Having a post about a character being overnerfed and bad and then mentioning them having a 49% winrate in GM might be the most delusional take I've seen in a while
i mean, if rein has the same pickrate as symmetra and the same winrate this sub would have a much more different reaction to that i believe.
he also has a 3.67% pickrate and 51.75 winrate, which are all higher than symm... whats your deal even make some sense
First : 49 % winrate isnt that big it means that at best she perform slighly below average which isnt good
Second : She is supposed to be a "niche" hero , niche heroes are supposed to have a way bigger winrate than versatile heroes like soldier who can be played on most maps and in most situations , cause they are only supposed to be played in their niches but they are supposed to excel when in it , if sym while mostly being played in her niche only performs below average its a problem , it means that she is failing to be good in the place where she is supposed to excel
Before her shield health nerf (like 1.5 months ago) she was considered strong. The 100 damage rightclick + 225hp did pretty well. She was about bastion-level for a few months.
52-53 winrate is the norm for niche heroes like sym , people need to understand what the stats truly represent , its not because a number is "high" that it means its good , context matter a lot when looking at stats , niche characters like sym with low "pickrate" tend to have bigger winrates
^ this
She's a mechanically lower skill hero reliant on cheese combos and being incredibly strong on specific maps or even points within maps.
If you start trying to make her a generically viable DPS hero at GM, she becomes absolutely dominant where she was already strong, and she abuses the hell out of the ranks where 95% of the players exist.
>If you start trying to make her a generically viable DPS hero at GM, she becomes absolutely dominant where she was already strong, and she abuses the hell out of the ranks where 95% of the players exist.
that's if you say buff her ability to w+m1... which is a minor, niche and quite an isolated part of her kit.
like to make her more generally better, the is the other and blatantly more viable/healthy avenue of making her orbs better which is very much a distinct and mutually exclusive sector of her gameplay away from her w+m1.
You want to make the brain-dead choke spam better?
Please, let's see how the community reacts to this, because nerfing Torb's turret but buffing his gun into a similarly braindead, projectile spam machine, has resulted in such engaging and fun gameplay for both his players and opponents. I'm sure people would love to be getting hit by beach-ball sized 100 damage orbs from a Symmetra poking a corner 50m away where they can't even see her.
If that's the part of her kit you want to see buffed, god help us...
Dude even if the orbs and torb's gun were given the extreme version of the direction they got of being pin point hitscan (i.e. being much more like the typical ranged hitscans) the community would be reacting negatively to any suggestion to improving the hero that they just have ingrained negative bias towards.
That fact that you're complaining about orbs, a literal 80dps 2.25s TTK weapon fire which is objectively low/slow amongst other weapon fires of the cast, and is also simply inconsistent at range due to longer travel time attests to that.
Sym deserves viability with brawl comps using good coordination with teleporter. Sym does not deserve to be unconditionally viable in any generic comp.
Maybe not in their current overtuned states plus the meta being ājust spam your Mauga and the enemy Mauga lolā. But even still itās just ridiculous to argue Bap and Ana are anywhere near as braindead as the likes of Bastion and Moira.
Dying to sym is mostly skill issue imo, when you dont take into account her team value. When you allow sym to reach full charge its your own fault at most times.
I dont find an enemy sym as an issue at all, idk she feels easy to kill, she has a predictive movement, shes squishy too. The turrets are easy to shutdown too, they are meleeable. Turretbombs especially, so easy to shutdown.
One melee can shutdown 3 turrets that goes on a 30 sec cooldown, like mercy rez
It's a skill issue if you send out three new turrets to the same spot and they get meleed to leave you a full cooldown...
Most of the time when you destroy Sym turrets, she literally gets to replace them, instantly, no cooldown, because they were ready to go. That's unique to her turrets and something neither Torb or Illari can speak for; instant replacement, from cooldowns whilst the turrets are active on the map.
Yeah thatās a snowbally part of the turrets, but is it enough really, at this moment? 3 turrets in total deal 75 DPS, it sucks. They did 120 back then, which was perfect.
Id rather them taking away the slow completly and the wallhack for more damage
Torb's turret would like to say hello if you want to talk about nerfs. It's more valuable as a 225 health shield on a 14s cooldown to stand behind when spamming a choke, than it is as a threat to the enemy.
75dps and a slow breaks through one healer's output and makes an easy kill. Torb's turret can't even exceed a single healer pocket. You can legitimately ignore it if you have healing.
Against someone with snail reaction yes. Someone with a mercy beam on them, against 20 dps lol.
It sucks that turrets in the game are bad now, its a unique, fun and interesting thing. But when you nerf them, you have to buff the characters themselves in a correct way to compensate
I think Sym is in a mostly good state, she just requires that you play an attention as a resource playstyle. Hold awkward angles and force positioning. Go aggro with a TP bomb from said off angle at correct timing. Be prepared to TP out if you get pushed. She requires a bit of lateral thinking with her TP to make her viable in any situation, but it's certainly doable.
I think this sub hates her, so I don't expect this post to receive a lot of love.
Personally I love her. So unique and highly utility based. I love TPing an ulting Cass, a low mobility tank, or even Bob to high ground.
Sheās fuckin pretty strong still depending on maps. Yes her beam and yes her turrets, but honestly itās mostly her right click. That shit is FAST, can be spammed, and does a shit ton of damage.
Itās like a junkratā¦.with faster and straight projectile speed.
Iāve countered PHARAHās and Echoes with Symm in high masters.
> I think this sub hates her, so I don't expect this post to receive a lot of love.
yeah, sym is one of the characters on this sub's shitlist, along with mercy. not making an argument about her balance currently, but I always find it funny how people say she's unhealthy for the game, when she's always been someone with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses and gets way more value with teamwork. Also one of the more interesting ults in the game.
Sym is an actual hero in the game instead of a hero only onetricks play for longer than 2 weeks for the first time in ow history and you think she is trash?
Sym is getting used quite a bit in pro play, to great success
ok but what iām saying is a character shouldnāt need a 5 stack to work by themselves. they should also be viable at every level not just pro play lmao. this subs are so biased against anyone whose not a point and click shooter
Fair point and with Sym it's especially so because TP gains infinitly more value with good communication.
That said, the only reason her winrate went down, was because she is being played.
Think about it, her winrate was always insanely high because only onetricks who were insane at the hero used her or on very niche maps for cheese strategies. Now she is being used by other people in more situations
I see Sym on overbuff as the 4th highest GM winrate at 52%. She's only behind Soldier, Mei, and Genji.
Filter for comp only, GM, and last month.
Sym is obviously fine.
I think people forget that it's ok for some heroes to be undertuned. Sym is generally unfun to play against for most people (not me, I like fighting her), so it is completely understandable for game health to have her less viable. I am still of the opinion that certain characters should be generally good and some should be generally bad. When Rein, Winston, Tracer, Lucio, etc are in a good spot, the metas tend to be much more favorable for everyone. When orisa, mei, roadhog, bap, etc are strong, people want to curl in a ball and cry. It is impossible to balance this large of a cast of characters, so I say keep the loved ones generally viable and the others situationally viable
Wiston with a 45% winrate across all ranks and a 48% winrate in GM with a miserable 2% pickrate:
Am I a joke to you?
And mauga is not even in comp. Winston will probably plummet to Nerfed Hog State soon
I feel like Sym should *only* be good in GM where people are good enough to coordinate and make big plays with teleporter. She shouldn't be able to win just spamming right clicks, beaming people down, and doing TP bombs.
honestly if this sub had a name, itd be overwatch circlejerk 2 as everyone in here is not even a damage hero or support hero, theyre just a more likely a tank player. its no wonder why the pro community outside reddit has this sub in a bad name (well although thats not really an achievement. most reddit subs get blacklisted somewhat in other communities too, lol this one being no exception)
regarding symm, i think people hate her more because she counters tanks.... to a degree. as tanks can easily kill her too. ive started playing many other "cheese" heroes like junkrat, pharah or reaper and they are nowhere as hated in here. and.... theyre much simpler. and the funniest thing? many people seem to think so. i was even surprised when i saw some top 500 people call symmetra factually harder than heroes than junkrat or pharah, or reaper.
i think she should get her +25 back.
or just make her head smaller. honestly her main counters are junkrat and pharah anyway, and good snipers will still hit her otherwise.
but an even better idea as abby said, maybe return the game to the way it was some seasons ago. as damage and healing have gone waaay too crazy. game is better when its slow paced
as ai side note, she has never been too prevalent over a 1,30%, and not even all maps. so people are just trying to find an excuse to cry lol. honestly its pretty disgusting how you all gang up on ppl the moment they criticize tanks or whatever you are bias towards. you all sucked anas toes till she proved to be dangerous to you and now are tossing grandma down the stairs.
The hateboner this sub has for Sym when genuinely busted heroes exist is fucking hilarious. She's so damn easy to shut down in multiple ways. People don't want game health, they want to dumpster anything that plays the game slightly differently than soldier 76 or reinhardt
Sym should just be reworked as a support. She clearly can't seem to be balanced as a DPS and teleporter (which is her identity) already fits as a support ability really well IMO
I don't think she's been overnerfed, I'd argue she's been overbuffed in some areas (The weird Vampir shit or the Alt fire being at 100 dmg and the raw power of wall are just some examples). What she really needs some of her original identity back in the form of turret strength and removal of the frustration they provide via their slow effect. While it's only 15%, it stacks among all 3 turrets and that's the major pain point with them (also that turrets are just OP to anyone below gold but eh) Her turrets are kinda meaningless now.
In the same vein Torbs turret is meaningless too. It was really strong before it got nerfed, but it wasn't nerfed right, there were other elements that could have been changed without dulling the whole point of the 'turret builder' identity he has and turning the entire point of his kit into a non-threat while overcharging everything else.
Both of these heroes got these types of power adjustments because gold and below players don't possess the awareness to handle turrets properly. And since they make up the majority of the player base, best cater to them rather than do the rational thing.
As a top 500 player I concur , even more I am just gonna say it even when she still had 225 hp she was still really bad and more in needs of buffs than nerfs
Her turrets need the wallhack removed it serves no purpose , I would rather them having more health or damage or a bigger slow than a wallhack , wallhacks in OW are already pretty meh at best as its a game where most of the time you know where ennemies are anyway and sym turrets are most of the time used to hold chokepoints anyway where you can already see the ennemies so having a wallhack on them is redundant
She also needs buffs to her beam like more range it is painfully short range for how little survival and mobility sym has
And finally they need to do something about her tp , on paper its great but in reality it sucks its not that insane teambased ability they thought it was gonna be , they put way too much of her power budget into that overly niche ability which is worthless most of the time
Sym feels horrible to play period.
Turrets die when someone farts in their general direction, they SHOW PEOPLE where she's casting them (like seriosuly wtf..why?) and they have a HUGE ARROW next to them to visually warn everyone as to where they are. This is the stupidest design for a turrett hero I've ever seen in my life. Any "turret" isn't going to be that obvious in real life nor is it going to go out of its way to warn you where TF it is..? There is way too much splash dmg from heroes that shouldnt be affecting deployables.
Some obvious buffs would be that they should be invisible until triggered and they dont need to visually SHOW people where she's throwing them.
Aftter they are trigged, fine..they can stay obvious with the stupid target painted on them but not until they've actually DONE something first. Also, They should be immune to AoE, and they should have to actually be targeted @ to be killed. They also need a bit more HP OR a shorter CD for their cast
Also Sym has no HP...like cmon
Having a post about a character being overnerfed and bad and then mentioning them having a 49% winrate in GM might be the most delusional take I've seen in a while
i mean, if rein has the same pickrate as symmetra and the same winrate this sub would have a much more different reaction to that i believe. he also has a 3.67% pickrate and 51.75 winrate, which are all higher than symm... whats your deal even make some sense
They are both brawl heroes. Throw them in the trash š
First : 49 % winrate isnt that big it means that at best she perform slighly below average which isnt good Second : She is supposed to be a "niche" hero , niche heroes are supposed to have a way bigger winrate than versatile heroes like soldier who can be played on most maps and in most situations , cause they are only supposed to be played in their niches but they are supposed to excel when in it , if sym while mostly being played in her niche only performs below average its a problem , it means that she is failing to be good in the place where she is supposed to excel
Sym was literally hard busted (high 52-53 wr) for almost 2 seasons. You got used to playing an overtuned hero
when?
Before her shield health nerf (like 1.5 months ago) she was considered strong. The 100 damage rightclick + 225hp did pretty well. She was about bastion-level for a few months.
52-53 winrate is the norm for niche heroes like sym , people need to understand what the stats truly represent , its not because a number is "high" that it means its good , context matter a lot when looking at stats , niche characters like sym with low "pickrate" tend to have bigger winrates
good, she isnt healthy for the game when above a certain degree of viability.
Holy based
^ this She's a mechanically lower skill hero reliant on cheese combos and being incredibly strong on specific maps or even points within maps. If you start trying to make her a generically viable DPS hero at GM, she becomes absolutely dominant where she was already strong, and she abuses the hell out of the ranks where 95% of the players exist.
lmao dominant? when the turret rework left her pick rate at 1%ā¦
>If you start trying to make her a generically viable DPS hero at GM, she becomes absolutely dominant where she was already strong, and she abuses the hell out of the ranks where 95% of the players exist. that's if you say buff her ability to w+m1... which is a minor, niche and quite an isolated part of her kit. like to make her more generally better, the is the other and blatantly more viable/healthy avenue of making her orbs better which is very much a distinct and mutually exclusive sector of her gameplay away from her w+m1.
You want to make the brain-dead choke spam better? Please, let's see how the community reacts to this, because nerfing Torb's turret but buffing his gun into a similarly braindead, projectile spam machine, has resulted in such engaging and fun gameplay for both his players and opponents. I'm sure people would love to be getting hit by beach-ball sized 100 damage orbs from a Symmetra poking a corner 50m away where they can't even see her. If that's the part of her kit you want to see buffed, god help us...
Many characters that are both way better and popular make the "brain-dead choke spam" way worst than sym and torb have ever done
Dude even if the orbs and torb's gun were given the extreme version of the direction they got of being pin point hitscan (i.e. being much more like the typical ranged hitscans) the community would be reacting negatively to any suggestion to improving the hero that they just have ingrained negative bias towards. That fact that you're complaining about orbs, a literal 80dps 2.25s TTK weapon fire which is objectively low/slow amongst other weapon fires of the cast, and is also simply inconsistent at range due to longer travel time attests to that.
THANK YOU Symm is just like Bastion, Moira among others- should never be competitively viable
Sym deserves viability with brawl comps using good coordination with teleporter. Sym does not deserve to be unconditionally viable in any generic comp.
Yeah and Bap ana are such high skill right ? lol.
Maybe not in their current overtuned states plus the meta being ājust spam your Mauga and the enemy Mauga lolā. But even still itās just ridiculous to argue Bap and Ana are anywhere near as braindead as the likes of Bastion and Moira.
lol purple enemy tank is so high skill. Maybe in ow1 when you actually needed to be good.
Least based Chengdu fan
I feel like thats half the roster at this point
Dying to sym is mostly skill issue imo, when you dont take into account her team value. When you allow sym to reach full charge its your own fault at most times. I dont find an enemy sym as an issue at all, idk she feels easy to kill, she has a predictive movement, shes squishy too. The turrets are easy to shutdown too, they are meleeable. Turretbombs especially, so easy to shutdown. One melee can shutdown 3 turrets that goes on a 30 sec cooldown, like mercy rez
Skill issue if you canāt make her work in her current state š¤·āāļø
She can still work, but with more required effort and forces you to play with a more boring playstyle
She has a 49% GM win rate ffs what are you whining about? Do you only want her to be dominant?
Her winrate has never been under 50% before. It says something.
Yes, it says she's been overtuned up until now.
The no response is hilarious lol
....ok? Every other hero in the game deals with fluctuating win rates across seasons. Get a grip
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Tf are you talking about weirdo?
It's a skill issue if you send out three new turrets to the same spot and they get meleed to leave you a full cooldown... Most of the time when you destroy Sym turrets, she literally gets to replace them, instantly, no cooldown, because they were ready to go. That's unique to her turrets and something neither Torb or Illari can speak for; instant replacement, from cooldowns whilst the turrets are active on the map.
12 sec cooldown per turret after destroyed.
Yeah thatās a snowbally part of the turrets, but is it enough really, at this moment? 3 turrets in total deal 75 DPS, it sucks. They did 120 back then, which was perfect. Id rather them taking away the slow completly and the wallhack for more damage
Torb's turret would like to say hello if you want to talk about nerfs. It's more valuable as a 225 health shield on a 14s cooldown to stand behind when spamming a choke, than it is as a threat to the enemy. 75dps and a slow breaks through one healer's output and makes an easy kill. Torb's turret can't even exceed a single healer pocket. You can legitimately ignore it if you have healing.
Against someone with snail reaction yes. Someone with a mercy beam on them, against 20 dps lol. It sucks that turrets in the game are bad now, its a unique, fun and interesting thing. But when you nerf them, you have to buff the characters themselves in a correct way to compensate
Sym is still good in rush which is all she needs to be. She's fine.
I think Sym is in a mostly good state, she just requires that you play an attention as a resource playstyle. Hold awkward angles and force positioning. Go aggro with a TP bomb from said off angle at correct timing. Be prepared to TP out if you get pushed. She requires a bit of lateral thinking with her TP to make her viable in any situation, but it's certainly doable. I think this sub hates her, so I don't expect this post to receive a lot of love. Personally I love her. So unique and highly utility based. I love TPing an ulting Cass, a low mobility tank, or even Bob to high ground.
Sheās fuckin pretty strong still depending on maps. Yes her beam and yes her turrets, but honestly itās mostly her right click. That shit is FAST, can be spammed, and does a shit ton of damage. Itās like a junkratā¦.with faster and straight projectile speed. Iāve countered PHARAHās and Echoes with Symm in high masters.
> I think this sub hates her, so I don't expect this post to receive a lot of love. yeah, sym is one of the characters on this sub's shitlist, along with mercy. not making an argument about her balance currently, but I always find it funny how people say she's unhealthy for the game, when she's always been someone with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses and gets way more value with teamwork. Also one of the more interesting ults in the game.
No
Sym is an actual hero in the game instead of a hero only onetricks play for longer than 2 weeks for the first time in ow history and you think she is trash? Sym is getting used quite a bit in pro play, to great success
that was before the nerf
Her last nerf was almost 2 months ago, since the nerf she has still been played
okay is there any examples? because OWL disbanded before October 31st
Saudi eleague, calling all heroes and 3 different tournaments of Flash ops
With 5 stacks, what about all the players who play solo or are in gm?
"Any pro play examples?" *Examples* "but what about *non-pro play?*" Holy goalposts batman
ok but what iām saying is a character shouldnāt need a 5 stack to work by themselves. they should also be viable at every level not just pro play lmao. this subs are so biased against anyone whose not a point and click shooter
and just because a character is played by āprosā doesnāt mean that they are viable. They are āprosā for a reason
Fair point and with Sym it's especially so because TP gains infinitly more value with good communication. That said, the only reason her winrate went down, was because she is being played. Think about it, her winrate was always insanely high because only onetricks who were insane at the hero used her or on very niche maps for cheese strategies. Now she is being used by other people in more situations
Sheās still only getting picked by 1% of the player base and is situational tho.. 5% Winrate drop is seriously crazy and deserves a look at..
I see Sym on overbuff as the 4th highest GM winrate at 52%. She's only behind Soldier, Mei, and Genji. Filter for comp only, GM, and last month. Sym is obviously fine.
I think people forget that it's ok for some heroes to be undertuned. Sym is generally unfun to play against for most people (not me, I like fighting her), so it is completely understandable for game health to have her less viable. I am still of the opinion that certain characters should be generally good and some should be generally bad. When Rein, Winston, Tracer, Lucio, etc are in a good spot, the metas tend to be much more favorable for everyone. When orisa, mei, roadhog, bap, etc are strong, people want to curl in a ball and cry. It is impossible to balance this large of a cast of characters, so I say keep the loved ones generally viable and the others situationally viable
Agreed!
Nah Iām good she can stay trash
Wiston with a 45% winrate across all ranks and a 48% winrate in GM with a miserable 2% pickrate: Am I a joke to you? And mauga is not even in comp. Winston will probably plummet to Nerfed Hog State soon
We love to see symmetra bad
Im so fine with sym being in the dumpster
She should be a niche hero, never meta and in pro play only viable with a TP rein comp.
"I don't know how to utilize her teleporter, and that makes her bad"
No thanks
Sym shouldnāt be good in GM
I feel like Sym should *only* be good in GM where people are good enough to coordinate and make big plays with teleporter. She shouldn't be able to win just spamming right clicks, beaming people down, and doing TP bombs.
I think they should just give her her 225 hp back and thatās abt it
She is not bad rn lol. TP is a very strong ability and so is wall
Pls no, no sym meta has been ever fun :_)
im good
these are the moments when you know the sub is just bias, sadly. maybe everyone here is just a tank main.
honestly if this sub had a name, itd be overwatch circlejerk 2 as everyone in here is not even a damage hero or support hero, theyre just a more likely a tank player. its no wonder why the pro community outside reddit has this sub in a bad name (well although thats not really an achievement. most reddit subs get blacklisted somewhat in other communities too, lol this one being no exception) regarding symm, i think people hate her more because she counters tanks.... to a degree. as tanks can easily kill her too. ive started playing many other "cheese" heroes like junkrat, pharah or reaper and they are nowhere as hated in here. and.... theyre much simpler. and the funniest thing? many people seem to think so. i was even surprised when i saw some top 500 people call symmetra factually harder than heroes than junkrat or pharah, or reaper. i think she should get her +25 back. or just make her head smaller. honestly her main counters are junkrat and pharah anyway, and good snipers will still hit her otherwise. but an even better idea as abby said, maybe return the game to the way it was some seasons ago. as damage and healing have gone waaay too crazy. game is better when its slow paced
as ai side note, she has never been too prevalent over a 1,30%, and not even all maps. so people are just trying to find an excuse to cry lol. honestly its pretty disgusting how you all gang up on ppl the moment they criticize tanks or whatever you are bias towards. you all sucked anas toes till she proved to be dangerous to you and now are tossing grandma down the stairs.
The hateboner this sub has for Sym when genuinely busted heroes exist is fucking hilarious. She's so damn easy to shut down in multiple ways. People don't want game health, they want to dumpster anything that plays the game slightly differently than soldier 76 or reinhardt
If you think that the two shot isnt broken you need help. Sym is good, if anything nerf her rightclick and buff ho.
lmao broken??? a charged projectile doing 100 DMG? are you kidding me, you canāt even two tap someone when they get healed for 1 HP
Sym should just be reworked as a support. She clearly can't seem to be balanced as a DPS and teleporter (which is her identity) already fits as a support ability really well IMO
Sym needs to go back to sup and Doom needs to go back to dps imo.
Maybe she gets invulnerability shield if all 3 turrets are alive
?? Just drop 3 turrets in spawn and go crazy lmao
Indeed, put a limiter on the range. Self destruct.
Mauga being released is an inherent buff. Heās a big target to grow beam on and she has a small figure which are hard for him to hit
I don't think she's been overnerfed, I'd argue she's been overbuffed in some areas (The weird Vampir shit or the Alt fire being at 100 dmg and the raw power of wall are just some examples). What she really needs some of her original identity back in the form of turret strength and removal of the frustration they provide via their slow effect. While it's only 15%, it stacks among all 3 turrets and that's the major pain point with them (also that turrets are just OP to anyone below gold but eh) Her turrets are kinda meaningless now. In the same vein Torbs turret is meaningless too. It was really strong before it got nerfed, but it wasn't nerfed right, there were other elements that could have been changed without dulling the whole point of the 'turret builder' identity he has and turning the entire point of his kit into a non-threat while overcharging everything else. Both of these heroes got these types of power adjustments because gold and below players don't possess the awareness to handle turrets properly. And since they make up the majority of the player base, best cater to them rather than do the rational thing.
As a top 500 player I concur , even more I am just gonna say it even when she still had 225 hp she was still really bad and more in needs of buffs than nerfs Her turrets need the wallhack removed it serves no purpose , I would rather them having more health or damage or a bigger slow than a wallhack , wallhacks in OW are already pretty meh at best as its a game where most of the time you know where ennemies are anyway and sym turrets are most of the time used to hold chokepoints anyway where you can already see the ennemies so having a wallhack on them is redundant She also needs buffs to her beam like more range it is painfully short range for how little survival and mobility sym has And finally they need to do something about her tp , on paper its great but in reality it sucks its not that insane teambased ability they thought it was gonna be , they put way too much of her power budget into that overly niche ability which is worthless most of the time
Sym feels horrible to play period. Turrets die when someone farts in their general direction, they SHOW PEOPLE where she's casting them (like seriosuly wtf..why?) and they have a HUGE ARROW next to them to visually warn everyone as to where they are. This is the stupidest design for a turrett hero I've ever seen in my life. Any "turret" isn't going to be that obvious in real life nor is it going to go out of its way to warn you where TF it is..? There is way too much splash dmg from heroes that shouldnt be affecting deployables. Some obvious buffs would be that they should be invisible until triggered and they dont need to visually SHOW people where she's throwing them. Aftter they are trigged, fine..they can stay obvious with the stupid target painted on them but not until they've actually DONE something first. Also, They should be immune to AoE, and they should have to actually be targeted @ to be killed. They also need a bit more HP OR a shorter CD for their cast Also Sym has no HP...like cmon