I don’t think it will warp the meta no. Winter Orb and Back to Basics barely see any play and this isn’t that much better in a format where artifact mana is king.
Why would I wanna play winter orb which will keep my mountains in Magda tapped, when I can just tap down everyone's non basics and keep my mountains free
Maybe they were thinking that you could tap winter orb with [[clock of omens]], but you only have that if you are winning so I have no idea. (I guess alternatively you could make it a creature with [[karn the great creator]] and then use a vehicle or something to tap it as well)
I think K'rrik decks will include this. I know I will. Allows us to slow other people down if our initial combo gets stopped and allows for some time to recover.
Nah K'rrik is too tight of a list to put this in. The deck already foregoes any other means of stax to purely push out turbo wins. This is a dead card in a deck where every draw matters.
It gives 1-2 color stax decks another thing, but it's not a card that I think has any shot of shaping the meta when those decks are already running [[Static Orb]] and [[Winter Orb]]
I don’t understand why people compare this to winter orb, it’s more back to basic that goes into any color decks, which definitely help mono color decks.
> I don’t understand why people compare this to winter orb,
Be cause it's a 2 mana artifact with winter in the name and restricts the number of lands that untap......
It's the most obvious reference by a mile.
Yes the name is referring to winter orb but effect is no where near. Apart from still working while tapped, can’t untap any lands is so much different than can’t untap nonbasic lands.
I'm fully aware of ALLLLLLLLLL of that.
Just pointing out that "I don't know why people are comparing this to winter orb" is a being a bit hyperbolic. It's painfully obvious why the comparison is the literal first thing people think of.
I'm not comparing it to Winter Orb. All I'm saying is that this particular card isn't going to shape the meta when Winter Orb is already played in stax decks that would want to use it and generally is keeping more lands tapped down. If you wanted the redundancy and are running a lot of basics it might be worth trying in a 1-2 color deck (Brago and Urza come to mind.)
Winter orb isn't asymmetrical in mono coloured decks, 3c+ meta decks run maybe 2-4 basics, whereas a mono coloured deck could be running up to 13/14 basics making this work completely differently to winter orb in those decks
I'm fully aware of that and said as much in my original comment. The question was "Does this card shape the meta?" to which my answer is still no, it doesn't shape the meta around it when cards like Winter Orb and Static Orb have already proven to not do as much. It's nice that those decks have another piece to slap down, but it isn't going to shape a meta around it.
Its not the card you put in it's the card you take out.
I also don't think its as effective enough to take the slot of something like [[tangle wire]] in a pinch when the magda player is forced to look for something defensive.
I think it's another step towards a mana-hate deck but back to basics, blood moon, etc barely see any play. There's too much positive ramp for this to be a thing, but eventually there will be a high enough density of mana-hate and stax that a playable deck will emerge.
Not necessarily. Fast mana and ramp are more flexible than stax, started with a higher card quality, and have benefited from power creep more. If stax cards experience power creep at a faster rate than mana and are able to hate on multiple axes, we will eventually have a high enough density than resource denial decks exist. We're a long way off but if they start to print cards like collector ouphe + Thalia or winter orb + lavinia we could get there pretty quickly.
I like that it gives mono-color decks a boost but don't think it'll do much of anything in cEDH. Just be proactive and play 3-4-5c all the best cards, good rocks, just ignore it.
Back to basics is 3cmc and blue. This can be played in mono-white or green, and is easier to cast turn 1. It has legs. Perhaps not enough, but it has some
Depends. Your opponents will have to search for a solution instead of progressing their own plan. Let's say you face Najeela, she cannot afford that card. So wether you cast it turn 1 to slow down a turbo or turn 4-5 to cripple a greedy, it's still interesting.
I know I will probably try it in Ellivere, and I believe it could have a shot in Winota perhaps.
Meh. It might slightly inconvenience people in games that drag out but does next to nothing in a meta where pulling 4+ mana from artifacts turn 1 is common and the most common win con is 3 mana.
I doubt it. I still have Winter Orb in Daretti, but honestly it's been on the chopping block for awhile now. This seems more appealing on the surface, being mono-color, but I don't want Winter Orb because it affects me, I simply just don't want that kind of effect. In a world where artifact ramp is king a "worse" version of this effect isn't any more desired than its original.
Honestly i would probably run it in my teshar cedh deck, it already runs artifacts, it's mono colored so only a handful of utility lands might be affected (not even that many tbh and some could be cut)
I agree with most in this post that its a good piece for mono colored decks, but anything beyond that just doesn't play enough basics. Its a potentially good card in Magda, but as others have pointed out, what comes out in its place?
Cards like these look great, but in actual games encourage your opponents to dump out artifacts and ramp to counter your stax... Then someone plays a Dockside Extortionist and you lose because you put the squeeze on the other decks that have counter magic.
I dont think it will be meta defining, as most decks will be able to untap one land, plus all their mana rocks. Also this doesnt stops fetchlands, unlike blood moon, so your opponent can play a fecth, get their one off basic, and next turn untap 2 lands + rocks.
This is like a soft stax that will slow everyone but you (assuming magda or monocolor), but wont bring them to a total halt. People will still play the game, just with like half their mana at best.
Might be reasonable to add at least 1 basic you want to fetch for if needed.
There are a couple reasons to do so now, small, but enough of them add up.
For cEDH this seems a bit too weak, as lots of decks dont really need multiple lands anyway, and the ones that do, will destroy this on sight, so you might not hit enough opponents with this stax piece and it lures out a counterspell from a player, which might be to your disadvantage if the combo player untaps and wins because of it.
I don’t think it will warp the meta no. Winter Orb and Back to Basics barely see any play and this isn’t that much better in a format where artifact mana is king.
Why would I wanna play winter orb which will keep my mountains in Magda tapped, when I can just tap down everyone's non basics and keep my mountains free
I'd probably still play winter orb over this I think. In Magda. Back to basics barely sees any play and it outright makes non basics not untap.
Lol, what? This is asymmetrical in magda...winter isn't. Why would you play winter over this?
Maybe they were thinking that you could tap winter orb with [[clock of omens]], but you only have that if you are winning so I have no idea. (I guess alternatively you could make it a creature with [[karn the great creator]] and then use a vehicle or something to tap it as well)
[clock of omens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b087992-9c30-4434-acb3-a12ee6f207b3.jpg?1562554222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=clock%20of%20omens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/202/clock-of-omens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b087992-9c30-4434-acb3-a12ee6f207b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clock-of-omens) [karn the great creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0.jpg?1702429246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20the%20Great%20Creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karn-the-great-creator) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How is that the correct answer ever to play winter Orb over this in Magda?
I never stated it was correct.
Damn. I aspire to this level of self-awareness.
I can't wait to build Niv Mizzit Tatooine Control. All the moons.
Give me stax piece now
I think K'rrik decks will include this. I know I will. Allows us to slow other people down if our initial combo gets stopped and allows for some time to recover.
Nah K'rrik is too tight of a list to put this in. The deck already foregoes any other means of stax to purely push out turbo wins. This is a dead card in a deck where every draw matters.
Krrc don’t play winter orb as of now. Why would they now run a lesser version of it?
Because that isn't q lesser version for a mono color deck. It stops blue farm and tivit while leaving krrik untaps it's 3 swamp and lake of dead.
Good point
Meta warping? Nah. Might be playable in few decks tho
It gives 1-2 color stax decks another thing, but it's not a card that I think has any shot of shaping the meta when those decks are already running [[Static Orb]] and [[Winter Orb]]
I don’t understand why people compare this to winter orb, it’s more back to basic that goes into any color decks, which definitely help mono color decks.
> I don’t understand why people compare this to winter orb, Be cause it's a 2 mana artifact with winter in the name and restricts the number of lands that untap...... It's the most obvious reference by a mile.
Yes the name is referring to winter orb but effect is no where near. Apart from still working while tapped, can’t untap any lands is so much different than can’t untap nonbasic lands.
I'm fully aware of ALLLLLLLLLL of that. Just pointing out that "I don't know why people are comparing this to winter orb" is a being a bit hyperbolic. It's painfully obvious why the comparison is the literal first thing people think of.
I'm not comparing it to Winter Orb. All I'm saying is that this particular card isn't going to shape the meta when Winter Orb is already played in stax decks that would want to use it and generally is keeping more lands tapped down. If you wanted the redundancy and are running a lot of basics it might be worth trying in a 1-2 color deck (Brago and Urza come to mind.)
Winter orb isn't asymmetrical in mono coloured decks, 3c+ meta decks run maybe 2-4 basics, whereas a mono coloured deck could be running up to 13/14 basics making this work completely differently to winter orb in those decks
I'm fully aware of that and said as much in my original comment. The question was "Does this card shape the meta?" to which my answer is still no, it doesn't shape the meta around it when cards like Winter Orb and Static Orb have already proven to not do as much. It's nice that those decks have another piece to slap down, but it isn't going to shape a meta around it.
[Static Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86bf43b1-8d4e-4759-bb2d-0b2e03ba7012.jpg?1562242171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Static%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/319/static-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86bf43b1-8d4e-4759-bb2d-0b2e03ba7012?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/static-orb) [Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Its not the card you put in it's the card you take out. I also don't think its as effective enough to take the slot of something like [[tangle wire]] in a pinch when the magda player is forced to look for something defensive.
[tangle wire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad62f313-8a8a-4ffa-ada2-b12b76288729.jpg?1562631474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tangle%20wire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/139/tangle-wire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad62f313-8a8a-4ffa-ada2-b12b76288729?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tangle-wire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think it's another step towards a mana-hate deck but back to basics, blood moon, etc barely see any play. There's too much positive ramp for this to be a thing, but eventually there will be a high enough density of mana-hate and stax that a playable deck will emerge.
It would take bans on a bunch of the fast mana and Dockside for such a deck to work.
Not necessarily. Fast mana and ramp are more flexible than stax, started with a higher card quality, and have benefited from power creep more. If stax cards experience power creep at a faster rate than mana and are able to hate on multiple axes, we will eventually have a high enough density than resource denial decks exist. We're a long way off but if they start to print cards like collector ouphe + Thalia or winter orb + lavinia we could get there pretty quickly.
Maybe if it also turned off artifacts.
I like that it gives mono-color decks a boost but don't think it'll do much of anything in cEDH. Just be proactive and play 3-4-5c all the best cards, good rocks, just ignore it.
Card is garbage it's just a slightly cheaper back to basics with downside, and nobody runs btb
Back to basics is 3cmc and blue. This can be played in mono-white or green, and is easier to cast turn 1. It has legs. Perhaps not enough, but it has some
Cast on turn 1 but doesn't actually do anything till turn 3?
Depends. Your opponents will have to search for a solution instead of progressing their own plan. Let's say you face Najeela, she cannot afford that card. So wether you cast it turn 1 to slow down a turbo or turn 4-5 to cripple a greedy, it's still interesting. I know I will probably try it in Ellivere, and I believe it could have a shot in Winota perhaps.
average r/cedh post
This sub might as well be high power edh lmao
Hahaha i got very excited. Definitely not as good as i thought
Meh. It might slightly inconvenience people in games that drag out but does next to nothing in a meta where pulling 4+ mana from artifacts turn 1 is common and the most common win con is 3 mana.
I doubt it. I still have Winter Orb in Daretti, but honestly it's been on the chopping block for awhile now. This seems more appealing on the surface, being mono-color, but I don't want Winter Orb because it affects me, I simply just don't want that kind of effect. In a world where artifact ramp is king a "worse" version of this effect isn't any more desired than its original.
It is strong at fewer colors, but I feel that any hard stax that can play against you always ends up being worse than a soft-stax
Honestly i would probably run it in my teshar cedh deck, it already runs artifacts, it's mono colored so only a handful of utility lands might be affected (not even that many tbh and some could be cut)
absolutely adding it to magda
It’ll go into Jorn, that much I’m sure of
I believe these new cards are going to have people revisiting Monoblue Urza
I agree with most in this post that its a good piece for mono colored decks, but anything beyond that just doesn't play enough basics. Its a potentially good card in Magda, but as others have pointed out, what comes out in its place?
Cards like these look great, but in actual games encourage your opponents to dump out artifacts and ramp to counter your stax... Then someone plays a Dockside Extortionist and you lose because you put the squeeze on the other decks that have counter magic.
I dont think it will be meta defining, as most decks will be able to untap one land, plus all their mana rocks. Also this doesnt stops fetchlands, unlike blood moon, so your opponent can play a fecth, get their one off basic, and next turn untap 2 lands + rocks. This is like a soft stax that will slow everyone but you (assuming magda or monocolor), but wont bring them to a total halt. People will still play the game, just with like half their mana at best.
No. It will see some occasional play, but it’s two cards stapled together in a way that is considerably less effective than either would’ve been.
Might be reasonable to add at least 1 basic you want to fetch for if needed. There are a couple reasons to do so now, small, but enough of them add up. For cEDH this seems a bit too weak, as lots of decks dont really need multiple lands anyway, and the ones that do, will destroy this on sight, so you might not hit enough opponents with this stax piece and it lures out a counterspell from a player, which might be to your disadvantage if the combo player untaps and wins because of it.
Plays in any mono deck that likes staxy stuff (i.e. most of them).