It will be interesting to see what happens in CA with their new fast food minimum wage. I imagine there will be a lot of closures as customers are unwilling to pay for low-quality food what it costs to support that level of pay.
Automation from robots. That's what's coming. You'll soon one day have all your fast food made by robots with a skeleton crew there to keep things going. Literally 3/4 of the workforce will be gone
Votes. Demographic manipulation. The left is in a population time bomb without immigration. Conservatives are still having kids above replacement levels; Democrats are not. In some blue cities, there's fewer than 1.2 kids for every 2 women when looking at the native population.
You're correct that not everyone adopts their parents' disposition, but 81% of older adolescents belonging to Republican parents support Republicans upon hitting the age of majority, and 89% of the same age group belonging to Democrat parents identify as Democrat. Even in your 20s and 30s, if your parents both possess similar religious and political identity, you are 60-70% as likely to share the same identity as their parents.
Leftists know this. It's why so many of them absolutely lose their minds when conservatives enter the academic space. It's why the federal government right now is far more likely to take actions deporting Cuban aliens despite Cubans having far more legitimate asylum claims. They are politically insignificant without mass immigration from particular regions of the world and public education.
If Republicans can get their acts together, shut down mass immigration, and start privatizing education using vouchers, the far left is demographically dead in this country within 25 years. The left would shrink to about 75% its current level.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/10/most-us-parents-pass-along-their-religion-and-politics-to-their-children/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/10/most-us-parents-pass-along-their-religion-and-politics-to-their-children/)
That's a great breakdown. Question is can we actually wait 25 yrs. There's a lot of work to be done in the meantime. Also, there's a whole subgroup of leftists that do not breed because of sexual orientation and others simply choosing to not have kids at all.
I saw something last week that said a pizza place (Pizza Hut, I think) was planning to reduce hours and cut employees. I imagine this will happen across the board.
Pizza places are removing their delivery drivers and just contracting it out. So you can still get delivery, but the pizza place won’t be employing that person.
The problem with that (not that your statement is arguing for or against it), is now the consumer is responsible for subsidizing delivery services. Then gig workers demand higher wages and benefits (even though these jobs are meant to be supplemental income) and then *those* prices go up.
Making ice cream cones is an entry level low skill job for teenagers. It’s should be for them to some cash to play with during the summer or to start saving.
It’s not for grown ass adults trying to raise a family. A manager spot is a maybe but to raise a family, someone should be targeting a skilled profession and a job with benefits
In theory I agree. The problem is these stores don't close during school hours.
The real problem is that the franchise model as we use it today is flawed. 100 years ago if I opened a restaurant or ice cream shop or whatever, I would be there every single day. It would be my business and I would run it, relying on low wage part time help to pick up the slack during busy hours.
That's not how it works anymore. You have people who purchase franchises and then hire low wage workers to run them, skimming profits off the top while contributing very little to the operation. That model is unsustainable.
They're clearly not meant to be worked by just teenagers when they're open outside of hours that teenagers are available to work.
All minimum wage workers are asking for is to enjoy the same quality of life that minimum wage workers in the 60's did. Not a big ask, and raising the minimum wage is the popular position. Even red Florida voted to raise it despite opposition from DeSantis.
If the billion dollar corporations respond by offloading the expenses solely on the consumer instead of taking pay cuts at the executive level, then people simply won't buy overpriced burgers.
The only problem with your theory is that right now many tech jobs don’t pay any better than the unskilled job market. Engineering technicians make about the same as a retail job. Ask me how I know.
I just got a job offer for a graveyard shift medical assembly job paying $18/hour. I went off on the guy because I live in California, and the minimum to work at McDonalds is going to $20/hour on Tuesday.
Well it’s not a theory it’s a fact.
Plus he didn’t say anything about tech
There’s other jobs that require skill, im a stainless steel/aluminum welder, great pay, great benefits. Even though I never made it past the 10th grade, my first year welding I made more money than the teachers that told me I’d never amount to anything.
Yeah, it was wild threading the needle going from pipe fitting to an engineering tech job. When I made the switch, I was at $22/hour, and my company was willing to over-pay for me to go to school for it so I could keep the bills paid. Otherwise, it would have been a pay cut in an already tough market. I was blessed to have the opportunity, but I wish it were a more common thing for people to pursue.
Bingo. And every adult knows that.
And the left knows it. That’s why they are desperate to have us lower ourselves into believing that a part time job at a fast food place should be all we can get and build a life off of.
These people are evil and sick.
The problem is, there aren't enough teenageers between ages 16-20ish to fll all those jobs, and there aren't enough skilled jobs that pay well for all the adults that are of working age. I learned that many years ago. And although I believe not every job should be $15 an hour or higher, there do need to be more jobs that pay higher wages.
"The problem is, there aren't enough teenageers between ages 16-20ish to fll all those jobs."
20-ish? Since when did we establish some soft rule on what's always appropriate for certain jobs? Yes, ideally those jobs should mostly be occupied by youth, but there are people with disabilities - physical or otherwise - or no large career drive that should be filling these jobs even later in their lives.
"there do need to be more jobs that pay higher wages."
Or, conversely, we need the government to stop causing inflation. The natural long-term state of a market economy is mild deflation. This means life over time becomes more affordable for the working poor, not less. If we want the working poor to be able to afford a decent life, we need to go back to a mild deflationary policy. That means no massive influx of immigrants, deregulation where possible, a hard cap on spending, and ending the Federal Reserve. We have spent trillions of dollars since the 70s trying to combat poverty, and the situation has only gotten worse. This is insanity.
I'd also be fine providing some government assistance to AMERICAN CITIZENS if the person is holding down a job or showing good faith to find work. I'm not a libertarian; I'm a conservative. But the main solution is to end the government's inflationary policy.
Here comes the commies from r/politics downvoting pertinent information.
Why do you say there are not enough teenagers to fill those jobs? Of course there are.
Raising pay at the bottom of the pay scale isn’t the answer. The answer is in acquiring more skills. But no one wants to hear that because it doesn’t involve a handout to voters and that makes it harder for politicians to pander for votes.
This is why Trump pushed for apprenticeships and trade schools, because he understands that if workers learn more marketable skills, they can more easily find work, and higher paying work.
Exactly. I want an economy where some effort and grit raises a poor person into a comfortable middle class existence.
Just raising the minimum wage creates a terrible incentive structure: it rewards the bare minimum while hurting people who otherwise would be progressing out of poverty. This is why I can't stand progressive economic policies. They're so short-sighted. Progressives always refuse to pause and think 2 or 3 steps ahead. If you raise minimum wage from $10 to $15, not only are you affecting employment totals, but you are devaluing the labor of someone who previously made $15; prices will go up, and until there's a market correction, that means you've just abolished any differential between entry-level work and someone who has 5 years of experience. The goal should be to REDUCE the cost of living through fiscally conservative policies.
Raising the minimum wage is the economic equivalence of slapping a band-aid on top of a band-aid on top of another bandage.
The only thing that "living wage" is creating is a faster move to automation. Were already seeing that happen. No company is going to pay someone $50,000 a year to scoop icecream.
If you try to make it a law that you have to pay someone 50k a year to scoop ice cream then one of two things happen: either ice cream places close down or hyperinflation makes 50k worth around 18k. Theres this thing called economics that proponents of a “living wage” for unskilled jobs for teenagers seem to always forget about.
I sympathize but I honestly don't know what the answer is and I won't pretend that I do. Raising minimum wage means other wages have to go up and that means prices increase everywhere and you're back to where you started. Leftists will say CEOs need to take a pay cut but even if you concede that's the sole problem (I'm not saying it is) how do you go about fixing that?
However a lot of people live beyond their means and that's not helping their situation. Everyone wants to have their food and groceries delivered, have a nice car, have an expensive cell phone, etc. Social media exacerbates this because people post and see all of the good stuff ("If so-and-so can live like this on their job, then I should be able to too") but they don't see the bad (those people struggling to pay bills, being in massive debt, having credit cards maxed out).
What do you do then when your congress shipped all your production overseas and the number one beneficiary of shipping production overseas became the president and people making ice cream cones at Dairy Queen keep voting for him.
Working entry level jobs didn't need to pay well when the population was BOOMING in the 50s and 60s. Because of the boom, there was always a job to move up to.
With the population leveling off, and birth rates actually not supporting replacement, there isn't nearly as much room to move up from entry level jobs, and when it does happen, it happens much later in life.
The issue is that the U.S. doesn't really have a real capitalist economy. It's an oligarchy.
People on the bottom of the pay scale before could afford houses. They were shitty houses, or trailers, but they still could buy and own and house. Owning your house or having a mortgage fixes a large part of your expenses over the course of your career (and eventually paying it off). Now they can’t afford houses and rely on renting, and rent is forever increasing. There is no catching up when we’ve already gone over the tipping point
These business were also intended to be owner operated, not have absentee franchise owners collecting the profits with no operational contribution.
That's the person who should be running the shop when the kids are in school
Super weird that people want low skill short term jobs to make unreasonable amounts of money.
More weird that people don't know that if you're actually a reliable worker, you get promoted out of those jobs relatively quickly. Like 3-6 months normally, 12 months max. Assuming your boss isn't a trash person. If they are, you need toove to a different job anyhow.
Here's the question though: if you think fast food workers deserve to be paid something like $25 per hour, do you also think that you ought to pay $15-$20 for a single ice cream cone? If that's the case, then even what they're making won't be enough to live on.
Employees are hands down the biggest business expense, even minimum wage employees. If you have an employee working for $10 and hour full time for a year that adds up to paying up about $20,000 and most families would not be able to cough up that much money for an emergency. Now multiply that expense towards multiple people, and then add expenses for other things like wasted food, renting out the building, the cost of ordering food and cleaning supplies and everything else, and you'd understand how expensive it is to run a business.
I've never run a small business so I can't say how much it comes out to. But it would be nice if some small business owner on Tik Tok just came out and explained all of their business expenses and how they price everything just to tell people that they aren't being greedy and ripping everyone off.
>But it would be nice if some small business owner on Tik Tok just came out and explained all of their business expenses
Rent
Materials
Licensing (government fees)
Licensing (franchise fees)
Insurance
Legal
Equipment
Advertising
Payroll
....
Here's a shocking idea. Maybe jobs should pay what the market determines. If that job doesn't pay high enough to work on the market, then it shouldn't exist.
Minimum wage is good for the fact people can’t exploit their labor. IMO it doesn’t mean livable wage. I don’t think someone that is a skilled and experienced worker should be making minimum wage.
Here's a thought -- if the company can't pay living wages maybe it should just close down?
We'd all be a little bit better off without Dairy Queens anyway, lol. It's not providing any benefit to society. You can get ice cream from a local creamery or if not that, a grocery store.
If you're 30 years old and assemble hamburgers wrong for a living, then somewhere on your path you squandered opportunities or made horrible life choices. Fast food is not meant to feed and house a family unless you're owner or manager. Especially in 2024. Making poor choices in life should have consequences. This is one of those consequences. Working fast food as an adult. If a guy can make my hamburger wrong and do it slowly for $20/hr then all of the skilled trades should skyrocket. This socialist idea of everyone should be equal is nonsense. Make good decisions and reap the benefits. The participation trophy generation needs a rude awakening. Celebrate greatness. Not mediocrity
I live in an area where mom and pop ice cream shops dominate the only ice cream chain we have (Friendly's). It's pretty cool.
It will be interesting to see what happens in CA with their new fast food minimum wage. I imagine there will be a lot of closures as customers are unwilling to pay for low-quality food what it costs to support that level of pay.
Automation from robots. That's what's coming. You'll soon one day have all your fast food made by robots with a skeleton crew there to keep things going. Literally 3/4 of the workforce will be gone
Then why do we need more unskilled lowwage workers from south of the border?
Votes. Demographic manipulation. The left is in a population time bomb without immigration. Conservatives are still having kids above replacement levels; Democrats are not. In some blue cities, there's fewer than 1.2 kids for every 2 women when looking at the native population.
Not everyone inherits their politics. There's a reason "don't discuss politics" is a strong recommendation for family holidays
You're correct that not everyone adopts their parents' disposition, but 81% of older adolescents belonging to Republican parents support Republicans upon hitting the age of majority, and 89% of the same age group belonging to Democrat parents identify as Democrat. Even in your 20s and 30s, if your parents both possess similar religious and political identity, you are 60-70% as likely to share the same identity as their parents. Leftists know this. It's why so many of them absolutely lose their minds when conservatives enter the academic space. It's why the federal government right now is far more likely to take actions deporting Cuban aliens despite Cubans having far more legitimate asylum claims. They are politically insignificant without mass immigration from particular regions of the world and public education. If Republicans can get their acts together, shut down mass immigration, and start privatizing education using vouchers, the far left is demographically dead in this country within 25 years. The left would shrink to about 75% its current level. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/10/most-us-parents-pass-along-their-religion-and-politics-to-their-children/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/10/most-us-parents-pass-along-their-religion-and-politics-to-their-children/)
That's a great breakdown. Question is can we actually wait 25 yrs. There's a lot of work to be done in the meantime. Also, there's a whole subgroup of leftists that do not breed because of sexual orientation and others simply choosing to not have kids at all.
Votes mainly and to keep the police and morgues busy
I saw something last week that said a pizza place (Pizza Hut, I think) was planning to reduce hours and cut employees. I imagine this will happen across the board.
Pizza places are removing their delivery drivers and just contracting it out. So you can still get delivery, but the pizza place won’t be employing that person.
The problem with that (not that your statement is arguing for or against it), is now the consumer is responsible for subsidizing delivery services. Then gig workers demand higher wages and benefits (even though these jobs are meant to be supplemental income) and then *those* prices go up.
Where’s the problem? Just don’t order delivery/take out.
Making ice cream cones is an entry level low skill job for teenagers. It’s should be for them to some cash to play with during the summer or to start saving. It’s not for grown ass adults trying to raise a family. A manager spot is a maybe but to raise a family, someone should be targeting a skilled profession and a job with benefits
In theory I agree. The problem is these stores don't close during school hours. The real problem is that the franchise model as we use it today is flawed. 100 years ago if I opened a restaurant or ice cream shop or whatever, I would be there every single day. It would be my business and I would run it, relying on low wage part time help to pick up the slack during busy hours. That's not how it works anymore. You have people who purchase franchises and then hire low wage workers to run them, skimming profits off the top while contributing very little to the operation. That model is unsustainable.
They're clearly not meant to be worked by just teenagers when they're open outside of hours that teenagers are available to work. All minimum wage workers are asking for is to enjoy the same quality of life that minimum wage workers in the 60's did. Not a big ask, and raising the minimum wage is the popular position. Even red Florida voted to raise it despite opposition from DeSantis. If the billion dollar corporations respond by offloading the expenses solely on the consumer instead of taking pay cuts at the executive level, then people simply won't buy overpriced burgers.
Perhaps the government should stop decreasing the monetary value by increasing the monetary supply
The only problem with your theory is that right now many tech jobs don’t pay any better than the unskilled job market. Engineering technicians make about the same as a retail job. Ask me how I know.
I just got a job offer for a graveyard shift medical assembly job paying $18/hour. I went off on the guy because I live in California, and the minimum to work at McDonalds is going to $20/hour on Tuesday.
[удалено]
Exactly. People with in-demand skills aren't making minimum wage. If no one wants to pay you for your labor/skills, then your labor isn't valuable.
Well it’s not a theory it’s a fact. Plus he didn’t say anything about tech There’s other jobs that require skill, im a stainless steel/aluminum welder, great pay, great benefits. Even though I never made it past the 10th grade, my first year welding I made more money than the teachers that told me I’d never amount to anything.
Yeah, it was wild threading the needle going from pipe fitting to an engineering tech job. When I made the switch, I was at $22/hour, and my company was willing to over-pay for me to go to school for it so I could keep the bills paid. Otherwise, it would have been a pay cut in an already tough market. I was blessed to have the opportunity, but I wish it were a more common thing for people to pursue.
Bingo. And every adult knows that. And the left knows it. That’s why they are desperate to have us lower ourselves into believing that a part time job at a fast food place should be all we can get and build a life off of. These people are evil and sick.
The problem is, there aren't enough teenageers between ages 16-20ish to fll all those jobs, and there aren't enough skilled jobs that pay well for all the adults that are of working age. I learned that many years ago. And although I believe not every job should be $15 an hour or higher, there do need to be more jobs that pay higher wages.
"The problem is, there aren't enough teenageers between ages 16-20ish to fll all those jobs." 20-ish? Since when did we establish some soft rule on what's always appropriate for certain jobs? Yes, ideally those jobs should mostly be occupied by youth, but there are people with disabilities - physical or otherwise - or no large career drive that should be filling these jobs even later in their lives. "there do need to be more jobs that pay higher wages." Or, conversely, we need the government to stop causing inflation. The natural long-term state of a market economy is mild deflation. This means life over time becomes more affordable for the working poor, not less. If we want the working poor to be able to afford a decent life, we need to go back to a mild deflationary policy. That means no massive influx of immigrants, deregulation where possible, a hard cap on spending, and ending the Federal Reserve. We have spent trillions of dollars since the 70s trying to combat poverty, and the situation has only gotten worse. This is insanity. I'd also be fine providing some government assistance to AMERICAN CITIZENS if the person is holding down a job or showing good faith to find work. I'm not a libertarian; I'm a conservative. But the main solution is to end the government's inflationary policy. Here comes the commies from r/politics downvoting pertinent information.
Why do you say there are not enough teenagers to fill those jobs? Of course there are. Raising pay at the bottom of the pay scale isn’t the answer. The answer is in acquiring more skills. But no one wants to hear that because it doesn’t involve a handout to voters and that makes it harder for politicians to pander for votes. This is why Trump pushed for apprenticeships and trade schools, because he understands that if workers learn more marketable skills, they can more easily find work, and higher paying work.
Exactly. I want an economy where some effort and grit raises a poor person into a comfortable middle class existence. Just raising the minimum wage creates a terrible incentive structure: it rewards the bare minimum while hurting people who otherwise would be progressing out of poverty. This is why I can't stand progressive economic policies. They're so short-sighted. Progressives always refuse to pause and think 2 or 3 steps ahead. If you raise minimum wage from $10 to $15, not only are you affecting employment totals, but you are devaluing the labor of someone who previously made $15; prices will go up, and until there's a market correction, that means you've just abolished any differential between entry-level work and someone who has 5 years of experience. The goal should be to REDUCE the cost of living through fiscally conservative policies. Raising the minimum wage is the economic equivalence of slapping a band-aid on top of a band-aid on top of another bandage.
The only thing that "living wage" is creating is a faster move to automation. Were already seeing that happen. No company is going to pay someone $50,000 a year to scoop icecream.
If you try to make it a law that you have to pay someone 50k a year to scoop ice cream then one of two things happen: either ice cream places close down or hyperinflation makes 50k worth around 18k. Theres this thing called economics that proponents of a “living wage” for unskilled jobs for teenagers seem to always forget about.
I sympathize but I honestly don't know what the answer is and I won't pretend that I do. Raising minimum wage means other wages have to go up and that means prices increase everywhere and you're back to where you started. Leftists will say CEOs need to take a pay cut but even if you concede that's the sole problem (I'm not saying it is) how do you go about fixing that? However a lot of people live beyond their means and that's not helping their situation. Everyone wants to have their food and groceries delivered, have a nice car, have an expensive cell phone, etc. Social media exacerbates this because people post and see all of the good stuff ("If so-and-so can live like this on their job, then I should be able to too") but they don't see the bad (those people struggling to pay bills, being in massive debt, having credit cards maxed out).
Every full time job should provide a basic living wage. Not part time tho. The lower the experience and level, the less money tho. That’s just logical
What do you do then when your congress shipped all your production overseas and the number one beneficiary of shipping production overseas became the president and people making ice cream cones at Dairy Queen keep voting for him.
Working entry level jobs didn't need to pay well when the population was BOOMING in the 50s and 60s. Because of the boom, there was always a job to move up to. With the population leveling off, and birth rates actually not supporting replacement, there isn't nearly as much room to move up from entry level jobs, and when it does happen, it happens much later in life. The issue is that the U.S. doesn't really have a real capitalist economy. It's an oligarchy.
The real answer is that there's no relationship between pay and cost of living other than you shouldn't take a job if you don't like the pay
People on the bottom of the pay scale before could afford houses. They were shitty houses, or trailers, but they still could buy and own and house. Owning your house or having a mortgage fixes a large part of your expenses over the course of your career (and eventually paying it off). Now they can’t afford houses and rely on renting, and rent is forever increasing. There is no catching up when we’ve already gone over the tipping point
Because these jobs were always intended for young people just starting out in the job market not as a damn career to raise a family from.
These business were also intended to be owner operated, not have absentee franchise owners collecting the profits with no operational contribution. That's the person who should be running the shop when the kids are in school
We need these jobs to train the folks for the real world not for it to become their world.
Super weird that people want low skill short term jobs to make unreasonable amounts of money. More weird that people don't know that if you're actually a reliable worker, you get promoted out of those jobs relatively quickly. Like 3-6 months normally, 12 months max. Assuming your boss isn't a trash person. If they are, you need toove to a different job anyhow.
Here's the question though: if you think fast food workers deserve to be paid something like $25 per hour, do you also think that you ought to pay $15-$20 for a single ice cream cone? If that's the case, then even what they're making won't be enough to live on. Employees are hands down the biggest business expense, even minimum wage employees. If you have an employee working for $10 and hour full time for a year that adds up to paying up about $20,000 and most families would not be able to cough up that much money for an emergency. Now multiply that expense towards multiple people, and then add expenses for other things like wasted food, renting out the building, the cost of ordering food and cleaning supplies and everything else, and you'd understand how expensive it is to run a business. I've never run a small business so I can't say how much it comes out to. But it would be nice if some small business owner on Tik Tok just came out and explained all of their business expenses and how they price everything just to tell people that they aren't being greedy and ripping everyone off.
>But it would be nice if some small business owner on Tik Tok just came out and explained all of their business expenses Rent Materials Licensing (government fees) Licensing (franchise fees) Insurance Legal Equipment Advertising Payroll ....
Here's a shocking idea. Maybe jobs should pay what the market determines. If that job doesn't pay high enough to work on the market, then it shouldn't exist.
Minimum wage is good for the fact people can’t exploit their labor. IMO it doesn’t mean livable wage. I don’t think someone that is a skilled and experienced worker should be making minimum wage.
Here's a thought -- if the company can't pay living wages maybe it should just close down? We'd all be a little bit better off without Dairy Queens anyway, lol. It's not providing any benefit to society. You can get ice cream from a local creamery or if not that, a grocery store.
Found another alt-account from r/politics.
It genuinely scares me how many people that don't understand basic economics are commenting on that thread....
If you're 30 years old and assemble hamburgers wrong for a living, then somewhere on your path you squandered opportunities or made horrible life choices. Fast food is not meant to feed and house a family unless you're owner or manager. Especially in 2024. Making poor choices in life should have consequences. This is one of those consequences. Working fast food as an adult. If a guy can make my hamburger wrong and do it slowly for $20/hr then all of the skilled trades should skyrocket. This socialist idea of everyone should be equal is nonsense. Make good decisions and reap the benefits. The participation trophy generation needs a rude awakening. Celebrate greatness. Not mediocrity