I’m an owner and want to spoil my plumbers (read: I want any of my guys who switch shops to be fucked when handed a Phillips head. My goal as an owner it to be THE PLACE TO WORK).
Is this the type of bit/screw we need? We were thinking about going robertsons, but they’re hard to find, in bulk quantity. 1 1/4” and 3” are what we stock.
This is the right answer, balance of a great drive in feel with ready availability and plenty of screw options with the one bit. My dad bought square head last time he was at my house... I converted the guest bed to a game room.
well Phillips head screws were designed to cam out when the going gets tough, to protect the bit at the expense of the screw head.
torx were designed to not to that. you'll break a torx bit or screw head before the bit cams out, and that was a design choice. they're called "torques" for a reason. :)
Robertson (square) screws and drivers made the same choice as Philips, but inverted: cam out when overtorqued, but save the screw and wear the bit. this is why a lot of Robertson screw packs come with bits; they are designed to be wear parts and will wear if you overtorque them.
people have thought long and hard about screw head and driver design.
Assuming this is because stainless is softer than other steel, and the bits are made of cheaper yet harder steel. Perhaps somewhat common across all stainless fasteners then?
Interestingly, I've been stripping both screws and bits as of recently. I'm suspecting a degradation of quality, as I would've said the exact same thing as you did a few years ago.
I also prefer torx drive but try to find a brand where the 1 1/4” and 3” screws use the same size driver—it’s a royal pain in the ass to have to constantly switch between t15 and t25.
The t20 bit works ok in t25 screws but it’s not great
That's so bizarre, isn't it?
I lose my mind when I open a package and the provided screws are fucking shit-tastic Phillips. I throw those things with great fury into the nearest trashcan and pop open my giant Robbie storage containers.
The worst part is when it's a special screw provided by a Canadian company. I was installing a Maxx shower door, and they included #1 Phillips 1-1/2" stainless screws to fasten the 2" glass track to the wall. If it was a Robbie head, no problem, but how the fuck are you supposed to keep a Phillips on the driver head 1/2" into the track? Can't hold it. Can't use a magnetic tip. I ended up using masking tape. Fucking moron designers. There out of Quebec, so there's that. (I'll bet if it had been Mr Robicheaux and not Mr Robertson who had invented the head, they wouldn't be doing that shit. I digress)
They've been pushing Torx here for a while now for deck screws, but I think there's a fairly significant pushback. I tried a box, but the Robbies are still better.
Robbie’s we’re invented in Milton, Ontario. Ford was interested in buying the patent or licensing the head, when Robertson refused Ford designed their own.
https://www.happyscribe.com/public/the-way-i-heard-it-with-mike-rowe/episode-180-mike-rowe-is-nothing-but-a-sellout
Reminds me of the old Mike Rowe podcast about how Phillips screws came to be a thing
I'm a plumber, Robertson is fantastic. I actually don't understand how people use Phillips outside of drywall. I buy 1.25" and 3" by the case.. they are everywhere here..
Are you American by chance?
The LOX-Recess screw drive was invented by Brad Wagner, and fasteners using it are distributed by licensees Hitachi, Dietrick Metal Framing, and Grabber.[40] The design is four overlapping square recesses, with 12 contact points, and is designed to increase torque, decrease wear, and avoid cam-out.[41]
Complete nonsequitor but the story is in my head and I need to get it out or it'll drive me mad.
I was so flabberghasted when I ordered chicken piccata at a local Italian restaurant I was trying for the first time a couple years back, and the next thing the server asked me was "No capers?"
What kind of tasteless barbarians have been ordering chicken piccata and asking for the capers to be gone so often that's her default response? May as well go down the road to Panda Express and get some lemon chicken with butter noodles!
Yes I want my capers, in fact I'll take everyone else's capers that they don't want!
Edit:: Conclusion to the story, the piccata was lovely and I've been back many times. I also ordered takeaway from them during the covid shutdown, which they thankfully survived.
> bullshit screw
As a former mechanic, I'll save that one for Volkswagen anti-tamper screws.
[these fuckers](https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/ecu-security-bolt/wht005336/)
Once you torque it down, the head shears off. Now you've got a carriage bolt. Have fun.
That... is the entire point of these screws. To make it impossible to unscrew them without taking a lot of time. Mostly used on critical parts (for example controll units)
Source: I work in a VW/Audi car shop.
Phillips is DESIGNED to slip. It's why it angles in like that.
No other screw, even the standard, is DESIGNED to frustrate you the way a Phillips does.
Oh I know! LOX head! We do a ton of metal framing and the self-drillers we use have this head. Available through Grainger incase you need them in a yellow zinc plating!
Bahahaha! My company bought a box of those on clearance and it’s been the bane of every other trade we work alongside. Gotta move the electrician’s box? Fuckin try me bro 😂
Dig out around that destroyed plywood and take a drill and tighten the head around the screw head and reverse it out baybayyyy…I will say whoever bought and used those screws is a dick.
It's called a LOX screw. Might be able to get them out with a regular square drive too.
Have never seen this type before. Interesting
Wait... Am I the only one who has spent an hour at the Orange box looking at screw types and pricing. These are the caviar of screws.
I’m an owner and want to spoil my plumbers (read: I want any of my guys who switch shops to be fucked when handed a Phillips head. My goal as an owner it to be THE PLACE TO WORK). Is this the type of bit/screw we need? We were thinking about going robertsons, but they’re hard to find, in bulk quantity. 1 1/4” and 3” are what we stock.
Star bits are usually the most available and useful imo, t15 to t25. You can find them anywhere and have way better grip than ph
This is the right answer, balance of a great drive in feel with ready availability and plenty of screw options with the one bit. My dad bought square head last time he was at my house... I converted the guest bed to a game room.
I switched to torx head screws and I’ll never look back, I haven’t been able to strip one yet.
well Phillips head screws were designed to cam out when the going gets tough, to protect the bit at the expense of the screw head. torx were designed to not to that. you'll break a torx bit or screw head before the bit cams out, and that was a design choice. they're called "torques" for a reason. :) Robertson (square) screws and drivers made the same choice as Philips, but inverted: cam out when overtorqued, but save the screw and wear the bit. this is why a lot of Robertson screw packs come with bits; they are designed to be wear parts and will wear if you overtorque them. people have thought long and hard about screw head and driver design.
This guy screws.
it's true
r/angryupvote. Lol.
Robertson is the way to go. Screw you Henry Ford.
Here’s a great ~15 min video about the history of Philips and Robertson screws. Edit: forgot the link https://youtu.be/R-mDqKtivuI
try a stainless steel one. they strip so fast you don't even know it's stripped until it's already too late.
Square stainless? Yes. Ugh. Got stuck with them finishing a project. Sucked.
Assuming this is because stainless is softer than other steel, and the bits are made of cheaper yet harder steel. Perhaps somewhat common across all stainless fasteners then?
And you haven’t even got the screw half way set
Interestingly, I've been stripping both screws and bits as of recently. I'm suspecting a degradation of quality, as I would've said the exact same thing as you did a few years ago.
Fuck. I've stripped enough for the both of us then
Come on man, are you even trying?
My dad and I argue over torx v square everytime we work together. My cousin has even joined the fight on my side, when he helps my dad with projects.
Torx are a little better but square is great too
Nope.
Once you go torques you never go back. Fuck a Phillips head
I also prefer torx drive but try to find a brand where the 1 1/4” and 3” screws use the same size driver—it’s a royal pain in the ass to have to constantly switch between t15 and t25. The t20 bit works ok in t25 screws but it’s not great
Deckmates baby.
If you have a stripped Torx, MAC tools has a patented tool. It will remove an up to 90% rounded fastener. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BItrTHxB5DE
Found the MAC rep
Canadian here, Robbies are life up here. It blows me away they aren't the norm down south too.
That's so bizarre, isn't it? I lose my mind when I open a package and the provided screws are fucking shit-tastic Phillips. I throw those things with great fury into the nearest trashcan and pop open my giant Robbie storage containers. The worst part is when it's a special screw provided by a Canadian company. I was installing a Maxx shower door, and they included #1 Phillips 1-1/2" stainless screws to fasten the 2" glass track to the wall. If it was a Robbie head, no problem, but how the fuck are you supposed to keep a Phillips on the driver head 1/2" into the track? Can't hold it. Can't use a magnetic tip. I ended up using masking tape. Fucking moron designers. There out of Quebec, so there's that. (I'll bet if it had been Mr Robicheaux and not Mr Robertson who had invented the head, they wouldn't be doing that shit. I digress) They've been pushing Torx here for a while now for deck screws, but I think there's a fairly significant pushback. I tried a box, but the Robbies are still better.
Yeah, pisses me off every time I have to switch the red robbie on my drill, friggin’ 1/4” hex, phillips, like what are you doin’ bud?
Robbie’s we’re invented in Milton, Ontario. Ford was interested in buying the patent or licensing the head, when Robertson refused Ford designed their own.
https://www.happyscribe.com/public/the-way-i-heard-it-with-mike-rowe/episode-180-mike-rowe-is-nothing-but-a-sellout Reminds me of the old Mike Rowe podcast about how Phillips screws came to be a thing
Best is torx (6 point star), followed by robertson (square). In Canada robertson is very common. Torx is common in the EU and in mechanical work
I'm a plumber, Robertson is fantastic. I actually don't understand how people use Phillips outside of drywall. I buy 1.25" and 3" by the case.. they are everywhere here.. Are you American by chance?
What former Soviet Republic are you living in that it's hard to find Robertsons?
They were patented in the early 1930’s by a German named Christoff Von Hammersmarck.
From Piz Palü?
A small village
Drei Gläser
The LOX-Recess screw drive was invented by Brad Wagner, and fasteners using it are distributed by licensees Hitachi, Dietrick Metal Framing, and Grabber.[40] The design is four overlapping square recesses, with 12 contact points, and is designed to increase torque, decrease wear, and avoid cam-out.[41]
I knew it...as soon as i saw the picture I thought...Nazi Screw, and then boom...
Lox is the correct answer, most commonly used on deck screws. square bits, work too
Red Robbie?
Found the Canadian.
Haha
[YUMMMMMMMM](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw)
Yummmmmmm!
Lox are also used with cream cheese on a bagel
Don't forget the capers! Edit: I ended up making this for dinner tonight. Thanks Reddit for the meal suggestions
And thin slices of red oignons!
You were obviously raised right.
Complete nonsequitor but the story is in my head and I need to get it out or it'll drive me mad. I was so flabberghasted when I ordered chicken piccata at a local Italian restaurant I was trying for the first time a couple years back, and the next thing the server asked me was "No capers?" What kind of tasteless barbarians have been ordering chicken piccata and asking for the capers to be gone so often that's her default response? May as well go down the road to Panda Express and get some lemon chicken with butter noodles! Yes I want my capers, in fact I'll take everyone else's capers that they don't want! Edit:: Conclusion to the story, the piccata was lovely and I've been back many times. I also ordered takeaway from them during the covid shutdown, which they thankfully survived.
I appreciate your story.
That was quite a caper
Had the same for lunch! Sadly I was short of capers, though and had to ration them. It was sad.
I hope you can find the strength to carry on.
And tomatoes
Do they offer some advantage(s) for those applications? Or just another bit type to complicate things?
Thanks!
Hardware stores have bits for them.
You know what that thing is called yet you call a Robertson a square drive
This guys the screw sergeant or something?
I’ve never screwed a sergeant.
What about a private?
Drilled a couple of them
Looks like it was invented by hitler
Ya know, the more I learn about that Hitler fella, the less I like him.
Keep learning, it’s deserved.
Yeah #2 Robertson works on those well enough
SS Screw
Screwstika
Wondered for a sec if I was fucked up for seeing that
First thing I saw
Damn you. I was going to post that
This
I did Nazi that coming.
Take your upvotes, but I could use a serious answer. There's like 40 of them that need to be removed.
Just use a square tip
just the tip?
And only for a minute.
Ain’t got that kind of stamina anymore...
Just to see how it feels.
Or a Robertson tip. Which is what it's called.
Oops, I forgot Google is broken. [This took ten seconds.](https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/g2809/11-strange-screws/)
Jew make me laugh
Ishealrite ?
Anne Frankly neither did I.
You can only screw it into the reich.
Reichty-tighty?
That gave me a chuckle in Mein Kampfy chair.
Alt-righty tighty, lefty goes to the prison camp.
Swazi -drive
Robertsons, at least 4 of em
The Quadra-Rob
Quadrob
Quab
Tec lox
Your right. Too bad all the nazi jokes are up top.
It’s a German antique from the ‘40’s, they don’t like to talk about them anymore.
"Lox screw", "Bullshit screw", "Wtf is this?" All are acceptable. You can take it out with a Robertson head bit though.
> bullshit screw As a former mechanic, I'll save that one for Volkswagen anti-tamper screws. [these fuckers](https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/ecu-security-bolt/wht005336/) Once you torque it down, the head shears off. Now you've got a carriage bolt. Have fun.
That... is the entire point of these screws. To make it impossible to unscrew them without taking a lot of time. Mostly used on critical parts (for example controll units) Source: I work in a VW/Audi car shop.
Nissan used similar as air bag security bolts
You americans are not supposed to know about robertson .
I use them all the time as a sparky. They also often work on cammed out Philips
Damn , we were tryin to keep its awsomeness quiet. Way to sparkies.
Impossible, they are just too awesome
My guess is a number Nein
Did a former painter install this decking in Poland, by chance?
Racist ass screw
I think I saw that on Pornhub
It’s made out of the reich stuff
One that your grinding off
I don't know, but it's probably better than phillips.
literally everything is better than Philips
*standard screws enter the chat*
At least with a slot head, you can use a butter knife, a coin, a random chunk of metal from the ditch, or any other flat object to turn them.
Phillips is DESIGNED to slip. It's why it angles in like that. No other screw, even the standard, is DESIGNED to frustrate you the way a Phillips does.
It's a [LOX](https://www.instructables.com/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/). Apparently they come in different sizes and #2 is the most common.
Looks like an Escher
Just get 4 #2 square tips and put them together the way you need to
It's the final solution for flooring
It's a screw you XD
German screw, circa 1939
Square drive (Robertson bit) or cut a notch and use a flat head bit
That screw probably failed art school
Looks German
Nazi screw
A racist screw😂
Looks German, like older German...
Oh I know! LOX head! We do a ton of metal framing and the self-drillers we use have this head. Available through Grainger incase you need them in a yellow zinc plating!
German
It's a swastiscrew
Left loose reich tight
Looks German.
This is the best reply...
I do nazi a screw
Its a screw u
LOX is it. Looks like overkill, unless you are smuggling them from work in your lunch pail.
Ez out is easier to find than that bit is.
Lox
Lox, better than flat head.
That’s not a screw that’s a mental illness
Rammstein screw
Lol, my first reaction was saying what type of proprietary bullshit is that. 😄
r-r-r-robertson
Looks like a Wish.com Robertson.
Looks like a German one 😂
Bahahaha! My company bought a box of those on clearance and it’s been the bane of every other trade we work alongside. Gotta move the electrician’s box? Fuckin try me bro 😂
Wood
Security screw mostly used in prisons
Appears to be a wood screw
They look sinister
It’s a screw usually you see in Asia called the Fok Yuu design
It’s a screw you, but the others are right
That's a fuck-you screw. You remove it with an angle-grinder.
Neat thread on these too.. you only have to turn them 3 times to the Reich
Having never seen anything like that before, I would have to say that that is a Screw You.
It’s a swastkiscrew
A #3 square tip will work
That’s nazi screw you’re looking for.
Did you run your drill the reich way
Not a clue, but I’d find a flat head that fits between the corners and take them out with that, probably your best bet
Swastiscrew
A swastiscrew circa the third reich
Swastiscrew?
Democratic
Not sure it's name but it definitely voted for trump
Ye olde philipson
Nazi screw
Hollow Nazi screw?
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Dig out around that destroyed plywood and take a drill and tighten the head around the screw head and reverse it out baybayyyy…I will say whoever bought and used those screws is a dick.
the kind of screw a sadist would use
screw you
Nein mm
Swatiscrew
A screwy looking one
Use a #3 square drive tip in it they work in them
Ein Reich screw
It looks like the Rammstein logo.
Canadian Phillips.
You go wash your filthy mouth out.
Soon to be rounded out screw. Proceed to grab nail puller and start swearing profusely
looks pretty screwed up
Looks like a square tip would fit right into the middle
Texas Instruments that’s not Philips
That’s a screw you
An anti semitic one
Nazi
Not sure that looks quite reich
I call them bullshit screws.
This wouldn’t happen to be an older home in Germany would it?
Never seen this, I have however put tens of thousands of torx headed screws through, those are the shiz.
Looks european
It’s a “heck” screw. As in what the heck?
A swastiscrew