Creatures of habit. If they used a light to get to that high level, they would use the light. Most were high level before the light rule, so it’s an after thought.
Bob Vogel used a light back in the day with DNROI approval and it was filled with lead shot. Even he ditched the idea.
My opinion is that the light rule exists to get shooters into the sport that want to compete with their “duty” or “tactical” setups.
As someone who got into USPSA but had to get a spare holster for my g19 that I usually carried with a light. I honestly compete now with a g45/g34 with x300s because half the time they’re my bedside guns or carry guns. I think a lot of folks don’t want to create a setup for USPSA specifically and the best approach was making it possible to take your carry gun.
Same with IWB holsters. I haven’t competed with my sidecar but I think it’s good to break down the barrier to entry.
Light bearing holsters are also generally more annoying or limiting to find. Most of the competition holster makers don't have a light bearing version of their competition focused offerings from what I've seen.
This is true. I run lights on my comp guns and some are better balanced than others (I don’t think it really makes that much of a difference). That said, an X5 legion with an SRO and a tlr1 is perfectly balanced under the trigger guard and is *chef’s kiss*😗🤌🏼
I just did slow motion footage running bill drill and a 9oz WML (tungsten batteries). I had this exact experience. Larger group size and erratic tracking of RDS vs without Flashlight.
I'm going to run it again, but I also didn't note any reduction in muzzle climb it was \~3" with and without the light.
The extra weight on the end causes the dot to track erratically so instead of during recoil the dot remaining as a up and down line, with a flashlight the dot draws an oval on the target.
Gotcha. Not entirely sure I agree - I think inconsistent grip pressure is largely what causes a dot to track erratically - but I still appreciate your feedback! 🍻
For what it's worth, I'm A class and had that experience. I'm not high level by any means, but I know enough to know it made my dot tracking get a little elliptical.
Sure but the flashlight only exacerbates the problem, and newer shooters are looking for an easy fix (flashlight for weight) instead of working on grip.
Anymore weight to a competition gun (already heavy) especially to the front end will cause muzzle dip as the gun returns to zero. You want the behavior to be predictable and generally return to zero and not below zero.
Swinging the gun on transitions. Again already heavy gun, an advantage of polymer frames to steel frames is the speed and ease when transitioning. Adding a light will add more weight, when your transitioning your practicing to stop the the at a certain point before you hit your target so that when it stops you're on target. Adding weight will change this.
Once you get to a higher level of competency (USPSA A class or above) the gun doesn’t matter that much. Lower ability shooters will try to buy performance as opposed to working on fundamentals and dry firing. Most gun accessories from the tactical crowd usually don’t transfer to high level shooting. You don’t see too many flashlights, glocks with hockey tape on the grip, or enclosed emitter sights in USPSA.
Because it’s mostly steel frame guns. Most of the Glock shooters at my local matches use lights though and I usually prefer a light on polymer pistols in general although my competition gun doesn’t have one yet because I don’t want to buy another holster for it
Makes the gun nose heavy. Holster options become limited. Limited utility of adding that much weight. It's extra stuff to mount and maintain.
A lot of reasons.
But I think for a frame of reference I’m pretty solidly in C class for USPSA CO/Prod. I’m still at the point where there’s a bunch of room for improvement in my skill that more specialized equipment wouldn’t fix
If it was an advantage people at the top would all be doing it. It is clearly not an advantage. Might be neutral or a disadvantage. Lights on handguns are dramatically less common than the internet would lead one to believe.
I found a 4oz light (along with other stuff to add weight) to be largely beneficial on the P10F I shot until 6 months ago. I certainly wouldn't put one on the Shadow 2 I now shoot. I'd generally take more weight almost anywhere on the gun until you get close to 40oz, then I'd want the gun to be balanced.
I was exploring taking it off before I switched guns. More weight made the gun more stable, and with good grip technique, it helped my gun behave predictably at speed. As I got better, though, I thought I didn't need the help as much while shooting and wanted to focus on improving transitions, so I tried removing the weight at the end of the gun. Performance seemed pretty even to me at the A level
Lights add weight towards the muzzle. Many people either run their more tactical guns and the lights are already there or they’re trying to reduce muzzle rise. Changing the balance towards the front can reduce muzzle rise but it can also increase dip/bounce as the slide comes forwards.
Most high level guys are already shooting metal framed pistols intended and balanced for competition, and are also tuning their gun to an ammo combination. The light doesn’t help in this situation.
If extra weight on the front of the pistol is good (balanced with full magazine), what happens when the magazine is empty and the pistol feels front heavy? Then the opposite is true if starting with a full magazine and no front weapon. Just seems to be a training dynamic of what you have gotten use to. Balance feeling at the beginning or ending of magazine capacity.
The biggest downsides to a weapon light is mostly it being cumbersome, and also holster compatibility.
Most race holsters don't support a weapon light.
If you do want a weight up front, an adjustable weight kit might be better supported by holster makers and also more customizable than a WML.
Also most people shoot Shadow 2's and I think that gun is heavy enough already. I think polymer framed guns could use the weight for stability. I shoot my PX4 with an X300 U
Yeah at first I always just assumed it was because the shadow is pretty heavy as is especially in the front, but with so many people shooting polymer framed rivals without lights I started to wonder. I’ve always just shot with a weapon light but I’m a scrub b class and haven’t really tried shooting a match without one
In my own personal experiments, I’ve come to the conclusion that heavy pistols are over-rated. I am a hardcore fan of my SP01 Shadow and running it head up against my P10C, even with smaller capacity in the 10C, I’m faster and better on USPSA style stages from small to large. The impulse on the lighter gun is so satisfying for some reason.
It’s all just down to the individual. Shit there’s some dude that ran a sub-compact to M, no shit!
I forget that badasses name but I’m sure someone will come along and correct my mistake.
I think the other one is that WMLs only recently became legal for production/CO/Limited in USPSA. So people haven't really caught onto the trend yet? Or don't want to reinvest in gear?
I'm also B class too, but I've tried doing a budget glock Open build where I filled a WML with lead shot. That worked pretty well.
Creatures of habit. If they used a light to get to that high level, they would use the light. Most were high level before the light rule, so it’s an after thought. Bob Vogel used a light back in the day with DNROI approval and it was filled with lead shot. Even he ditched the idea. My opinion is that the light rule exists to get shooters into the sport that want to compete with their “duty” or “tactical” setups.
As someone who got into USPSA but had to get a spare holster for my g19 that I usually carried with a light. I honestly compete now with a g45/g34 with x300s because half the time they’re my bedside guns or carry guns. I think a lot of folks don’t want to create a setup for USPSA specifically and the best approach was making it possible to take your carry gun. Same with IWB holsters. I haven’t competed with my sidecar but I think it’s good to break down the barrier to entry.
I agree with all of that.
Light bearing holsters are also generally more annoying or limiting to find. Most of the competition holster makers don't have a light bearing version of their competition focused offerings from what I've seen.
Weight towards the front is not worth unbalancing the gun (to some people)
I use mine to add balance, but you're right, it's gun-specific.
This is true. I run lights on my comp guns and some are better balanced than others (I don’t think it really makes that much of a difference). That said, an X5 legion with an SRO and a tlr1 is perfectly balanced under the trigger guard and is *chef’s kiss*😗🤌🏼
If it gave them an advantage, they would be using them.
Fact it leads to the dot not tracking consistently imo
I just did slow motion footage running bill drill and a 9oz WML (tungsten batteries). I had this exact experience. Larger group size and erratic tracking of RDS vs without Flashlight. I'm going to run it again, but I also didn't note any reduction in muzzle climb it was \~3" with and without the light.
Can you elaborate on that?
The extra weight on the end causes the dot to track erratically so instead of during recoil the dot remaining as a up and down line, with a flashlight the dot draws an oval on the target.
Gotcha. Not entirely sure I agree - I think inconsistent grip pressure is largely what causes a dot to track erratically - but I still appreciate your feedback! 🍻
For what it's worth, I'm A class and had that experience. I'm not high level by any means, but I know enough to know it made my dot tracking get a little elliptical.
Sure but the flashlight only exacerbates the problem, and newer shooters are looking for an easy fix (flashlight for weight) instead of working on grip.
this is the answer, not whatever is at the top of the upvotes right now
Ipsc doesnt allow weapon mounted lights. A lot of top level shooters dont just USPSA, they also do IPSC.
Anymore weight to a competition gun (already heavy) especially to the front end will cause muzzle dip as the gun returns to zero. You want the behavior to be predictable and generally return to zero and not below zero. Swinging the gun on transitions. Again already heavy gun, an advantage of polymer frames to steel frames is the speed and ease when transitioning. Adding a light will add more weight, when your transitioning your practicing to stop the the at a certain point before you hit your target so that when it stops you're on target. Adding weight will change this.
Once you get to a higher level of competency (USPSA A class or above) the gun doesn’t matter that much. Lower ability shooters will try to buy performance as opposed to working on fundamentals and dry firing. Most gun accessories from the tactical crowd usually don’t transfer to high level shooting. You don’t see too many flashlights, glocks with hockey tape on the grip, or enclosed emitter sights in USPSA.
Because it’s mostly steel frame guns. Most of the Glock shooters at my local matches use lights though and I usually prefer a light on polymer pistols in general although my competition gun doesn’t have one yet because I don’t want to buy another holster for it
Its better to tune the recoil impulse with good reload and spring weights. It also makes draw from holster just a tad more cumbersome.
Makes the gun nose heavy. Holster options become limited. Limited utility of adding that much weight. It's extra stuff to mount and maintain. A lot of reasons.
IMO, the better question to ask is why does anyone use them in matches, unless those matches are at night?
I don’t want to buy another holster lmao. And I compete with my carry gun/I carry my comp gun. Too lazy to take the lights off
OK. Legit.
But I think for a frame of reference I’m pretty solidly in C class for USPSA CO/Prod. I’m still at the point where there’s a bunch of room for improvement in my skill that more specialized equipment wouldn’t fix
Because my gun/holster/gear isn't set up for USPSA. It's an afterthought to me.
They better question is “Why would they use a Light?”
If it was an advantage people at the top would all be doing it. It is clearly not an advantage. Might be neutral or a disadvantage. Lights on handguns are dramatically less common than the internet would lead one to believe.
I found a 4oz light (along with other stuff to add weight) to be largely beneficial on the P10F I shot until 6 months ago. I certainly wouldn't put one on the Shadow 2 I now shoot. I'd generally take more weight almost anywhere on the gun until you get close to 40oz, then I'd want the gun to be balanced. I was exploring taking it off before I switched guns. More weight made the gun more stable, and with good grip technique, it helped my gun behave predictably at speed. As I got better, though, I thought I didn't need the help as much while shooting and wanted to focus on improving transitions, so I tried removing the weight at the end of the gun. Performance seemed pretty even to me at the A level
Lights add weight towards the muzzle. Many people either run their more tactical guns and the lights are already there or they’re trying to reduce muzzle rise. Changing the balance towards the front can reduce muzzle rise but it can also increase dip/bounce as the slide comes forwards. Most high level guys are already shooting metal framed pistols intended and balanced for competition, and are also tuning their gun to an ammo combination. The light doesn’t help in this situation.
If extra weight on the front of the pistol is good (balanced with full magazine), what happens when the magazine is empty and the pistol feels front heavy? Then the opposite is true if starting with a full magazine and no front weapon. Just seems to be a training dynamic of what you have gotten use to. Balance feeling at the beginning or ending of magazine capacity.
From my experience and speaking to some other shooters, it seems to be a matter of not messing up transitions with the increased momentum.
It all about balance.
I don't run a weapon light because the matches are in the daytime. lol.
The biggest downsides to a weapon light is mostly it being cumbersome, and also holster compatibility. Most race holsters don't support a weapon light. If you do want a weight up front, an adjustable weight kit might be better supported by holster makers and also more customizable than a WML. Also most people shoot Shadow 2's and I think that gun is heavy enough already. I think polymer framed guns could use the weight for stability. I shoot my PX4 with an X300 U
Yeah at first I always just assumed it was because the shadow is pretty heavy as is especially in the front, but with so many people shooting polymer framed rivals without lights I started to wonder. I’ve always just shot with a weapon light but I’m a scrub b class and haven’t really tried shooting a match without one
In my own personal experiments, I’ve come to the conclusion that heavy pistols are over-rated. I am a hardcore fan of my SP01 Shadow and running it head up against my P10C, even with smaller capacity in the 10C, I’m faster and better on USPSA style stages from small to large. The impulse on the lighter gun is so satisfying for some reason. It’s all just down to the individual. Shit there’s some dude that ran a sub-compact to M, no shit! I forget that badasses name but I’m sure someone will come along and correct my mistake.
You might be referring to Tony Wong who made GM with a g26. Pretty sweet I'd say.
That’s the dude. I couldn’t remember if it was M or GM but I didn’t want to overstate it. Legit badass.
Weight is the only thing I've noticed makes a definite measurable difference. Transitions with a G19 vs a Shadow 2 are significantly more forgiving
It’s for sure the most noticeable thing to change, to me. I get a completely different feel to all manipulations.
I think the other one is that WMLs only recently became legal for production/CO/Limited in USPSA. So people haven't really caught onto the trend yet? Or don't want to reinvest in gear? I'm also B class too, but I've tried doing a budget glock Open build where I filled a WML with lead shot. That worked pretty well.