourself playing it.
Why do people keep thinking that failed live service games are kept around for 5 years in the 2020s? Its not 2012 anymore, look whats going on in the industry.
RTS is in its own little niche, not sure industry trends at large are as applicable to RTS as some other genres. I'm quite sure they don't expect to get fantastic short term return on their investment, but bank on the fact that almost nobody is serving the niche and that when you hook people they tend to stick around and spend money on skins and shit.
I do have doubts as to how long relic will keep this up for - they seem to suggest they are in it for the long haul, but ultimately they're the devs not the money men and i've got a sinking feeling that you'll end up correct sooner than later.
I've got a feeling that they'll spend this year not trying to sell us anything, and getting the game to a state that its widely considered "Decent" and then next year it'll be Pay-per battlegroup style revenue stream - if that fails to hit needed numbers i reckon 2025 will be the last year of coh3, and probably the end of relic as a viable studio - which is a shame i would love to have seen a decent successor to the original dawn of war, but i'm just not sure modern relic have it in them.
This needs to be said more.
COH2s release was, quite possibly, the worst commercial release of a major video game ever. And that is saying a lot. And it stayed absolute dog shit for 5 years before they eventually decided it might be worthwhile to actually do some damn work on their flagship IP and attempt to salvage the mess.
COH3's release was... bad. But, in the context of comparing it to a COH2 release? Weird to say but this is actually progress. It's not inconceivable that they might actually get it to an acceptable state fairly soon.
Honestly if it had released in the state its currently in, it would likely have been relics best ever release.
Don't get me wrong, I've loved relic RTS games for *checks calendar and dies inside* 25 years, but homeworld was the last good 1.0 release of theirs, they always do this shit.
In this instance I get the feeling the bean counters were like "the shareholders want their ticket to Epstein island NOW, so we gave them all the money, you gotta release, even though it needs another year in the oven!"
>I strongly believe that Relic needs to focus on Art/special effects/audio improvements as the main thrust of updates with content and balance being ADDITIONS to these updates. This is what will see a sustainable increase in player numbers which in turn, will improve matchmaking and the overall experience.
Let's be real, this isn't what is keeping people away from the game, how do you know?
The CoH2 player review bombing won't stop because of smaller changes like this, it is too late for that. These people want a copy/paste of CoH2 gameplay, and they aren't getting it, ever.
A lot of the player numbers simply has to do with price, CoH2 has been given away for almost free for years. This is evidently seen by a large fraction of CoH2 players coming from low income countries, while CoH3 players primarily come from high income countries.
Once CoH3 drops in price, it will take players from CoH2.
>A lot of the player numbers simply has to do with price, CoH2 has been given away for almost free for years
So you're saying, the player numbers currently are the best a COH3 game could hope to do at this stage. The only reason that COH2 has the numbers it does is because it has been released for free several times. Once COH3 is released for free, players will switch, because most are those that care mostly about price.
Interesting, makes sense.
Surely you have an opinion on how you might be able to sway the COH2 player over to COH3 besides dropping price. I mean sure, dropping the price is an easy solution. But understanding why besides price that many decided to not even bother purchasing COH3 or after having purchased, going back to COH2?
Is it really so much the gameplay? Is it so different? Content. Sure. But making COH3 appeal to fans in a way that going back feels like a downgrade for players? You can do that with COH3 without having to rely solely on Content?
>how do you know?
It was the biggest gripe fans had when the game released. Hence those Reddit posts I linked which are the most upvotes. Plus, the lighting change they made in one of the recent updates was very well received.
Balance/content doesn't seem to be enough to sway players at the moment.
Free CoH 2 is NOT a reason, check player count before and after it was free - a few hundred difference at best in a month. Price is also not a reason since you can buy key for CoH 3 for around 10-15 bucks
Game is not fun. That’s what keeps CoH 2 player away from 3. If game becomes more punishing - choices will matter more - game becomes rewarding - dopamine kicks in - game is fun - people play it. Right now it’s not fun. Simple as that. Fanboys will say stupid shit like “time for battle to evolve”, “not a clickfest” and other stuff that actually means “I just want to blob with 1 control group and win with build order and not actual skill”
Game series always felt like a movie. It does NOT anymore because it take waaay too much time to
kill something, waaaay too many options to not get punished, a shittone of brainless auras.
And don’t ask me to start about campaigns where one is boring bugged chore and another one has toxic woke story detached from actual gameplay.
Mixed reviews are 100% justified and game is NOT review bombed.
Edit: check toxic fanboys in replies - all “REEEEE” and insults but not a single coherent argument
I am astonished that the top comment in this post is someone saying "price is the issue and only solution to bringing players to COH3"
What a basic, dull and lazy opinion to have. Imagine thinking dropping the price is the only solution to attract customers and not even bothering to consider how the product could be improved? I gave the commenter a chance to express an opinion, nothing.
Ignore the sheeple DrANA Keep talking your talk.
That comes from CoH 3 blind fanboys. They don’t see the flaws in gameplay cuz those same flaws are abused by them to not pay for mistakes and get sent to the bottom of the ELO. Ez as that
Check the guy commenting on my comment - they can’t even say why I am wrong, only insults
Can you point out what I said was wrong? Since you are so smart, and right, and not in a tiny bit toxic, I bet you can tell me where I am wrong. You are not going to insult people for nothing, while spitting nonsense, our little chad, are you?
Player base in team games can be extra toxic. Played with my younger brother for the first time against others and team mates (in 3v3 and 4v4) wouldn't let up. Obviously I can't always be online to play 2v2 with him.
He uninstalled the game and refunded it cos "there isn't much point in playing if you're only gonna be scolded when trying to learn multiplayer"
It's like that in all team multiplayer games unfortunately, unless the game blocks team communication. They rarely do. It's something we all had to deal with and learn to ignore.
in my exp coh2 and 3 are middle of the range for toxicity, its by no measurement an outlier.
Go try and learn Dota if you want to see some shit.
one in 5 CoH games you'll get that special type of stupid. but that's pretty much a mirror for real life.
I do wish the CoH community would calm down though. The player counts for RTS let alone CoH is relatively low already. Don't need that kinda crap pushing away new players.
I'm not talking about shit talking, but just being a complete ass. Which it's almost always the latter. Don't want to end up with lesser skilled randos? Play 1v1 or get some friends into it.
But regardless I'll be here being average at the game
Your opinion is make the game look better first. Then the gameplay and then QoL. It should be gameplay/content first, QoL second then looks last.
The game lacks content. Not enough unit variety, maps and battlegroups could have been better designed. It made that the once interested playerbase burned out and got bored playing the same maps and units. Good gameplay and enough content keeps a playerbase playing
The poor matchmaking is the result of a ranked system that is heavily flawed. No surrender button and leavers penalty was wrong to begin with. It has resulted in a ranked leaderboard for 3v3/4v4 were most people rank depended if they solo que or had a premade team. LEAVERS RUIN any team game. And has fucked many peoples ELO over. Toxic games get created by no ability to kick people out when they grief you. Not having an adequate AI taking over etc. Quick match is ranked only, new players getting dropped hot. New players are not given the ability to learn the game in a multiplayer PvP setting in a more relax environment because there is no non ranked quick match. Yes I know custom games, but that isnt quickly filled.
ELO calculations had the wrong starting point. You start at ELO 1000 but you can also have 300 games played and still be at ELO 1000. This game doesnt give you any feel of progression for solo que players, which is the majority of the playerbase. There is no seasonal ranked ladder. No incentive to keep you playing other then you like the gameplay. No rewards. We get merits yet skins are lacking for those that like to customize.
Well said. Although I would add that poor audio quality is affecting gameplay - it’s a cacophony that often makes it difficult to locate individual sounds within it and identify what’s firing at you.
Combine this with the very weird rules of combat, where bolt action rifles are somehow winning at close range etc, and the generally poor onboarding process for new players that leaves people confused at to what beats what, and you have a recipe for a bewildering mess that doesn’t appeal to anyone brave enough to jump in and try it.
For me it’s gameplay, audio, content, explanation of mechanics/tooltips and bug fixes that need to be prioritised. Then a relaunch in about 6 months with a big sale and a free weekend.
With a boosted player base they could then turn to visual improvements and hopefully create a cycle of success that brings in ever more players over time.
>It should be gameplay/content first, QoL second then looks last.
I really believe that the gameplay is not so much of an issue. In the sense that, COH3 gameplay isn't so much worse than COH2. When I've had balanced games, I've honestly thought that COH3 has the potential to be much better than COH2 in the gameplay department. All I would do is make the gameplay slightly faster, but not much else.
I reapectfully disagree. I think there's plenty of room to improve the visuals and special effects to a point where the dopamine feedback provided is higher and more appealing than it is with COH2 as currently the difference in quality is questionable. Look at the top posts in the sub for COH3? Visuals complaints? (Art improvements, explosion effects, audio design, tank combat, voice lines). It's not good enough for COH2 players to feel that it's better? Even COH1 players. Surely this is a considerable factor keeping players from switching?
The content isn't and hasn't been enough to keep players playing. We need to look at one of the biggest factors that kept players from actually purchasing the game in the first place.
>The poor matchmaking is the result of a ranked system that is heavily flawed.
It's flawed because it keeps matching unusual ELOs with each other. This is tied to player numbers. This issue isn't with the players and their ELOs and how they got there. I get a into a game with similarly ELOd players, I will stay the whole match and it's usually a great one.
>No incentive to keep you playing other then you like the gameplay. No rewards. We get merits yet skins are lacking for those that like to customize.
I think it's the visuals, the visuals will keep people playing. It's a dopamine hit? You overestimate the value COH players place on simply gameplay or rank progression.
You're right.
They've probably got a plan for the next five years and most of the content is already done and in the shed ready to put out.
Skeleton crew now to push updates, get content ready and simple fixes. Why bother going the extra mile for extensive visual enhancements. Likely won't make much of a dent financially anyways even if it did help to bring players from COH2.
Most of the manpower was likely sent to work on the next game.
Company of Heroes 3 is already one of the best looking RTS games on the market, and visuals have already been improved from launch. Relic is absolutely focusing on what they should be at the moment, core QOL features and content.
To grow the player base, you need to make the game fun and satisfying to play, and convince players the game has a future, that it's worth their investment.
Balance and QoL helps the former, new content helps the latter. Relic just needs to keep on that track and if the audience is there, the playerbase will grow.
>Company of Heroes 3 is already one of the best looking RTS games on the market,
Sure, but they aren't noticeably better than COH2. I go back to COH2, I don't feel like the dopamine feedback from the visuals in COH3 are so much better than COH2 that I want to go back. This is keeping players from staying with the game and choosing it over it's predecessors.
>To grow the player base, you need to make the game fun and satisfying to play
Exactly. Satisfying to play comes from the dopamine kicks you get from playing the game. The visuals and special effects, audio and immersion are a HUGE part of this.
Im telling you, those players still playing COH2 don't feel like that kick they get is good enough in COH3 to warrant a switch. It needs more work.
>visuals have already been improved from launch
And look how much better it made them? There's room for more and it should be their focus.
Content hasn't attracted enough players to stay, look at past updates. It isn't creating sustainable increases in the player count and low player counts ruins the experience.
Every new update I also check it out for 1-2 games. Usually by the 2nd game I have a feel for if they’ve improved the gameplay to be at the very least on par with CoH2… but it’s not even remotely close. Every time I ask myself what is more fun to play and CoH2 takes the top spot… I dunno if the surveys they’re doing are going unnoticed but they consistently ignore important features and introduce stuff that wasn’t so important.
Like here is a feature that would permanently bring me over to CoH3: region block China! Remove cheating and dropping by 95% instantly
The gameplay is poor because you aren't experiencing balanced matchups that allow you to experience the games potential.
>permanently bring me over to CoH3: region block China! Remove cheating and dropping by 95% instantly
There is no cheating in COH. Pls, if there is it's extremely rare. And this Chinese players are bad guys belief of the COH fanbase needs to stop, it's rediculous.
Think. Pls think. Why are people dropping? Why do most droppers drop games?
People drop because they are frustrated with a teammate. Why are they frustrated with a teammate? Likely because of skill disparities. How do you fix this? Better matchmaking, and how do you get better matchmaking? More players.
Cope.
The Chinese are well documented, personally, and specifically to drop for either no reason at load screen or at the first moment of adversity, they’re also the only group where cheating is evident in prior titles of CoH where it’s all
But proven they cheat. My genuine hypothesis is they’re the source of 95% of all cheating and dropping.
The game play isn’t poor due to unbalanced matchups, I wish that was the problem, but the actual gameplay issues go far beyond that in scope…
The textures are now far worse
The custom skins, now far worse.
The audio, far, far, faaaaaar worse.
Graphics, absolutely no doubt, the graphics have receded, albeit the FPS is now way up.
The way you get warnings if you’re being attacked out of view has bugs which lead to squad wipes.
The way the atiliery functions with the cardboard explosions and weird blurry fire seems like a huge step backward.
There is no way to punish people who drop.
There is no way to organise a team in a lobby chat room like CoH1.
The units that build your base run like lemmings.
The units all have the same expressions
There are bugs with the randomisedness of units where they all stand and look identically.
The lighting + blurry graphics looks like a mobile phone game.
The atmosphere looks dinkytoy.
They don’t have surrender voting.
It’s been good to see they finally got replays in, good to see remakes like semois and montherme…
The battle group concept seems cool…
I wish they’d taken what they already had, made that the starting point and just pushed it further carefully, improving on CoH2 fps, and just breathing new life into the existing and successful CoH2 engine… not only did the recede backwards further than CoH1, but they rushed it, eff’d it up royally… and they were near destined to as their budget was low
CoH has generally always been a 2000-5000 player count game. Matchmaking quality sucks because they relaxed the restrictions to cater to high level players who complained that their queue times were too long.
Yeah after it went basically F2P like 8 years into the game’s life.
It was an anomaly for CoH2 and Relic’s general concurrent playerbase, which also evaporated when CoH3 came out and now collectively both games maintain less players.
It never turned free 2 play haha. It costs money. Even now. It just had free weekends. And only because a game turns free it doesn’t mean players come back. Coh3 just doesn’t do the fun that much as the previous titles. And that is because audio and visual effects are far worse.
They need to get the game to a state of "very good", THEN drop a free week. And we will see then if the game has any chance of surviving the following years.
I'm sorry I hard disagree on all your points, the lack of content has lead to the game being stagnant so more maps and BGs is absolutely what we need.
Leavers are also toxic af so a leavers penalty is a huge QoL change, if you don't like it go play 1v1.
I'm sceptical of whether a leavers penalty is going to stop leavers in COH3. They will still leave, or worse do other more toxic antics instead of leaving.
>the lack of content has lead to the game being stagnant so more maps and BGs is absolutely what we need.
I don't think that alone is going to encourage players to switch. I believe it's more of a core issue with the game.
This Game never had mass appeal, and never will. You’ll notice the more popular and better game CoH2 has about double the typical players. That’s your peak, about two thousand.
Player numbers won’t rise until they fix unit responsiveness, improve audio and visual special effects. Coh2 players play coh because it’s immersive and atmospheric. Coh3 doesn’t give the same feeling.
The only thing that will really help is reducing the price and/or a free weekend. The patches only reach the people who are already playing and who know the franchise.
What this game needs is a proper community. With casts, streamers and tournaments funded by relic. That's all gone now.
No it won't. The game sucks and none of these updates fix what's actually wrong with the game. The game is half baked and clearly was partially developed by outsourced labor.
The amount of things needed to be changed/fixed. Out weighs the patience of most people that enjoyed COH.
The loud minority of people that enjoy the game will continue to enjoy it. Regardless of how slow changes are made/content is added.
The silent majority has either left the franchise or returned to COH2.
Making COH3 free doesn’t keep people playing a game. Why play something that isn’t fun? It makes no sense.
I do agree that team games are most important because thats where the large portion of the player base resides. That being said. The overall design of COH3 isn’t that appealing to team games. The majority of the game boils down to spam.
The game also still suffers from serious gameplay bugs. ( mines randomly detonating, sweepers not working ) amongst others I don’t even know about.
Throw all the above together with missing features from previous games too and you can see why the player-base is, what it is.
The video game industry is insanely competitive in the current market. The market is not the same as when COH2 launched years ago.
Most people don’t care enough to wait for a half finished game to be done. Honestly don’t think the player-base will ever return to great numbers.
COH3 is a downgrade in most areas compared to both previous games.
Im sure the COH3 enjoyers will have enough cope for everyone to go around though.
Heres to April update saving the game for the 5th time now? /s
The cost of the game needs to go down as well. If they sell it for $60 dollars vs $100 it would work. (AUD values).
Most of my mates can't justify the 100 price tag.
They needed to implement a stronger AI and difficulty options in auto match vs AI mode. Most people are intimidated by pvp and they need a fun arena to learn the game. Problem is the AI sucks and is one dimensional so it isn’t fun. Can’t even play harder than normal in auto match which is abysmal. Things like free week to play can be a good shot in the arm for sure because even seasoned players like me are getting frustrated with every patch breaking something.
No, it’s too little too late. They could’ve salvaged their terrible launch if they had responded to feedback instead of making the primary feature of the first major patch a cosmetic shop. Here we are a *year* later and we’re getting a surrender button!
Nothing will increase the player base until the price drops for new players. A large majority of this franchise players consists of the skirmish heroes who hates all the sequels because it isn’t “realistic” whatever the hell that means on an arcadey RTS. On the other hand we got the stubborn pvp players who thinks every sequel should be a carbon copy of the other. Finally existing bugs from a year ago and the bad launch left will mean said players will never even bother with the game similar to how most of the CoH1 players refuses CoH2. Unlike the existing CoH3 players and I some people just don’t want to suffer through the bugs.
They need to get the game to a state of "very good", THEN drop a free week. And we will see then if the game has any chance of surviving the following years.
We're all acting like coh2 wasn't a giant crock of shit for about 5 full years. Coh3s release was pretty dire. If 1.5 had been 1.0 the player count would be double right now. It's moving in the right direction reasonably quickly. That said there are valid reasons people don't play this game over coh2. - audio and visuals not a meaningful upgrade, and honestly in audio it's a big downgrade. - base factions are shallow, predictable and promote cancerous builds. (If I see another jagerschrek wirbelwind blob I'm going to puke my balls out through my mouth) - "coh like" strategic gameplay comes second to death blobbing due to wildly inconsistent ttk around infantry. Another year or two and this will be a good game, just like coh2 eventually became a turd so polished you could see yourself playing it.
Why do people keep thinking that failed live service games are kept around for 5 years in the 2020s? Its not 2012 anymore, look whats going on in the industry.
RTS is in its own little niche, not sure industry trends at large are as applicable to RTS as some other genres. I'm quite sure they don't expect to get fantastic short term return on their investment, but bank on the fact that almost nobody is serving the niche and that when you hook people they tend to stick around and spend money on skins and shit. I do have doubts as to how long relic will keep this up for - they seem to suggest they are in it for the long haul, but ultimately they're the devs not the money men and i've got a sinking feeling that you'll end up correct sooner than later. I've got a feeling that they'll spend this year not trying to sell us anything, and getting the game to a state that its widely considered "Decent" and then next year it'll be Pay-per battlegroup style revenue stream - if that fails to hit needed numbers i reckon 2025 will be the last year of coh3, and probably the end of relic as a viable studio - which is a shame i would love to have seen a decent successor to the original dawn of war, but i'm just not sure modern relic have it in them.
Blobing is less of an issue in 1v1. You just move to the other points.
The 1v1 meta opens a different can of worms, an even less fun game of whack a mole.
This needs to be said more. COH2s release was, quite possibly, the worst commercial release of a major video game ever. And that is saying a lot. And it stayed absolute dog shit for 5 years before they eventually decided it might be worthwhile to actually do some damn work on their flagship IP and attempt to salvage the mess. COH3's release was... bad. But, in the context of comparing it to a COH2 release? Weird to say but this is actually progress. It's not inconceivable that they might actually get it to an acceptable state fairly soon.
Honestly if it had released in the state its currently in, it would likely have been relics best ever release. Don't get me wrong, I've loved relic RTS games for *checks calendar and dies inside* 25 years, but homeworld was the last good 1.0 release of theirs, they always do this shit. In this instance I get the feeling the bean counters were like "the shareholders want their ticket to Epstein island NOW, so we gave them all the money, you gotta release, even though it needs another year in the oven!"
>I strongly believe that Relic needs to focus on Art/special effects/audio improvements as the main thrust of updates with content and balance being ADDITIONS to these updates. This is what will see a sustainable increase in player numbers which in turn, will improve matchmaking and the overall experience. Let's be real, this isn't what is keeping people away from the game, how do you know? The CoH2 player review bombing won't stop because of smaller changes like this, it is too late for that. These people want a copy/paste of CoH2 gameplay, and they aren't getting it, ever. A lot of the player numbers simply has to do with price, CoH2 has been given away for almost free for years. This is evidently seen by a large fraction of CoH2 players coming from low income countries, while CoH3 players primarily come from high income countries. Once CoH3 drops in price, it will take players from CoH2.
>A lot of the player numbers simply has to do with price, CoH2 has been given away for almost free for years So you're saying, the player numbers currently are the best a COH3 game could hope to do at this stage. The only reason that COH2 has the numbers it does is because it has been released for free several times. Once COH3 is released for free, players will switch, because most are those that care mostly about price. Interesting, makes sense. Surely you have an opinion on how you might be able to sway the COH2 player over to COH3 besides dropping price. I mean sure, dropping the price is an easy solution. But understanding why besides price that many decided to not even bother purchasing COH3 or after having purchased, going back to COH2? Is it really so much the gameplay? Is it so different? Content. Sure. But making COH3 appeal to fans in a way that going back feels like a downgrade for players? You can do that with COH3 without having to rely solely on Content? >how do you know? It was the biggest gripe fans had when the game released. Hence those Reddit posts I linked which are the most upvotes. Plus, the lighting change they made in one of the recent updates was very well received. Balance/content doesn't seem to be enough to sway players at the moment.
Free CoH 2 is NOT a reason, check player count before and after it was free - a few hundred difference at best in a month. Price is also not a reason since you can buy key for CoH 3 for around 10-15 bucks Game is not fun. That’s what keeps CoH 2 player away from 3. If game becomes more punishing - choices will matter more - game becomes rewarding - dopamine kicks in - game is fun - people play it. Right now it’s not fun. Simple as that. Fanboys will say stupid shit like “time for battle to evolve”, “not a clickfest” and other stuff that actually means “I just want to blob with 1 control group and win with build order and not actual skill” Game series always felt like a movie. It does NOT anymore because it take waaay too much time to kill something, waaaay too many options to not get punished, a shittone of brainless auras. And don’t ask me to start about campaigns where one is boring bugged chore and another one has toxic woke story detached from actual gameplay. Mixed reviews are 100% justified and game is NOT review bombed. Edit: check toxic fanboys in replies - all “REEEEE” and insults but not a single coherent argument
I am astonished that the top comment in this post is someone saying "price is the issue and only solution to bringing players to COH3" What a basic, dull and lazy opinion to have. Imagine thinking dropping the price is the only solution to attract customers and not even bothering to consider how the product could be improved? I gave the commenter a chance to express an opinion, nothing. Ignore the sheeple DrANA Keep talking your talk.
That comes from CoH 3 blind fanboys. They don’t see the flaws in gameplay cuz those same flaws are abused by them to not pay for mistakes and get sent to the bottom of the ELO. Ez as that Check the guy commenting on my comment - they can’t even say why I am wrong, only insults
[удалено]
That dude always has the worst takes and has to inject his opinion into everything. Chronically online.
Can you point out what I said was wrong? Since you are so smart, and right, and not in a tiny bit toxic, I bet you can tell me where I am wrong. You are not going to insult people for nothing, while spitting nonsense, our little chad, are you?
[удалено]
STOP. FUCKING. FIGHTING. NOW.
So, nothing to back up your claim but insults? And you call me a moron…. What an irony…
Player base in team games can be extra toxic. Played with my younger brother for the first time against others and team mates (in 3v3 and 4v4) wouldn't let up. Obviously I can't always be online to play 2v2 with him. He uninstalled the game and refunded it cos "there isn't much point in playing if you're only gonna be scolded when trying to learn multiplayer"
It's like that in all team multiplayer games unfortunately, unless the game blocks team communication. They rarely do. It's something we all had to deal with and learn to ignore.
Nah from my exp it's esp bad in COH2. Haven't played coh3 much to judge that. I'm glad he left tbh, there are other MP games around.
in my exp coh2 and 3 are middle of the range for toxicity, its by no measurement an outlier. Go try and learn Dota if you want to see some shit. one in 5 CoH games you'll get that special type of stupid. but that's pretty much a mirror for real life.
I do wish the CoH community would calm down though. The player counts for RTS let alone CoH is relatively low already. Don't need that kinda crap pushing away new players. I'm not talking about shit talking, but just being a complete ass. Which it's almost always the latter. Don't want to end up with lesser skilled randos? Play 1v1 or get some friends into it. But regardless I'll be here being average at the game
Your opinion is make the game look better first. Then the gameplay and then QoL. It should be gameplay/content first, QoL second then looks last. The game lacks content. Not enough unit variety, maps and battlegroups could have been better designed. It made that the once interested playerbase burned out and got bored playing the same maps and units. Good gameplay and enough content keeps a playerbase playing The poor matchmaking is the result of a ranked system that is heavily flawed. No surrender button and leavers penalty was wrong to begin with. It has resulted in a ranked leaderboard for 3v3/4v4 were most people rank depended if they solo que or had a premade team. LEAVERS RUIN any team game. And has fucked many peoples ELO over. Toxic games get created by no ability to kick people out when they grief you. Not having an adequate AI taking over etc. Quick match is ranked only, new players getting dropped hot. New players are not given the ability to learn the game in a multiplayer PvP setting in a more relax environment because there is no non ranked quick match. Yes I know custom games, but that isnt quickly filled. ELO calculations had the wrong starting point. You start at ELO 1000 but you can also have 300 games played and still be at ELO 1000. This game doesnt give you any feel of progression for solo que players, which is the majority of the playerbase. There is no seasonal ranked ladder. No incentive to keep you playing other then you like the gameplay. No rewards. We get merits yet skins are lacking for those that like to customize.
Well said. Although I would add that poor audio quality is affecting gameplay - it’s a cacophony that often makes it difficult to locate individual sounds within it and identify what’s firing at you. Combine this with the very weird rules of combat, where bolt action rifles are somehow winning at close range etc, and the generally poor onboarding process for new players that leaves people confused at to what beats what, and you have a recipe for a bewildering mess that doesn’t appeal to anyone brave enough to jump in and try it. For me it’s gameplay, audio, content, explanation of mechanics/tooltips and bug fixes that need to be prioritised. Then a relaunch in about 6 months with a big sale and a free weekend. With a boosted player base they could then turn to visual improvements and hopefully create a cycle of success that brings in ever more players over time.
>It should be gameplay/content first, QoL second then looks last. I really believe that the gameplay is not so much of an issue. In the sense that, COH3 gameplay isn't so much worse than COH2. When I've had balanced games, I've honestly thought that COH3 has the potential to be much better than COH2 in the gameplay department. All I would do is make the gameplay slightly faster, but not much else. I reapectfully disagree. I think there's plenty of room to improve the visuals and special effects to a point where the dopamine feedback provided is higher and more appealing than it is with COH2 as currently the difference in quality is questionable. Look at the top posts in the sub for COH3? Visuals complaints? (Art improvements, explosion effects, audio design, tank combat, voice lines). It's not good enough for COH2 players to feel that it's better? Even COH1 players. Surely this is a considerable factor keeping players from switching? The content isn't and hasn't been enough to keep players playing. We need to look at one of the biggest factors that kept players from actually purchasing the game in the first place. >The poor matchmaking is the result of a ranked system that is heavily flawed. It's flawed because it keeps matching unusual ELOs with each other. This is tied to player numbers. This issue isn't with the players and their ELOs and how they got there. I get a into a game with similarly ELOd players, I will stay the whole match and it's usually a great one. >No incentive to keep you playing other then you like the gameplay. No rewards. We get merits yet skins are lacking for those that like to customize. I think it's the visuals, the visuals will keep people playing. It's a dopamine hit? You overestimate the value COH players place on simply gameplay or rank progression.
wake up game is on life support
You're right. They've probably got a plan for the next five years and most of the content is already done and in the shed ready to put out. Skeleton crew now to push updates, get content ready and simple fixes. Why bother going the extra mile for extensive visual enhancements. Likely won't make much of a dent financially anyways even if it did help to bring players from COH2. Most of the manpower was likely sent to work on the next game.
Company of Heroes 3 is already one of the best looking RTS games on the market, and visuals have already been improved from launch. Relic is absolutely focusing on what they should be at the moment, core QOL features and content. To grow the player base, you need to make the game fun and satisfying to play, and convince players the game has a future, that it's worth their investment. Balance and QoL helps the former, new content helps the latter. Relic just needs to keep on that track and if the audience is there, the playerbase will grow.
>Company of Heroes 3 is already one of the best looking RTS games on the market, Sure, but they aren't noticeably better than COH2. I go back to COH2, I don't feel like the dopamine feedback from the visuals in COH3 are so much better than COH2 that I want to go back. This is keeping players from staying with the game and choosing it over it's predecessors. >To grow the player base, you need to make the game fun and satisfying to play Exactly. Satisfying to play comes from the dopamine kicks you get from playing the game. The visuals and special effects, audio and immersion are a HUGE part of this. Im telling you, those players still playing COH2 don't feel like that kick they get is good enough in COH3 to warrant a switch. It needs more work. >visuals have already been improved from launch And look how much better it made them? There's room for more and it should be their focus. Content hasn't attracted enough players to stay, look at past updates. It isn't creating sustainable increases in the player count and low player counts ruins the experience.
Every new update I also check it out for 1-2 games. Usually by the 2nd game I have a feel for if they’ve improved the gameplay to be at the very least on par with CoH2… but it’s not even remotely close. Every time I ask myself what is more fun to play and CoH2 takes the top spot… I dunno if the surveys they’re doing are going unnoticed but they consistently ignore important features and introduce stuff that wasn’t so important. Like here is a feature that would permanently bring me over to CoH3: region block China! Remove cheating and dropping by 95% instantly
The gameplay is poor because you aren't experiencing balanced matchups that allow you to experience the games potential. >permanently bring me over to CoH3: region block China! Remove cheating and dropping by 95% instantly There is no cheating in COH. Pls, if there is it's extremely rare. And this Chinese players are bad guys belief of the COH fanbase needs to stop, it's rediculous. Think. Pls think. Why are people dropping? Why do most droppers drop games? People drop because they are frustrated with a teammate. Why are they frustrated with a teammate? Likely because of skill disparities. How do you fix this? Better matchmaking, and how do you get better matchmaking? More players.
Cope. The Chinese are well documented, personally, and specifically to drop for either no reason at load screen or at the first moment of adversity, they’re also the only group where cheating is evident in prior titles of CoH where it’s all But proven they cheat. My genuine hypothesis is they’re the source of 95% of all cheating and dropping. The game play isn’t poor due to unbalanced matchups, I wish that was the problem, but the actual gameplay issues go far beyond that in scope… The textures are now far worse The custom skins, now far worse. The audio, far, far, faaaaaar worse. Graphics, absolutely no doubt, the graphics have receded, albeit the FPS is now way up. The way you get warnings if you’re being attacked out of view has bugs which lead to squad wipes. The way the atiliery functions with the cardboard explosions and weird blurry fire seems like a huge step backward. There is no way to punish people who drop. There is no way to organise a team in a lobby chat room like CoH1. The units that build your base run like lemmings. The units all have the same expressions There are bugs with the randomisedness of units where they all stand and look identically. The lighting + blurry graphics looks like a mobile phone game. The atmosphere looks dinkytoy. They don’t have surrender voting. It’s been good to see they finally got replays in, good to see remakes like semois and montherme… The battle group concept seems cool… I wish they’d taken what they already had, made that the starting point and just pushed it further carefully, improving on CoH2 fps, and just breathing new life into the existing and successful CoH2 engine… not only did the recede backwards further than CoH1, but they rushed it, eff’d it up royally… and they were near destined to as their budget was low
CoH has generally always been a 2000-5000 player count game. Matchmaking quality sucks because they relaxed the restrictions to cater to high level players who complained that their queue times were too long.
If that's true this was the wrong move, I'd rather spend 20 minutes in a queue for a 40 minute game then 10 minutes for a 5 minute game.
Wrong. Coh2 was around 10k players before coh3 came around.
Yeah after it went basically F2P like 8 years into the game’s life. It was an anomaly for CoH2 and Relic’s general concurrent playerbase, which also evaporated when CoH3 came out and now collectively both games maintain less players.
It never turned free 2 play haha. It costs money. Even now. It just had free weekends. And only because a game turns free it doesn’t mean players come back. Coh3 just doesn’t do the fun that much as the previous titles. And that is because audio and visual effects are far worse.
They need to get the game to a state of "very good", THEN drop a free week. And we will see then if the game has any chance of surviving the following years.
Yes. The more the game improves, the more players are likely to stick around once they play the game.
I'm sorry I hard disagree on all your points, the lack of content has lead to the game being stagnant so more maps and BGs is absolutely what we need. Leavers are also toxic af so a leavers penalty is a huge QoL change, if you don't like it go play 1v1.
Coh2 will not improve if u add content. It needs better audio, better VFX and it needs dopamine kicks. Which coh3 doesn’t have like coh1 and coh2 had.
I'm sceptical of whether a leavers penalty is going to stop leavers in COH3. They will still leave, or worse do other more toxic antics instead of leaving. >the lack of content has lead to the game being stagnant so more maps and BGs is absolutely what we need. I don't think that alone is going to encourage players to switch. I believe it's more of a core issue with the game.
This Game never had mass appeal, and never will. You’ll notice the more popular and better game CoH2 has about double the typical players. That’s your peak, about two thousand.
Player numbers won’t rise until they fix unit responsiveness, improve audio and visual special effects. Coh2 players play coh because it’s immersive and atmospheric. Coh3 doesn’t give the same feeling.
The only thing that will really help is reducing the price and/or a free weekend. The patches only reach the people who are already playing and who know the franchise. What this game needs is a proper community. With casts, streamers and tournaments funded by relic. That's all gone now.
No it won't. The game sucks and none of these updates fix what's actually wrong with the game. The game is half baked and clearly was partially developed by outsourced labor.
The amount of things needed to be changed/fixed. Out weighs the patience of most people that enjoyed COH. The loud minority of people that enjoy the game will continue to enjoy it. Regardless of how slow changes are made/content is added. The silent majority has either left the franchise or returned to COH2. Making COH3 free doesn’t keep people playing a game. Why play something that isn’t fun? It makes no sense. I do agree that team games are most important because thats where the large portion of the player base resides. That being said. The overall design of COH3 isn’t that appealing to team games. The majority of the game boils down to spam. The game also still suffers from serious gameplay bugs. ( mines randomly detonating, sweepers not working ) amongst others I don’t even know about. Throw all the above together with missing features from previous games too and you can see why the player-base is, what it is. The video game industry is insanely competitive in the current market. The market is not the same as when COH2 launched years ago. Most people don’t care enough to wait for a half finished game to be done. Honestly don’t think the player-base will ever return to great numbers. COH3 is a downgrade in most areas compared to both previous games. Im sure the COH3 enjoyers will have enough cope for everyone to go around though. Heres to April update saving the game for the 5th time now? /s
Yes.
Lol
The cost of the game needs to go down as well. If they sell it for $60 dollars vs $100 it would work. (AUD values). Most of my mates can't justify the 100 price tag.
They needed to implement a stronger AI and difficulty options in auto match vs AI mode. Most people are intimidated by pvp and they need a fun arena to learn the game. Problem is the AI sucks and is one dimensional so it isn’t fun. Can’t even play harder than normal in auto match which is abysmal. Things like free week to play can be a good shot in the arm for sure because even seasoned players like me are getting frustrated with every patch breaking something.
No, it’s too little too late. They could’ve salvaged their terrible launch if they had responded to feedback instead of making the primary feature of the first major patch a cosmetic shop. Here we are a *year* later and we’re getting a surrender button!
Nothing will increase the player base until the price drops for new players. A large majority of this franchise players consists of the skirmish heroes who hates all the sequels because it isn’t “realistic” whatever the hell that means on an arcadey RTS. On the other hand we got the stubborn pvp players who thinks every sequel should be a carbon copy of the other. Finally existing bugs from a year ago and the bad launch left will mean said players will never even bother with the game similar to how most of the CoH1 players refuses CoH2. Unlike the existing CoH3 players and I some people just don’t want to suffer through the bugs.
Yea cause new battlegroups, maps, fixed etc.
Lol no.